The PROBLEM With Ultra Instinct in Dragon Ball Super

[@ACertainMan]

Hard disagree, you are mixing ultra instinct from the Manga with Ultra instinct in the anime. In the Manga ultra instinct builds up on all of Goku's teachings in martial arts from Roshi to Whis all his training up till now allowed him to tap into Ultra Instinct, it also integrated God Ki since that is a form of martial art taught by Whis building upon the God forms and expanding them further. Ultra Instinct is not a deus Ex machina in fact the first time Goku tapped into the silver hair form he lost to Jiren one on one and had to jump him with Vegeta Frieza 17 Goku's Progress in ultra instinct has been gradual in the arcs, the first time he tapped into it his own body couldn't handle the pressure in the moro arc he learned to tap into it but was still met with an energy issue getting his energy ultimately absorbed by Moro In the Granola arc, we always knew that Ultra Instinct needs a clam mind to be at 100% Goku didn't have any stakes in fighting Granola their fude is with Frieza not him this adds a layer of complexity to the form. Enter True Ultra Instinct, this form was foreshadowed in the tournament of power back when Goku completely disregarded his emotions this time he is trying to integrate them into ultra instinct mixing it with his Saiyan heratige he succeeded in mixing it with the Sign form amping it in the process. The Ki Avatar is a reactionary mechanism by Ultra Instinct which allows the user to act even if their body can't move this makes sense for Ultra Instinct, we saw this twice when Moro captured Goku in his hands and Couldn't move and when Goku was on the ground unconscious in the gas fight.

[@nickalas666]

finally someone who know what there talking about

[@LegendaryChadzilla]

Massive w. The manga has some pretty okay writing

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

This is what I was going to say but it seems too many comments are misinterpreting what it means by Ultra and instinct

[@dbzmods6429]

Thank you.

[@sr.brigadeiro7718]

thank you for the insight

[@thedead073]

Ultra instinct is such a tragic form. The writers are going through an identity crisis. The form was supposed to be an ascent to angelic levels of power and by the end of the arc it just became a regular form where Goku screams "I won't forgive you" and charges at Jiren like he's just turned Super Saiyan for the first time on Namek. One minute he's fighting differently while being completely silent. Next minute he's fighting with his emotions One minute fighting with your emotions is bad The next, fighting with your emotions is good. One minute he's weaving everything and dodging everything The next he's summoning sussano to kill the enemy. What an L.

[@GeteMachine]

Fighting with your emotions with UI, just contradicts what UI is about to me and what Whis was teaching. They should have just kept it a silent form that is just focused and purely on body movement and ki. It just doesn't make sense to say its better with emotions, because that is what SSJ forms are for. But the anime already ignored that SSB is supposed to be a calm state, so. Consistency is long out the window, but I don't like it.

[@rednaxela5960]

I like the susanoo, because its not like it contradicts what ui is, UI is about taking the most effective route to avoid damage, from hardening your muscles on contact for unavoidable attacks to reduce damage, or shifting your organs against someone targeting them, its just that dodging is the best form of reducing damage. But yeah the anime making goku loose his cokl demeanor against jiren and tui being introduced takes away fron the essence of ui.

[@nickalas666]

if u don't know what ur talking about just shut up

[@1ce867]

True, since ui is like the real version of flow state, I cant see myself having wavy emotions and still being in the state, it’ll cancel out

[@eveofinprov2600]

@@rednaxela5960no, it doesn’t. It’s Goku trying to make UI his own from, away from what it’s supposed to be.

[@BobMossNanoTanks]

I think you're just describing the problem with Super as a whole lol. The power scaling is completely messed up and nothing makes much sense anymore.

[@GeteMachine]

Scaling is broken, forms aren't clear, contrived and inconsistent. Super is just really messy. It makes me appreciate SSJ4 a bit more. Its simple, to the point and consistent.

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

​@@GeteMachineSsj4 is pretty contrived too. It comes out of nowhere and pretty much exemplifies GT too. A series with a lot to show but nothing to complete

[@crestofhonor2349]

@@GeteMachine SSJ4 isn't that different. GT can also suffer from major scaling issues too

[@bobdole7451]

.... The power scaling has been broken since the Android saga....

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

@@crestofhonor2349 SSJ4 ties into the existing Saiyan lore much better, and the scaling issues are not nearly as problematic as in Super. DB has always had scaling problems, but Super really dialed it to 9000.

[@FopahPerfect]

Ultra instinct just finalizes Goku's growth as a martial artist, that's what makes it" not a character growth killer"

[@GeteMachine]

5:10 you can just blame the part of the fandom who doesn't understand the series thematically beyond transformations, and just wanted a white-haired form because of SSJ5. Leading us to a form that just breaks that groundedness of the original series. Toei gave them what they want, and it, feels out of place without the narrative around it also acknowledging the specific understanding of the original concepts of the series from Toriyama's influence with martial arts and athletics philosophy and psychology.

[@GeteMachine]

I also don't like how in the anime it doesn't feel like it followed the teaching Whis set up in ROF that Toriyama et up. Where it was about, containing your ki in your body to improve your stamina and focus. It sounds like a prelude to UI and the manga gave us ki-less mastered SSB, but the anime just ignored all that.

[@Santzu_]

That's not what Whis said about UI at all?

[@eveofinprov2600]

@@Santzu_dragon ball fans don’t watch db, you forgot right?

[@keve5534]

Your missing timeframes. RoF had them learn Blue via containing their ki. Mssb in the manga came out in the Goku Black arc of the manga while the anime was already in the ToP arc. The anime didn't ignore it cause it didnt exist

[@blackdot105]

My main problem with U.I is that is gives any sort of power boost. Why would it give such an insane power, when it's all about agility?

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

It becomes just another transformation.

[@dilanrashid1609]

Goku doesn't train, meanwhile a Manga Page shows His previous Masters talking about this Form.

[@siphosakhesengwayo]

Super Sayn 4 should have been the final form for Goku

[@SomeoneElse-]

The problem with it for me is how underwhelming it is. One's body moving on its own sounds like an ability that Goku should acquire around the time when he first trained with Kami and Popo, as it fits with the more basic martial arts focus of the series at that time. After that, characters have the power to obliterate planets and withstand unreal amounts of damage, so a mere exaggerated skill in agility just does not cut it anymore. Especially because characters also have supersonic speed. Ultra Instinct is nothing more than the cliche of strong characters effortlessly dodging attacks or blocking them with a finger, found in not just any other battle anime, but also in DBZ. It just does absolutely nothing for me. And it also doesn't make a lick of sense why it makes Goku physically stronger or is a transformation in the first place. It looks lame too. The only good thing I can say about it is that its theme is incredible.

[@Shazasterforever1]

For me its one of the worst looking form. Because it's nothing more than base Goku with silver hair. Like I wish they added some change to him outside of the basic stuff.

[@tiablue9106]

I can mostly agree w/ this, I admit I don't keep up the manga so I can't rly say anything on how UI was used there. but back when eps 109 & 110 of super came out, I was so baffled w/ ppl saying UI was so well-explained when whis's explanation boiled down to "that spirit bomb fricked goku up so bad he unlocked a new form", then goku can just regain it whenever the plot demands. and how they explained it just felt so superficially complicated w/ how goku can basically dodge everything which he can do every time he gets stronger (as if there weren't enough concerns abt him being op) and that left the writers w/ 3 not-so great options: A. say UI lets goku dodge everything but then don't show it working that way bc that'd be broken/boring B. keep UI as advertised, goku just has a broken new form at his disposal for the rest of the story C. give some excuse as to why goku can't use it even tho bro near-mastered it w/in half an hour of getting it I rlly hate calling things overrated, I don't wanna downplay anyone's enjoyment of UI but I think it was kinda fumbled...I tried to get hyped up w/ everyone else yrs ago but couldn't manage it

[@IPoopNaked]

When fans completely ruin things and a series caves in to demand. Tah-Dah! You have Super.

[@keve5534]

Based on what was said in Broly the explanation for Mui should be less a power boost and more automated maximum efficiency. Similar to the God to Blue thing from the manga black arc but removing the thinking part to speed it up. For example blue kiaoken may actually be able to dodge Jiren but Goku's mind gets in the way. With UI it does it. Meaning you'd still need the strength to back up UI

[@ytwhattup6128]

I think Ultra Instinct would be more thematically fitting if the form's effects were more personalized to the user When the TOP arc was ongoing, I remember some people speculating that Vegeta would also get UI but his would be more attack based while Goku's was more skill based. I think if they both got the form and it played off their different personality and fighting styles it'd feel like less of a random ass-pull to help Goku win. But ik that's just my thought

[@Kanyes-alt]

Def a goated form for me

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

4:13 agreed

[@PlaywiththePlays]

ultra instinct should have been just like kaioken in its concept: Kaioken - Massively boost your ki at cost of your stamina and body's endurance Ultra instinct - Massively boost your reaction speed at cost of your stamina Ultra ego - get ki boost more you take damage, I would like to see vegeta abuse senzu beans in some future arc to cheat code his ultra ego Making ultra instinct a transformation on its own is kind of nonsense

[@kaienglish271]

Also I kinda don’t like that we have got into a mindset that a form/technique can’t have flaws. UI and UE are forms that will improve with the users mindset or emotional state. As a Saiyan it will be harder for Goku to always stay calm that’s why Whis said find your own way to use UI. Comparing the Moro Ui and Granola UI is fine when u don’t look at the context Goku had a new resolve against Moro by against Granola there was no such thing present. I think seeing the process of these forms improve is better than getting instant gratification. Let’s say Goku uses UI like Whis against Gas what then Goku can’t strive for anything

[@dwightnorton3398]

A Mysterious power up

[@majackslelo827]

My Brother!🫡🫡🫡

[@DeadOmen69]

DBS powerscaling sucks 😭 Even gammas from super hero is implied stronger than JIREN 💀

[@nickalas666]

u realize a lot of people is stronger than jiren right?.just because u want ur favourite character to be the strongest doesn't mean the story should follow your logic

[@TheReZisTLust]

Its cause he is set as a Universes strongest is why hes comparing them to Jirens level @@nickalas666

[@thewolfbeast816]

Uhm! Vegeta is stronger than jiren, too, so does that suck.

[@DeadOmen69]

@thewolfbeast816 no everyone knows vegeta is stronger 😂 than jiren

[@thewolfbeast816]

@jithamithrank7647 but you're right. The powerscaling in dbs sucks

[@JRD876]

Bro it's the "Modern-day" Dragon Ball it ain't really geared to us 90s baby

[@GeteMachine]

Super's forms are just too convoluted at times and I think they should have kept it simple.

[@barimakwadwoofori-akuffo240]

I need that background track 😭

[@GeteMachine]

I just don't like that its another transformation instead of a technique, because the scaling will just be forever off now. Super won't know how to balance it, and if it was a technique he could use used it with base or SSB to improve that even more, considering how poor of a trackrecord blue has (though its better in the manga). If it was a technique it would fit better with EoZ where Goku is still in base.

[@Santzu_]

...he literally combined God and Blue with UI and used it in base in the manga. Istg db fans haven't seen the show

[@TheWatchPartyForever]

If we are bing real all of his transformations in S have kinda been like that with how fast he is able to reach or master forms.

[@GeteMachine]

0:57 I don't know if Toriyama did those art clips or not, but seeing that compared to Toyotaro's art, I definitely think that image and the others like it look better. More angular and closer to the later manga. Toyotaro should go for that.... unless its Youngjijii who I just think is a better artist, stylistically for dragonball.

[@DummyAcoustic]

Ultra Instinct isn't a form or a transformation it's an angelic technique Goku isn't able to use it effectively which is why even with God Ki Goku uses other transformations also using the anime and the manga is completely backwards especially considering the fact if you read the manga the entire TOP was completely different from the Anime most people are straw picking and are ignoring the messages that all of his masters taught him

[@ChangeOfForm]

Poor writing has ruined such incredible ideas.

[@GeteMachine]

A lot of inconsistency and Toriyama being too vague with his descriptions.

[@krpowe6663]

​@@GeteMachineAnd sometimes people simply not thinking at all.

[@nickalas666]

nothing about ui has been ruining u only think that because u can't read or u just listen to what people say and take it as gospel

[@ChangeOfForm]

@@nickalas666 you seem mad

[@nickalas666]

@@ChangeOfFormnope just pointing out the obvious

[@Animeisfun551]

Stop hating on dragon ball super like dang (ultra instinct had a story to it since the beginning of dragon ball super and was perfectly handled your just hating now

[@Animeisfun551]

I would even call it more handled than ssj

[@申月営無営月無営有申]

Nah😂

[@onekidgamer577]

Never cook again

[@eveofinprov2600]

Agreed. Dragon Ball fans don’t pay attention to their own show OR manga, and can’t differentiate them both either.

[@申月営無営月無営有申]

Nah😂

[@Potent-potential]

To be real with y’all I don’t really like ultra instinct from a narrative stand point,it really renders all the other forms obsolete dragon ball is about surpassing your limits and I feel like UI betrays that also UI’s fluctuating level of power is just annoying to me one minute it can be one shoting Moro another goku is using true ultra instinct which inferior to perfected UI and yet he still chooses to use TUI.

[@eveofinprov2600]

ngl, this your worst video

[@lucasdanziger79]

The buu saga and DBS just killed dragon ball.

[@pric3lessl0s3r5]

Opinions like this ruin my liking for DB fans

[@CallMeIAN1]

buu saga truly is underrated.

[@shadowspringtrap3122]

Same... a lot of DB fans either can't read or don't watch their show, idiolize DBZ too much and most of time ignore/hate anything that comes after (Super).​@pric3lessl0s3r5