The Philosophy of Edelgard: A Fire Emblem Analysis

Here's the second instalment in the video series on the distinctive philosophies of each of the house leaders. Hopefully you all enjoy!

[@Byrdstar6423-un3me]

My favorite lord in the series so glad to see people really appreciate her character

[@0axis771]

Something about Edelgard being driven by faith has some credence to it. Edelgard shows in some of her gestures where she sometimes makes a prayer stance, and how she remarks that prayers will never go answered reflects how Edelgard is someone that once was religious, but in her time of need, she was abandoned by the goddess. The idea of having just faith in a person is something Edelgard very much struggles with because she was betrayed by faith itself. She can't bring herself to simply believe in others because she was someone that was abandoned by the goddess. I do disagree with the notion that Edelgard doesn't believe in the goddess. With how she talks to Byleth, it is clear that she DOES have faith that the goddess is real, though perhaps considers Sothis more of a powerful entity than a true goddess. While Edelgard has reservations about the religion itself, even without looking at her Manuela support, there are indications that Edelgard doesn't force people to abandon their religion. It's mentioned in Ferdinand and Mercedes's C support if you get it during Part 2 of CF.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Ah fair point I totally forgot about those supports thanks for pointing those out! To be clear I wasn't trying to say that Edelgard doesn't believe in any higher power, but rather views the church as a social institution that exists to distract the common people from the immediate conditions of their material lives in a marxist sense. Subsequently, in my reading of her character, her critique of the church doesn't seek to take faith away from those who have it, but to expose the church's aforementioned control over the population.

[@ericx6969]

@@ordinaryunits4341 where things pretty bad before crest system and church because humans where mongrels upset the nation that got enslaved lmfao or claude nation who are kind of fine it was only because goddess help make their life easier and better and than they betray her

[@ericx6969]

@@ordinaryunits4341 edelgard gives 0 fks people ignore edelgard treats everyone as pawns upset maybe byleth but byleth still being used

[@Alikatnya]

This is such a good breakdown analysis video. Im excited too see where you and your chanel go from here!

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thank you so much! This video took a while to make so I'm glad that it left a good impression!

[@DarkAngel69604]

Hey good to see you back!

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks! I'm glad to be back

[@saltlord4488]

The king is back

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks the support means a lot!

[@0axis771]

Great video, but man, you just gotta love how every time someone on KZbin tries to say anything about Edelgard with nuance, or some that actually express the belief that Edelgard might be right, you have idiots that go around trying to act smart and remove every instance of nuance from her and try to make her sound like Hitler.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

I feel that, in my experience it can be difficult to express nuance to larger audiences that might not approach things from a similar frame of mind.

[@0axis771]

@@ordinaryunits4341 Yeah. Because Fire Emblem never had moral grey before, and now that there's something resembling nuance, the first thing they do is try to demand that it's black and white so that they can justify why one side is pure evil incarnate.

[@AloiseHandle]

I think Edelgard shares more in common with the French Revolutionaries than she does Marx.

[@DonRavioli92]

I agree. She is fighting for a Meritocracy, not a socialist system. This suggests to me that her ideal result for the people would be capitalist fundamentally, because in that system people of talent and drive can rise status and wealth much more easily than in a Socialist Fodlin.

[@justinianthe1st790]

Good video. I'm not familiar with Marx, but honestly this does sound pretty apt from my vague knowledge of Marx. Which this is a pretty good way to identify Edelgard. Which side note do you think you can cite texts or examples in your videos? Like when you describe Edelgard engaging in Marxism, could you edit in texts with sources or something? Oh and applying Marxism is alot better then applying Marx's other ideology. That being communism. Which I've heard pretty absurd claims that Edelgard is a communist which...no, no she isnt. An autocratic meritocracy literally cant coexist with communism. Her ideal world is where people rise and fall by their own merits. She at no point ever goes off on how all property needs to be collectively owned by the people. Oh and this is the most important part...it emphasizes how everyone is equal and there is *no* class. Hell Edelgard forbids a play by dorothea all about her. That's the most blatant example of a artificial hierarchy happening. So no, not a communist. But she is probably the most anti artificial authority. But I cant help but feel that's somewhat undermined when she institutes an autocratic meritocracy, which will only breed a different kind of hierarchies. But if my understanding is clear of her route and from the CS DLC content, like her support with constance, she does eliminate the nobility and monarchy in its entirety despite some endings contradicting this. Also Søren Kierkegaard, that was unexpected. He was a pretty big deal regarding Absurdism and is regarded as the father of Existentialsm. For those that dont know, the absurd is basically one's personal purpose and in a purposeless universe. We talked about this quite some time ago. What we did not speak of was Soren's belief we all take a "leap of faith" aka believe in God and "suspend our ethics" for faith in him should the time come via divine command. He also believed we need full commitment to religious beliefs and not soft beliefs. Camus believed that to be trash as we are ironically giving up philosophical beliefs by behaving in a "irrational" manner. So interestingly enough I think Camus would see Edelgard as irrational and bad. He was also anti death penalty so chances are he wouldn't approve of consequentialism of this magnitude. Anyway, welcome back again. I'm excited for Three Hopes, and I cant wait to see how they handle these characters again. I'm just hoping Edelgards route is not a dumpster fire again.

[@0axis771]

It's hysterical how you are going out of your way to go and try and demonize Edelgard. Your bias is so obvious that you're trying pretty damn hard to sound smart to erase nuance.

[@justinianthe1st790]

Dude I'm literally talking about philosophy and my personal take regarding her route at the end as a narrative and that's all. I even talk about Albert Camus and Soren and what their takes are regarding life, purpose, and the universe and how they might apply here in this video. Something you dont seem to care about. Which why are you even here? I get you're mad at me being right, but I prefer this post to actually be one of philosophy. If you're not gonna engage in philosophical discussion, specifically absurdism or in this video's case, anything about Soren and Marx, you can leave.

[@0axis771]

@@justinianthe1st790 Pft. You being right? Dude, you're not talking about philosophy so much as trying to twist philosophy to try and throw shade at Edelgard. "Oh, Edelgard didn't object to Dorothea making a play about her". Do you know how pathetic you sound as a result? Clearly not give that you think you're right when you're really anything but.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks for the thoughtful comment! I'd be happy to cite some sources for Marx, sorry for not doing so in the first place. It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but on the contrary their social existence determines their consciousness." (Preface to A critique of Political Economy, 1859) "Theses On Feuerbach" "Das Kapital" I totally agree that communism is a gross mischaracterization of Edelgard's political philosophy. I really thought that the Kierkegaardian reading of Edelgard's character would be fun because faith as a concept might initially seem anathema to Edelgard's identity. I'm looking forward to Three Hopes too and I'm glad to be back!

[@justinianthe1st790]

@@ordinaryunits4341 Thanks for the reply and the citation. Thank god we agree communism is absolutely not applicable to Edelgard. That's just ridiculous. Three Hopes is shaping up to be pretty exciting, so I hope she'll have a good route this time. Swear to God if IS cuts out a SS route in gonna be annoyed. I'll be honest, I'm playing every FE and I dont think theres many Lords who are very philosophical or embody much, if any philosophical belief beyond "help everyone because everyone matters" The closest so far is Celica...and I absolutely hate her. I'm at FE 4 and maybe Sigurd has something going for him. He undergoes possibly the most hardship that we *see* a lord go through in the series. Prior to Dimitri at least. Could be wrong but that's what I see so far. Then again an SNES Fire Emblem can only give you so much to work with. Arvis probably has something to work with. He is a pretty compelling baddie.

[@sueflewelling3657]

odanaryunit i have a question for you do you think edelgard was base on real world historical fiction like napoleon?

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks for the question. Having seen some interviews with the devs they've never stated being directly influenced by Napoleon, however I think if you were to make any comparison between Edelgard and a historical figure Napoleon would be a relatively good one. The one major confounding contradiction would be that Napoleon ultimately reaffirmed the catholic church in france while Edelgard's express goal was to undermine the authority of her church. Instead I think that Edelgard could best be understood as a composite of many of the enlightenment/modernity's ideas pertaining to humanism.

[@sueflewelling3657]

@@ordinaryunits4341 thank you for answering my question. I have a few more but before I do I need to know if you played fw fates?

[@ordinaryunits4341]

@@sueflewelling3657 Yeah I got you're comment I was just away from my computer. I have not played fates yet, three houses was my first fe game

[@sueflewelling3657]

@@ordinaryunits4341 ok i was just wondering if you know anything about the nohrians,?

[@sueflewelling3657]

@@ordinaryunits4341 but there is some more things I like to talk about.like edelgard if you want?

[@ecoulter96]

I am glad you made the comparison of Reah and edelgard. They are two sides of the same coin. Both are willing to force the 🌎 to bend to their lies if it serves their goals. When I played her rout I felt I was replacing one tyrant with another.

[@justinianthe1st790]

To be fair Rhea didnt force anyone to enact the Crest system. If I'm not mistaken she put value on them and according to an interview with the devs, she had to in order to end the war. That said Rhea needed to be stopped in CF. But every other route, I like her and I want her to live.

[@0axis771]

Edelgard and Rhea are similar, but there's one thing that separates them. Rhea lost all faith in the future and believed only by going back to the past will everyone be happy. Edelgard is about letting go of the past and focusing on striving to create a future where people can live happily. This is why Rhea's method ultimately revolved around trying to revive Sothis, whereas Edelgard wanted to dismantle the current status quo and make it where anyone can strive to reach the top, rather than be born into power. Edelgard is hardly a tyrant. Rather, she's the one that gave people actual freedom to pursue their beliefs. Could it get messed up in the future? Sure. But no system is perfect. Even now, to this day, the systems like democracy are starting to show how it's starting to degrade and how even that system is able to be corrupted.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

I think the interplay between the two is really interesting because it showcases their similarities personality wise, while also showing how their choices and concerns make them very distinct and oppositional characters to one another.

[@fyncheniteO]

@@justinianthe1st790 Rhea didn’t need to die in CF either because CF isn’t another canon where characters are just, different people. She’s salvageable at any point prior to Fhirdiad. “Trauma stricken patients should be put down at once” really doesn’t have good implications.

[@fyncheniteO]

Edelgard’s “own goal” was to make Adrestia great again at the cost of the church, the alliance, the kingdom and potentially all their respective cultures and histories. Rhea’s “own goal” was ending the war, not getting herself and her family killed and have her mother fix the suffering of Fodlan. They’re very much not the same. Also the only tyrant Edelgard personally knew of was Ionius. Imagine dealing with the aftermath of the Hrym family being *wiped out* because they sought independence and thought “hmph this is fine” and when Rhea executed the Western Church bishops that *you* had instigated with the intrusion/assassination plan that’s not going to end well and thought “no doubt she’s a tyrant”. Make it make sense Edelgard.

[@matthewmacaballug5151]

P3 when?

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Very soon. In the next two weeks lol

[@omarkrekeshtv6162]

Great video as usual. I do have a question that is off topic though. In azure moon, both Thales and Cornelia wind up dead, but in every other route Cornelia survives. Can’t one make the argument that Cornelia’s death could be more damaging to TWSITD than the destruction of Shambala?

[@Noahs_Chair]

She diasapears in VW and SS and she is never Heard again while in CF you kill her. The most popular explanation is that Cornelia is Bias in the Shambala chapter since she call Titanus her children and Bias Spawms them Infinetly.

[@justinianthe1st790]

She doesn't survive in CF. She dies there too. But yeah TWSITD can be problematic, especially so if Corneilla is alive. I guess that's why we have happi and no ending seems to make mention of them being a big threat barring a couple endings of remnants and imperial loyalists existing. But considering how their leader, their nukes, their base and their technological resources are wiped out, I have 0 reason to believe TWSITD are ever gonna be major threats to the world, let alone the continent again. Yeah sure its unfortunate some survive, but that's not enough to doom everyone.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Good question, I guess that depends on how much value you place on leadership and organization in comparison to infrastructure and technology. From my perspective twsitd are essentially defanged in all of the routes, but the slight differences between them can leave room for speculation.

[@jkarma3356]

actually cornelia dies in CF.

[@kamilapodolak9289]

Why am I only finding this now? I always thought that Edelgard's relationship with faith is fascinating. As a disillusioned Catholic I definitely relate lol. She is truly motivated by faith - not religious but the faith in humanity. I feel like both her and Claude are idealists masquerading as either a pragmatic or a cynic. She also has all this martyr imagery about her.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

I'm glad that you enjoyed it so much! And I definitely agree that all three main lords are incredibly idealistic, I feel like they become even more so in their routes because they are empowered by byelth. Really interesting stuff!

[@kamilapodolak9289]

@@ordinaryunits4341 I wish videos like yours - well researched, based in the source text and nuanced - gained more traction. FE KZbin tends to be very shallow sadly.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

@@kamilapodolak9289 I do too haha thank you though I really appreciate it. It means a lot! I think it's probably the way it is, I probably just have to get a bit better at presenting my content in an appealing (better editing + thumbnails). And generally people prefer more digestible content. I guess I'll just have to post more and see how it goes lol

[@kamilapodolak9289]

@@ordinaryunits4341 Do clickbait for the greater good/j

[@jkarma3356]

i agree with edelgard the most out of all lords and her route is the best one imo.

[@ordinaryunits4341]

There's a lot to like about Edelgard and she s definitely a very complex leader with clear and somewhat modern goals.

[@ericx6969]

she worst lord and her route worst ur either a nazi or a simp

[@daivambrosia6647]

As both a socialist and a Baedelgard fanboy, I really appreciate that you drew the Marx comparison in an insightful way that references historical materialism. I've seen people make the comparison over the three years the game has been out, but it's often in an "evil red lady emperor = evil red big government authoritarianism" sort of way (which completely mischaracterizes both Edelgard and Marx). Not only does Edelgard advocate a revolution to transcend the class-based oppression of Fódlan, she's also keenly aware that conditions precede consciousness -- that the material circumstances of the world are what create/maintain/limit a person's ideas and relationships and horizons. She also recognizes history for what it is: very often a bloodbath where the strong prey upon the weak and where the dominant class exploits the subordinate class. "The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles." I also think she has some Napoleonic qualities to her as well (even if I ultimately think she is far more defensible than the dude himself, though comparing the ethics of a fictional character and a real one on a topic like this might be an apples/oranges thing). The whole "I must unite the land under one government structure as emperor, end the Church's unjust influence, move beyond superstitious backwater feudalism, and install a more egalitarian meritocracy where one's lineage doesn't matter" thing is very reminiscent of Napoleon's ideological platform (on paper, at least). And one final real-world inspiration I see in her: gnosticism. Her anti-Church stance seems to be less about "there is no divine/higher power" atheism and more about "there is a false demiurge posing as the goddess to deceive people and hoard power" gnosticism. She rejects gods on principle, not as a stance concerning their literal existence -- i.e. she has a problem with the top-down institutional aspect of religion and with gods who impose hierarchical rule from their remote thrones, not with people who happen to be spiritual or who draw strength from a divine power (her supports with Manuela show this off especially well).

[@matmil5]

Socialist when he realises Edelgard wants to bring in meritocracy on which capitalism is founded upon: 😬

[@daivambrosia6647]

@@matmil5 Ah yes, the "meritocracy" of capitalism, where the nepo babies and Elon Musks of the world make bank off the mere ownership of property and capital, while the perpetually-toiling working class lives paycheck-to-paycheck in a state of alienated precarity. Ah yes, truly capitalism is the only system that rewards hard work and grit 🙃

[@ordinaryunits4341]

I'm happy to hear that you felt I represented Marx well, I always strive not to misrepresent different perspectives. Also I agree on some of the Napoleonic influence, I feel like edelgard is a giant composite of different European reformation/enlightenment ideas. Thanks for the comment!

[@mariapazgonzalezlesme]

She have good intentions and wants to change things for a better future, but the way she goes with her ideals are completly wrong. But that's the problem. She is so focused on the future, is not aware of the present. And even if her system is based of merit, it will crumble eventually. Let's not forget her actions also formed by her traumatic experiences with forced Crest experimentations, loss of her siblings and limited lifespan. I wouldn't be surprised if she also heard voices like Dimitri after surviving such event on her life.

[@0axis771]

The war was inevitable the moment the Insurrection of the Seven happened. Remember, the entire reason Edelgard was subjected to the cruel experiments was that Duke Aegir and the other corrupt nobles wanted to start a war themselves and thus wanted to create a puppet emperor with a powerful Crest. The Agarthans wanted their revenge on the Nabateans and the nobles wanted to reunify Fodlan under their rule. Edelgard simply took the war into her own hands and ensured that the status quo would change. And sure, her system could crumble. But the point is that she will install something revolutionary that will give people a taste of freedom that will never be forgotten.

[@justinianthe1st790]

Let's not forget how she is doing imperialism. Sure everyone else does, but I dont think its valid to claim it's okay for Edelgard to do it if everyone else does, especially when she started it and does it the most out of everyone. That's like saying a person who killed in self defense is the same as a serial killer. Technically both are killers but no one would say they are the same. Dimitris route and post fodlan has the least amount of imperialism. For one the church keeps their autonomy, and Dimitri didnt strong arm the alliance into giving up their sovereignty. They willingly did, and while I have my grievances with how that's written and the logic of if, it's still completely different than conquering them. Oh and while I absolutely disagree with Dimtiri conquering Andrestia, it is still different than doing it for your ambitions. Dimitri very clearly wanted peaceful option for ending the war. Edel didnt want it. Dimtiri killed Edelgard in self defense and as far as he's concerned who in the world could he trust to not start this all over again? In other words its different to pacify Andrestia who started this, for the sake of safety. I ultimately dont agree with it but it makes sense and I dont necessarily begrudge Dimitri for what he did. And I like it when the people ultimately get to decide what the leader of their country ought to do. Which Dimtiri's ending does just that. For some reason people genuinely believe that Dimitri didnt institute a constitutional monarchy but he did. Even in Heroes Dimtiri in both Japanese and English makes it clear that the people need to pave the way for the future and the king needs to help build that. Oh and it helps that this won't teach future generations "hey man it's okay to conquer other countries for your beliefs". If Ukraine is anything to go by, no it isnt. You cant conquer places that aren't yours to begin with.

[@0axis771]

@@justinianthe1st790 There's no such thing as self-defense conquest. You invade, you conquer, you annex, you have performed imperialism. Don't make excuses. That is the fundamental truth and who started the war is irrelevant. All routes end up with a unified Fodlan and thus, you're always the imperialist and conqueror.

[@justinianthe1st790]

@@0axis771 I didnt say self defense conquer. I said there's a difference between pacifying a country for who started all this for safety versus doing so for your ambitions. Again that's like comparing a killer who killed in self defense with a serial killer. Both are technically but not the same. Everyone engages in imperialism but to pretend they are all equal is objectively, factually false. Also it's not irrelevant who started the war, wtf? It absolutely matters because that determines fault, motives and justifications. Unless you think accountability doesn't matter, which yes it does. Also yeah all routes end up unified, but how they are unified absolutely matters, and to pretend otherwise is delusional. Also wait a minute aren't you the guy who makes 11 billion replies to people who dont like Edelgard and/or disagree with her. Cause hate to break it to you, if you are that guy, you aren't gonna get me to do an essay match with you, sorry but not sorry. Especially when you tell me to "not make excuses" (I haven't) and that's all you ever do and have done.

[@0axis771]

@@justinianthe1st790 Still not the same. Saying that you're pacifying a country that you conquered is a pretty excuse, but you still invaded, conquered, and annexed it. If Dimitri didn't want to conquer it, he'd not have annexed it into his Kingdom. But he did. Dimitri made no efforts in forming a peace treaty. No, his talk with Edelgard is NOT peace talk. He decided to try and talk to Edelgard only after his army was ready to lay siege on her capital city. Trying to pretend that the other routes are justified to conquer the other countries is a real delusion. Conquest is conquest. There are no buts about it. I dunno what you mean by "that guy" or "11 billion posts", but I'm just gonna correct you on what you are objectively wrong about. Don't start acting like what you're spitting out is facts when you're ultimately trying to justify imperialism yourself for the other routes. By definition, what Dimitri, Claude, and Byleth did was imperialism. That's the fact.

[@Girassol7Acervo]

Nice video, but really, Edelgard has nothing to do with marxism and communism at all. there's nothing marxist in her objectives or methods. There's no revolution for the masses if the revolution is imposed from those in power to the people not in power also, Marx was not against religion

[@ordinaryunits4341]

Thanks for the support! I never intended to lump her in with communism, My comparison to marxism was in regards to his material reproduction of society, revolutionary mindset and his critique of religion as being opiates of the masses. But fair point about the proletariat being necessary for a marxist revolution specifically.

[@ericx6969]

edelgard gives 0 fks people ignore edelgard treats everyone as pawns upset maybe byleth but byleth still being used