The Problem With Minecraft: Java Edition

Minecraft Java Edition has been having a serious problem for many years. It is the reason why many players have either stopped playing new updates, or switched over to Bedrock Edition.
It is the reason why the game is so laggy, and why players rely on mods like Optifine and Sodium, when they shouldn't have to.
In this video, we talk about the performance issues with Minecraft Java, and how it will affect the future of the game.
Credit:
LazyDFU Demonstration - • Minecraft - the differ...
Xisumavoid Video on Modding - • Why Cant Mojang Develo...
Minecraft Vanilla vs Optifine Post - / minecraft_vanilla_vs_o...
Optifine FAQ Section - www.optifine.net/faq
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Fizzy Banger

[@FizzyBanger]

Hope you enjoyed this video! Now, I have given credit to some key sources for this video, which you can check in the description. A lot of this wouldn't be possible without the people who've pointed out Java Edition's problems before me. That being said, the game is still really fun, I'm still really excited for 1.20 and beyond. But I just hope I won't have to wait for Optifine to update to the latest version before I can enjoy the new features. And I hope those who mod their game do so from official sources :)

[@JHak909]

Personally I would complain about the performance too, if it wasn't for the fact that I play on a really god awful laptop, so I'm not saying anything lol. I'm just glad that these mods even exist

[@FizzyBanger]

I think hardware is a big reason for a lot of the performance issue complaints online. Minecraft is not as simple a game as it once was. Hardware requirements go up with each update.

[@HintzeDarrin]

why can't they improve the game like they have on bedrock that's the main reason I haven't switched to Java edition

[@atrocium]

@@HintzeDarrin the thing is, bedrock is only so simplistic because of the amount of unsolved bugs they leave in. it's meant to be slow/buggy so smaller and less powerful devices can run it/

[@philipjeffrey2926]

@@HintzeDarrin there are things in Bedrock such as chunk loading errors that Mojang refused to fix for some reason.

[@JHak909]

Fun fact: Mojang has tried to add Optifine officially into the game, but the reason it was never added was because the creator didn't agree to it being added.

[@masterdeetectiv9520]

There were issues on what to do with the optifine capes

[@FizzyBanger]

Yeah, I watched TheMisterEpic's video on Optifine and learned all about the deal they tried to broker. Really interesting, and it was a bit silly for it to fall through because of some donor capes, but maybe it was for the best

[@L7ingo]

Not to mention Minecraft wanted to add certain features, which Optifine refused cause they rather Minecraft have *all* features

[@clancysleepovergetyourblankies]

Not like optifine doesn't cause issues by itself

[@emilydavidson8844]

@@clancysleepovergetyourblankies lol true

[@lasercraft32]

So really one of the biggest problems is that IF they tried to improve the performance people would just complain that they didn't add anything. -Kinda like they did with the Bees and Bugs update...-

[@lasercraft32]

@Jeff You said it. Even the Wild Update added a lot but people hated it because it didn't have _as much_ stuff as we thought it would.

[@lasercraft32]

@@user-nq6wn4hm7s Honestly, people having been waiting for the experimental combat changes to be added for real so that would be the perfect opportunity to make optimizations to the game while keeping people satisfied.

[@user-nq6wn4hm7s]

@@lasercraft32 yeah, experimental combat is great, i'd like to see it in actual update, i'm very upset that mojang screw it

[@rudrodeepchatterjee]

I agree. While people do keep requesting, and I quote, "Dedicate an update to only bugfixes and performance changes and no new features", the moment Mojang reduces new content to dedicate time to fixes, they complain. An example is 1.20 itself. So far, we have had a decent lot of features. With them came a lot of fixes to old bugs, especially on bedrock. While people did compliment these efforts, they were shoved under the rug quickly. Now people are complaining 1.20 to be an underwhelming update, only a smidge better than 1.19.

[@rudrodeepchatterjee]

@Jeff exactly. They either: 1) Ask for stuff that's just too excessive and unreal to be added. Their suggestions are too modded for the minecraft-ey feel, and then when stuff like Armor Trims get added, adding nothing but colour to vanilla Armor, they say it feels modded, because they saw Philza using it as a mod. Or 2) They ask for stuff, get what they want, maybe a feature or two more, but then pull out the "not enough features for an update's worth" or "not as good as 1.16" card.

[@enchanted_games]

1.19.4 was insane in terms of performance improvements, it basically added the same optimisation that lazyDFU does into the vanilla game and there’s almost no lag spikes (for me at least) when chunk builder is on threaded. I’m still going to be using sodium but it just shows mojang is going in the right direction

[@FizzyBanger]

Having just seen the new update, I'm actually impressed that Mojang did improvements to DFU initialization. Didn't even know 1.19.4 was being released, it must have rolled out pretty quickly.

[@enchanted_games]

@@FizzyBanger not many people really talked about it cuz it was mostly technical changes. Also I forgot to mention resourcepacks load extremely fast in 1.19.4 compared to 1.19.2 because of the improvements to atlases

[@ChillJoe2002]

Since Mojang said that they will be putting out multiple minor updates every few months between the major updates, I'm hoping that they use them to slowly improve performance.

[@philipjeffrey2926]

@@FizzyBanger your video is pointless now lol.

[@mbcommandnerd]

@@FizzyBanger I was just about to ask if you’d seen 1.19.4 yet, as this video is now effectively useless. Mojang is finally listening to us!

[@iampet3r388]

I absolutely agree you have to download at least 6 performance mods to make the game playable and still if you fly with elytra into chunks that you havent visited yet, the game will still render them very poorly.

[@PaladinZaego]

And this is why I play Bedrock nowadays. I don't want to go through the headache of installing and worrying over possibly unupdated mods conflicting with each other, just to play a game I paid hard-earned money for.

[@Cronalixz]

​@@PaladinZaego If this was like 5 years ago I would agree with you, but bedrock is on par with Java in terms of lag now. And it doesn't have any mods to make up for it. Bedrock is now most definitely a very inferior obsolete version

[@pugorilla8848]

​@@Cronalixz I played bedrock from 2016 to 2022. I got my first Windows device with a GTX 1650m in 2021. The only thing that helps is throwing more CPU and GPU at the game

[@lucidstudious750]

​@@Cronalixz I didn't even notice lol. I play pocket edition and yes it lags sometimes but that's if I load too much shi in one place. Last time I played java I well didn't play it was unplayable lol

[@stupidhind2627]

Did you tried running multi-threading rendering on sodium? I got no such problem as you describing and i dont have greatest cpu in the world, so it helped me, may help you

[@JHak909]

I think "The problem with Bedrock Edition" video is fitting as a continuation. This is a really well built and detailed video, and Bedrock is worth mentioning too.

[@FizzyBanger]

Agreed. It'd be most respectful for me to address both sides. I just need to actually learn more about Bedrock edition because I hardly play it

[@JHak909]

@@FizzyBanger i saw a guy called Stryxo talk about bedrock really well before, he played the game and did an analysis on the game based on his experience, worth checking out. And just to clarify, there is a lot more to mention other than just what he mentioned

[@8crafter]

@@FizzyBanger well it wouldn't be exactly fitting because bedrock edition runs great on my 8 year old acer aspire xc-703 desktop pc even before I upgraded it from 4 to 8 gb of ram, but java edition runs HORRIBLY even with optifine and 8gb of ram with one giant lag spike when I join a server / world, and 20 fps, and occasional lag spikes. And when it was on 4 gb of ram java edition had multiple HUGE lag spikes when joining, constant lag spikes every 3-10 seconds that lasted anywhere from half a second to a WHOLE MINUTE, and usually was at around 10 fps or 0 fps. (THAT INCLUDES single player. ) so bedrock edition has AMAZING performance while java edition has terrible performance even with optifine

[@8crafter]

also that pc has NO graphics card and a PENTIUM cpu

[@8crafter]

@@FizzyBanger well try running bedrock edition on the WORST PC u can find, as long as u set anti-aliasing to 1 then bedrock edition will run great on it(though if it is really bad then it would run better on the Nintendo switch though it would be entirely playable and no lag(setting anti-aliasing to 1 is just to remove input delay if u don't have a graphics card. ))

[@joeyreinhart8820]

FYI, lazydfu isn't needed in 1.19.4 IIRC, since Mojang improved the vanilla DFU loading to just a few milliseconds, so it doesn't need to be lazy loaded anymore

[@virus5600]

Thoughts on this as someone who knows programming and Java: I believe it was stated before (forgot where) that the Java code base is a mess and a complete spaghetti code during its early days. I believe that's also the reason why the terrain generation for the Caves and Cliffs update has taken too long, since they have to rework the entire code base of that feature, along with various rendering optimizations. Don't get me wrong, I'm not protecting them, but if they really did want to optimize the game, they could; it would only take more than a year or two as the code base was done by the "Old Mojang" and thus, needs to be studied, analyzed, and grasp completely before they can touch it. One wrong code and it may spell doom for the entire game as it could lead to various rendering glitches and other similar stuff. Furthermore, the game (I think) still uses the old OpenGL library used by Notch and their team. Sure, they can update that but it's a freaking tedious task to update libraries or frameworks as you'll have to manually check all the codes you have to update the methods and variables that were changed. TL;DR: Optimization is possible but will take a very long time due to how the code base was programmed.

[@craftguyl3307]

How do mods improve the game then?

[@virus5600]

Haven't seen a source code for one so I really can't say. I mean, I'm just a new modder as well and just learning how the mod loaders such as forge, fabric, etc, work. I'll get back to the question within this month after I do a scan from either sodium or Optifine to further explain how they work.

[@shauas4224]

@@craftguyl3307 again, mojang can't add some optimization and then if it completely crashes the game just delete it, they should develop perfect solution and it takes time like one said. But they definitely could do this and I hope they do

[@themonk7383]

@@craftguyl3307 When they do, it comes at a cost. Especially because it's Java, I worked with Java a few times and it can become quite messy, and remember, they want to make the game modifiable too

[@Neongreensniper]

@@craftguyl3307 Mods add code on top of the game and change it, but what op is talking about is changing the engine. Think about it this way, mods are a more aerodynamic chassis for the car, but at the end of the day it's still limited by the engine. What op is talking about is putting a new engine in the car, which would have a lot more impact than any of the mods. However, it could break a lot of them too and as op said it takes a lot of time.

[@foznoth]

I think Mojang bringing Gnembon on to the team may be something to do with this. He has a deep understanding of the inner workings and with Carpet, how to mess around with bits. It's a different, outsider's view of the workings that may help. Either that or they just really liked his accent.

[@muramasa870]

Who is gnembon

[@chickens-yt]

​@Muramasa he's a high tech minecraft modder. Very intelligent youtuber.

[@HekateMGO]

@@muramasa870 a SciCraft member and former computer science professor before he became a game developer.

[@RedIvation]

Mojang is slowly improving the performance of Java Edition. Like in the *Cave* *&* *Cliffs* update, maybe they don't improve the performance all at once is because if they made a huge update the performance may decrease again so they do it slowly in each up which makes the make perform the same as the previous update.

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

minecraft is boring now

[@legitbox]

dies in server performance

[@plumaloy]

​@@LavaCreeperPeople sorry to hear that

[@CrapZackGames]

​@@LavaCreeperPeople Play other games and when you come back to Minecraft after a while you'll like it more

[@dubl33_27]

ever since 1.12, the game performance only got worse for me, even with the "performance improvements", I need to have the optimization mods to be able to play 1.19 with a playable framerate, and my pc is from 2017

[@me-myself-i787]

Last time they dedicated an update to optimization (the 1.15 Buzzy Bees update), the community was very disappointed. It won't happen again.

[@user-nq6wn4hm7s]

i liked that update

[@steveminecraft5887]

I see why they would be disappointed. If mojang spent an entire update dedicated to optimizing the game and adding a small amount of content, then shouldn't this video not have to be made in the first place?

[@leochangesnames]

@@pringle409 I know several people that were locked out of modern minecraft when 1.14 happened, and 1.15 is what let them back in Yes, it's not 1.8, but at least it made the game a lot more playable

[@rudrodeepchatterjee]

@@steveminecraft5887 I understand what you are saying. But there have been updates like 1.16 and 1.18 adding a buttload of new features. In a game with a small number of features, adding one new features can cause a number of issues, however after 4 updates bringing with them even more stuff, adding just one feature can cause an even greater number of issues. Also, major world generation changes were mostly done after the bees update.

[@Cronalixz]

That's because it didn't improve anything. It just reverted changes from 1.14 that hindered performance. Mojang has been doing kind of the bare minimum in terms of performance for years and it has backfired now

[@silverace_71]

One of the main reasons why they aren't able to implement this stuff is the modding platforms/how jumbled the source code is. Looking at fabric, people are given tools and stuff to build around and slightly into the game. However looking at Minecraft source code, it's apparent that the games code wasn't organized and as a result it just got worse. That's why they redid it in C+ as bedrock edition. (Bugrock lol)

[@electronnuclear]

It's not that the source code isn't organised. It's just that the algorithms they use aren't optimal like most game companies do. The same applies to bedrock edition. If bedrock had a "well organised" source code, it wouldn't be having bugs. The reason it performs better is just bcz it was written in C++. And messing up in C++ is very easy as it's a complex language.

[@Bedic-Mag]

You have no idea what you're on about. They wrote Before in c++ because it's ALOT better to code an optimised game in c++ than Java. Remember, everything in Bedrock needs to run on mobile too.

[@beefox__]

something i feel is not talked about a lot because people just never noticed it is that 1.18 had HUGE client lag improvements over 1.17, but due to the world height increasing at the same time, it looks about the same. 1.17 did however have a feature that allowed data packs to change world size. i played on a 384 height world in 1.17 using a datapack, and it was so laggy i could rarely even pause the game. now i play every day and even stream with that same world height using 1.18+ to not consider the world height changes between those versions is to give bias towards 1.17. and to ignore just how much optimization went into 1.18

[@dylanupton]

They actually released 1.19.4 this past week which finally fixes the game load time! No more lazydfu mod necessary, thank goodness.

[@masterdeetectiv9520]

Im pretty sure 1.15 was the optimisation update. They needed to do it because of the beefy nether update. Also iirc mojang was going to work with optifine to incorporate it into vanilla but they couldnt agree on what to do with the optifine capes so it went nowhere

[@gamerbeginner5019]

Yeah some reason community hate this update

[@blacklight683]

Minecraft was simple and while it's nice to have new stuff it's making things complicated and slow, we need atleast preformens updates every now and then

[@NoobRager]

This is just a theory, but it's possible that because the Mojang staff most likely have incredibly high-end PCs, they may not notice various random lag spikes as much as your average Minecraft player. This could be part of the reason why they haven't made as many changes to Java's performance.

[@xanlord2k]

That would mean they have horrible QA.

[@900ug]

that's actually terrible if it is the case. minecraft seems like one of those games where in the future you'll need an expensive ass high end PC in order to even run it at 60fps max. hopefully they fix SOMETHING

[@Savariable]

In my opinion, what I want to see for a Minecraft update isn't simply a performance update. Performance would be a part of it, but in general I feel what Minecraft needs is a parity update. Weird differences between versions like bedrock not animating skeleton bows, java not animating drowned swimming, the drowned spawn rates being really bad in opposite ways, bedrock pistons moving containers, java redstone being actually functional, cakes being stackable on bedrock, and bedrock also needs a more useful offhand or at least the ability to put tools in there so mending can be used better. Just focus on more parity like that alongside optimization along the way, and best case scenario, return to the experimental combat snapshots and try to actually finalize those as well. Basically: parity, optimizations, and combat (which is arguably part of parity, a parity update would need a compromise on the combat system) would make for an actually great update, and I don't think there'd be as much resistance against it as 1.15, because while we wouldn't be getting new features, players using 1 version will get interesting stuff that for some reason is exclusive to the other, and there'd be less weird differences between versions for people who play both.

[@cleverman383]

why does it matter if there's parity?

[@xenird]

@@cleverman383 It doesn't, ignore that argument. The rest is facts.

[@Op37373]

​​@@cleverman383 off hand on bedrock can't be good cus touchscreen

[@cleverman383]

@@Op37373 what if you just had a spot on the screen to press to swap hands?

[@Op37373]

@@cleverman383 idk I don't play mobile it's just that bedrock has to be the same on all platforms so us on pc and console can't have off hand

[@ImDaRealBoi]

What I hope to see in the future is not just performance, but a quality of life expansion. We're already seeing improvements in signs, map making, and other things along with the performance upgrades; so making the game feel better all around should be a focus at some point, drop small quality of life packages along with performance updates Oh yeah, I play with sodium (after ditchign forge modding) and it is INCREDIBLY stable. I can see it being implemented into the game because it adds few additional features (like the optifine capes and zoom) but refines the base game

[@Capiosus]

“fast render engine” could be an option in settings menu to start pushing optimizations to vanilla w/o breaking anyone’s game (dedicating an update is actually a really good idea cause it gives enough time to iron out the bugs and perhaps add fancy shader style shadows to minecraft vanilla)

[@kingendercat]

I have actually experienced major lag spikes like the ones described in this video! Now I finally know what it is!

[@memearella]

I feel like no matter what this issue will always be reached at some point due to the fact that more stuff keeps getting added and they have the ability to do that because technology in the real world is constantly being improved on allowing games to have more stuff in it due to being able to handle it, so if you have an older pc the problems with quality are just waaaay more noticeable and common

[@RogatkaWR]

I feel like if Mojang does end up wanting to optimize the game, they should either implement the performance fixes over multiple updates, or they should do it in one update, but not entirely focus on performance as the main part of the update. This way, new features are still being released while the performance increases. I usually play on 1.12.2 and lower just so that I don't see these performance issues, even though I have OptiFine and Sodium. They can help with the overall FPS on newer versions, but I can't keep my render distance above 8 chunks or I get lag spikes, most likely due to having to load chunks while moving around. I don't feel like I should have to mod my game to fix performance, especially if I'm on a high-end laptop. Sorry for the wordiness, but this has been on my mind for months. Thank you for addressing the topic!

[@ModBros8434]

Comparing the work environment for both modders and Mojang might give some insight. For example, modders are able to hyper-focus on one specific area of the game, and have no obligation to quality control. Mojang has to keep everything polished and consider its impact on the game, and they’ve got to have their priorities perfectly straight.

[@Dankos256]

Yes, but actually no :) Considering the quantity and types of bugs that are currently in the game, I would say their commitment to quality is more wishful thinking than real work and QA processes being put in place. And while I agree that there is a huge difference between working on your own as a modder vs working for a company, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that stops Mojang for hiring "clienside rendring guy" or "main simulation loop guy" to analyse, clean up, fix, improve and document these areas of the codebase.

[@ModBros8434]

@@Dankos256 I think I see your point to some extent. I think they do have someone who's sole job is optimization on the team. I'd like to point out that a cooperate workplace is a very complex environment, so the best solution is not often the most obvious one, and some things can be infeasible for rather obscure and complex reasons

[@H0t3lYT]

Finally, he uploaded again

[@QuinceTart10]

I forgot this was even a thing, because I use performance mods all the time. I don't even make my own modpacks anymore, I just download Fabulously Optimized, add 2 mods (custom skin server + 3d skins), add a custom config and then just set it up like normal.

[@evergreengamer5767]

Find it interesting how wildly javas performance varies system to system, newer versions run great on this rather old ivybridge xeon with or w/o optifine but recently have been playing in 1.14 world and it is prone to random lag spikes. Though it does seem Mojang is aware of the inconsistency since telemetry is collecting system performance metrics.

[@MonocleMC]

Minecraft's performance got worse when they changed the world limit. If I jump back to 1.16.5, it's really smooth, with no mods. I get an average of 200fps on the base game, but still get lag spikes. Mojang really need to fix this.

[@FizzyBanger]

Yeah, performance is degrading with each update. I miss the smoothness in gameplay from 1.13 to 1.16. Those were the times when I could reasonably handle Minecraft with shaders and 60fps. Not anymore :')

[@ross3695_basedhax]

chopped off the bottom half of the underground with a world editor

[@user-jc3fr7vn7x]

@@FizzyBanger lol people complained that 1.13 and 14 are so performance poor comparing to 1.12 which is true I guess in 5 years people will say "when I launch 1.19 and it's so smooth and fast, I miss the ol days of Minecraft!!!"

[@gabor6200]

@@user-jc3fr7vn7x Yeah pretty sure 1.13 and 1.14 were terrible in terms of performance which they mostly fixed in later updates. People just generally don't care about anything other than tangible additions and don't really bother to check the actual patch notes.

[@user-jc3fr7vn7x]

@@gabor6200 nah 1.15 and 1.16 were not even close to 1.12.2 Yes no one cares unless you open the laggy game

[@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth]

Something to keep in mind: Mojang's Minecraft dev team is quite small. Smaller than a few of the mod teams, even. It's how they can afford to keep freely updating the game, and it's why they put so much effort into ensuring they allocate resources in important directions via community feedback. Optimizing a game as old as Minecraft can be quite tricky, and while absolutely doable, it would require Mojang slow down on developing and implementing new content. Thus while doing so would benefit the game more than a new biome or mob, it would anger a majority of the consumer base that has grown accustomed to their stream of content. Just look at the response when they had to split C&C into two parts specifically because the new terrain generation demanded greater optimization.

[@愛]

they could add sodiums optimizations to the game through a checkbox in the video settings and a warning of possible render issues

[@sebban0011]

I downloaded a mod called Modern Beta which basically makes the overworld generate terrain like it would do in beta 1.7.3, but I have access to all 1.19 stuffs and features. But because the old world terrain doesn't have too much in it in the overworld, I get about 600-1000 frames per second wherever I move. If I play normal 1.19 with all the bland terrains, I get like 200 frames with Optifine...

[@kingofstrike1234]

also dl-ing files can make your pc use more stuff like ram and storage that most of pc gamers / kids play with low / budget component

[@MinedCube]

He might posting once a month but he never disappoints with his videos

[@joel9104]

Good things come to those who wait

[@FizzyBanger]

I need to post more videos :(( I really think you guys deserve an epic, 20 minute long video or something, just to make up for my lazy schedule.

[@MinedCube]

@@FizzyBanger You don't have to push your self mate. Fewer videos with quality

[@alexthetiger7806]

I have had some major issues with lag since upgrading from 1.16 to 1.18 last summer. At first, I was trying everything, such as moving my worlds I wasn't using out of my Minecraft folder, lowering all of my settings as low as possible, and making sure to close every other program when playing. And playing with the lowest specs possible wasn't fun, especially when still getting lag spikes. I couldn't play the game. I couldn't do things like explore caves because getting into a fight with a bunch of skellies when you freeze every 5 seconds is a challenge I didn't sign up for. Thankfully, most issues with this have been solved with re-installing Optifine. I'm also fortunate that I have a mid-specs PC, or it could be much worse. I really think that Mojang should do more about optimizing performance in 1.20. I wouldn't theme a whole update for it because I agree, it would be a lackluster update to many. But just slowly introduce some tweaks to the game in the next few updates that really help performance. Some things there should be mods for, and some things should just be in the base game. Performance is definitely one of the things that should be in the game.

[@crimsondragon1794]

i think they should hire a team to do specifically optimizations in sub updates. while the main team works on the main features. so optimized game could be listed in something like 1.20.1 for example. (doubtful that will happen honestly)

[@emilyisoffline]

lets gooo new fizzy video- been here from 500 subs!

[@FizzyBanger]

wow, I'm really blessed to know that anyone from that early subscribed to the channel. Hope you enjoy the new content, because it's definitely different from when I started :)

[@irwanmanurung8469]

Cheers mate🍻

[@samanthaofcatarina]

The modding community 100% carries Java edition, if it weren't for them we'd probably only have updates on the bedrock edition

[@facts1976]

Facts

[@X__mello__X]

for me personally since 1.18 update it's been harder to play the game without mods specially when optifine doesn't come out that early but since the day I heard optifine was even before these new updates I just downloaded it not for just the performance improvements, also the features and details that it added but I agree that the player that just wants to play the game shouldn't have to download mods in order to be able to play the game Great Video!❤

[@Knarfy]

Every modpack I build nowadays has to include sodium 😂 W video 👏👏

[@legitbox]

i switched to bedrock modding and server development due to java server performance turning to aids, and bedrock modding and server tools actually getting way better,the only problem is getting players to the server or distribute mods so other people could enjoy it

[@philipjeffrey2926]

Bedrock also has many problems that Mojang just isn't fixing.

[@IAm-zo1bo]

Bedrock is too limited

[@legitbox]

@@IAm-zo1bo 1. its on all platforms essencially 2. amazing modding support 3. stupidly good performance where is the “too limiting” part

[@IAm-zo1bo]

@@legitbox bro the mod support is not better and if you mean microsoft gives you tools, java has better community tools instead of being forced to use their own tools. So mods are more limited and there are just less options that you can change to your liking.

[@legitbox]

@@IAm-zo1bo first of all nobody is enforcing the mod tools microsoft gives to you, while yes, the modding tools and the community is in its infancy, i myself cannot deny that its getting better and more advanced every day

[@dark_elf_wizard]

06:50 i do never use mods to make my game get more fps, just change some settings and the game will run fine. (i do not have a weak pc but also not a power full one.)

[@icecreamjunkie6790]

Today I loaded up a few older versions to try out some seeds, and I forgot how much better the game used to run. Even as recently as 1.16, worlds loaded so much faster. But even earlier versions had way better frame rates.

[@Pinecone6442]

This is true, every time I update my version, I must wait for sodium and all the other fps mods to update so I can use it.

[@MrShourin]

Optifine has been going down hill lately. Even they have bugs they will not fix. Optifine is incompatible with most other mods now like twilight forest.

[@echoingforest]

y'all play java and bedrock edition? me and my homies play legacy console

[@FizzyBanger]

honestly, that's a vibe. I miss playing xbox 360 split screen Minecraft

[@philipjeffrey2926]

Legacy console is the GOAT

[@railroading]

They really should try LOD, mods like CubicChunks use this and it is possible to render the whole world like this if done right, while still playable.

[@Reverendhero]

I have a pretty high end pc and generally I don’t experience lag even on a modpack with 300 mods, but that changes when I explore. Anytime I load new chunks the game struggles quite a bit

[@kvasir1]

this is kinda true, and you shined the light onto the problem accurately. Mojang really needs to step up their game.

[@stratejic1020]

And they would if it was really something they could fix

[@aivinjinu4886]

I was hoping that you would also adress the issue of recent Java updates, for me personally, my interest towards the game dropped in the recent updates especially when they changed the world creation menu to match the style of bedrock, I very much prefer the old menu. Their actions to merge Java and bedrock, drove me to quit playing the game. It won't be long when we have to pay to install mods into Minecraft or they would make some kind of Subscription only Features

[@h-Films]

the world creation menu is different, but nothing like bedrock still.

[@D_Evelyn_cat]

I dont know if mojang actually did this, but i think they are in "technical debt" which means that they just kept adding codes that should be fixing codes that were supposed to fix another bug that caused these perfomance bugs instead of re-writing the codes. Its like putting a rug on ta dirty floor and then putting another rug on the that other older rug instead of just cleaning the floor

[@soos.mpvier3187]

well there was already the bugs and bees update where they tried to improve the user experience, they fixed a lot of bugs and improved performance significantly. but the community didn't like that update and thats a reason why i think they will not do another performance centered update in the near future.

[@Something42068]

I9-13900KS, GeekForce RTX 4090, 128GB DDR5 and I still get 21 FPS 💀

[@SERS0998]

Impossible

[@noatouw]

POV: you are a bedrock player 😴🥱😁

[@duTrexIt]

True power

[@Nocommentsuwu]

​@@duTrexItTure idiot power 😂

[@DMystic1]

as someone with a potato for a pc, i thought this was just my computer being ass. however, seeing that it is not only me really made me realize how right you were in every aspect. as i play minecraft i have horrible fps that makes building/moving difficult, the chunk generation is horrible and sometimes i can in a completely unloaded chunk floating for a couple of minutes till it renders. not to mention how minecraft uses literally 90-99% of my GPU's power and makes anything else on my computer undoable. i hope mojang does quickly take action to make minecraft more playable since i cannot install mods for whatever reason and have to use all the minimal settings to play smoothly

[@quarts5519]

for your gpu problem i recommend using vsync

[@DennisRyu]

Well working in a software company I know one of the answers is probably prioritization. Each issue usually gets a prio assigned to it and the most pressing ones are send to the development team. So low performance would be a high prio issue, but the fact that mods exist that improve that for a large amount of players makes the issue less pressing and other tasks will be worked on before that. So the short answer probably is because of these mods the developers can work on other things. But don't forget that MC lives of and embraces modding in a way that not many games do. Finding players that play without any mods at all is probably a rarity these days.

[@zea_64]

It's probably not as simple as taking code from mods because of licensing issues. For instance, Sodium is licensed under LGPL-3.0, meaning Mojang would have to make public and changes they make to that code, which probably means they'd need to publish a lot of Minecraft code. I think there's some legal precedent for not-quite copying: if developers look at the general concept of code and copy that, that's a copyright violation, so they'd still need to respect the license.

[@MitraElectronics]

Yup indeed.

[@willowshake023]

I always thought that lag spikes while chunk loading in my singleplayer world was the problem with my PC exclusively, turns out not really

[@daven4297]

I've had a huge problem for a few days. It all probably started after the last launcher update. The game started sometimes and sometimes didn't, and "exit code: 1" appeared, and sometimes my computer restarted. However, we still managed to play occasionally for a few days. I have been playing for 4 years on version 1.16.5 with a permanent, unchanged mod pack. A few days ago it stopped turning on at all. All attempts ended with a computer reset. I uninstalled all mods except forge 36.2.39. Minecraft has started. I started adding one mod at a time. It turned out that the culprit was Inventory Tweaks. The game started for me with all the other mods. Today I tried to look for a similar mod to inventory tweaks. I found inventory profiles next. I installed it. Exit code 1 popped up. I deleted it again. The game stopped starting. I removed all mods except forge mod. The game does not start. I tried running clean version 1.16.5 without forge mod. The game does not start. I deleted all minecraft and reinstalled it. I ran 1.16.5 vanilla. I repeated the operation several times, because sometimes the game started and sometimes the computer was reset. I decided to install several other versions of forge 36.2.20, 36.2.29, 36.2.39, 36.2.34. Similar effect. I installed java 17. The effect is the same. Now I can't even run pure Minecraft 1.16.5 because it freezes and resets my computer. I don't know what to do anymore. The most interesting thing is that on the second, older computer, where the same minecraft 1.16.5 and the same mods are installed. To be sure, I only removed this inventory tweaks mod. The game starts. The difference between the computers is that the old one still has Win 7 (I have Win10) and the launcher has not been updated. (I play on the server with my daughter, so that's why I have the same Minecraft). Now we can't play together because I can't run minecraft with mods on my computer in any way. Can anyone help? I don't know what to do anymore, especially since vanilla doesn't even start. Please HELP. PS. The serwer on my computer also dont start. When I click start, then freeze windows and reset hole komputer.

[@8crafter]

even with optifine my 8 year old acer aspire xc-703 desktop pc has constant lag spikes and around 10 fps and has a giant lag spike when joining a server / world, and even after upgrading from 4 to 8 gb of ram it is only slightly better where there is still the giant lag spike when joining but very few lag spikes after that and around 20 fps, but bedrock edition runs GREAT on it.

[@thelemonsheep7257]

essentially: java edition has a problem because its coded in java

[@Figonometry]

The language itself is fine, no better or worse than C++ like what's used for bedrock, the problems will always lie in how the people coding it order and execute things.

[@Samstercraft77]

nah, a modpack called gtnh with hundreds of mods with thousands of times the content and progression gets way more fps than vanilla minecraft. this is mojang being completely incompetent.

[@electronnuclear]

It's true that Java executes slower than C++, but it's not the case here. For the current size of Minecraft as a game, it should perform much better than it is performing now. The only reason I could think of is that they haven't used optimal algorithms like most game industries do. The same applies to bedrock as we encounter bugs and also the fact that bedrock is multithreaded . Also Java is a popular language in the field of software development and this the reason there are a lot of mods for Java.

[@thelemonsheep7257]

Can you all calm down it was a bloody joke

[@Samstercraft77]

@@thelemonsheep7257 jokes tend to have an indication that they are a joke. there’s plenty of people who don’t understand things like it being coded in Java isn’t the issue and if someone says something like that we can’t always know it was joke, so we try to help them understand :)

[@fx-modding]

As a performance mod developer, and developer for a very large client. I can explain some of the behind the scene reasons why its harder for Mojang to add optimizations. 1) Development process Software development is usually done using Git, I'm not going to get into the technical's. However lets say two developers are working on separate optimizations, optimizations usually require large reworks of code across the codebase. The problem is that these changes are going to conflict, and you will need to fix that, its not that hard... until you have 30 people doing it at the same time. It can get really messy, and hard to maintain. The only real solution is to split parts of the game into libraries, allowing you to make changes to a separate project without conflicts. However it will nearly always come at a cost, which is usually performance or flexibility. 2) Maintainability Code can be really hard to maintain. Writing good maintainable code takes a lot more time and effort, you need to think about the future. What features might this need in the future, how could I write it to support all my goals and dreams. This can come at a slight performance cost, however the flexibility is usually worth it. For example, in 1.13 Mojang changes the way blocks are stored and saved, since in 1.12 they where limited to a specific amount of block ID's. However now its infinite, which is crucial for continued development of the game. (however it did come at a performance cost) Optimizations usually result in the code being hard to read and understand, and it takes some getting use to and good documentation. Which costs more time, and effort. Plus you need to think about these optimizations when adding changes, which makes it harder to maintain. 3) Marketability You already mentioned this so ill skim through it. Mojang makes money on content, not performance. So mojang will only optimize the game to a point where its slightly below average users can play fine. It's not worth the time, effort, and maintainability to support these client. Plus there are mods & clients that can do it for them, and clients have there own development teams that will keep them maintained. 4) They are optimizing the game! Mojang actually writes tons of optimizations, and they are usually incredible performance gains. However you usually never notice them since the optimizations where written to counter the losses that where created for that update. In 1.17 they increased the world height. The performance of chunk loading/unloading should have halved, and been nearly unplayable. However huge optimizations where done behind the scenes, and it ended up being slightly faster than it was before. There are tons of examples I could give. Mojang does optimize the game, however they can only optimize so much. So they prioritize the most critical/important optimizations based on what they have planned in the coming updates. Final notes, with my experience. Optimizations can take 2-5x longer to write than adding a game mechanic, which makes it a real time sink for a business. However Mojang does optimize its game, and sadly it does seem to be getting slower every other update. However the modding community never gives up and is willing to make up for the lack of time. On that note, go download MemoryLeakFix and MoreCulling xD Re: Optifine is a flaming piece of garbage in modern versions compared to optimization mods. That and it has 0 mod compatibility, so I highly recommend against using it

[@philipjeffrey2926]

oh um ok

[@HeyCraze]

For me, I've always had to use mods to have more then 23 frames per second. you heard me right. 23 fps. When i first got this laptop in 2019, I ran a benchmark of no more then 23 frames. when I saw that, my heart sunk. I never really knew how much power Minecraft used up until that point. Today as mods are coming out I'm able to quadruple that number. with the mods I'm running right now (As of 1.19.3) I managed to get a Top benchmark of 309 frames. with 31 different performance mods. 32 mods now, with the mod you shown in your video. On forge I managed 309 frames. on fabric with optifine, I ran a benchmark of 163 frames. this may be a long message, but I am giving my opinion about Minecraft. it needs some help. With the modset I've got installed right now, I'm able to run over 100 heavy mods. it's what i'm hoping at least. You never know what could happen when trying to make forge modsets.

[@Yooli8537]

„Performance Mods“ Bedrock Players: 😂

[@DigginThrough.MyOldMuscles.]

"Bugs that makes MC unplayable and shitty af mods" Java Players: 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣

[@itsarian.]

the new "renderdragon" engine for bedrock editon has also fucked up the performance:)

[@Nugcon]

"Mods" Bedrock Players: ????????

[@Yooli8537]

@@Nugcon true

[@Yooli8537]

@@DigginThrough.MyOldMuscles. I never get why people say that Bedrock is glitchy. I really have to look up glitches to find them

[@json17]

This is pretty embarrassing for a billion dollar company.

[@LandonEmma]

There is a list of all performance mods and all their specific stuff.

[@minepacha6475]

i use sodium, but there is a big issue. some chunks keep disappearing and reappearing. but i have no choice but to deal with it, since optifine doesn't do any performance upgrades for me.

[@CApt-NinJA]

Bedrock has major issues

[@Gi4N69]

so true

[@Freezy74]

both do, but bedrock is sometimes just really broken

[@octosation]

Java Edition is still the greatest. Can you explain what the probem is with Bedrock, though? I feel like there's wayyy too many transactions.

[@empty9926]

transactions that no one actually buys

[@octosation]

@@empty9926 Yep!

[@legitbox]

@@empty9926 i do agree with that lmao, even beying a bedrock modder, i can say that the marketplace is basically useless, especially that mod communities exist

[@philipjeffrey2926]

bro

[@FizzyBanger]

Well, I went into Bedrock edition's microtransactions a long time ago, and why they actually provide a huge revenue stream for Mojang (because kids will buy anything). Bit speculative, but I think the reason why we've had free updates and maintenance of the game in recent years is because of nicrotransactions bankrolling the developers. Java is still extremely important for Minecraft's brand image, as all the big creators seem to play on it, and drive players to the game. But I think Bedrock just has more money to be made in it, and it's so they can support both Java and Bedrock. This is all just my opinion.

[@rabitec.]

I've heard that one of the biggest problems is that Minecraft was written as a single-threaded application because of the limits of available hardware back when it first came out and making it utilise multiple threads would most likely require Mojang to completely rewrite the game which would obviously be a lot of work.

[@alejandrovallejo4330]

When the update that extended the world from 0 being the lowest level to -60 being the lowest, my games went from having up to 200 fps with Iris and Sodium mods and HD shaders to have a max of 30 fps after.... I didn't even get to enjoy the high fps propperly since the update came out little after I discovered the Iris mod 😞

[@josephsebastian1882]

bedrock player be trying find anything and everything to try to say there version is better than java stay coping and seething while java stays wining

[@philipjeffrey2926]

Who actually liked this comment where the human race is going is scary

[@josephsebastian1882]

@@philipjeffrey2926 because they where based af

[@philipjeffrey2926]

In 4 hours 3 more likes?? Can't imagine what life they are living

[@zabicka0766]

these guys crying when they dont have 700 average fps ingame

[@FizzyBanger]

idk why anyone would run beyond 60fps, to be honest. That's my limit, and I don't need any more to enjoy the block game. Plus, I'm pretty sure running at stupidly high fps degrades a PC faster (could be just something I heard wrong).

[@the8413]

The more fps you have the lower the input delay. Even if your monitor is 60hz if you play at 120fps then you will feel less input delay compared to 60 fps

[@zabicka0766]

@@the8413 150 or higher you dont see the difference

[@the8413]

@Zabicka07 yeah it has diminishing returns but have your fps higher than your monitors refresh rate feels much smoother

[@dudeofdudovia]

@@FizzyBanger there is a point if you have a high-refresh rate monitor, as it will look more smooth. but if you're running 9001 fps you really don't need that

[@livelymaniac5107]

Hey fizzy what happened to your old lets play series, i loved it even if it was just 3 eps ,can u bring it back ?

[@Leonardo-G]

One of the largest factors going jnto Mojang not being able to incorporate modders’ code is probably licensing. Sodium, for example, is licensed with a CopyLeft license, meaning that Mojang would have to open-source their own code and may be limited commercially with what the could do with Minecraft.

[@calebhermann7024]

First video that isn’t only talking about Java editions strengths

[@ThunderingMC]

Mojang should make ‘The FPS update’ fixing all the frame drops issue

[@mooing_cowmilk]

if it is created for java via the community, Mojang doesn't bother to do it again. For bedrock, thanks to DRM and platform limitations where the community doesn't really own the game/devices, they are designing those features but only for bedrock, take a look at marketplace map creator tools or in-game editor mode. (they flat out stated "we only are doing this for bedrock")

[@Lolks]

I recently started a survival world on minceaft 1.0.0, and having tried playing Minecraft 1.19.2 survival on the same device (a Acer Nitro 5 with decent specs) i actively had to turn down my graphics settings on the newer version to get playable fps, on 1.0.0, no such issues. you can tell the game is in desperate need of optimizations, but as you stated in the video, it's unlikely because money.

[@slimexxot]

Not to mention that if Mojang attempted to incorporate similar methods of performance enhancement, and similar to Optifine, had some side effects and issues that hindered the experience, Mojang would receive far more backlash for it. If the latest version of Optifine were to have some massive rendering issues, then big deal, it's just a mod. If Mojang made a whole update centered around it and had similar rendering issues, I could only imagine the huge levels of backlash they'd receive.

[@KwikBR]

mojang attempted to partner with optifine, but the owner of it said no

[@animeking1357]

I will likely never play java version ever again. While I was playing java edition on a much older computer and that does explain the lag I had I just can't believe the difference in performance between java and bedrock. Bedrock version has only ever crashed for me once and that was during the dragon fight. Meanwhile when I played on java crashes were a common thing. I barely ever have framerate issues on bedrock version. The worst that I get is if I'm generating terrain quickly via flying the chunks take a few seconds to appear but there's still barely any lag. It's such a breath of fresh air over java version. Also the fact that the whole reason I stopped playing java version is that the 1.7 update just turned off all sound for me. It didn't matter if I had the ingame volume cranked, no sound.

[@ifyouwanna8428]

The main problem that caused lag. This is that they have tripled (slightly more) the height of the world but have not changed the way chunks work. Due to the fact that the height of the chunk is loaded at once from the lowest to the highest point, its doubling, greatly affected the performance. If they had divided it into at least two horizontally (or better as often as vertically), there would not have been such lags. There is a mod for 1.12.2 which completely redesigns the work of the chunks and they become square rather than rectangular from the floor to the ceiling. This also removes the restriction on the height of the world, making it as huge vertically as horizontally

[@CobaltSpace]

I think one of the barriers to vanilla performance improvements are the performance mods. Because the performance mods exist, it sort of masks the performance problem that minecraft has. Mojang doesn't need to improve the performance because other people do it for them. If these performance mods didn't exist, people would be complaining about performance a lot more. The mods make it so that performance is not urgent for mojang.

[@PineappleWappleMinecraftVids]

My problem with Minecraft 1.18's performance isn't so much with the frame rates, but the chunk rendering issues and block lag. When I try to quickly load new chunks, even if I'm just flying on an elytra or rowing with my boat through an ocean, the chunks frequently fail to render immediately and I have to pause my game so much that the game isn't even fun anymore. Also, when I actually enter newly loaded chunks, I tend to get an EXCESSIVE amount of block lag, which makes the game basically unplayable. You know, when you mine a piece of stone, and then it reappears, and the stone doesn't actually drop until 3 seconds later. On the other hand, in Minecraft 1.17 and below, as long as I keep my render distance at about 11 chunks or lower, I can play the game just fine and have practically no lag issues.

[@TurtyWurty]

This was just the inevitable problem that would occur when making the world height that much bigger. When loading a new chunk you have significantly more blocks that have to be generated and handled. There isn't really a solution to this unfortunately. Obviously a threaded chunk generator helps, but is really only a slight mitigation of the issue. Cubic chunks is always what people say is a goto. But it's important to note that this would become an issue with mojangs light and sky visibility calculations, as if the chunks above you weren't yet generated, the game wouldn't know how to correctly light up an area and decide things such as whether mobs can spawn there from sky light and etc.

[@Daniel_VolumeDown]

There is bug in sodium I guess (or lithium or phosphor) that makes mobs visible behind not yet loaded blocks. Maybe they fixed it now but that seemed to be the case when I tested it

[@redacted2814]

This came across my recommended feed and something I notice is rarely brought up when people talk about minecraft running poorly: The bundled JRE is terrible. One of the main performance enhancements I have ever experienced when running vanilla minecraft is to just force minecraft to use an up-to-date JRE I have installed in comparison to the bundled one. I don't know how they manage it, but the bundled JRE always is prone to memory leaks and overall poor performance, no matter which version of minecraft I run.

[@dark_elf_wizard]

03:27 change the option of how the game loads chunks, dont know the names they have give but i use the one that only load chunks ones and only reloads the chunks when you do something in them.

[@computerguy7451]

When I was on a mod and had iris with a bunch of performance boosters, chunks would fail to load for a minute every few minutes. Also I have installed almost 100 mods like 20 of which are fabric api without getting viruses.

[@chrisdouglas5020]

I’m not a Java player, but I think if they did an optimization update for both it would be great. People on the next gen(xbox) at least consoles would get features promised 2+ years ago they used to sell the console, and it would generally run better on consoles. But I know Java has its quirks that need ironing out so optifine and sodium aren’t basically required

[@m3nguele]

This is (kinda) the same problem we have with Fallout 3, New Vegas and Skyrim (Legacy Edition), its just an old codebase with spaghetti code, wringling on ancient libraries. Just to alleviate performance issues, while mantaining the quality (remember, to the developer, its easier to have it working, but slow, than working fast but breaking ever so often) that they need to deliver.

[@mr.checkmate2856]

Look, I understand the need for updates and all that. Keeps the game fresh and makes more money. But sometimes, I wish they'd just keep things a little more simplistic. Yes, this is just me wanting to relive the glory days of Minecraft. However I find playing in survival at least, to be a lot more of a daunting task with all of the new mobs, ores, and just all of this adding up (for me at least) to become less of a game, and more of a huge check list of things to do. Build base, find a village, find a Nether fortress, kill the wither, kill the Ender Dragon. All this to say I preferred it when it didn't seem like you were playing to fulfill the same list of chores you have before, but rather to just max n' chillax. I respect that even after all of this time Mojang still comes up with cool and unique ideas that really do spice things up. And this is also a game where you can do literally anything you want and are not forced to do any of what I just said. 😑

[@youngfool3380]

Man i actually really miss the "old" minecraft. I just miss the days before all the mods and massive content updates. Maybe it's because i just miss the days where everything was just so simple. That surely ain't the case no more.

[@UriahStuff]

I use a bunch of client side mods normally when playing(usually SMPs because playing on an external server causes less lag. Like 2/3 of my mods are performance.

[@paullavoie5542]

When I updated to 1:18 on bedrock it was hell too. All the sudden I had chunk loading problems.

[@imlocksaw]

My little laptop is struggling to run 12 render distance at 50 FPS. Sometimes on a good day it gets to 70, but that's quite uncommon. The game is so laggy that I can't even run the built in internal shaders in OptiFine.

[@Mephilis78]

One thing I noticed going back to Minecraft this year, is that Bedrock can do a fukl 74 (or 76, can't remember exactly) chunks of render distance with literally no issues. Java is limited to 32, and it's laggy.

[@tobiasluther4012]

Thanks for bringing this up Fizzy you are the best

[@FizzyBanger]

you're welcome! :)

[@OR56]

This is odd. I have a pretty standard PC, probably sub-standard in some areas, and I have never experienced frame rate issues while playing Java. Sometimes while playing on servers I get lag, but that is from my crappy internet. Great video though.

[@Xero-rr2ol]

CPU? Minecrafts performace is RAM and CPU heavy af.

[@GamerGod-fp1tj]

If you have anywhere over 10 gigs, and you have basically any CPU that isn’t ancient, you will be fine. People with 8 are also fine, but I think they can’t run Minecraft well because of other issues with their PC and stuff, and in top of that, Java purposely limits memory usage to either 2 or 4 gigs, which can be increased by editing the installation

[@OR56]

@@Xero-rr2ol Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790 CPU @ 3.60 GHz with 16 GB of RAM

[@sideshowkazstuff3867]

Honestly I think the game could do with not just an update but a full from the ground recode. You want new features in the game? Add in creatures and biomes that never made it to being voted in and a rework of the lighting engine to allow for coloured lighting. And wile your at it parity could be included with bedrock. The whole lot could be fixed from the ground up and because theres always previous versions you can still use all your old mods on those.

[@da_pwo]

They should try splitting chunks linearly too so it wouldn't have to render those trees and villages while I'm caving

[@da_pwo]

@Charlie ok but maybe you can edit vertical chunk distance for that