The secret of nutrient density, with Marty Kendall - Diet Doctor Podcast

Will eating more protein and focusing on nutrient density help you eat better and reach your health goals? Marty Kendall from optimisingnutrition.com thinks the answer is yes.
Marty has collected hundreds of thousands of observational data points to help him reach this conclusion. In our interview, we discuss the details that make all the difference when it comes to understanding and implementing his nutrient density way of eating.
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Table of content:
0:00 Introduction
3:03 The concept of nutrient density
9:48 The balance between nutrient and energy density
16:33 An ideal amount for protein intake
21:06 Defining high satiety foods
26:29 Using CGM to dictate when to eat
34:36 Differentiating palatability and satiety
39:19 Biggest hurdles for people following a higher protein diet
43:41 The best eating window for satiety eating
50:08 Gearing your food intake based on CGM
About us:
DietDoctor.com is the world's number one low-carb site. Follow us for delicious recipes, meal plans and tools to make your low-carb and keto lifestyle simple. But this KZbin channel does not contain all our videos!

[@LoriTildenLeeke]

I LOVE getting to listen to this interview. I can testify to the effectiveness and helpfulness of what Marty is teaching. I have been using Marty’s teaching about treating a glucose meter as my fuel gauge (also known as DataDriven Fasting) since 2018. It has worked beautifully for me. I was able to get off all of my menopausal weight gain and have maintained my weight in a healthy waist-to-height range for three year. I also was able to get off thyroid medication that I had been using since 1997. I eat all kinds of foods, not having to neglect any of the macros. When I am composing a meal for myself, I begin by prioritizing protein and nutrients, and then I decide if I want to add in either or both of the energy sources (fats & carbs). I want others to know how helpful it is to use Marty’s teaching, so I recorded day-by-day videos of my most recent 30-Day DataDriven Fasting Challenge. Here is a link to the playlist of that 30-Days of treating a glucose meter as a fuel gauge: kzbin.info/aero/PLW1Q_A0k7P6XfSxHbWAhtVXY2fUusqcEv - this requires NO SPECIAL DIET. Use whatever diet you are already on and learn from your glucose numbers about how your diet is affecting your body. It’s a great thing to understand what is going on inside oneself.

[@johndsmithkoipondgarden.878]

Keto for about 15 month , first few I only worried about carbs, lost weight like crazy, then I start a food dairy, still keto with a lot of low carb vegetables and nuts to make sure I was getting all of my nutritional needs, plus I was getting plenty of healthy fat and protein. I will be 75 in a couple of months, feel like 55, I will never go back to eating like I used to, my blood work is now perfect, and great BP too, A-1C 5.3. My carb count is under 75 carbs daily. If sleepy after you eat, your carb count was/is to high, not all that hard to figure. I’m never hungry.

[@suzanbak1]

Thank you for sharing your keys to success. I also celebrate the benefits of lower carb with healthy animal fats & protein lifestyle! 4 years & still feels new & exiting 🎉💕

[@johndsmithkoipondgarden.878]

@@suzanbak1 it absolutely works.

[@k9rescuer934]

That’s wonderful, thank you for sharing 😊

[@sunnyBLR]

Is it 75 total or net, after subtracting fiber?

[@johndsmithkoipondgarden.878]

@@sunnyBLR usually around 75-100 carbs total daily, around 50 after subtracting fiber.

[@ws7001]

Thank you both for revealing the secret! It’s very possible that this high protein diet will resolve many health issues. It likely improves metabolic issues, muscles ,skin, joints, bones and other organs. Hopefully someone with brilliant minds such as yourselves could review these findings and make another KZbin video! I was very interested in a recent paper indicating that those in a group eating 120 grams a of day protein had 1/12 the levels of beta amyloid per PET scans (and 1/8.5 those eating 84.4 grams a day). This aligns with recommendations from both of you (you mavericks). Your video deserves many more views.

[@martykendall5111]

Thank you! Getting adeuate protein without excess energy from fat and non-fibre carbs is really the foundation of good nutrition. Lots of things simply fall into place once you get that dialled in.

[@OIOnaut]

Marty, what do you know about the theory of FADH2 to NADH ratio pictured in Hyperlipid protons blog? This is the work of Petro Dobromylskyj. The bottom line is that this lipid intake driven switch controls the fat cell metabolism. A healthy fat cell is never sensitive to insulin in the presence of fat, but a low ratio can turn the switch when PUFA is detected. This becomes a big problem if starch ie glucose is also in the circulation at the same time. With saturated 16 and 18 carb single carbon bond fats ie. hard fats this does not occure and there will be substantial superoxide present. A such cell will signal resist all insulin by ROS activation in the mitochondria and do not store fat into these cells but will signal it to release it. In nature you would want the opposite to happen only in a torpor hibernation situation, where maximum fat storage is optimal. I believe T2Dm is human mammal prepairing to hibernate over the winter that never comes. We need bear trials where we give them species spesific dieds and keep on force feeding them over xmas and not ever letting them sleep more than 7h. Fructose and orexin must be controlled too or they will get hyper narcoleptic and just fall down dead tired 😉

[@martykendall5111]

@@OIOnaut I don't claim to be a biochem expert (there's not a lot of people who really understand all the moving parts, if any). I think fructose and PUFA are factors. I agree that we are 'eating for winter' - i.e. we are consuming a lot of fat+carb foods that were not available before modern food processing. but the biggest factors that have changed in our food system is the increase in MUFAs (and total fat) over the past century along with an increase in refined carbs over the past 50 years or so. PUFAs have increased significantly, but still only make up a small amount of the overall modern diet compared to SFA and MUFAs.

[@danielpincus221]

High PROPORTION protein diet. That’s the key.

[@martykendall5111]

@@danielpincus221 100%! it's not really MORE protein, but a higher proportion of energy from protein.

[@torbjorngustafsson9039]

Marty is king

[@martykendall5111]

LOL! how nice!

[@Damudean]

I like some of this, and your questions are great. But I have a problem with why we need the carbs?

[@JE-cy9ly]

For me,15%-20% carbs is more satiating per calorie than zero. With more vegetables and dairy than strict keto, I corrected nutrients that had been low. Story on DD: "How Janet succeeded with more protein and higher satiety"

[@chazwyman8951]

It seems to me it is less about the carbs in the food, but the types of food that happen to carry carbs. It has been said that eating cabbage burns more calories than is in the cabbage! But it is the indigestible carbs (fibre) a and the elements in cabbage that feed the gut. I get nearly all my carbs from lactose. Milk is a complete food, and I love cheese. I do not have some of the problems others have with diary. My view is that, as all humans are born lactose tolerant, if you keep up your daily milk intake you are not going to loose the ability to metabolise it.

[@martykendall5111]

good question. our analysis suggets that 10-20% non-fibre carbs aligns with a lower calorie intake. your body can make glucose from the protein in your diet, but it's a slower process. so if you're active, your body will crave a little more carbs to supply glucose. if you're diet contains zero carbs, you may end up eating more. non-starchy vege also contains more of the nutrients that are harder to find on meat and seafood alone (e.g. magnesium, potassium etc).

[@chazwyman8951]

@@martykendall5111 But fat as well as carbs is converted to blood sugar when the Triglycerides break away from the lipids, and obviously ketones are used for energy too. Some people thrive on zero carbs without cravings; carnivores. But for most ketovores eat some carbs along the way, So I do not buy the idea that you have to think about including a minimum, as long as you have given yourself time to be fat adapted, which is arguably a more natural human diet.

[@martykendall5111]

@@chazwyman8951 agreed. you can make all the glucose you require from protein and the glycerol backbone of the fat molecule via gluconeogenesis, it just some takes time. most people are not particularly active and have plenty of glucose floating around in their bloodstream, so lower carb tends to work really well. carnivore works great for many people because the protein they are getting is super satiating. just pointing out that across 125k days of data from 35k people (mostly on a lower carb diet), the lowest calorie intake aligns with 10-20% carbs (not zero).

[@DarthNoshitam]

Would be curious what he thinks about food timing relative to exercise

[@martykendall5111]

it makes sense to refuel after exercise. this is when our blood glucose drops, we're usually most hungry and prone to binge, so planning quality food in the hour or two is important rather than leaving it too long and heading for the junk. if you're going to do something longer than normal for you, then you fueling up more than an hour before hand is smart.

[@JE-cy9ly]

Thank you Dr Scher, for an insightful interview with Marty Kendall about his successful programs that work with many dietary patterns. I'm one of the post-menopausal women who had been eating low carb for a decade, but stalled above goal. With a more nutrient dense food list, aiming for 40% protein, I now easily maintain a 22 BMI. There are more details about the diet and timing I used in my success story on DietDoctor. Janet

[@AnneFallible]

Hi Brett, great interview. Marty's website is spelled wrong in your link. Optimising needs an "s" instead a "z".

[@martykendall5111]

thanks Anne. glad you enjoyed it. the Australian spelling can be confusing.

[@dietdoctor]

Fixed, thank you for pointing that out!

[@martykendall5111]

@@dietdoctor thanks. That was quick!

[@njsongwriter]

According to my dictionary it is spelled with a "z".

[@anjjincubus2913]

How complicated was that, at least there were no adverts.

[@finagill]

I think it is safe to say that I eat a high protein diet, 1g per pound of lean mass.

[@martykendall5111]

that's a solid target for most people!

[@Damudean]

Interesting, but what vegetables are we talking about?

[@JE-cy9ly]

Depends on your diet, but coming from low carb, I now eat more of any and all green vegetables and include small tubers..love carrots after a decade needlessly avoiding them. 🙀

[@chazwyman8951]

Avoid potatoes and rice, but cabbage, kale, carrots (do not over cook), tomatoes for their lycopene. Onions!!

[@JE-cy9ly]

Marty Kendall's programs at OptimisingNutrition provide food lists for about 30 different diets, Including vegetarian. This interview may attract low carb/keto/therapeutic keto diets listeners, but ON programs help you become more metabolically flexible, whether you are a body builder or diabetic. I now occasionally eat potatoes at dinner, but rice for me, raised my BG. There is a ton of "Free Stuff" on his blog, you could download the food list for your diet for more examples.

[@michaelwarnock5845]

Doing carnivore for 90 days. I've done this before without issues. I feel like I do better eating red meats and higher fat fish and chicken. To high protein or lower fat for me is like rabbit starvation and hormones take a hit. If you want to drop weight it makes sence in the short term to eat leaner meats but not always. I enjoy Marty's content and feel he's doing a great job helping people without a dogmatic label to the diet.

[@martykendall5111]

thanks so much Michael! ramping up protein is the quickest way to get lean, but it's not sustainable. I'm just the boring engineering trying to help people move sutainably in the direction they need to go so they can achieve the results they want to over the coming weeks and months. extreme diets get more attention, but most people just need to understand where they are now and which direction they need to move from there to achieve their goals.

[@michaelwarnock5845]

@@martykendall5111 I get it. I'm only doing carnivore because it helps with almost everything 🙃. Not sure if it's really extreme though. I'm just not a fan of most veggies and find plants should be seasonal at most. Unless you grow your own it's really not that healthy in the US unless you know your farmer and buy local so you know what they use. I don't run into to much trouble getting my nutrition as far as I can tell. What you do is similar to where I started in 2016 when I first got T2 diagnosis. Checking glucose before meals and monitoring the effects of the foods I ate. I love what you're doing and am a fan of your contributions.

[@martykendall5111]

Thanks man. Glad you’re thriving!!! My T1D wife is pretty much carnivore (with some wine). ;)

[@seriouslypagan6904]

This didn't turn out so well, sound problems!

[@martykendall5111]

Should be fixed now. There were no issues with the podcast, just the video.

[@fredsmit3481]

Dr. At the start 2:47 you mention that the keto diet includes high density fats. This is not correct. You are making the mistake that a lot of people make. The keto diet is not defined by the food (fats). The keto diet is defined by the state of ketosis regardless of the food. If a person is in ketosis, then they are on a keto diet. If a person is not in ketosis then they are not on a keto diet. It is that simple. A person can be in ketosis in many types of diet/exercise combinations. A person can be in ketosis without eating high density fats.

[@martykendall5111]

that's my point. keto means a lot of things to a lot of people, from 80% fat for a therapeutic keto diet (for alzheimers, dimentia, epilepsy etc) to 40% fat with fat coming from your body and less from your diet. also, people who are metabolically healthy tend to see lower ketones because they they have a higher muscle mass which uses then more quickly rather than having them build up in the blood. the understanding that you need X mmol/L blood ketones leads many people to keep adding dietary fat which is not great if you want to use stored body fat.

[@flytoboat]

He talked more about weight loss than health. I eat for optimum health, appropriate weight will follow.

[@martykendall5111]

they are defintely related - chicken vs egg.

[@jasminejones9937]

Weight loss IS a health benefit for the average Joe (unless you're anorexic! 🙄)

[@boxerfencer]

Didnt this already go up?

[@boxerfencer]

Oh yeah the guest's volume was really low

[@martykendall5111]

they fixed the audio and republished.

[@karenohanlon4183]

I cant be bothered with apps. We are apped to the max. I am overweight mostly due to living on processed foods. I am not sold on a looking at food as a mathematical endeavour. I am in the group that wants the easier answer. If you have to join a master class it sounds too much like work. So I am doing my best to avoid processed food. Maybe two meals. And letting my body work out what it needs nutrition wise.

[@martykendall5111]

I like looking at the numbers to see what works for most people most of the time. Quantifying your diet can be helpful for a short time if you are not making the progress you want. But the end goal is forming new habits around food that enable you to just listen to you appetite. Unforunately without a little guidance, it seems to be difficult for most people to just follow their appetite in our modern food environment.

[@martykendall5111]

@@mariad1151 whether or not you can trust your appetite depends on your food environment.

[@martykendall5111]

@@mariad1151 I really liked David Raubenheimer's comment in this interview to "shop with your brain, eat with your appetite". I think our bodies have an inate nutritional wisdom in a more natural food environment. if you don't surround yourself with hyperpalatable junk (that we'll always eat when available) we can actually trust our cravings for what our bodies need. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGjLoGqqp7-ZZ6M

[@kerrybyers257]

Can’t wait til you can apply AI to this nutrient gaming.

[@jackwardrop4994]

He wants to “dial down the fat”? That’s a no go.

[@martykendall5111]

only if you want to use the fat on your body. if you're lean and need to fuel a lot of activity, fat is a great source of fuel.

[@slowbaker]

What? I'm trying to figure out what the heck was being professed here. Got no useful info from this. What is he trying to say?

[@LoriTildenLeeke]

Nancy, I have been using Marty’s teaching about treating a glucose meter as my fuel gauge (also known as DataDriven Fasting) since 2018. It has worked beautifully for me. I was able to get off all of my menopausal weight gain and have maintained my weight in a healthy waist-to-height range for three year. I also was able to get off thyroid medication that I had been using since 1997. I eat all kinds of foods, not having to neglect any of the macros. When I am composing a meal for myself, I begin by prioritizing protein and nutrients, and then I decide if I want to add in either or both of the energy sources (fats & carbs). I want others to know how helpful it is to use Marty’s teaching, so I recorded day-by-day videos of my most recent 30-Day DataDriven Fasting Challenge. Here is a link to the playlist of that 30-Days of treating a glucose meter as a fuel gauge: kzbin.info/aero/PLW1Q_A0k7P6XfSxHbWAhtVXY2fUusqcEv - this requires NO SPECIAL DIET. Use whatever diet you are already on and learn from your glucose numbers about how your diet is affecting your body. It’s a great thing to understand what is going on inside oneself.

[@slowbaker]

@@LoriTildenLeeke thanks. I'll check your videos out. I started a carnivore diet on June 27th. I needed to lose weight. So far, 14 pounds down. Feeling strong. This talk gave me zero clue how to proceed otherwise. Will check out what you're doing.

[@slowbaker]

@@LoriTildenLeeke Thank you, Lori. I'll check out your videos.

[@juliastantic3033]

Its look like he didn't eat, hardly can hear him.

[@ZaheerMalik]

Pretty useless discussion. Not a typical dietdoc podcast