The STRANGEST BOWL SCENARIO in College Football HISTORY | 1990 Baylor

[@TheManFromWaco]

You really need to do a story on the 2012 Independence Bowl, which involved the game trying to pressure Louisiana Tech (WAC) into making an early decision to secure an in-state rivalry game with Louisiana-Monroe (Sun Belt). Louisiana Tech held out for an at-large spot in the much more prestigious Liberty Bowl, lost the spot when OK State took a completely unexpected loss at Iowa State, and sat out Bowl Season despite going 9-3 since the Indy Bowl went ahead and signed the Ohio Bobcats.

[@marquan1976]

Everyone is waiting on it. We need a video on that story.

[@CTubeMan]

I don’t think he needs to do the video now since you told the whole story.

[@marcus813]

ULM and Louisiana Tech were supposed to play each other in Shreveport, La. in 2020, but rona concerns with ULM's squad caused that game to be cancelled. I do remember Louisiana Tech declining the Independence Bowl and not getting anything else. I would love to see a deeper dive on that. Tech doesn't view ULM as an equal and that could be why Tech couldn't return to being a full member of the Sun Belt Conference after Conference USA hemorrhaged members.

[@matthewhallberg8256]

Really? With the absurd amount of bowl games these days I'm surprised a 9-3 team would be left out

[@currahee]

@@matthewhallberg8256 ikr, hard to believe they couldn't even make the lil caesar's pizza bowl

[@patrickracer43]

The closest I could think of this situation being in the NFL is when the Chargers and Raiders had gone in their final regular season game and a tie would get both teams in the playoffs

[@zack9777]

Brandon Staley timeout away from a tie

[@thadanzwiggler]

IIRC the Raiders were content with the tie...until the Chargers took that timeout.

[@briandonegan8480]

The 1990 bowl picture was screwed up. A team that would split the National Title, Georgia Tech was relegated to the Citrus Bowl while Virginia (a team they beat) got to play in the more prestigious Sugar Bowl with a higher payout

[@stevenpeters3723]

That year Baylor won “ The Integrity Bowl.”

[@marcus813]

I knew the SWC was messed up back then, but I had no idea how messed up its bowl setup beyond the Cotton Bowl Classic was. I hate that Baylor would've had to lose just to ensure a bowl bid. Thank goodness the bowl system works differently these days beyond the bowls that conference champs are tied to.

[@Jbobii]

This was definitely one of those *freeze frame* *record scratch* "Let me tell you how I got here" moments

[@benjaminfeige7986]

1990 Independence bowl ended in a 34-34 tie between Maryland and Louisiana Tech.

[@jehobden]

I'd just graduated from Baylor a couple years before this happened, and I remember it was a big disappointment. I was thinking BU could accept the bid then renege on it if by some lucky circumstance it won the conference. Neither of the 2 things that had to happen for BU to win the conference happened. I do understand Coach Teaff's reluctance to accept a bowl bid during final exams, as Dec. 15 fell during or just after finals. The 1995 BU team did even better, 7-4, and also got no bowl bid. It was the last winning season Baylor had until 2010.

[@TheManFromWaco]

What makes the Independence Bowl's behavior in this scenario a little suspect for me is the fact they had already booked nearby Louisiana Tech, a university only an hour down the Interstate with a strong alumni presence in the Shreveport area, and who would be playing in their first bowl game since moving up to D1 in 1988. That should have guaranteed decent attendance numbers no matter who the Bulldogs ended up playing. Surely it would have been worth waiting one more week to see if they could get a much closer and much better Baylor team than having to scrape the bottom of the barrel with Maryland.

[@pronkb000]

For some reason I watched that entire Independence Bowl on a little TV in my bedroom as a kid (since it aired on some low-power OTA station in syndication rather than a channel we had on cable). It was actually a really, really fun game--a 37-37 tie where a tie felt like the genuine correct result.

[@GMUACW]

Only 19 bowls? Seems like they should go to back to that. Also, 2 weeks isn't enough time?

[@DolFan316]

Especially since players refusing to play in bowl games after getting paid 6-7 figures to play college football is the new normal.

[@darthuncle]

In hoops teams sell tickets to the NIT days after the conference tournaments are over. Seems like a lame excuse.

[@chrism7574]

@@darthuncle It was 1990... how are you going to sell and distribute those tickets? Not the internet and not digital tickets.

[@darthuncle]

@@chrism7574 I saw an NIT game in 1990. Will Call. If you want it bad enough you find a way.

[@chrism7574]

@@darthuncle That's the problem. If it's not easy for a customer, they're not going to buy. Sure, you'll get some fans that are going to make the trip at the last second and pick up tickets the day of the game, but that's not going to be the general behavior.

[@anthony0358]

This was an excellent video! I remember the 1990 college season very clearly. But I never knew this backstory.

[@michaellyons9820]

When I read now on college football seasons from 30 and more years ago, it's always jarring to recall just how early those bowl invitations went out. A couple of other Baylor examples from the 1970s: In 1974, the Bears had their first winning season in almost a decade. The at-large invitations went out on the Saturday before Thanksgiving and Baylor had no suitors. Yet Baylor and Texas A&M were tied for first place in the Southwest Conference with the Thanksgiving weekend games remaining. The schedule was for Friday (national TV), Texas A&M (5-1, 9-1) at Texas (4-2, 7-3) and Saturday, Rice (losing record) at Baylor (5-1, 7-3). Regardless of what happened on Friday, a Baylor win over Rice would give the Bears no worse than a share of their first SWC championship since 1924. The problem was that A&M's 20-0 win over Baylor gave the Aggies the tie-breaker for the Cotton Bowl berth in the event of a two-way tie for first place. So the Friday A&M-Texas game was basically going to decide it. The Aggies go to the Cotton Bowl with a win; the Bears go to the Cotton Bowl if Texas wins. Yet the Aggies and Longhorns already had bowl berths. Baylor's 34-24 win over Texas played a big part in the Bears being in this position. Yet now, a postseason reward for what shaped up to be a conference championship depended on those same bowl-bound Longhorns knocking knocking off the bowl-bound Aggies on national television on a Friday afternoon. There were watch parties all over Waco. The Longhorns crushed the Aggies, 32-3. The Bears polished off the Rice Owls 24-3 the next afternoon in Waco and earned an outright SWC title and their first ever Cotton Bowl berth. Without Texas' win over Texas A&M, Baylor would have finished 8-3 and co-champion of the SWC and would not have been in a bowl. In 1976, with Houston now in the SWC, Baylor's season ended the Saturday before Thanksgiving at home against a mediocre Texas team. It was bowl invitation day, and a representative of the Tangerine Bowl was in the press box and was ready to give Baylor the bid when the Bears led 20-3 in the final minute of the fourth quarter. But a Baylor punt was returned for a touchdown and the final score was 20-10. The Tangerine Bowl guy said, "Well, Baylor needed to win convincingly, and 20-3 looked strong, but 20-10 just isn't enough." Baylor finished 7-4 and missed a bowl game because of a meaningless punt return in the final minute of its final game.

[@WaltGekko]

You also have to remember back then there were only 12 or so bowl games. There were RANKED schools who didn't go to Bowls. Most of the Bowls that exist now only started in the 1980's or '90s.

[@johnhardman825]

The Aggies did not go to a bowl game that year. A&M had to beat Texas to go to the Cotton Bowl, with the loss no bowl game with a 8-3 record.

[@martyweasel]

I don't mean to be antagonistic, but in the interest of accuracy, Baylor played 2 games after Thanksgiving in 1976 (my senior year; I was in the Golden Wave Band), defeating TCU (24-19) in Ft. Worth on Nov. 27, and losing to Texas Tech (24-21) in Lubbock on Dec. 4. I believe we were invited to a bowl game, but in the days before corporate sponsorship, the projected payout was so little that the folks in the athletic department felt we couldn't afford to go.

[@reedermh]

Another fun fact about the 1974 Baylor team was that the QB didn't call the formations, the center did. Because the QB had a serious stuttering issue. Even more fun is that the QB is now an associate pastor at one of the most prestigious churches in the Southern Baptist Convention (Neal Jeffrey at Prestonwood). (And he met his wife on a blind date; her major? Speech therapy.)

[@RedRuffinsore]

Watching these highlights, I was struck by how many penalties for roughing the passer and targeting would be called today.

[@bencritterson640]

I like your videos man I just wish they were a little shorter and more to the point. This was a cool story but it did not have to be 15 minutes long in my opinion. Either way keep the videos coming man.

[@fcktherich6913]

Yeah he repeats the same info about 20 times and after 12 minutes he finally gets to the point

[@arcticfox6808]

College football has always been the Wild West. And it still is with the nil and the transfer portal.

[@cjpreach]

1990 Baylor - No win vs Texas. No Bowl Game. No loss of integrity.

[@johncate9541]

I recall that Maryland was lucky to get that bowl bid but I didn't know this story about Baylor. The Terps went to the game and played Louisiana Tech, which got the other spot because it would bring a big crowd. The teams played to a 34-all tie with more than 48,000 in attendance. So the Independence Bowl still got a good game.

[@vdubproductions2646]

This was a situation was one of those Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

[@rogercooper8345]

The bowls are notorious for f___ing teams over. Case in point: 2010 Missouri. They: 1)Beat #1 ranked Oklahoma. 3) Beat Texas A&M in College Station. 3) Finish 10-2. Now, if this were Alabama, a Sugar bowl bid would be theirs for the taking. Instead, however, Missouri gets invited to the Insight Bowl. And to add insult, Texas A&M, at 8-4 goes to the Cotton Bowl.

[@mikebronicki8264]

Welcome to college football. Texas A&M "travels" better than Missouri so any scenario where a bowl has a choice between the two, it will be A&M every time.

[@rogercooper8345]

@@mikebronicki8264 no doubt. Even though we beat them and had a better record.

[@nuwildcat90]

That wasn't the only case in the 1990-1991 where a team's bowl situation benefited by losing. Virginia, lead by QB Shawn Moore, was.a preseason #1. If Virginia ran the table, they would play in the Florida Citrus Bowl as the ACC Champion. However, Virginia lost to Georgia Tech. After the loss, Virginia received an at-large bid to play in the Sugar Bowl to play Tennessee while Georgia Tech played in the Florida Citrus Bowl against Nebraska.

[@KWCline91]

Definitely can't blame Baylor here. They sacrificed a spot in a bowl game for the right thing that year. Fortunately, they would make a few bowl appearances later in the 90's as a reward. If anything, the Independence Bowl got karma when they didn't crown a winner between LA Tech and Maryland.

[@brettpatterson404]

With the Grey Cup coming up in two weeks I would love to see JaguarGator9 cover the story of the 1994 Baltimore CFLers, who were originally named the Colts and were blocked by the NFL from using that name.

[@empire0]

Your avatar is a beauty. Saskatchewan Roughriders, who scored only 4 rouges all season!😂

[@chrisguardiano6143]

This is very similar to what happened in the 1998 Tiger Cup (a competition involving Southeast Asian nations) between Indonesia & Thailand. Entering this game Indonesia was already assured of a place in the semifinal while Thailand would clinch a semifinal place if they did not lose by four or more goals. However whoever won this game would face Vietnam, the strongest team in the competition while the loser would face Singapore, a weaker team. Unlike this however, both Thailand & Indonesia did not realize it was in their best interest to beat each other and this resulted in a game where both teams were actively trying not to win. In fact Indonesia gifted Thailand the win by intentionally scoring an own goal. These shenanigans backfired big time for both Thailand & Indonesia in the semifinals as Vietnam thrashed Thailand & Singapore pulled off an upset victory over Indonesia.

[@ALTAIR2]

So the 83 world cup but Asia

[@CTubeMan]

In 1981 Ivan Lendl played Jimmy Connors in a tennis tournament in which, due to the format, the winner would have to face Bjorn Borg in the semifinals, while the loser would face Gene Mayer. Lendl tanked the match.

[@donaldpaluga]

@@CTubeMan YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!!!!!!

[@Ghostrider6A]

You left something out....the result of the Independence Bowl.

[@clipcoug1139]

When I started to watch the video, I was thinking the only reason why Baylor would want to lose, was because maybe the SWC had rules that prevented repeat conference winners from going to the same bowl (much like the Pac-10 and Big 10 had a "no-repeat" rule in the Rose Bowl for a while). And maybe the SWC had limited bowl tie-ins that had Baylor won, not only would they be not allowed from going to the same bowl, but they would be left out period for whatever reason. Baylor made a pretty balsy decision to not accept the bowl and I can also understand from the bowl's perspective why they couldn't wait for Baylor's decision.

[@a.barker7792]

Here's a bigger scenario. Alabama players opt out now. They are out of the championship with nothing too play for. There recruits have nothing too play for. When I was young, it was about bowls. That's why the championship series needs to be 16 teams in bowls.

[@mikebronicki8264]

Why stop at 16? Let's cut the season to 10 games, have a 32 team field and the eventual champion can have 3 or even 4 losses. Presto! the regular season is as pointless as the NBA. (Yuk)

[@Juuuicy]

You have to cover the Georgia Tech vs Cumberland game in 1916 and how GT won by 222 Cumberlands QB was knocked out cold 3 times and also how this game was revenge for the baseball game a few months earlier where Cumberland secretly had pro and semi-pro baseball players and won 22-0 against GT. If I were to tell you the rest this comment would take me a few hours but there is plenty of videos,books and websites about it

[@brettpatterson404]

There’s plenty of stories already on that. JaguarGator is great but there’s nothing he could do that would top Jon Bois video on that subject.

[@mikebronicki8264]

The best part of the story is that Cumberland was forced to honor a contract despite having dropped football that srason.

[@shawnheidingsfelder8179]

Not sure any other conference was in a better bowl situation. Conference Tie-ins weren't around till recently, where a conference is contractually obligated to send the third place team to the X Bowl. Conference champs went to certain bowl games, but that was about it back then. This problem was more on when they scheduled the smaller bowls, more than the dynamics of a conference title race. Nowadays, the only negotiations that happen comes up when a conference doesn't have enough eligible teams to fill their slots, so the bowl that was shorted has to go find someone else.

[@AEMT-ks4so]

I really want to hear your breakdown of the fall of the SWC starting SMU and the death penalty all the way to the conferemce folding in 1995

[@igorslocks]

Yeah, believe that is definitely a video that needs to be done & since so much time has passed & with conference realignment the story is actually more relevant with age

[@WaltGekko]

That was going to happen anyway once Arkansas left for the SEC (along with South Carolina) in 1992 and the SEC created their first-of-its-kind conference title game. The SWC was an all-Texas conference after Arkansas left and could not have survived that way. Big 8 also had issues which is why they merged and became the Big XII.

[@AEMT-ks4so]

@@WaltGekko but part of Arkansas leaving had to do with some newspaper in Dallas leaking that every team in the conference except Rice was cheating in recruiting. By the way you can thank Texas for that if youre an old SWC fan

[@WaltGekko]

@@AEMT-ks4so The SWC was a mess for a long time because of SMU. Even when they came back it was never the same. Now at least Jerry Jones will have his wish of Arkansas and Texas in the same conference again.

[@AEMT-ks4so]

@@WaltGekko and the SEC will understand why A&M didnt want them here. Watch them try and run the conference like they did in the SWC and Big 12

[@DolFan316]

A similar situation happened in the '77 season when somehow losing the next to last game to the Lions would actually help the Colts win the division and hurt the Dolphins' chances even though both teams had the same record and the Colts had just lost to the Dolphins. To this day there's widespread speculation the Colts threw that game and it worked since they did win the AFC East and the Dolphins missed the playoffs entirely with the same 10-4 record.

[@pronkb000]

This also came up in the goofy 1981 MLB split-season due to the mid-season strike. The first half division winners would play the second half division winners in a pre-LCS series. However, if a team won both divisions, they'd play the second-half second-place team instead (and have a 1-4 home-away split instead of the standard 2-3 in a best-of-5 series). Teams were in position where losing intentionally and letting another team win both divisions could be more advantageous than winning. This also led to a farcical situation where the two teams in the NL with the best overall records, St. Louis in the East and Cincinnati in the West, both missed the 4-team NL playoffs entirely.

[@CTubeMan]

@@pronkb000 You used the word “farcical”. Are you Al Michaels?

[@CTubeMan]

What I find interesting about this scenario is that the Lions-Colts game started an hour later than the Dolphins-Patriots game. When the Patriots won their game it meant that all the Colts would have to do to win the division and make the playoffs was beat the Patriots the next week. So the Lions game meant nothing for the Colts in terms of winning the division (and actually didn’t even before the Dolphins-Patriots game started). However, it meant everything for the Dolphins (who needed the Colts to lose) and the Patriots (a Colts win would have been in their best interests).

[@pronkb000]

@@CTubeMan It's a great word.

[@txflyer82]

I want these jerseys in the next college football video game!

[@northstarpokeshipper2148]

The frowny bear face for the card had to be intentional for the circumstances…

[@dustinsindledecker154]

Well Baylor got a win today so the bear is smiling.

[@DrewChez21]

That's the sailor bear artwork. It's always had that face. Supposed to make it look angry and grumbling like a bear.

[@donaldpaluga]

Wait until JG8 does a video about Oregon and Puddles flunks his anger management class....

[@scottberdahl6957]

maybe do a story on teams with losing records..or at best tie records in bowl games..??? there have been a few over the years..keep up your great work...

[@math5200]

Man u the only guy to make different content about american football. Really don't know why people can't make one like the basketball ones like jxmyhighroller or andy hoops. Also what's this music u put in your videos? It's differentiated I like it

[@williammoodie31]

God this channel needs more exposure

[@andyc.4387]

This was my senior year. We only lost to Texas by 10 points. Unfortunately, our hotshot quarterback, J. J. Joe, broke his hand two weeks earlier, and Steve Needham took his place. Needham did his best but he was no J.J. Joe. And, so, we were snubbed by the Independence Bowl and I never got to go to a bowl game.

[@Those_Weirdos]

God damn, this video should be half as long as it is. Department of Redundancy Department.

[@CTubeMan]

I won’t be able to watch this tonight. But I am eager to watch this. So my insomnia tonight is on you JG8.

[@thekylleroberts]

Same thing kida happened last year with Utah. #3 9-1 Oregon playing @ #24 7-3 Utah both pretty much had their divisions locked up. With Oregon being ranked #3 Utah would have basically locked up the Rose Bowl spot with a loss to Oregon that game. Oregon with that win would have gone into the PAC 12 championship game ranked high enough for the playoffs if they won the rematch, and if Utah won or lost they would have got the Rose Bowl since losing gave Oregon the playoff spot.

[@quinny-bn4jw]

It didn't end up mattering because Utah ended up slaughtering Oregon twice.

[@CTubeMan]

This unofficial Official Jaguar 8/9 historian will remind everyone you made videos about the following: 1. How Baylor played in the 1979 Peach Bowl, in which the bowl committee jacked over a high school marching band. 2. How Baylor’s acceptance of the Peach Bowl invitation caused the Tangerine Bowl to have to go through a bizarre set of steps to get LSU to play in that game. 3. How the year before Virginia Tech would have been an automatic qualifier for the Independence Bowl, but didn’t go. 4. The playoff scenario at the end of the 1992 NFL season in which you said it would have been in Washington’s interest to lose its final game.

[@davidcollinsjr4288]

Well now you have me investigating the 84 Washington Huskies and being confused as to why there was a non standard number of conference games

[@jordza2k11]

Wait so a SWC team had morals in the Pony Excess days? LOL

[@donaldpaluga]

Baylor didn't harbor any murderers and rapists back then

[@jordza2k11]

@@donaldpaluga nah just the standard paying players which while NCAA is a dodgy “non-profit” the rules did say don’t pay but tbf everyone did just the SWC harboured the most blatant offenders

[@Bethune_Groundstaff]

Sticks guy got crushed 6:45

[@toddwebb7521]

Or in NFL if you aren't in the playoff picture losing gets you a better draft spot

[@JRFrancisco20088]

Now they allow 5-7 teams to play in silly named bowl games. Can't wait for that 12-team college football playoff.

[@bryannixon4297]

Texas probably wished they hadn't made the Cotton Bowl that year.

[@DerekLMcAllister]

Teaff did the right thing by declining the bowl invite beforehand.

[@TexasTimeLord]

Why didn't Baylor just accept the bowl bid?

[@jbj7599]

These would be better if they were closer to 10 mins. Great videos, but too much filler imo. Feels kinda slow at times. Still watching but just my two cents

[@qazyman]

So that's what they mean by doing the right thing is it's own reward.

[@coachkj62]

Cotton not Codden.

[@nicktaylor2657]

All that and ended up with nothing They lost and got to stay home Should of accepted the bid if being in a bowl was that important

[@darthuncle]

It would have been obvious if they accepted and went out and lost 65-0 to Texas.

[@Donald38]

You should have done this on August 8

[@dustinsindledecker154]

Why?

[@scottberdahl6957]

Oregon state football will make and win the college football playoffs this season. 2023..??...yes they will..your thoughts..???🤔😜🤠