The Philosophy of The Good Place - Wisecrack Edition

[@jumpingjoy20]

Actually, I think this show is a RESPONSE to Sarte. Remember Chidi's book is "What We Owe Each Other." Which is about social obligation being the key to good behavior and improvement. It's by dealing with other people that the group escapes the bad place to become "better." It's directly contradicting the conclusions of Sarte. It's saying his hell won't work because other people are also how we are inspired to grow and become better people.

[@multilevelintelligence]

good point.

[@spencerkoelle184]

Also backed up by Eleanor's backstory, where we see that what really set her down her dark path of evil and misery was a deliberate withdraw from the people around her and any mutual ties to them.

[@seth5143]

Haven't seen the Good Place, but I noticed while reading your comment how perfectly well what you're saying lines up with the themes of Schur's other series.

[@tusharg8452]

This is spot on.

[@rubenzavala2084]

A +

[@reaunamaughon]

My question is how the hell did chidi choose a major in the first place and how long did it take him?

[@aleandrian]

Just finished it... same question here.. But he kinda choose the major OF choices itself...

[@PranayVaidya]

Cause if you are lit enough to think like a philosopher, you know that other majors don't really matter. So, there was no choice.

[@finding_aether]

Chidi is actually 45 years old. He took 13 years to pick his major

[@fatuousinnovatorofsadness4640]

They answered that in the flashback in the second to last episode. Chidi gave a lecture to his parents, (professor) about the overall reasons they should stay together, and he used a philosophy book to base his argument. It was pretty clear to me that this had the double effect of destroying his ability to make choices, but also giving him a passion - to find the toughest shit to answer in life, which is moral philosophy. His girlfriend argues theoretical physics at one point, but those do have answers that we haven't yet found. Moral philosophy allows for exploration of the values of daily life, which is where his origins of both a shitty choice maker and a professor came into being. He chose his major because it was a core part of his personality, as much as being indecisive was.

[@francomuscellini1744]

Like, 3 Beramys

[@novelmartinez6154]

"Dear frozen yogurt, you are the celery of desserts. Be ice cream or be nothing." - Ron Swanson

[@AxelQC]

But celery adds a lot of flavor to food. The mirepoix is the base of most soups, stews and many sauces. It's diced onions, carrots, and celery that is sauteed to release its flavor, and then the rest of the ingredients are added.

[@RickReasonnz]

Yoghurt>Ice cream

[@lizx9012]

Karth38 what the fuck is wrong with you

[@void-xt8pw]

I'm sorry but frozen yogurt is better then icecream.

[@dumbsquaredgirl5709]

The

[@hbaldinr]

I cried a lot on the finale, seeing they passing through the portal was so touching

[@Wolfsbane909]

can we reboot this series because its generating way more buzz now then it did in the before times. the networks might want to replace chidi with an white power puff guy. >.

[@user-yz4jg7xl7u]

​@@Wolfsbane909what.?

[@tagcoriolis1029]

Yeah Chidi choosing to end his existence rather than spending eternity with Eleanor proving that he is the selfish one is really touching if not ineptly written by Hollywood elites who claim the moral high ground while supporting genocide in Palestine.

[@capt.anxiety9502]

best line of the good place Eleanor: clam chowder is just hot ocean milk with dead animal croutons

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

Ew, no seasonings? lol

[@ofirstroh]

Counterargument: I'm gonna grab some Camus!

[@InYourWallsAndSink]

Yes

[@291577th]

HOT DIGGITY DOG

[@hectorarredondo6929]

Best part was when jason of all people figured out that they are in the bsd place and Michael feels offended that his simulation didn't work

[@mahmodeissa9172]

Finally a show that puts the trolly dilemma in action

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

The correct answer is to grind on both sets of tracks. -insert heavy euro beat-

[@peterDcontact]

Mind field, the youtube red series has a "real life" application of this theory

[@mahmodeissa9172]

@@peterDcontact thanks a lot

[@DaSquareful]

Idk what I was expecting Mr. indecision to do, I mean, its pretty obvious in hindsight.

[@jsveterans6949]

Kirk it! I don't believe in no win scenario's...

[@mirashakti380]

I think something you didn't mention but that the show demonstrates is that you don't need friends who are better than you that you emulate, you need people you genuinely CARE about. Genuinely caring is more likely to make you act ethically than anything else, especially since the show points out that if you do good for the sake of being good it doesn't really count. For the most part, none of the characters had that before the Good/Bad Place, and developed the relations with each other there. Somewhere in their consciousness, those connections still exist even with memory loss, something in them has been changed by knowing that there is something worth being good for. A small example of this is that even back when Eleanor was alive she took her niece to the mall for a snack, because she cared. Caring is important. Micheal didn't predict that the people who torture us most are the people we are most likely to be able to form real relationships with, and thus grow with. Caring IS torture. Also, he grows to care for them as he gets to know them intimately, and is basically their god for years.

[@danielarossi5437]

I love this. Just a question, was it being good for the sake of being good or being good for the rewards of being good? or both of those, and both are just as bad?

[@mirashakti380]

@@danielarossi5437 I think maybe being good for the rewards is worse, but I'm not sure the show makes a distinction. Either way, neither is really authentic, which is why they don't count. For example, look at Chidi, he was always trying to be good for the sake of being good, and that attitude hurt him mostly because all his decisions, or non-decisions, were convoluted and hurt people. Like when he missed his mom's surgery because he didn't think it was right to break promises, even though he had only promised to help someone figure out how to use their phone, and they definitely would have understood and could have rescheduled. But he was so caught up in "being good" that he was actually bad. Probably a lot of times in his life if he'd just been more selfish he would have been better, ironically. Another example could be really out there, like you volunteer to do something just to be good, but your heart really isn't in it, you could accidentally taken a spot away from someone who was truly passionate, so in the greater scheme of things your efforts are never going to be as much of a benefit to the project as that person's would have been, so you inadvertently actually did something bad. Of course, if they're under-staffed, all hands are welcome, but it's just a possibility. Everything is very complicated. I won't be surprised if in the end the show reveals there is no real good and bad place, and it's all some bigger scheme than that, because the whole idea of being able to label people intrinsically good or bad without taking into account everything that went into forming them and their decision processes is silly. Really, all four of them died without anyone to really look forward to being great companions with, aka soul mates, in heaven, so maybe the show is a giant match-making device lols. Not only match you up with a soul mate, but help teach you to actually have a successful relationship and meaningful existence. Just a thought. (Sorry my answer is long-winded, this is one of my favorite shows and topics ever.)

[@danielarossi5437]

No, I really appreciate the long answer! It's so unusual to have a nice chat in the comments section. The four of them are so interesting characters, the part of the heart not being there is what sent Tahani to the bad place, and the lack of empathy and caring sent Chidi there. Jason maybe the controversial one? because he's basically a walking hydrangea (you know: pretty, decorative, useless, and potentially toxic if ingested); so being an absolute dumbass that can't fully grip the difference between good and bad is enough to send somebody to the bad place?

[@mirashakti380]

@@danielarossi5437 I agree, it is very unusual to have a nice chat in comments, usually my comments all get ignored lols! This is awesome. A walking hydrangea, that's hilarious =) If we are to believe the show's premise, he's there simply on a point based system. However, to me he's one of the best examples of potentially it being more of a learning opportunity. Plus he and Tahani are kinda perfect for each other. He's simple enough to basically worship her, while also kinda bringing her down a few notches to reality. I think they can really help each other grow, she's over-educated and he's under-educated, but when it comes to having a good time he's more educated then she is! And he wants to be a DJ, and she loves to throw parties, it's great. Also, his childlike way of seeing everything is a great foil for all the character's, because it kind of tests their goodness by giving them opportunities to react. Sometimes I think maybe the show is also a metaphor for the fact that if you're living a "bad" life, you are already in a bad place. I mean, for example, Jason's stupidity repeatedly landed him in bad and painful scenarios, such as suffocating in a safe. So he doesn't need to become that much smarter really, he just needs to have better friends who've got his back and will help him keep from "shooting himself in the foot." The natural reward for this is that they get to enjoy his spontaneous excitement about reality, and his great knowledge of hot-wings and music. Thus, being "truly good" is a natural reward, not in big mansions or magical rewards like the "good place," but in meaningful moments that genuinely feel good to have experienced with the people you were with. No matter how nice a life you have, it can still turn to dust in your mouth if you don't spend it with the right people, which is evidenced by Tahani. She had everything anyone could reasonably wish for, but since she had no concept of true love or friendship she tried to fill that hole by competing with her sister, falsely believing that somehow being more and more "successful" would bring her fulfillment. She always name dropped, or number dropped, or achievement dropped, but she never had any really poignant memories of a moment spent with another person that was just special. I mean, maybe there are portions of hell filled with butt spiders that are reserved for the truly evil (if they can't be deleted, I sometimes find it hard to imagine the universe wasting space on the truly irredeemable, but since I'm not God and can't see the entirety of anyone's existence who knows what they can do with people's souls), but I think since this show focuses on four fairly benign characters I can safely suppose that they aren't truly destined for the "bad place" and potentially never were. They just didn't have anyone to hang out with, and had a lot of growing left to do in order to be able to have happy existences.

[@oof-rr5nf]

Awesome comment, OP!

[@basedbattledroid3507]

The Philosophy of The Good Place is that Blake Bortles is Dope.

[@oswaldosaenz2083]

Vegetarian Soylent-Green Jake Jortles XD

[@maysings1875]

Jason--is that you?

[@sass20001]

FOOOOOLLLLLLLEEEESSSSS

[@netclips4k]

Go Jags!!!

[@ParanormalEncyclopedia]

It's also "throw a molotov cocktail"

[@nachoviking]

Haven’t seen this show? Ya Basic!

[@coyfish4610]

Ive just listened to the Good Place podcast and D'arcy Carden says that she went with one of the writers to a Beyoncé concert and this guy kept criticizing Beyoncé all the time, till they confronted him and he turned to them and said: Ya basic! That's how that line ended up in the show. So funny.

[@Momo-bu3le]

Adrian Perez Ya basic!

[@joseluissantillanbravo77]

That's devastating, i'm devastated now.

[@aesannie2952]

I’ve seen it does that mean I’m cool cool cool cool cool

[@Dyieg0]

No adrian, ya basic

[@Maria-fz8km]

The idea of Chidis philosophy lessons still sticking with Eleanor despite the memory wipes seems to parallel the way that Janet is constantly evolving with every reboot and still having emotions for Jason despite not remembering any of it

[@SgtAntsy9819]

On a meta-ethical note, all that learning about philosophy did for me was drastically increase my existential despair. Seriously, each system of philosophy I learnt about only increased my conviction that no system of beliefs or understanding of existence is ultimately reliable and we are doomed to ambiguity, unable to grasp a tangible meaning on any level. Even better, there's a philosophy describing that very thing; it's called Phyrricism (if I'm remembering correctly) and it's core tenet is "Nothing can be known, not even this." so I'm denied even the brief joy of having had an original thought.

[@McSenkel]

And?

[@SgtAntsy9819]

What I can't just wax lyrical about my existential dread on a youtube video?? Unless that was extremely dry humour in which case bravo

[@cisalzlman]

Chidi is that you

[@laumay7364]

"Despair, doomed, denied even the brief joy,". Why does "is" make you unhappy. Philosophically, you have made a choice to interpret everything as "bad." As Peter Griffin would say, "Stop it, just stop it!"

[@kitthornton2336]

"...doomed to ambiguity..." There's the problem. Ambiguity isn't necessarily a source of despair. To be human is to live in ambiguity like a fish lives in water. It has limits, but within it, you are free. Life has the meaning you give it. There is no giver of meaning out there that you must conform to. Ambiguity is just another way of saying "Liberty."

[@samrecio2313]

This is literally on my top ten favorite shows ever

[@mifhadi]

HypeR BF Hey could you list the other 9 shows? Thanks

[@TuanNguyen-ko9wz]

I expect at least another Michael Schur-run show, The Office or Nine-Nine, on your list.

[@quranmccoy5672]

Same

[@alyssalelis1084]

@@TuanNguyen-ko9wz Well it's on my list lol

[@eperke2933]

i noticed that anyone who ever watched the good place says that its a masterpiece/ its one of the best shows ever. Its a shame that many people don't even know it.

[@taojingwu6330]

can we also talk about how Janet is one of the funniest characters ever written?

[@saloni.sharma]

and how amazingly D'arcy handled the character!

[@spiderscurry5614]

true

[@satan_from_hell]

“not a girl :)”

[@Wolfsbane909]

yeah but the bad place people will just simply rip it off like an common peasant pilgerist, so they deserve to be in the bad place. u seen bad janet, its pretty much non functioning

[@Wolfsbane909]

I can relate to Jason because he has an dance group called dance dance resolution.

[@jordangreggs588]

Not a girl, not a robot I’m Janet

[@D.M.S.]

Actually you are Jordan.

[@MrJuanjo795]

Hi I'm elfo

[@BARALover96]

I'm Aigis

[@UsenameTakenWasTaken]

I am Spartacus!

[@danielarossi5437]

Not just a Janet anymore :)

[@stephg0883]

I feel like there are more lessons in this show that are hidden. That living on earth is torture but your perspective and your actions are what turns it into "the good place". Also that you may take different paths in your life but it will always end up at the same destination. That you won't cherish anything in your life unless it has an end date. And there are so many more lessons. Such a well written show

[@TofuTeo]

Thank you for this comment :-)

[@intellectually_lazy]

what kinda fucked up place turns away refugees? there's one

[@MidniteMagus]

I feel like especially in season 2 there's also a conversation to be had about whether or not it's fair to judge a person's actions without taking their environment into context. Eleanor learns to be good in the Good/Bad place because all of her external problems have been taken care of (food, shelter, etc) and she has the time to focus on learning to be a better person. The last episode of season 2 shows us that in real life she struggles and falters a few times because the trials and pressures of life make her journey of self-improvement incredibly difficult. I also think the fact that Michael's character goes from being a demon to a crusader against the system is another add-on to this argument. A demon who simply lives to torture people might never question his/her role, but a demon who learns to know those people as human and gets to know them personally might suddenly have a change of heart. The fact that he calls out the system as unfair is (I think) the show's big philosophical reveal this season and might be the best commentary it has made on religion and ethics so far.

[@ScarletDeath]

I took an Ethics in Journalism class. Studied a bunch of stuff....and then at the very end the professor was like, "ultimately, you have to decide what you're going to do." What I gained from that, is that ethics can be flexible. Like having to know the rules in order to break them properly. Understanding the consequences, as well.

[@VanNessy97]

Pick your battles

[@Aras483]

Great explanation and perspective on this topic, well done.

[@sophiejones7727]

"there's something so human about taking something great and ruining it a little so you can have more of it"-omigawd now I need to watch this so bad. Is this on Netflix?

[@kriz11dc]

yes

[@intellectually_lazy]

and i thought my metaphor for capitalism was apt

[@smol_chilli_pepper]

I love this show a lot. It's clever, funny and thought-provoking with actually good comedy. Not to mention hella unique. If you haven't seen it yet I highly recommend it

[@DanteYewToob]

The way I saw it, they got better and improved because they were so different. They each had flaws, and strengths that helped eachother grow. Chidi had the smarts, but was too indecisive to put them to use, while Eleanor was direct and quick at making decisions and could go with the flow. Tahani was obsessed with self image, while Jason didn't care what anyone thinks. There are many examples like these of how the group fits together and improves eachother based on the strengths and flaws of each of them. Sure there was no single good person for then to learn from as an example, but combined they all make for one great person! They didn't need a single good person to learn from. I think, had they all been similar and had similar flaws, it never would have worked and they wouldn't have improved.

[@LEFT4BASS]

When I learned about ethical theories in school I realized that you can justify nearly any action with at least one moral theory. Utilitarianism alone could be used to justify a ton of terrible things.

[@romanski5811]

Only poor understandings of utilitarianism could be used to justify a ton of terrible things.

[@jjescorpiso21]

@@romanski5811 Poor understanding doesn't deter people from doing bad things 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@romanski5811]

@@jjescorpiso21 Yeah, but that's exactly _my_ point.

[@RaquelSantos-hj1mq]

And it was!

[@invincibleimage3713]

i literarally just finished binge watching this 5 mins ago

[@multilevelintelligence]

2

[@DouglasBelt]

Never thought Jason belonged in the bad place, he seemed so innocent and stupid but genuinely cared about folks.

[@cjboyo]

Okay, but the points system only counts positive actions taken with no exterior motives, and Jason did a ton of bad shit no matter where his heart was.

[@El_Rey_247]

Clara Kolterman, The points system could be entirely made up since we don't know exactly how the real good place works. We do know that intention matters, though, since Tahani's positive actions weren't counted because she was doing it for the wrong reasons.

[@nellnee72]

When someone is just so ... simple? ... is it wrong to condemn them to the bad place?

[@timbeaton5045]

Doug Belt...as Clara points out "... but the points system only counts positive actions taken with no exterior motives.." which is in itself a meta critique of Utilitarianism. So essentially the determination of of destination i..e. Good Place or Bad Place is only contingent on the outcome of your actions. However, this is undercut when Eleanor only gains points on that stopwatch thingy, when she realises that her motives ARE being taken into account. This is a bit of "Having your frozen yoghurt and eating it"

[@soumyaranjankanr306]

@@cjboyo Yeah, obliviously and without thinking of consequences

[@yusefendure]

The impact of the show was enormous. Unlike the cold, mechanical approach of learning ethics in a classroom or from reading books, The Good Place hooks you with emotional bonding. Every character was on the hero's journey. That's why it's easy to love the characters. Watching people fall then rise again stronger can motivate people to change for the better.

[@Ben-rz9cf]

So heres my theory. Throughout the show based on their time on earth, we only ever have examples of what disqualifies someone to get into the good place, but never examples of what must be done to qualify. And we are also given competing moral philosophies, which we can most certainly RULE OUT as the "right" philosophy based on what we've seen. On one hand, if pure utilitarianism were the "right" way, then Tahani would be in the good place based on the sheer volume of good her philanthropy had done for humanity, which would outweigh her impure intentions in doing so. On the other hand, we see Chidi constantly in a quandry about competing moral philosophies, but the only one we ever see him follow to a T is the Kantian method, so much so that it actually tore him up inside the select 1 or 2 times he violated the Kantian philosophy in his entire life (or afterlife, for that matter). In fact, the inner turmoil that causes so much pain for him and the people around him is the sheer incompatibility of the Kantian approach which he follows, and the competing moral philosophies he is in consideration of. So we can rule Kant out. (also, Michael confirmed Kant is in the bad place, although he might have been forking with him.) The one time in the show we see a moral philosophy that actually might work is when we see Elenor announce her self identification as a moral particularist, which convinces Chidi to abandon his purely Kantian approach, and save his friends in the process. In fact, it is her ability to balance these philosophies, that unites the gang and pushes them towards their best selves. She's also the one that best sees the absurdity of creating an entire reality to torture and punish people who weren't amazingly benevolent in real life--however, no one has of yet, pointed out the sheer hypocrisy of using a supposedly "objective and absolute" moral standard to STRAIGHT UP TORTURE PEOPLE as if torture itself is somehow more ethical when done by higher dimensional beings. The way i see it, if there is a hell, its an insane load of bullshit because how the fuck is torturing people any more morally superior than anything they could have done to deserve torture? And how is MORE power something that entitles you to be the torturer, rather than having a greater responsibility not to abuse that power like any other human evaluation of ethical standards? Why the fuck shouldn't we hold god to the same OR HIGHER moral standard as we hold ourselves?

[@twinscythezone5043]

Word. You should come to the Good place discord and we can talk philosophy XD

[@af-ptheace1085]

Damn I just watched the show cause Kristen Bell is hot

[@UOweMe]

They started to get into that at the end of last season, going to the accounting department and disputing how the point system works. I think we'll see more in the season to come!

[@twinscythezone5043]

@@UOweMe I'm quite excited to see how it all wraps up

[@Cristian-sn5ow]

I hope the ending of the show was enjoyable for you i had similar questions wondering how could the system be so hypocritical. I loved the ending and how they gave everyone the benefit of the doubt allowing them to retest over and over until everyone finally belonged in the good place. If there is an afterlife/creator of some sort I really hope this is the most accurate depiction of it.

[@ajavisk]

I love that show. Extremely funny, relatable characters and actually makes me think

[@batgurrl]

Ajavisk totally agreed. It’s a real gem

[@FilmFightFanatic]

Asking whether learning about ethics makes you a more ethical person seems like a very loaded question. What is "ethical" even supposed to be in this case? Following any moral philosophy and sticking with it regardless of how valid it is? I wonder what the definition of "moral" actually was in the study cited in the video. What formed the basis of what is considered "ethical behavior" in it? Because the study may just reveal the moral biases of the philosopher more than it does the ethical nature of the participants' actions.

[@Ansatz66]

"What is 'ethical' even supposed to be in this case?" That question is the very concept of metaethics. It's not about how to be a good person, but rather it's about trying to decide what it would even mean to be a good person. There is a wide variety of answers and people will probably be arguing about it for as long as at least two people exist. "Following any moral philosophy and sticking with it regardless of how valid it is?" That's probably not what they were going for in the study. It's hard to believe anyone would take a metaethical theory like that seriously. "I wonder what the definition of moral actually was in the study cited in the video." All the important metaethical theories have much in common. Any theory that said it was good to steal or murder would be fairly rejected by almost everyone. You don't necessarily need to pick a favorite theory in order to determine whether people are behaving morally. The more difficult question is how they measured which people were behaving morally. People aren't usually open and honest about their immoral decisions.

[@FilmFightFanatic]

But they can't measure how people behave ethically when the very concept of ethics is the unanswered question itself. You can teach someone any ethical theory but you can't say whether they act ethically because we haven't even established what "ethical" is in the first place. Let's say we teach someone utilitarianism and how to apply that to the trolley problem by sacrificing one person to save the larger group on the other track. Sacrificing one for the many is "ethical" in the utilitarian sense but also not in the deontological sense. Deontology (like the categorical imperative) might be the next ethical theory they learn. So if that same person were to go out and behave in whatever way, any of their actions could be justified by any ethical theory. So you can't really say whether they behaved more ethically or not after learning ethics because it hasn't been decided what constitutes an "ethical" action. Therefore if the philosopher conducting the survey were to say people didn't act more ethically after learning ethics it would either assume that one ethical theory is more "ethical" than the other, or that the the person was only taught one ethical theory and their actions were only considered "ethical" if they only acted according to that specific ethical theory. Either way the study is biased. Once again, I'm not talking about metaethics as a whole. I'm talking about the study that was cited and how its design may have some problems (only because the video didn't clarify).

[@josen95]

@Jamyang Pelsang YES. THANK YOU!!!

[@AspLode]

Well this problem was actually confronted in the bad-place-museum-opening scene (S2E10), where Eleanor pokes holes in Chidi's adherence to Kant's strict prohibition of dishonesty by bringing up Johnathan Dancy's Moral Particularism which is the vehicle by which Chidi temporarily escapes the Kantian prison to which he sentenced himself to, and had been the foil to every convenient choice he had turned down up until then. It suggests that what is ethical is a fluid concept that takes into account the happiness and preferences of others, even demons, and by consequence the integrity of their joint plan to get through the bad place to reach the Judge.

[@jaytay223]

I think it's important to remember that Eleanor became a good person when she went back to Earth because she survived a near death experience. That's how all of them were. It was basically the point of sending them back.

[@midoribushi5331]

I binge watched this show recently and fell in love. Great ending. Great cast /w amazing chemistry, excellent writing, directing, etc. Fork yeah!

[@iloveyoufor10000years]

I'm in a philosophy class because of this show and i'm slowly learning that i actually really love philosophy

[@rashelhernandez5396]

This show changed the way I see the after life and I am constantly self conscious about my good actions and whether I’m doing it for the sake of being good or for my future like I had a full on break down after watching this show about if I’m actually a good person or not

[@DodgeWatt]

Thank you wisecrack, i never heard of this till your video, binge watched the first two seasons and now season three has started. Thank you for showing me this existed!

[@DodgeWatt]

Just an FYI i binged before watching this(watched about 1min) and your video is on point.

[@JWilkinsonYIF]

I’m so glad you examined The Good Place! Awesome viddy!

[@thetruthbetweenthelines8521]

This was so much fun! Excellent work!

[@johnsnow9210]

Agreed, she killed it.

[@GogiRegion]

One of my favorite parts of the show, is that they not only have the brief philosophy lessons in the show, but the rest of the show actually subtly covers those same lessons (or in episodes without lessons, other philosophy concepts), increasing your knowledge on the concepts.

[@sheepybreaker]

THIS IS THE WISECRACK I BEEN WAITING FOR!

[@griffinroberts6518]

I was going to request this on patreon, thank god y’all read my mind. This is why I love wisecrack!

[@vampireknight1003]

and i was just re-visiting another video essay on The Good Place when the notification bell rang! wisecrack is the best.

[@ojiverdeconfleco]

Loved this video! And still you didn't expand on the "why act well? Because we owe it to each other", which I think is the actual moral stance the show takes. It is because of our relationships (in the broad sense but also in the particular) that we owe each other acts of goodness and love. And yes, this could also be a very Catholic read on moral dilemas, but there you have it.

[@Personal_Chizo]

You *REALLY* couldn't figure out whether the almost-robot that learns to love has a philosophical/moral relevance to the the show? ...REALLY?!

[@Beatness121]

explain

[@danielarossi5437]

Yeah, explain. Also, not an almost robot.

[@gato8225]

and then created another of her own but inferior for reasons she cannot understand

[@kaztros2595]

Not Hermes Bouza, but there's a lot of good writing going on with the almost-robot: Janet is an embodiment of The Objective Lens, through which any quantitative question can be answered. But she's limited (as is that lens) to which questions she can answer. The show asks us, while considering meta-ethics, about which questions can't be answered objectively. E.g. "Why do I find this beautiful?" is a question Janet shouldn't be able to ask: she shouldn't carry a bias. And it's a question that people struggle with in rational objective terms. If what's beautiful to us cannot be explained in rational objectivism, then how we pursue beauty may not be visible through The Objective Lens. The Good Place is asking us to consider the limitations of quantitative analysis for the characters: Janet's memory is reset, and her memories with Jason are removed. Yet she's irrationally sad when Jason is set to marry Tahani. Michael and Janet can objectively correlate her glitches to that relationship, but there's no rational reason for this to happen -- unless only quantitative memories removed every wipe. Janet, with subjective memories and tastes, is now more human-like. And Janet's process is the same as the humans: Eleanor isn't behaving differently because she, pre-wipe, could recite Kierkegaard and Kant. It's because she learned to love Chidi, and what he loves.

[@619Gotenks]

You could also not be a dick and just say it and be helpful instead of essentially not saying anything at all.

[@Gavgoyle]

Great forking coverage of a great forking show!! The Trolley Dilemma episode had me in stitches when I first saw it. Excellent job, Helen, you knocked that shirt out of the park!

[@batgurrl]

The best network comedy on TV currently. Clever and deep and silly. Thanks so much for this video

[@kentmiller7742]

I've been watching your videos for quite some time, and this one was utterly exceptional! I have two requests: 1. Wish Jared some love! - I'm so so glad he's taking some time for himself (Force knows he needs it) and this also allows us to see more of the Wisecrack team presenting videos (all the while living up to Jared's legendary standard!) 2. Philosophy of Crazy Ex-girlfriend! - it's probably my favorite show right now, and it explores some great themes of mental health, tolerance, and romance narratives. Thank you all for everything you do! Peace! ✌✌✌

[@gyrozeppeli8940]

Just finished two seasons of this show in the last two days and now this. Ayyyo.

[@sussanroads42039]

You've really nailed it with this video.

[@andromedasmoons3647]

The reason Eleanor behaves more ethically and begins trying to become a good person at the end of S2 is because Michael alters the moment of her death and the near-death experience makes her reevaluate her life. She had absolutely no memories of dying and being in the "Good Place" because it happened in a different time line, so those experiences couldn't have altered her moral intuitions because they didn't happen to her. This also explains why she still behaved how she did in the grocery store and treated the environmental activist the same exact way. The change began after her near death experience.

[@Pillbughug5742]

Helen, I’m so glad that you’re on the channel. Thanks for carrying us through the episode!

[@ultraatari9298]

An interesting meta action would be for a hardcore fan to compile the good point score data like I saw using Facebook as a verb is -5 and staying loyal to the Cleveland browns +50 and see what a person would be like if they did everything either defined as good or bad by this list.

[@jsveterans6949]

Like China? Or the Orville?

[@affanshaikh8492]

I know I'm late to the "trolley" but this was such a good show! I had difficulty finishing the last episode because I had that empty feeling inside me of "what I'm gonna do after this is over?" So I kept delaying the episode but while watching it I realised Eleanor was feeling the same... The sense of being alone was scary but as Michael said... "Not knowing what's gonna happen next is the beauty of being human"

[@allnaturalfigjam310]

The Good Place is one of only three shows I've ever watched where after every scene I've said "Oh wow, [different main character] is my absolute favourite!!" because they're all so well-written and interesting. The other two shows are Brooklyn Nine-Nine and Bojack Horseman ^_^

[@Ryangubbs]

Thanks for showing us where the idea for the show came from and nicely sum up the characters and the parts they play. Great talk for those unfamiliar with the show and its themes.

[@Notrealmang]

When y'all doing bojack season 5 my dudes

[@IanCookUS]

plz

[@epsorks]

Need Jared back first my dude.

[@supertigik]

holy shit its out, thank you for reminding

[@marcuscarcus159]

bill nyen Calm does it just came out.

[@CrypticBore]

Miss read the comments as the the wise crack video came out but you all meant bojack I binged that as soon as it came out.I loved it

[@stevegovea1]

This is how good this show has got in my head.... I woke up this morning and realized the connection between this show and The Wizard of OZ !!!!!

[@philosophywithanirishaccen4849]

This show sounds incredible! I can't believe I hadn't heard of it before now! Thanks so much for making this video

[@lordfuture1]

I love wisecracks return to deep philosophical quandries and examples. I always feel like I'm learning something when I watch this channel. And in the good place, bad place, or here on Earth which is probably the worst place LOL that makes me happy!

[@Tabby3456]

Show: has a point system based on ethics of individual China: this is the best thing!

[@Yatukih_001]

The Good Place does not have a point system based on ethics of individual behaviour but rather results in a decision to introduce a system of reward for ethical behaviour which is actually the opposite. This makes the show bad for communist countries now. Sorry mate.

[@elbruces]

Thanks for making the "No Exit" connection. That was something they never talked about in the show, even though it was the most obvious. "I'm not a literal hell monster." That is exactly something a literal hell monster would say...

[@munjee2]

But did micheal lie about the college kid who got everything right ?

[@justlurkingat8]

Munjee Syed damn! Now i wanna know too... Is Doug Forcett a real person? Or just a play on our feelings?

[@camdensparks524]

Did he predict the good place being the bad place

[@c.lawnmower_]

It would be pretty random if he was made up. I think he existed.

[@casualpotato44]

@@camdensparks524 Probably not. If we are to assume that Doug Forcett's predictions are real and not something that Michael just made up, he couldn't have predicted something that isn't a thing yet. Michael's good place switcheroo is first of its kind. And there's probably a million of good place neighborhood that is not secretly the bad place. If Forcett predicted it, Michael would be just copying Forcett's idea. When Michael was pitching the idea to other demons, there's no mention of Forcett. Could go either way tbh, there's plenty of ways to go around it coz there's not much to go on. But my bet is Forcett didn't predict it and switcheroo is solely Michael's idea.

[@camdensparks524]

@@casualpotato44 I'm worried for your health

[@steelbulwark8094]

I'd like to point out that there is a flaw in the philosophy of presenting moral philosophers as successful. The more we think about how to think, the less we think about how to move forward. Just a bit of Solomon's Lamentations, think what you will :) I love this series, and I was glad you brought meta-ethics into this one. Keep up the good work.

[@Tori.f.116]

I’m a fairly simple person. I see anything “The Good Place”, I click.

[@netclips4k]

This video was actually the reason I started watching the show. Thank you so much!

[@charlimorris1545]

I think that it wasn't just the fact that Chidi was teaching Eleanor ethecs that made her a better it was also the fact that Chidi cared about her as that is the element that was missing in her human life and as she made more good choices she realised the impact the had on the world. Some times I think she also just found it hard to find a Reason. Is that really her fault though???

[@danduhlion]

You just got me to start watching it. I was presumptuously assuming it was corny and putting off giving it a try. It still a tiny bit but I like corny too and I like the stuff you dug into. Thank you!! You just got a subscriber.

[@SoniaSephia]

CHIDI! CHHHIIIDDDIII!! CCCCHHHHIIIIIDDDDIII!!!

[@oof-rr5nf]

my dude my main guy the indecisive love of my life

[@tishlinda]

Thank you for the video; this is one of my favorites shows, I think it has been underrated for​ so long.

[@TheOneTrueChad]

It's about forkin' time! First thing I thought watching this show was "why hasn't Wisecrack done like 50 episodes on this already?"

[@lordfuture1]

Brava Brava! I love the good place when it came out and I love wisecracks return to deep philosophical laundries and examples. I always feel like I'm learning something when I watch this channel. And in the good place, bad place, or here on Earth which is probably the worst place LOL that makes me happy!

[@Grizabeebles]

Here's my take on what gets you into _The Good Place:_ "God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players [i.e. everybody], to being involved in an obscure and complex variant of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time.” -- Terry Pratchett That's the end result of consequentialism folks. Morality is so much shooting in the dark. Sometimes you kill someone, sometimes you show some doctors where to find some cancer. You just don't know.

[@megelizabeth9492]

Speaking of Good Omens, am I the only one who thinks that Crowley and Micheal would really get each other? The whole idea of “The Good Place”, is exactly Crowley’s style of evil.

[@Grizabeebles]

@@megelizabeth9492 -- As soon as I realized that Michael's big idea was "hell is other people" the show never told another joke that made me laugh harder. I think the Crowley from Good Omens and the Crowley from Supernatural would BOTH get along great with Michael.

[@colinmiller6649]

Finally. I have been waiting so long for you guys to do this. I love this show and I your show. Keep up the fantastic work.

[@BernardoPatino]

13:54 Why is no one talking about the mouthfeel?

[@prashantmodia4219]

Previously whenever someone who was mean to me earlier suddenly treated me right, I would just go cold on them thinking they'll always be like they were before and are presently faking it ! But now every time I think it, Michael comes to my mind n I feel like if a demon could believe that people can get better and can even help them in every way possible then I as a human must definitely give a try to what Michael believes in ....

[@OninRuns]

Finally, someone talking about the mouthfeel!

[@mfits]

This show definitely helped me because I am almost identical to Chidi in decision-not-making and seeing myself in this particular mirror made me work harder on myself. As Samuel Beckett said: "All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better".

[@eliseweusthuis]

Isn’t “moral intuitionism” just empathy?

[@kitthornton2336]

You're half-right (which puts you way ahead of most.) Moral intuitionism is more than empathy, but moral intuitionism is impossible without empathy.

[@lloydy272]

I'm not educated in philosophy but I think you're right. Maybe empathy with action, specifically action that helps. Not sure how unintended consequences get counted. Goodness me this is complex, I'll stick to science for now.

[@laffy7204]

No, the Golden means is an intuitive theory and it doesn't require empathy, but empathy helps. However, in some cases, too much empathy can end up supporting and tolerating jerks who will take advantage of your empathy by taking power or trolling you, or you might just end up trying to help through others struggle even when they clearly don't need your help, or worst, they might be worst off by not confronting their struggles. Empathy has limits too

[@jsveterans6949]

Brony Philosopher -Neato, good to know. Moral of the story? Everything and anything in an extreme is bad?

[@note4note804]

Technically moral intuitionism can actually be better without empathy, as empathy is restricted in many ways to a concern for the individual whereas grand acts of moral right may sacrifice the individual for the greater good. At the same time a restricted empathy can actually help you prioritize your actions to act morally to those you value more, and as a result decrease how empathetic you are in order to be a better person.

[@DamnQuilty]

This is amazing! I love the metaethics and the connection with No exit. Plus the very thing you pointed out about philosophy and practice. Which apart from the obvious discrepancies between theories and actions and the funny as hell rl trolley problem...it also manages to put ethical theory in subtler ways without the need of guiding the audience. Also this comes in time for season 3. I know it is not a popular series and thus not really profitable, but I would love to hear your take on Person of Interest. It is my favorite series after a wholeton of rewatchs and noticing stuff about the plot (the structure the story, the changes, narrative)the many characters(how they are presented, how they change, and their relations with others), and the many views and ideas shown and confronting or supporting one and other during the duration of the series.

[@SgtAntsy9819]

Why is no-one talking about the mouthfeel? ;)

[@mhawang8204]

I was looking for this comment and was not disappointed. Thank you ;)

[@Beatness121]

Yup, that is the only thing I think of when I hear "mouthfeel" now

[@jsveterans6949]

Question: WTF is a mouthfeel? I can take a few guesses, but I would bank on missing the mark...

[@DreamsDragon98]

I might be a fool, but personally, my first exposure to the word "mouthfeel" was in a documentary about traditional Chinese cuisine, especially how it differs from what you might get from, say, a "Chinese take-out" restaurant here in the west. One of the things mentioned was that, in contrast to the west, where most of our interest is on the flavor and presentation of food, China traditionally has a larger focus on interesting "mouthfeel," basically referring to different textures, many of which are unpopular in the west. This was used an explanation for why more traditional Chinese cooking isn't as popular in the west, with what we do get being severely westernized. The documentary is on Netflix, I think it's the first episode of a Netflix Original series of food-based documentaries, but I forget the name. The quote, however, is about the difference between masculine and feminine penises.

[@jsveterans6949]

DreamsDragon98 -First, TY. Well defined. Second, I definitely was off the mark...

[@buppy7282]

I really think this opened a lot of windows for me. I've always thought that faith was believing in doing the right thing because I _wanted_ to do the right thing. Yet was always stumped from the love circles I got myself into, and dumb decisions I made. Angry decisions, and lustful confusion led me to believe maybe I was just a bad person. I didn't know that faith was perhaps wanting to do a bad thing, but then forcing yourself not to because that was _right_ ... I'm not sure how I feel about this realization, but I'm a bit shocked.

[@512TheWolf512]

5:54 that's DEATH PARADE, that is for sure

[@android19willpwn]

they really need to do Death Parade. It's so good.

[@Oxcarthor26]

This video got me into The Good Place and I love it haha thanks Wisecrack!

[@rynegreen7902]

Hey can you do a video of The Venture Bros?

[@ctrouble2309]

That would be fantastic

[@AK907guy]

Go Team Venture!

[@rynegreen7902]

C Trouble I mean they do a video for every freakin Rick and Morty episode.

[@Ignasimp]

Learing ethics is not going to work for everyone to become a better person, but it worked for Eleanor. Specially since she already had a predisposition towards getting better in the first place.

[@lautaromedina9056]

the philosophy of doctor who!

[@jhnshep]

10:28 also the same demon that plays micheal also plays Sam from cheers, so you know, picked up a few things

[@alfonsopayan09]

Helen pass this comment to Jared “So how’s that cowboy bebop video going?” Love you kisses hope to see you more on wisecrack videos Take care

[@oof-rr5nf]

I love it when people frame comments like letters, it is so forking cute

[@JasonT404]

Please do more on this. I binged this show after watching this video. I need more wisecracks!!!

[@aaronjohn6152]

Predestination reminds me,can you do a philosophy on predestination

[@fangal12]

That movie is already a mind f, I'm pretty sure Wisecrack's philosophical breakdown of it would turn my brain into a warm gelatinous puddle of goo

[@kierstengusler8759]

The trolly delemia was used in another show I watched called the greenhouse academy, in that show they talked about emotions and how to be a leader and teamwork it's on Netflix

[@edabakb]

I want Philosophy of Maniac, the new Netflix show.

[@phissure3081]

Awesome vid. I love this show. I would love it if you did a "The Philosophy of GLOW" video. That series has way more to unpack than I was expecting.

[@MrTonyman79]

Watching this video has made me want to watch this show, yet I won't because the twists were revealed. This is called a conundrum...or irony.

[@BadBloodwillout]

it's still funny though, you should give it a try. Plus noone knows what's going to happen in the new season

[@kevincarter2020]

The bad place reveal kicked my ass

[@markkoehr5003]

You should still watch the show. The show is a lot more than just these twists.

[@MrTonyman79]

Ok, I will try it.

[@jsveterans6949]

Ikr, in the search to find out if you would like it you realize you would, had you not pursued the search..

[@edwardrichards8947]

YES! Thank you Wisecrack, I’ve been waiting for this!!

[@thiagosimoes95]

the philosophy of eric andre

[@bella-tt9hk]

thiago s bird up

[@patrickbateman4272]

That calls for some RANCHHHHHHH

[@trentrossdale638]

Yes Eric Andre's philosophy would be wild!

[@schizophonic1479]

I'll drink to that

[@diegocamilo1122]

My favorite video of this channel so far.

[@cbishop41483]

I like this show, especially that they're ACTUALLY in the BAD place!! Awesome!

[@PapaSmurf11182nd]

Spoiler alert bruh

[@wildcatste]

Never saw the parallels with No Exit-but now we can see that the show was really a rebuttal of Satre - what makes them better and makes their life/after life worth while is each other. The instruments of torture (each other) or also the instruments of improvement, feeling worthwhile and loved, and finding meaning.

[@ModestMouseTrap]

mouthfeel.... Was this a reference to Contrapoints?

[@plinioamaral6736]

@Wisecrack, the philosophy of an oldie, but goodie: the games of "The Legend of Zelda". My feeling of Nostalgia would appreciate it. You're the best!

[@tobinbones8577]

hi random person “How you doin’?”

[@uncomfortablecat]

I want to punch your face because you typed that line. You ruined my day.

[@niggajuicextr4623]

Alexander Ham- Wait that’s overused fuck you

[@tobinbones8577]

Everyone hates me 😁

[@r.282]

Im killing myself today

[@hayinka7691]

Thinking whether to commit suicide or get high and masturbate.

[@Wkumar07]

The Good Place is a rare of example of how good the medium of television can be for telling interesting stories.

[@Jingles6466]

YES YES YES YES YES YEEEEEEEEES

[@jsveterans6949]

Great video! Might actually watch the show now... Thanks!