The Switcher You Should Buy!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Howdy folks! Uncle Mason here, the Rig Doctor! Today I'm doing a deep dive into pedalboard switchers, outlining the best features and drawbacks of each. I'd love to hear from you on your favorites and why, or if we can help you navigate a switcher upgrade to your rig or help you figure out your first switcher! Subscribe here: kzbin.info

[@popeye089]

Vertex Effects Wow no gigrig after they showed your product🤔. I see how you roll

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@popeye089 one has nothing to do with other. You can like and respect someone immensely and still recommend other manufacturer's products. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

[@willslaughterguitar]

@@VertexEffectsInc where can I get those little zip tie mounts that you use?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Rock's_Not_Dead Should be linked in the description

[@willslaughterguitar]

@@VertexEffectsInc 👍

[@AZFunk]

The Gig Rig G2. Have been running my A rig board with it (and their modular power supply) for 6 years now. Bullet proof, works great before an amp or in 4 cable method (and yes, great buffers). Pricey? meh, not for a professional piece of gear. Incredibly simple to use, easily tweakable in the heat of battle, as well. Great buffers, handles multiple amps well, handles the amp switching on my Mesas, heavy duty optical quiet switches...Great piece of kit. (yeah, on a cheap board I'd definitely consider a Boss switch)

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Doug Floyd glad it’s working well for you! Thanks for watching!

[@MrHeliosoul]

Man you're so well-spoken Mason! Sometimes I can have to repeat one sentence five-six times before I can piece it together. I appreciate the fact that you don't dumb things down and use impeccable terminology.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thank you for watching!

[@marknachmias423]

Great explanation of the differences among the three switchers featured in the video. The trick is choosing the right one for a specific application (taking budget out of the equation). I think your viewers now have a basis for making an intelligent choice. As always, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thank you so much - as always - for watching!

[@nogoogleplus]

For anyone interested, the RJM PBC 10 has 3 buffers in the chain all switchable on/off per preset...sounds killer with fuzz pedals etc

[@VertexEffectsInc]

The buffers sound good with the fuzz?

[@aculeus1971]

Hi, it may be a bit harder to find in the USA, but I’m surprised you didn’t cover the Gigrig G2 ... very popular with Noel Gallagher, Joey Landreth, Ariel Posen, Josh Smith and many more big names ... Would be interested to hear your take on the Gigrig G2....

[@jerryvahnknight218]

Joseph Rose I too, would love to hear Rig Doctor’s take on all things Gigrig!

[@cubano100pct]

Andy Timmons, Kirk Fletcher

[@jondlg]

He’s never going to give Dan any props since GigRig is the “other” pedalboard guy for all the pros. He already discredited G2 on another comment in this video.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Hi Joseph! I’m fully aware of the product. We were looking at specifically the 5-7 loop switchers here so that would disqualify this switcher by default. I would be cautious about artists leading your way exclusively as validation of what’s “good” or an “appropriate” product for you as a consumer and guitarist. It’s pervasive around the industry for players of a certain profile to be handed free gear and services as a marketing opportunity and not necessarily sought out by that artist. Objectively, I think the G2 would have been one of the more advanced switchers in the market if it were released 8-10 years ago. Compared to it’s similar size switchers, the Mastermind 10 (not covered in this video) or the Mark V MusicomLab (also not covered), the G2 is obsolete. This isn’t a knock on the G2 quality necessarily or Gigrig. This is looking simply at what you get for a similarly priced switcher with an equal (or so) number of loops. I can go through the differences here if needed, but if you do a basic side by side comparison of features, programmability, buffers, stereo options, MIDI options, software organization, it’s on a completely different, and more advanced level. Conversely, some may want something really simple and want to do all their programming on the switcher itself, and for that I can see the appeal of something like the G2.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

​@@jondlg Thank you for watching the video and thanks for your patience on this reply - I wanted to answer your question thoughtfully so I wanted to wait until I had some time to write something in more depth and in detail. To reiterate what I've said in other videos, many people love the G2, and love Daniel and his products. That's great! I'm grateful to Daniel for making the industry a better place than he found it (and continues to do so), and for creating enriching content for guitarists. He's an asset to the community undoubtedly. Now to your comment, I would like to clarify that I do not manufacture, nor sell pedalboards, pedalboard products, or accessories - including switchers. I manufacture guitar pedals, i.e. Vertex Effects, and this is an enrichment component that we're focusing on this year for our KZbin content. None of my product recommendations are underwritten by anything that I sell or stand to gain from financially. Secondly, I don’t make a living building pedalboards (however I did from approx. 2007-2015). Any work you see here is done for the explicit purpose of teaching and educating on KZbin and the number of pedalboard projects I take on is directly in relationship to what I want to teach about for any particular month. We have an application process prospective "exemplars" that want to have their rig be the representative model for the channel, and typically only choose 1-2 of these individuals each month depending on time and scheduling. I'm not attempting to compete with anyone, and, in fact, I refer out to other pedalboard builders almost daily the majority of inquiries we get. All this is to say, I have no proverbial "dog in the fight" or predisposition to sell a product or switcher or withhold "props" from anyone. If I'm asked a question, I'll do my best to objectively make a recommendation. I will recommend what I believe to be the best product(s) for any particular pedalboard build given the circumstance. For this reason, you will see a variety of brands of switchers and products used on my channel from RJM, to Boss, to MusicomLab, etc. I also want to make clear that there is a distinction between not recommending something, compared to "discrediting" it as you've said. I can not recommend something and it can still be a fine product. I caution folks from making fallacious statements like this which presume malicious intent, or draw correlations that aren't there. Objectively, RJM Mastermind 10 and Musicom Lab MKV offer more than the G2 for a comparable price with a similar number of loops. Not only in terms of the software, options for programing, organization menu, but overall features - I'm not really sure that's debatable. But, also, (more subjectively I suppose), these aforementioned units also have more neutral buffers (my opinion), better parts (subjective), better relays (subjective), better jacks (subjective), and switches (subjective). I'd also say, and again subjectively, that the ability to update via USB (MusicomLab, RJM, Boss) instead of having to replace the chip "brain'" of the system (G2) is a huge plus. Again, quantifying "better" is hard, especially since certain parts and buffers can be of a sound the manufacturer is going for - so sometimes choices for something that doesn't spec out as well can be deliberate. Bottom line is, I have massive respect for Daniel. He's an asset to KZbin, and the guitar community. He's galvanized a generation of guitar players in a way that no one else has and I give him mega props for what he's accomplished. I can still like Daniel, respect him, and his work, and at the same time not recommend a product that he makes over one of his competitors. These things aren't mutually exclusive. Respectfully, Mason

[@tgraham1961]

Perfect timing. I was wondering about feature comparisons between switchers and building up the willpower to do a ton of research. Thanks, always great content.

[@yumadapaka]

ive been happily using the carl martin octaswitch for almost 10 years now. it has never let me down. it is built like a tank . my one and only gripe is that its pretty big. im considering the boss switcher . i like that you can rearrange pedal order . thank you for the the info mason!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

The Carl Martin was one of the best for its day, but I think the ES8 will be a huge upgrade functionality for you! Let us know if you have questions.

[@yumadapaka]

@Mark Phillips i just got a used mk3 from reverb.com. i realized that im pretty happy with the way the octa switch functioned. the mk3 is the perfect size for my board! i considered the G2 when i was researching for a new looper. its awesome and andy timmons seem to really love it, but its way out of my price range. Maybe someday.

[@rl2905]

I'm a big fan of my OneControl Crocodile Tail Loop....no need to "Write" anything...it just remembers what's on and what's off for each setting. Requires zero software to operate. Has a nice buffer, tuner out, and multiple main outs. One con is that it cannot rearrange the order of your pedals. But, that's not really an issue for me seeing as I don't think I will ever need to change that. I have it set to control 5 pedals in front, 2 in the FX loop, and I've also configured it to change my amp's channels. It of course also has MIDI, which comes in handy with my BigSky and Timeline. Really easy to operate and looks kind-of cool. Pricey though.

[@kitemonkey]

One thing to note with the RJM that came out with a firmware update recently that allows for the two stereo loops to be split into two separate mono loops, so EIGHT loops :-)

[@VertexEffectsInc]

david hathaway That certainly makes it much more functional

[@ZRJZZZZZ]

Thanks so much. You saved me so much time and money by laying out the pros and cons of each unit.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Jonathan R. Zeko so glad you enjoyed! Thank you so much for watching! I hope we earned your subscription

[@standodge5536]

Looking over switchers, I'm going with the Boss. I already bought a MB buffer pedal so i'm good. Thanks for your recommendation! Everytime I see one of your videos I need another piece for my board.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad I could help!

[@samrfactor]

What a good content! Here we will be sitting waiting for the transmission :)

[@VertexEffectsInc]

So glad you found it useful! I hope we earned your subscription!

[@jefflee2695]

Good video.. I learned a lot about the different programmable switchers.. thanks

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Hope it helps and that we earned your subscription!

[@Starch1b2c3d4a]

Unc knows his stuff. Best gear advice. No nonsense. 🤘✨

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Em B Thank you very much for watching!

[@tds_noel]

It might be old stuff now but my favourite is Providence PEC-2. Was my first programmable switcher, didn’t have any confusions, the buffer was great, the space between switches is perfect, the clicks in the switches is great, best for me! 😁

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I actually really like those as well, I think functionally they’re great! I think some of the newer stuff technologically is more advanced, but I still have a lot of love for the Providence one

[@purefire9]

The musicomlab efx:le definitely has parallel and series routing, as noted in the manual: 4.1.2 Making a Parallel Connection

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yet another reason to get this! When I had gone through it I didn’t notice it on the one I had - was this a later software update or always a part of the system?

[@purefire9]

Vertex Effects As far as I know, it was always part of the system. It is a lot more feature filled than the Boss ES-5 imo, it feels like a smaller ES-8 due to the stereo paths of loops 5 and 6, along with the volume loop which can be placed anywhere in the chain. Something you didn't mention is the fact that you can use the stereo output as well as the iso out. Of course it's important to note you lose the stereo if you move those loops up front before mono loops, but if you only keep them at the end, it keeps the stereo capability. Because of the dedicated tuner out, you could run a kind of a wet dry wet rig straight out of the EFX-LE, but you probably already knew that 😊

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@purefire9 all the more reason to use this one - I should be reaching out to you when I'm programing my Musicom Rig, hahaha!

[@jaredhissa5013]

Bummed out to see no Disaster Area or OneControl, but a great rundown on 3 comparable units - thanks Uncle Mason!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Admittedly, I don’t have much experience with this Disaster Area. The OC 10 was a great unit when it came out, however these nearest switchers have surpassed that technology.

[@jaredhissa5013]

@Vertex Effects agreed - I think you did a great job calling out exactly what you were presenting, how, and why. OC10 is huge, no matrix, limited midi. I guess it’s time to look at retiring my GEC-9.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Let us know if we can help answer questions

[@kirksmith7902]

Thanks, I needed that. I'd seen switcher/router/selector thingies on people's pedal boards but never really knew how they did or didn't work. Kuhl!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Sweet! Hope you enjoyed!

[@Mako_Sharp]

Gotta love the OC10.. I know you've used it before Doc... been a mainstay on my board. Built tuff and the buffer is fantastic. Btw loving my dynamic distortion! Keep up the great content !

[@VertexEffectsInc]

For the time it was the best out there, now there are so many more options that just one available at the time. I have nothing bad to say about that switcher, just that it’s a little obsolete compared to what’s available now.

[@LuisHernandez-dy1rq]

What about the gig rig 2 ?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Luis Hernandez thanks for watching! I have talked about it a few times above in this group of comments, I’m going to copy and paste the response that I had to a few other individuals, some of the particulars are not specific to your question, but I think it will be easy to identify where it’s pertaining to your question, and where it is not: “To reiterate what I've said in other videos, many people love the G2, and love Daniel and his products. That's great! I'm grateful to Daniel for making the industry a better place than he found it (and continues to do so), and for creating enriching content for guitarists. He's an asset to the community undoubtedly. Now to your comment, I would like to clarify that I do not manufacture, nor sell pedalboards, pedalboard products, or accessories - including switchers. I manufacture guitar pedals, i.e. Vertex Effects, and this is an enrichment component that we're focusing on this year for our KZbin content. None of my product recommendations are underwritten by anything that I sell or stand to gain from financially. Secondly, I don’t make a living building pedalboards (however I did from approx. 2007-2015). Any work you see here is done for the explicit purpose of teaching and educating on KZbin and the number of pedalboard projects I take on is directly in relationship to what I want to teach about for any particular month. We have an application process prospective "exemplars" that want to have their rig be the representative model for the channel, and typically only choose 1-2 of these individuals each month depending on time and scheduling. I'm not attempting to compete with anyone, and, in fact, I refer out to other pedalboard builders almost daily the majority of inquiries we get. All this is to say, I have no proverbial "dog in the fight" or predisposition to sell a product or switcher or withhold "props" from anyone. If I'm asked a question, I'll do my best to objectively make a recommendation. I will recommend what I believe to be the best product(s) for any particular pedalboard build given the circumstance. For this reason, you will see a variety of brands of switchers and products used on my channel from RJM, to Boss, to MusicomLab, etc. I also want to make clear that there is a distinction between not recommending something, compared to "discrediting" it as you've said. I can not recommend something and it can still be a fine product. I caution folks from making fallacious statements like this which presume malicious intent, or draw correlations that aren't there. Objectively, RJM Mastermind 10 and Musicom Lab MKV offer more than the G2 for a comparable price with a similar number of loops. Not only in terms of the software, options for programing, organization menu, but overall features - I'm not really sure that's debatable. But, also, (more subjectively I suppose), these aforementioned units also have more neutral buffers (my opinion), better parts (subjective), better relays (subjective), better jacks (subjective), and switches (subjective). I'd also say, and again subjectively, that the ability to update via USB (MusicomLab, RJM, Boss) instead of having to replace the chip "brain'" of the system (G2) is a huge plus. Again, quantifying "better" is hard, especially since certain parts and buffers can be of a sound the manufacturer is going for - so sometimes choices for something that doesn't spec out as well can be deliberate. Bottom line is, I have massive respect for Daniel. He's an asset to KZbin, and the guitar community. He's galvanized a generation of guitar players in a way that no one else has and I give him mega props for what he's accomplished. I can still like Daniel, respect him, and his work, and at the same time not recommend a product that he makes over one of his competitors. These things aren't mutually exclusive. Respectfully, Mason”

[@jeffarowbat6385]

What about the Gigrig G2?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Not a comparable unit to what was mentioned, functionally or technologically. The ES-8, MusicomLab Mark V or Mastermind 10 are much more sophisticated.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I’ll clarify this a little further based on some additional commentary made in another part of this thread. Some of it is a little directed toward the original commentary, but I think you’ll be able to distinguish which is which, and where it applies to your particular question: “To reiterate what I've said in other videos, many people love the G2, and love Daniel and his products. That's great! I'm grateful to Daniel for making the industry a better place than he found it (and continues to do so), and for creating enriching content for guitarists. He's an asset to the community undoubtedly. Now to your comment, I would like to clarify that I do not manufacture, nor sell pedalboards, pedalboard products, or accessories - including switchers. I manufacture guitar pedals, i.e. Vertex Effects, and this is an enrichment component that we're focusing on this year for our KZbin content. None of my product recommendations are underwritten by anything that I sell or stand to gain from financially. Secondly, I don’t make a living building pedalboards (however I did from approx. 2007-2015). Any work you see here is done for the explicit purpose of teaching and educating on KZbin and the number of pedalboard projects I take on is directly in relationship to what I want to teach about for any particular month. We have an application process prospective "exemplars" that want to have their rig be the representative model for the channel, and typically only choose 1-2 of these individuals each month depending on time and scheduling. I'm not attempting to compete with anyone, and, in fact, I refer out to other pedalboard builders almost daily the majority of inquiries we get. All this is to say, I have no proverbial "dog in the fight" or predisposition to sell a product or switcher or withhold "props" from anyone. If I'm asked a question, I'll do my best to objectively make a recommendation. I will recommend what I believe to be the best product(s) for any particular pedalboard build given the circumstance. For this reason, you will see a variety of brands of switchers and products used on my channel from RJM, to Boss, to MusicomLab, etc. I also want to make clear that there is a distinction between not recommending something, compared to "discrediting" it as you've said. I can not recommend something and it can still be a fine product. I caution folks from making fallacious statements like this which presume malicious intent, or draw correlations that aren't there. Objectively, RJM Mastermind 10 and Musicom Lab MKV offer more than the G2 for a comparable price with a similar number of loops. Not only in terms of the software, options for programing, organization menu, but overall features - I'm not really sure that's debatable. But, also, (more subjectively I suppose), these aforementioned units also have more neutral buffers (my opinion), better parts (subjective), better relays (subjective), better jacks (subjective), and switches (subjective). I'd also say, and again subjectively, that the ability to update via USB (MusicomLab, RJM, Boss) instead of having to replace the chip "brain'" of the system (G2) is a huge plus. Again, quantifying "better" is hard, especially since certain parts and buffers can be of a sound the manufacturer is going for - so sometimes choices for something that doesn't spec out as well can be deliberate. Bottom line is, I have massive respect for Daniel. He's an asset to KZbin, and the guitar community. He's galvanized a generation of guitar players in a way that no one else has and I give him mega props for what he's accomplished. I can still like Daniel, respect him, and his work, and at the same time not recommend a product that he makes over one of his competitors. These things aren't mutually exclusive. Respectfully, Mason”

[@Jonathandavidk]

One control crocodile tail loop. Picked one up used on reverb for $300. No one talks about it and it’s amazing.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I have nothing bad to say about them. These are good, were the best ones back in the 2010's, and although there are more contemporary versions with more features, this is still good!

[@1Aquadon]

THANKS, Mason... So right now is 10/25/2020 I'm kind of surprised you didn't have the G2 from Gig Rig in here... But NOW GIGRIG has released G3... could you look over the specs on that and give me your opinion... im about to pull the trigger on it. I checked to see if RJM was gonna released and updated version of the Mastermind PBC10X and they said not anytime soon. I'd really love your opinion on this product... thanks in advance!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

We'll have to re-evaluate after the G3 hits the market!

[@daviddowns16]

The PBC can actually do more loops! The stereo loops can be split to dual mono for two pedals each.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wait what!??? Uncle Ron’s been holding out on me. Are you programming L only and R only on the S/R to get this per loop?

[@daviddowns16]

Vertex Effects kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6nVcoivjb5-sMU Check out this video Ron put up! Turn on the split mono parameter in any one of the three stereo loops. Loop 4 creates a loop 7. Use TRS to dual TS and use tip and ring.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Amazing - love this! Thanks!

[@peterjessop1878]

Now the three stereo loops makes sense suddenly

[@jz6965]

Hi Mason, Thanks for all the helpful info as I don't know to much about getting the best use and functional abilities of putting together a pedalboard and the pedals I need to use. I was curious why GigRig products weren't included in the review via G2 switcher / gigrig quartermaster QMX switchers ect... It seems they make awesome stuff but all is pretty pricey. Any experience with any of these would be awesome with any thoughts you may have. Thanks again...

[@cliverkay]

Had the G2 .. easily the best !!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Jack Zawacki I’m going to copy and paste from a another thread in this group of comments that does a better job of explaining my position, some of the information may not be related at all to your question, but I think it will be obvious where those places are: “​To reiterate what I've said in other videos, many people love the G2, and love Daniel and his products. That's great! I'm grateful to Daniel for making the industry a better place than he found it (and continues to do so), and for creating enriching content for guitarists. He's an asset to the community undoubtedly. Now to your comment, I would like to clarify that I do not manufacture, nor sell pedalboards, pedalboard products, or accessories - including switchers. I manufacture guitar pedals, i.e. Vertex Effects, and this is an enrichment component that we're focusing on this year for our KZbin content. None of my product recommendations are underwritten by anything that I sell or stand to gain from financially. Secondly, I don’t make a living building pedalboards (however I did from approx. 2007-2015). Any work you see here is done for the explicit purpose of teaching and educating on KZbin and the number of pedalboard projects I take on is directly in relationship to what I want to teach about for any particular month. We have an application process prospective "exemplars" that want to have their rig be the representative model for the channel, and typically only choose 1-2 of these individuals each month depending on time and scheduling. I'm not attempting to compete with anyone, and, in fact, I refer out to other pedalboard builders almost daily the majority of inquiries we get. All this is to say, I have no proverbial "dog in the fight" or predisposition to sell a product or switcher or withhold "props" from anyone. If I'm asked a question, I'll do my best to objectively make a recommendation. I will recommend what I believe to be the best product(s) for any particular pedalboard build given the circumstance. For this reason, you will see a variety of brands of switchers and products used on my channel from RJM, to Boss, to MusicomLab, etc. I also want to make clear that there is a distinction between not recommending something, compared to "discrediting" it as you've said. I can not recommend something and it can still be a fine product. I caution folks from making fallacious statements like this which presume malicious intent, or draw correlations that aren't there. Objectively, RJM Mastermind 10 and Musicom Lab MKV offer more than the G2 for a comparable price with a similar number of loops. Not only in terms of the software, options for programing, organization menu, but overall features - I'm not really sure that's debatable. But, also, (more subjectively I suppose), these aforementioned units also have more neutral buffers (my opinion), better parts (subjective), better relays (subjective), better jacks (subjective), and switches (subjective). I'd also say, and again subjectively, that the ability to update via USB (MusicomLab, RJM, Boss) instead of having to replace the chip "brain'" of the system (G2) is a huge plus. Again, quantifying "better" is hard, especially since certain parts and buffers can be of a sound the manufacturer is going for - so sometimes choices for something that doesn't spec out as well can be deliberate. Bottom line is, I have massive respect for Daniel. He's an asset to KZbin, and the guitar community. He's galvanized a generation of guitar players in a way that no one else has and I give him mega props for what he's accomplished. I can still like Daniel, respect him, and his work, and at the same time not recommend a product that he makes over one of his competitors. These things aren't mutually exclusive. Respectfully, Mason”

[@VertexEffectsInc]

cliverkay glad you liked it! Thanks for watching!

[@sak7530]

I use the Boss ES8 and I have no issues with the output buffer. I barley can tell the difference straight in or through the switcher and I use the volume loop for my amp loop. I just run my fuzz before the switcher but now that I know I can turn it off I may run it in the switcher. Thanks!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If you do a true A/B reference (almost nobody does this that is making claims on how good or neutral their buffer is) - you’ll find that 1K is pretty colored (you may like this sound however), and will be different than you guitar plugged into your amp with a short cable. The buffer on the ES8 or ES5 isn’t that different from many of the Boss pedals. Set it up with a bypass looper and you’ll see how much it really changes so you can better calibrate the shift in tone. You will also notice a few dB drop with the Boss buffers typically and the noise floor increase (may be less audible through a clean amp).

[@thesphericalguy9018]

Cool video, I love the idea of programmable switchers but in practise it doesn’t do it for me. Still fun to talk about though! Btw the ES-5 doesn’t have a volume loop, only the bigger ES-8 has.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I think it’s corrected in the text, but I may have not caught all of the errors in the dialogue part.

[@TotalEvo7]

That's what I was thinking (I did say it earlier, but glad someone else also caught it).

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thanks for the sharp eyes gents!

[@loulagro2315]

G2 for me all the way. The user interface is simply the best, quickest and easiest to learn and use on the fly. Plus the sound quality. It ignores any loops not in use and your signal doesn't pass thru that loops relay. I dont think the others do that, not sure, but most switchers signal passes thru each and every relay whether it's active or not. G2 sounds VERY transparent. The modular power supply is brilliant on its own merit, even if you use a different switcher!

[@RobFlaxMusic]

Fantastic rundown of these.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thank you so much for watching! I hopefully earn your subscription!

[@RobFlaxMusic]

@@VertexEffectsInc Yep! That happened this very video. :-) Any advice for a board with lots of TRS Midi? My rig just barely fits on a Pedaltrain 2 and so I've been using a Disaster Area QConnect to control four pedals (Chase Bliss Condor and Thermae, Meris Enzo, Empress Zoia). I love the small footprint and ease of use, but I'm ready to upgrade to a loop switcher. (perhaps one that plays nice with the QConnect). Only problem is: then my board's too big (and I fly with it in a Pelican case, for better or worse). Any suggestions on how to get that loop switching functionality but a really small footprint?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

The RJM is the smallest and you don’t need to use loops to occupy your midi controlled devices. You switcher can make the changes for you in parameters, so why not reserve your loops for pedals that don’t have MIDI and put you MIDI pedals outside the switcher but control them through the switchers MIDI programming. See Rhett Shull’s Rig as an example of how I did this.

[@RobFlaxMusic]

@@VertexEffectsInc Very cool idea. One of the pedals is an Empress ZOIA though, which is kind of an "everything box" in the way some folks use an H9. It's usually good later in the chain anyway, but it'd be nice to have it change preset *and* placement in the signal chain. (Maybe that one goes in a stereo loop, then!). Much to consider... thanks for the replies.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Rob Flax yea, if order is critical then having it in a loop will be the only way to change the order.

[@KristofferGildenlow]

One year later, do you know of any updates on these products that would have turned some cons into pros?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Certainly more switchers have released, but most of them of consequence I haven't seen make their way to the USA yet, things like the G3 for example.

[@tomfoolery2082]

Thanks for saying what numbers to look at when looking for buffer quality .

[@thesphericalguy9018]

Glenn Winburn honestly, I have never run into issues when using devices which outputs 1K to drive long cables.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glenn I don’t recommend anything with an output impedance if 150 ohms. 1K is unstable and will become more unstable depending on how much capacitance is seen on the output. This means higher capacitance cable or long cables will be exponentially worse for every additional foot. I can explain deeper if needed on why 1K is unadvisable.

[@victormotsekgaladua3178]

Thats why we need a Doctor. Well explained sir...

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🥰🥰🥰

[@Reverendtiger]

I think we need an Anime intro for “The Rig Doctor”

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Zachariah Sanders Anybody that is willing to do it I will accept

[@Reverendtiger]

chino Mndza I think the man has more than redeemed himself; every single time someone beats that dead horse he responds with remorse for his actions and he has made sure to rectify his mistakes. Give the man a break; it is time for the guitar community to forgive him and offer him grace.

[@infinaneek]

Man this is the exact video I needed! Thanks so much for a great video!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@GeneralMiller92FIN]

Boss ES-8 has stereo loops. Loop 7 is mono to stereo and Loop 8 is stereo to stereo.

[@ColinTaberMusic]

Would love to hear more about how these differ when it comes to MIDI functionality.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Watch our Switcher's Buyer's Guide Video

[@bmcash3411]

How about the gigrig?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Not a comparable unit to what was mentioned, functionally or technologically. The ES-8, MusicomLab Mark V or Mastermind 10 are much more sophisticated.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I’ll clarify this a little further based on some additional commentary made in another part of this thread. Some of it is a little directed toward the original commentary, but I think you’ll be able to distinguish which is which, and where it applies to your particular question: “To reiterate what I've said in other videos, many people love the G2, and love Daniel and his products. That's great! I'm grateful to Daniel for making the industry a better place than he found it (and continues to do so), and for creating enriching content for guitarists. He's an asset to the community undoubtedly. Now to your comment, I would like to clarify that I do not manufacture, nor sell pedalboards, pedalboard products, or accessories - including switchers. I manufacture guitar pedals, i.e. Vertex Effects, and this is an enrichment component that we're focusing on this year for our KZbin content. None of my product recommendations are underwritten by anything that I sell or stand to gain from financially. Secondly, I don’t make a living building pedalboards (however I did from approx. 2007-2015). Any work you see here is done for the explicit purpose of teaching and educating on KZbin and the number of pedalboard projects I take on is directly in relationship to what I want to teach about for any particular month. We have an application process prospective "exemplars" that want to have their rig be the representative model for the channel, and typically only choose 1-2 of these individuals each month depending on time and scheduling. I'm not attempting to compete with anyone, and, in fact, I refer out to other pedalboard builders almost daily the majority of inquiries we get. All this is to say, I have no proverbial "dog in the fight" or predisposition to sell a product or switcher or withhold "props" from anyone. If I'm asked a question, I'll do my best to objectively make a recommendation. I will recommend what I believe to be the best product(s) for any particular pedalboard build given the circumstance. For this reason, you will see a variety of brands of switchers and products used on my channel from RJM, to Boss, to MusicomLab, etc. I also want to make clear that there is a distinction between not recommending something, compared to "discrediting" it as you've said. I can not recommend something and it can still be a fine product. I caution folks from making fallacious statements like this which presume malicious intent, or draw correlations that aren't there. Objectively, RJM Mastermind 10 and Musicom Lab MKV offer more than the G2 for a comparable price with a similar number of loops. Not only in terms of the software, options for programing, organization menu, but overall features - I'm not really sure that's debatable. But, also, (more subjectively I suppose), these aforementioned units also have more neutral buffers (my opinion), better parts (subjective), better relays (subjective), better jacks (subjective), and switches (subjective). I'd also say, and again subjectively, that the ability to update via USB (MusicomLab, RJM, Boss) instead of having to replace the chip "brain'" of the system (G2) is a huge plus. Again, quantifying "better" is hard, especially since certain parts and buffers can be of a sound the manufacturer is going for - so sometimes choices for something that doesn't spec out as well can be deliberate. Bottom line is, I have massive respect for Daniel. He's an asset to KZbin, and the guitar community. He's galvanized a generation of guitar players in a way that no one else has and I give him mega props for what he's accomplished. I can still like Daniel, respect him, and his work, and at the same time not recommend a product that he makes over one of his competitors. These things aren't mutually exclusive. Respectfully, Mason”

[@RileyTech]

Finally got to see one of your boards last night when Zap played at Crossroads. Looked clean and sounded great

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Amazing!!! He’s the best! I’m seeing uncle Z in a few days!

[@denden5150]

ES5 has a dedicated volume loop? Where? There are 5 loops plus a dedicated expression port I’m assuming can be used for a wah.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If I said that, I miss spoke, it does not have a dedicated volume like only the larger version, the ES8

[@Guitarman19853]

Are the ground loops created by switchers a concern? The boss switcher for sure shares ground among all of its loops so when a loop is on there's a big ground loop created. Unless you build every return cable so that it's grounded only on the pedal side. Have you ever experimented with this?

[@thesphericalguy9018]

There are no ground loops created that way. The most common issue with switchers and grounding is when they have two outputs without an isolation transformer.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Spherical guy is correct. This comes into play when you have multiple grounds in day your amp connections to AC when running a multi amp setup. It’s not like a power supply or something like that.

[@kosmicwizard]

No love for GigRig G2 or Quartermaster, Mason?

[@drloqutis2492]

I love these videos they are full of so much info.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you like them! Hope we earned you subscription!

[@gregsteffey1266]

Thanks for sharing this info. Have you tried a DC Pedals- 5 Channel Looper/switcher? It has Bluetooth so your Iphone or Ipad is your screen. Very easy to use, small footprint and it has some great features.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Greg Steffey I’ll have to check it out

[@peterjessop1878]

if we are looking at spec sheets here its seems to me that the only benefit of the RJM is the extra stereo outs and the only benefit of the Musicomlab is the isolated output. An isolated input is useful but not a massive selling point as there are plenty of them available and are cheap and I do struggle to see the benefit of 3 stereo loops. One maybe but not three out of the 7. I think only having a 500 K'ohm input impedance is a complete deal breaker for me too on the RJM as well as not having midi in/thru. The ES5 also has parallel routing and built in midi controlled envelopes and LFOS's, which I don't believe the others do, though I am happy to stand corrected on that. As I live in the UK, ES5/8 and then the Gigrig G2 would be my choices, the other two you picked just don't offer value for money due to import duties etc.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I’m with ya. I think the ES-8 is undoubtedly the best value switcher out there and has a lot of great options. They’re well built for the money and have an amazing interface and software. I think the big drawback for me is the buffers are not amazing. But the spec on input and output impedance is about the same as the GigRig ones, 1M input, 1K output. I can’t speak to the composition of the buffer difference, but they spec out very similarly.

[@tomfoolery2082]

Did a lil diggin n it seems the empress buffer i hav , the input impedance is 1m and the output impedance is over 500ohm . I think that should cover it. Lol thx

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I think their stereo buffer is a little bit lower, like 100 ohms, but double check that. I still prefer the Mesa Boogie.

[@billstarrjr.3249]

Love how you cover every aspect. thank you!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Glad you like them!

[@nicksburson1]

Head up from a es-5 user great unit but the buffer isn’t great.. so totally agree with Mason

[@VertexEffectsInc]

🎸🎸🎸

[@andrewrwhitfield]

EFX-LE does allow series/parallel routing. 😊

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Andrew Whitfield We talked about it in a few comments down, and I agree it’s all the more reason to get this switcher! Thanks for watching!

[@andrewrwhitfield]

@@VertexEffectsInc All good. Sorry, didn't look that far down. All the best 😊

[@JayValorMusic]

Hey Mason! In this video you said the ideal output Impedence of a buffer is between 50-100ohms but in your buffer video you said 80-150. Which is it? Thanks!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Ideally as close to 0 as possible but anything below 150 ohms is going to be almost unintelligible.

[@JayValorMusic]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks man! You're the best!

[@9642SM7]

Your thoughts on the Carl Martin switcher that Tosin Abasi uses?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Is he still using it? It was cool for the time, but pretty primitive and large compared to today’s options. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad unit, just functionally obsolete compare what’s out there in 2019.

[@gloriouspeanut]

Something I don't see addressed: How would any of these switchers handle something like a stereo chorus with a mono input and stereo output? I assume the Boss you could maybe use two loops (one for each return), but are the others that support stereo loops able to handle a mono send/stereo return scenario?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Most of them have 2-3 stereo loops, this is no issue.

[@edwinpringle7342]

Don't like the gig rig??? It's a little expensive but it's bad ass IMO.

[@Duesy_Sam]

UPDATE: The MusicomLAB EFX-LE has a editor now.. check this page musicomlab.com/efx-le.htm

[@MrDavemiley]

My next switcher will be the RJM PBC . . the big one !

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yea buddy!!!!

[@GitarmanBob]

Thanks again for an informative video! Back to a buffer question. My pedalboard currently runs guitar->PB, PB->amp-in, amp FX Send->PB phase 2, and then PB phase 2->amp FX Return. (I am running modulation/delay/reverb in the amp FX loop.) Buffer #1 is first stop on PB (no fuzz). Got it. Is Buffer #2 from PB to amp-in (pre-amp), or used for the FX-Return line (final cable)? Or do I need a 3rd buffer, one for amp-in and another one for FX Return?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If you wanting to try a third buffer, you'd want it after the last pedal in the effects loop, going back to the return going back to the effects loop. If your effects loop is buffered, your send will likely be already low impedance so having a buffer up front won't do much good, and you'll also likely have a pedal on as soon as you leave the send from your effects loop.

[@wo1fjay]

Hey Mason, love your channel - have already learned a lot from watching. I was wondering if you've done any builds for amp-less setups? I have a Quilter Interblock 45 on my board running into an impulse response host so I can plug straight into a DI. Would love to see how you'd cater to this kind of setup on a build!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Wolfjay good call! That would be a fun build!

[@sqlb3rn]

Those Hosa TRS to dual TS cables by themselves don't work for stereo loops in my Effect Gizmo, because there is nothing inside the unit that converts the mono guitar signal into a stereo signal, and the cable adapter simply splits a stereo signal into dual mono... it does not duplicate a mono signal. If you plug it in and try to use it, the left side gain is at like 150% while the right side gain is only 50%. So I have to use an actual mono to stereo converter and I just happen to have a Boss LS-2 that I can use, so mono TS out into LS-2 then dual TS into TRS from LS-2 back into the Effect Gizmo loop. And then after that I my signal is split and I can use TRS to dual TS adapter in other loops. Spent a while troubleshooting and scratching my head on that one. Maybe the PBC 6/X actually sends a stereo output, but the older Effect Gizmo just literally sends out whatever you send in.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If it's the newest effects gizmo I think you have 3 stereo loops that can be separated to two mono loop via insert cable.

[@MyICONIC]

Looking for a Switching system and Im using stereo pedals only and in a setup of three amps. I need atleast 4 stereo loops.

[@enighmen]

I think we're sharing the same need I'll be curious to know the answer :)

[@lazajam1]

thanks for doing this, great video!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

My pleasure

[@enighmen]

great excellent video verry informative I don't understand why this gets only 500 likes seriously I have two questions please : 1- whats the difference between musicom lab EFX and LE and ME ? 2- I'm in pink floyd tribute band I use up to 12 pedals plus a Strymon mobius and an eventide time factor I play in stereo and sometimes in wet/dry/wet right now I'm using a musicom lab EFX Mk III+ I'm really satisfied with it easy to use and no problem globally I don't like the noisy clicking footswitches and I want to run more than eight pedals in the switcher and may be insert my two (strymon mobius and the eventide time factor) in the switcher I'm considering to buy the Musicom lab EFX MKV do you have any other suggestion ? thanks for your reply

[@andrefugissawa7675]

What about using the Strymon Timeline as a output buffer? As far as I understand, it has a really low output, 100 Ohm if I not wrong. Cheers

[@VertexEffectsInc]

It’s decent for a pedal, but not equal to some of the stand alone buffers I mentioned. If you were in a tight squeeze something like a Bonafide Buffer in the TC tuner first and a Strymon last would be workable for a mono system - if you started to get into stereo or multiple split amps, it could become tricky.

[@SharpEdgeStandardOfficial]

Oh wow glad I watched this before pulling trigger on a switcher- most of my pedals are fuzz pedals I love FUZZ!! I have 4 different ones that currently run into the front of my AxeFx to use in conjunction with certain presets. But I want them off the floor and into pedal drawers in the rack so I guess I will need a switcher to keep on the board next to my MFC101. What switcher do I need

[@anguspotter-irwin7126]

Great video man! Can you do one on power supplies?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

angus potter-irwin Good call!

[@thelegendoftdis]

YAY for Musicom. I love my musicom switcher

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They’re great!

[@markhcollen]

"Differentiators" -- great word! Respect. ;)

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Brought my thesaurus that day.

[@markhcollen]

@@VertexEffectsInc you have a dinosaur that knows good words? 🤔😊

[@LTJR.]

@@markhcollen Gooder words!

[@angelomelitc]

Hello and thanks for the great analysis and explanation. Do you have an opinion on the G-2 from Daniel Steihard’s company; I think it’s called GigRig?

[@t75ftw]

I have the same question actually, I have noticed multiple times, that Dr. Mason successfully ignores GigRig products 🤷‍♂

[@VertexEffectsInc]

angelomelitc We were having this conversation a little further down the thread of comments, I’m going to copy and paste what I wrote there. Some of it is not applicable to this conversation, but should give you a little better understanding of why the G2 is not included: “To reiterate what I've said in other videos, many people love the G2, and love Daniel and his products. That's great! I'm grateful to Daniel for making the industry a better place than he found it (and continues to do so), and for creating enriching content for guitarists. He's an asset to the community undoubtedly. Now to your comment, I would like to clarify that I do not manufacture, nor sell pedalboards, pedalboard products, or accessories - including switchers. I manufacture guitar pedals, i.e. Vertex Effects, and this is an enrichment component that we're focusing on this year for our KZbin content. None of my product recommendations are underwritten by anything that I sell or stand to gain from financially. Secondly, I don’t make a living building pedalboards (however I did from approx. 2007-2015). Any work you see here is done for the explicit purpose of teaching and educating on KZbin and the number of pedalboard projects I take on is directly in relationship to what I want to teach about for any particular month. We have an application process prospective "exemplars" that want to have their rig be the representative model for the channel, and typically only choose 1-2 of these individuals each month depending on time and scheduling. I'm not attempting to compete with anyone, and, in fact, I refer out to other pedalboard builders almost daily the majority of inquiries we get. All this is to say, I have no proverbial "dog in the fight" or predisposition to sell a product or switcher or withhold "props" from anyone. If I'm asked a question, I'll do my best to objectively make a recommendation. I will recommend what I believe to be the best product(s) for any particular pedalboard build given the circumstance. For this reason, you will see a variety of brands of switchers and products used on my channel from RJM, to Boss, to MusicomLab, etc. I also want to make clear that there is a distinction between not recommending something, compared to "discrediting" it as you've said. I can not recommend something and it can still be a fine product. I caution folks from making fallacious statements like this which presume malicious intent, or draw correlations that aren't there. Objectively, RJM Mastermind 10 and Musicom Lab MKV offer more than the G2 for a comparable price with a similar number of loops. Not only in terms of the software, options for programing, organization menu, but overall features - I'm not really sure that's debatable. But, also, (more subjectively I suppose), these aforementioned units also have more neutral buffers (my opinion), better parts (subjective), better relays (subjective), better jacks (subjective), and switches (subjective). I'd also say, and again subjectively, that the ability to update via USB (MusicomLab, RJM, Boss) instead of having to replace the chip "brain'" of the system (G2) is a huge plus. Again, quantifying "better" is hard, especially since certain parts and buffers can be of a sound the manufacturer is going for - so sometimes choices for something that doesn't spec out as well can be deliberate. Bottom line is, I have massive respect for Daniel. He's an asset to KZbin, and the guitar community. He's galvanized a generation of guitar players in a way that no one else has and I give him mega props for what he's accomplished. I can still like Daniel, respect him, and his work, and at the same time not recommend a product that he makes over one of his competitors. These things aren't mutually exclusive. Respectfully, Mason”

[@mattgilbert7347]

I'm thinking of selling my ES-8 and getting a Disaster Area DPC-8EZ gen 3 to go with my DMC-3XL. The DA stuff seems easier to use and understand than the Boss. It's also a bit smaller. I'm not a young tech-head, and really don't care for anything that looks and feels like I'm using a damn computer. At 12:37 I screamed with horror, and that wasn't even the ES-8. You're right about that tiny screen, which is confusing enough anyway as well as being too small. The DA gear seems more intuitive. I started with an ES-5, not enough loops so I sold it. The Boss stuff is, probably, just too much tech for me. NB: what about the Voodoo Lab switchers, PX-8/PX-8+?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

The Boss is the easiest to use - if you’re struggling, happy to point you in the right direction

[@mattgilbert7347]

@@VertexEffectsInc One person's easy is another's "run to the hills, screaming". I think the DA might suit me. Thanks.

[@mattgilbert7347]

@@VertexEffectsInc The DA gear is really affordable here in Australia, unlike the others (especially RJM, I just looked at the prices!!) Even the Voodoo Laab switchers are $200-300 more expensive than a DPC-8EZ gen 3. We get gouged something terrible in this country.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

If you have the ES8 I think you have a good piece already. I don’t think you’ll find it much easier than Boss.

[@mattgilbert7347]

@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks. Idk, maybe complex switchers aren't for me. All I need are a few prests and a very simple MIDI setup. The ES-8 takes up so much space on my board. I took to the DMC-3XL really quickly, and I *hate* MIDI, whereas the ES-8 sat in a drawer for a year. Thanks for your advice and comments.

[@ryotaroaoki]

With the Musicom, are you able to run a bass amp and guitar amp at the same time, and have different loops running into each amp?

[@aaronboothe283]

I’d love to know your thoughts on the earthquaker devices swiss things.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Aaron Boothe I think somebody mentioned it below, I looked up the specs and gave my opinion, you might have to fish through a few comments

[@keepitshortnsweet]

I hope you'll do a comparison of the ES-8 and the upcoming MusicomLab MKVI later this year.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Not really sure how to compare them other than verbally.

[@kennyjolley8694]

Hey Mason, your info is very valuable, thank you for taking the time! Would the musicom be acceptable for a bass rig or does the 1M input impedance buffer make it not suitable? I know you’ve said that 2-5 is better. Do you know of any switcher that has that onboard?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Should be OK, depends on the bass amp you're using.

[@kennyjolley8694]

Intended to include that, it’s an Ampeg PF-20T, I tried to find a spec but it’s not listed and the schematic doesn’t offer much. Thank you so much for the response!

[@patrickmoore3672]

I have the Boss M3-3 but I am looking to upgrade to ES-5. My question is, what's the best switcher for someone who uses their effects loop on their amp. I'm one of those picky dudes that likes to run time based and modulation effects after my preamp. I hate the octopus of cables that go to and from my amp though. Plus it sucks that I have to use one of the loops in my switcher for my amp's preamp in order to use my effects that go into the front of the amp and still be able to switch them. That's why I went with the MS-3, because it has built in effects that don't take up a loop. Sucks I can't use my favorite pedals for those effects though.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I like the RJM PBC6x and the MusicomLab EFXLE

[@patrickmoore3672]

@@VertexEffectsInc What do you recommend for an interface type thingy for my board so all my cables come and go from one spot?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@patrickmoore3672 We show a few different passive and buffered interface tutorials on our channel, some as recently as a few weeks ago - check those out.

[@hansschepens]

An I ask one more question about buffers? What if I have a pedalboard and a rack (with pedals) can I put an input buffer on the pedalboard and an outputbuffer in the rack? Or do the both need an input and outputbuffer?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

What’s the routing look like? Defiantly still and I out buffer first, output buffer last. Tell me more!

[@hansschepens]

I have a smaller pedalboard with drivepedals (and a midicontroller) that starts with an input buffer. This pedalboard goes to a rack (via 18 feet cable) that has all the modulation, delay etc pedals (about 10 of them). From there it goes to the amp. Right now I have an input buffer on the board and an output buffer just before the amp.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I’d say buffer buffer to the rack and output buffer to the amp.

[@hansschepens]

Vertex Effects thanks man!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@hansschepens my pleasure!

[@jcollell]

Question about the Musicomlab or similar switcher. I want to run pedals into my amp's effects loop. I assume you have to use the volume loop for that? Can you still run your volume pedal through the loop while still using the 4 cable method? Are there any other effects I might also want to chain through the volume loop as well like a wah and whammy pedal? or would I want to keep those at the beginning of the signal chain going into the input jack of the switcher? Thank you for your insight.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Ordinarily you’d have the volume send as the output to the front of the amp and the fx send to the volume loop return and the main out (or iso out) as your output to the fx return. You’d probably want to put an output buffer to your output going to the front of amp in this scenario.

[@sd_design]

Great video Rig Doctor! Have a good weekend man! 😎 _p.s. will the _*_Vertex Effects_*_ T-Shirts be coming soon?_

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I’m still working with the graphic designer, I will keep you posted. Thanks as always for watching!

[@sd_design]

@@VertexEffectsInc cool!

[@jamesgoetz6100]

Awesome video! Question - what about pedals you dont want in the amp's effects loop? Can these switchers adjust where their loops are - in the amp's effects loop routing, or before hitting the amp's guitar input on the front end? If not, do you just route your wiring accordingly, dedicating one switcher loop out jack to the pedal(s) that then go to the amp's front end (with nothing returning back to that switcher-loop input jack?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You typically have to sacrifice a loop for the 4 Cable Method, but you can still make it work with a switcher. If the pedals in the loop are MIDI capable, you don't need to do this at all and can do all the changes via MIDI.

[@MaximillianNewman]

Any opinion on the EHX Super Switcher?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Haven't tested it yet.

[@davidschwartzguitar]

Great video. Currently building an ES-5 rig myself. I don't use long cable runs, yet, but in the event that I have to, would placing a clean boost such as the RC Booster after the ES-5 compensate for any potential signal loss?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Better than nothing but not ideal for this.

[@voodoodrew5458]

Question: so when you program a loop into these units, does it save only the signal/pedal pathway, or the signal pathway and the position of all the knobs at the time of saving?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

On MIDI pedals it can save the pedal combinations and pedal settings. On analog pedals without MIDI it can only recall the pedal combinations but can't change the settings on the pedal itself.

[@voodoodrew5458]

@@VertexEffectsInc thanks!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@voodoodrew5458 For sure!

[@jonhollis2534]

hey there. good review. I use the RJM and the buffer is switchable in and out. i use crazy analogman fuzz pedals and dont have a problem. i have it set so when i select a preset (or a straight loop ) with the analogman it kills the buffer at the start. and works great. youre not going to notice if you have a cable loss when a sunface kicks in! and anyhow there is a buffer on the out. and then when i go back to the clean it engages the buffer again. also i dont know when you did thise review but its actually a 11 mono loop switcher as all the stereo loops can be split to mono. i had the gig rig and the ES8 before this, and chose it over all the others. the software on the gig rig is non existent and the midi is beyonf bad!!! the es8 was great but not enough assigns to be able to customise it properly. i did consider the musicom but couldnt get my hands on one! anyhow very happy with the RJM. keep up the good work there.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You’re taking about the Mastermind 10, not the PBC6X. What I said was straight from Ron, not sure if or how this differs on the Mastermind 10 loop version, but he was very clear on the input buffer on this unit I spoke of here.

[@jonhollis2534]

@@VertexEffectsInc defo the 6x. you can switch in and out the buffer. you cant move its position though. and its now 11 loops in mono.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Jon Hollis You can switch positions of the output buffer based on where the insert is, however I think input buffer is stationary.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Jon Hollis In other words, my understanding from Ron, is that the output buffer is attached to the insert point, or you may not necessarily call it in I’ll put buffer depending on where you place that insert in relationship to the other pedals in the other five loops.

[@jonhollis2534]

@@VertexEffectsInc its the input buffer im talking about. you said it would be a problem with fuzz pedals. it isnt as you can switch that in and out on a preset basis. so i have an action set so that if i ever hit a loop with the fuzz in it it switches the input buffer off. the buffer on the insert is just because it is a buffered insert loop. and i doubt you would put the insert before a fuzz anyhow. but who knows! anyhow - you know what youre talking about. i use it on a daily basis and this is how i use it. its an amzaing piece of kit. as you say the editor software is so good.

[@FranklinD]

Hello. Do you (anyone) happen to know how the buffer in the ES5 is compared to the Boss MS3? I have the the MS-3 & I can't stand the buffer. The MS3 has a lot of great effects and features, but I really wish it didn't have the buffer. I "dealt with it" on my board (for gigging) because I loved the touch wah, but since I rarely use auto-wah I couldn't see sacrificing the tone. I was going to get ES5 but went for the MS3 at the last minute. Thanks!!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Frank DeNigris same buffer would be my guess. Specs look the same.

[@FranklinD]

Vertex Effects thanks! I forgot to mention the specs appear to be the same, but I’m not up to par on buffer types and impedance!!

[@TheDmonet]

The boss ms3 digitizes your entire signal. It is a multi effect with some switchable loops built in. The issue there isn't the buffers.

[@FranklinD]

TheDmonet that makes total sense thx 👍

[@yolerhymenstein3866]

Hey, just looking for some clarity as to whether or not I can plug regular mono pedals into the volume pedal loop. Information on the interwebz is a little unclear! Does anyone know?? Thanks.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Yes it’s just a normal loop

[@yolerhymenstein3866]

@@VertexEffectsInc Sweet! So I could conceivably put any pedal, like a fuzz for example, in the volume loop of the efx-le specifically? (Thanks for the reply btw)

[@Souldoubtrocks]

Hey mason. What a great video. Thank you. Question though. What is the typical solution if you have more pedals than loops? I have 12 on my board, all mono. Probably a newbie question. Sorry. I’m wanting to move to a switcher but don’t really want to lose any pedals. Do I simply run some outside the switcher?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Your MIDI controlled pedals don't need to occupy a loop. Check out Rhett Shull's first rig we built him and you can see the time based effects were being controlled by MIDI only and not in a loop and hardwired after the switcher. If you don't have MIDI controlled pedals you can expand your loops using something like the Voodoo Lab HEX to add 6 more loops to your rig and have it brought in/out via MIDI.

[@Souldoubtrocks]

@@VertexEffectsInc awesome. Thank you so much. Love your channel and your skilled work.

[@benjames2398]

Thanks for the informative video, im currently in the process of looking for a switcher so this was quite helpful. One thing I am still unclear on with regards to pedal switchers, is... are my pedals always on and the switcher simply switches from pedal to pedal, or does the switcher actually turn on and shut down specific pedals when used? Im wondering if i need to shut down every single pedal one by one at the end of a session or is there a more efficient way of doing this? Apologies if the question is amature-ish, i have never tried a switcher before. thanks!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

it can do both of those things, either/or

[@yolerhymenstein3866]

One more question, uncle Mason (very new to this whole switcher game). Do I have to use stereo pedals in the stereo loops, or can I use regular ol' pedals (and if so, do I need to do anything different, like use specific cables, etc.). Thanks :)

[@VertexEffectsInc]

No mono or stereo will work

[@federicograssetti8113]

The musicom lab can go parallel too

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Thank you for chiming in

[@wheresallthezombies]

I have a crocodile tail but I’m thinking of selling it and getting a boss es8.

[@wheresallthezombies]

@Rumy 73 probably not but the boss es8 allows you to move the order of the pedals between presets. i like putting my reverbs and delays in front of distortions sometimes for that big chaotic effect. But i also need them to be in the effects loop. I could just keep the crocodile tail for when im recording and want to try out different boosts overdrives and distortions (i like both pedal and amp distortion). Actually, i think i just talked myself into it. lol. just use the es8 for live and the crocodile tail for recording.

[@mattgilbert7347]

@@wheresallthezombies I'd keep the Croc. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

The OC10 was one of the best at the time - the Boss is more sophisticated for sure if you wanted to upgrade and also very easy to work with

[@wheresallthezombies]

Vertex Effects yeah, I’m just going to keep it for recording so I can cycle through different tones and see what I like best and get the es8 for live.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

wheresallthezombies good call

[@empathysgone96]

hello Tio Mason!!. always great info! what is your professional opinion regarding switchers reducing noise and improving tone? if you don't have many midi controlled pedals and are ok with "semi-dancing" around your pedal board to occasional engage a pedal, is it really worth the investment? thank you Uncle Mason!

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Switchers will help consolidate the signal path, and in most cases also reduce noise and loss from poor bypass switches and poor buffering - presuming you're using high quality input and output buffers in your system. It will really depend on your pedals and the quality of the bypass and the quality of the buffer. Most pedal buffers are poor, so the TB switcher or MIDI switcher usually improves noise and tone overall as a result. Unfortunately, there's not silver bullet on this one.

[@kostischaveles]

Thank you for this video. I have 10 pedals on my pedalboard. I just like to change pedal order without having to swap them. I already have 2 buffers so which one do you think would be appropriate for my case? I do not gig, I just compose music for licensing purposes and I always play around with my pedal order and settings until I’m happy. It would be nice if I could just change order of my pedals easily that’s all (you know unplug this drive then place the fuzz before it and so on). Thank you Mr Vertex. By the way I am about to start soldering my patch cables (2319-sp500) thanks to you ❤️

[@VertexEffectsInc]

You need a dual buffer no matter what’s on the board. I’d you use a fuzz, just put it before the buffer, nothing else should change in terms of the buffer. Mesa Boogie Highwire would be ideal.

[@kostischaveles]

@@VertexEffectsInc thank you for your reply!!! maybe my English is not the best but my question was about switchers no buffers. Anyway thank you!

[@ElectricAirStudios]

This was awesome!!! Thank you Mason. Quick questions tho, do you stand by these choices even a year later? Are there any new switchers you are excited about that are worth checking out?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

What else has released subsequently?

[@ghostofborsalino2752]

@@VertexEffectsInc there’s the new G3 set ups from Gigrig

[@VertexEffectsInc]

@@ghostofborsalino2752 It's not here in the USA yet...once it's here we can re-evaluate with the new products out now.

[@julianagudelo8228]

hello, in an easy answer what switch do you recommend the most or wich one you prefer : musicom lab or RJM

[@VertexEffectsInc]

They're both great! I own both!

[@rohadtanyad8908]

uncle mason, where can i try out your pedals? i may be interested in some of them, but i am not sure where to go test drive them.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Did you see our dealers list? vertexeffects.com/dealers - we also have a 30 day return policy on our web store and most of the larger dealers off no interest financing.

[@grega1207]

Hi Mason, I'm looking at switchers but not the fancy ones that are programmable, just a simple loop switcher (Quartermaster or equivalent) and then add a Saleh Quartz V3 to handle some MIDI duties. Is there any particular simple loop switchers than are better than others from a quality/functionality standpoint? Thanks.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Any with relays will be decent - I know voodoo lab makes some as well. Not sure how they compare and also One Control

[@grega1207]

@@VertexEffectsInc I've seen Voodoo in the stores and I know of the Quartermaster from TPS. Not sure if the others are worth looking at as I've seen some pretty scary ones on various websites! thanks for the reply

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Greg Adler I don’t think it’s something you can go wrong with, voodoo lab is very reputable

[@rontaylor9736]

G

[@thehyperioncalm]

If I'm using the Boss in the Helix loop do I need to be that concerned with the output impedance?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

No, because the Helix will still be the output buffer.

[@dubnessIII]

Did the mic on your shirt not work this day or something? Sounds like a camera mic to me.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

I put an extension cable on the lav, and it was dead on arrival from Guitar Center. So had to use the backup audio source. Sorry!

[@alexrusso334]

Question - If I run the buffers on the RJM off (using input 2 / not using the insert) and use an input and output buffer, should fix thelow input issue correct? Will it still cause problems with the switcher?

[@sqlb3rn]

I have the rackmount RJM Effects Gizmo with Mastermind GT10 midi foot controller and two Mini Amp Gizmos to control a 5153/Mark V stereo rig.

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Okie dokie

[@slickcross]

Rig doc I need help: Loop 8 / Strymon effects through effects loop sound quality drop: NEED HELP. Here is the issue. All loops in picture are working (even the Strymon block: all 3 Strymon pedals are going to loop 8 in mono). When I turned on loop 8 I noticed a difference in tone and quality so I started trouble shooting. 1. Did the 4 cable method mentioned in the ES-8 manual to have the all 3 Strymon pedals going through the effects loop of my amp and also ran loop 8 in front of my amp and the sound quality still drops when loop 8 is activated whether in the effects loop or in front of my amp. 2. Tested patch cables. I used George L solderless cables to patch everything up. I tested all cables connected to all Strymon pedals and I replaced 3 of them. The hum reduced a little but sound quality is still bad 3. I ran the Strymon pedals outside of the ES-8 straight into the effects loop of my amp (Blackstar HT-60) and ran all other pedals in front of the amp using the es-8 and sound quality still dropped 4. Next test it to run all pedals outside of the ES-8. All the other 7 loops sound good running through the ES-8. Its just when loop 8 is activated with the Strymon pedals, that's where i noticed a difference of sound quality. I have the Strymons in mono in loop 8, buffer input and output off. I have no idea what to do. Any suggestions???

[@MrRadialdrift]

Does the drop occur if you run the strymon loop in another patch/loop?

[@slickcross]

@@MrRadialdrift I will try that and find out.

[@Duesy_Sam]

Quick question: So which buffer doI need for the pbc 6x?

[@VertexEffectsInc]

Depends if everything is wired into the switcher or not.