The Suffering Ties That Bind: The Quintessential Bad Sequel

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I really enjoyed getting back into The Suffering recently. It was a cool little horror title that focused primarily on cheap scares, high octane action and a cool story mostly involving the setting. Which made me really excited to check out it's sequel. Excitement that wouldn't last very long past the the first few minutes of Ties That Bind. So let's jump into the thick of it and find out exactly how to ruin a good thing.....
00:00 Intro
01:17 Development
03:20 Brought To You By
06:35 Story
13:10 Spoilers
16:41 Story Continued
27:16 Gameplay
44:36 Presentation
50:00 PS2 Port
54:00 Xbox Port
PC Port 55:57
59:40 All Ports Compared
01:00:17 Conclusion
01:03:19 End

[@AvalancheReviews]

Yo! What's up cuties! If you want to grab either Suffering game, you can get them on GoG for 9 bucks each. Using this link helps support the channel (af.gog.com/game/the_suffering?as=1672895661). Also swing by my buddy's channel and let him know what you think of his content. THAT'S AN ORDER! kzbin.info

[@damiancrowley569]

Sup babe lol thanks for another great video 🤣

[@danielthomas7193]

Unless I'm brain farting here, Jared can you review Psi Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy? Very underrated and another Midway game. Not a horror game. But I think you would enjoy it. Also has multiple ports which we know you love comparing! 😁

[@Gruntvc]

@Daniel Thomas, Psi Ops The Mindgate Conspiracy is underrated and unfortunately did not sell well enough to green light a sequel. I'd also recommend checking out Area 51 from Midway that was released on Xbox, PS2, and PC. I don't recommend checking out Blacksite Area 51 however...

[@danielthomas7193]

@@Gruntvc well realistically most of their games weren't profitable outside of most MK games. That's why they went bankrupt. Interesting fact, I only live about 2 miles from NetherRelam Studios. My grandfather also repaired pinball machines for Bally (before they were a fitness company) who was owned by Williams like Midway.

[@Gruntvc]

@Daniel Thomas, Apparently, Area 51 and The Suffering sold well as they both got sequels. I'm not a huge MK fan, but I like their older games more than the recent MK games. WB is a terrible AAA Corporate greedy company. Not publisjed by Midway, but I recently found out 50 Cent Bullet Proof PS2 sold better than Psi Ops The Mindgate Conspiracy and Cold Fear. I don't dislike that game, but that revelation made me feel sad lol.

[@SpergusonAutismo]

"get out of baltimore alive" easier in the game than in real life

[@SoulInajar]

Lmao ain’t that the truth! I’m glad I made it out

[@elyrienvalkyr8167]

You'll have enough cash to move in, but never enough to move out.

[@ralphwarom2514]

LoL

[@shemasmcguire3999]

No shit

[@RyanHollinger]

I am really excited for this video! This has made my Friday night!

[@randomgeneratedname6035]

Nice to see two of my favourite reviewers in one place

[@Th3Raz96]

Same, love your videos Ryan you've turned me onto a lot of great horror 👍

[@otakusage123]

happy to see you here!

[@pillmatik4239]

Hoyever!

[@brain_drops]

Ryan! Funny seeing you here, love you're stuff just as much.

[@DedAlexFive]

When you said that the game might have been written by 2 people I got reminded of when you get the bad ending, Blackthorne says something along "Now, I will rule this town!". ...But I tought he already did lol. Like, isnt he at the command of a massive drug empire in the city? I was always confused by that haha

[@AvalancheReviews]

And he made enough money to bank role the foundation. They had guns and tanks and shit! HA! The dude already made it!

[@smokebig3584]

More like slang talk playa of Blackmore. Yeah he did rule the town but not in a much directive way like he think. Like can you call yourself the ruler if everytime you live inside another man ? Only have the permission to " break outside " everytime that man " unconsious " ? Imagine the dude is a freaking kingpin artist who can change the fate of a country and yet... If Torque die before Blackmore can take over the body then everything will be reduce to zero

[@GoodDodge]

9:50 "Imagine actually being caught up in a Prison Riot, inmates who might already have a reason to kill you are now on the loose and the people who normally keep those psychos in check are currently being *Spit Roasted* " Lmao.

[@mattlandry]

45:40 that "weightless" animation you were having trouble describing is actually pretty close to how the animators describe that phenomenon. They usually just call that type of animation "floaty" because there isn't any better way to describe it lol

[@AvalancheReviews]

Yeah, floaty definitely fits! Sort of like movements happen instantaneously, with no regard for weight or resistance.

[@I_am_ENSanity]

I really wish they would remaster/remake this franchise.

[@lathrin]

Hell yeah, if given a similar treatment as the RE2 remake both games could be great

[@TheLameGhost]

This was my thought all along the two reviews. A remake in the vein of RE2, with more emphasis on atmosphere and survival horror (with Jared's definition of the genre), and less on combat, they would be amazing games

[@ShadowWolfRising]

It's quite possible nowadays, many a franchise have been brought back recently, even really small and obscure ones like friggin' Kao the Kangaroo.

[@TheLameGhost]

@Gavin Townsley Why not both ?

[@d4rkjust1c3]

Well warna brothers own the rights so I don't see why not

[@wadekubat5141]

The Creeper has got to go in the horror hall of fame. This game had so much wasted potential; I’d love a horror game based around societal ills of specific cities and their histories tailored to their crimes and myths, like Suffering 1 mixed with Candyman etc. This game couldve really been amazing and they kinda shanked it in the execution. There are so many artful and creative, well done elements and it doesn’t come together in the deeply endearing way The Suffering 1 does.(

[@AvalancheReviews]

He really was cool as hell! Honestly, a series that used terrible events in a city's past as fuel for this kind of an action horror game, sounds so fucking cool!

[@kennethshaw2619]

Woooh! That kind of potential gives me a big rubbery one. If that game is ever made, I will shout it's name from rooftops.

[@masontrevelyan2254]

I used to call it the western silent hill its a shooter but the is depth to this shit ur blasting away with them duel revolvers everything u kill represents somthing

[@Disconnect350]

Blackmore and Killjoy are also pretty great.

[@ShadowWolfRising]

Fun Fact, the Creeper had to be toned down. Not because of ESRB or people outside complaining about. Because the people working on the game where getting really freaked out by him, to the point Development was being slowed and people didn't want to work on the game because he was freaking them out so much. Now look at the final product of him......all I can go in response is "What could they have possibly toned down if THAT was the final product?". Like holy crap.

[@Professional_Ghost]

If you beat this game on Impossible you get to see a behind the scenes video where the lead developers talk about how they planned to have a cut character which was meant to be Torque's brother: Skid. But he was eventually removed and replaced with Miles who wears a shirt which says "Skid" on it.

[@docsalty9679]

Hell yeah, another video! The suffering I always felt was pretty underrated, it’s good to see it get more love!

[@AvalancheReviews]

The first one fore sure. The second one.......

[@docsalty9679]

@@AvalancheReviews that’s fair, a good sequel is always hard to come by lol

[@MerlautJones]

Both games are underrated imo.

[@randycluever4857]

I've actually always like this game more than the first. I love the setting, atmosphere and story of the first. But at the end of the day, TTB was just a better playing game. I think at the time it came out, I just liked the bigger arsenal and increased gore too.

[@agbrenv]

too bad the health system and 2 weapon limit was a regression, which has a negative effect on gameplay

[@masontrevelyan2254]

@@agbrenv my biggest criticism of this game

[@Salamander676]

Wasn’t the gore increased but downgraded? Suffering 1 actually has more gruesome melee weapons and 3d chunks of gore compared to 2 But I agree suffering 2 has better atmosphere and setting, it kinda reminds me of predator concrete jungle and the warriors mixed with manhunt, silent hill and doom Not gonna lie

[@zacharyharris2177]

This series deserves another chance

[@themeangene]

They should have just made the twist an actual possession story. It would explain why he has the limited ability to transform. You could still keep the interesting antagonist The Fight Club rip off just ruined the series.

[@contrabandresearch8409]

I always like when horror mixes supernatural and real life terror. I like The Suffering because it reminds me of Candyman, which did a lot of that with its storytelling.

[@blitzkrieg2928]

Really liked the different rage modes based on your morality in this game

[@jjenk911]

Good on you for turning down 4 Raid Shadow Legends sponsorships. You da real MVP, Jared.

[@AvalancheReviews]

Thanks! Now can I interest you in a revolutionary online RPG called Raid Shadow Legends??

[@kyledodson2992]

I’m sure his wife is a socialist as well. Money for food is capitalism

[@toxics.]

Out of the two Suffering titles, Ties That Bind will always be my favorite! Awesome to see you covering it as well, regardless of your opinions of it!

[@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051]

How?

[@robertotubil6896]

The Creeper is still one of the most disturbing villains in a game.

[@mandydiaz8808]

I think the story would have improved with simply making “Blackmore” into a spirit. A supernatural being that feeds off of the general malaise and negativity of a given area rather than be a duel personality. If Blackmore was a spirit it makes sense that torque coming to the island set shit off; torque (who experienced lots of hardship and negativity) comes to Carnet Island (a place with its own violent and negative past) both react with each other. In that way they can still have Blackmore and the island still be it’s own unique place. When torque escapes the island, the horrors (slayer, marksman, mainliner, etc.) come with him to set off a reaction in Baltimore as a sort of negative feedback loop. It also explains why killjoy is still around. That way it makes sense that the monsters that were unique to the island made it to Baltimore, granted with some variation due to the cities unique evils. Blackmore can be a spirit that takes over the bodies of people who’s souls are filled with strife, have it show Blackmore look like that to torque but it be different people. With Blackmore being a spirit that feeds off of the negativity it makes sense for him to be involved in drugs because of the bad shit they bring. Such a waste, with one change it could have improved greatly

[@pko_2.0_pop7]

I also have a similarity opinion with you. Either Blackmore as a mafia spirit or a real evil magician psychic man would have improved the sequel so much considering how great he is as one of main antagonist in the game. Such a wasted potential by turning him into the evil alter ego personality of Torque.

[@Santalilcamper]

THIS was the game that I watched my friend play in like 1st grade when I was way too young. The scene with the boy drowning in the bathtub of blood will always be etched into my memory.

[@Ock_mantis]

I enjoyed both games quite a bit. I'd say, narrative wise the first game was more interesting. But the second game was wayy better every other way, imo. Even down to how the monsters and torque himself are..for lack of a better word scaled just makes you appreciate the designs even more. How weapons function. Feels alot less arcady. And made you make use of all the weapons you could find even having to make choices on the fly as to what guns would benefit the situation more. As someone that's actually from Baltimore, it was kinda cool to get a lil love in a video game so i suppose it felt a bit relatable. Your transform has few new bells and whistles. I could go on and on. I just think over all 2 is a better game. I'll give over all concept to the first game though.

[@AvalancheReviews]

I think the second game had plenty of great things going for it, but the smaller scope to areas, repetitive design and ineffective weapons really had me wishing I was playing the first game, with the second game's improvements.

[@fruitpunch6601]

Hell yeah! I have been waiting for this video to come out, thank God it's on my day off so I can binge the whole thing 😭

[@SellingSouls]

An hour long video from Avalanche Reviews? Oh boy, this is gonna be awesome.

[@lingricen8077]

An unoriginal, cliche comment? Oh boy, I’m sure the uploader appreciates that after putting all that work into the video

[@SellingSouls]

@@lingricen8077 Lmao. Who shat in your cereals, bud? I had no idea what to comment, as I don't usually comment, so I thought was nice. I still think so. And I couldn't care less whether you like it nah.

[@lingricen8077]

@@SellingSouls for someone who doesnt care, you sure are salty

[@SellingSouls]

@@lingricen8077 Salty? LOl. Quite the hypocritical thing to say, especially given the fact that you got so triggered that my comment wasn't "original" for ya. lol. KZbin stupidity won't ever cease to amuse me.

[@ZombiAstral]

Funny thing is THE SUFFERING 2 is the game I actually played. Never played the first, so I got a neutral start. I enjoyed it and found it legitimately terrifying, until the half way point. The experience was heavily soured by many problems you've mentioned. Particularly the ammo scarcity, extremely spongy enemies, and HEAVY difficulty spike towards the latter half of the game. Hell I remember using ps2 cheat codes to survive some bits.

[@AvalancheReviews]

It’s good seeing other people sort of validate those complaints.

[@twistedmetal100]

I share the same opinions. The game started out good but slowly got tedious. I had to drop it after a glitch in the level where you have to fight a helicopter as a boss. It wouldn’t let me progress through the game. I’ve played through both, the suffering is a much better game in my opinion. The atmosphere of being in the prison is much more scarier than the city in ties that bind.

[@josephzamer5802]

This series are awasome, hope you continue tackling those "obscure" old gens survival, just ps2 is a gold mine for content man

[@ADa89mixus]

Nice nudge

[@ismokemadherb4677]

Great work as always, always look forward to your videos. Keep up the great content and keep up the awesomeness.

[@AvalancheReviews]

Thanks! I will definitely try.

[@Rough_n_tough]

Time to listen to this in the background while exploding heads in fallout.

[@WolfHreda]

Now, I'd love to see what you have to say about The Suffering's sci-fi sibling, Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy, which I absolutely loved.

[@bradroberts4202]

Psi-Ops needs a remake! 😎✅🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@danieldevito6380]

I'll NEVER forget playing the first "The Suffering"...

[@bluestinger2526]

This game falls short of the first in many ways but I still found it a really enjoyable experience.

[@DanJay1996]

Always a good day when another video from Avalanche Reviews gets uploaded!

[@BlackSheep774]

I remember playing this on a demo disc back in the day haha cool vid

[@ghostlightningboi5618]

I have a possible theory that might make sense of a few things: 1stly, Blackmore may not actually be an alternate personality at all, but some kind of powerful being from the same nightmarish metaphysical realm as the Malefactors, possibly their creator and/or ruler, which would explain how & why Blackmore is able to command the Malefactors to do his bidding, such as sending a horde of them after Ranse Truman or having a group of Slayers attack Torque in Eastern alongside his human henchmen. 2ndly, the reason Blackmore was so hellbent on sowing crime & violence & despair throughout Baltimore before the events of the games was to artificially (speedily spread) create enough trauma, bad feng shui, & negative emotions to transform Baltimore into a genius loci of suffering, & from there quite literally unleash Hell on Earth, with Carnate Island being a naturally (slowly forming) occurring genius loci (living location and/or portal to alternate dimensions) of such darkness. 3rdly, from my personal experiences, such places in real life will almost always require a LIVING human who has gone through dark emotionally traumatic shit of his or her own to use as a kind of stationary host or as a roaming vessel in order to activate said genius loci's power & spawn all kinds of weird metaphysical fuckery in the former, (stationary host) & do the exact same things with the addition of spreading it's power in the latter, (roaming vessel) for that piece of the puzzle, enter our boy Torque. 4thly, by taking over Torque's body, Blackmore will literally be inhabiting/preserving/puppeteering the portal he's worked so long & hard to create, & at long last be able to win his ''game'' with possibly no other strong enough ''players'' to stop him & his Malefactor minions from making Baltimore & possibly the rest of the world their playground. 5thly, I believe that The Creature (Torque's ''Rage Form'') is a metaphysical manifestation of Torque's Jungian Shadow, which in simple terms is the embodiment of one's own dark side & unconscious traits & instinct driven urges. (The Human Id) Just my own personal head-canon, & what I believe would make at least some sense of the overarching story.

[@BlackOwlMage]

Seems that they tried to do with Blackmore what Araki did with Diavolo/Doppio in Jojo's Golden wind but in Golden Wind it was explained that Diavolo is paranoid and secretive and used to proxies to give orders so no one knowing who he or his other personality Doppio was made sense.

[@sandrothenecromancer6810]

Also diavolo seems to be supernatural as he can change his physical form

[@Maggerama]

It's upsetting to hear about Jordan's brother. A true tragedy. My brother is my best friend for life, and it's devastating to even think about what I'd have to go through if he passed away. I just selfishly hope to die first.

[@BabyArms]

Stockpile as many photos and as much video footage of family and close friends as you can, and always check on how they're doing. You never know. I wish I had more videos of my brother and recordings of his voice.

[@Maggerama]

@@BabyArms I'll take your advice, my good man. And I'm truly sorry for your loss, genuinely wishing for this wound, well, not to heal, it's impossible, but to scarify at least. But some things are relegated to time alone.

[@BabyArms]

@@Maggerama I appreciate that man. I'm doing all right these days, but it's been rough on the family as a whole. I think the best way to honor and preserve the memories of people we love is by trying to carry what we loved about them forward in our own actions and lifestyles. Keeps a little bit of their essence around. Hopefully that little bit of unsolicited philosophy will resonate. And thanks for these comments. Didn't expect to see any like this. I'm always humbled by the humanity strangers can sometimes share across the internet. Anyway, Jared made another home run of a video, right?

[@Maggerama]

@@BabyArms Thank you for even talking to me about it, I am the one who's humbled here. And I will remember your heartfelt words. As for the video, it's a blast. I know he likes to pretend that he doesn't revel in expressing his discontent [extremely reasonably, I must add], but he can't fool anyone - I see and hear his love for the craft, whether its tone is positive or mostly negative in the moment. Also, I appreciated how he guessed and prevented every complaint I could've had about his criticism. Listening to clever people who know what they're talking about is one of the greatest joys in life. The same goes for you, by the way. I'm yet to binge but, see, I liked The Batman, and quite a bit... yet the way you spun your dislike for it, played off it by creating a separate playlist with recommendations, made me admire you instantly, despite the difference of opinion.

[@BabyArms]

@@Maggerama Glad that video didn't turn you off from my stuff completely, ha. I meant no disrespect to people who liked the movie, and all of the sass I offer up in future videos is directed purely and exclusively at people who gave me crap for my take on the movie. Also, I've been meaning to rewatch The Batman and see if my feelings on it change. If my opinion changes, I'll probably put out a newer video telling my past self to stfu. And yeah, from the very first video of Jared's I found, I knew it was a channel I'd be revisiting a lot. Really like the port comparisons and in-depth graphics talk he usually does.

[@d4n5t3p3]

I'm in the middle of the video and I just want to point out that I was playing the first game on hard difficulty (the one before the hardest) and that was a completely different experience from what you're describing. I literally almost never had healing items (I had full stack only like 4-5 times in the whole game and most of the time I carried only 1 or 2 heals cause the damage enemies dealt was even bigger than I could heal) and I had to survive sometimes several arenas having less than half hp and dying on each of them a couple of times. Also enemies felt like they had twice as more hp and dealt more damage than in TTB. After the first game I decided to not repeat the same mistake and start TTB on the medium difficulty and oh boy was that much easier and fun, I had troubles only with some fights near the end and amount of healing items after the first game felt really refreshing to me, even though I couldn't carry them with me anymore. I'm not arguing or saying that you're wrong or anything, I think it's just interesting how a simple difficulty setting can make so much of an impact on your experience with a game

[@Zackarco]

I would love to see The Suffering 1 & 2 remastered. Would be a sight to behold.

[@saloz9483]

I cant agree this is a bad game. I loved the first and I enjoyed the sequel.The gameplay was still fun and the story beats didn't really bug me. I will say that I wish they didn't reuse enemies from the first games as representations of certain aspects of street crime. I would've liked that all the creatures were original to this game instead of just some.

[@itsaustin1410]

Yes! An hour long video from Avalanche on my night off? We’ve been blessed boys 🙏🏼

[@AvalancheReviews]

Sometimes things happen for a reason

[@CastleBannisher]

Great work as always, man! I remember hearing aboutt the suffering a long time ago, but I remember it not being positive, so seeing you enjoy the first game threw me off a little. This must have been the one they were talking about.

[@lobotomusprime1443]

Idc what anyone says about this game, I absolutely love it. Hard to find and I have them both 💯 The Suffering was legit my favorite game and still is. It's a shame it didn't get the coverage it deserved.

[@dkrmedia4019]

This game is more of a guilty pleasure when compared to the first. Was always disappointed how convoluted the story got with Torque and his past. Would have loved to see them focus more on the lore of the creatures and perhaps gave a more concrete reason why all these events were taking place in the game. However, it still had solid gameplay and a creepy atmosphere to it. Still hoping one day we get a reboot to this series.

[@miskatonicalumni5612]

I was worried I'd have f all to watch today and here we have the review I've been waiting for since I watched the Suffereing review on this channel. The sequel was fun too...

[@thegameingfox]

Ruffus the cat sounds cute

[@RiseTh3G4m1ng]

The audacity of this man to say the video is already too long, never enough! Great job as always!

[@coreymartin6363]

I'm pretty sure that, in the first game, the evil history of the island caused the supernatural event that spewed forth Baltimoreans. Carnate wasn't quite evil enough, however, to merit the entire lineup.

[@sjakkalul]

Alone in the dark when??? as it is the OG (i was going through my ps1 games and found the booklet for the new nightmare and i was sure you had an video on it) i need alone in the dark in THE AVALANCHEVERSE

[@thomasraines1396]

I replayed this recently and didn’t remember fighting soldiers at all, all I remembered were the monsters so I was honestly shocked when they showed up.

[@JJRodriguez]

Bruh. Your videos are worth paying an extra ten bucks for Wi-Fi on a for hour flight. Thanks

[@AvalancheReviews]

Awww man! Thanks! When I'm a millionaire, I'll owe you 10 bucks.

[@JJRodriguez]

@@AvalancheReviews Maybe if I became a content creator worth a damn 🤣🤣🤣

[@klizzard5166]

i honestly thought you had 10 times more subs. have seen plenty of channels with over 2m subs that doesnt sound as interested in what they are working on as you. think i have been a sub for about a year now but never noticed how underrated you are. def worth 2mil subs at least

[@alexbenavidez4500]

Hey man, thanks for giving Jordan a shoutout at the start of this video, I don't think the algorithm would have managed to bring me to him organically Love to see KZbinrs supporting one another and for personal channels creating passion content not solely for the algorithm Gods A channel-to-channel sponser isn't something I've seen before, but it's definitely a welcome change, although I understand why people do accept brand offers I'm also positive I was already subscribed to your channel as I remember watching all the Dead Space retrospectives, but for some reason I had to subscribe again. This has happened to other KZbinrs before and is possibly a glitc.

[@BabyArms]

Glad you're glad to have found me.

[@KittyKix26]

My only guess with how they thought these personalities would play into the story is much like the more modern film "split" His own guit over his family causes massive breaks in himself along with what happened in the last game (that's why he sees mr old timey). 🤔 But even still, you'd think man would know he has an alternate king pin dealer persona 😂

[@MundMoriginal]

I only played this one. It was incredible! I love games with heavy horror and gore, or at least I was very into those when I played this onr, and the psychological twist was nice, as where all the villains.

[@sentenced03]

same i never played the 1st one and I loved ties that bind.

[@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051]

@@sentenced03 That explains your opinion very well.

[@MattieK09]

First one is better

[@ShadowWolfRising]

Ok, let me go over a bit of what I read off TVTropes. The Malefactors might be her life's work (I also don't know if that's actually explained anywhere, I could probably look some more.) but from what I read she is NOT creating them, them appearing only requires some kind of Catalyst that I don't know if what that is is explained or not (There's a fun entry on the WMG page for that, Which I will mention at the end of this comment, but It ain't that, at least not in the form used as that would require this series to share a setting with fucking Shadow Hearts, which as goofy as that sounds, makes a WEIRD amount of sense.). All it requires is that catalyst and a place with enough history of evil acts by Humans to manifest the Malefactors. Oh, and here's the fun part, according to what I read that in this setting that's every place Humans have been, the only places theoretically safe are places Humans have not inhabited. Like MAYBE outside of Earth. That's why they were able to Manifest in a regular city like Baltimore, Carnates was an especially bad place full of fucked up history even by most Standards, which makes Carnates a particularly potent area (Especially given how small an area it is, the fact It's almost as bad as Baltimore is a true testament to how truly horrible the events on Carnates were.), but this could happen literally anywhere. New York, Tokyo, London (Holy Shit would London be particularly bad.), Dubai, etc. But to circle back no she's not making them, she might have sparked said Catalyst....or she may not have and is merely studying them. We'll probably never know unless the series inexplicably gets revived (Which weirder things have happened, a new Kao the Kangaroo just came out.). Dr. Killjoy was brought back.......because people loved Killjoy, that's the out of game reason. As for why following Torque......well there's heavy implication that Killjoy........might be Torque's Father or Grandfather or at least related to him. He mentions having known Torque's mother. There's a picture of him in his youth that looks alarmingly like Torque. And given said comment about his mother, him following Torque might be because he's aware of this fact, and in his own fucked up way, looking after his kin. The Creeper is kinda interesting in one way. That had to tone him down quite a bit. Not because of the ESRB or people complaining or anything, because the people working on that game were getting INCREDIBLY freaked out by him, some not even wanting to work on the game anymore because of him. It's kinda amazing they made a character so fucked up the people working on the game were too freaked out to work on the damn game because of him, so they had to tone him back. And the fact this is what we got AFTER TONING HIM DOWN is kind of amazing/terrifying. The Creeper and Slave Catcher are definitely not really tied to the story or Torque in any meaningful way unlike the 3 from the first game (Especially in the case of Killjoy if the above is true.) but, and I'm not trying to defend the game here........That in and of itself kinda makes a weird kind of sense. Torque is HEAVILY tied to Carnate as were the Spirits, Torque being a Prisoner also heavily ties to the 3. Each one had a vested interest in him relating to when they were alive (Assuming Killjoy is even dead and didn't somehow put his conscious into the TVs somehow, given he shouldn't have a connection to Baltimore or something equally insane. He did create some machine and was about to Patent it before Disappearing, 'The Rebirth Machine' which might be related to the SCP Wannabes in this game. I genuinely question if Killjoy is even a Ghost.) One was similar to Torque and wanted to save him from his fate as well as get him to release him from his Torment, the other Executed Prisoners and was killing everyone on the Island so.......yeah. Not to mention is obsession with Murderers, hence his specific interest in Torque The 2 new guys on the other hand, well Copperfield is implied to have hunted Torque and Carmen's ancestors, but beyond that I think he would have just gone after anyone that fits his bill, being more tied to the past of Baltimore than anything Else. The Creeper especially is tied to the Area, but there's NO reason Torque should interest him at all on paper. The only reason you fight him on the Evil Path is because he sees Torque as stealing his glory as being top Evil Shithead. It really comes across to me that they are there to highlight Baltimore's evils, not to be connected to Torque at all (The fact Copperfield even has THAT connection to Torque could be seen as a coincidence.). .....But that's purely conjecture on my part. As for the game's ending, now this is PURELY me guessing given all the lore given to the Malefactors and the Foundation and the fact this can happen literally anywhere on Earth, it feels to me like they were planning to do more games. Some perhaps not even following Torque, but that is purely me guessing. Which given that bit of knowledge, this feels like you could EASILY make this work and draw on history of various different places for different monsters, this series is actually perfect as a big franchise given that, it's basically the equivalent of Silent Hill if Silent Hill Manifested the Demons of a Location instead of a Person. Something neat is the Malefactors in Baltimore that also showed up at Carnates are actually different, not just in terms of Designs but also origins. The Slayers......well they are supposed to be death by decapitation, which is baffling because even at Carnates this wasn't a execution that utilized there.........the fact there are so many not just at Carnates but Baltimore is quite puzzling.......the fact they are the most numerous and thus likely the most common cause of death by the Malefactors is.....both puzzling and disturbing (Even if we accounted for accidental knife attacks that decapitated or the like, this would still make Slayers a Rare enemy, not the most numerous.). The Mainliner of Baltimore represents Heroin overdoses rather than Lethal Injection, that is a neat touch. The Burrowers in Baltimore are those who died building the Town's Underground Infrastructure. The New ones have various other interesting origins, one was even for a thing that was done out of desperation instead of Malice (The Gorger).

[@AvalancheReviews]

I would be down with the story saying that these things can happen anywhere. It would make a for a great narrative world to set sequels in, but after two games, I need some kind of info.

[@ShadowWolfRising]

@@AvalancheReviews I'll see if I can't find something more concrete. 'Looks' Well, there's an easter egg room in the game with a Poster of Torque with the phrase 'The Beast In Me' (Which does show up in at least one other place.), and Audio Recording on the Phone about Killjoy, a jump-scare, and a Chalkboard again about Torque and his Monster form, which given only Torque has been able to see, is rather alarming. Dr. Killjoy knows more than he's letting on. I think the room was hints towards a possible 3rd game. (Found that in a video showcasing them here on youtube.) In the same video there was an Easter Egg enemy that wouldn't be out of place in a Kool-Aid commercial and wields a Full Sized version of those plastic cocktail swords they put in drinks or put cubes of cheese on, with two huge ass olives on it. If you beat him you can take his weapon which 1-2 hits enemies. Goofy as hell. Not Relevant, just so fucking weird I needed to share that. TotallyPointlessTV has a good retrospective of the first game. Most of the parts about the Catalyst and everywhere having enough seem to be purely implications rather than said out loud (Though Carnates does not appear to be the first incident given Jordan's journals, their tendencies to try and CAPTURE the Malefactors, and the fact that........well the Foundation exists at all and already knew all the shit that went down without being there. This also means that Torque isn't the trigger, as Carnates was the first incident of this he knew about (Blackmoore however I have no idea, it's possible he knew about them already before the Island.).). Interestingly, it seems to be the case that in his documents, Ranse Truman was special in some way.......Perhaps like Torque. He mentions fighting several waves successfully........but on the last wave he had to do something 'Drastic' to survive. What could be 'Drastic' given that context? That's really all I could dig up that can be cited in game even if only partially and with guessing, Further research would be required and I wouldn't even know where to begin to look.

[@saltt1]

Very excited for this video before I go to bed thanks avalanche

[@AvalancheReviews]

Here's hoping it helps you get to sleep.

[@Aqua-wc2bk]

Thank you for the plug to Jordan channel. seeing his playthrough of kingdom hearts 3 for his late brother really resonated with me since I have a strong connection to the kingdom hearts games because of my mom that passed away.

[@AvalancheReviews]

Very happy to hear that. It had a similar effect on me.

[@TZCHHK]

I actually liked the sequel, quite a bit. The Creeper was the most depraved mofo I've ever seen in a horror videogame, props to the narrative team for that one.

[@AvalancheReviews]

I really liked both him and the salve hunter guy. They did a great job creating villains you really enjoyed hating.

[@GrailSeeker]

Great review as always! You've become one of my favourite youtubers ever since I found your channel couple of months back. Do you plan on reviewing Condemned and maybe classic Blood and Blood 2?

[@AvalancheReviews]

I absolutely do! Both of those would make for really fun projects. I've got a long list of games to cover, but those two are high up in it.

[@biohazarduncovered]

Rufus opinions on the game spun my head at first 😂 I didn't expect that "meow"

[@explorinjenkins349]

I got this game for 5 bucks at a pawn shop. I loved it, it had some good replay value.

[@Lord_Deimos]

I miss the times when games like this were common, no matter how flawed they may be. Nowadays everything has to be a ''cinematic'', AAA quality, 80 hour slogfest in an empty open world. Say what you will about games like The Suffering, Dark Corners of the Earth, Darkwatch etc but they had character... Hopefully Nightdive will give this series the remaster treatment.

[@peposo7]

The thing about action in TTB, is that unlike the first one, in this one you promote the transformation mode. In the first game, it had negative impacts so I played the whole game without it. However, the 2nd game its the other way around. The more you use it, the more powerful you get. While being in human mode its hard with so little ammo for anything you get, in Monster mode you can level up and grew up laser cannons that will pummel everything.

[@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051]

You don't level up in monster mode by fighting, you level up by going into one of the extremes of the alignment.

[@jorgenjorgensen2739]

Whoa dude, how come I'm only seeing this now? I love you content. I thought you retired.

[@AvalancheReviews]

Ha! Not yet. Just took a little hiatus to move to Japan.

[@dominicmerzib2096]

For some reason playing the suffering years ago left my brain looking ag the gameplay brought me back

[@afireinsidebrad]

TTB was the one i started with, so naturally i lean towards that one more, hell it was almost 10 years after the fact that i finally got to play the first one

[@cloudy7868]

I’ve been waiting for this one!!!!

[@AvalancheReviews]

You may want to temper your expectations.... I'm not very nice to it.

[@Pryda-Z]

This video had no right bring this good! Nicely done dog

[@revlouder5865]

Been waiting for this

[@danteshollowedgrounds]

I never played this one before but now I'm invested in doing so.

[@Insanabiliter_In_Linea]

Giving sponsorship to small content creators is the kind of sponsorship I can get behind, and I don't say that lightly as I despise advertisement in general. Major props for that, it's nice to see.

[@BabyArms]

Glad the shout out Jared gave me didn't get on your nerves! I was a little concerned about that happening some, and it'd be understandable. I can't thank Jared enough.

[@Insanabiliter_In_Linea]

@@BabyArms Not at all, it was a nice change of pace from the usual Raycons, random VPNs and Raid Shadow Legends I see all the time on KZbin. They deserve far less of the spotlight as far as I'm concerned.

[@rightglve]

I remember randomly picking this game up at my local game stop for like 14$ on xbox at the time and i loved every minute of it....then i found out it was a part two..so i played the first one "prison is hell" and i went from loving this game to being sad about ties that bind.

[@hazzer_j]

Man I loved this review, I came online to find out if The Suffering 2 was as bad as I remembered it as a kid, and everything I was thinking was explained here. Great video, and if you need any validation at all... I agree with everything you said haha. Thanks bud, keep at it, subbed!

[@AvalancheReviews]

Man, I was so stoked going into this video because I hadn't played S2 before and I loved 1 so much. They really let me down. Good to see it wasn't just me though.

[@hazzer_j]

​@@AvalancheReviews Not at all - the original is one of my all time favourite games, from Stan Winston's team designing the creatures through to the totally original horror elements and the twist with Torque's inner demon just being him going ape s**t and ripping demons apart with his bare hands. I could talk about it for hours! (Actually I do, I have my own channel haha). But the audacity of the devs to hijack the story and change it from Carnate Island being ground zero to simple wherever Torque goes, then retcon the "good" ending to make it so it's technically three versions of the bad ending whatever you do because (spoiler alert) he murdered his family whatever happens... man that is just one of the most gut punching fan disservices I remember in gaming history. I just pretend it doesn't exist. Thanks for validating my opinions, I love your channel so much, you were one of my inspirations to start my own :)

[@hiimjames69]

I'm a simple man, I see Avalanche Reviews. I click

[@noitrex]

Your intro always reminds me of the intro in the vice city, i could not point what about it is similar until now, i searched now the vice city intro and it's the song used in the first seconds when the 'R' logo appears.

[@ibonihs]

i’d love an in-depth video like this comparing Salt and Sanctuary to the new “sequel” (spiritual i guess) Salt and Sacrifice… they changed up so many things, many of them not for the better, but it’s still fun

[@revlouder5865]

And ad that is actually worth watching

[@Ar2kill]

This franchise deserved much better, I loved both games, even though I couldn't finish Ties that bind because the last boss was impossible for me (can't remember why). Hope someone tries to revive it

[@ShadowLegend300]

I played both of the suffering games for the first time back to back a while ago, so I just see them both as one pretty good game divided in two parts, since they are so similar overall

[@TheTopgeartony]

I was having an absolutely awful day, like a trust ruining kind of bad. Thanks for uploading this in time to at least take my mind off of it for an hour.

[@BabyArms]

Hope things start looking up for you.

[@alexico909]

All I remember from this game is getting through it on a slither of health, and finishing it out of spite. I dreaded coming up against any enemy that had guns

[@davidsimpson4046]

You should give a shout out to the “Mason Scale” He’s got a tiny audience yet his stuff is great quality. Also his gig is all horror games, some of which I’d love to see you cover. You should check him out

[@Crazieyboy15]

Care to give a few recommendations. Been lookin for new games to play.

[@darkcat282]

I always enjoy the videos you make. I'm still waiting for Shadow Hearts to show up (Kodelka was ages ago).

[@AvalancheReviews]

I promise. It'll show up at some point.

[@bigpens7697]

"...and the problem with the shitty ones is they get you killed, cause they don't do anything.....cause they're shitty" lmao that earned my like

[@AvalancheReviews]

Ha! One of the few jokes I write that actually landed.

[@andreworders7305]

4:21 ooooh, Monolithsoft. I'm convinced.

[@fhjunior6183]

Thanks for the vid

[@AvalancheReviews]

Thanks for checking it out!

[@DylanYouSonOfABidgeNelson]

Jared, you absolutemalady, you've gone and done it again, my man.

[@AvalancheReviews]

And I'll keep doin it!!!

[@DylanYouSonOfABidgeNelson]

@@AvalancheReviews I'm counting on it.

[@cardonull1465]

I’m glad to see more likeminded people interesting in the same things I am, from Tennessee. It makes me hopeful to find cool friends here.

[@mrbransformer4184]

Great review again. I miss these weird games they made during the 360/ps3 generation. Games like vanquish also, idk, I miss these types of mid level games.

[@KidWZRDTV]

If this series ever gets remastered I need them to pay attention to details. I always asked myself why torque clothing goes away when he transforms. And can the other characters see him as the monster. So much questions

[@damiensocks9294]

Finally! The new avalanche review

[@bwlfarmer]

I really liked this look back at the Suffering. I loved the first game to death but at the same time I was very disappointed in this entry. I liked the combination of the survival horror and action elements to make a great game but the sequel was all action and felt hollow to me. I would love to know what your thoughts on the Deadly Premonition series are. Its hot garbage but for some reason it turned out to be interesting hot garbage.

[@masontrevelyan2254]

Torque seemed tortured an trapped in his thoughts not silent

[@baldmadmac]

I really liked suffering 1 and 2 I wish they did remaster or reboot

[@rodneyabrett]

Oh man. It's probably just nostalgia influencing me, but I liked the sequel a lot actually.

[@AvalancheReviews]

There's nothing wrong with that. if anyone knows about nostalgia effecting them, it's me.

[@Devilkingliebe]

An hour long review. Jared-san you spoil us.

[@AvalancheReviews]

Hell, I wish I could release 2 hour long videos every 2 weeks.

[@-redacted_by_youtube]

So was getting my daily fix of slaughter to prevail and hadn't watched the video of him speaking against the war. Did not take you for a metal head. Your taste in games is just as good as your taste in music. Alex the terrible is a fuckin beast!!

[@ShadowWolfRising]

(Continued) Now for the WMG from TVTropes, this will purely be for fun. First of them 1. It's set in Another Area affected by Silent Hill. That's pretty much all there is to that one (The rest of it was just suggesting someone make a fanfic on it or something.), although it's worth noting there WAS a Silent Hill Pitch where Silent Hill was actually expanding it's influence to another Town and the Main Character, an Exorcist, was sent there to stop that (Would have been the first and if it got made so far ONLY instance of a Main Character going to Silent Hill on purpose knowing full well what was there.) so this one is weirdly realistic. Problem with it, of course, is the aforementioned aspect of the Malefactors being tied to a location and not a person and just killing people indiscriminately. Not really Silent Hill or it's Cult's style. This I'm gonna copy paste. 2. Torque is the product of Silent Hill's cult attempting to birth a god to bring their paradise to Earth. "Everywhere he goes after he has become full of pain and suffering (something the cult's avatar needs as seen with Alessa) after his wife and kids get murdered, Torque starts causing the Silent Hill's Otherworld to slowly seep through, the holes where the Malefactors emerge are the points of intrusion onto reality and the Otherworld would slowly grow out from there as the Malefactors make everyone suffer more. Torque's transformations are him manifesting his power as the God of the cult; normal people do not believe in him, so they only see a berserker raging through the monsters. Until he confronts his own desire for domination and suffering in the form of Blackmore, Torque had incomplete control of his power." This is one Goofy, but in a way makes some sense. 3. Torque is a Powerful Persona User (Albeit if he is, and this is my take on the theory, he hasn't fully awakened his Persona.). "The Malefactors are servants of some force who fears that Torque will one day ruin whatever plans he has for the real world. The transformations are incomplete Persona uses, where Torque cannot separate himself from his Persona. Blackmore is his Shadow, and by finally defeating him in Ties That Bind, Torque can fully control his Persona power." 4. The Malefactors are being unintentionally summoned by Torque "One possible interpretation is that Torque is a kind of empathic psychic (A Prime, to borrow the Foundation's term) whose powers manifest in the creation of Malefactors wherever he goes. It's possible that characters such as Truman are also afflicted with this condition, judging from how genre-savvy and philosophical he is about them while everyone else is terrified. What's more, this power only manifests when a person who has it crosses the Despair Event Horizon, triggering an initial uprising of Malefactors. Those Malefactors then have a chance of causing more Suffering which in turn has a probability of causing more latent Prime subjects to awaken their powers. Usually the Malefactors (which are inherently self-destructive, like the very misanthropic horror they represent) kill their Prime originator, causing them to cease existing, but in Torque's case, he is such a badass that they can't seem to lay him low, despite the fact that the longer he lives, the stronger and more numerous they become. Of course, Torque has been so distracted by his own personal demons thus far that he hasn't even considered this yet, so a hypothetical third game would have him realize this." (This is the only one that has any chance of being right for obvious reasons.) My Favorite of the Bunch, and the One I alluded to earlier. 5. Torque is really an untrained Harmonixer. "Soaking up Malice through over the course of his remarkably crappy life, someone or something used a young untrained Harmonixer as a conduit for Malice. Everywhere he sets foot pours Malice into the soil, giving life to old sins. The giant holes the Malefactors crawl out of are similar to the "windows" Lady creates in From The New World. Blackmore serves a similar function as Fox Face did in Shadow Hearts, only rather than being the embodiment of a killing curse, he is a sort of "program" left by the one pulling Torque's strings to steer him along the path that benefits this entity's goals. This seems to involve with generating more Malice, as one of the major actions Blackmore does is tear apart Torque's family. Ties That Bind is Torque fighting against the "programming" using the inner strength he developed in the first game (the last boss sequence was him fighting one of the sort of spirits that Harmonixers subdue to change into, this is what allows his psycho form in Ties That Bind to upgrade itself so drastically). A third game would probably involve going to kick the ass of whatever person/thing set all the above in motion." (This makes an ABSURD amount of sense given how the Shadow Hearts Setting works, It will never happen but it'd be amazing if somehow the 2 IP holders greenlit a 3rd game on this Premise. Bonus points if it's a Horror RPG like Shadow Hearts, but that's personal preference.) 6. Malefactor activity is a slow-burn apocalypse. "Malefactor manifestation happens in two locations in the series; Carnate Island and Baltimore. In the second game, there is a government organization called The Foundation that was created specifically for combatting malefactors, meaning that not only where there more incidents similar to Carnate and Baltimore, but there were enough incidents where there were irrefutable proof of their existence, were able to secure enough funding and enough time to create the infrastructure needed for them to properly handle these situations. This means that this could have been going on for decades. If this has been going on for this long, with manifestations of malefactors happening so fast as for Baltimore to go bad as soon as Torque gets off of Carnate, this could mean that not only are malefactors manifesting as an exponential rate, it is only a matter of time before they become public knowledge, with malefactors appearing everywhere. Much like in Ghostbusters, whatever supernatural activity The Foundation were trying to keep under wraps was just a prelude for a title wave of supernatural activity set to drown the human race in monsters and madness." And of course........While watching this, I got one of my Own I thought up, also tied to Silent Hill. The Thing creating these events and creatures is a being of the same kind as Silent Hill, but ISN'T Silent Hill itself. It is either older and far more powerful (And more Malevolent, as solving your inner demons in Silent Hill satisfies the place and it lets you go. This thing just wants to kill.....and Summon Ghosts for some reason.) or perhaps younger and more impertinent. And more Importantly, it can pop up anywhere. It's powers are similar to Silent Hill's, but also differ in other ways, and it has a far different motivation. I bet if the 2 ever interacted, they'd fight each other causing a 3 way battle between them and the Protagonist of such a game, or even more insane, would result in an Enemy Mine between the Protagonist and one of the two, if morality choices are a thing you'd get to pick who, or alternatively if you don't Probably side with Silent Hill as it doesn't seem to want to kill everyone like the other does. Imagine working with Silent Hill in an Enemy Mine scenario, that shit is bananas. Alright, that's pretty much all I got.

[@FrostFire1987]

i wish they would do a full remake of this (i,e resident evil 2 style, proper remake not just a bullshit hd pack)

[@heinrichfletcher6954]

While I am a fan of the two games. Can we talk about how confusing the time frame is at? Now I had not paid much attention to the back story of the making as to why in the first game it looks like it's from the 1920s(?) and in this I am confused where this could take place. 70s? 80s? Also I should say that Torque was also voiced by Michael Clarke Duncan so it may foreshadow something even at the start. And last if this were to come back, do you see this returning as an anthology series? Imo if The Suffering were to return I see Torque doesn't need to return but we get to see someone else's story. Edit: Something to add is if you are on fire in this there's a control setting where you can roll and put the fire out.

[@CabezasDePescado]

I barely played the first one but enjoyed the second a lot, is very dark and creepy