The Queer History of The Oscars

From Moonlight to Power of the Dog - let's talk about the LGBTQ+ history (and future) of the Academy Awards! The Queer Movie Podcast: / queermoviepod
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Co-host Jazza: / jazzajohn
Editing by Matthew Gilpin: / matthewgilpincom
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[@goblinwizard735]

I need a montage of queer people doing their impressions of a straight man. NEED.

[@mr.horrorchild4094]

Sadly, they never get it quite right.

[@lordsp]

Pretty much any musical on Broadway

[@Alchemist1330]

"Is that your impression of a Straight man?" "Fuck you"

[@i_am_Emmet]

32:33

[@mandipandi303]

Ian McKellen was nominated for his performance as James Whale in Gods and Monsters. It was nice to see a gay person play a gay character and be nominated for an Oscar.

[@FOJO27]

@31:32 Rowan mentioned this 😊🏳️‍🌈

[@revolutionofthekind]

I wish more people talked about Boys Dont't Cry and how harmful it was to trans men. I watched it as a teen and it made me absolutely despairing about how i would be viewed and my chances for survival as a trans guy. Not to mention all the writing around it literally misgendered Brandon Tina and fetishized him to no end. Absolutely horrifying

[@flask223]

Agree

[@AxlTheo]

My mom, unbeknownst to me, watched ”Boys don’t cry” when I came out in order to ”understand me better”. Needless to say it sent her into hysterics. She still talks about it sometimes, over a decade later.

[@OurGalaxieSystemIsQueer]

it was completely traumatizing and I regret watching it. Just made me stay in the closet longer.

[@PamperedDuchess]

@@OurGalaxieSystemIsQueer Even as a trans woman, "Boys Don't Cry" scared the crap out of me. Growing up in a rural environment not unlike where Brandon lived, I knew immediately that I'd be in the closet longer and had to GTFO my hometown.

[@voidify3]

The misgendering is so bizarre in some cases. I was reading an acting textbook (the intent to live by Larry moss) and it was generally a great source but then suddenly there’s a paragraph about how Hilary swank used understanding of objectives to deliver a believable performance in Boys Don’t Cry and the prose is like “the movie is about a young woman who wants a sex change. Her superobjective is to live as a man.” (paraphrased but “sex change” is exact words; there was a lot more misgendering for an entire paragraph) like Jesus man you correctly identified Brandon’s superobjective as transition why are you still misgendering him?

[@junglekiity]

Thank you for reminding me that Elliot page was nominated for an Acting Oscar. Imagine how amazing it would be if he was the first person nominated for both Best Actress and Best Actor Awards.

[@CyreneDuVent]

Something relevant to queer movies in general: There's a youtuber called James Somerton who has just started a production company called Telos Pictures, with the specific purpose of telling queer stories of all types and genres. It's got an ongoing Indigogo which has managed to raise a crazy amount of money - there's two short films and two series already going into production, and almost enough at this point for a feature film! This honestly isn't even an attempt to get people to donate, I'm just really excited about what comes next and I wanted to let other people know to look out for it

[@sworddragonsliege]

It is very exciting, I agree.

[@cooperino]

Yes!! It's really cool and more people need to know about it

[@TheCowgirlgem]

And if you like Rowans video essays you will probably enjoy James Somertons as well.

[@tananario]

@@TheCowgirlgem “Enjoy”? Maybe if you are a masochist. And get off on scolds.

[@mothma_am]

@@tananario what exactly is a, your point, and b, your obsession with her videos?

[@david_8924]

With this year's awards, we had Ariana DeBose as the first queer woman of colour to win in an acting category. And Kristen Stewart was nominated for Best Actress. Additionally, in terms of disability representation, Troy Kotsur won Best Supporting Actor.

[@liloa03]

Benedict cumberbatch lived with Tom Hardy, eddy redmayne and Andrew garfield (and Robert Pattinson, the dude from 50 shades of grey, and Charlie Cox) these are men who grew up going to boarding schools and private education but were progressive for their time, thinking about Andrew garfield alluding to kissing boys back in 2009 and questioning interviewers who would joke about queerness. So, its no wonder the four of them have been at the top of the metaphorical "are they gay" lists since they were in their 20s, they weren't homophobic and they were comfortable in their sexuality and then were labelled as possibly fruity. Going back to the idea that queer kids find each other, although a few in their group have explicitly stated they are straight, they have always been progressive compared to other parts of Hollywood when they were up and coming in the 2000s

[@lucypreece7581]

Jamie Dornan.

[@RachaelTheRed]

Robert Pattinson wasn't in 50 Shades of Gray. He was the vampire in the Twilight franchise.

[@maxventunosei5017]

@@RachaelTheRed the person put a "," in between!

[@rymhrnblkc]

i mean tom hardy and benedict cumberbatch are from a different generation than the other guys and they weren’t a part of their group, it’s just a british thing i guess

[@serenity6831]

Love this so far, just starting! Just to clarify, "Oscars So White" what started by a *black* woman and popularized by *black* people in response to the homogenous whiteness that permeates the Oscars. This distinction from the general "POC" is important.

[@sewnetvids]

Yes, serenity, this is so important to point out. This drives me crazy when people don't acknowledge this fact.

[@violaivy]

Laverne Cox was also in Promising Young Woman, playing the main character's colleague/friend and I don't remember any mention of her character being trans. And that film is a Oscar nominee/winner.

[@kristinhigginbotham1881]

and Ariana DuBose has now won best supporting actress!!

[@evabrachfeld5552]

the conversation about benedict cumberbatch reminds me of the billie eilish "queerbaiting" scandal from like a year ago -- it's for sure different because billie was like 18 but it feels similar to me in that it puts us as viewers/fans in this uncomfortable place of feeling guilty for wanting some actual representation and celebrities to identify with

[@aadkinsl3095]

Benedict Cumberbatch and Billie Eilish are real people, who don't owe anyone representation. While it would certainly been cool to have an openly queer pop star like Billie or A+ list actor like Ben C, at the end of the day their sexuality is their business. While I totally get wanting representation, it's not healthy to expect that from entertainers, who, at the end of the day, are just people doing a job (albeit an incredibly public one).

[@mysticdigital5936]

@@aadkinsl3095 They are wealthy people who have put *themselves* in the public spotlight. Celebrities do not get a pass to queerbait audiences by not identifying or being "ambiguous." Becuase queerbaiting is EXACTLY what that ism

[@aadkinsl3095]

​@@mysticdigital5936 They are, and I cannot stress this enough, real people who don't exist solely for your consumption. I understand that having your sexuality interrogated or being speculated on comes with being a public figure, but that doesn't mean they owe an explanation of their sexuality to anyone. We don't expect normal queer people to out themselves for someone else's benefit, so why would we expect the same from celebrities?

[@mcchilde2903]

@@mysticdigital5936 would you say the same to a regular person who doesn't label their sexuality? If not, why would you say that to a celebrity

[@redactedredacted6656]

Only 5 minutes it and immediately thought of the racist and homophobic backlash against Ariana DeBose. There's people acting like it's absurd and box-ticking for a real person to be queer and not white. Literally anybody from any background can be queer. I'm thrilled for her and she's incredible.

[@aurifulgore]

I have noticed people who have been homophobic or racist switch to the "anti box ticking" rhetoric because they can white knight as those in the minority, particularly online. It's very dangerous because that was largely started by those communities to fight against lgbt/poc capitalism just because there is now a market, and to teach people to avoid tokenism.

[@maximilianosalvador9559]

Funny how 10 hours later there actually is an openly queer Oscar winner

[@corduroy799]

I feel that "Love Simon" reaction so hard. I watched "When Marnie Was There" (NOT an actual queer film but has the subtext) and "Falsettos" (musical, go watch it pleaseee) and I absolutely sobbed. I felt wrecked, like seeing my experiences reflected on screen caused such a raw experience while watching.

[@jennaozzy6863]

Trigger warning: mention of childhood trauma I have to say, when you started with mentioning the awful laws we used to face in the UK and here in Canada as well I got to rethinking something: With all the fears from direct childhood trauma I had regarding being a trans woman and knowing since 4 1/2, I never ever would have made it if the societal changes here in Canada hadn't happened. Even with all the progress we still need it is a thousand times better than it was when I was a child. Keep fighting! And allies please get LOUD now!! We need you so much, and the ones who would oppress us all are really focusing on trans people (especially women) to try to break us off the LGBTQIA+ crowd, they'll go for the next group right after if they succeed, and I think people are starting to really know that. Any other trans/queer people out there: you are valid, you are real, you are enough, and you are deserving of love and respect! Never ever forget that

[@homohawk]

Will do! ❤Glad you made it through and hopefully will not just survive but thrive.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

This was such a fun video! Several points were made and I’m happy and privileged to subscribe to Queer-Affirming Content.

[@UmbraKrameri]

Benedict Cumberbatch also said in an interview that taking a trans role (in Zoolander, I think?) was a mistake and he wouldn't do it know. Interesting to compare to his answer to the playing gay roles question. Personally, I always feel very bad for the actors when they get the heat for taking those roles that could go to an actor representing a minority. I mean, it really isn't their fault the system is so fucked up. And sure, above a certain level of fame they can choose their projects, but being very picky, especially with big directors would tarnish their reputation, possibly irrevocably if they keep doing it. Plus, when a certain type of role (in BC's case gay men) get them closer to the coveted Academy Award than anything else, it isn't shocking they jump on the opportunity to do more of that. (Plus, in this concrete case, the joke is on us, I guess, because halfway through award season apparently everyone had an epiphany and decided that CODA is a much better movie.)

[@pearlhouzukiinthereal]

adorably watches this during the ads of the 2022 oscars

[@HeyRowanEllis]

Cheeky little pre-party I like it

[@craftlouder-elsie6322]

Hi Rowan, I don't know if you have read 'The seven husbands Evelyn Hugo' but it seems really relevant to this conversation and like something you would appreciate. :)

[@bexyPTX]

I know that it's not the point but your suggestion that based on his comment Benedict Cumberbatch could theoretically be secretly bi or pan or something is gonna linger in my brain for a while

[@mr.horrorchild4094]

I believe he may be poly and gender outlaw

[@KingApeiron]

gay, working class, and trans... ah yes, the three genders

[@keyboarddancers7751]

Let's all give a big round of applause to *Will Smith* and *Chris Rock* for raising the general public's interest in the Oscars again.

[@novemberjohns672]

Lmao nobody cares about the Oscars or your agenda. People love to see someone get hit. Don’t be flattered: Hollywood is down. Leftist agendas are down. CNN is down. Disney is down. Everything you associate yourself with somehow winds up in the same state. Down.

[@chestersnap]

As a nonbinary aroace person, I, too would like to just skip to the authentic representation part of this process

[@Eggsther]

eyyyy, fellow aro ace agender here, totally agree

[@moerakibeachbumb]

That would be great. btw, also aroace.

[@edamamame4U]

Biromantic ace here! I could not agree more. I am so tired of aces being portrayed as either heartless, narcissistic brainiacs like L from Death Note or Sherlock Holmes or infantilized like children like the character in Sex Education.The only positive ace representation that I actually saw was in the book Raybearer (don't want to give away who it is if you haven't read the book) and I actually wept I want to see real stories about relationships be like platonic or romantic), growth, fun, and life.

[@quirkyblackenby]

Twins!

[@sexytinatrainconductress7791]

Fellow non binary are ace just wanted to say hi I’ve genanly never seen someone with the same identity as me also yes I agree totally

[@Adrian_1114]

Thanks for introducing the podcast. Gonna binge some episodes now :)

[@iggyelle]

Wonderful video. I feel very conflicted as well when it comes to presumably straight actors playing gay/bi characters. The knee jerk is no, but then again...we have Ewan McGregor who has played multiple queer roles and off hand the only one that could be considered tragically gay is...Halston? He's always been an outlier to me because he'll kiss a man onscreen, do very explicit sex scenes, and ofc, there's more to being queer than sexual e expression, but when you compare other "straight" actors in similar roles, it's often more in-name-only or terribly chaste. It's hard, you know. Because there are some actors willing to go all the way. Really commit and treat roles seriously. Buttttt...if they're considered straight, is it still good representation?

[@babymilksnatcher]

McGregor is a special case, because he's been doing this openly queer rep since the beginning of his career in Section 28 era Great Britain. His character in Shallow Grave had a penchant for crossdressing, and Trainspotting is rife with homoerotic undertones (though the sequel delves a little further in that)

[@idonotresidehere.5709]

The issue w requiring gay charachters to be played by gay actors is that you end up making someones personal life relevant to their hiring. You end up w Kit Connor situations. Sure its ideal for the actor to be gay but its ok if theyre not. Its different w not wanting trans women to be played by men and vise versa bc the impact is greater (supports the idea that trans women are just men in wigs) and also, people's gender is generally already public knowledge, it requires no outing. Edit: Just realized I basically just repeated what Rowan said lol.

[@mikaylaeager7942]

I am so happy for Ariana DeBose though!! She is so beautiful and talented and she was just incredible as Anita!! I have such a crush on her and that red dress… 🔥

[@tengwarsenna]

The queerness in Black Swan feels malevolent to me. That is the first word I think of.

[@IzzysTravelDiaries]

People always forget Melrose Place had a gay character. I think it was the first time I saw a gay man on TV and that in the 90s in Hungary was almost shocking. Also the first Sailor Moon weirdly had a lot of gay characters and watching a cartoon with that at the age of 12 was fascinating.

[@espurrlady3397]

Great video, Rowan and Jazza!! Yes, about the costumes- the costumes for Little Women were HOT GARBAGE (unlike the rest of the movie) and yet they still won. So many people who knew about costuming were scratching their heads.

[@quincyquiz]

another category that you can tell the academy knows nothing about is animation - anyone who knows anything about animated films will know which are the best of the year, but most of the time the best of the year never even gets nominated...and of the nominees, they almost always just give it to pixar without even bothering to watch the others

[@bekah5935]

It’s ironic that once queer people are out they arnt aloud to play straight charcters but straight charcters can play gay ones because queer people are the ones who have been playing straight characters all our lives we’ve master the roll

[@archiejohnston8]

i agree that that is true in a lot of cases, but thankfully people like Ian McKellen, Ariana DeBose, Neil Patrick Harris, are able to cross over that divide

[@beatrizgaspar6697]

theres two queer actresses playing straight women nominaged for oscars in 2022, wtf are u on about?

[@safs3098]

Bad take, many queer actors play straight or ambiguous characters, just as many straight actors played queer characters, since you know... it's called acting, being queer isn't a physical characteristic for it to matter in casting. But these days, queer actors playing straight is ok but straight actors playing queer characters isn't, tho most people hopefully don't care about this nonsense, since you know... it's acting

[@bekah5935]

@@safs3098 bad take did you watch the video? Queer people don’t want to come out for fear of it effecting there cerear

[@safs3098]

@@bekah5935 yes, back 50 years ago it did effect their career. Now? With all this push for LGBT representation, every studio trying to add diversity in everything, do you really think it still would? Casting a queer actor is probably a massive plus for the corporate higher ups since they think it's the new hip thing and they like to signal to the youth that they're cool, just like how they act all friendly in pride week. It really isn't that big of a deal now unless they have personal reasons.

[@mahnoorkhan7601]

I think also important that when people talk about Queer History what they often mean is Western (American) queer history and they kinda completely ignore Eastern queer history

[@thema1998]

This was clearly made before Ariana DeBose, the "bullet" from Hamilton and Anita from West Side Story 2021, became the first openly queer woman of color to win an acting award at the Oscars.

[@jazzajohn]

The guest is hot, but in a totally accessible way.

[@allialias]

😊👍✌️

[@PokhrajRoy.]

I agree ♥️

[@nefarneshin]

Do NOT forget Benedict Cumberbatch in "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy". His character is gay but the only scene where he's shown to be gay is super sad.

[@dragonchan8234]

Is it just me or is the audio slightly sped up? its really distracting, i cant help but keep focusing on the slight warbling

[@KingApeiron]

that's just the LGBTimedilation effect of when two queer people come into close proximity, time slows down and it seems like they're speaking faster

[@mpearson1280]

I have started watching all Rowan vids at 3/4 speed. They are alway too fast for me to listen to without feeling anxiety.

[@cheshirecandy]

yeah I was wondering the same thing, there appears to be some sort of echo-y reverb on Rowan's mic as well. It might be the acoustics of the room she's in (if the walls are very bare) but the subtly sped-up sound is definitely something I also picked up on.

[@smileyface702]

No, I hear this, too.

[@pagano60]

I wish I could talk that fast and that articulately.

[@starrysar]

just putting it out there that i would be v happy if you decided to get a letterboxd 👀

[@bts_vinyl]

This video was great! I immediately went and listened to your podcast episode about The Power of the Dog afterwards. I'm rooting for Kristen Stewart tonight. Hopefully some more queer Oscars history will be made.

[@caitie226]

completely shocked by those kate winslet comments. I suppose we’ll look back on everything differently in a few years?

[@k.b.42]

I could listen to you both talk about queer movies all day long tbh, this video was a treat!

[@violaivy]

When it comes to sexuality (=not trans characters) I don't have an issue with straight actors playing queer roles, as long as the portayal is respectful. Especially for roles where the character's sexuality isn't the main story, it's just a fact about them. If only LGBTQIA actors can play queer roles that means they have to be out publicly and open about their private life which is just not it. And it could lead to queer actors being typecast. Another important point is who's behind the camera and in charge of the story. The latter is usually not the actors (unless they're also one of the producers but this is rare). Even with a queer actor in a role with the best intentions, things can go wrong if the director, writers etc aren't aware what makes good representation and think in stereotypes (even if accidentally). Yes, if the actor is queer, it can help but it's not their job to fix representation issues and rewrite things.

[@sammyelliott_]

I found your podcast entirely by coincidence and I haven't started listening to it but if its like this then i know im going to love it.

[@DieVorleserin-ok8zr]

I just clicked on this video because it had my favorite-of-all-time movie on the thumbnail. :)

[@paleylewis7440]

This is going to mean nothing to anybody else. But I was trying to figure out where I've heard Jazza speak before, went through their channel to see if i watch any of the videos but then it clicked!! They have the exact same accent (I'm american) as James Grime on Numberphile. The S sounds are exactly the same, I'm so proud of my self for digging in the recesses of my mind for that connection. I wonder if their both from a similar place in the UK, though i have no freaking clue. xD

[@Kmeyo414]

Great vid. Im def showing this to my students tommorrow!

[@smileyface702]

What do you teach?

[@Kmeyo414]

@@smileyface702 I teach 3 courses but one of them is on visual anthropology( from a western and Indigenous point of view) and this will great when we talk about our next unit on representation and diversity in contemporary media! Sorry for the long rant

[@smileyface702]

Interesting discussion. I needed to turn the speed down to 0.75 and that suited me well

[@flask223]

44:53 live jazza reaction

[@marinashutup]

I really enjoyed this!

[@Anonymous-gw6sc]

Hello, Rowan. I just want to say that I love the thought and the depth of research you put into making these beautiful videos. There was one topic which I wanted to discuss with the queer community at large. This is not related to the topic of this particular video. Do you feel that sometimes, in order to give good queer representation, we end up getting LGBTQ+ characters who are just morally good rather than being as flawed and complex as a real person (done by the authors etc. to avoid getting backlash for having represented a queer character with moral flaws in today's world where LGBTQ+ rights have to be fought for)? I would love to hear your views.

[@MrKadirbey]

Verilybitchie has a great video on this called "good lgbt represantion is boring"

[@Anonymous-gw6sc]

@@MrKadirbey Thanks a ton. I just saw that video and it was great.

[@Anonymous-gw6sc]

@@ChantelCarter-cc7cu Agreed. In fact, now that you say it, in many stories where we have morally bad cis and straight characters, we also have many good ones, thereby, decoupling villany from sexuality. If queer representation is done in a similar manner (which, I am pretty sure must have been done somewhere), it would greatly help propagate the fact that queer people may not all be angels without linking villany to queerness. Also, thanks a lot for responding.

[@Lisa_Flowers]

@@Anonymous-gw6sc I think the issue is specifically villainy has never been attached to cisheterosexuality. If anything, cisheterosexuality has been associated with positive morality, especially in religious or social or familial institutions, as something symbolising fertility, monetary benefit, the passing on of families and culture, and in some religion's, part of a deities perfect plan for humanity. It is quite literally put on a pedestal, so of course there is wiggle room for cishet characters to be awful and complex and flawed without that reflecting poorly on cisheterosexuality in general. Whereas immorality has been VERY explicitely and implicitly been attached to queerness, from it being a crime for many years and still currently in many places, to the hays code, to queercoded villains, to section 28 in schools, to religious punishments or threats of burning in hell. The idea that being queer is morally indecent or perverse or inappropriate is still so deeply entrenched in many people's heads - it's why it's such a common argument against queer representation in children's entertainment that's LGBTQIA+ topics are inherently 'inappropriate' or why the trans community is always presented as preying on children or cis women. Queerness has been in recent history associated with immorality for far longer than it has been decoupled from it. So saying that cisheterosexuality has been decoupled from moral character doesn't do anything for queer people because we're just not treated the same. I agree that it's important to have queer characters that are flawed and realistic, an not just perfect humans meant to communicate to cisheteronormative society that we're actually not all gross deviants. But it can't really be denied that that connection is still very entrenched in society and that has to be taken into account when writing more complex queer characters. It's hard to write flawed but fundamentally respected and humanised queer characters without falling into and emphasising shitty and destructive stereotypes that already exist in people's heads. Essentially, how do you write queer characters that are flawed while not feeding into the internal bias a lot of people consciously and subconsciously have about queer people being morally corrupt in some way?

[@Anonymous-gw6sc]

@@Lisa_Flowers Thank you for your comment. It really gave me a lot of perspective. Love it when people take out the time to carry forward a discussion.

[@annesophie22]

Now we have Ariana De Bose who is an openly queer woman of colour!

[@dreamcookie5742]

I found this viedio radomly and then noticed that i watched your podcast for a week now on spotify Im so happy i found your youtube

[@heartlknj]

Bit irrelevant but what dye do you use on your hair? It looks amazing!

[@DrTssha]

Now I'm wondering how many decades it'll be before we see tragic (and problematically written) Genderfluid stories being performed by cis actors. ...I'll probably still watch them though.

[@Lisa_Flowers]

And how many decades more before they're POC and black specifically lol

[@schmauften]

Interested in how you've edited this... have you moved things out of order? It feels like points don't flow from one to the other but jump about?

[@violetfolgi]

Is it just me or is your sound much better in this video? (or louder! I usually feel like the highest volume is a bit too low in your videos but not here 🥰! thank you lots if you did improve it somehow, it's great!)

[@winterfire1097]

Bill Hader I think has only played Straight perhaps like twice? Lol Richie Tozier (IT Chapter 2)- Gay🏳‍🌈 Milo (Skeleton Twins)-Gay🏳‍🌈 Dr. Aaron Connors (Trainwreck)- Straight💙 Stefon Myers (SNL)-Pansexual perhaps? Or maybe even Trysexual. Lol Pool manager (The To-Do-List)- Straight💙 Nick Clause (Noelle)- not sure... 🤔 Also a HUGE congrats to Jessica Chastain for her portrayal of Tammy Faye a woman who honestly tried to push Christians to act like Christians should and love those who are hurting.

[@cristagalli96]

So I couldn't remember when Anthony Perkins died and googled it. (1992 btw) I then read about his wife, Benny Berenson, who he had two children with and who stayed with him until his death. And then I read that she died on Sep. 11, 2001 on Flight 11 when it crashed into the North Tower. Like holy shit was that NOT what I was expecting.

[@wenae4184]

This is a bit off topic but since the power of the dog was mentioned, can anyone offer some insight as to why the “no animals were harmed” disclaimer was omitted from the credits. Was the bull harmed when cumberbatch castrated it or were there medical personnel on set to ensure that everything was in order. Im deeply concerned…

[@snowwhite5405]

Great video but Rowan’s audio is messed up. Jazza’s is fine, but it sounds like there are two Rowan’s. Audio channel issue?

[@saoirsedeltufo7436]

Hearing Power of the Dog being talked about as a shoe-in for the Oscar... fuck. In fairness what did I expect from Oscar voters! Flee getting nothing was more disappointing

[@emilyhall9244]

Can someone tell me at what point in the video they discuss Boys don't cry I'm curious but don't have the time to watch the full video right now thank you in advance

[@iamqueenangelina]

Have y’all discussed how there is still only male and female categories. How do you think they should start including 3rd gender or non-binary people into categories? Would love to hear discussion on this.

[@iamqueenangelina]

@@ChantelCarter-cc7cu Good suggestion

[@wilhelmhedin8845]

thank you

[@ananananabop]

I have a migraine and it took me 15 minutes to realize this was sped up! I thought it was just my brain 😶‍🌫 I'm really enjoying this, but if you'd allow some feedback: If it's sped up in the original upload, you can't listen to it at regular speed (the only option to slow down playback makes everyone sound d r u nk. As it, is it's a little bit too fast for me to take in one go without getting tired. But that may be because I'm autistic so it may not be an issue for a lot of people. I will be back to listen when I have a bit more energy and hopefully the algorithm will respect my ·add to watch later·. This is a really interesting topic and it's not much talked about, I'm enjoying y'all's conversation style a lot

[@sternchenEtoile]

I was looking through the comments to find out if anyone else felt like this...

[@sternchenEtoile]

You can customize the speed in the settings though, 0.9 worked way better for me! :)

[@t0b3yyy16]

When it comes to the topic of cis people playing trans roles: I'd love to see for example a cis woman to play a trans woman who has transitioned and most people around her don't know she's trans.

[@Pan-optic]

Toni Collette played a trans woman in Transamerica. It's been a long time since I watched that movie, so I don't know how well it holds up, but at the time I thought the depiction was pretty ok. Like, there's one character who does the shouting-in-horror-when-finding-she's-trans (tm), but she is never the butt of the joke.

[@redactedredacted6656]

I would prefer for trans actors to play trans characters because trans actors don't have the countless opportunities cis actors do. But there was a trans female character played by a cis woman in a British soap opera in the 2000s and that character changed the way a lot of people thought about trans people.

[@harrietamidala1691]

@@Pan-optic Felicity Hoffman played the lead in Transamerica, not Toni Collette

[@Pan-optic]

@@harrietamidala1691 I seem to have been thinking they were the same person for several years, so this is good information to have.

[@bekah5935]

“Obviously closeted people like Marilyn monroe” excuse me WHAT SHE WAS QUEER????

[@starpasta]

Same! I had no idea!

[@calci2679]

Yup. Bisexual

[@cheshirecandy]

Yeah there's been lots of discussions whether she was queer, she apparently expressed thoughts about it herself and wrote about attraction to women in her diary I believe ☺️

[@chloe-fy4wc]

Yeah, definitely into women, also possibly asexual

[@smileyface702]

I had this reaction, too.

[@TheCowgirlgem]

I am with Jazza on team Make Bobby Gay! I just want to watch the Iceman/Daken tension on the big screen!

[@OurGalaxieSystemIsQueer]

Did anyone watch "Spencer"? A sort of fiction story about Princess Diana played by Kristen Stewart. She's nominated for best actress. But the movie was terrible, tons of intense music building around quiet dinners and culminating with someone laying down a fork. And it weirdly brought in this queer baiting relationship with Diana's dresser/personal assistant who turns out to be in love with Diana. But of course nothing comes of it. Anyways, I wanted to bring it up because it was so weird to have this random queerness brought into the life of Diana, and even weirder that Kristen Stewart is up for best actress for it. It's like, yay for a queer woman being nominated. But for what reason? And why bring in queerness at all, since it wasn't that relevant to the rest of the story? The only reason I can come up with is that the queer woman who loves Diana shows us that Diana is loveable, and gives us a sense that she's not entirely alone. But it's queerbaiting nonetheless. The relationship can never be realized. And we don't even get closure about it. So this long rant was just to get my feelings out about Kristen's nomination and how terrible that movie was. Thanks for reading, lol!

[@BambiTrout]

I haven't got around to watching Spencer yet, but the thing with Pablo Larrain (the director) is that he doesn't usually do traditional narrative structure or character writing. The story is not the focus of the movie; the point is to understand the person and get in their vibe. He likes his actors to inhabit these real people and then imagine what they were like in the quiet moments when the cameras were off. Admittedly, if you're not expecting this, it can throw you off, because you're looking for different things than his movie is selling. Diana was well-known for spending more time with the royal staff than the royal family because she felt confined by their traditions and restrictions and permanent propriety - she wanted someone she could talk to like a normal person. It was also public knowledge that Charles didn't love her romantically, and that the royal family generally viewed her as overly emotional and sometimes improper. She also happened to be beautiful and beloved by the public. The assistant is likely just meant as of one of the royal staff, and means little more to the PLOT...but from a character perspective, if I had to guess from your description, I would say that she represents what Diana truly wants in a relationship: someone who listens to her, and someone who loves her unconditionally. I might revisit this comment once I've actually watched the movie if I remember!

[@OurGalaxieSystemIsQueer]

@@BambiTrout I appreciate your perspective! Thanks for sharing. I agree the staff member represents how Diana wants to be loved. It would have been lovely to see more of it in the film.

[@clairekim2525]

I couldn't disagree more about the movie being terrible. I absolutely love Pablo Larrain as a director, and I found the tense, thriller-like atmosphere to be extremely effective. It's definitely not meant to be a traditional biopic. I like your potential interpretation of the queerness of the assistant character, and I'm wondering if it might also have to do with the theme of feeling constantly trapped and scrutinized at all times, having a character who can somehow empathize with Diana? I'm not 100% sure.

[@pompitousoflove]

benadryl cucumber

[@recoveringintrovert717]

I need to know who the man is in this video. I didn't catch his name and it's not in the title/description. He's DELIGHTFUL and so handsome 😍

[@archiejohnston8]

Jazza John!

[@flask223]

Good video

[@tomg268]

Why would you say ‘cut to me, cut to you’ and not include a chuckle brothers clip?

[@v4leree]

can someone comment all the movies they mentioned?

[@rafaela00002]

Comment for the algorithm 💕

[@mr.horrorchild4094]

Remember:we are all the same inside, but the outside and how we get our rocks off is how we label each other

[@snehapradhan5591]

❤️

[@MG-hz7wi]

They call it acting. So why is it okay for a cis person to play a non-cis role, but not for a non-cis person to play a cis role? Isn't that what acting is about-playing someone that you are not? An actor should be as versatile as their talent allows. A few centuries ago, women weren't allowed to play any roles. It's just a weird outdated double standard

[@archiejohnston8]

One of the issues i think is cis men specifically are playing trans women which perpetuates the stereotype that trans women are just men pretending to be women

[@archiejohnston8]

like that’s the most common form of that divide

[@safs3098]

I've not seen any instance of people criticising queer actors playing straight characters, maybe you have so you could enlighten me on that? the other way around tho, people lose their minds when cis people play queer characters these days, that's mostly twitter tho.

[@yhenestik]

Baffled that this video doesn't even mention midnight cowboy, especially when referring to "gay cowboy movies" lol

[@AndEzutarian]

Do you think Marvel and DC tv shows have so much more queer rep than their movies comes down simply to budget? I would wonder if dying broadcast TV encourages showrunners to add more rep as the TV version of clickbait but most Marvel shows were exclusively streaming after Agents of Shield.

[@KingApeiron]

the TV shows don't air in China and can have more representation without fear of lost China moneys

[@AndEzutarian]

@@KingApeiron It's not China's fault people in the U.S. are homophobic. That's a fallacious twitter soundbite.

[@caitie226]

jazza face reveal!

[@babydollface]

wait, why is the video sped-up?

[@mpearson1280]

Most likely to keep it under an hour. I feel like all of her vids are sped up and have started playing them at 3/4 for my comfort.

[@HeyRowanEllis]

It’s not sped up we are just British and have ADHD and talk fast lol

[@cheshirecandy]

@@HeyRowanEllis Fair enough! But the audio quality and speed is quite different on your podcast. And while you both do speaking fast, here it's almost like the video has gone through some sort of compression/filter/post processor. 🤔

[@bzztthundaa]

💘💘💘

[@80schick1967]

Although he was actually outed shortly before his nomination, I thought that Nigel Hawthorne was the first openly gay actor to be nominated for an Oscar for "The Madness of King George" (1994), except I guess he didn't play a gay character...I'll get my coat 🙄

[@NoFirstNoLastName]

I was so sad about Boys Don’t Cry, because I know Hilary Swank probably gave her all, had an emotional connection to it and felt it was important to the subject of hate crimes, BUT I hope she realizes just how problematic it is now. Sure, it’s based on a true story, but it’s incredibly misrepresentative of the story and it contributes to the fear trans people have to transition. And that’s why cis and non-queer people playing these roles is a problem. Not because I don’t doubt some of them truly want to do justice by the LGBT, but because an LGBT person needs to tell the story. And don’t get me started on queer POC needing to be represented in the stories of the AIDS crisis and Stonewall. I am a white bisexual and I need my story represented but it is NOT that story. That belongs to a specific group.

[@ConcreteAfterRain]

comment

[@mooncapone4556]

Hi

[@maxventunosei5017]

Answer

[@SatansRoerhat]

🌈🌈

[@varinajones7444]

"Make Bobby gay", I'm sorry but did you see the original X-Men trilogy? Did you see the way he looked longingly at Hugh Jackman while gently blowing on his Coke bottle? How his crushes were some of the most transparent comphet crushes I've ever seen in my life (the one girl in school who absolutely won't try to smash and, you know, ELLIOT PAGE). Also he got the coming out scene. Do I want them to make it not subtext, to explicitly state that Bobby gay? Of course. Was he straight in the original trilogy? Absolutely not, how very dare (Also Brokeback Mountain is a gay shepherd movie. Those were sheep. No one else cares. This is my pettiest of pet peeves)

[@sewnetvids]

A: Jodie Foster has won two Academy Awards and has been nominated four times. B: I don't think that Brokeback Mountain should be viewed as the modern starting point of the Academy recognizing gay stories. That happened more explicitly in the 90s. I am genuinely surprised that Philadelphia was not even mentioned in this video. The movie did win two major Academy Awards, and its nomination in multiple categories was a BIG deal. As others have pointed out, Boys Don't Cry received Academy recognition, as did Gods and Monsters, which did win in one of its nominated categories. Hell, even The Birdcage was nominated for an Oscar in a "minor" category. In my mind, there is NO WAY that Brokeback Mountain would've been considered for nomination if those nominations and wins hadn't come before it. Even so, I acknowledge that the movies I mentioned have some of the problematic issues you discuss. I'm usually so engaged by your content, I just wish a Wikipedia list hadn't been the starting off point for this discussion. C: As you are British, I I'd love to hear you do this kind of analysis on the BAFTAs.

[@lordsp]

I personally don't find any issues with cis/straight actors/actresses playing gay/trans people. The same I don't find any issues with gay actors/actresses playing straight characters in Theatre. Good acting should be the only requirement to be nominated for any award.

[@niklasmolen4753]

The fact that the Oscars committee has introduced representation requirements is a death blow. There will be many kinds of films that simply can not be nominated then. Especially historical films, or films that will take place in places with a homogeneous population, which is still common outside the United States and Western Europe.

[@hihi-nc6xm]

As we all know POC, gays and women were invented in 1990s California.

[@liloa03]

You realise to be apart of the representation requirements it just means you need a few women and poc behind the camera?? Did you even watch this years nominees? The power of the dog is so very white..

[@niklasmolen4753]

@@liloa03 The information I read is contradictory. According to some it applies behind or in front of the camera, but according to others it applies in front of and behind the camera. Regardless, it will be at the expense of the quality. There is already so much nepotism that no more restrictions are needed.

[@maplepainttube8158]

tbh, so many "historical" films are so inaccurate with even things like clothing, that drawing the line at some characters being POC seems arbitrary. If an aristocratic woman can wear a modern button up blouse and modern makeup with a modern half-up, half down hairstyle in a film set in the 1890s, then she can also be black, neither of those things has to affect the story as long as you don't draw attention to it in universe. And with the films actually based on historical events, I mean, history isn't as white as textbooks make it out to be, and besides, though some films pride themselves on actors' resemblance to the historical figures, many others will cast someone who doesn't look like the person as long as the performance is good, this shouldn't have to be any different.

[@niklasmolen4753]

@@maplepainttube8158 If you want to have POC in your film, there is lots of fantastic mythology and history from Africa you can use. But changing the race of characters in European mythology and history is wrong. It would have been more forgivable if it had been done in both directions. But it is always whites who turn black, never blacks who turn white. It is therefore only a political motivation and has nothing to do with the actor's skill. It is to obliterate a cultural identity. There is a word for it according to the UN definition. Remember that two wrong do not make one right.

[@mysticdigital5936]

Straight actors need to stop taking gay roles, period. Hollywood has a cycle of feeding the same actors roles maming it hard enough to break into acting, let alone being gay and relegated to gay roles and then having all of those taken. It is disreand not proper representation.

[@ivo8312]

i wont stand for this dog day afternoon slander - the trans woman isnt the main focus but the main character is still gay ??

[@ivo8312]

hmm did not think of that motive for making olden times movies but makes a whole lot of sense, especially like the "slavery bad" ive like felt that yknow but thank u for putting it into more eloquent words lol theres also a lot of olden time feminist shows like that which i always found annoying bc like cmon it was 200ya but i never thought about how the actual reason could be to distract from the current feminist issues. its been great to see more shows recently including metoo stories

[@fatalimmortality801]

Would also like to highlight that gays can be straight due to split attraction model and bi ppl that view themselves using the older understanding of “both gay and straight”

[@edwardwilliams2438]

Is this ALL a moot point? In time...we will all be non judgemental and impotent! Sex is exhausting and LOVE should me the target.

[@ruthfrumkin6944]

What is the difference of the effect of having a queer actor win best actor versus an actor of any gender or sexuality who plays a queer character win best actor instead? If people see a movie that the main character is queer, won't the same effect take place because those people are exposed to queerness?

[@tananario]

Your refusal to acknowledge gains is so cringe.

[@seto749]

The casual anti-gay banter between the presenters is rather off-putting.