The Science of Transgender Sexuality (with JammiDodger) | Sci Guys Podcast

Dr Jamie Raines joins us to talk through some of his groundbreaking research with trans men, and how gender affects arousal.
FOLLOW JAMIE: / jammidodger94
Support the podcast on Patreon: / sciguys
WATCH EVERY EPISODE:
bit.ly/2z3ifN0
SUBSCRIBE TO SCI GUYS
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2TAPC3h
Spotify: spoti.fi/2H91rZu
KZbin: bit.ly/2Z7bWTk
JOIN OUR DISCORD
/ discord
FOLLOW THE PODCAST
Twitter: / sciguyspod
Instagram: / sciguyspod
FaceBook: / sciguyspod
References & Further Reading
journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1...
www.researchgate.net/profile/...
repository.essex.ac.uk/29565/1...
Follow the SCI GUYS
@notcorry / @jampkin / @lukecutforth

[@mkiroussiva9048]

Jamie being introduced as Dr. Jamie Raines makes me so friggin happy

[@rocknrogan]

I keep forgetting he’s a doctor!

[@ultraparanioa]

@@keyboarddancers7751 i hope he’s a medical doctor

[@Thatclimbingirl]

@@rocknrogan he has a phd

[@Thatclimbingirl]

@@ultraparanioa nope he has a phd

[@erinhawkins1950]

I'm a cis, straight mom of two LGBT teenagers. I've kind of dived head first into all the transgender information ever since my oldest came out as trans last year and I just LOVE Jamie's content on KZbin for informing the world about the science, reality, and respect of trans people. I really hope that there are more studies to prove all of the terfs wrong and stop the nonsense of saying that trans people don't exist.

[@Kaeresh]

Sorry, not really relevant to what you wrote but I just really wanted to thank you for being a supportive parent. It helps so incredibly much.

[@AlisonL520]

I would thank you too bit I suppose that's what parents are meant to be. I wholeheartedly agree about Jamie, he got his doctorate not long ago so when people say provide me your research, his research is right there. His videos are always so heartwarming and kind. Lights up your day even if it's a simple reaction video towards something

[@smilefenn4813]

i love you. thank you for being an accepting and truly unconditionally loving mother. you are an amazing person and an example to mothers everywhere

[@AlisonL520]

@@blacktigerpaw1 Sorry who's she? What?

[@AlisonL520]

I retract my statement. Get out of here. Besides as Jamie explained his supervisor got him that out of confusion and ignorance. You clearly watch somewhat so stop trying to be annoying because you can 🤦‍♀️ Leave

[@charlesnader8492]

In reference to how scientific articles (especially about trans people) are so confusing: I learned about phalloplasty for transgender men YEARS before I learned being trans was even an option, because when looking in to how I could get a penis as a girl (I have since learned I am trans man) I found multiple articles on “females” getting phalloplasty. Like I explored MULTIPLE resources about explicitly trans men but at no point was it ever made clear that they were anything other than females. Had I learned that transitioning from female to male was an option I would have realized my own identity years earlier

[@oliviawolcott8351]

we definitely need more trans and queer people doing research into our community.

[@AlisonL520]

This is exactly what I hate about the whole male female thing with trans people. It's so confusing! Some people say you're the sex you're born as and others say male and female correspond to your gender. I call myself female despite being a trans woman because in most aspects of life that's what I'm seen as. Driving license, ID, even birth certificates can be changed (well when I get it all sorted out legally that is). The issue with scientific journalling like that is sometimes it's not made clear. I agree in medical scenarios male is whoever's amab and vice versa but it should be stated when writing about transgender people. That's what I like about Jamie, a trans person who has done the research to show and backup the trans community

[@kaiyodei]

@Real Ray what about for non human animals?

[@DUWANGlai_kangyi]

@Real Ray Quite the contrary, I think people should stop assigning gender to the words female and male. These words are scientific and more formal, and they're perfect to refer to just sex. If only that was how we went about things.

[@DUWANGlai_kangyi]

@Real Ray I actually really agree on all the points here, I'm sorry if I misunderstood the first message. I personally call myself female for my own reasons and for my own healing, but that's not something I usually use on others as I know it can be a bit harsh and too clinical. And I don't like it when people who I _know_ aren't respectful use it like that either, it feels dehumanizing. That's why I usually say "female/male body", "female/male hygiene", "female/male reproduction" (to put a few examples) when referring to others as well as myself. I also like doing the whole "female person/people" or the same with male because I'm purposefully making it gender neutral, but that's more among people I know are alright with that.

[@thiel_spencer]

My favorite part about my own experience being trans (ftm) and having a sexuality is when I first realized that finally being a guy and being seen as a man with basically a, like, 90% preference for women makes me mostly straight. I had to sit down for a second lmao, I've identified with queer for so long that being "outwardly" straight was like, um, excuse me? What is this?! 🤣

[@FizzyWM]

As a straight person, coming out as trans (mtf) has been strange. I guess that means I'm a lesbian now? Or something? I guess? I have no idea. It feels weird using that word. Total imposter syndrome

[@oliviawolcott8351]

I experienced a similar thing as a trans woman but in reverse. I'm bisexual but lean more heavily towards women, and when I came out and started transitioning I had to take a moment to take in that my attraction to women was now seen as queer instead of straight.

[@oliviawolcott8351]

@@FizzyWM yeaaaah.... its strange. but yep, in the eyes of society atleast you now be gay.

[@kaiyodei]

@@FizzyWM don't forget, trans women who don't look like women should be "on your plate"

[@FreeAssange]

you don't even pass in the way you type.

[@oliviawolcott8351]

what's interesting about that study about if bisexual men exist is that it appears to presume that bisexual people have a 50/50 split between attraction when in reality bisexual people can have a preference while still being attracted to multiple genders.

[@frejo1931]

also maybe they just thought one of the videos were hotter idk

[@rottenheather]

this here. some people just arent that driven to lust over every person they see. bi sexual for some is almost asexual. and for some gender had nothing to even do with relations while others require a hiarchy of dynamics. theres more than just whos top and whos bottom :P

[@mackthompson616]

id be interested in studying asexuals with this to see drive vs attraction

[@fabianshedenhelm2986]

Same here

[@erika2_2]

they were testing arousal not drive tho, different things

[@argonianbum]

Unfortunately (for the sake of studies) there isn't a correlation there. To add onto what Erika said, some ace people can have really high sex drives where others don't. Some ace people enjoy the act of sex but do not experience sexual attraction. For example, I (as an ace person) could not tell you by looking at a supermodel, a porn video, or meeting someone, whether or not I would want to have sex with them. Whatever attraction people feel towards that is just entirely... Missing to me. I don't masturbate and have a really low sex drive, so I cannot speak for aces with higher labidos in terms of where their mind goes when they do that, but my understanding is that it is treated more like they seek relief and may enjoy the feeling, but it isn't something they feel the need to seek out. I have a romantic drive, however, and so I seek out romantic relationships. I love my boyfriend, I've been with him for like...5-6 years? and I still enjoy affection. The only feeling I've had for a celebrity or whatever is that I do find some people incredibly beautiful and I do experience the feeling of finding someone to be cute or huggable, but in terms of sexually it's like... I can't even rank it.

[@lilymercy]

im almost tempted as an ace to see if my local universities are doing experiments on sexuality and add an ace to the pot. like they ask my my orientations and i go ace and their like why volunteer?

[@gms9608]

There are actually a few studies looking at measures of sexual response in individuals who identify as asexual. Skorska et al. (2023) compared a sample of 20 asexual men to 27 heterosexual and 22 gay men, all of whom were cisgender. They used a penile plethysmograph to measure genital arousal while viewing a series of stimuli depicting dyadic and solitary sexual activity, and a few people in the sample's genital arousal response to sexual fantasies (irrespective of the prior stimuli) was measured as well. They also used a series of scales measuring different aspects of sexuality, and showed that "asexual men scored lower on sexual desire and orgasmic function, higher on sexual aversion, and did not differ on overall sexual satisfaction." In regards to their genital responses, "compared with gay and heterosexual men, asexual men demonstrated lower genital and subjective sexual arousal to the erotic films but displayed similar sexual arousal when engaging in sexual fantasy.", concluding that, though asexual men do show a distinct pattern of genital sexual response, they "have a similar capacity for sexual arousal as sexual [i.e. non-asexual] men." On their part, Brotto & Yule (2011) looked at a sample of 38 women, 7 of whom were asexual. They used a vaginal photoplethysmograph (a similar device to a penile plethysmograph specifically constructed for the vagina) to measure genital response when looking at a set of sexual and neutral stimuli. At the physiological level, they showed no significant differences in genital response. However, at a subjective level, asexual women "showed significantly less positive affect, sensuality-sexual attraction, and self-reported autonomic arousal to the erotic film compared to the other groups". They concluded that, given that the asexual women in the sample did not differ in their capability of experiencing genital response to sexual stimuli, "the findings suggest normal subjective and physiological sexual arousal capacity in asexual women and challenge the view that asexuality should be characterized as a sexual dysfunction.". Another very recent study by Milani et al. (2023) looked at a sample of 95 individuals, 13 of which were asexual men, 18 of which were asexual women, and 8 of which were asexual non-binary people. They used eye-tracking technology to measure visual attention to sexual and non-sexual stimuli. As originally predicted, findings showed that, contrary to heterosexual participants, who fixated more attention to sexual than non-sexual stimuli, asexual participants "exhibited a more even distribution of attention" across sexual and non-sexual stimuli. As far as I'm aware, these are the only studies looking at objective measures of sexual arousal in people who identify as asexual. Though these studies shed a promising light on different aspects of asexuality (and, more concretely, physiological and psychological responses as measured with more objective than self-report-based procedures), research on asexuality as a whole is very limited and scant, and a lot of aspects need further investigation. An interesting note to add is most of the researchers in these studies (Malvina Skorska, Anthony Bogaert, Lori Brotto, and Morag Yule) identify as asexual and have advocated for asexuality-related projects. If you look their names up on KZbin, there are some videos where they talk about these aspects. --- References: Brotto, L., & Yule, M. (2011). Physiological and Subjective Sexual Arousal in Self-Identified Asexual Women. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 40(4), 699-712. Milani, S., Zdaniuk, B., Bogaert, A. F., Rieger, G., & Brotto, L. A. (2023). Examining Visual Attention Patterns among Asexual and Heterosexual Individuals. The Journal of Sex Research, 60(4), 1-11. Skorska, M., Yule, M. A., Bogaert, A. F., & Brotto, L. A. (2023). Patterns of Genital and Subjective Sexual Arousal in Cisgender Asexual Men. The Journal of Sex Research, 60(3), 1-18.

[@OdinsSage]

I know Jamie is a doctor, but it's always weird to hear him CALLED Dr. Jamie. Super cool, but I'm always like "no, he's precious, adorable, Jammidodger."

[@OdinsSage]

GASP* DR. JAMMIDODGER!

[@alphabettiispaghetti5380]

I'm bi but in a long term straight passing relationship. I love watching/listening to you guys as a geneticist, it really gives me the opportunity to lightly explore science other than the very niche field I am currently in. So interesting while being lovely and entertaining too!

[@tyghe_bright]

I'm a gay trans man. I didn't understand that I'm trans until my 40s. And when that clicked, it helped me understand my sexuality. I'd always been attracted to men, but distinctly and mostly to gay and bisexual men. I'd been in relationships with gay men that were awkward and confusing because they weren't attracted to women and said I reminded them of previous boyfriends. I'm never comfortable with the narrative that gender and sexuality are different things, because being attracted to men as a woman and being attracted to men as a man, or as a non-binary person, are very different experiences of sexuality. And being gay as a trans man is distinct from being gay as a cis man (in similar ways that being a man who is cis versus a man who is trans is different.) It's fascinating that you had to find a basis in existing science to do your study. That clearly is a mechanism which enforces the status quo and delays new information.

[@kaiyodei]

you would be attracted to a man that could be misidentifed as a cis woman on a nudist beach right?

[@oliviawolcott8351]

Sci Guys, would you consider doing a episode on autogynophilia and talk about the "science" behind it. I think its important to highlight poorly done science in order to understand where these ideas come from.

[@sleepyleftie]

Contrapoints made a great video on it

[@aprilk141]

I also read, The man who would be Queen, it was so bad. I fit into both models he put forth making both wrong and his research was basically picking up hookers at a gay bar.

[@irohautala2307]

I'm asexual, wtf-romantic (I literally do not know), transgender guy. Just commenting this before even watching the rest of the video because you guys asked lmao. I haven't watched many videos from you but I love Jamie's content so I'm excited for this.

[@lilymercy]

ooo im stealing wtf romantic.

[@annalisasteinnes]

I was trying to figure out what wtf meant--like, was it woman to female? 🙄

[@eboone]

@@annalisasteinnes lol

[@AmalaFrequents]

I'm asexual and non-binary. It had never occurred to me they were linked- I was very strongly ace from a young age and realised that well before I understood anything about my gender. But when I was talking with my mum once (who is well intentioned but not well versed) I was describing how a friend's mum hadn't been surprised about me being nb despite not really knowing the term, and she commented that well I'd never really shown any attraction growing up so it wasn't out of the blue. And I was like ??? At which point I realised she very much seems to think being ace and nb (more agender for me) were linked. I realised that a lot of people conflate gender and sexuality as if one is an outcome of the other. I think it's probably to do with some very basic stereptypes of camp gay men appearing more feminine butch lesbians more masculine etc. and assuming gender is related to presentations. But it completely caught me off guard. However- as someone from a sociology background I am so happy Jamie mentioned how a lot of trans academic discussions come from philosophy departments. Sometimes it feels like there is a disconnect that non-science based stuff can be like 'I'm going to call trans women male because that is their physical sex and what is relevant here' like the trans men bit is some indulgence of society but not accurate 'scientific' description, whilst research like Jamie's is showing trans people are a distinct category not some social idea and transness is scientifically necessary language. Because most of the philosophy isn't based on the reality of transness but the idea of it- 'what if a man wearing a dress got in the women's changing room and we were not allowed to complain because transphobia protection' vs most people are not obviously trans you've probably been changing with them for years and just never known and you probably will continue not to. This was a really interesting episode.

[@xsilhouette8198]

Bisexual AFAB enby (not ace)- my mum was also not surprised when I came out as non binary (or bi tbh i think for that matter) but I think it's partly because when we went to clothing stores i would also look at the "mens" clothing as well as the "womens", though there may be more to it, I haven't quizzed her on why she wasn't surprised

[@justynafigas-skrzypulec3349]

The problem is not with philosophy as a whole but with bad philosophy. Sincerely, a philosopher.

[@cyndrift]

my dad said the same thing about the ace/nb connection when I came out as nb. Like I get it, you're trying to process it and make connections and both identities kinda lack something society assumes of people, but it almost feels like it's trying to excuse my nb-ness as an inevitability, an assumption that I made or just an "eh I'm not going to have sex anyways so why not be nonbinary too" rather than it being a long, difficult and emotionally taxing process I had to go through that would've happened regardless of my sexuality

[@evertt7326]

@@xsilhouette8198 Just an aside on maybe why the mums weren't surprised. My niece came out as trans after at first saying she wanted to be an actor, then she came out as a femme gay boy and all of that time it just seemed like something was... off. But when she said "I'm a girl" I just felt a sort of relief, like "of course you are" I'm so glad to be finally meeting the you you authentically are. It's not that I "knew" I just recognised the her that was always there, so it wasn't really surprising? Hope that makes sense?

[@xsilhouette8198]

@@evertt7326 makes perfect sense (: ty

[@WhichDoctor1]

Im bi and also hovering on the edge of demisexual. Currently exploring my sexuality in several ethically non-monogamous intimate friendships

[@twylenb]

You can be demi and bi at the same time. Bi describes what sorts of people you're attracted to while demi describes that romantic or sexual attraction only comes after a long period of getting to know someone platonically. I know many who describe themselves at demipan, as well as other combinations of the ace spectrum with their other sexual orientation.

[@TJBaer-kq1he]

This was fascinating - so great to get to hear Jamie talk about his research. And to answer your question at the top of the episode re: sexuality, I'm a panromantic, demisexual trans guy.

[@minoyd]

Crawling out of the TERF discourse torture pit to hear you lovely people. It's been rough so this is a wonderful break.

[@dancingCactus]

58:07 I really like what you had to say about moving forward using "attracted to men[/women]" and while I agree that it is the clearest language and thus probably best for these purposes, there is a part of me as a trans woman who does wish our sexuality labels could have been included in the paper. The fact that it is "too confusing" but the wrong labels weren't is kinda dehumanizing and it would be nice to reclaim some of that humanity.

[@webba0342]

Feels so weird to see jamie without his yellow chair or usual bright background behind him lol

[@coralovesnature]

I am non-binary and uranic (attracted to those who range from neutral to masc). I would love to see Jamie or another member of the trans community do a study on the relationship between non-binary gender and attraction.

[@tyrennosaur]

I’m a trans guy and identified as bi for several years before transitioning because I knew I wasn’t straight but was into men. I identify as gay/homoflexible and on the aro spectrum now.

[@crystinacallahan8890]

a PhD in general buscuit theory is honestly goals

[@J03098]

I'm bi and super excited that Jamie's on Sci Guys!

[@dorarandom7870]

I don't think cis people understand how much your gender effects your sexuality. As a trans guy, it always felt weird that it was considered "straight" when I liked a guy (before I figured out I was trans), cuz it just didn't feel like it. It wasn't only me wanting to be in a relationship with a man, it was me wanting to be in a gay relationship with a man. But because I thought I was a woman, I just thought "maybe I just want to be in a gay relationships with a woman". It worked in my mind, because I'm also very much attracted to women, so the idea of me being with a man became very distant. It's only now, that I'm more confident in my gender identity, as a trans man, that I began to see and experience my attraction towards men. While my attraction to women didn't really play such a big role in "discovered" myself (I have an idea why but it's too long to explain), it did change afterwards, to better of course. Discovering my gender identity amongst so many other things, changed how I experienced my sexuality.

[@imaginareality]

Last year I had to read a bunch of scientific papers about gender dysphoria in childhood and it was kind of hard because of the language they used and also just the false and harmful things that were said in some of these articles. It feels really good to know that there is research out there now that was conducted (in part) by a trans person, uses respectful language and comes from a place of . idk how to call it? - solidarity and understanding. I just read through the dissertation and the first journal article and it's really cool! I don't know Jamie but I'm still proud of him xD

[@wendyyoung1945]

Aaa

[@theinternetsavedmylife]

In other words, I didn't agree with what they said so it wasn't "respectful"

[@pandajesus5052]

To answer the question at the beginning: uh yeah my sexuality is a mess and I’ve decided not to label it lmao- so ye I just go w the broadest labels I can find (nb and queer) and ✨that’s all right✨

[@Robb3636]

I'm gay and asexual. Previously identified as straight and asexual before realising I was a trans guy. People keep telling me my sexuality will change on T (as in less asexual, become sexually attracted to people) but I have my doubts. I'll see, I don't really mind either way

[@Dunedien]

As someone that is ace on T, that's not necessarily true. Your libido will probably pick up, but that doesn't mean you'll find more people attractive. I have also heard some people do report their sexuality changing though. Just didn't happen for me.

[@kiralonely1307]

This may be a dark comparison, but I find your insight on the two types of like arousal intriguing because I've heard similar things in reference to SA. Rather, that someone may physically REACT to it, but not at all feel mentally like aroused, if that makes sense. Again, dark subject, but it's interesting how that correlates to the discussion here, and really leads me to suspect that there likely is at least some form of differing arousal types.

[@RexxyRobin]

It's wild to me that people could have physiological arousal responses regardless of sexuality. I have to really concentrate to find people attractive or be aroused at all, and if something distracts me, like my nose itching or a car door slamming outside, that arousal will just evaporate. Sometimes I'll call off sex, because all that mental work is giving me a headache^^

[@fragmentsofanusha]

This is a neurodiverse thing

[@RexxyRobin]

@@fragmentsofanusha In many cases sure. But I have no issues with focus/concentration otherwise. I think it has more to to with demisexuality or smth like that. Milo Stewart and Evie Lupine have talked about how people have different levels of how easily they are aroused and how easily they can stay that way.

[@caffe1n8ed]

Are you on the ace spectrum? :)

[@litheon1289]

I'm nonbinary, and I'm pan/bi. (But I'm not really attracted to super masculine people. Not sure how to explain it but that's my understanding lol) I really liked this video, great stuff to learn about. I'm curious what afab, amab, and intersex nobinary people's sexuality goes to. But, nonbinary research comes usually after trans-binary research so I dont expect that stuff to be studied for quite some time lol.

[@xsilhouette8198]

I'm very interested in research and i hope to be involved in some way or another but hopefully a lot more gender queer research starts appearing soon- i'm a bi enby and i sorta understand the masculine people thing (masc women are hot though) but i think i associate masculine men with sorta play boy stereotypes and i also assume they would have no interest in me as they come across very straight (a bias i should probably work on fixing)

[@unionunicorn6776]

I’m the same way! I consider myself cis, but I am bisexual too but I have never been attracted to super “masculine” men and I am more attracted to very feminine women or “feminine” or “sensitive” men. Or to put it in poor terms, I would go for the “beta” over the “alpha” any day! And unfortunately there has never been a clear way to describe this particular type of sexual attraction and so I usually just say bi but that doesn’t really cover it. You could say I’m mostly attracted to femininity. So I think it’s kind of funny that I ended up marrying a “man” who is actually a trans woman.

[@sarac2609]

Heteroromantic grey-ace, apparently. I'm highly amused that my sexuality has such a long label and was ecstatic when I found out (through Avengers fanfiction) that it existed!

[@jamesmoriarty2329]

I want that fanficton. For research purposes…of course

[@stoyanpetkov3853]

My 'homoromantic ace' isn't too much shorter so I get that. Can't say I relate in terms of Avengers fan fiction though. lol. I just had to go through a lot of comphet and figuring out what asexuality is.

[@kunaihanaki2914]

lol I kinda found my chosen name through fanfiction Glad you found the label you feel comfortable with

[@TheNitpickChick]

Biromantic Ace here. I also figured out the ace part through fanfics. lol 😁 (The Magnus Archives fanfics to be precise.) I knew of the term Asexual before that, but was convinced it didn’t apply to me because I’m sex indifferent, rather than sex repulsed. But, reading enough fanfics from various Ace writers writing about ace characters, something just finally clicked and made me go _”….Oh!_ Okay, yeah, that explains a lot!” 😅

[@79mib]

1) Jamie is so wholesome. 2) thanks for addressing “autogynophilia” and the hideous that comes out of the Bailey lab.

[@matthewking8806]

Very interesting & informative. You guys always do a great job.

[@mallory7198]

Damn Corry be hittin’ the gym. Also I’m extremely bisexual lmao✌🏻✌🏻

[@schniT_T]

As a person who has a lot of confusion about my identity and is absolutely fascinated by topics related to sexual identity and orientation, it's so wonderful to see people organizing and adding to the pool of knowledge on these topics. Thanks, Jammi and sci guys

[@evan244]

Luke “out yourself immediately.” Best way of putting it.😂😂 Also Straight.

[@alisaurus4224]

I knew that people can have physical sexual arousal without being mentally “into it”, especially in assault cases, but i always thought of only the body responding to touch, not visual stimuli (ie porn). I hadn’t thought it was possible to disconnect finding something unsexy to look at in your conscious opinion while your brain is interpreting it to provoke sexual response in your body. It may be obvious that any stimulus, visual/tactile/other, will be processed in the brain, but i suppose i had assumed that we had more control over how our body reacts to visual stimuli for some reason. Not the main point of the discussion here but it gave me something to think about. Always lovely to see Jamie, of course!

[@julieregalado6086]

Jamie - well done for using the apporpriate descriptions despite academic conventions. Those conventions need to change and it really does take guts to do that in that paradigm.

[@tinnagigja3723]

When you consider that transitioning does not affect the trans person's sexual orientation or their attraction to their spouse, and if that relationship continues it changes (from an outside perspective) from a "straight relationship" to a "gay relationship" or vice versa, it seems like bisexuality of some description is kind of 'built-in' to a lot of trans peoples' experience.

[@sashamacritchie2427]

I see how your thoughts lead you here but I think your conclusion is a bit inaccurate. I'm a lesbian trans woman and I didn't identify my own gender until I was 16 (I'm 27 now). So before, when I thought I was a boy, I thought I was straight. I've never been attracted to men so I'm not bisexual but the people who are attracted to me now and before could be considered bi. Hope this helps.

[@tinnagigja3723]

​@@sashamacritchie2427 Yes, that's pretty much what I was thinking - perhaps I should have made clearer that the trans person in my example is sort of the 'object' of someone's bisexuality. I was struggling a bit with the phrasing. Thank you :)

[@unionunicorn6776]

Funny enough, I am bisexual, and my sister is pansexual, and we both (unknowingly at the time) married trans people, because it turns out a lot of trans people select bisexual partners “just in case” they ever do transition. Hope that helps. ^^

[@pffffggg]

I am a proofreader and a thesis editor (in spanish) so I work a LOT with researches and I am incredibly happy to know the detail of Jamie's research process. Thank you, guys

[@pffffggg]

I am amazed of the fact that these weren't measured by encephalograms

[@tobyatlas6480]

Sidestepped the whole "some sexuality lables are gendered and im nonbinary" problem by just being aro/ace. Life hacks, y'all

[@annafre1789]

Loved this! You got a new listener :)

[@EJ10931]

For that question at the beginning, I'm Pan and Ace. I also love that you did a collab with Jamie!

[@beepboop9756]

looking forward to more studies in this field

[@daerongaladhrim]

really good. I'll be reading that thesis from Jamie.

[@vanitycalamity2195]

I thoroughly enjoy listening to Jaime. Appreciate your podcast. 😊

[@halloweenallyearround4889]

This was such an interesting and exciting episode. Challenging biases in scientific research is extremely necessary and very interesting to discuss/ listen to. I feel so much stranger pride for Jamie and appreciation for the Sci Guys' allyship. I'm non binary trans (either agender or autigender), and demipansexual.

[@moonlightmoonchild1133]

I'm very excited about this episode! my favorite people together 🥺 (I'm asexual&aromantic. and agender as well)

[@AmalaFrequents]

Triple A high five ✋

[@moonlightmoonchild1133]

@@AmalaFrequents 🥺🖐

[@beardlessdragon]

It was so cool to see Jamie on here!! Fascinating study. I'm so happy that he's pushing for more accurate studies and information in the scientific community. I'm so interested to see what else we learn in the future! To answer your sexuality question, I am a demipansexual agender person!

[@RAyR111]

👏👏👏👏👏very informative while entertaining! This was great

[@alinab5883]

This is actually one of my favorite episodes! Super interesting topic!... Now I kinda wanna bombard Jamie with so many questions. He seems to know so much about this and I want information, all of it! I'm a bisexual cis woman btw

[@argonianbum]

Jamie is not only fantastically helpful as a content creator, but the care and publishing of this study will benefit transpeople for generations.

[@Urube23]

I'm a bisexual demigirl. Also I love that Jamie's here, he's such an eloquent and nice guy. uwu

[@Seal0626]

Oh dear, the captioner didn't know the material. Great podcast. Very informative.

[@puffpride8344]

I'm asexual and panromantic. I also use queer as a label. I'm non-binary too. I use the galactian alignments (cometian) :)

[@SandraLugn-nc1rk]

THIS WAS REALLY GOOD

[@Your0Dark0Angel]

"What were the rooms like" Corry asking the most important questions lol. Also deff recommend reading Jamie's paper, its really interesting

[@annaholl3393]

Great episode again ❤️

[@fridaroper935]

Such a great episode, really interesting to hear about Jamie's work :)) We definitely need more good studies on trans people not done by transphobes! On the topic of cognitive bias, I wanted to share the weirdest conversation I'd had and maybe someone can come up with a response to this. I was trying to explain that we should try to understand and overcome our biases and this straight white cis man in his 60s responded with 'why should I, they're a part of who I am.' And I was just honestly not sure how to respond to that - any suggestions for future conversations welcome?

[@xsilhouette8198]

because they're inaccurate and it's making him more close minded and shutting him off from learning others very varied experiences (though it sounds like any conversation you suggest he'll find a way to worm around it)

[@liranpiade4499]

Hmm, the idea that Testosterone isn't the determining factor actually makes sense. Anecdotally, I can and also did compare my past, pre-HRT sexual responses, and while there is a big difference, from the cis men I spoke to, there's also a massive difference between my pre-HRT (so back when I had lots of Testosterone) responses and their responses

[@miashinbrot8388]

On describing the same person as "a gay trans guy" and "a heterosexual transsexual female" -- it took me awhile to see how those two phrases could be used to describe the same person. Eventually I realized that in both cases, it's someone who is AFAB and attracted to men.

[@Amozon28]

1:03:00 ok but like as jamie mentioned earlier you often need established research before doing a study which is why he initially struggled with this study because in a lot of ways it was a first. So even tho jamie wasnt able to get a big sample size, this study can allow for huge jumping off piibts in future similar studies

[@LilithEADelain]

I love you all so much. You all are beautiful and i love that you do this i such an inviting but still intelligent and informative way. Please keep it up. I plan on being a long time listener.

[@queenofshred]

I'm a cis woman and bi/abro, depending on who's definition I use. I've had times in my life that I've been completely straight and others where I was completely gay, and some where I'm attracted to two or more genders. Been told before that I need to "make up my mind", or I'm "fake", or "living a lie", but I can't help that my attraction changes. I've been married to the same guy for 15 years and it doesn't bother me that most of that time I haven't been attracted to him -- there's more to life than that. My orientation appears to change with my hormones.

[@ElysiumsJourney]

Huh! I've thought that last line before. I've just kinda thought I was making it up. Cool to see I'm not alone. Just about the only time I find men more attractive than women is leading up to my "fertilization period." I'm a trans woman, so I very much can't give birth...God, the dysphoria during this time is terrible (can safely say that since I pass as any other woman... this is where almost all of my dysphoria is located). Also yes, trans women can get cycles like any other woman (minus the obvious stuff). I get a majority of the symptoms including cramps 😤

[@greentearain]

@@ElysiumsJourney lmao

[@user-om5tv5fd9s]

I really enjoyed listening to this. Just wanted to mention that for me as a non-English native speaker the subtitles would be helpful to understand especially all the technical terms etc. but unfortunately seem to often be incorrect or inconsistent (not the “automatic” one, the one titled “English(UK)”). As a non-native AND non-expert in this field I had a hard time figuring out that f. Ex. „mythoplastia“ is supposed to mean (I think) metoidioplasty etc.

[@jones-wq1de]

I'm queer :) I'm probably somewhere on the ace spectrum and bi- or panromantic, I guess. I'm usually just using queer though, partly because i don't think it's necessary to be more specific and also because I haven't really figured it out myself yet and don't know if I really need to.

[@leos_act]

Y'all being so smart, ima just pop in with the classic 2 hearts

[@watcher190]

It would also be interesting to see results from adults who transitioned from early teens/even before to see how that plays an impact in results. Does male socialization from a younger age impact results?

[@Cloudmuffintops]

I generally don't like to define my sexuality and I'm big on changing the way we view sexuality socially from something we "are" to something we "do" if that makes sense. But I guess the most accurate label for me would be some version of pansexual.

[@ashlikethetree1541]

last year i used to watch so much sci guys and jammidodger so now i've started watching again it makes me so happy :) (im trans and bi to answer your question)

[@aprilk141]

Y'all have wonderful chemistry.

[@TheTransDevin520]

Yes Jamie! Thank your mom for us for having you. Because your mom is amazing. And you are amazing. And I'm proud to stand next to you as trans brothers. And all the work you do for our community. You are a bright light in so many trans people's lives. And it all started with an amazing woman bring an amazing kid into this world.

[@andreahidalgolujan7029]

Pan! But I just usually say "I don't really care who you are as long as I like you and you like me back"

[@samfowler7689]

Jamie is that the levis Felix the Cat collab? I think I have that same sweater and it's dope

[@xXCamera_ShyXx]

Yo! I’m a pre-op trans man on T for 2 years, I’d love to contribute to a study if he does another one!

[@pinecone9053]

I am non-binary/genderfluid (questioning) and aroace I just found this podcast already love it ❤

[@thkonstantofbeing1887]

now THIS is the content worth sharing, really proud of those of people like Jamie who lighten up these topics and do it the most accurate way thanks to your podcast/videos/etc. Thats really the stuff anyone needs to study if interested, instead of shaming people (lghtbtq+ people in particularly), making them hate themselves, maikin them hate parts of their being and existing. Thanks'yall very very much. Greets from Russia. Love your videos.

[@jgbreezer]

Talking about the results from 50:20 (commenting cos I came back to try and find this summary of them again and it took a bit - didn't feel like reading the paper)

[@LilySains]

It's Jamie! Love from us at UofE x

[@azulBjort_1406]

Eeeeeyyy Jamie dodger!! ✌️ I'm pan ace

[@sylvanwho176]

@Sci Guys or @Jammidodger (or @anyone else), are there any good papers studying the sexuality/arousal of nonbinary people, or asexual people?

[@mrmidnight8975]

Can anyone please post the link for Jamies thesis? I would like to read it as well 😊

[@SciGuys]

Linked in the description!

[@athenaamethyst8385]

I'm a cis, queer/bi woman, who's polyamorous and has three long term partners. 😅 and I'm a mom of 2...basically, I'm just a super busy stressed out queer person. Lol

[@Kimmie6772]

I'm Somewhere in between asexual (or aro to be more precise), lesbian, and bisexual. I still have no idea because I've never really felt the need to date anyone (partly because I've never been in a good headspace for it), but so far it's pretty safe to say I'm into women to the point I've come out as a lesbian. I've still got some libido and definitely a level of attraction, just don't know fully to what or to what extent.

[@j3wpacabra]

aceflux demigirl here, love your content :)

[@tanner3806]

Im asexual and panromantic but I don't really identify with it too strictly 🤷‍♂️ And that's fine too y'know, I don't wanna have a super strict label :))

[@jimbomyboy9679]

bi and pan (i feel like both labels apply to me) and arospec (I know that's romantic orientation and not sexual orientation but it's important to me)

[@dangkhoa0202]

Contrapoints mentioned in her Autogynephilia video that so many academics alr believed in this theory, but I didn't think it was so widespread. Now I was gasping when Jamie's supervisor recommended Bailey's book to him 😩

[@jennipherem3695]

I'm a trans lesbian, to a first approximation. What might confound a "gender critical" reading of my identity is that I am attracted and sexually active with both cis and other trans women. My sexuality never fit into any male box, to the extent that I thought I was asexual for a long time. Would love some research of this calibre into attraction in trans women.

[@Paul-wd8cz]

Really enjoyed this episode, but there's a minor issue in the subtitles. The word metoidioplasty is showing as mythoplastia (Greek for fiction).

[@sylvanwho176]

They talk about results of Jamie's research starting at 50:25

[@SarcasticSean]

This research took *Are you watching corn by your self?* *No I'm with the science team. YEAAAAAAAH.* to another level and I'm living for it.

[@MommyOfZoeAndLiam]

I hope this study might lead to better advances in the medical equipment like the penile guage maybe being tweaked and redesigned to work properly for a pre-op trans man, perhaps combining the vaginal probe WITH a smaller penile guage that is perhaps made in a way that it is easier to attach if someone has already been on testosterone long enough to grow enough to use it (up to patient comfort obviously).

[@lolaarcana]

I have read a few studies that suggest those born biologically female show arousal when under stress or scared. This is theorised as being due to arousal that leads to lubrication protecting against damage done during rape. Did any of your research show anything that could be linked to these findings?

[@jameskirk5956]

Does anyone know if Jamie’s paper is online and able to be read anywhere?

[@SciGuys]

Linked in the description!

[@RenetaScian]

I know this is old, but do y'all have a pitch or place you can send people to participate in studies on trans people? I mean, it doesn't seem super easy to find this stuff. Though, I SUPPOSE if y'all are searching for people. Though, I am curious about studies that look at neurodiversity in trans folks. Just me personally, and I'm keen on participating if there is info.

[@brucebruce8758]

Where can I read Jamie's dissertation?

[@thatssoderek2188]

I find the general discussion on LGB arousal never really complete. I identify as a gay cis man. I'm attracted to trans men as well as cis men. And I gravitate towards the masculine spectrum, as in beards and muscles and chest hair etc. I am not however very turned on by twinks. By using the word gay it sounds like Im attracted to all men, which isnt exactly the case. I would even find muscular women attractive. Am I actually bi? Am I merely masculine attracted? Similarly theres a lot of anti-trans rhetoric around these days on twitter regarding cis lesbians and trans women with penises. Attraction is a lot more than body parts of course, but it always feels like the nuance and complexity of attraction gets lost/ignored. Or rather people seem to rely on the sensational headline version of attraction rather than appreciating the diversity.

[@chester1882]

54:17 that’s me! But on the confusing part - for me when I see someone I’m attracted to the question is: do I want to BE them or be WITH them? The only type of confusion I’ll accept.

[@alphabetadams1024]

jamie: ok sir do you have any questions about the experiment? subject: um,,,,,,,source?

[@luke]

Bear

[@purplekitten6637]

Regarding the question at the beginning of the podcast, I define myself as queer. I don't want to put a strict label on my sexuality, I'm just attracted to whoever I happen to be attracted to. I also sometimes call myself bi or pan, but my favourite sexuality label is queer because of how vague and flexible it is. I feel like, as a trans guy, my sexuality has gone through too many phases for my to be able to put it in a very clear box.