The Science of Asexuality | Sci Guys Podcast

Our patrons voted for it and so we’ve done it, an episode on scientific studies surrounding asexuality!
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References & Further Reading
What is Asexuality?
1. www.stonewall....
2. www.birmingham...
3. onlinelibrary....
4. www.plannedpar...
Asexuality Research
1. journals.sagep...
2. www.tandfonlin...
3. link.springer....
4. journals.plos....
5. journals.plos....
HSDD
1. www.plannedpar...
Follow the SCI GUYS
@notcorry / @jampkin / @lukecutforth

[@Sam-fq3bt]

As an ace, I'm learning a lot about allosexuals in this podcast

[@СвеБожилова]

Saame 😂

[@j3wpacabra]

That’s the best part 😂

[@nataliatheweirdo]

this is the most relatable comment-

[@lina-1825]

sameee

[@jenniferbarrett555]

As an ace, I'm losing it.

[@Shelby-sh2fr]

I like how the comments section is mostly aces studying allos studying aces. We've come full circle.

[@soullesslittlefaery3433]

the asexual urge to help in explaining this as I am listening. you guys did great, but I feel like having an ace person around to help out would be monumentally helpful in clarifying some things. would love to see an episode with an ace person on board :) thank you for including asexuality at all, we tend to be overlooked in a lot of educational spaces

[@d33p345]

truly. i just wanted to reach through the screen and bestow some K N O W L E D G E

[@heyheyitsvey]

yes

[@kitenlovar699]

yeah like that kid trying to raise their hand like they know the answer and just cant sit down.

[@blubli3824]

Would absolutely love another episode with an ace/aro person

[@heyheyitsvey]

me too

[@mackthompson616]

1:45 correction/ polite duel challenge: um actually, aros aren’t necessarily on the ace spectrum. many aromantics are not asexual, and though our communities often work together, allosexual aros often experience a lot of hatred and discrimination because of this misconception that all aros are ace, and there’s “something wrong” if they experience sexual attraction and not romantic we often say aspec as a combination of acespec and arospec, but i’ve never heard anyone say a-spectrum, so you probably could but i would suggest saying something along the lines of “the aro and ace communities have a lot of overlap and similar goals, so they’re often considered together” followed by just saying “the ace and aro [spectrums/communities/etc]”

[@andrewhannaford2995]

Big up on this as a fellow demiromantic allosexual - made me sad to hear Corey say that aro is on the ace spectrum when they're seperate but related things.

[@Micahhroni]

thank u for pointing this out! as an aro who doesn’t define their sexual orientation (and is therefore not ace) it bothers me when the aro and ace communities are conflated. we’re sibling communities, but we are our own distinct things!

[@mackthompson616]

@@nellie__ yeah it’s a bit uncomfy for allo^2 people to be talking about aro and ace experiences :/

[@2small4theMall]

he specified that he wouldn't be talking about aros though

[@ExhaustedOwl]

Just before the 3 minute mark they clarified that they're not actually discussing aromantic people, only asexual people, and that the ace people they'd asked to come on as guests unfortunately hadn't had time in their schedules.

[@evanorlandomacdonald7511]

I love that in like every remotely queer episode Luke is just trying his best to understand everything: it just gives me so much hope.

[@liamkampff1]

I also think he tries so hard to understand and coax-out different types of explanations on purpose too so that listeners can get the most learning possible, which is super considerate!!

[@threeofeight197]

Also in mental health episodes he does this. It’s so nice to see. I’m used to ppl passing it off as “all in your head” but they really take the time to explore how these things work and how it’s hard to understand if you aren’t the person dealing w said thing. ❤❤❤

[@sarawarlestedt7242]

I’m not sure this was very helpful for “normal” people. But it’s really interesting as a ace person watching you guys not understand it 😂

[@kaiyodei]

share it with aphobic non heteros. some tell me asexuals are not welcome at Pride spaces because they are not valid due to the fact there is no harm or discrimination done to them

[@AngelBeatsOtaku666]

lol as a demisexual person, I'm still not really sure I fullly understand it either xD

[@KYLE1654-v7m]

@@AngelBeatsOtaku666 It's okay Allosexual person you will understand it someday.

[@anonymouslearner2454]

What did they get wrong overall?

[@d33p345]

i think you're looking for the word "allo", as in allosexual, a person who is not asexual. calling asexual people abnormal is a bit dehumanizing, don't ya think?

[@orinom4128]

As an ace even your misunderstandings and jokes were genuinely heart warming and funny because its very clear that none of you have ill intent and you all mean well. :)

[@dr.bandito60]

This just really brings to light how poorly our language is defining these terms around attraction and sexuality. The asexual community has done a lot of good intellectual work trying to pick it all apart, but the language we’ve crafted is still so difficult to convey without an intensive session on a terminology, like this episode is doing. I think it’s worthwhile though! Thanks for the asexuality episode.

[@brennanowen7278]

Truee

[@suna173.6jm]

biggest sign youre aspec: youre not at all confused by the distinction between romantic and sexual attraction lmao

[@coyoteinthepool]

The romantic and sexual distinction is easy to sort, what leaves me puzzled is the difference between romantic love and friendship love. They went over it in the aro episode and I was left more confused than I had been!

[@Kimshu6]

Sometimes I question if I'm "really" aspec because I do feel sexual attraction and a lot of it for my partner (not so much outside of that though). And then my girlfriend or friends talk about how hot characters or actors or musicians are and I'm like "I like this character cause they're pretty and their voice is nice and they seem like a good friend :)" rarely does it go into "they make me horny". If it does go there it's usually like, on top of already liking them as a character and liking their design. I can also acknowledge when a character design is hot, but I usually just don't care that much in the moment. If I'm horny, it might make a difference but it'd still be mid compared to anything my partner could do.

[@coyoteinthepool]

@@Kimshu6 This is me! I thought people were just being fanciful when they said characters were hot! Is that real? I am really aroused by the idea of actions I could do with my particular partner, but their physical shell is not relevant to that. They might be visually pleasing to me, but that's not related to our sex life.

[@Kimshu6]

@@coyoteinthepool My gf and friends often say stuff like "This character could do things to me and I would thank them." and I'm like "You know, good for you, but they kinda seem like an asshole so not for me, lol. I'd much rather my gf. :)"

[@Itri_Vega]

The allosexual confusion in this episode is hilarious. I'd love to see their reaction to sub labels such as aegosexuality. Also, on a more serious note, if you ever get an ace or aro on air I'd love to see/hear that too.

[@tyeaenora1422]

thank you, random internet person, for teaching me a word and concept I can relate to.

[@orieday6459]

I think I’m aegosexual

[@CapriUni]

As an asexual person, let me see if I can answer the question "How do I decide who do I want to [redacted for the sake of the algorithm] with?" I figure it will be an activity that takes a certain amount of time, with a certain amount of physical closeness. Would I enjoy spending that amount of time with that person, because I enjoy their company? I'd also point out that the nice feelings that can come from [redacted for the sake of the algorithm] can still be had with a solo activity.

[@kaiyodei]

i can't imagine sex without attraction and i hardly get attraction(for real live men, not fictional characters)

[@leacaplar6273]

From my experience, the definition of asexuality says "little to no sexual attraction" to be more inclusive to demi and grey aces but most people who tell you they are asexual experience no attraction at all. If you ask me who i am attracted to it's no one and that's what i mean when i say asexual ? How ever i can tell you who i am romantically / aestetically / sensually attracted to.

[@kaiyodei]

i say I have a lust deficiency and don't get the hubbahubbas

[@frozenyogurth]

@@kaiyodei but lust and sexual attraction are two different things

[@alli97253]

@@frozenyogurth I feel like that depends on your definition of lust

[@lilymercy]

my reply to who im atracted to on any axis is a shrug. id like kids and people to help me raise them but the rest still needs poking with a stick to see what shakes loose. i use ace for lack of experience and ease of use and to invite more questions if desired

[@delphinidin]

Yes--some of us who are fully asexual and/or sex-repulsed just say "I'm ace" because it's shorter and easier than explaining every single aspect of our sexual identity in an encounter: we just want to tell the other person, quickly and with as little embarrassment as possible, that sex with us is off the table.

[@fancyfroggie]

hi i thought i should just clarify, aromantic is NOT on the asexual spectrum, it is its own spectrum. you can be aro and not ace, or ace and not aro, or both aro and ace. people often include aromanticism in the asexual spectrum, this is wrong and harms non-ace aros.

[@mackthompson616]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@mackthompson616]

allo aros often experience a lot of invalidation and treatment that they’re not real, and i like that they clarified that you can be aro and not ace, but dislike that it was still implied that aro is part of ace

[@OdinsSage]

Too many people assume romantic and sexual attraction are the same thing, and while for most people the two things over lap, for many people these things do not overlap. Ace and aro are two completely different categories that can SOMETIMES overlap in a person.

[@MK-jf7rp]

One thing worth mentioning, some people on the ace spectrum might describe themselves with two labels like demi & pan, gray & bi etc but some prefer to just use one, simply because their attraction is so rare, they don't even know if gender of the person was even a factor. And other people use a label 'oriented aroace' - when you don't feel sexual nor romantic attraction but for example you experience such an intense aesthetic/sensual/etc attraction towards people of certain gender or all genders that you want to specify you're e.g. homo-oriented aro-ace. Just usually you don't explain that to people because even the concept of asexuality is new to them, so coming out has to be preceded by a lengthy explanation, it's just easier to go with 'ace' or 'on the ace spectrum'.

[@AmalaFrequents]

This was an interesting episode. I'm ace and I've known it for aboout ten years now. The older I've gotten the much more I understand it, and the more I notice the little things. For example when watching a tv show I often have to pick up from context clues if someone is meant to be attractive or not, because everyone looks just sort of human to me unless they have something particularly striking that I find very aesthetically pleasing. I have to actively construct how sexual attraction might effect a person or situation and keep finding it increasingly bizarre everytime I try to comprehend it. There is a lot of detailed complexity to the range of attraction models we ace people can talk about- sexual attraction, romantic attraction, aesthetic attraction, sensual attraction, platonic attraction -and also how we describe our relationship dynamics (queer-platonic for example). I think it can be a lot to unpack for people on the outside, but it's fascinating because these things are often present in all people, ace or allo, the requirement for self examination has just never been that pressing for allos. As for the DSM thing, I'm fairly sure the inclusion of 'this does not apply if the individual identifies as asexual' is a mire recent update. It used to be that not experiencing sexual attraction/desire was automatically deemed a disorder or unnatural state of being in need of correction so if you went to your doctor and asexuality was mentioned they would often medicalise it and want to assess your hormones or mental health etc.. There is very much a medical issue if you as an individual whose typical baseline is sexual desire/attraction suddenly experience a significant drop or absence, and it can be caused by many physical issues. But being asexual is different in it's your typical baseline. And the issue of tension is many asexuals have had their sexuality medicalised against their will, or through lack of awareness been given treatments or had it treated as a symptom when it was not (whether theu knew they were ace or not) and this contributed to the stigma that not experiencing sexual attraction is a big problem and you can't be a healthy human being without it- so before the explicit inclusion of asexuality in the DSM as an exception sexual desire disorders were one of the most immediate ways society negatively interacted with ace people. So a lot of attention gets paid to the wording, practice, and inclusion of sexual desire disorders in official manuals. There is also the added argument that a change in sexual desire is not in itself a disorder, if you accept humans are naturally capable of 0-100 levels of sexual desire. It could be a symptom of another issue- a hormonal one or mental health, but the lack of deisre itself isn't a disorder, the issue is the sudden change in desire. And this you could also argue having it exist as its own self contained disorder is self fulfilling in causing distress because its existing out of an assumption that present sexual desire is the natural healthy finction of the body, and does not encourage the laid back approach of- sexual desire not existing doesn't make me a broken human it is a side effect of something I am going through. The fact it exists as an independant disorder it could be suggested stems from medicalising asexuality. For example- low appetite can be a side effect or aspect of many other issues, from physical to mental health, but if you go to a doctor you are unlikely to be diagnosed with 'low appetite disorder'. So the idea is if someone is experiencing little to no sexual desire and it's not a part of some other physical or mental health issue, is that not just asexuality? And does the inclusion of a disorder of little to no sexual desire not encourage medical professionals to pathologise absent sexual desire by itself, rather than address if this is a natural state for someone or an atypical disruption to their natural state. And thus the myth is perpetuated that if you present as an otherwise healthy asexual there is a problem still to be fixed, and that in itself can encourage the internal distress. I discovered I was ace 10 years ago and like a vast number of ppl I interacted with at the time my first response was upset, feeling broken, wishing it could change- because most of us had only experienced lack of sexual attraction etc as something pathologised. It's a complex issue, but one of intense interest to the ace community because of the very immediate real life effects it can have (and also having to convince a mental health professional it isn't an issue when you seek treatment for an actual mental health issue. It's just a big awareness issue all over, and poor awareness in a medical context is often the most scary.)

[@doublehuman94]

I find it so strange as a aro ace person how people can just go from physical attraction to romantic and then sexual attraction were as I see clear lines between the types of attraction.

[@charliev4156]

Yeah. I guess for someone who experiences them all, they kind of snowball into/cause each other

[@saggguy7]

@@charliev4156 yeah it’s hard for allosexuals to understand the difference between those because for us they very often all occur together. Most don’t realize that they also experience these things independent of each other sometimes lol

[@HermitKing731]

im also an aroace person and i really really hate being this way. im thinking about studying to become a scientest and to find a way to change my aroace orientation some day because i dont want to die this way.

[@charliev4156]

@@HermitKing731 Aroace people can live just as fulfilling lives as anyone else, even so far as living and having a child with a friend or queer platonic partner. It’s something you can’t change and you’re amazing just the way you are

[@HermitKing731]

@@charliev4156 that doesnt make me feel any better really. i still wish they would find a way to change me some day. i dont want to live and die like this. i didnt choose to be this way. i hate it. everyone else around me gets to experiance normal feelings that are foreign to me. its not faire. im a freak. i hate myself. i hate this shit. i wish i had never been born.

[@puffpride8344]

I would really love another episode with an asexual person. So many things could have been clarified :) "Asexual" refers to two things (within sexual orientation). "Asexual" is both an orientation in itself, and a spectrum. People who are "asexual" as in the orientation are using it in the same way "heterosexual" and "bisexual" etc would be used. It means they aren't sexually attracted to any gender. It gives you all the information you need (except romantic orientation - but "bisexual" doesn't give romantic orientation either. We just assume bi because most people don't have split attraction). You were thinking of "asexual" only in terms of the spectrum. In that sense it does become more of a modifier; you can be bisexual and on the asexual spectrum, heterosexual and on the asexual spectrum (by being demi or grey-ace etc).

[@rrebecca3149]

I often describe myself as a queer ace. All I know is that I am not attracted to men and that I have romantic attraction to some people. On a different note, I had to go to a gynecologist because of Hormones after chemo and radiation and it was my first visit there. So then the doc was like, when you need the pill we can change it to that and so I told her that I'm asexual with little sexual desire. And so she was like: But that can still change. I just shrugged because I just wanted the appointment to be over. And then she asked if I had received psychotherapy for my Asexuality because I had seen a psychiatrist to get anti-depressants while on the stem cell unit. Girl, what? It's not a disorder. I was in a shitty place because of chemo, no visitors (only at my window), not being able to leave the room and just the overall situation of being in hospital more than being at home and possibly missing my brother's 18th birthday. In the end I didn't but that's not the point. So I just said that I talked to a psycho-oncologist to cope with the situation (True).

[@bdhesse]

I'm ace (demisexual). I also consider myself pansexual, which I think helps answer the question of who I'm attracted to when I do feel attraction. I think I really confuse a lot of cishet people because not only am I in a long term relationship (which is apparently supposed to be impossible for ace and pan people?), but I'm also trans masc and I've given birth twice.

[@evermore331]

It was so cool to see a podcast done on asexuality! The depth and breadth of research is super evident and much appreciated. Listening to it, I found it interesting how you so exactly pinpointed that asexuality started being talked about on a large scale in the 2000s. In 2001, AVEN (the asexuality visibility and education network) was created and is the main reason we use the word "asexuality" today. Before AVEN, aces were typically included under the bisexuality umbrella since many of us experience equal attraction to all genders (that being none or very little). The Sounds Fake but Okay podcast episode 166 talks about that shared bi and ace history. I also appreciated the distinction between different forms of attraction! That breakdown can be called the split attraction model (SAM) and also includes sensual, platonic, and aesthetic attraction. It also makes more clear the difference between the asexual spectrum and the aromantic spectrum, as many aros don't consider themselves to be on the asexual spectrum. The most recently released ace community survey (from 2019) shows that roughly 39% of respondents identified as being on the aromantic as well. I also appreciate how you addressed the idea of medicalization. This can be an issue for aces accessing medical care as being honest about one's identity can cause medical providers to look for a "solution" to something that isn't a problem. In the same way that it was explained that having a low sex drive can be distressing for allosexuals to the point where they look for medical intervention, having a high sex drive can be distressing to some aces (even if it's naturally high). That also leads to one of the theories for why most of the ace community is women, followed by nonbinary people and then men as the smallest segment. Sex drive and sexual attraction are often confused, which can lead to people with higher levels of testosterone (which is often though not always associated with a higher sex drive) not realizing they're ace. Another theory is that sexual activity is considered a key component of manhood in a way that it isn't with womanhood. Thank you again for covering this topic and for the depth of research, kindness, and sensitivity that it was approached with!

[@snail5870]

I'm asexual and a-romantic and I have been called a sociopath for not feeling those things.

[@charliev4156]

That’s horrible, I’m sorry you had to deal with dick heads who don’t understand being ace and aro. You are loved and your identity is real -Love, an ace and possibly aro spectrum person

[@snail5870]

@@charliev4156 Thank you I really needed to hear that :)

[@Johnny_T779]

Well, I thought this too, but I was willing to learn more about these things before throwing such hasty judgment. Thanks to podcasts like these I hope more allos will learn as well and stop being insensitive ☺️

[@alecjira]

Those accusations are unjustified and you are valid.

[@tamaradubose9432]

We should make a club.

[@jg9425]

I have aesthetic attraction, and wouldn't consider having sex with a guy unless I had an emotional connection to them. I use the label demi, bc it feels the most useful for me. Sometimes I don't use it, ultimately it comes down to boundaries and communication, since I am hetero.

[@riley22105]

I'm ace and I really appreciate how thorough this ep was!

[@fane_abyssal9175]

I am acearo and would love for another episode, especially one that looks at the scale of sex-repulsed through sex-positive, and how that can intersect as well. a bit more on how it interacts with the aro spectrum too would be awesome. This might also go nicely with a kink episode if you were to do one as there are a fair few ace people in / open to the kink scene. Love the work

[@Itri_Vega]

I second the kink suggestion, especially the psychology behind non sexual BDSM (for instance, in relation to reclaiming control after trauma, or general basics of power exchange).

[@lilymercy]

as an ace i like the bdsm comunity because there are more guidlines and rules around the acts and that you can negotiate which bits are getting touched. its just as often about intimacy as about getting off at least for me.

[@Regulardryad]

I'm ace, I'm back, and the "you do no one" joke is legitimately hilarious

[@jaybirdvlogs7279]

If luke wasnt here, I would be soooooo confused because he always knows exactly what questions I wanna ask lol

[@beyedoc]

"I'm trying to understand..." Don't worry, it took me 33 years to really understand that I'm asexual, and the journey to realize asexuality being long and involving thoughts of maybe being gay or bi because of lack of/equal lack of attraction to genders seems to be a fairly common thread for a lot of us. I do experience limited romantic attraction and aesthetic attraction as well as the ability to form deep friendships and QPRs because in my mind sex is off the table and my wanting to hug someone may be due to emotional attachment or sensual attraction. However, if that person is not asexual they may misread my social cues and I may misread theirs because of being happy and fulfilled in a relationship without sex. Just giving an example of my human experience.

[@tyghe_bright]

I'm gay (not bi) and trans, and aro but not ace. Aromantic gets even less discussion and recognition than asexuality.

[@charliev4156]

Yeah it tends to get lumped in with being ace and just ignored

[@user-os2oz5gz1d]

i am aroace but i have a friend who is aro and they say that there’s so little discussion about it, and the stereotype is just being a slut. it’s ridiculous

[@minnightxx__8708]

I mean aromantic and asexual get confused with each a lot and I don't like that

[@kaiyodei]

because a lot of people don't think it's real. they don't think split attraction exists

[@kaiyodei]

because people don't think romantic attraction exists. and they will say things like "homosexuality is not about sex"(then what does the sex in that word mean?)

[@tamaradubose9432]

I think this was probably unintentional, but I love the soft, asexual lighting in the background

[@jessica-mh3os]

as an asexual person, thanks for the episode :]

[@personmcperson9145]

I liked the episode, and I'm happy that you covered asexuality in such a thorough capacity. However, I have a few points of constructive criticism that I feel would have made the episode better. You guys should definitely do another follow-up asexual episode with an ace person to give more context to some of the talking points that were brought up. I think that maybe some more foundational knowledge should have been set up at the start of the episode, such as the common use of the split-attraction model, and also the fact that there are more types of attraction than just sexual and romantic (aesthetic, sensual, alterous, etc). A clearer distinction between romantic and sexual attraction would also have been beneficial. This would allow for a better overall understanding once you start going more in-depth into these topics. It seemed like you did quite a lot of research, but it was clear to me that there was little input by asexual people in the acquisition of this research. This was most evident in the way that you approached the topic structure-wise; the inclusion of the aforementioned foundational knowledge would be something deemed as highly important (at least from my POV), and something that I, as an ace, would seek to clarify very early on. I've found that these key points are often the first things that questioning/new aces comes across as a result of their personal experiences of being asexual and the questions that naturally arise from that, but I fear that without that personal experience, the understanding of aces that allos achieve would be even more confused and compromised than that of the aces. Thus, to cover and distinguish the different modes of attraction first and foremost would be beneficial for people who are both starting their knowledge of aces from scratch, and also to those who are also still learning. Hope this all helps, and thanks for providing more asexual awareness :)

[@kerrybutcher283]

Just to make clear that sexual attraction and sexual desire are two different things. So having a low or high sex drive (how horny someone is) does not change who you are attracted to or not in the case of asexuality. When you are talking about the sexual disorders I think you are conflating sexuallity and sexual desire. If you are asexual and giving them a hormones to make them horny it doesn't suddenly make you attracted to opposite/same gender. Another criteria of a sexual disorders is that you needed to have experienced sexual desire before not having sexual desire. Also you have to understand that we live in a sexual compulsory world. Where sexual attraction is assumed and our culture is steeped in sexual imagery and language. It can take years for an asexual person to realise that how they are experiencing the world is different from the majority of the world.

[@victai7014]

y'all are the only allos that i trust to do a video about the SCIENCE of asexuality. god knows it's been medicalized too fucking much, past and present

[@YoRouable]

For some ace people...being ace CAN cause them distress! But it's usually because of social pressure and bullying--not because they used to have sexual attraction and then lost it due to a medical issue. That's why pathologizing or medicalizing asexuality is a problem. I have had doctors quickly follow that up my saying "I'm ace" with "Does that cause you distress?" It seems as if they don't believe me, and want to see if they can quickly give me cures for a problem I don't have, but they *perceive* that I have.

[@elinfelin]

I love how confused you are about what the heck sexual attraction is and what the absence of it means, welcome to the last 20 years of my life lol.

[@SusanOnTVShows]

Sexual desire is also referred to as libido. I have a libido but, I have no attraction to people.

[@NicoleSole]

"I'm demisexual...but, to whom?" I really like that perspective. It's like, we as asexuals have to rep so hard for representation and non-erasure that we don't always go into the specifics of, okay, yes I am asexual, but just because I don't experience sexual attraction, that doesn't mean I'm not attracted to anyone in any way ever. (Some on the spectrum can feel like this and that is absolutely valid, and some experience other attractions to people) I think we tend to leave that specification off because asexuality in itself is so confusing to clarify, even for us going through that journey, that we don't want to confuse anyone, or we feel like we need to prove that we are ace enough to be here, so we omit that part. But I think adding that part can be such a testament to our diversity of experience, and therefore helps our "cause" to specify (if it applies to us) that yes, I am asexual AND I am (other types of) attracted to _____________ (insert gender attraction of choice here) I. personally, am hetero-ace(and possibly aro)

[@NicoleSole]

I am really talking to myself here, embarrassing. But in society, it is always assumed that when you label your sexuality, all of the other "attractions" are lumped into it as well. So if a female comes out to her parents as homosexual they don't say "Okay, but are you romantically still attracted to men?" No. They assume that homosexual means you are sexually, romantically, aesthetically, etc. attracted to females. The difference here is that Asexuality is the only sexuality that truly takes those nuanced attractions into SO much consideration, with good reason, because for a lot of us on the ace spectrum, they are truly separate. But if we are to genuinely embrace the gray-ace and demi ace experience into asexuality, I think it is essential to make those distinctions, since people who are ace that identify as these labels, do still feel sexual attraction, albeit rare, or under certain circumstances. Especially, if the definition of asexuality remains as LITTLE to no sexual attraction.

[@Johnny_T779]

Well, as an allosexual person, I feel like understanding asexuality is as hard as understanding people who hate chocolate... And both of them are harmless folks who just exist, being nice isn't so hard 😊

[@maddyl6988]

As a bi person for whom sexual and romantic attraction are very separate, the first 15-20 minutes of this episode were a trip! I kept being like 'omg am I ace?' *lists all purely romantic or libido-based encounters in head, then remembers all the instances of sexual attraction* 'nah, I'm allosexual, I think, I'm pretty sure, yeah I'm allosexual, I might be due a few deep chats with my friends'

[@cbot2423]

I’m so glad there are more conversations about asexuality happening now. I always thought it was no sexual desire whatsoever. After finding out the spectrum I realised I’m very very ace and it honestly feels really good to not feel so out of place. Thanks!

[@firefly927]

I'm a pan-oriented aroace. It's so refreshing to see allosexuals spreading ace awareness. Thanks!

[@roolime]

Describing attraction is difficult but my favorite analogy is the pie analogy. If you asked most people they would probably tell you they like pie. Some people would generally like most pie, and some will really like one kind of pie, but there are those who have no interest in pie. Those who don't have interest in pie are the asexuals. They might dislike desserts and never want pie under any circumstances. Others might not like pie but be willing to eat it to be polite or favor someone that offered them pie. Some people love dessert and want it all the time, but pie isn't a thing they prefer or have interest in if other desserts are available. Demisexuals might be like a person that doesn't really like pie, but really loves one very specific kind after spending time getting to know all the details of how to make that pie and what is unique about that pie, until they have a deep connection and interest in that one pie. Grey asexuals vary the most but kind of most easily described by someone that normally doesn't like pie, but every now and then when the circumstances are right they really crave pie for a time. Hope that was helpful to someone.

[@Niki1A_]

As an aegosexual, I can gladly say that I don't have to challenge you to a duel. Very good episode!

[@CelestialTown_]

This episode was great! as an ace person, i really enjoyed it and it was interesting learning more about studies and research. One thing i really liked was this helped me put into words what i have been struggling to convey for years. A large portion of my friends are lgbt+ but really do not understand asexuality at all and i struggle to explain it. Although, 2 years ago, my experiences fit the "textbook definition", that has definitely changed. the conversation about the differences between attraction and desire were just the words ive been looking for. would be very cool to do another ep with an ace person!

[@OdinsSage]

Think of arousal vs sexual attraction like this: Being asexual and experiencing arousal is like being hungry but nothing in the fridge looks tasty nor is anything sparking the hunger the hunger is just happening independently of the food in the fridge. A demisexual on the other hand may have hunger sparked by a familiar meal that they think very fondly of and have had frequently before, but not by any random food.

[@chey7691]

I usually just say "hotness blind" and no one is my "type" by looks. I imagine demisexual is being immune to all of it the same except a specific person(s) and usually after seeing past the looks. Sexual drive is certainly not attraction, as horny needs no instigator or reason.

[@dollyrutherford2223]

Can’t wait for this one ! I’m pretty sure I’m asexual 🖤🤍💜

[@certifiednerd542]

I’m also ace!

[@Lacccaria]

Hello There fellow aces :D 🖤🤍💜

[@charliev4156]

Aces unite! We need our army for when invade Denmark /j

[@dollyrutherford2223]

Oh my gosh I didn’t think Id get any replies ! Hello !💜

[@beyedoc]

I'll also add that as an asexual person, a lot of us read social cues differently and often don't even think about sex and don't recognize/understand when their partners are needing or wanting sex. A lot of us are also hyper aware of the different types of attraction and how we experience them compared to allos who may think sexual attraction = romantic attraction. That's why we identify to each other as a biromamtic asexual, aro ace, etc.

[@maydaylane9154]

hello! questioning asexual here. this was a very interesting video to me and i would love it if you wanted to do another video on the science of asexuality. especially if you spent more time on the difference between sexual attraction and sexual desire (something i find perplexing) and talked about aesthetic attraction as well

[@ColorMeCrystal27]

A metaphor I find useful in the attraction vs desire question: If sexual desire is like the general feeling of being hungry, sexual attraction is like being drawn to eat a specific food. Being ace but still experiencing desire is like being hungry but not for anything in particular. You can still enjoy eating to satisfy your hunger, and you might still like some foods better than others even if none of them get you really salivating.

[@pigeondance687]

yes please do another episode with an asexual person sometime! i feel like i still don't fully understand it, but i know that people who experience the thing themselves are often better at creating analogies so others can understand.

[@joe-q2n]

I've had the dickens of a time figuring out what romantic and the other attractions are supposed to be, with regards to myself as potentially aro and/or ace. Example at what point does wanting to spend a lot of time with someone and being emotionally close differ between platonic and romantic. And similar with aesthetic and sexual attraction.

[@SliverOfSilverStars]

Would love another episode on asexuality! Learning about the asexuality umbrella and aroace terms really forces people to sit down and parse through all these different dimensions of attraction, relationships, feelings etc. Like you don't necessarily have to overthink it and dwell on it but overall I think it is a useful exercise for people to challenge their own perceptions of attraction. And I think a lot of people can learn more about society and themselves if they had access to these terms. Even just at the surface level like looking at the split attraction model and separating romantic, sexual, sensual, aesthetic, emotional attraction and how those may differ or interact and overlap for you as an individual. What I love about Asexuality is that it validates that I don't have to want to have sex and that I don't actually have to prioritize it, despite society and so many other things saying that I should want and prioritize it. Like nah, I just want to vibe. And if it happens it happens, but it's totally fine for me to not seek it out or find it super compelling. As a side note, recently I learned the term Alterous attraction which is "a form of emotional attraction. It describes a feeling that is not necessarily platonic, but also is not romantic in nature." which feels really relatable to me. Like I want to be more than friends with a person but not really in a romantic or sexual way, I think.

[@jaimehall5836]

I good phrase I found that describes the difference between attraction and desire is, you don’t have to hungry to still enjoy pizza

[@tomatopotatu8137]

As an ace, I am so happy with how they constantly saying how they were saying about about each ace's expeince is individual

[@aknee3042]

I find a really good way to get your head around it is imagining sexual desire like hunger; maybe you're not hungry and you're not seeking out food but if someone offered you a slice of cake you might still enjoy it. Similarly, you could be really full and the thought of food makes you feel a bit sick or you'll happily eat cake but only if it's a certain brand you know you enjoy.

[@wintergray1221]

I had a conversation with my mother (who is a boomer and a Christian and therefore massively uninformed about anything other than heterosexual) because she was curious since she is apparently SOOOO hetero that she can't fathom someone wanting their own sex or otherwise. I explained it using ice cream. Let's say a hetero person likes chocolate ice cream and a homosexual likes strawberry. Bisexuals like both. Pansexuals will happily pick any flavor in the shop. Gray aces are lactose intolerant but might still like the taste of ice cream. And sex repulsed aces are plants who photosynthesize.

[@impoisonivy2130]

My asexual bat plushie in my room approves of this episode

[@anna_in_aotearoa3166]

Definitely an interesting episode! I think the line between a 'pathological' or medicalised view of asexuality and an identity-based view can get even more fuzzy for those of us who identify as both disabled AND somewhere on the ace spectrum...? (For example, I couldn't personally say for sure how much of my current 'ace-ness' was due to underlying orientation, and how much has been due to decades-worth of the effects of medication, surgery etc?) As the guys noted, "is the individual comfortable with their situation?" seems to be a common medical/psychological yardstick that's used for measuring whether things are 'okay' in this space (similar to the approach to helping trans people). But it's also hard to tell if that's an accurate measuring tool, given how much our expectations & views of ourselves are influenced by society's sex-related norms, prejudices etc? I guess the key takeaway might have to be that (at least for now), all we can do is to be accepting, try not to generalise too much (treat each ace person as an individual) and keep supporting additional research...? 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@dunqwe]

Asexuality has a lot of nuances that weren't fully explored and I'd love to see another one with someone who is aspec

[@aurobot5937]

You guys, I found your channel bc of this video... ya'll explained it all so neatly. As an ace person, it's super frustrating to mostly only find videos that just cover the very, very basic info on asexuality, or straight up pathologize it. You explored so many important points here that aren't as talked about. Earned a subscriber 👏💕

[@emmi3785]

For me asexuality and aromanticity are very logical things. It is logical that as sexual attraction is in spectrum (different people experience it different amounts), of course there needs to be persons experiensing none of it and those experiencing a huge amount of it. And same goes with romantiticity.

[@Zack-eq3ou]

It’d be really cool for you do another episode on this with an ace person, so they can help fix mistakes, and misunderstandings. I’d recommend David J Bradley, (not David Jay, although he’d be cool too, obviously-) he’s done a lot of research on this topic, and is asexual and greyromantic

[@OdinsSage]

Man, I'm 15 minutes in and can tell this episode really needed to have an asexual person to clarify some of this nonsense.

[@laberynthe]

I have thoroughly enjoyed watching you all stumble through this subject matter. It was definitely "wrong" and "helpful" at the same time, so congratulations on that front. Thank you for bringing up the absurd conversations about less than average sexual behaviors being a result of disabilities and disorders. Those conversations are harmful and demoralizing, and we should talk about the things that harm ourselves as well as the things that harm others. I volunteer myself as tribute if you do decide to produce an episode two including humans on the ace spectrum.

[@jessekos1859]

27:24 allow me (as a demisexual) to explain how this is for me. Since I'm basically never attracted to anyone except for rare cases, I think that's more important to comminicate than who I could be attracted to in those cases. I might add that I'm bi- or panromantic. It's just that for me the demisexual part is so much more of an important part of my identity, how I see the world, how I exist in the world relating to others.

[@FudgeYeahAmerica]

As a 466,003,020,634 (Aka a Poly Kinky Ace, who is more of a relationship anarchist) you guys did a lovely job!

[@starfishgurl1984]

Asexual aromantic here who just found this video after watching your video with Jammidodger and I’m so happy you made this! Even though I’m not sexually or romantically attracted to anyone only aesthetically attracted (as in I appreciate their beauty like a very pretty flower for example) I can confirm that my sex drive if you will biologically still ticks/itches just like anyone else’s but like a ticking clock in the background it’s just there not really meaning much to me. I can satisfy it or completely ignore it and move on with my day indifferent about it regardless. Great conversation!

[@tentative_flora2690]

If someone says they are demisexual meaning they don't experience sexual attraction until they form an emotional connection with someone. Asking "to whom are you demisexually attracted." Might have the response "I don't know yet I haven't formed that many close personal relationships."

[@okuno54]

Average, textbook asexual person? Bold of you to assume textbooks even mention us lol!

[@sarawarlestedt7242]

There is sex as in the I have nerve endings. And then there is attraction the wish to take a person home from the bar and wish to do things to or with them.

[@taeheepowers2537]

When they are talking about the semantical differences between the terms it kinda confused me how long they spent on that because like. We use the split attraction model? Which pretty much solves that problem? Like you could say Biromantic homosexual or demi-panromantic asexual

[@PurpleHat026]

An ace who likes sex but experiences no sexual attraction may choose a sexual partner based on trust, platonic attraction (friendship), romantic attraction, asthetic attraction (liking how they look generally rather than sexually or romantically) or even just based on familiarity or opportunity.

[@Nugget300]

This was very interesting to watch! If you plan on bringing up asexuality as a topic again, I definitely recommend taking a look at a channel called ace dad advice! He is very good at explaining the different parts of asexuality!

[@naniyodesu]

My way of explaining the difference between sexual attraction and sexual desire is: desire is the want to have sex, while attraction is about who you want to have it with. I feel like I do experience sexual desire to a degree, I'm just not attracted to anyone with the interest of doing it with them. So it's not that I don't desire sex, it's just that I don't want to do it with anyone. I'm fine with sex by myself but not fine with another person getting involved. I guess I'm some type of asexual then.

[@Assasinine]

As an aro and ace person, I found y’all trying to differentiate between the two to be extremely funny.

[@The_king_of_curses69]

As a aromantic person i see this as an absolute win

[@albanewest2361]

So the word "asexual" means two different things in english ? Uh. I didn't know that, that's interesting. There's two different words in french. "Asexué" is used for organisms who can reproduce asexually, and "Asexuel"(m) / "Asexuelle"(f) is used for people who experience little to no sexual attraction.

[@gabriellaschakett5571]

Honestly I think you guys should redo this episode with an ace person on because this really ended up being moreso of a an allo’s opinion of asexual things and you guys missed quite a few things that are pretty baseline intro to asexuality things like the split attraction model, allonormativity/ hypersexual society and how that plays into it, and just how little it’s recognized as in its not like legally asexuality doesn’t really exist. It would really just be nice if you could redo this with an ace and cover these things in more depth and with an ace voice because there were a lot of times when I just wanted to reach the screen and just start yelling something.

[@Rising_Pho3nix_23]

You have the "how" and the "when" and the "what". You have the "self" and the "other" and the "else". You have the "sexual" and the "romantic" and the "platonic". So, you can be a "panromantic demisexual baby transgender woman". Meaning that you would date anyone regardless of their gender or sex, and you would only have a sexual reaction after falling in love, you are a transgender woman who just accepted yourself as being transgender. There are a lot of different dimensions and combinations. It is word salad, yes. But so would an autobiography lol and these dimensions would be extremely important to know when it comes to relationships. There are other dimensions I could list, for example in the transgender bit there are pre-op, post-op, partial-op and non-op.

[@astralaura]

i would love to see another episode with an ace person !!

[@quantumlasagna4669]

Ah man this really helped me come to terms with my demisexuality.

[@stephanie5293]

Hm.. im just pondering this. Some people believe that if someone wants to view their homosexuality as something to be cured and go to conversion therapy, they should be allowed, when really what they need is to learn to accept themselves. Would keeping the dsm diagnosis for low sexual attraction be similar? Where we are validating people’s distress and enabling them to try and change something about their sexuality that isnt a problem and instead they just need to know that it is normal? Thoughts from anyone on that?

[@SciGuys]

This is difficult because it seems that these changes is sexual drive/arousal/attraction are transient - that’s where the difference between asexuality is drawn. As we spoke about in the episode, asexuality is almost on a different plane to other sexualities - so the comparison isn’t exactly 1:1. With conversion therapy for lgb people there’s a necessary denial of present attraction, while with these treatments there’s generally only an increase in strength of attraction. Subtle differences, but these treatments are also less traumatic than traditional conversion therapy. There’s also no evidence that sexual orientation can reliably be changed - but we do know that hormone levels etc can affect sex drive & arousal. It’s a fine line to walk, but there do appear to be slight differences in each case

[@oivenmann9977]

There could be a difference because the ace-spectrum covers the intensity of sexual attraction and the other sexualities cover the direction, so it's like different scales. In conversion therapy the goal is to dampen the sexual attraction to one gender and increase the sexual attraction to another gender - so you can't just give them a drug that makes them horny. If someone is treated for lack of sexual desire, you kinda can just chemically amp up the horny. I don't think they're getting traumatised into having sex and they're not prescribed 'corrective' rape, so I think it's fine

[@evertt7326]

Tbh personally, I thought I was chemically Asexual because I was on the pill for Endometriosis from the age of 16. When I wasn't on the pill, my sexual desire rose. However, what no one was realising was that my attraction to other people on or off the pill was consistently low to extremely rare. I already have a health condition that makes sex painful and had experienced sexual violence from men and women so most people/ Dr's condescendingly also assumed I was just traumatised. The amount of times I have been assumed to be depressed and offered antidepressants is astounding. I feel as though I am still in the 1960's medically speaking. After a lot of talking therapy.... I'm still ace, I just get triggered less and am not afraid to acknowledge when I feel nothing. Which as a woman... is not "normal" either culturally, just healthier for me mentally. So basically what I'm saying is this DSM sounds like medical torture to me. Your sexual desire just raises your physical need for orgasms or sexual relief but offers you no way to find others to relieve this desire with. Maybe it's just me but part of my aceness presents as I do not have fantasies. I'm fine with that usually but when I am physically aroused, I'm in a bit of a quandary. Luckily, I naturally don't feel arousal that much so in my current state- this is fine. Raising my desire without addressing any way of relieving said physical arousal seems kind of awful. Edit: Also, sexual attraction like being lgb can also be on different parts of the ace spectrum and it doesn't say how that can be factored in which concerns me. Both DSM and conversion therapy seem mentally damaging to me.

[@okuno54]

@@evertt7326 At least the DSM has an exception for ace people... but yeah general doctors just don't know this stuff and it's a real pain. I'm not sure I'll ever bother with a doc that isn't explicitly lgbt-friendly again. EDIT: though now that I've written that, I realize I might come across like I'm defending the DSM. Nah, that thing is just... blegh. Like I'm reasonably certain at this point that I have adhd, but there are no diagnostic criteria for adults with adhd, and the more I look into the more I realize that there are criteria that are left out (and likely therefore go untreated), and that the criteria are specifically designed for diagnosing boys, leaving girls in the lurch.

[@OdinsSage]

I challenge you with a duel: If you do this again with ace(s) on the show you should get a few people across the spectrum (i.e. demisexual, sex positive asexual, sex averse asexual, etc).

[@kadenjantz2180]

44:50 Although it isn't conversion therapy if applied to an allosexual going through an unwanted period of low sexual desire, it is absolutely conversion therapy. The not asexual condition added in the DSM-5 is much appreciated for helping to prevent this, but there are still many cases that it doesn't help with. Asexuals who aren't aware of the label or who aren't comfortable sharing it with the doctor still go through this. The very little asexual representation and awareness combined with the societal notion that a lack of sexual attraction makes one broken causes this to happen unfortunately frequently. Studies show that asexuals are the sexuality that is the most likely to be offered conversion therapy.

[@kristinabayer3280]

As an aro, but not ace person, I felt like the whole discussion at the beginning was very valid! Don`t forget us!!!

[@kitty-lue]

I was thinking about how, as mentioned in the video, different information is communicated with "asexual" vs "heterosexual"/"bisexual," etc. and how you'd have to get into another layer to cover the "direction," ie "heteroromantic"/"biromantic." But when I was thinking about that, there's still "aromantic," another layer of "does not apply," and then I was like "Oh yeah, actually 'asexual' does specify the same type of information that is explicitly specified by "heterosexual"/"bisexual," the key point being that these words specify who a sexual attraction is pointed at, but the communication problem lies in the interpretation of it, as people often interpret (prefix)sexual to mean all types of attraction rolled into one. So on one hand, many people are prone to interpret "asexual" as "none of the above" for all types of attraction, making the direction of any attraction not applicable even in cases where it actually is (in alloromantic asexual people). So that idea that asexual = aroace when it's a bit more complicated than that. But when we start peeling back the layers of attraction and realize "asexual" doesn't mean that no direction applies to any layer, we can forget that the same layers apply to the orientation of allosexual people (ie aromantic or biromantic heterosexual, as some random examples). I think it's kind of interesting that I also forgot to look at the layers in reverse (as an alloromantic asexual person) despite being aware that allosexual aromantics exist. ...I have no idea if that came out with any level of coherence lol

[@wasabipea57]

Plant propagation has sexual and asexual propagation methods! Things like cuttings/ division are asexual and seed propagation is sexual propagation

[@hollyisginger]

asexuals rise up :)

[@jae_ace]

I had never considered how asexuality is different info from gay/bi/etc because I use the word as an orientation to label myself. I don't experience any sexual attraction or desire and therefore genuinely can't say if I were more aligned to hetero/homo/bi/pan, I'm just ace.

[@gretalastname7712]

Here to learn more and be a better ally. Video is great!

[@smolmoru]

this hyposexual disorder topic reminded me of my first couple therapy sessions(fyi: I'm there, cuz I have ADHD .. and some trauma) I was basically a newborn aroace .. or actually still in the process of realizing it?(at age 26 btw) can't remember, but I told him one thing I wanted to work on is becoming less appalled by talking about sexual things. 2 appointments ago he asked me about that request. he knows I'm aroace. in the time that passed between me mentioning that "issue" and him asking about it, I figured out that I'm simply sex repulsed and recently a memory came back to me that is literal proof that I was like this even back when I was 14. while everyone got more horny, I just yelled at my mom and big sis how disgusting and inhumane it is to want to have sex with another person. specifically the another person factor was what made me have a aggressive repulsive reaction. my teen behavior didn't stop me from trying to "fit in" and denying my identity for over a decade. I didn't even know ace was an option until I was in my early 20s. in the end I told my therapist "well, ig it's just a form of asexuality and I shouldn't forcibly change that to be "more normal" " also thanks for talking about asexuality and explaining it quite well and especially for bringing awareness to the sex-fav aces out there. they struggle a lot with validation, cuz most people assume all aces are, like me, on the far far end of the spectrum

[@darenallisonyoung8568]

Thank you for your validating statements about us Aces. I''m middle aged, and only a few years ago figured out that other people really do experience the world differently than I do. My whole adult life, I've never experienced sexual attraction, despite being married twice and fathering a son. When allosexuals expressed their strong sexual attraction, I thought they were just performing what they thought society expected of them. My mind was blown when I learned about asexuality and realized that most folks really do look at others and experience strong desire for sex with them.

[@Ayelet_BringThemHome]

Asexual and aromantic aromantic awareness is important, but aros aren't on the ace spectrum, this is a separate spectrum. These two spectrums can be seen as a bigger, one spectrum, but this spectrum isn't named the ace spectrum.

[@3r4cha]

when sci guys validate ur sexuality 🤘😐

[@anm1236]

With Cory's manifesto (as it was called) it is very much describing the reason why the two most common ways I will describe my sexuality are as pan/ace or as queer (the former being a combination of my romantic attraction and the fact that I am asexual and the latter being a way to describe the fact that I am LGBT+ without the process of explaining what pan and ace both mean to people who could care less as so much of being panromantic asexual is explaining what it is)

[@TheHopperUK]

This is cute:) I do not experience sexual attraction and it's as simple as that to be honest. Though I do have romantic feelings. I'm biromantic and asexual:) e: I mean - allosexual people sometimes don't feel like having sex, right? Even with very attractive people, you can just have a day where you're like, meh, not really feeling like it. Well it's like that but always.

[@WhyneedanAlias]

1:09:05 It'd be a four dimensional number so lets start teaching quaternions in school please

[@JhericFury]

Our language is poorly adapted for these conversations and our language impacts how we think about things. I'm ace (and maybe aro) and I have a difficult time parsing the different aspects of sexual and romantic attraction. The biggest issue all through my journey was "how do I know I don't experience sexual attraction? If I've never experienced it, how could I know what it feels like to know I've never felt it?" But then I just look at popular media and it is obvious I feel very different to the norm.

[@matteot2810]

Think about being a non-native english listener and wanting to jump in at the nth minute of debating different meanings of the word asexual "Please, have two words for two concepts! I'll lend you 'asessuale' and 'asessuato/a' if you need those!" (asessuato, adj. for asexual reproduction or having neutral anatomy like bees)

[@renaigh]

I have an Ace up my sleeve and an Arrow in my heart.

[@lidu6363]

I don't know... I don't hear much about the _science_ of asexuality, more like attempts to clarify the terms over and over to people extremely confused by the concept of asexuality.