The Story of Kil'jaeden [Lore]

[@Mooclucking]

Kil'jaeden could give the Old Gods a run for their money when it comes to plotting.

[@bounchofbeaners]

yea but even one old god is still far more powerful than Kil'jaeden

[@mathi497]

The Burning Legion does not know about the old gods!

[@Cornelii_Scipiones]

Mili Molo It is foolish to belive that the Burning Legion is unaware of it. After all the Dreadlords have been here, on Azeroth for a quite long time. They should sense their presence or something. Nobbel forgot to add the fact that Kael switched sides after he was killed in Outland, I belive that played a crucial part in that.

[@JrClips27]

Mili Molo Sageras himself was the former champion of the titans..when they battled the Old Gods do you not think he would be there ?

[@Themannemannen]

In terms of cunning and scheming, definitely!

[@highvoltage988]

I love your lore videos even if I already know the story well already, as in this case. Your storytelling is phenomenal and your love for the tales of Warcraft really shows through. That in combination with the amazing art you find and in game clips and cutscenes makes each video unique and amazing.

[@User5973]

Daddy tell me a bedtime story...

[@ieatcheeseforbreakfast4132]

i love this story

[@MythicTrapskills]

Yessss daddy please

[@justinoxton6790]

Once upon a time in a land far far away, there lived a great story teller, his name was daddy..

[@bindair_dundat]

A few expansions later we will probably find out that Kil'Jaeden has legs. It has happened before...

[@_yndre]

Firelands ragnaros 2.0 I want this so bad

[@lordkiljaeden3887]

***** Not the only thing down there dancing around hitting everyone. Muhahahahaha

[@ulfgaar7724]

You were right lol

[@artellius7477]

Ofc he does, if you play wc3 you'll know it.

[@warriorsworld4638]

@@lordkiljaeden3887 Oh god damn it...

[@UltimateKeyboardHero]

So I started watching your videos around 2 days back. Man, this stuff is more addictive than playing WoW. I love lore! Keep up the awesome work! =)

[@TeeWhy0147]

Hope you're well, ten years later chief!

[@CallMeNoa]

The impression I got is that since Medivh's death, Sargeras's spirit has been floating around in the Nether and Kil'jaeden is the current leader of the Legion with Sargeras missing.

[@maksymilianziele28]

Aren't Kil'jaeden and Archimonde equals in the Burning Legion? Just Archimonde was a general in the Burning Legion and Kil'jaeden took care of bureaucracy. After Archimonde's defeat in Warcraft 3, now Kil'jaeden was an unspoken master of the Burning Legion.

[@Dezaruu]

​@@maksymilianziele28wdym by bureaucracy

[@maksymilianziele28]

@@Dezaruu Maybe bureaucracy is a bad word. Rather the rest of things Archimonde was not doing in his military invasions and annihilations, like enslaving others to join their ranks.

[@xxflatbabyxx]

15:05 "Soon,I will order the invasion to begin.But first...LEMME TAKE A SELFIE!"

[@kalliw3695]

Flatbaby I thought that Soon I will order the invasion to begin, But first.... LEMME TAKE A SELFIE du uddu du (Me: aww I wish that was what he would say)

[@larsveras4210]

Nobbel! I would like to thank you for all lore videos and videos about WoW in general. You've made the game more fun to play, now that I know more about the lore and the background-stories of the game. Thanks man =D

[@HodCohen135]

Thank you Nobbel, I was waiting for you to upload so I can watch this while i'm in my bed ^_^

[@InfexiousGaming]

Your videos are AWSOME man. Listen to all your lore videos. Would love you to make an arthas audio book to listen to at work

[@trikxty]

Once again Nobbel, you have aimed to please, aimed high, and scored. Great video Nobbel! I can't wait to see another one on the girl in the video and Archimonde. I really want to know her story though.

[@sharangcool]

who? Anveena? There are comics about her and kalecgos. Pretty interesting, try searching for sunwell related comics, i'm sure you'll come across it

[@trikxty]

I'd rather watch Nobble make a video about her since I don't follow the comics. :p Thanks though.

[@GonzalezEA21]

Leveling my fishing in Draenor and watching some Nobbel87! GJ dude keep it up!

[@MangoLeaf9103]

Once again the Lorewalker has given a good story

[@MegaChickenfish]

This really makes the appreciate the ties between Kil'jaeden and Velen that we saw in the Tomb of Sargeras and to a lesser extent in the tie-in content of the assault on the Exodar during the light-bound object questline.

[@mirakil7636]

Hey Nobbel, could you one day make a lore vid on the Nerubians? That'd be great.

[@Adirtan]

I agree

[@asdfasdfasdfasdf3229]

If I'm not mistaken I think he may have pseudo covered them. I remember a video he did covering Anu'barak's betrayal.

[@krasyanev7926]

booooooooooooooring

[@DiadrinArcane]

Please, more lore vids! I love listening to you, while playing WoW! You make the game even better! ^^

[@DivineAtheistWannabe]

So basically the Lich King was an orc.... So the undead scourge was basically led by an orc 🤔🤔🤔

[@maniek2207]

And now soul of this orc open a rift to Shadowlands.

[@demonsnight395]

@@maniek2207 nerzhul is long gone by that time

[@littleshopofeldritchhorror6224]

demons night how can you be so sure? Physically he’s not there but his spirit possibly is in some capacity

[@demonsnight395]

@@littleshopofeldritchhorror6224 arthas killed him during his fight for control over the Helm I believe. Nerzhul is dead

[@jusquanorthwind1016]

demons night It’s probably that his soul merged with arthas’ and when arthas died in ICC, Ner’zhul died too.

[@jmclark841]

Azeroth historian extraordinaire. Thanks for reminding me how much I adore this universe. Backstory is everything.

[@lianosk]

Archimode's selfie in the end

[@DrCornelius]

he was like "so, how do I want to destroy Dalaran... oh! I know! magical runic sandcastles!!"

[@lianosk]

Lol..:D

[@carlpetersen3147]

Ciro Kerman that was arcamode

[@WarLord11111111]

Amazing, I didn't know how much of Kil'jaeden there was in WoW.

[@MegaChickenfish]

18:57 "...I'll kill that hippie druid and Tyrande will finally love you." Illidan: Deal. 20:15 "Northrend was merely a setback!"

[@StephenTube_Gaming]

Great job. Although I didn't look forward to a second fight against KJ I do look forward to seeing how the story of Draenor unfolds first-hand and hopefully seeing/helping Lothar and Khadgar battle Medivh in Kara.

[@PixelatedTwix]

I think I've watched just about all your WoW lore videos in the past two days. I've obviously enjoyed them! I've been playing the game since BC and never really knew/understood the entire story - basically going from quest to quest and not fully paying attention to the story. It's pretty clear now that I've missed ALOT! Makes me want to go back and level another toon just so I can actually READ the quests. Thumbs up and new subbie!

[@chillytoes1]

great job! i love the entire story and how intertwined it is with all the other stories of azeroth

[@boomchickn]

Could you do a video on troll lore? To clarify more about there whole gods/ loa and about some of the more significants in the different tribes.

[@Jerrodw0ng]

Totally agree with this :)

[@AlrightThere]

That would be pretty interesting :)

[@krasyanev7926]

boooooooooring

[@concraft9293]

your English is great man, the fact you can site all this information so coherently is pretty amazing.

[@EnthrallingBass140]

I have been checking your channel every day for a new video. Never stop!! :D

[@Yondaime8X]

He only uploads on certain days.

[@carlpetersen3147]

lore vids come up sunday night so yea

[@Pr1est0fDoom]

Great work! Thanks for putting together all this information!

[@ericsigil]

I like how Kel is forced to wander the frozen wastes...of Winterspring lol

[@SonyCloe]

Amazing video,this really pleased me.The effort you put into this video is clearly there and it has payed off.Thank you :)

[@stormstrider1990]

I'm certain the final battle against Kil'jaeden will take place on Argus. It will probably be the most epic boss fight since the Fall of the Lich King. We will receive aid from Velen, the Naaru, Anduin (if Velen's prophecy is true) and possibly Illidan, since Metzen wants to bring him back in a redemption story.

[@gbgent5802]

gimme the lottery numbers

[@Gorvar100]

I like to see Ner'Zhul as Frankenstein's monster of sorts from Kil'Jaeden. The double edged knife can only be as sharp as you make it.

[@VortalexTheDruid]

8:59 How could they have been hiding in Zangarmarsh if during the time the entire zone was just a fungasland under the ocean? Blizzard has made a mistake.

[@Glitzbound]

***** Blizzard isn't perfect

[@Zorc7]

otherwise do not forget ogres and Gruul's children who possess most of these areas, so I think they are hidden and that it was difficult for legion's officers de find venel because the ogres of gruul...

[@Idoser96delete]

i may be wrong but their base in zangarmarsh is not on the ground, i guess they built it on the water

[@djvesko]

I just love this older history of pre-WoW, vanilla & TBC!

[@lordkiljaeden3887]

HELL YEA! sargeras bless you this day! Thank you Nobbel! The Legion cries victory this day!

[@kazzaksupreme5807]

Nice!

[@mastersargeras8767]

Yes i give him my blessing

[@Ang3lUki]

haha ur ded

[@preds43]

@@mastersargeras8767 AND YOU STAY IN THAT FUCKING CHAIR! If you even think about moving, Argus won’t be the only Titan that gets fucking jumped!

[@Mazzmaker69]

Nobbel, just give us the Arthas/Lich King lore video, you know you want to.

[@Dragonfu666]

That'd be badass! If it wasn't an hour and a half though, it wouldn't be redeeming enough of a story for such a badass.

[@flufychickens]

just play warcraft 3 campaign

[@Dragonfu666]

Warcraft 3 campaign is not enough. You need to read a ton more to get Arthas's full story. A And then play WoW ontop of all that.

[@63Limar]

flufychickens I heared in some books there was a story about what could happend if Arthas decided not to follow Mal'Ganis.

[@lukethebaron5408]

So Ner'Zhul is kind of a good guy in the original timeline while he's evil in wod?

[@FishsMusicChannel]

No, Ner'zhul was never a "good guy". Like Grommash and Garrosh, he is not aligned with the Burning Legion and doesn't want orcs to serve them. He does, however, want to conquer other worlds. You'll notice that he had no problem genociding the Draenei just because an "ancestor" told him to. He and Teron Gorefiend also were totally ready to go invade other planets during WCII. Basically, he's not allied with the demons, he's just an asshole.

[@jeep3r]

Nerzul always had second thoughts about the fight against the draenis, that's what drove him to beg the attention of the ancestors, when the spirit of his former wife would appear and told him that he's the betrayer of his race, the destroyer, etc etc... when he went back to kil'jaden to demand answers, Gul'dan would have already betrayed him, Kil'jaden first offered Ner'zul to sell the orcs to the Burning Legion and since he rejected, as nerzul rejected the demon offered it to Gul'dan whom accepted without second thoughts and Nerzul was leashed to Kil'jaden. Ner'zul cried when the orcs were corrupted by the blood of Manoroth, and only had ambitions of conquering other worlds after the orcs were defeated by the humans and Ner'zul wanted to save his race.

[@MrFredstt]

+jeep3r Poor Ner'Zul. He was tricked and toyed with

[@vietnam2013]

i spent 11 years playing on Nerzhul server thinking hes a good guy. Basically hes started all the shit.

[@ZanathKariashi]

@@vietnam2013 he was a well meaning, but flawed guy. Alt Ner'zhul was in an even worse position than Our Ner'zhul was, since his manipulation came slowly and innocently enough with Kil'jaeden taking his time to butter him up (also in Orc culture the words of the Ancestors are basically like speaking to God himself and are taken very seriously whenever a message is given), while Alt Ner'zhul was basically told, "Make your clan useful to us, OR DIE" and he scrambled looking for some way to save his people, but drawing on the Dark Star and the void eventually corrupted him. Our Ner'zhul was only pushed as far as Alt Ner'zhul after years of watching his people waste away on a dying world, and constant chiding from Gorefiend that eventually caused him to embrace Dark Shamanism due to his powerlessness from the elements still refusing to help him even decades later, which stripped the last remaining bit of morality from him. Since until that moment, he was still holding out a desperate hope that he might be able to earn forgiveness from the spirits if he could save their people.

[@PrimxInxTeal]

Epic video, as usual! They get better and better, I swear.

[@darcraven01]

sounds like in Legion we'll see either Kil'jaeden or Sargeras or both..

[@budmaam]

Or all of them. Wouldn't be surprised.

[@toasterrobot8566]

And i'm sitting here with a poker face, reading this comment, without wow subscription, without having any money to buy one, wishing for a legal private server that my shitty windows XP computer could handle. Listening to how awesome the final Burning legion battle could be

[@resention8230]

+darcraven01 I don't think we'll see Sargeras. If we do, it will be a teaser. There are still some stories left to tell, and if we take out Sargeras, the story basically ends. I do think Kil'jaeden will show up, tho.

[@darcraven01]

Resention well see, even if we see (and fight) sargeras, that doesnt mean we'll kill him. we could push him back and hold him off without killing him, and that'd let him return at a later date (stronger and more pissed off)... though what i was originally thinking was the avatar of sargeras (which has been on azeroth once already).. sry i forgot clarify that in the other post

[@VerbotenDonkey]

+Resention I believe we'd have to kill Sargeras in his own realm in order to actually kill him. And I doubt we'd get to do that lol.

[@prestonkeebler4258]

First, great job Nobbell. I'd like to throw some crazy out there. I like to consider WoD more like dimensional travel with a touch of time travel thrown in. If that's the case, that would mean that there's a second Azeroth that could be involved. If Gul'dan is "on the phone" with Kil'jaeden, then that would insinuate that Medivh is doing his part on the alternate Azeroth. I think these sort of circumstances could really open the game to some seriously powerful characters to use. What do you think? Maybe we'll see Medivh as a still corrupted villain? Maybe the alternate Arthas turns out to be a great hero as Ner'zul doesn't go down the same path leading to the Scourge. Just a few thoughts. Thanks for the great videos, keep it up!

[@azgalorsupremeannihilan4818]

we bow to you Kil'jaeden

[@alexion56]

nice vid as always nobble! keep on with the good work. greetings from peru

[@kazzaksupreme5807]

Glory to Kil'jaeden!

[@azzinothflame4530]

kneel to the master!

[@hevenlytemplar]

Great video as always nobbel, very accurate! I would really love to see a "Scarlet Crusade" lore video as I've always found their lore kinda confusing. Thanks again and keep up the good work :D

[@elliew6765]

Warcraft 3 is so terrible, I love it so much "COME THEN! YOU'LL FINE WE'RE EVENLY MATCHED." *takes 3 swings* "We could go on fighting like this _forever_" Hasn't even gone through 3 GCD's ;3

[@bonesh0ckerz]

+Ellie Williams Sense.

[@lukethebaron5408]

It's a good game though

[@razvanagafitei502]

awesome video, can't wait for the next one

[@AFaithMove]

When the beings named demons aren’t really “demons” ... when the big red horned guy isn’t really the “devil” ... when the light literally tries to force itself on another living creature despite “free will” ... hmm ...

[@Gaby000999]

Hello Nobbel!! I'm a big fan of your vids and a big fan of yours!!!! I was just wondering if you had a Lore of the Hour of Twilight and the Twilight Hammer. Cheers! ;)

[@medeltidsdykaren]

All your videos Nobble makes me wanna start playing again.... But since all my friends and 95% of my guild has stopped and will prob not come back it would be lonly and boring.... Like a compleat restart. And I dont think I have the stamina to grind/farm my beloved Quel Serra and Quel Delar back in my hands... *cry*

[@MinifigureManiacs]

I was literally just thinking the same thing then scrolled down and saw your comment ha!

[@medeltidsdykaren]

I think thats blizzards big problem now. The old playerbase are prob tired of playing after 7 years straight. And new players have too catch up so fast that they miss 2/3 of the game. Not manny now wanna go do old stuff unless its for farming transmogs and if you make misstakes in groups there is atleast one guy who will pick on you and abuse your playstyle... Or they kick you faster then you can say Kil'Jaeden! Its so sad warcraft have come to this point.... Perhaps its to big now...

[@Rellana1]

I'd like to come back to experience the new expansion as I didn't like the entire Pandaren expansion at all,but grinding up a new character as I deleted my account that's too much work for my liking.

[@medeltidsdykaren]

Well, they will give you a lvl 90 boost....

[@Rellana1]

Still the reason I left was I got tired of the grinding quests as they offered no variety that I could see at the time. Unless that's changed I can't see myself enjoying the game as a whole. Same thing with the dungeons,they offered no variety after a certain point.

[@Jpwnage216]

Thanks this really helped me to understand the WOD plotline.

[@Warxoth]

Knowing all of this really puts Arthas like just another stubborn child, don't know why everyone wet their panties over him.

[@Kravenrogue]

You are not From the time of Warcraft 3 Right?

[@Ijjigunzhack]

This story telling... So good, I can't stop watching

[@KomBackHordz]

0:30 if a Succubus was that beautyful I wouldn't mind demons.

[@EmilKlingberg]

well they devour your soul to keep them selves attractive and powerful

[@KomBackHordz]

***** oh like the nyhms and sirens/mermaids :P

[@bindair_dundat]

And what is a soul in exchange for the night of your life?

[@jaimemolina7219]

***** like woman!

[@KomBackHordz]

Jaime Molina fuckin brilliant xD

[@MrNileX]

Love it Nobbel, cannot wait for Archimonde!

[@Maharlikathevagabond]

I died at at the caption 15:06 "Paul cream Desserts"

[@TonyAirtony]

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain, Sargeras.

[@sirjj3123]

How does a demonlord of a previous planet think that he can overcome a previous Titan?

[@MegaChickenfish]

This reminds me how awesome Ner'zhul's story was and how I'm sad we never really got a continuation of his subtle machinations as the Lich King against the Burning Legion. _Then again_ , what if Arthas's death freed Ner'zhul as well? This is just reminding me how I need to watch your vids on the death knight storyline, as I've heard rumors that you meet the new lich king during it.

[@christianlaursen3234]

Hey dude Can you ples tel about the taurens history ??????

[@N1tr0p0ll]

Love that you take the time to make these videos, look forward to them every week! Keep it up :D

[@liviuirimia0904]

ok, titans are the shappers of worlds in the wow universe, but who are the first masters of darkness? who created the demon present in the universe (in the time of the titans, the ones that sargeras was fighting)

[@preds43]

We basically got our answer. Demons are just manifestations of Fel energy, and are also malformed beings of Light and Shadow. We also know that the Dreadlords were apparently not native to the Nether at all, and seemed to have originated in Revendreth instead. And, prior to Sargeras’ corruption, they assumed the top positions over the Nether, as the force of Disorder never really...had a god nor a pantheon...since it’s disorder, etc. The apparent “masters of shadow” are the Void Lords, and we’re also going to hear more about the First Ones, which are heavily implied to have made the entire Warcraft Cosmos, and not just the Shadowlands.

[@MrKhulaid]

Love your videos! Thank you for taking the time putting these videos together. Great job

[@flumbaisk]

Shattrath, not Shathra.

[@douglasnysether7963]

Nicely done once again. And you actually managed to indirectly tell a story I had asked about. The origin of warlocks. I would however like to know how the alliance came to wield their power :)

[@m8jin12]

i need my WarCraft 4 , blizzard cant u fit in wc4 inbetween the lore or something , if wc4 is half the game wc3 was it will be best the game in 2010-2019 , WarCraft 3 is the Greatest PC game to Grace us , how can a game be so good that it gives birth to other games like (Dota, LoL ,Tower Defense, Footman etc ) , At its peak they were 11 million + people playing WC3 dota alone , just one mini-game within the game , and millions other playing Ladder, other Customs games.

[@ArgentumEmperio]

One problem tho'... Why is Warcraft 3 such a great game? The mechanics were solid by its time and models really, really good and well balanced across all the races (as far as I'm aware)... but people praise WC3 for two things in particular: the expanding on the already established Warcraft universe from the two previous games with their expansions; and the custom games. The Warcraft universe is still expanding but is doing so in World of Warcraft (believe it or not... World of Warcraft takes place in the Warcraft-universe... stunning, huh?) and every ounce of lore we got from WC3 has been expanded into the cleansing of corrupt furbolgs, the fall of Netharion, the fall of Illidan, the fall of the Lich King, the coronation of a new Lich King, the fall of Deathwing, the dragon aspects losing their power... an entire new continent appearing from the mists and proof of there being random gigantic seaturtles swimming around in the oceans! To create 'Warcraft 4' now would be dumb... they already got Starcraft for RTS fans and for those that loved Warcraft exists the lore of Warcraft in World of Warcraft... and the custom games becoming their own games as well as the free-version of the arcade for SC. To create Warcraft 4 now makes no sense unless you want Starcraft but with a fantasy setting...

[@bindair_dundat]

They can't while wow is running. If they base it on wow events it will be boring and spoiled. If they base it between wow events it will be irrelevant. If they base it after wow events then wow will be spoiled. If they disregard wow and base the story on a different reality then wow will be irrelevant. There is no good choice.

[@bach0r]

I would love to see redone WC 1,2,3 with on new SC2/Heroes of the Storm engine with bonus missions or maybe even bonus campaigns/expansions

[@ArgentumEmperio]

bachorek potworek So basically 'SC2 but in a fantasy setting' ... just like I replied before

[@m8jin12]

***** u made a good point early , and the way wow is going it has a good 6-7 years left in its lifetime , just have to wait

[@Aj9Livess]

You have the greatest voice for narration. I could listen to it for hours B)

[@CynicalGamingBlogTerry309]

I hope WOW doesn't make anymore expansions, i don't want to see them kill off Kil'jaeden because it is stupid to even believe mere mortals could kill someone with that amount of power. Archimonde was an exception, the night elves had to sacrifice their immortality to kill him, but how would they possibly defeat Kil'jaeden? He has a portion of Sargeras' power and he's even more talented than Archimonde, plus he is no fool. I'm just sick of Paladin X sending in a raid group to face ridiculously powerful Villain Y, Warcraft had so much potential after Warcraft 3 and Blizzard threw it all away by making characters godlike.

[@paullambert3836]

without the expansions wow'd be dead already, blizzard are stupid? they made a online game not only survived and but also been #1 mmorpg for 10 years stories always serve gameplay, gameplay always serve sales, im tired of explaining this, just enjoy what you are giving, if you dont change to another game, they survive on how many new players they attract, old players will leave eventually, whether they release expansions or not

[@CynicalGamingBlogTerry309]

monotonous thanks for the pointless and needless lecture, we're all well aware how the industry works. Point is, i hate what WOW did to the lore. I stopped playing the warcraft series ages ago for this reason. That doesn't stop me from being vocal about it though.

[@paullambert3836]

brainjuice654 point is, they dont care about what you hate or think in general, they will continue to kill kil'kaeden or whoever you like as long as people buy it. and point is, i dont care you or whoever you call "we" understand or not, which apparently you didnt until i lectured you

[@CynicalGamingBlogTerry309]

monotonous you don't think i know that? i'm being vocal about it, doesn't mean it's gonna happen. Then you keep lecturing me about pointless crap that i already know. I am well aware as to why wow still exists.

[@glardian966]

The story of the underdog miraculously beating the obnoxiously overpowered villain never gets old to some.

[@Senythril]

Man i love these videos i love learning the lore.

[@Monoriss]

Question for Nobbel87. Do you think it is possible for the WarCraft movie that we expect to go out in 2016 to Put all this story in a 3 hour scenario ? My personal opinion, HELL NO ! Yet it will be cool to see :D

[@Nobbel87]

Haha would be a challenge! I think the movie is going to focus on orc/alliance so we might see this background, but not in huge detail.

[@bindair_dundat]

That movie is never coming out. Especially if wow kills itself before 2016 with ideas like WoD.

[@TheJmaillard1]

Wlarius please don't write anything anymore u make my eyes bleed.

[@nubfail]

Wlarius I supposed you thought BC was going to kill wow, along with age of conan, rift, swotor, terra, etc...

[@bindair_dundat]

Xarion No, that is why I said "wow kills itself". Try to read more carefully before replying.

[@cuthian18]

Love the warcraft lore and your videos are perfect :) thank you :)

[@DarkTider]

To clarify something you were confused about, namely the "power struggle" within the burning legion: Sargearas is currently dead. After he was slain by Aegwynn and possessed medivh, he was subsequentely killed by Lothar and friends, ending Sargearas for the time being, something which a lot of players completely fail to understand. Sargearas may exsist in spiritual form, but a bit like sauron between the two wars, he is unable to affect the physical world and is effectively GONE, DEAD, AND BURIED. Kil'jaeden is currently the leader of the burning legion, filling out the vacuum left by Sargearas' demise, hence his statement at the end of sunwell plateau, insinuating that while he may be the de-facto leader of the burning legion at the moment, that position is apparently challenged by certain members of the burning legion and therefore he seems to be trying to consolidate his position and remove all doubt. Hope this clarified things a bit for you :)

[@Caedus696]

Except that this is all speculation, because no one on Azeroth has seen the true Sargeras, the Avatar was hinted to just be a piece of Sargeras' soul not his whole being. For all we know he could still be very active, it is not like Kil'jaeden the master manipulator is gonna share his masters plans with us. You could be right, but I think he is just kinda out of it right now. Gul'dan was knocked out for days when he simply tried to peak into Medivh/Sarg's mind at the time of his death, so imagine how much longer that would effect the rest of Sargeras if a piece of himself was dragged into death.

[@chrisarbour]

False Sargeras isn't dead his Avatar was the one that fought Aegwynn not the literal form of Sargeras. Lore wise his physical form has yet to be killed. So you're way off. If Aegwynn fought the actual sargeras she wouldn't had stood a chance. The strength of 100 dragons is merely a fraction of his power he can only be wounded by immortal or legendary weapons. He's the god of death. No way in hell a single mage can kill him.

[@Caedus696]

chrisarbour Translation, welfare legendary weapons at the end of the final expac :P

[@chrisarbour]

Nicholas Cannaday Hopefully not i don't want to fight sargeras there are some things in the warcraft universe we can't compete with and i don't want them to come up with a way for us either. I'll quit if it comes to that.

[@Caedus696]

chrisarbour I wouldn't go that far. For one Brox was able to harm Sargeras so that is evidence enough that while he is a "god" he is capable of being harmed, and two we have already fought C'thun and Yog Saron back into torpor according to the lore it took 100 titans just to fight down one Old God into the state we have them at now.

[@MegaChickenfish]

21:40 Putting it together, I'm betting Kael'thas invisibly decided Illidan had lost his mind about the time when Kil'jaeden showed up to the three of them personally. Like "you expect us to stand against THAT?! Hell no!" and, much like the leader of the nightborne, decided he was better off allying with the Legion and having his people survive.

[@Nemenon]

I just thought of something. What if since Kil'Jeaden is in a power struggle against Sargeras he tries to actually take him on himself, except he only weakens Sargeras and is nearly killed by him. Kil'Jeaden manages to escape after dealing a blow to Sargeras that stunned him (similar to what Broxigar did), but he is greatly wounded as well so he retreats to somewhere safe. After seeing him in his weakened state one of his followers could turn against him, feeling he is no longer fit to command since he had hardly any power left after his sparring with Sargeras. He could perhaps create a portal from our world to his so we can flow through it and finish the weakened Kil'Jeaden, and his defeat/death will lead us to where we could find the wounded Sargeras. And with the lost titan on our side (the guy the Thunder King talks about), we could take the fight to Sargeras at his home world. Perhaps this is when Illidan returns and joins us, and afterwards disappears forever, or gets killed during the fight. We wouldn't be able to finish off Sargeras but we would basically ruin him, he would have such little power and he would have to retreat to some remote planet where he couldn't be reached. Or maybe one of the other Titans shows up and metes out justice. Definitely something fun to think about.

[@Mazzmaker69]

I so don't want the Titans showing up, atleast not as some form of heroes. I've always seen the Titans as a group of dictatorial overlords who don't give a damn about their creations as long as order is upheld. I wanna see an order vs chaos fight where both sides are out to crush everyone on Azeroth.

[@Nemenon]

Mazzmaker69 Sargeras is a Titan, and he betrayed them. I'm pretty sure the Pantheon is quite pissed about that because he is undoing all of their work. They worked very hard to keep order in the universe and Sargeras is the only thing in their way of that now. Why wouldn't they intervene? This story isn't just about Azeroth and us, its a whole universe packed full of content.

[@War3pl]

Okay, so lets start from beginning. Kil'Jaden is like a feather to Sargeras (when he had body, etc), he couldn't cope against him, even think about it. He tool over Burning Legion ONLY because Sargeras is lost in Twisting Nether without body. It wasn't any sort of power struggle, tho Kil'Jaden might have wanted to take over whole Burning Legion but standing against Sargeras is more stupid than suicide. There is no "home world" of Sargeras to be known, simply because he was/is one of Titans. They travel through space, make world, shape them and creatures on them, but not have "home", so we cant bring fight to this place. It was Ra-Den who said about "final titan", not Lei Shen (thunder king). Even if prophecy of Velen is true, keep in mind what Naaru and even Morgraine (Ashbringer) said - Can there be Light without Darkness? How do You think killing Titan is even possible? Every tryed to kill Elune? They are WAY above her acording to lore, and she is said to be goddes. Wounding, maybe improsoning, but not killing. I dont think even titans can kill other titan. After all, they had battle between them (Sargeras vs Aggramar, when he shattered his titan sword into 2 pieces and vields now only one of them) both were standing, tho condition is unknown.

[@Nemenon]

Krzysztof Winiarczyk You don't understand, the power struggle is that Kil'Jaedens wants to command the burning legion, as stated in this video. Right now Sargeras isn't that strong because of everything that has happened to him, but Kil'Jaeden is probably at full power by now (or close to it), which means he could probably deal a bit of damage to him if it came down to it. I'm sure Sargeras isn't too happy with the idea of Kil'Jaeden trying to take over as the master of the burning legion. And if a simple orc can strike a blow against a Titan, then what is stopping a demon lord? The Naruu aren't as powerful as we think, just like at Mu'ru (or however its spelled), he was corrupted and then destroyed by mere mortals. If they had any real power don't you think they would have helped Velen defeat Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde in the first place to save his people? Just look at the Old Gods, they are kind of like the evil counterpart to the Titan, even the Titans struggle against them and we as mortals were able to finish them off when they were in their weakened state. There will always be darkness due to the Old Gods, there is much more evil out there than just Sargeras, he is probably nothing compared to the evil of the Old Gods. Currently they have been pushed back quite well and aren't an imminent threat at the moment, but they were defeated. C'Thun, Yogg'Sargon, N'zoth, and probably even more that I don't know about. Theres a place in WoW that you can go to (I think its desolace) where lies the skeletons of 2 giant monster-like creatures, and the wiki says they could possibly be Old Gods but nobody knows for sure yet. Nothing is unkillable, everything has a weakness and everything can die. And I'm sure even Titans can die.

[@War3pl]

Nemenon The power struggle Sargeras Kil'Jaden might be happening right now, thats point i agree on, but You recall Brox as orc capable of wounding evil Titan. Do You remember why he was able to? Because he wielded axe created with very power of Azeroth itself, even if tiny bit. As War of the Anciets states it was nothing more than insect bite. At this moment Sargeras dont have body to get wounded so this gets out of theorycraft (till he recovers). As with Naaru - Mu'ru was not corupted, he was drained of light, by creatures attuned to very nature of magic. There is similar Naaru (D'ore i think) who went through similar process as his life cycle, but was not drained but wounded and became "black hole" for spirits, and void alike. But he recovered at least in some portion (seen in Auchenai Crypts). With Mu'ru's case keep in mind that Blood Elves are very potent magic users, especialy arcane arts which are close to "core" of magic. Also, You seem to forget that Light is not to be used to attack, even against forces of darkens. It allows to be used to PROTECT, not attack directly. Naaru are beengs of light but aren't made of Light (capital intended). Have You seen Naaru attacking anybody without intend to protect ? Even righteous fury of Paladins is caused by will to protect, as Light may abbadon its user as well as come uncalled. About old gods. One is known to be trully dead, BUT he still have his avatar (Darkshore questline). So I belive its body is dead but his ... essence is still alive somewhere. Just as C'thun who was to be resurected before Cataclysm by Cho'Gal. We were able to kill body, not the whole Old God. I never said that Titans or Old Gods are trully immortal, but its unheard of that any of them died for good. Even Cenarius got brough back amont with some Anciets after all. Desolace skeletons are probably from avatars of old gods or their servant in my opinion, not actual old ones.

[@Ombladoonn]

This series are awesome, keep up the good work.

[@Kyyp3r]

Two quick questions: first, if Kil'jaeden shares the same origin with the dranei, why is he like 30m taller? The second, when the new guy put on the lich king's crown, did he fuse with the lich king and arthas or just the lich king?

[@ThallanarRabidtooth]

First question - Kil'jaedan was infused with demonic power, it's easy to assume he just grew larger, and stronger because of it. Second question - It is speculated that Ner'zhul infused with Arthas when Arthas put the Crown of Domination on. When Arthas was defeated, we assumed it also killed what remained of Ner'zhul, in doing so, Bolvar Fordragon, the New Lich King, is not corrupted and acts on his own will. The new Lich King is meant to keep the Scourge in check, so that they don't go running around in chaos and destroy Azeroth. It's still pretty difficult to imagine a Lich King that isn't a villain, but Bolvar is that person, he died a good man, and is still a good man despite being the leader of the Scourge.

[@sudowoodo9579]

Thallanar Rabidtooth i doubt kil'jaden (i think he did it) would make the lich king die after 1 person.

[@goran77ish]

Every boss in WoW is lot larger then it should be. That is for us to think that is the boss. Example, Arthas (Lich king), or if you want just normal guy Garrosh. They are huge and should be same size as normal human/orc. That is for game mechanic to, I guess.

[@Kyyp3r]

goran77ish I'm not sure, Kil'jaeden was bigass even in warcraft 3, while Ilidan or Arthas had a more normal size

[@goran77ish]

Kyyp3r That is true. Archimond to, May be becuse they have been empowered by fallend titan so they may be sized as titans by doing so.

[@FaeFemboi]

Just realized that Sargeras being corrupted through fighting the fel demons is very similar in structure to the Dungeons and Dragons cosmology where Zariel and her zealous warrior angel horde were sent to fight the Demons (chaotic evil: just want to eat all souls and destroy everything), and become corrupted by being so close to the source of evil, becoming the very first devils (Lawful evil: Corrupting to gain power but ultimately following all the rules). Really love this kind of trope, honestly.

[@JimJohnson-st3nv]

He wasn't corrupted by fighting them. He saw demons he had already killed before returning because demons can only die in the nether. So he saw it was a losing fight. And then there's the retcon of seeing old gods corrupting a world soul so wanted to cleanse the entire cosmos and used the demons he'd imprisoned instead if killing after learning they just respawn to make this happen.

[@firetarrasque4667]

So... Sargeras turned evil because evil exists.*WOW.*

[@MrChillco]

What a great story. i did not know that this story was this big and have a big roll in the lore. I think you did a fine job telling it #Nobbel87 . can't wait for the archimonde story next monday. ^_^

[@thomasdr08]

I need an actual animated movie of the corruption of sargeras and the creation of the burning legion. All of this stuff would make one incredible miniseries... And probably would sell more subscriptions!

[@raulgoncalves4264]

I just can´t put in words how much I love this channel!!

[@BenjayTay]

Thanks for the great work. I really enjoy the videos. Could you make annotations in the videos so I couldnt know when the stuff happens? (like in which game?) That would help me get things less confused.

[@christhomas6571]

Hey nobbel :D just wanted to say thanks so much for your vids they are very cool and interesting was wondering if you could do a video on illadan *sorry for miss spelling* and maybe even his brother? again thanks for the vids nobbel keep em coming!

[@Deal101]

I really love your lore telling noble keep it up :)

[@wediditchat]

I love these videos, they are really well done!

[@TheSnikSkyter101]

ahh right as i get into bed a new nobbel video is released.... awesome

[@tompafriman7600]

hey man i would love to see an video on all the windrunners, adn i know you have made one on alleria but i like to see the other aswell :D keep up good work

[@Splatlack]

Hey Nobbel i actually wen't down to Deadwind Pass and then one of my friends told me about the old Karazhan Crypts i seached for it and it intrested me alot could be awsome if you could do a video about it keep up the good work :)

[@Be_Gee]

about time we get a nice lore for a while

[@tsmith93]

Love your videos, how you tell the story and most of all i adore the way you say "Hello everyone!!" xD

[@Zukab-o7p]

VIDEO ABOUT AHN'KAHET and the Nerubians! Its a thing bothering me for a long time about Ny'alotha and The Old Kingdom... Ny'alotha is a city of Old under the deeps... but Ahn'Kahet is the Kingdom of Nerubians worshipping old gods... Yogg Saron was in Ulduar and he enslaved the Iron Dwarves. But if the Nerubians would have worshipped Yogg Saron, wouldnt he have summoned the Nerubians to Ulduar ? So my suspicions goes that in Ahn'Kahet is either something more... or just more bugs... Facinating! And love your vids Nobbel :) Sterkte!

[@Darkness191]

when kil'jaeden was summoned threw the sunwell, there is a good chance that even that was not enough magical power to fully summon him and bring his full power threw. after all he does not completly go threw. It is possible that we will fight Kil'jaeden and/or Archimonde in the next expansion at full power

[@1upGAMERX]

I'm sure we will see Kil'jaeden again in Legion. And I have a feeling that the Lich King will be reawakened one day

[@Pr0xRESOLUTE]

your lore videos are so good

[@Alijamaru]

Hell yeah, I've been waiting for this video/story, let's go.

[@epuranus]

Nobbel, i have to ask and please you, can you please do a video lore about Dath'Remar Sunstrider? Anyway, very good job with those videos, i really appreciate what you do, keep doing it.

[@Milk0matic]

so awesome! i'm eagerly waiting for next video!

[@Tr0y0verP0werzU]

By far the best lore video yet.

[@bexa9011]

Look at the panda face on illidans warglavies. lol

[@MrJustinArt]

If (or rather _when_ considering it's a pretty big part of the history of Warcraft) you do lore on Arthas be sure to include how he *_barely_* won in the duel against Illidan.

[@Dougiebfresh12100]

Hey Nobbel, your lore videos are great. Could you do one on the Mograine family next?