The Pioneer Podcast #16 Why we are conservative... and why you should be too

[@attonrand96]

To be conservative is to be humble. To be ideological is to be arrogant. Wonderful work Ernst.

[@godfreyberry1599]

Thanks for your tireless work Ernst - you are making a positive and enormous difference.

[@ronelltofte1665]

Dit is in die spasie tussen realiteit en ideaal waar n mens behoudend vind en die strewe is om die ewewig te behou. Dankie Mnr Roets. Soos altyd briljant.

[@christineehlers1132]

Yes it is a moral choice or obligation to be conservative. This fosters respect and moral values promoting honesty Godly.

[@francescoludick2811]

Thanks!

[@shirleylincoln2955]

Very well explained.

[@lava_za]

I went from being a quite liberal atheist - to a very conservative capitalist atheist right at the start of the woke awareness and influencers' surfacing

[@willene58]

Baie dankie ...dit is so interessant om die geskiedenis van die wereld ,,die individu se staanplek en waar ons as Afrikaners kan na uitsien.

[@tonymangion6413]

Baie dankie !!

[@tarkantier]

Baie goed! Dankie Ernst.

[@TheKqkk]

awesome

[@RitaHunter-ru1vs]

Brilliant thanks 👍😊

[@fivesolas5752]

Dankie. Hierdie is leersaam. Geweet ek is nie 'n "Liberal", maar kon tot nou toe nie onderskeid tref. En ook. Verseker ons lewe in, soos dinge is.

[@theroadtolife9015]

I think plenty of problems get solved if we live in harmony with nature as well.

[@rinapieterse3006]

Baie interessante bespreking.

[@salomemalherbe677]

Adam was inderdaad die eerste Indivudi, maar beslis nié n Noble Savage nie ... !! En sy 2 hoof take was onmiddelik aan hom oorgedra 1. Vermeerder en hervul die aarde sodat daar families en so gemeenskappe kan wees. 2. Heers ... en onderwerp die aarde. Adam se roeping het nie Koningskap en die hierargieë van Klas ingesluit nie... Nimrod en doe Taal verwarring het daarvoor gesorg. Jou verduideliking is helder en goed deurdag maar jy sal op n stadium die tameletjie van Klas en koningskap deur oorerflike bloedlyn titels met hul gekose Priviledged by Birth Nobility, Teenoor die stelsel van Demokrasie, moet aanspreek!! Want ons as Afrikaners kry swaar onder hierdie ras mal meerderheids ideologie en die verskuilde Elitist Minderheid wat duidelik antagonisties teenoor ons is ....wat deur hulle heers.!!! Konserwatisme is behoudend. Dit is hoekom dit keer op keer deur die eeue weer opstaan as n koersaanwysende realistiese lewensbenadering wat die goeie nastreef.

[@GeorgeMurrayvonWielligh]

Wow! Dankie..... Dit maak baie sin

[@hehehe6810]

Then we need to discuss the nature of things. that will be an interesting chat. Most ppl cant handle that their beliefs might be wrong. true free speech will horrify most of us.

[@DP-ho9if]

To discuss the nature of things is an esoteric exercise, however, as Ernst has alluded, Aristotle was concerned with the "nature of things" metaphysically. I'd also suggest a bit of platonic philosophy as outlined in The Republic. P.s I'm not a philosopher.

[@Ben-l3l4o]

In other words, conservatism is the scientific process, while ideologies are the execution of an untested hypothesis?

[@hansvorste84]

Yes! Tribalism is not racist

[@salomemalherbe677]

Jurie Joubert .. the Banality of Evil is prevelant in all spheres of life.!! Konserwatiewe denkers stry juis daarteen is Dr Roets se standpunt. Want dit is wat Christenskap beteken ... veg vd Goeie

[@juriejoubert7120]

WJAC…was Jesus a conservative…definitely not, so why would his devoted followers not follow suit?

[@ZackDeldenEkblom]

What about love for the environment?

[@janvanaardt3773]

Ek is regs konserwatief

[@M3l_0N666]

As a product of the current age, the last of the millennials. I understand that context is important. And recognise how much others lack, both old and young and it annoys me when societies are uprooted because the sensible few are drowned out by the illogical many. True, change what we can, except what we cant, and be smart enough to know the difference. I do know, not believe, that religion has played a large part on how society was built, and time before science, people needed a way to make sense of the world. We do have science and many great philosophers, my favs being Nietszche, Jung, Kierkegaard, Albert, and so on. And i do think that we can commend religion for its part, but we can now move beyond it. Ad it is quite evident that the Bible cannot keep up in a society where Morality grows ever more complex. Infact the Bible gets its Morality from us, not the other way around. I think Communities and the individual can be better, were they to let go of the old, and embrace the new. Dont limit yourself. It does annoy me when young people face traditional values being thrown onto them, as i see there is more to life than just marrying, having kids and dying. Everyone else does this, over and over. As an example. I am advocating not for absurdity like the woke, but for educated evolution. Basically, 1st principle thinking, among many. The more you learn, the less you realise you know, you realise how trivial much of society is, you realise how limited we are. Nihilism can consume those who have heir heads deep into sea of knowledge, if they arnt careful. Times like these i think, what is better, to feel lost in the small world, or to be oblivious, free from grief in a world you know nothing of. One rewards truth, the other rewards Happyness at the expense of it.

[@nobodygh]

"there is more to life than just marrying, having kids, and dying" I used to think this too, especially in my 20s. However, as I get older, I start seeing more and more how traditional values are there for a reason. "Al die instruksies wat hul vir ons gee... werk, trou, en kinders kry, en moontlik aan depressie ly" lyk my is tog die regte instruksies. Depressie en dood kom vir ons almal, maar met 'n solid family life is dit baie meer hanteerbaar.

[@rudiposthumus7798]

Die verterende haat teen die Christen geloof is redelik duidelik in die kommentaar. Miskien die moeite werd om vir die trolle te verduidelik waarom 'n ateïs moeilik konserwatief kan wees 😂

[@Michael-hm8cs]

The fool says in his heart: "there is no God"

[@lava_za]

You'd be wrong, I know many conservative atheists. And I don't mind you having a belief in god. It's a unproven and unfalsifiable hypothesis. It's dangerous in it's most extreme form - but I'm not worried

[@Michael-hm8cs]

@@lava_za There are many agnostics that are conservative as well. To tie conservatism to a religion is a flaw. Even Islam sees itself as "conservative"

[@richern2717]

"Beproef als maar behou die goeie" Progressive Conservatism ?

[@ZackDeldenEkblom]

Is it okay to be a liberal conservative?

[@rudiposthumus7798]

It is a contradiction in terms. Like being a virtuous criminal. Liberalism is not good - that is the point 😂

[@juriejoubert7120]

@@rudiposthumus7798what about neoliberalism, surely that is okay?

[@salomemalherbe677]

​@@juriejoubert7120 ...😂 Liberalisme laat nie met hom sukkel nie maar is gewoonlik n dyed in the wool fundementalist in sy leefstyl uitkyk en regte

[@nobodygh]

@@juriejoubert7120 neoliberalism is not OK in it's pure ideological form. If you allow businesses a big degree of freedom in their own affairs, then they tend to raise prosperity for all. However, a conservative will have to agree that people are greedy, so there need to be at least some mechanism to keep businesses accountable. Neoliberalism will be against these mechanisms. Conservatives are just finding allies among neoliberal ideologues, because neoliberalism is the opposite of the socialism/planned economy ideology which is currently in power.

[@juriejoubert7120]

⁠@@nobodyghwait…what? Please Dr Roets can you explain what your devotee is trying to get across?

[@CptRumcan]

What do you call someone who just uses logic and common sense 😂

[@juriejoubert7120]

“…conservatives do no see a big difference between how things are and how things ought to be…” Dr Roets. Applying this logic to any real world examples quickly highlights the hopelessness and banality of evil inherent to “conservatism” (as defined above). So Dr. Roets ought my great grandmother have taken this stoic stance as she and her children were being brutalised and starved in British concentration camps during the Anglo-Boer war? Ought every person forcibly removed during Apartheid have just accepted it as some cosmic justice, full capitulation? Ought we have just kept emitting CFC’s and in doing so destroying the ozone layer, because you know, conservatism? Ought we to keep on believing in perpetual economic growth on a finite non growing planet? Ought we take a conservative approach to health interventions, ah, you have disease that can be treated, but let us not attempt to cure it, because conservatism hey? Slavery ought still be around also I suppose? Etc etc…All the equivocation, mostly prevarication, belied by this fundamental proposition.

[@Michael-hm8cs]

Ag, this useless commie again.

[@hantieprins3891]

Conservatism does not exclude any of your concerns .... these are basic values that has to be educated in schools and in our religious institutions.. the problems arise when these values become extremely held rigid ideologies ...when religion also becomes an ideology . Jihad, is one such. Surely G-d would not rejoice in the slaughter of humans by other 'humans'. Being G-d...he would be revolted by such depravity. He does not need protection... Surely he can look after himself? Being G-d and all?! I know how you feel about the concentration camps in S Africa... my family was almost wiped out, and that by a then supposedly civilised people. But the British did make a huge contribution to civilisation. Shall we look at how the Germans allowed themselves to become depraved under a the leadership of Hitler. And that with Germany's huge contribution to civilisation. Their music is unsurpassable! We can only concede the unthinkable ...and that is ...... We are all capable of behaving like that. We are that!! We all have it in us. . We now have to pray for the survival of Britain and Israel. They are now fighting with the rest of the Western world for the survival of Western civilisation. Would that the supine useless government in Westminster wake up and realise that we are already fighting World War Three. They are useless! And America is tottering under a senile President.. exactly at a time when we need a great American President at the helm. If we are not prepared to stand up strongly for what we believe in, then the consequences will be devastating for the the world. It will be a return to the dark ages.. and now we have an atom bomb!!

[@nobodygh]

Tell me you didn't listen to his argument without telling me you didn't listen to his argument...

[@careerlifecoachskillsfacil4535]

As I social scientist in practice, I'm tell you straight to your fave you are talking theory and try to label people accirding to theories but it never work that way to lsvrl people and place them in catagories. Stop explaining yourself to the masses. I tried to share this message when you were perhaps sitting in school desks and I can assure you that in such a diverse complex damaged country like South Africa, you can try all you wish to be exclusively for your own tribe, it won't work. It don't work amongst Africans themselves, so how do you think you and your Solidarity movement will succeed? Surely you habe to do this to collect the millions you do from whites who place the trust in people instead to do what the New Testament tell them to do.

[@francoisdeklerk1266]

No, but you cannot slip religion in there. Religion basically tells us how we "ought to be''. I's an ideology that needs to be rejected.

[@Michael-hm8cs]

He has conflated Christianity with conservatism.

[@francoisdeklerk1266]

@@Michael-hm8cs That's the problem with ideology, it seems so natural to it's followers that they don't recognize it as such

[@juriejoubert7120]

The “conflation” is deliberate, as it is a necessary moral backstop. You see, God is in charge of things and the way things are is a manifestation of his will/plan. To want to change things (we think are wrong or that could be improved upon) is therefore immoral as it acts against Gods’ will/plan. And/Or any act that attemps to change things is futile as God is in total control of everything so why bother. Dr Roets as a policy expert is well aware that policy studies require two fundamental presuppositions, non-nihilism (not all futures are equal) and non-determinism (more than one possible future). Here he basically undermines both of these…for it serves the end of justifying his privilege and the inequality around him.

[@francoisdeklerk1266]

@@juriejoubert7120 Hehe...you're going over my head there 😀But what I'm getting from all this is: The Slave should realize that his position is just the way things are...anything he does to free himself is ideology

[@salomemalherbe677]

Inequality just like the Banality of Evil is a universal given .. rhe Ancient Greek citystate had a group of Elite Families who entertained the Idea of Democracy whilst the vast population of Slaves who served them ... had no say in the matter. The Class structure of Kingship and Priviledged by Birth Nobilty is exactly the same ....Cultural Apartheid I call it because Priviledge for them is a given .... but is it? Marxism tried to eliminate class and failed miserably

[@TshepangMoletsane-l7g]

Then this means I am not and will NOT be a conservative. ILL PASS THIS ONE.

[@lava_za]

Africans generally ain't conservative. They're leaning communist, Marxist. With a strong ideology against conservatism.

[@TshepangMoletsane-l7g]

Hmmm. I see. We must be conservatives and think alike like ants. NO THANKS.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣I rather think like me and have my own values.

[@malanmeyer3860]

Seems that to be conservative requires a Christian worldview. Yet mere conservatism does not encourage the care of outsiders or the most vulnerable. It also does not produce a love and prayer for your enemies.

[@rudiposthumus7798]

And you base your assertion on what? Christian charity has existed since the beginning and is to be preferred instead of government assistance funded through taxation and corrupted by bureaucracy. Conservatives give more than any other group.

[@malanmeyer3860]

​@@rudiposthumus7798Yes, agreed. True charity comes from the heart. That is why state compelled charity (communism) is theft and anti-Christian. My point was to warn against a Christless conservatism.

[@nobodygh]

That is not even remotely true. Get off the internet, touch some grass, and go find some IRL conservative Christians. You will find that we do care for outsiders and vulnerable people. Sometimes at great personal cost. We just want to keep the slow, inefficient (and often corrupt) government bureaucracies out of that process.

[@malanmeyer3860]

@@nobodygh Read my comment again. The word "mere" is very important. I think you and I are on the same page. I am in a conservative church and I serve in a crucial committee in the congregation. My point was that the only basis for a good conservativism is where the crown rights of Jesus are recognised in every part of our lives. God bless you.

[@nobodygh]

@@malanmeyer3860 fair enough. I misread your statement. Keep up the good work. Christ is King!

[@lm8198-b5m]

Self-defeating argument. An ideology against ideologies 😂.

[@Ben-l3l4o]

The choice of the scientific method over the elevation of a hypothesis.

[@PeterSamuelsson-m7v]

@@Ben-l3l4o You clearly don't understand what he was talking about.

[@PeterSamuelsson-m7v]

Sorry Ben. That wasn't aimed at you.

[@GlenFarmer-c6i]

Self defeating argument how? Conservatives build the world that exists even China, Russia are very conservative and has governments promoting it!!! Both of them are protecting their cultures, reject woke ideologies and both has massively grown economically in the last 20 years!!! Conservatives loves to invent, preserve, grow etc.. look at Orania against all odds and hate they're the safest place in Africa, tell me 1 black place with all your "smart" ideologies" that you've build? Litterally nothing!!!

[@GlenFarmer-c6i]

You are here in a conservative channel not to learn but to hate, your ideologies and love centres around Witchcraft, entitlement, chaos etc... you people are the destructive force of this planet, but big apartheid is coming where most of you would be in hell...

[@ross7901]

Today, if you deny election results, like Donald Trump, like Jacob Zuma, you are a conservative.

[@godfreyberry1599]

Lost the plot. How on earth can you use Trump and Zuma in the same sentence?.

[@ross7901]

​@@godfreyberry1599 Both refused to acknowledge election results - one of the most dangerous threats to democracy is to delegitimize them. Any conservative worth their salt should grasp that.