The Problem with Structural Racism | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show

[@bdwoods08]

I love how deep these conversations go. There is constructive criticism of systems, critical thinking being applied, and testing logic and they are still friends. People still interact with them. I am not sure if they read these comments but I appreciate this conversation. I fall right between Glen and John and struggle sometimes to articulate the point of view that I hold around difficult and nuanced issues. Thank you both for modeling. Please keep it going.

[@ondolite3789]

Brandon, you stink.

[@dalecampbell9259]

fantastic conversation, exemplary for honest pushback AND listening/re-framing. e.g. "I hear you" and I also loved when John said "I admit it"

[@curtisloftis6003]

Glenn Loury is the man.

[@TheOriginalCryptoPimp]

Why is he the man? Because you agree with him? If you disagreed with him, would he still be the man?

[@curtisloftis6003]

@@TheOriginalCryptoPimp I have not agreed with him in a number of issues. However, I usually understand his reasoning and always find it interesting and edifying.

[@TheOriginalCryptoPimp]

@@curtisloftis6003 that's a mature response. Thank you.

[@pdebra6542]

Can't help but love the respect they have for each other.

[@monzonanimalzone]

These gentlemen are so eloquent and even better listeners!

[@lynnej.9357]

Not to do with racism, (I'm as WASPY as they come.) but I used to say this to my kids: Some things that are not your fault, are your responsibility. Also, I saw this somewhere years ago and have taken it very much to heart: Bloom where you're planted. As a mother, I would gladly trade places with my suffering kids. But theirs is not my road to walk. You have to walk your OWN road. With luck, someone will walk beside you.

[@ondolite3789]

Glenn and John are evil.

[@lynnej.9357]

@@ondolite3789 ?

[@ondolite3789]

@@lynnej.9357 Glenn and John are evil.

[@jamesduda6017]

@@ondolite3789 that's very productive.

[@ondolite3789]

@@jamesduda6017 No, you just want me to lie.

[@jgreene2011]

Interesting discussion . I tend to side more with John on this issue, as I think he is taking a more plausible route to fixing the problem. As a practical matter, I think he agrees with Glenn’s main point - that is, Black people are generally responsible for whether or not they live an honest, hard working, and successful life. However, you have to meet some people where they are. And frankly, most Black people are unwilling to discuss the personal responsibility aspect without first addressing the systemic racism issue. I think John is wise to see that a linguistic compromise may be more helpful in terms of reaching the goal (ie closing the gap on racial disparities) than minimizing the systemic racism aspect would be.

[@fatso1959]

Love these guys. I am always made a better person whenever I listen to them.

[@smelltheglove2038]

Seems like the biggest problem is that you cannot be frank with a subset of the population. That’s a huge problem.

[@freddieoblivion6122]

Right, you can't speak plainly - pride gets in the way. One of the 7 deadly for a reason.

[@jimwerther]

"Huge _subset?"_ Hang on. Who _can_ you be honest with? I'm not sure I've met that creature yet.

[@ondolite3789]

@@jimwerther He means blaq people.

[@jimwerther]

@@ondolite3789 I knew that, really. I'm disputing the point.

[@ondolite3789]

I knew that really!

[@JDHobbs]

There was an "Omar" story I remember from the mid-nineties. Omar got kicked out of a city High School because he adopted the then fashion of wearing his pant below his butt, with bright boxers on display. Of course he went to court (claiming a cultural right to this style) and the court upheld the school's dress codes, His mother's response is what I found to be odd: she lamented that Omar would now denied an education, whereas I thought well...pull 'em for a few hours in class and then study with 'em back in their cultural crack. I was required to wear a collared shirt tucked in...which is pretty uncomfortable, and I fondly remember the joy of ripping it out as soon as I got off campus.

[@ccreasman]

There is always a tension between saying what one believes to be true (something that you believe will help create solution for X issue) and saying something that will be heard. Or saying a solution that can actually be enacted. That tension, perhaps between pure-ism and real-ism, realpolitik, is at the core of leadership for an entity (business, non-profit, civic structure). Maybe a way to think about it is “am I called to be a prophet,” and thus therefore must speak the truth regardless of whether anyone listens, or “am I called to be a politician,” and thus therefor must speak in a way to be heard, and with actual solutions, which are probably solutions that I myself find as “half-measures.”

[@oraz.]

Inequity is better because it begs the question what specifically. Structural racism is vague and a cudgel so it evades skepticism.

[@hamm0155]

This is a great exchange and an example of what we need so much more of. It would also be nice if we could talk about the complex issues around social vs individual, past vs present, blame vs responsibility, etc, without everybody just going, "wait, if I say that then that would be liberal" or " I don't want to be a conservative on this" or "what does my political affiliation/tribe tell me I should say about this?"

[@ondolite3789]

But that is EXACTLY what these bastards do every week.

[@dennisdose5697]

Very good segment. So much of the problem with finding solutions to the issues poor folks are having, but particularly poor blacks, is in my opinion the focus on where to fix the blame. In recent years I have had a number of challenges thrust on me by outside forces. I know who is to blame. And it is very clear that the perpetrators will not be part of the solution to my problems. It will be me or nobody. This is typical of life I believe. Unfair? Yup. So what? Do you want a better life going forward? It's on you, same as everybody else. Have bigger hurdles than most? They are still your hurdles. I really like the separation you guys made between fault and responsibility, that is key. Even if you isolate the blame to another you absolutely will find they are no earthly use in creating a solution. They are destroyers not creators. BTW, even if you can't reach "Omar" I think the focus needs to be on the "proto-Omars". They need to be steered in a new direction before dropping out of school and creating disastrous single parent families.

[@siriuslyspeaking9720]

If one truly wants to get to the heart of the matter which is poor people in general, than it seems to me the economic structure is the first place to look. Why is there a consistent percentage of people living at or below the poverty line? For me the direct questions to ask are, how much wealth and thus power should one person be allowed to amass in a world of limited resources? What is a fair amount of compensation for a person's contribution to a finished product or service? In a competitive situation, there will be those who win and those who won't. How should society view those who don't win, and how should those who don't win, view themselves? In terms of us Black people, dealing with racism and all our other problems, I approach it all by focusing first on that which will produce improvement/gains more easily/quickly. I approach it thinking that our problems are external as will as internal. It seems not easy for us to say which is the greater factor, but I believe correcting the things we have control over will give a better picture of what the extent of the external problems are. We are saying petty much the same although likely from different vantage points. You last point speaks to the long term solution. This is another point I stress as often as possible. There has to be short and long term strategies/solutions to deal with the problems. I equate them with 'Marshall Plan' and 'Martial Law' type of efforts. The 'Marshall Plan' is long term while 'Martial Law' is short term. The Marshall Plan needs the stability/conducive environment, that the 'Martial Law' type effort provides, so the 'Marshall Plan' effort, can take root and grow. Order/functionality has to return to Black communities where it doesn't exist. "Community policing" means to me the community policing itself. The values and standards a people and community have and set for themselves, is the first level of policing. They first must be widely recognized, before they can be widely adhered to. In many cases basic values are not recognized. They are seen as foreign. Subcultures can take people further way from basic values. This can be seen even among police, (to add some balance to this statemen). There is a culture problem within policing. The sanctity of law is too often sacrificed for the sake of order. This disregard for law obviously happens all the way up to the highest office in the government. If the people are in fact the government, it may be up to us, to set the examples of integrity and justice for government. One way this can manifest in actuality, would be if both sides would agree to institute the policies they all can agree on, and not use them as bargaining chips, for other legislation. Refunding the courses that have been removed from urban and any other schools, over the decade, is one thing they all should do, right now. In fact adding more courses or updating of current ones, should also be done. This would be a basic start to the 'Marshall Plan' type of effort.

[@dennisdose5697]

@@siriuslyspeaking9720 hi Sirius. Haven't had time to read your whole piece but would like to touch on few subjects. You asked some good questions and I think I may be able to address some of them in a useful way. Poverty persistence: if you look at perhaps the last twenty years of us gov data that seems real . Post ww2 poverty was dropping fast, in those 20 years black poverty dropped 40%. Some economists believe the government "war on poverty " may have actually slowed the reduction in poverty. On world scale the change is more dramatic. In 1960 (IIRC) world poverty was 60-70% of the population, that has fallen below 10%. Cut in half in the last 20 years I think . Wealth and resources. People tend to think of these as fixed, they are not. Resources. First, what we consider a resource changes. 2 thousand years ago a type of shellfish used in purple dye could make you wealthy. 200 years ago black ooze in the ground ruined it. New dye sources and inventing uses for oil changed the values. Even land is not fixed, 100 years ago Midwestern farm land produced 30 bushels of corn per acre (bpa). 50 years ago 70 bpa . Today over 200 bpa is common and test plots have exceeded 500 bpa. And modern techniques are allowing increased yields with lower use of fertilizer and water. Literally more from less. Resources are not fixed. Ok, out of time. Will get back to you on wealth soon. Take care 😎.

[@dennisdose5697]

@@siriuslyspeaking9720 OK Sirius, got another slice of time. In the past the relationship between wealth, power and resources was, from what I can see, more intrinsic. The advent of rule of law and free market economics have altered that a great deal. The power of wealth is not compelling, the merchant, however wealthy, must convince us to select his/her product. Governments are the ones that compel. Nor is wealth tied to tangible resources. Consider Amazon, Bezos set up an online book store. But the wealth creation was in developing a more efficient interface between vendors and customers. Jeff Bezos gets only a tiny slice of each transaction, but there are billions of transactions. Keep in mind the wealth estimates of these folks are not bank account numbers, they represent the current estimated value of the business and that represents a lot of folk's jobs. This is what politicians talking about "wealth taxes " don't understand. They won't hurt the billionaire one bit, but they will reduce the number of people they can hire. Wealth is not fixed, it can be created and destroyed. One person having more doesn't reduce what another has or can create themselves. Even if you are one of the poor in a nation with the super rich you are better off than the middle class in most of the world. Just want to touch on one other subject, income gaps between groups. We often hear how the average white income is substantially more than that of blacks. This is true. We sometimes also hear that Asians average well above whites in income. Also true. What we don't hear is that the incomes of blacks from two parent homes are close to those of whites and Asians from two parent homes. Likewise whites and Asians from single parent homes are just a bit above blacks from single parent homes, and all are well below the two parent groups. Income is not correlated with race, family structure is a far greater indicator. I would strongly recommend reading Dr Thomas Sowell on these issues, he has done a great deal of research into cultural and income disparities all over the world. Hey, take care. Appreciated your thoughts.

[@jimwerther]

@@siriuslyspeaking9720 Dennis just beat me to it at the end of his second comment: I was about to recommend Thomas Sowell to you. The good news is that Sowell seems to not care about protecting his intellectual property. As such, there numerous YT channels dedicated to Sowell and his work, none run by him. Many of his interviews and articles show up here, as well as some of his audiobooks, all free of charge. The most brilliant public intellectual of our time, still chugging away at age 92, accessible at your fingertips.

[@ondolite3789]

You need to get on with your own shortdik life. You analyse without reference to reality or history. It is actually comical.

[@Mark-hc8ek]

People's comfort zones can be rather pathological. For too many black Americans, the comfort zone is poverty and violence. These are more appealing than facing challenges and effort. True black leadership will break blacks out of this trap and tell them to get out of their communities and try.

[@Y2JLionHeart]

Brilliant, as usual.

[@pepps779]

Ignoring the racial qualifier for a moment, should individual equity even be a goal that should be sought? Should we expect every individual to perform and be rewarded in an equivalent manner throughout society? I sometimes question if we are being wholly blinded into taking up causes that will go nowhere based on superficial aspects that merely appear as if they better us.

[@rustynails68]

Nobody really wants equality.

[@pepps779]

@@rustynails68 What do they want?

[@rustynails68]

@@pepps779 I asked Kevin at work and he said that he wants people to stop bothering him with pointless questions.

[@rustynails68]

People want the privilege that they feel they deserve.

[@EvilMAiq]

We don't have to do anything, and I do mean that in the broadest sense. This goal of equity is like any other, just something to do in the interim between birth and death. Let people test their hypotheses, I say.

[@gaylacedarpark3094]

Children within the same family have potentially very different levels of struggles or success in life. There are so many contributing factors. There is not just one.

[@hamm0155]

I would challenge part of what Glenn says here in the following sense: Perhaps Omar is responsible for playing the hand he is dealt as well as possible, so we should not ignore that and he maybe doesn't deserve to escape all blame or be completely let off the hook in practical terms. However, we do want policies and practices that will lead to there being fewer "bad Omars" going forward. What if the policies that lead to this more responsible future in the most effective way, involve giving the current bad Omar things that he doesn't deserve? I'm not saying I know what such policies would be, but just that we should also consider the question that way. What if funding a bunch of social support programs gives a lot of individuals things that they did not earn or deserve by their own merits, but it leads to a better future, because in the future people will be more thoughtful, caring, responsible, etc.?

[@liedersanger1]

“Fault” is a loaded word, and it has been used against blacks and other minorities, to justify inequality and injustice. It still is. Even Glenn uses it. “It IS your fault.” It is a a moral idea with Calvinist roots, I think, and almost by definition a state that’s hard to escape -like sin. (The moralizing left uses the word too- everything is the “fault” of white racism.) Responsibility is a better word, and a better concept. The two words are used interchangeably in this exchange, but there’s a difference: responsibility begins with the individual but is communal, shared, interactive, and forward-looking. We learn responsibility, we respond to needs. Now, to Amy Waxman. After you’ve been struck by a truck, she says, no one can get up and learn to walk for you. This is a problematic analogy that obscures the real issues. It implies a single, clearly discernible, devastating blow from a single blind external source. It implies the injury was an accident. It also implies the victim knew how to walk in the first place, that the crosswalk was open to him, and that he had a destination. And it implies there is no help, available or needed, when of course someone run-over will need doctors, an ambulance, a hospital, long-term rehabilitation, and, a government (and an electorate) that supports those things. Don’t we all have a responsibility to see that our children-all of them-live in conditions that make for for success and happiness? Isn’t that the goal of a democracy? Isn’t that what a democracy supposed to do better than any other system? Of course, we can’t *make* it happen with the snap of our fingers. Solutions are complex. Top-down government programs are often flawed. Families, communities, churches, all play a role. But we can’t offload responsibility, whoever we are. I suggest we can’t think about racial discrimination and disadvantage without relating those issues to many other issues (inequality, education, drugs, mental health, housing), and exploring that web of responsibility requires clear thinking and clear language.

[@jamesshaw6884]

There are videos of black men being sent to prison who told the judge "suck my dick" and then got more years the level of failure and stupidity is breath taking

[@liedersanger1]

@@jamesshaw6884 I guess you’ve never seen videos of white wackos in court.

[@LZX61]

Tell black Americans to imitate black immigrants from Africa. Then they have a very good chance at success.

[@LZX61]

@X vonPocalypse if you want to continue to fail, continue to do what you have been doing and blame it on someone else so you can retain a little bit of self respect….but soon you won’t have that either.

[@NorthernObserver]

@X vonPocalypse white supremacy is a cope.

[@martinguila]

Inequities is just the statement of measurable differences in what different groups have. Structural racism is very different in that it is a explanatory theory of what causes the inequities. We cant just assume that all inequities is caused by racism. A large part of it might be, but we must be much more precise in our language around this. Structural racism is just to vague, do the equities exist because of slavery or because of racist hiring processes? And to what degree? I see no problem with the use of the word if it is properly defined and quantifiable. But to those who are intellectually dishonest there are advantages to using vague terms. It sounds like they know what they are talking about but you cant falsify their claims. That what I think John ment by saying its manipulative.

[@jedsparks7324]

This became personal to me. I have a friend named Omar whom I have wanted to tell , pull up your pants & act like a responsible human and life might just become easier. You might make more money ect. But I feal he won't take it the right way and my good advice will be rejected & will drive a wall between us then I would never be able be any help to him in the future. A difficult situation

[@jimwerther]

Send him to Glenn and John 😁

[@luciusdali4762]

I think it’s good to be strategic. Excuse this metaphor but: You can push someone off a Cliff nudging them an inch at a time. Better allegory might be with music. You can have someone appreciate a new genre by recommending pieces which more closely match their current preferences and then gradually introducing them to more and more exotic music.

[@nealorr5086]

Who is Omar? I know what they mean when they reference him, but it the name itself in reference to someone, or just one they arbitrarily started using? Thanks in advance.

[@glennloury3677]

No specific person. He's a type...

[@lo-lifecntral2789]

Suppose they based it off Omar from the show The wire.

[@arawilson]

@@lo-lifecntral2789 He was the moral center of that sector of "The Wire" though ...

[@lo-lifecntral2789]

@@arawilson absolutely, the guess was based on his ruggedness went he went bout his shit in that sector.

[@onceagain6184]

Structural racism definitely exists, especially in the criminal justice system!

[@bwake]

Omar will change his behavior the minute that the women around him disapprove of it. He will not do the prudent thing if he thinks the women will jeer at him for it. You have to reach the women.

[@jimwerther]

Interesting point.

[@Mark-hc8ek]

That's what I hear from middle eastern men. They say their culture is the way it is because women want it that way. Women generally are more conservative and traditional than men. Toxic mom syndrome.

[@rustynails68]

John has a point. The word “structural”, makes people victims of the giant unforgiving machine. It is also makes it sound like the individual has no responsibility. The only truly insurmountable impediment is acceptance of victimhood.

[@dennisdose5697]

Yes. So many people trying to "help " that are crushing peoples will to try. I recall a friend who is a teacher saying in reference to black students (she is black) "if you can't see it you can't be it ". Dear God, I hope she never says that to them. What a disastrous philosophy. And obviously false. Aaaaaargh!

[@cleetussmith6652]

The real issue that needs addressing is not whether or not structural racism exist, rather how much of a factor is it really. I have watched many people donate blood and the prick of the needle is the same among them all and yet some move on as though nothing happened whiles others act as though the world nearly just ended. We need to stop claiming that structural racism does not exist while also realizing that it did not result in every ill facing the black community. It would also be interesting to compare the relative true effects of structural racism with the effects of profound poverty found in the inner city as well as Appalachia, the effects of living in an extremely dysfunctional family where child abuse is profound, etc. Ultimately, I think we would discover in such a study that we are all victims of some kind of abuse and it matters more to what extent on how we dare respond to the abuse. After all, it accomplishes nothing to claim my abuse was worse than yours so I have no responsibility over my life's outcome nor does the demand that others who had nothing at all to do with my abuse take on the responsibility to fix my situation.

[@cleetussmith6652]

@@bwhere45 As a research chemist I know that I can never prove the absence of anything so arguing whether something is there or not becomes a moot point. Instead, one can and should argue for the relative effect of whatever. Since I cannot prove structural racism is absent, I must assume it is preset so now the salient argument become a quantifiable measure of it and it is that measure that determines if it is so small as to be worthless to investigate further or if there is something more significant present. Part of this measure of significance is one of comparing its effect to that of other acts and behaviors.

[@twatmunro]

What about all those people in the white underclass? Are their lives also a product of inequity? Is it also 'not their fault'. Their poverty and criminal involvement also tend to be inter-generational. In what way are the issues that affect their lives different to those of black people in the same situation?

[@explrr22]

Theory: The elites that congratulate themselves upon favoring uplift among other groups, enjoy congratulating themselves upon their superiority over and disdain for "white" underclass. It's a status game running in the background of their consciousness. ... Perhaps I (to some extent) I'm doing the same thing with this theory. ... Perhaps we all could benefit from a little more self awareness and humility.

[@cgsather3309]

@@explrr22 ​ good point. If all whites shared the same level of support for disadvantaged groups, the white elites wouldn’t be elites, at least in that regard. To set themselves apart as elites they would need to move the needle, at the expense of the white underclass. Given that they revel in their role as elites, they keep moving the needle far enough to ensure they stay ahead in the game, but they also risk getting too close to the precipice.

[@mounteverestoftheobvious1182]

Someone one replied, “The solution to this problem is more truth, not less.” No, it’s not. You cannot fight the problems of today head-on - you’ve gotta be more sophisticated than that. Even efforts I agree with are blunt instruments: They’re just pounding away at problems without any examination of the efficacy of their efforts. But take some of those same people and expand the scope of the debate - to look at irrational behavior across the board (including their own) - and now you’re talkin’. Race and woke are just brands of behavior on the Left -- just as the Right has its own brands of bullshit. You have to look at the root of a problem before you can solve it. No one across these communities is doing that -- hence you have no chance in hell of ever making a dent. Look around!

[@SpiderFromMars81]

🎯

[@oleeb]

Racism is one variable. It’s not the only variable. The likelihood of anyone successfully navigating this modern world who is born into a financially unstable family with lower class mores and standards is very low. The “disparities” so often pointed out about black Americans are often shared by those who are not black but have similarly unstable families of origin. Prosperous, stable hones tend to produce citizens who contribute positively to their communities, pay their taxes and don’t commit violent crimes.. Families that aren’t prosperous and that are not stable and that don’t have basic middle class values and mores are less likely to produce citizens who make the positive contributions mentioned above. This is true regardless of race. These disparities are more effectively addressed by eliminating poverty which, in turn, allows for family stability and positive personal development. But sadly, in America, we prefer to blame the poor and financially unstable people for their poverty i stead of getting them out of poverty so they can solve their own problems. We know how to do this effectively but the right wing of both political parties would rather see generations of growing crime and depravity than to provide the funds we know are necessary to get these fellow human beings out of poverty which has been repeatedly shown to harm children and adults every bit as much as physical violence.

[@prschuster]

It's complicated: 1) historical racism is a fact 2) it has taken it's toll on BIPOC communities 3) there is a culture that disparages education in these communities 4) individuals are still responsible for their behavior 5) things like red lining & the war on drugs still hold people back 6) White people are not the cause of these disparities today I think John McWhorter has the right overall view.

[@mollyshredder]

Interestingly, if they read Kendo's book, they would agree w him.

[@mollyshredder]

Kendi lol

[@williamtaylor5193]

John did and he don't.

[@mollyshredder]

@@williamtaylor5193 I think they're not being honest. Maybe they wouldn't be relevant if they were honest?

[@godzillamegatron3590]

Every group that came to USA has faced some type of discrimination. And every group over came it. Progress in the black American community will happen, once black Americans start support themselves and support black American owned businesses. Support your black Barber, your black stores, hire black contractors. Start building an economic base. Every group has done it in the past.

[@Gnofg]

Here is the difference that you fail to understand is how racism affects minorities in their own image of themselves. If you take a second to notice in high paying sales jobs like enterprise software sales almost no minorities work in this area. There are almost no blacks or Asian Americans. I am one of the few who works in this area and that is because it is how we internally see ourselves. Think about that.

[@Gnofg]

@DaBrucci not in sales. In sales you are “naked” and your first impression is key. It is not like technical disciplines.

[@Gnofg]

@DaBrucci I already have. If you didn’t read my original reply I am in sales. What you people don’t understand is how racism affects one’s self esteem. Can you give me when you were a victim of systemic racism?

[@dennisdose5697]

Blacks were doing this. Their economic progress for twenty years post ww2 was impressive. Something happened in the 60s and 70s that crushed this. Black families, intact through slavery and 100 years after fell apart. This was post civil rights, just yelling "racism " over and over won't cut it. What happened to a proud, industrious, advancing people just when the playing field started to level a bit? Troubling.

[@Gnofg]

@@dennisdose5697 yea let’s go back to segregation

[@Sneaky-Sneaky]

I guess the power of the ‘Role Model’ is slipping away……?

[@FUToob]

The "Dull Voice" speaking into the mirror and on KZbin doesn't cut through to Omar.

[@bobdolemite4035]

John, sometimes you can be too close to the problem to use the language you really need to use. Proximity clouds judgement, which is why it's abhorrent to focus on lived experience vs logic. I would also ask, what is the long game on these policies? If they go on forever, then you have effectively put one race over another. We see the world from our little piece of the historical record, looking backward and forward. We judge anachronistically because of feelings. The only SUSTAINABLE... sustainable being the key word .... approach is to give everyone equal rights and let the chips fall where they may. I imagine that popular views will change in this direction as minorities of all races continue to build generational wealth that they want to protect for their families. When all races get tired of propping up Omar and Omar refuses to perform then what happens on a societal level. Racial preference for anything whatsoever is poison. Determining benefits or anything else on race only sets the stage for a lot of people to be pissed off a 20% minority. That's a poor long game to feel like you are doing something short term.

[@jimwerther]

Damn, I hope you're right. But it doesn't look promising right now.

[@oleeb]

You want the product of the programs you question to be proven without ever having been tried. And no, the programs our government has underfunded and designed to fail haven’t worked because there are politicians and ideological interests that make sure they cannot succeed. Until those bad faith actors get out of the way we won’t ever see the policy changes necessary.

[@jimwerther]

@@oleeb Your argument is both false and unfalsiable. In fact, Thomas Sowell addresses brilliantly that entire argument. I would further add that politics without politicians is not possible.

[@jankelsey9738]

Whether the terminology is structural racism or inequities is entirely academic. The terms used doesn't take away from the fact that there are unique historical factors that specifically impact AA that were based on federal and state-sponsored and supported racist policies that have been culturally reinforced in this country. This is evidence-based and factual. It's also not controversial and is equally factual to state that regardless of barriers anyone encounters mainly it is an individual's efforts that will allow the person to overcome those barriers. While also acknowledging that it's not controversial to say that if federal and state governments erected barriers that still have deleterious impacts on racial groups, then these entities have a responsibility to aid in improving the conditions of these people. The analogy is akin to a spouse that is battered for years who's abuser stops, and apologizes, but makes no effort to repair the damaged caused.

[@jankelsey9738]

@@dabrucci9177 Uhh, I'm black that happens to know a lot of black people. I don't know anyone that doesn't accept responsibility for their individual issues. It's It's not complicated to recognize historical, environmental, societal, cultural, and individual responsibility issues associated with any negative outcomes and behavior To be honest, it's much more intellectually honest to understand the nuance and complexity in the intersection of all these things.

[@jankelsey9738]

I don't know anyone black that gives a pass to anyone that commits violent crimes. There is a difference between empathy and consequences for actions.

[@jankelsey9738]

@@dabrucci9177 Please keep in mind that the same can be stated for cultural issues within some white Americans' involvement with heroin addiction, suicide, and an overrepresentation in mass shootings, hate crimes, and Christian fundamentalist extremism. Are these issues equally representative of white American cultural pathologies?

[@HeavyK.]

Why is it my fault?

[@mollyshredder]

Oh but for the grace of God go I. By staying there's structural racism, you r NOT saying the individual is not responsible. This is so dumb. Why r they not able to be more intellectually honest?

[@arawilson]

Where do Kendi or Di Angelo, say, talk about individual responsibility?

[@slycat956]

Well if it is your responsibility and you fail in that respect then it's your fault