booktok's new obsession: romantasy - a deep dive into its history, its popularity, sjm

[@poodlemuffin]

It’s so weird that people think Sarah J Maas invented the whole dang genre. Fantasy romance has been around forever; we just call most of it mythology and folklore now.

[@shelleys.corner]

I was flabbergasted when I saw Bloomsbury (her publisher) alluding to the creation of romantasy. I think they may have claimed the term but others may have misconstrued it. Still, I wouldn't even really call her the Queen of it either 🤣

[@ZebraArmada]

I loved the after talk. When I listened to Kendrick’s diss I was mouth open for six minutes. That was BRUTALITY, no diss, all personal.

[@shelleys.corner]

K Dot hates that man, and I support him 😭

[@poodlemuffin]

It’s always been popular, it’s just socially acceptable for women to talk about their interests publicly now thanks to social media. It’s a lot harder for us to be shouted down and mocked when we’re able to flock en mass 😬 I’m old enough to remember Angela Carters books being shrink wrapped in bookshops as they were considered too shocking.

[@bentheoverlord]

Ah this was fantastic, really love these longer form video essay/discussion type chats. I've always wondered why people dont like Romantasy being treated as its own genre, because I think its something to be proud of. Its like a perfect combo of fantasy and romance, and becoming its own thing.

[@shelleys.corner]

I'm glad you enjoyed it! I love long discussions, so making these videos are the best 🥰

[@dragonuprising8378]

My main problem with Romantasy is that not only does it feel like its becoming the standard to either replace or be held to the same degree as actual fantasy but so many romantasy books are either medicore at best and complete trash at worst. And it's beyond disappointing now.

[@cynthiagates9627]

This!!

[@sjor3569]

Totally understand not wanted Romantasy to become the standard I do not want that either but let’s not pretend that all fantasy is the pinnacle of literature either.

[@amandacantcometothephone]

you mean like most fantasy?

[@shelleys.corner]

Honestly, I agree 😭 Hopefully there will be a shift back to straight good fantasy soon

[@Ruthi3ry]

I would definitely read that book, so I’m guna need you to write that book, Shelley.

[@shelleys.corner]

I'll get on it 👀

[@ericm8481]

the kendrick reference😭😭

[@shelleys.corner]

I've had it on replay ever since 🤣

[@cynthiagates9627]

I can’t stand the term ‘romantasy’ just call it fantasy romance. It’s not hard. It also seems like a lot of (modern) female readers never read much fantasy in general until romantic elements were introduced enough to make up some combo name for it. I’m not trying to be negative here I just can’t stand the term and needed to get it off my chest. I adore your videos :)

[@katgreer6113]

I differentiate fantasy romance and romantasy. Keep reading for my very dumb explanation. I call something a "fantasy romance" if the plot is primarily about magic, powers, spells, or the world. The romance will take a backseat, but its still there. A good example of this is 'The Cruel Prince' by Holly Black. Political intrigue and the fae world are most important. Then, the romance is basically sprinkled in. Very little. 'Romantasy' however is romance *first* and fantasy *second.* A good example of this is 'Powerless' by Lauren Roberts. The world building isn't too strong and there's not too much focus on magic systems. Romance takes the *front* seat. So "Fantasy Romance" is more fantasy, and "Romantasy" is romance. Also, it's true that modern female readers didn't read a lot of fantasy before because the genre was previously dominated by male authors. What I've heard from female fantasy readers is that those older books written by men typically protrayed female characters very terribly. I'm not surprised to be honest. There are a few male authors like Rick Riordan and Brandon Sanderson that women have complete confidence that the female characters won't just be as stepping stones for the MMC.

[@maidlenhazley]

@katgreer6113 If the plot has fantasy elements, it's a fantasy, point blank. Anything else is a subplot. In Romantasy, the romance IS the plot. Everything else is a subplot. Even if a book had romance, it doesn't mean it's the main focus, therefore it's addressed under the umbrella of fantasy. Most female fantasy authors include romance in their books, i think it's insulting that you (or anyone for that matter) would refer to it as fantasy romance when it is JUST fantasy.

[@nel1214]

Yup, this exactly! Obviously no judgement here but I've noticed that lot of romantasy readers are romance readers first and foremost. The fantasy elements are just an add on to heighten the stakes. It's also probably why so many people recommend romantasy books for newbie (usually women) readers looking to get into fantasy. I will say, as someone who used to be intimidated by large, non-YA fantasy, I can understand it a little. When I was younger, I had the impression that traditional adult fantasy books were mostly overly complex novels about men, written by men, so it took a while before I started reading them. And while I obviously now know that isn't really the case, I wouldn't be surprised if some women flock to romantasy specifically cause of that exact same reason.

[@katgreer6113]

@maidlenhazley6808 Uh... OK..😭? Sorry...? I personally call it that myself. And other authors do so, too. Stephanie Garber(Caraval, Once Upon a Broken Heart) literally called her OWN books "Romantasy" just the other day. Idk why you're upset or think it's insulting. I'd really like to hear that reasoning. OK. I just think of things like this like flavored water. It isn't just water if it's mixed with orange flavors... but it's STILL water. Like how many people view Twilight as a romance before they think of it as fantasy. The romance elements there are just as prominent as most other things in that book, hence why it's categorized as "Paranormal Romance." Dracula is a vampire book with romantic elements but is supposed to be firstly a horror. (Wasn't scary to me but whatever) Dracula and Twilight are a little different, and sometimes readers use certain terms to describe them differently to get specific about what they want. If I ask my friend for a 'Fantasy Romance', I knew damn well she isn't going to hand me Harry Potter. But it's still a fantasy. JUST a fantasy. Idk, little things like that matter to me. Calling it fantasy romance isn't rude in my opinion, because is does NOT negate the fact that it is STILL a fantasy. I'm not gonna sit here as an aspiring female author myself and say that women don't write "real" fantasy. Because I don't know what you think I'm trying to say or do. I'm just calling these books what I think they are. But if you don't like things like that..fine. I just want to know why it's insulting? Anyway, that's just me...(and other authors too) Sorry?

[@maidlenhazley]

@katgreer6113 I think you misunderstood me. A book being a romantasy isn't a bad thing, especially if the author wanted it to come off that way. Think "Bride" by Allie Hazelwood (I hope I spelled her name right). My point was that the term fantasy romance is used to UNDERMINE women writing fantasy. If the book is mainly a fantasy and has a romance side-plot that barely gets mentioned (think: the cruel prince), it IS a fantasy. If a book was fantasy and it's side plot revolved around friendship, you wouldn't say "friendship fantasy", would you? I'm not insulted in any way, btw. I mean, you do you. But, for example, if GRRM included a romance subplot in his books, no one would call them fantasy romance. They'd just be fantasy. Romantasy can exist as a genre (my problem is not with that at all). Fantasy romance can and is used to insult female authors. I know you probably mean well by it and I'm not those who gets offended easily but I've seen many female authors write pure fantasy with a side plot of romance and still end up in a romantasy section. The same way female fantasy authors sell their books in YA sections despite their books being NA. You'd never see a GRRM book in a YA section. I hope you got my point, lol. But again, you do you. I was just pointing it out cause I'm an aspiring author myself. All the love :)

[@kinglywaves1474]

My problem with romantasy is just the formula everyone who sells is doing a lot of it does feel almost like copying and pasting tbh most of it is publishing fault. But about the rap beef I’m sorry chris got called a leather jacket and cokeheaded mj, and it sent me out of orbit. But with the Kendrick, j cole, and drake beef we all know the true winner in all this is Megan and honestly I love that for her.

[@yo.johnson]

"What else was you sayin?" LMFAO YES EXACTLY, I want him to give us a VISUAL on KZbin of the entire diss track. Kendrick's Lemonade Beyonce era. LOL

[@mishasa2751]

Idk, for me the first romantasy is Ramayana, it checks all tropes tbh 😅 although it's written in BC

[@shelleys.corner]

Looool I get the vibe you're thinking of though

[@Zero_Is_Stopping_Time]

I haven’t finished the video yet, but I’m gonna say that I personally have always loved fantasy and as an aspec person I hate, hate, how romantasy trivializes non romantic bonds and acts like the only person that should matter is one of two conventionally attractive (usually white) guys

[@VariousAndSundryBee]

He said tryna strike a chord and it's probably a minor 🥴

[@shelleys.corner]

That line has been living in my mind rent free ever since he released his diss😭