The Rise and Fall of TVHM in Borderlands

[@Cashew1405]

What's your opinion on TVHM as a whole?

[@ItsSLAXZG]

Without op levels it’s goated and honestly chill

[@drunkenskunkproductionsdsp8094]

Done the best in 1 (it was called "playthrough 2 though), okay in Bl2, exists for some reason in the Pre-Sequel, and doesn't matter in 3.

[@a.grimes4202]

​@@drunkenskunkproductionsdsp8094Because 2K Australia were forced to use the BL2 engine for TPS.

[@keynanmartinez]

A Good Challenge.

[@Harrythe1st]

I think tvhm is a challenge because you don't have so many skill points that means that you get them on the way but I liked it more casual play vs uvhm, didn't even bother to get level 80 anymore

[@a.grimes4202]

Love me some TeleVision Hunter Mode.

[@ivegasliveentertainmentinc4698]

I see what you did there, the obvious was there and you took it.

[@justinpennington1649]

It’s actually true though, for bl3 new game plus I just took my headset out and played through with no volume and watched KZbin or a show lol

[@dulshafer]

I love BL2 TVHM. So much farming and options. But still feels like a setup for UVHM. So lots of things to do, but knowing it’s not the end, is a weird bittersweet feeling.

[@aleksiwilson2295]

I normally just blast through tvhm so i dont overlevel for the start of uvhm

[@theobell2002]

@@aleksiwilson2295 You literally cannot overlevel for UVHM. Not only because once you reach level 50, all the experience in TVHM is incredibly negligible but also because UVHM levels WITH you.

[@aleksiwilson2295]

@@theobell2002 yeah but you only get lvl 50 weapons in TVHM. Trying to down lvl 55 enemies with a lvl 50 gun sucks in uvhm. A way to get around this is farm the snowman boss if you have the dlc.

[@ThxttiesWorld]

Knoxx Glitch and Crawmerax are the reasons why the diehards kept playing BL1. trust me I was a huge GBX forum user lol

[@St4rkiller04]

I think what makes pre-sequels grind to max level so hard is the lack of DLC content. With borderlands 2, doing the story plus all the DLC’s got you pretty far by being around lvl 65. On pre-sequel you have claptastic and… that’s it. Still love pre-sequel though. Great video as always! 😁 (Also 11:13 , mayhem mode apparently applies those element changes to normal mode so there is actually no purpose on playing TVHM 😭😭😭)

[@DwWarWolf]

There is exactly enough to get max level from quests in UVHM alone, no need to start at 65. I finally got some of the characters to max in 2and I started with a level 50 Maya and ended up being around 77 by the end, after every dlc, headhunter and 4/5 rounds of the various combat arenas. That's with me skipping mission reward quests so 50-80 purely with quests is totally possible. Doing the same thing in Pre-Sequel will get you around 61

[@Ki11ersix]

Great video. A couple of notes about TVHM in BL3: it’s there for people that want to replay the story on a harder difficulty. TVHM and Normal are identical when Mayhem is enabled. No changes to elemental matching when Mayhem enabled. 95% of players absolutely can NOT just jump to high Mayhem, so progression is still there. Personally for me it’s hard to go back to the forced three story playthroughs. While BL2’s pacing made it a little more bearable it’s still the same story with no cutscene skip THREE times and that’s rough. What I never want to see return is UVHM. I think BL3 handles TVHM perfectly: there if you want it, skip able if you don’t.

[@Cashew1405]

I agree that UVHM shouldn't return, especially with how long the games are now but I don't agree with everything here. 95% of players can absolutely skip to Max mayhem with little issue. Bl3 gives you do many ways to get meta/otherwise good weapons extremely easily. After you turn it to 11 you can hop into arms race with no penalty and get any of the crazy good items there, you can get a crit with just money from moxxi and you still have diamond keys and the Gun-Gun for free legendaries that scale to the current mayhem level. Nevertheless, I appreciate you watching the vid and leaving some criticism.

[@beanman9936]

@@Cashew1405 I think the skip to max mayhem is much easier with DLC but many players don't have those (especially the 1s that got it free from epic) most likely progressed like normal

[@ilegndb2608]

Agreed, doing a bl2 playthrough right now and going through three playthroughs is killer, if they are going to go back to three playthroughs I think they should have skips on the maps, like the eridian resonator can punch certain walls on the map that open up shortcuts, maybe typhon deleons whip that you can use to go to shortcuts, or even some eridian tech that can hack terminals around the computer for some sort of shortcut. This would make it so the base game everyone plays normal but for 2nd playthrough you unlock these eridian techs that you can use to skip 2nd or 3rd playthroughs, imagine that with cutscene and dialogue skipping and you got borderlands fans turning into speedrunners.

[@Cashew1405]

Nope, I played bl3 without DLC for quite a long time when I got it free on Epic and getting to endgame is as simple as getting a crit then farming the gear you want for your build, it is harder at first but it's not long until you get one piece of gear that tips the scales for you.

[@mtldrgnthomas8174]

@@Cashew1405im gonna disagree with the point on players being able to do max mayhem mode right away. Ive played and beaten BL3 many times with many builds and i can say its not very feasible to go from: just beating the main game- now make it mayhem 10 and play it again. Now its not impossible but it would not be an enjoyable experience as youd be bashing your head into the wall just to get past one area. So id think the “95% of players not being able to” ( unless someone get facetious about it being exactly 95% and not 93%) does hold up in the original post. With that being said this video was very good and enjoyable to see how each game stacks up with all the modes. And if you do have a great build for doing exactly what we are discussing id love to try it out and see how high up it can get me.

[@drunkenskunkproductionsdsp8094]

I hope they bring back TVHM scaling all the way back to max level after the final boss like it did in Bl1. Doing a story mode three times becomes a chore and a side difficulty like Mayhem/Chaos would render it obsolete.

[@jezzuh9120]

When I was first playing BL2 I wasn't involved a lot in the online community around it and mostly just played the game without looking for resources on how to play it. UVHM was NOT fun. Without an optimized build and knowing how necessary slag was, enemies might as well have had infinite health. I completely bounced off of it.

[@SpaceWitch144]

UVHM is the worst in bl2.

[@ErosXCaos]

BL2’s slag mechanic defies logic. The game advertises itself as “a Bajillion guns”, which is a philosophy of being wide open. But slag pigeon-holes there player. Now before every kill, they have homework first. You gotta slag it. Then you can play. It’s so frustrating. The whole thing needs to be ish-canned. The idea that I have an intermediary step just so my guns work makes zero sense to me. BL2 deserves a lot of the praises it gets, but it also introduced the homework of gaming.

[@bakerfresh]

You had to have the moxxi slag pistol, an unkempt Harold specifically rolled, then usually a super duper rare launcher and pretty soon Bagillion=4. It was frustrating as a casual, who played a lot of BL1...and 2 and 3. And Seraph crystals dropping changed to only be the newest mode. I was finally able to cheese amd beat Pyro Pete, and thry changed the playthrough. He dropped no crystals. Grinded for many months on my limited time, go to Pete...beat him...Nope. Needed the New New Playthrough.

[@StolenTheif]

I absolutely agree, the biggest reason I stopped playing high difficulties was slag, I just wanted to shoot my cool guns

[@bakerfresh]

@@StolenTheif i remember cheering Crawmerax in BL1, and having more fun attacking the Knoxx Atlus soldiers with Revolvers. Trying to see if the White Jacob's masher was better than the x4 pestilent caustic or the unlimited ammo caustic Tediore with fast reload. Do I like the Torgue or Malian Blast Sniper, or the electric high zoom fast shooting S&S shotgun. They destroyed ARs in BL2. But made repeaters King. Then destroyed Torgue rifles in BL3, when thry were the only ones I really liked in BL2. Granted, you needed a lot for that purple to be worth it. Nerfing and never fixing Torgue was crazy. Then nerfing Tediore homing?!? I liked the idea, but grenades in BL3 were sometimes frustrating. They hardly did what they said. Bouncing was annoying. You have this, we'll make it up...Bouncing, Raining Caustic Spewing Clouds. And you think, "This is going to be Epiiiiiiic!!!" Thrn it bounces six times past your target and does the other stuff for a second. Like a wet firecracker.

[@theobell2002]

"Oh no, I have to put in a little bit effort to kill my enemies." This is why BL3 is the easy casual fest we have today. There's no real challenge in that game. I like slag because it changes how you have to approach the game. You can argue it's a boring mechanic sure but it creates a fun gameplay loop of switching your weapons provided your skill tree doesn't already cover slag.

[@TheDarkEnigma]

Its not a fun mechanical change up though. Its a mandatory extra step that pigeonholes you into using it. At least with armor and corrosive, you'll likely carry a weapons thats corrosive because its a viable weapon, not just for applying status effects. Slag is nigh on mandatory on higher scaling and just framing it as 'i has to put effort in ,boo hoo' is a bad faith argument

[@dreyafps]

Shorter story and different rewards than just the same stuff but better. Loving the new style of vids btw!

[@wearsjorge55]

UVHM and the OP levels killed my interest in borderlands 2. I know im in the minority but i loved experimenting and having fun, TVHM for me had a good combo of challenge and fun. UVHM and the OP levels only let you use like 4 weapons, every character has to use a specific build and this is just so you can play the game normally. Im not a casual player of borderlands im definitely in the hardcore catagory but the end game of BL2 was so poorly balanced

[@Cashew1405]

Yeah, UVHM is a lot more clossed off then the other 2 playthroughs. Tbh tho, recently I've found that theirs a lot more viable in UVHM and OP levels then your lead to believe. If you like expirementing, one of my favourite things to do in bl2 is to pick a random gun and see if I can make a build work with it on OP10. If I can make a serephum work at OP10, anything possible.

[@SpaceWitch144]

I agree on that, everything before UVHM in bl2 is fun. All after it's just suffering.

[@theobell2002]

All of these opinions are literally opinions only experessed by casual players. So yes, you are a casual which there is nothing wrong with that but don't deny it. UVHM is the best part about BL2. This myth that only 4 weapons and a handful of builds are viable is just objectively false and only a sentiment shared by casuals who lack the knowledge to theorycraft good builds.

[@SpaceWitch144]

@@theobell2002 so you like slag and bullet sponges? Alright.

[@wearsjorge55]

@theobell2002 "theorycraft" ahh yes I love exploits and glitches that carry me through OP10 because the devs couldn't be bothered to balance it. As if hardcore players aren't allowed to also experience burn out with a faulty system, we should just suck it up so we don't look weak in front of other BL2 fans

[@smithmccx_media]

The Pre-Sequel suffers the hardest with TVHM due to scaling issues and lack of content, which is unfortunate as I think it's on par with Vault Hunter selections and build opportunities. If the game got a little bit more love, I think they could have had something going for it.

[@Cashew1405]

TPS with a full DLC cycle would've fixed the issue. Even just 1 more campaign DLC would've made TVHM so much more doable.

[@smithmccx_media]

Agreed, one DLC just wasn’t enough unfortunately. BL2 did it best overall and BL3 smoothed over a lot of my issues (primarily UVHM requiring slag for most everything). Hoping BL4 is the perfect combination of the two with good endgame content to keep us coming back.

[@Greycatuk]

I love the PreSequel. But agree with you here; the best bit of TVHM was Tina's added narration.

[@Treeq0YT]

Brother the ratchet and clank music my goooooshhhh. Thanks for the nostalgia, subbed for that alone

[@frankiecedeno3724]

I pretty much feel the exact same way. If TVHM exists it needs to be worth it, new enemies, renamed enemies, increased loot drops, etc. make it special. That being said. Mayhem Mode perfected the single playthrough because now you never need to grind for max level. Turn on Mayhem Mode and play the DLCs, you will hit Max level. Obviously that doesn’t work until DLCs exist, but it’s really nice. Besides, replays are obnoxious, nothing kills experiencing a new BL2 overhaul and hitting TVHM. And sure, I’m not a psycho I played the games once while paying attention and have listened to KZbin the entire time since, even then it still sucks the wind out of my sails, EVEN while running BL2Fix. The solution is obvious, a perfect story with 0 pacing problems followed up by DLC of equal quality and full features TVHM so that early in the game’s lifecycle TVHM gets you to max level and later in the game’s lifecycle DLCs get you to the max level and of course Mayhem exists to ensure level scaling.

[@Cashew1405]

Even adding things like a slight change in narration gives the player SO MUCH more reason to actually want to play the story again.

[@connortisch481]

awesome video man,good work

[@mrtx01]

Good video 👍 Sorry to speak the truth here but level 72 OP8 was peak borderlands and we'll probably never get an experience like that again

[@Cashew1405]

No need to be sorry, I agree lol

[@deidara_itsme9183]

@mrtx01 man i love your videos! It's so easy following your videos and you're the reason i stuck with krieg instead of changing to an easier character

[@mrtx01]

@@deidara_itsme9183 Hey thanks a lot! Glad to hear you stuck it out with my #1 boy 💪❤

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

OP8 is amazing, OP10 i have no idea what they were thinking

[@indiana47]

The 2 additional OP levels are dumb and not fun. I don't like all characters being a glass cannon.

[@gringomoderfoquer8287]

I never thought about The Pre-Sequels xp problem. Always felt it, but didn't bring it to consciousness. Good point

[@chrisnelson414]

2nd playthru and TVHM in BL1 and BL2 respectively are a blast. Nothing like going up against mobs the first time in TVHM, kicking ass, then getting a legendary for your effort. Blowing away MingeMong in 15 seconds with a Fire Bee, the turret, and a rocket launcher just to have the leveled up Kerblaster appear in the loot pile makes the replay worth it. But who decided to armor maniacs? 😮

[@DDoig1]

You were on thin ice when I saw you playing the enhanced edition of Borderlands but you have made a good video.

[@Cashew1405]

I usually play on the original for things like hybrids, old characters and avoiding the data leak but the enhanced version does look better. So for viewing pleasure I recorded the enhanced version.

[@HadouGun]

I always get tired in borderlands games grinding out several playthroughs just to unlock the final levels.

[@ZyphunYT]

If they are going to add TVHM or UVHM in the next game then hopefully being able to skip the cutscenes is an option. Great video cash 🙌🏼

[@Cashew1405]

There will def be a cutscene skip but what's way more important is a dialogue skip so your not stuck standing around forever

[@dracotoy]

I honest to god think BL1 did it best. The campaign is not too long, and all the sidequests are rewarding enough that you can either do them all to overlevel, or you can do just enough to stay on level. The only downside is that for whatever reason knoxx is the only dlc that DOESNT level scale in 2.5, and if you leave it for last like i did, it sours the experience a lot. Also mayhem mode is great for a game with the worst story but i would never want to skip tvhm in the others. I think all the modes live in die by the campaign pacing however

[@Cashew1405]

That last thing you said really rings true

[@Caligulove]

Even in Borderlands 2, you were kinda punished for being in TVHM after level 50. TBH, if they could bring it back, and fix that, I'm 100% down.

[@jameskelso2435]

Mayhem is one of my biggest problems with borderlands now

[@mustbenice3829]

Nothing will ever compare to playing bl2 at release and as dlc came out. TVHM on release was perfect. Then with each level cap increase the game felt great. Even when the op lvls came out, they added enough to the game that made grinding out the game both with friends and farming by yourself was such a great experience. Pearls at release was so cool too because nobody knew what they were and farming loot midgets for the first pearls was such a cool experience. Playing the game fresh now is still great but with everything immediately out it can feel like a lot to get back into. Which I guess isn’t the end of the world.

[@jansonshrock2859]

I still think (as far as original release of games go) BL1 had the best version of the new game+ with the tvhm equivalent you got the traditional replayability of borderlands but once you beat the main questline all the enemies in the game get leveled to your character for up to max level! It made it so much more fun to go back and kill my favorite bosses being the same level as them, or what i liked to do on my second and third characters was to save the side missions for until i get the main quest done to have some added challenge. Not to mention that going back to kill bosses after turning in the mission would mean the bosses get a drop chance for the unique associated with the mission. in bl2 i remember the enemies leveling up to you but having a cap at 50, and uvhm was great in its own way just the slag mechanics made it entirely different

[@Shatter149]

my problem on tvhm on bl2 was the raid bosses. theyre basically "invincible"

[@Cashew1405]

Well, that is the point of them lol. They're all scaled to 4-player difficulty even in single-player, so to beat them you really have to expirement and figure out what's best for your build. Raid bossing isn't for everyone but it does give you a lot more to do once in the endgame.

[@Shatter149]

@@Cashew1405 well, i can 1 shot all of them if i do the exploits. but the thing is, thes bosses are now made for multiplayer which is a bad decision if u ask me.

[@SpaceWitch144]

Same for me. Never killed a single one. No friends to play with😢

[@Rosterized]

@@Shatter149 yeah as a solo only borderlands player some of the bosses are painful especially if you are not playing the "broken" characters of given game

[@totalphantasm]

UVHM’s need for slag essentially puts every character in two categories: Salvador and needs Salvador. You WILL grab the grog nozzle and then never beat the DLC for need of the grog nozzle. You WILL grab skills that increase weapon swap speeds. UVHM past like, level 3 is utterly unplayable without craploads of slag, and it seems like the game is balanced around you having a Salvador available to always keep it applied.

[@Cashew1405]

This is a pretty common sentiment but i honestly disagree. Not every character needs the grog nozzle, it's just the best healing weapon in the game so it's very easy to go grab and lean your build on it. There are many guns that heal you that are very much useable in OP levels and a lot of characters have their own means of secondary slag or healing. Krieg has thrill of the kill, Axton has grit, the slag turret and a variety of shield skills ect.. I recently made an OP10 Axton build around the Serephum, one of the worst uniques in the game, and I still made it work on OP10. That being said though, like you said, the reliance on slag is quite annoying and I understand where your coming from with this. Nevertheless, I really apricate the comment!

[@loveyuiz]

It was fun for me playing UVHM in BO2 with OP level 8 for a while but then i realize save editor exist and not only i can just spawn in legendary and Teals in my inventory but edit their parts so they don't have a mish mash parts from different manufacturers

[@ninjakatch3111]

I remember play borderlands two around the time they came out with the tiny Tina DLC involving the knights of the dragons. I played for another five years because the game is just so good. Buuut the OP lvl, definitely kept me up for days trying to perfect the perfect combination of weapon damage.. I started playing borderlands 3 not too long ago, dear God, Almighty, the amount of legendary‘s is bonkers. Sometimes you’re playing with a legendary you just got another one pops up. 😂 I’m enjoying it. A lot brings back. Great memories.

[@TheCas72]

I feel that what TVHM will become in Borderlands 4 will be dependent on the plans for the endgame. For BL1, TVHM was the endgame, and the level cap increases only made playing in TVHM more neccesary for the full experience. BL2 only had normal mode and TVHM to begin with, and UVHM was a great inclusion, but that's where the endgame is (OP levels). TVHM was a stepping stone from normal to endgame. This is mirrored in TPS, with TVHM getting you from lvl 30 to 50 before the endgame can begin. I feel that TVHM was included in BL3 to appease those who would cry foul if it was outright removed, but the endgame (mayhem mode) is accessible in normal mode, which removes a big need for TVHM at all. Wonderlands wanted chaos levels to be the new endgame, and so they didn't even bother including TVHM since they figured that chaos levels were so extensive (100 is way too many) that people wouldn't need or want a second playthrough. I think that if BL4 was to have TVHM, the only way they would justify it is if the endgame was only inside of TVHM, but it seems likely that they're going to make the story a similar length to BL3, and I don't see them forcing players to replay the story just to access the endgame content.

[@keynanmartinez]

I love Lootsplotion in Borderlands 3 on mayham 10.

[@TB-smiles]

I preferred not having TVHM actually even tho mayhem or chaos levels are a bit clunky themselves. Still, at least you don’t gotta play the story twice (which is no bad thing at all, if they let us skip sum at least)

[@bird9188]

Originally TVHM and UVHM were kind of meant to mimic the ARPG style ng+, like diablos difficulties, but they kind of disappeared because those really only existed to pad the same content without adding much new. 3 is also significantly longer, even if we ignore the story. The game just has way more to do than 2, so having to redo that 3 times would be insane. Mayhem, despite its issues, was also way better than OP levels

[@Inferrnno]

6:16 was that ratchet and clank music

[@Cashew1405]

Sure was! It was Metropolis/Kerwin from the first game.

[@robin061993]

Good vid cash

[@Cashew1405]

Thaaaank youuuu

[@theblankking1966]

Man, and I’m just over here like “ok I beat the campaign as Vet! I’ll just drop the game for a few months then start a new one as Siren, maybe with some friends!”

[@mikemidwood9661]

Love the Ratchet and Clank music

[@YoungStoney-bf7fx]

i think tvhm is nice to replay the story if interesting enough without having to restart all over again to find new stuff

[@Little_Milk120]

I think it’s good that multiple playthroughs aren’t needed. It’s dumb and boring. Borderlands 1 and 2 had some of the coolest legendary items, and it was locked behind playing through the main story 3 times? That’s stupid. Thank god I use a save editor to just jump to the last run for each character. And before people say that playability is lost since you’re “skipping content” but I end up playing the game more. I play through the first time on each borderland on true vault hunter mode and then start ultimate vault Hunter. Tbh the standard should be the 3rd play-through. I love when enemies scale to your level and skip a level or two to make it challenging still. I do feel like legendary weapons lost their charm a bit in 3 since eventually everything is a legendary/orange weapon ,but annointments and different weapon parts really help with keeping drops interesting. I truly believe all other borderlands games had they done the system like this it would have benefitted. No way in hell did I have time back in middle school and high school to grind for a level 50+ Legendary every other day. Besides that’s boring and it really limits your class playthrough. TLDR: Make True Vault Hunter or Ultimate Vault hunter the first playthrough. Mayhem levels are ok but I don’t like the modifiers. Anything that makes all enemies and loot scale to your level is great and should be the norm.

[@Cashew1405]

Valid

[@Hoonsy2you]

I think the biggest problem of TPS leveling was that, opposed to BL2, sidequest for an area unlocked AFTER you beat this area. In BL2 sidequest were something you did on the fly. Playing through Opportunity took some time, but you turned in 5 quests after, got an easy level and where done with the area. Sidequesting in TPS was like pulling the emergency break on the main story, you went back into an area that you cleared allready, running through areas that were way to long and boring without the kontext of the main story, suffered through endless variations of "ill insult you with way to many words and thats hillarious" or "ill do something stupid that gets me killed and thats hillarious" and then get no xp at the end because... you allready cleared the area before, you are way overleved for the side content. TPS sidequest were bad :>

[@heavymetalsazabi4333]

As someone who has always been an alt-o-holic I have always wanted a way to start a new character in UVHM and skip play through 1&2 even if it required beating the game once on your account.

[@harry2597]

I think mayhem mode is on the right lines but still a long way off perfect. Maybe some kind of system where as you progress and beat main story missions in TVHM you get some kind of additional reward that can increase your mayhem level, all the way to maxed out after the last story mission. (Effectively being UVHM or equivalent) Then you could go into any DLC/takedown content at the maximum level. This way the story will feel like it's getting harder as you continue and not just be the same level of difficulty until you complete the entire game again and hit the next NG+ Also the mayhem modifiers were not great but in the TPS DLC the mutator arena was awesome. I think with some tweaks that could be an optional addition to Mayhem mode. Maybe it dosen't change drop rates but just involves fun changes, similar to what you migt see in a 2000s games cheat menu with additional balancing changes. (enemies having bigger heads but take less crit dmg, expolsions 2x AoE but less dmg, increased movement speed, increased damage but less fire rate etc)

[@tiagoalves2056]

With Salvador ultimate vault Hunter mode is equilibred.I have both Maya and Gaige lvl 80 plus OP 10.True vault Hunter you don't need to slag the enemies on UVHM is way harder

[@Perezeta-zu7tf]

One and two did it best those two games do make you work for it while 3 felt like it wasn't needed since you constantly get tons of legendaries

[@Jaydyn_H]

Yes! Yes! Our guy is BACK! Been waiting for ages for another cashew video! Man, you are the NUMBER 1 guy to have listed as a reference on a resume dude! Hope you've been doing well during all the time off man :)

[@Dominic_Santiago1]

Will say about wonderlands is yes. I really wish they did add a reset to the campaign despite being able to get quest items in vending machine their is still some that don't appear as often such as the heckwader (only saw it 3 times in all the time I played wonderlands in the vending machines) this would be a great way to collect Unique items without having to rely on rng

[@betakode3162]

Hi there. Im probably not as hardcore as a lot of other players, but Im not a casual player. I have come to realize, the major public is now more casual than some years ago. This players wont (or cant) invest a lot of time in a game. Publishers know that and games sales are everything, so we get "lighter" games in a way. Less grindy sometimes, less deep other times. Its also important to make the difference between a "long game", a "grindy game", a "replayable game" and a tedious game. I bet there are examples of good and bad games in all categories. Borderlands is not usually tedious, grindy or too long, but the way it is replayable may not be for everyone, so it ends up being a "niche" game. Will we get a good TVHM? Maybe, devs have more knowledge know, maybe it shows. But also that may not be attractive enough to the public to invest in making it and we end up with another type of game

[@indiana47]

Oh my god, I hate how the Pre-Sequel's UVHM does not put you anywhere near max level. I did all side quests for UVHM as well and was still 10 levels short. I reset and did a second playthrough and was 6 levels short after doing the main campaign.

[@WaaluigiBoard]

The legendary drop rate is increased in more difficult playthroughs in 2? I had never heard this

[@Cashew1405]

Yeah, not by that large or a margin though, you're not going to be getting many if any legendary world drops. It's more focused on less whites for blues sort of thing. This does not go for dedicated though, they all have a fixed drop rate no matter the playthrough.

[@thatonedude1107]

My problem with BL2 is that it feels like Normal and TVHM are just playthroughs to get you to UVHM and the OP levels. I can’t stand the idea of playing BL2 on normal mode, then TVHM mode, and then I finally can play UVHM mode. It’s similar to BL3’s mayhem mode, where there are Mayhems 1-10, but the hardest version of the game is 10, so what’s the point of playing mayhems 1-9? How many players play BL3 on Mayhem 1-9? Zero. Same thing with OP levels, no point in creating a 1-10 range if 10 is the hardest version you can create. Except BL2 actually has weapons that only drop in certain OP levels, but that’s about it. BL3 also has the same thing where certain weapons only drop at certain Mayhem levels but it’s even worse because it’s just a slide of a button. No point in getting the Dictator when you can just slide the bar a couple and you get access to the Monarch. For the future, they should stop adding more “difficulty” modes. I wouldn’t mind if there was only Normal mode and then TVHM mode. If they do want a bit more variety for the difficulty, then add UVHM mode but have it be that. BL2 technically has 13 difficulty settings, and BL3 has 11 difficulty settings. How many players actually play BL2 on OP level 3 and how many players play BL3 on mayhem level 4? Close to zero. How many players play BL2 on OP levels 1-9, and how many players play BL3 on Mayhem levels 1-9? Again, close to zero. Just close the difficulty gap is all I’m saying

[@hayato1886]

What? There are 0 op exclusive items. There are items that drop only when you're 61+, but none that require you to be in any op level at all

[@thatonedude1107]

@@hayato1886 my bad, could’ve sworn some pearls were only at certain op levels

[@hayato1886]

@@thatonedude1107 Some mods do have that, the recent snowbound does, I think Exodus does as well

[@Cashew1405]

The gen 2 pearls (Carnage, Bekkah, Godfinger, and Wonderlust) were all originally OP level only but after Fight for Sancuary DLC level 80 gave you the same amount of drop rates that op8 used to give you.

[@davidwhidden9337]

Pre-Sequel TVHM was a non issue. UVHM is grinder hell.

[@steveperry2321]

Borderlands 2 had horrid dedicated drops at times compounded with chances the weapon you just killed an enemy/ boss for hours or more for ONE to drop in the wrong element and/or wrong level/op level... and how there was no way to 0 out experience in first/tvhm so those who tend to do side quests and stuff as they go ending up well past 50 with level 50 gear vs regenerating enemies at 55+..

[@Cashew1405]

Endgame grinding for perfect parts/elements can be very grindy in bl2, but in all honesty, you do not need perfect gear to play normal and TVHM. In those playthroughs, most legendaries can be a huge help to the playthrough, so I stand by what I said in the video.

[@steveperry2321]

@Cashew1405 I'm not even talking godrolls. Gearing both my 2 characters I ended up burned out from just trying to gear them up moving gradually up op levels.. a huge majority of what I did find was usually wrong element AND lower op level than I was playing on.. looking at say a corrosive op6 deliverance I spent hours a day for over a week save quitting trying.. usually getting the creature to spawn 80% of the time.. and then maybe 1 in 20+ kills it'd drop a deliverance. A vast majority of the time it was op5. The ONE in the first week that dropped op6 was non elemental. Even taking element out of the equation going for ANY bunker drop I killed 50+ to end up with ONE smg and ONE head. Terra another example several of its drops I wanted mostly salvador and gaige cosmetics and the shotgun so I would camp for weeks straight 8+ hours a day to see 1 head(krieg) no skins 1 shotgun from one of the few occasions I went at it purely for cosmetics chance so it was 50 in otherwords fully useless on uvhm. Pretty much anything I went for barring quest rewards was fairly consistent to take hours-days to see even at level drops for me.. usually weeks to months for at level and in the element I wanted.. Multiply monthes of 8+ hours a day for 3 weapon slots when the weapons wouldn't carry more than MAYBE 3 op levels before needing to replace.. the purple magic missile was the ONLY part of my loadouts that wasn't from shops/quest rewards I could get consistently without having to burn days right off.. I predominantly ended up running shotguns on salvador usually 2 Heartbreakers and 2 omens one corrosive one shock.. I've never been one to chase God rolls in any loot game.. nor have I started off chasing the meta.. my salvador ended up with semimeta skill layout but tweaked towards ammo regen/survivability. I was never a fan of chasing the current trends on it.. bee shield did me no good on salvador nor gaige I play far too aggressively I would test whatever I got in bl2 and 9 times out of 10 the guns I leaned towards were below par but fun for me.. instead of a dpuh on gaige I ran around with random legendaries trying them out settling on an infinity pistol for giggles when ran out of ammo for deliverance hellfire and whatever assault rifle I had handy.. When I went into borderlands 3 with 20+ different drops to collect recommended to try and got 16 in a night (majority from dedicated drops) at that point drops are a ways too high but every last one was at whatever mayhem I was on when I farmed.. not having to add multiple layers to the odds against getting something feasible to use was nice.. A healthy balance between the two without having to worry about it dropping below level more than 75% of the time and enough variety of bosses(don't get me started on the hp sponge bars and excessive immune phase changes in 3) would be a vast improvement over both 2 and 3

[@DwWarWolf]

​@@steveperry2321your issues with op levels is exactly why I like how chaos gear works. OP levels are so overturned while you don't need god rolls you still need *on level gear* as the bare minimum as each level increases is a 13% over the last. That means getting a weapon to drop but it being 2 levels is a 27% decrease in your damage. Just absolute nonsense that people ignore BL2 underleved gear dropping. No you don't need an all TORGUE part DPUH but you still need it on your level. This makes the drop rates in BL2 that much worse. Thank God BL3 fixed this issue though I still don't like Mayhem because there is no progression. Chaos gear still has progression but because the damage increase chaos gear isn't as high you only realistically need to grind 1 maybe or 2 times on the way to level 100. At level 50 and again at 75 and that's only if you want to. A good enough build will carry you more and you can get the highest tier gear way before getting max level as well. It's so much better than just the gear before being additional levels after max level. I did the math and chaos gear is like going to 5 OP level 5 or Mayhem 7.

[@xSetkux]

BL1 TVHM is peak.

[@germanwojtek3576]

I love all my legendary 50 gear . Always fun to play the DLC’s at level 50 with stupid OP gear

[@gimok2k5]

Personally, I never liked this mode. Not only did it fail for me as an actual NewGamePlus mode by forcing a harder difficulty on me and not allowing me to just replay the normal game, said harder difficulty also failed to be fun by mandating more specific playstyles as NOT doing so would end up making me play so inefficent, it would be a slog to play. Hence why I avoided it like the plague. It was literally a fun killer for me, so I never bothered.

[@pointeaxis]

TVHM in BL2 is the BL2 experience, for me. I honestly think normal is too easy for the most part, plus, the fact that there's new/remixed enemies in TVHM just means you're getting 100% of the content.

[@SpaceWitch144]

You probably saying about UVHM, because in TVHM experience is nearly the same.

[@flowstatepump]

Tvhm mayhem 11 has better guns then the normal mode on borderlands 3 I can’t use the easy mode weapons 🗿

[@Cashew1405]

No, there's no difference between the 2 playthroughs once you enter mayhem mode. Legendarys are the same.

[@br0br0123]

The thing I love most about TVHM , especially in BL2, is you get to try out many different builds and weapons you probably would never use again. Maybe it’s my fault but in BL3 I don’t feel the need to do any of that. I use what the game gives me and stick to one build throughout the entire game and I maybe only change it up once or twice.

[@sidoboi]

I'm one of the few people.I know of that played tvhm on every single bl3 character anyone else do that ?

[@gabrielespindola4461]

BL3 was a chore to replay even when coparing to the presequel, from the start of the second playthroug i already had legendary gear in all the slots and a lot of extras on the backpack, no extra rarities to farm, too long main story with a lot of characters i dont care about, and migrane inducing visual polution. So i only leveled one character to max level. On bl2 i did 4 and on TPS and bl1 i did 3

[@bakerfresh]

Many people were 1 and done. Whatever character was there in the vanilla version, they chose. I would think if someone watched a trailer of BL2 and saw the four main ones with their power, they'd want to be them over Gauge and Kreig if playing during the Handsome Era. , many left that game because the lack of support. And Aureilia had to have a secondary player to really take advantage of her one tree. Turning solo people off. And it came later. The lasting community players liked extra characters, and its insulting to say they didn't or don't matter in the unfair equation. Did Wonderlands only have people play one class? Of course not, but 1 timers gonna 1 time.

[@bcav712]

Presequel enjoyers rise up

[@ComfiCharlie]

For me borderlands 2 was like HOLY SHIT I GET TO PLAY MORE but borderlands 3 had me like OH GOD I HAVE TO PLAY MORE

[@Cashew1405]

TRUUUUE

[@almightytwinkie2171]

A solution to having a BL3 style Mayhem that Gearbox wants, but an endgame that players want: Mayhem stays, but it's more turned into a "Midgame". Still extremely hard, but not the true endgame. It has its own Raidboss accessible to the player out of the box TVHM now has pure exclusive loot and a return of an exclusive rarity like pearlescence. On top of that, a boss and area exclusive to TVHM is made. Inaccessible in Mayhem 11 until TVHM is unlocked. All enemies are more difficult, higher level, and heavily element locked, perhaps new variants too. The Raidboss is exclusive, and so is its preliminary boss. Brand new dungeon essentially UVHM cranks up TVHM to an extreme, possibly making elemental matching not a necessity, but a requirement. New mechanics are introduced in the Raidboss, and "perfect" drops become more common than TVHM And just to add to it, TVHM and UVHM isn't even told to the players in trailers or in the game, it's only shown after beating the "Midgame" raidboss on Mayhem 11 And please let the T/UVHM exclusive Raidboss be a return of Crawmerax the Invincible. Something stupidly on brand like "MechaCrawmerax the Unstoppable"

[@Cashew1405]

I like the ideas but I don't agree with all if them. If the game is as long as bl3 then having UVHM might just be too much, endgame should start at TVHM if it's included. Having a midgame to unlock TVHM would also mean that alot more players wouldn't ever reach endgame just from not knowing about it, especially if it's hidden in trailer and press releases. I really apriciate the comment though, you a legend fr

[@almightytwinkie2171]

@Cashew1405 How about some revisions? A good tinker here and there ain't too bad If the game was, say, just a bit longer than stock BL2, would UVHM be a good inclusion? What if UVHM was a part of a level pack that told you straight out of the gate that there was a hidden raidboss? What if the basegame raidboss(or some other incident, like an NPC spreading rumors) teased at the secret raidboss? Make its suggestion native to the game's story, like some Pandoran local legend. It may help with revealing the secret What if the guaranteed base game Raid drop had flavortext that outright told you "The greatest enemy lurks in the most difficult of challenges"? Something along the lines of "Try again at the hardest difficulty, there's more to the game" What if the secret raid boss/raid dungeon was revealed pre-release with an after credits cutscene in the game's trailer? Instead of being locked behind Mayhem 11 raidboss, what if it was just hidden behind Mayhem 8? Maybe Mayhem 6 or 4? Just some fun food for thought

[@flowstatepump]

I think a way to upgrade your weapons with eridium or something to your current level would make it alot more common for a casual player to go through the end game and next game modes

[@hotboiii_ced215]

Bl3 did it best once they removed the mayhem modifiers at 11. Allow players to casually increase the difficulty as they feel without needing to run the campaign 3 plus times on a single character. Tvhm is there if you need more xp for vault cards or just want to collect the gear rewards at max level.

[@kylepackard7499]

I think the next borderlands should have a level scaling system more like borderlands 2, and an end game system like digi-peak but with only 5 or so levels. Obvioualy, the only difference is the end game needs to be balanced a bit better.

[@Gabbagool86]

So basically Hell difficulty from the earlier Diablo games.

[@phecto]

I think TVHM being easily skipped in BL3 was a really good thing because that main story was terrible to have to go through once, having to do it once per character made me really not want to play more than 1 character. Having to do it twice for each character would have been unbearable. Doing the BL2 story 3 times for each of the 6 characters was preferable to doing the BL3 story once so just having the mayhem system invalidate TVHM was very much the right choice. I have my doubts the story in BL4 will be good so probably safer for them to not include TVHM

[@Cashew1405]

I agree with this, the passing in bl3s story killed the replay value

[@winstonsmith84]

I still did TVHM in BL3 but in Mayhem mode.

[@shawnboggs6209]

they can bring TVHM n UVHM if the campaign doesnt drag.

[@mars-012]

whats the name of the song that plays in the backround at 13:20 ?

[@Cashew1405]

That's "Stiterbrush Symphony" from Donkey Kong Country 2 but the one in the video is specifically the remix made for Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

[@mars-012]

@Cashew1405 tysm! This songs been escaping me for a while

[@K-popQueenSoo-Ah]

I finished BLTPS on Normal and TVHM. Now normally I will welcome NG+ on games but Borderlands games I was so sick of playing it by the time of I reached UVHM I actually quit playing. I also tried playing BL2 several times but just couldn’t bring myself to finish even my 1st play through because TPS killed my interest playing any further BL games.

[@Cashew1405]

That's honestly pretty nuts to hear since I'm a huge TPS fan but still fair. I think the thing with that game is though is that knolledge of the game makes it so much better. A great example of this is that on my first few playthroughs of TPS i never even knew Acrobat Oz Kits (Oz kits that increase your movement speed on slam) existed. Once i did the game had a way better flow. Also goes for thing like knowing all the dedicated drops and how to properly farm the grinder. Bl2 is a lot better put together then TPS though, so i say take some time away from the series, then come back to 2. A bad mindset can make you dislike games a lot more then you actually do.

[@rocknarify]

My biggest issue with 3 was no server browser every game i EVER got in that was campaign was afk or immediately got kicked cause I was 60 joining a 13 or vise versa

[@Cashew1405]

The matchmaking in bl3 was awful! It always had been

[@rocknarify]

@Cashew1405 hopped on to some borderlands 3 because this got me thinking about it again and same issue the two times I searched the other players quit when I joined and now not finding any matches

[@gadrielvanorion9872]

i think the modes suck cuz if you where making a good version of this mode you would 1. get the player maxed out in the first playthrough 2. save a decent chunk about 2/3rds of the side content if not more for playthrough 2 3. add straight up new enemies to the mix, so for example threshers start spawning in playthrough 2 why? well, experiencing the main story and A FEW chosen sidequests allows you to experience the game fairly pure and get to know how to play, how characters are and so on now in playthrough 2 i dont rly want to bother with the story too much, BUT i may do sidequests more now and get to the big bosses with better preparation in bl2 thats me farming special equipment to deal with a rush of main quests in quick sucession without much issue also helps with lvling up a bit playthrough 3 is where you are running out of steam and the will to rly finish it again you dont want to do any sidequests cuz you save most of them for max lvl and this problem gets worse cuz now you slog through and offering more content for a second playthrough, adding more enemies and finally adding 2 new rarities such as pearls and seraphs for extremely rare / raid gear respectivly would make it so much more so i will strongly disagree thatg UVHM is in any way the proper way it sucks keep it at 2 and make the second worth my by maxing out in the first what i would say they COULD do with UVHM is adding more main story missions and perhaps a sequel to the story we playd or filling it out a bit more so each playthrough adds a bit more to the base games core experience

[@Cashew1405]

I don't think UVHM will ever return tbh, a 3rd playthrough is just too much for some people. I think the best way to move forward is to stick with 2 and have TVHM recove all of the bonuses UVHM has like unique items and whatnot.

[@gadrielvanorion9872]

@@Cashew1405 i 100% think a 3rd playthrough can work imagine if bl3 had done dlc 5 a third playthrough instead of dlc 5-6 adding more base game areas adding new enemies like vermivorous with a higher chance of spawning and dropping FULLY DEVELOPED new cutscenes and main story quests expanding beyond the ending to fix the story issues and give us more they could then also have made older bosses a bit cooler, base and dlcs if this had been a 30$ dlc and they atually rly put in some work i would totally play that more base game sidequests, areas story more loot more enemies tell me you would not and to make it even better remove mayhem lvls for this dlc so either you are mayhem 11 in tvhm / normal OR you are lvl 80 instead

[@Cashew1405]

@@gadrielvanorion9872 I like the idea but the casual audience isn't going to play the game again for a more fleshed out version of a story they most likely didn't enjoy that much. There is definitely merit in the idea tho, kind of like the next step from having Tina and Brick take over as narrator in TPS. With how bl3 was, like you mentioned, mayhem would have to be removed for it to work. That was never going to happen with how long it took to fully implement.

[@DwWarWolf]

The best way I think it can works is with whatever the endgame levels are. I personally haven't gotten max level in BL3 and so I haven't touched mayhem but I'm planning on getting to max level and going straight to 11 and restarting the story. I'll probably grab a few easy to get legendaries but this way I earn max mayhem gear with missions on the way. Think of Cloud Kill. Max level mission reward is what gets me motivated for a third playthrough and being able to get them while going though the third playthrough, instead of saving them for the end, is motivation enough for me. I like the idea of the Earl's shop but idk, I like having to do missions to get certain gear.

[@yescax]

Loot and gameplay balance matter a lot for this and BL1 then BL3 did it best. Focus on fun not farm unlike BL2.

[@TakaChan569]

It was bad in bl2, it just made the game tedious as fuck.

[@PeterKaitlyn]

My problem with TVHM was finding a mode that I liked... I sometimes had to reset and reset over and over to get something I like to play on... My favorite is lootsplosion and just finding that with something else I like is tedious... it would have been better if they split up the group, in half... I like BL2 with more characters and a three level playthrough... I still like playing BL2... much better story, and leveling...

[@Cashew1405]

Oh yeah, mayhem modifiers sucked all the fun put of the game. What a mess

[@SLISKI_JOHNNY]

Honestly BL3 system is the best because it gives you a choice. Want to replay the story on higher difficulty? Go ahead. Want to make use of level scaling and reach level cap without repeating story with or fighting difficult enemies? We got you covered. And if you think that TVHM is obsolete now that we have Mayhem mode, then it just goes to show that the only reason it existed in the first place was because the devs had no better idea for progression. Also fuck UVHM

[@Cashew1405]

I think it can exist in a place where you do get something for beating it, but not making it mandatory. It's a fine line but I feel that'd it be possible. Maybe bl3 will be the closest thing we get to it

[@mrgamechanger97]

Yeah I want tvhm back and I want it to have a purpose. But I'm right there with you that the most important thing is a reset option and better pacing for ng+ runs. BL3 was very restrictive with waiting on dialog and forcing the player to clear all enemies to move on far more than previous games. But having not even a playthrough reset in Wonderlands killed it. There is a reason almost noone hard-core plays BL1. All the time for the dozen or so people that do spend hundreds or even thousands of hours grinding upgraded gear there's 1 looming question from any observer? "What's the point? What are you even gonna use this stuff for?" The answer is nothing. You just have to stay motivated to farm for the sake of having the item. Being able to reset your playthrough and tackle the content at max level is the point of grinding once you reach endgame, without that 99% of players won't bother to keep going more than a few hrs after hitting the cap.

[@Cashew1405]

Actually there are a lot of hard core bl1 people but I see your point

[@mrgamechanger97]

@@Cashew1405 idk compared to bl2 and 3 the playerbase is super small. There are times when the bl1 twitch category doesn't even show up because nobody is streaming it. And even when there are people it is mostly casual first or nostalgia playthroughs, not endgame grinders.

[@DwWarWolf]

This is why I like the idea of chaos chambers. Some see 100 levels and hate the idea of how long the grind is going to be but I like having a goal to look towards. Getting chaos gear is a gradual process so grinding at level 40 isn't as wasted and even so max level chaos gear is only 80% stronger compared to OP 10's 240% and Mayhem 10's 136% when compared to max level gear. I know people can't stand chaos levels but it's the only endgame leveling I've liked. I hate OP levels ruined the balance and I hate how Mayhem was just a switch. Chaos chambers are only bad because its the only form of endgame. If they were in BL3 and also chaos increased from a takdwon as well people wouldn't have bitched about it. I hope Gearbox can keep the strengths without the failing of Wonderlands because it did so many things right as someone who usually gets all characters max level and stops playing.

[@mrgamechanger97]

@@DwWarWolf having a goal to look forward to is great but imo endgame is once you've reached level cap. Early game is the first campaign run, maybe tvhm too in bl2, midgame is the grind to level cap. So the midgame of bl2 or wonderlands is far longer. But after you max out chaos chambers, not having a way to reset the story is a huge turn off. It's been a staple since bl2 and many of us wish such a thing existed in 1 as well. As for the chaos chamber design, it baffles me that they went, hey you know the most hated dlc of all time? Underdome, where it had way too many boring repetitive rounds? What if we made something that merges that and digipeak, our 2nd most controversial dlc? Where you basically do an underdome to unlock your endgame scaling. I'd have been worried to be fired on the spot pitching such an idea.

[@DwWarWolf]

@@mrgamechanger97 @mrgamechanger97 Digistuck is controversial? What are you talking about. As a fan BL3 all I hear is how Mayhem sucks because there is no Digistuck necessary to unlock more levels, it's just a switch. I think 100 levels is too much and I also think there should be other ways to increase whatever the endgame levels are but I think people were way too harsh on chaos chambers. I never played The division 2 long enough but I know it's dlc added a 100 floor gauntlet and it was my brother's favorite part of the dlc. Also underdome sucked because there was no reward outside of a couple of skill points. It and chaos changes don't suck because it was randomly generated enemies in randomly generated arenas, are you just ignorant to rogue-likes? I want chaos chambers to come back in some way as there is only so much fun to be had with a single takedown and the amount you can add to chambers and the time commitment is also way the fuck more feasible than the 5+ takedowns people are asking of BL4.

[@Sandro_de_Vega]

I liked this Tina spin off for what it was. But GOD... how i hated lack of NG+ i literally played with growing hype for TVHM... and there was none.

[@Crysis441]

I hear R&C, i sub. easy

[@Cashew1405]

Legend

[@dorianthegray]

The scaling for TVHM in The Pre-Sequel basically made me drop the game entirely. Between needing to grind and not actually having anywhere to get on level gear, it just became a chore. I did play multiple characters for normal mode though.

[@cannandreas]

Reduce world drop rates by 70% and double dedicated drops. BAM, TVHM is something everyone would strive for in BL3. It doesn't help that BL3 story is a massive slog too though.

[@Alex-xi4bg]

Honestly the only real slight area is Eden 6 after the anvil

[@cannandreas]

@@Alex-xi4bg Pretty accurate for me too, the Ambermire is so dull and pointless for me.

[@jarzz3601]

I'm not sure I ever did tvhm on pre sequal I got the instant shield recharge glitch beat the raid boss then stopped playing

[@JRHainsworth]

BL3 mayhem mode should have been unlocked after TVHM not normal mode. And the level scaling should have been slowed down do you're not already almost at level cap at the end of normal mode's campain, so there would actually be incentive to play through the second mode.

[@locallyric9013]

I never even played the new game plus when it came to borderlands games Im just too casual

[@Cashew1405]

That's still a very valid way to play

[@plumbervslife4812]

In my opinion Borderlands 3 is still the best one and to prove it that's the only game that I completed four characters fully level

[@albertoencinar95]

I just want to replay wonderlands campaign damnit but with ally farmed gear not a new character

[@lordunidas5558]

Dude OG BL was by far the best game so far. Like BL3 combat is the best utility wise, feeling unique and very approachable in unique ways and with crazy guns. However, OG BL combat just felt flawless other than some enemy AI acting foolish. The Knox DLC was the only disappointment, but not a complete disappointment. The area was phenomenal and enticing, but man having no fast travel and LONG roads, I was driving 70 percent of the time. That, and if you hit the elevator in the atlas vault and quit to re-battle Knox, the door breaks and you just never get to go into the vault for that playthrough so don't ever do that. Go through the elevator, or the glitch spot to get there with no timer. All in all, least favorite DLC but it was the most rewarding. ONLY cause the driving sucked. But really, no other BL game had such enticing DLC (including BL2, which I think was overrated but that's just me) Pre sequel I just wanted it to be over. That could be cause I chose Wilhelm, but enemies being so annoying to actually shoot,having oxygen to worry about(good for enginuity, bad for the unnecessary extra bar to watch) and the main bad thing in my opinion was that half the areas in game, fire weapons were rendered useless. Fire being the best element in my opinion, not having it all the time just sucked. Game wasn't bad, but I still want it to be done. STILL haven't beaten it once, but I'm suffering through it

[@tristancaplette2556]

As long as they not bring back op level with how dumb it was in the end

[@tristancaplette2556]

plus ,having the need to use slag 24/7 is boring in bl2 endgame ngl

[@Cashew1405]

Yeah, agreed. 10 or even 8 is way too many levels for a endgane system like that. Especially if it's the same thing over and over with no real reward like in Bl2.

[@picawood]

i love UVHM but not a big fan of OP levels and the need to play the game 3 times, i think the modes it should be a unlockable options you can set like at the start in any character

[@DeathScavenger420]

Having to complete the game twice before unlocking the "true" difficulty is tedious and boring. In Diablo 2 there is quest rewards to increase my skill points (den of Evil - Act 1, Cleanse the Sewers - Act 2, Kill Izual - Act 4) / stats (golden Ghidban - Act 3) / resistances (rescue Anya - Act 5) when being forced to play through the game 3 times.

[@jonathonjones2611]

I hated the drop rates in BL2. Maybe it's because I'm not a streamer so didn't play the game as my job, but I the drop rates were so bad it took away a lot of the joy of the first game. It got to the point where I didn't feel like farming for weapons because the chances of getting a good one just weren't worth my time, I wouldn't even bother looking in vending machines either because I was conditioned to seeing nothing but white gear. It was grindy to the point of being tedious. In BL3 I loved getting to try out all sorts of legendary gear, and was much more committed to farming for them as a result. Plus, there are the takedowns and other end game content to try them out in. Whereas, in BL2 it felt like there were a bunch of mythical drops that only existed in KZbin videos. Slag was also a terrible mechanic that ruined UVHM IMO.

[@Cashew1405]

I think I'm just used to how long farming can take. I wouldn't be opposed to having dedicated's stay at 15% as a compromise. Your valid for this as not everyone has the time to farm. Plus, after living through Bl3's launch on console, it never felt like farming was worth it cause of the load times, so i feel your pain 100%

[@SlowerIsFaster139]

The only game I played more than bls2 was Warframe. And that was just because I ran out of content in bls2. Warframe was my bls2 replacement lol

[@Don-Keedik]

This video has made me want to start BL2 again with a fresh character 😅

[@chapterblaq]

...not gonna lie. I own every borderlands game (including Wonderlands and both Tales)... I've never beat a borderlands game (besides Tales 1) let alone seen TVHM, 14 years since i got into the series 😂 I usually dick around joining multiplayer and jumping around the story. I want to play singleplayer (to actually understand the story chronologically)... But unfortunately borderlands isn't really made for single player so it gets hard and annoying and i just move on after a while...

[@domw8268]

I dont get why people hate uvhm, its easy for me, i dont even use meta accesories, i use a banshee class mod, vh relic, and a rough rider, And i find it pretty easy. I honestly think people just need to get better

[@Cashew1405]

The problem that most people have with it is that UVHM is the 3rd playthrough of the game in a row and for people who aren't huge borderlands heads, it's pretty tiring.

[@CapuiICazzu]

Counter arguement for the counter, i dont want to play a new class i didnt pick them in first place because i didnt like them so give me ultimate hunter mode back

[@CapuiICazzu]

And everyone seems to forget there not characters there just classes and custonizing optuon u get u can just have it on first guy and second skill tree allows u to play other classes anyway

[@Cashew1405]

Yeah, it was more of a devils advocate kind of things

[@CapuiICazzu]

@@Cashew1405 i just hope they can please both parties in future