The Terrible Power of Bad Endings

They can't keep getting away with this.
As usual, all footage is borrowed from other channels. Links below:
Shin Megami Tensei 5 Gameplay Trailer:
• Shin Megami Tensei V -...
Soul Hackers 2 Announce Trailer:
• Soul Hackers 2 - Offic...
Soul Matrix Footage:
• Saizo's Soul Matrix 4F...
Soul Hackers 2 Final Boss:
• Soul Hackers 2 - Final...
Soul Hackers 2 Bad Ending:
• Soul Hackers 2 - Bad E...
Soul Hackers 2 True Ending
• Soul Hackers 2 - True ...
Bayonetta 3 Opening:
• Bayonetta 3 - Opening ...
Bayonetta 3 Chapter 1:
• Bayonetta 3 - Chapter ...
Bayonetta 3 Chapter 6:
• Bayonetta 3 - Chapter ...
Bayonetta 3 Chapter 7:
• Bayonetta 3 - Chapter ...
Bayonetta 3 Final Chapter:
• Bayonetta 3 - Final Bo...
All Infernal Final Forms:
• Bayonetta 3 - All Infe...
French Bayo Fight:
• Bayonetta 3 - Boss Fre...
Jeanne's Spy Action:
• Bayonetta 3: Jeanne's ...
Jeanne's Death:
• Bayonetta 3 - Jeanne's...
Bayonetta 3 Jeanne Witch Trials:
• Bayonetta 3: Witch Tri...
Bayonetta Origins Finale:
• Bayonetta Origins: Cer...
Jeanne's Tale Cutscenes:
• Bayonetta Origins: Jea...
Jeanne's Tale Playthrough:
• Full Secret Jeanne Sto...

[@ThrillingDuck]

Ok, so I mentioned multiple times throughout the video that Bayo 3's ending itself and what makes it so bad has been discussed to death on KZbin, which is why I didn't go into the nitty gritty of it here. However, since the comment calling me out for just making sweeping claims without proof currently has the most likes, let me address it: 1) Literally 99% of the main cast dies, including multiple fan favorites like Bayonetta and Jeanne. 2) Luka randomly gets Faerie Werewolf powers and suddenly becomes super important and gets shipped with Bayonetta at the very end, despite them having basically no screen time together in Bayo 3 OR Bayo 2. 3) Despite how immensely powerful Umbra witches are and the insane God-killing feats we've seen them pull off, and despite the number of times we've seen them employ a "spider sense" to avoid surprise attacks that come from behind, Jeanne gets killed by a paraplegic in a fishbowl by being literally stabbed in the back. 4) Every single time there is a power escalation during the finale, or some big new source of backup shows up (i.e. the spirits of all of the Alt Bayos are freed, Bayo 1 and Bayo 2 show up and fight alongside Bayo 3, then fuse into Bayo 3), Singularity just shrugs it off. But then when stupid fucking Werewolf Luca shows up, THAT'S the magic bullet needed to kill him apparently. 5) Bayonetta dies the exact same way Jeanne died at the beginning of Bayo 2, but this is for real you guys for some reason. 6) After not getting nearly enough screen time and next to no actual character or even skill growth, Viola ends up taking up the mantle of "Bayonetta," complete with the name being bequeathed to her by some other dead Bayonetta who is neither her mother from the prologue, nor the one we played the bulk of the game as. This passing of the torch is completely unearned - Viola had like 3 playable chapters and this was her first game. I hope that clears things up for all the baby geniuses for whom this is somehow the first video they've seen calling out Bayo 3's ending, even though I started the video by telling them to play the game first and this is a tiny channel, so statistically speaking there's no way KZbin recommended it to you before videos from larger channels who discussed this stuff at length :)

[@ThrillingDuck]

Oh yeah, in addition to Jeanne's death by stab making no sense given her skillset and powers, Bayonetta herself literally ALSO gets stabbed through the gut by Werewolf Luca like one chapter prior and SHRUGS IT OFF.

[@AdHocWholius]

Something I find particularly offensive is not even how the plot tries to poorly justify Violet being the 'new bayonetta' despite being a weird Ichigo Kurosaki of 1/2 human with Fae ancestry, 1/2 umbra witch and lumen sage mix, but how her actual character design fails in almost every way to communicate any relationship whatsoever with both of her parents. Obviously you have the shirt, but there's no visual information to even suggest that she's the daughter of Bayonetta. She doesn't share motifs, aesthetics, or even basic resemblance to her own parents. It's a baffling choice as to why she looks like a Scottish punk rocker, and frankly one that undermines the story in a big way.

[@Hunter7Studios]

Wow this is the most simplified version of all the terrible issues with Bayo 3. It’s so unfortunate since the combat is very fun and unique, and they went with this trash of a story. It would have been fine if the 2 prior games properly led up to the conclusion Kamiya wanted us to have… BUT IT DIDN’T. Even if you don’t support Bayo x Jeanne, it’s still more reasonable than being with Luka. Hell it makes more sense for her to just continue being the independent woman she is than to be with that idiot. Not to mention, the 3rd installment was the perfect time to really support the 1st two games. Dive into the lore more beyond the Salem Witch Trials, explore Bayo’s Lumen sage side. Imagine not only demon masquerade but angel masquerade 👀?! Could have expanded storylines (what happened to Loki after 2), character development with the ALREADY EXISTING characters (who is Rodin really? What is Enzo like when around family?), there’s just so much more useful and impactful things they could have done… and instead they left us with this bs 😢

[@otakuthegreat]

They did have scenes in one and two you are just misremembering my dude and a lot of the fake fans ignore this (not calling you a fake fan but still hope that clears it up)

[@ThrillingDuck]

@@otakuthegreat Who had scenes? Bayo and Luca?

[@jesustyronechrist2330]

Just like how a good twist recontextualizes the entire story for you, a bad ending can do the same.

[@TigoODonnell]

Mass Effect 3 is the pinnacle of how devastating a bad ending can be. To this day the franchise nor BioWare have been able to recover from how bad it truly was.

[@Sextus70]

Even the "extended" endings, although they brought some improvement (it wasn't so difficult to improve such bad endings anyways lol), were not enough to fix the disappointment most had with the franchise since then. It's sad how a lazy or unsatisfying ending can ruin the perception of fictional universes that were almost perfect until that point.

[@dragonhitman1071]

Andromeda made me slightly appreciate 3s ending.

[@sainttan]

It so bad they made a sequel. Does that count as irony? I also like ME Andromeda, despite the problems I wish EA didn't screwed Bioware with there unreasonable demands. Did you know they force the team to use a new graphics engine despite they are 50 to 70% done? What's worse they didn't get to test drive it and was forced to rush the game unfinished. What I'm saying is, if this ME sequel with Shepherd, I hope EA to go in corner and stop ruining Bioware.

[@dragonhitman1071]

@@sainttan honestly bioware screwed themselves on that one. They gave andromeda to a team that hadn't been anywhere near the first three. Also had devs who were sj motivated.

[@Sextus70]

@Dragon Hitman I agree. They had a good opportunity to redeem themselves with Andromeda and make people dismiss the ME 3 endings as just a minor setback in the franchise, but they failed due to their own decisions. We will have to see if the recently announced sequel (which is being worked on supposedly by veteran Bioware developers) will clean its name and bring it back to its former glory.

[@SweaterPuppys]

The thing about bad endings is that it’s the perfect motivator to get the player to play better/faster but it has to be done right. Having the player feel bad for not doing something monotonous is definitely not how you go about it

[@Hawkatana]

While I agree that Kamiya needs an intervention, he's also the one person in the games industry least-likely to accept one. If his behaviour (and recently Platinum Games' as a whole) is any indication, he's too stubborn & pig-headed to admit he made a bad decision. Even when he "admitted" how bad Bayo 3's ending was, he framed it around how it was a "failure of communication" instead of the utter bullshit it was and avoided responsibility for what we can only assume is *his* fuck-up.

[@CrimsonJewel]

Bayonetta 3's plot was so sudden. We just suddenly got Homunculi, Futuristic Jeff Bezos, and Viola, with little time for explanation and storytelling. I think Bayonetta 3 wouldn't have flopped so badly if they just gave room for useful information. But, thankfully, I think Bayonetta: Origins saved it. It gave us the missing pieces that Bayonetta 3 was lacking. But, still regarding Origins, if we were to backtrack on the series, we could find small details that shows us how everything is connected, even explaining how Luka became a Depressed Emo Werewolf Uwu.

[@jickboi308]

@@CrimsonJewel this is also why I feel origins realistically should have happened before 3 in terms of game release. Because then we’d understand probably a lot of these things once we got to 3. Story would still suck but it’d probably make more sense

[@otakuthegreat]

Nah Kamiya is fine he does not need that and the ending was good bittersweet but good and it was only a "failure of communication" cause of the foolish fake fans that saw things that wasn't there.

[@RedDusk369]

This has made me think Kamiya leaving Devil May Cry might have been the best thing to happen to the series. Who knows if the series would be as great as it is now if it was kept in Kamiya's possession. Glad Itsuno has avoided the pits that Kamiya has fallen into. Sure Kamiya has created the blue prints for the series and we are glad for that but after seeing Bayonetta 3, It made me think maybe he might not have taken care of it as well as Itsuno has.

[@Mario-us5xm]

@@RedDusk369 People say Kamiya created the blueprint for DMC but they forget that the DMC they know and love isn't really Kamiya's, it's Itsuno's. People remember and love the wacky and crazy Dante, not the brooding badass hero. They LOVE Vergil but he had no character until Itsuno's DMC 3. They love characters like Lady and Trish but everyone cringes at how Kamiya made Dante make out with a girl that looks exactly like his dead mother. Kamiya had the concept, but everyone else reimagined the series to where it is today.

[@DarkMaker75]

Special mention to The 3rd Birthday, for having an ending so bad that it retroactively makes an okay game (though a bad follow-up to Parasite Eve 1 & 2) into a abysmal game that killed its franchise by literally making the player kill its protagonist.

[@ShooberTimber]

3rd Birthday was so bad that the author who owns the rights to PE, Hideaki Sena, explicitly forbid Square Enix from ever using the IP ever again as he despised it THAT much. After playing through the game & seeing how they handled the plot, I certainly agree with him lol.

[@fearanger1]

@@ShooberTimber Oh wait, THAT'S why we get no more Parasite Eve?? No yeah, that's completely understandable. I can't imagine lending an IP to an adaptation only to have its legacy end in absurdly creepy and messed up bullshit.

[@dragonkyn20]

@@ShooberTimber That was in reference to PE2, not The 3rd Birthday, though I wouldn't blame Sena for feeling that way. It's the big reason why 3rd Birthday isn't called Parasite Eve 3 due to his dislike of 2.

[@behzadmirmozaffari2563]

Oh God! Why did you make me remember that? It makes me physically ill when I remember what they've done to the PE franchise.

[@Mike14264]

Oh, that one. Literally Parasite Eve: Other Aya, as in, the "Metroid: Other M" of Parasite Eve. It's one a those meta games that feels so wrong to play through, especially after knowing how it ends, and the meta part of it is pretty much just spitting on the players' faces. I'm not a Parasite Eve fan, but I really wanna check out the first two games, they look hella dope. I do not, however, want to even approach the third one more than necessary.

[@ItsKy99]

The ending of Bayonetta 3 sucks & completely feels like a slap in the face to anyone who has been a fan of this franchise. One of the most soul sucking finales I’ve ever experienced.

[@tevineleven11]

I haven't even touched the game since i beaten after the ending

[@vadandrumist1670]

If they wanted to fix things either they go the DMC2 route and ignore it from then on, or reboot the series. Unfortunately the spin-off means those options are unlikely to be taken.

[@dragonhitman1071]

Couldn't bring myself to touch it again. Instead I went back to bayo 2.

[@Faereola]

@@dragonhitman1071 ONG bayo 2 was top tier out of all the bayo games (bayo 1 in it's own category cus it's the og obvi)

[@dragonhitman1071]

@@Faereola yup, love bayo 2 the most, but 1 isn't far behind. Both are amazing. 3 rubbed me wrong out the gate.

[@Tony4You]

Couldn't agree more for Soul Hackers 2 man. Another game that comes to mind for me is Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth having the proper ending gated behind one of the most convoluted series of steps I've ever seen. Great video!

[@ThrillingDuck]

Thanks a lot man. Love your channel!

[@RizalBoon]

In my opinion, if you want to give players a bad/bittersweet ending, it's better to have a multiple ending + a good one ready as well. It will help give player choices and the game studio will have more choice should they want make a more continuation of the universe. For example, we have one of Drakengard ending expanded and have Nier as a result, but player can at least have other endings as their headcanon ending if they didn't like it.

[@andrewgreenwood9068]

Either that or it should be fulfilling in some other way. For example Xenoblade 3s ending is incredibly sad but it works because of how it relates to the games themes.

[@NebLleb]

Yeah, in Drakengard, we have Ending A, which provides a bittersweet resolution to Caim's plight and leads to the direct sequel Drakengard 2, and Ending E, which provides a totally insane homage to The End of Evangelion and an ending where both the Watcher Queen and Caim perish on Earth, which wound up being used as the basis for the lore of Nier Gestalt/Replicant, another adult-oriented JRPG by the same director as Drakengard 1. But we also have other endings between the two that you can choose between as your "definitive" conclusion, all bitter and tragic in their own way. When you have multiple endings, the power of a bad conclusion can be nullified, and anything can happen if you as a developer choose which ending to follow off on in a sequel/spin-off/prequel/whatever and provide different outcomes that players can choose from depending on their preference.

[@RosesChrist]

I true ended Soul Hackers 2 first playthrough, and I still felt nothing. The endings itself were so abrupt, and Figue herself being the final villain was thematically important yet at the same time story 100'ing those three's matrixes felt like a horrible way to show everyone's resolve, all for an payoff in the final fight. Getting the good ending, might've still left a sour tang in your mouth. Getting it only make you realize the endings are still just an messy wessy situation.

[@therealjaystone2344]

Proves why Atlus’ spin-offs but persona are all an afterthought

[@kannyboy1847]

​@@therealjaystone2344Uhhhh no? Soul Hackers 2 is the odd one out, Megaten spin offs are usually great like Digital Devil Saga, Devil Survivor, Devil Summoner etc. Just cuz we got one bad one now doesn't erase all the good ones before it.

[@therealjaystone2344]

@@kannyboy1847 I mean as of on sales, they never sell well because of little marketing

[@snuggie1849]

​@@therealjaystone2344 to be fair the series would be very hard to market well especially in the west due to video games being the devil stigma. Hilariously people thought pkmn was satanic but if they saw mega ten xD

[@jungkookslefttoenail]

Also Persona, despite being under the MegaTen umbrella, has been diverging from what makes MegaTen-it's lighter and easier to digest since P3 (still does have very megaten concepts but you know the demons are differently presented w/ a literal high school student simulator and a dating game) and that's what makes it more marketable than, say, Devil Survivor, DemiKids, heck even the Jack Frost games, fucking mainline SMT, and Dx2. It just so happens to appeal to a broader range of people. A niche audience will be a 50/50 way to tank sales but that does not make the games under it a bad one. Also I might want to add, the OG Soul Hackers is actually fucking good (mostly gameplay-wise) as much as the previous Bayo games were too. And not justifying the clusterfuck that is Bayo 3 but can attest that it has more decent combat/gameplay mechanic integrations attributed to the series than SH2 did.

[@r.p.7174]

Bayo 3's ending reminds me of how angry everyone was (myself included) seeing what No More Heroes 3 did to Henry. They just completely changed an established character, killed him off unceramoniously, and moved on like nothing happened!

[@ThrillingDuck]

Another beloved rival character! Unbelievable. It’s like an epidemic.

[@TigoODonnell]

He isn’t dead as he kills Travis and Travis ends up fighting him with his family in the end. And I’m gonna actually defend the change of Henry with the game’s themes.

[@tunebeat3809]

@@ThrillingDuck At this point, it's hard to find companies that don't want to spite their actual customers.

[@str8apem88]

Henry's not dead though.

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@TigoODonnell alright, do it. defend Henry's massive change in character.

[@Rognik]

So this is more about endings that are bad than just a "bad ending". Because an optional bad ending is different from one that people don't like.

[@k.g3349]

As a bayo fan through and through, the 3rd entry's ending gutted me to the point that I pretty much just acknowledge the first 2 entries in my mind

[@MarkNinjastormLamot]

Hard agree. Bayo 3 had some fun ideas but the story and how they treated legacy characters were terrible

[@uria3679]

@@MarkNinjastormLamot and what’s worse is that there are people who like what they did with the characters in Bayo 3, they now think that Platinum Games are one of the only developers that have the guts to kill a gay character

[@jickboi308]

It also doesn’t help that kamiya calls anyone who misunderstood a poorly conveyed story an idiot. If they wanted us to see the story as they all were brought back to life when bayo defeated singularity and that somehow bayo herself isn’t dead anymore? (This was confirmed in the proper artbook for 3 by developers being confused as to how she was still alive) they should have made that more visually obvious to the player bayo’s watch was destroyed before she died so reasonably, anyone who’s played 2 knows she can’t be saved at that point without her watch but y’know, screw the pre-established lore. I would say most high level players, at least ones I’ve talked to and know, actually love the gameplay/combat and the big set pieces, a lot of us tho would prefer streamlining things a bit, I want demon slave back but again, streamlined a bit, it’s not difficult to use by any means, it’s intuitive but certain nitty gritty things like time ranks need to be fixed so people can still feel like they can freestyle and still get a pure plat. I really loved Jeanne’s side chapter stuff, it was one of the big highlights for me, do wish she was playable in main chapters and had some costumes tho.

[@ThrillingDuck]

See. my thing with Kamiya saying stuff like "Bayo's alive guys, it's so obvious!" is that 1) No, it's not obvious lol, but also 2) why did you give Viola her name??? That was the final nail in the coffin that RLY made me say "holy shit, they're just DONE with Cereza." If that sequence hadn't been there, my assumption would have been that Bayo4 would start with Viola setting out to give her the same treatment Bayo gave to Jeanne in Bayo2. But having Viola replace Bayo even in name conveys something VERY specific. Also pleasantly surprised to hear that some more serious Bayo players liked 3's gameplay. One of the arguments I've heard against the set pieces from hardcore fans is that they like to pure plat every chapter, but set pieces force them to master new one-off gameplay styles. I completely understand this argument of course, and if that's how I enjoyed these games then I'd share the issue. I'm just not a score chaser, so I can enjoy the variety without the implications it has on pure platting chapters.

[@jickboi308]

@@ThrillingDuck yeah viola just accepting bayonetta bugs me, especially when her whole thing was wanting to be seen as herself more or less and to be called by her name. The whole kitty thing and her song in general with her wanting to be heard. It makes no sense realistically.

[@uria3679]

and what’s worse is that there are people who like what they did with the characters in Bayo 3, they now think that Platinum Games are one of the only developers that have the guts to kill a gay character

[@xxtz2007xx]

@@ThrillingDuck I think the thing a lot of people actively choose to ignore about the ending is, ironically, Luka; he still has Strider's powers and was taken to Inferno; chances are high that he's keeping Cereza from being absorbed there and Rodin specifically references speaking to them both in the epilogue.

[@CrystalWings12]

@@uria3679 Why did I saw the same exact comments from yours like twice? Sure you can still have your opinion, just... don't spam it.

[@jamalhartley5863]

It's funny when I replay Bayonetta 3 I also avoid those last level cutscenes. It's straight character assassination honestly. I don't even care about Bayonetta Origins. It doesn't help Kamiya was like "I'd need like four games to explain the ending" Like Kamiya, bruh, that means it's not a good ending! This latest game only felt like a doubling down on the decisions they take in the narrative. I'm not about it. Whe

[@ma.2089]

Kamiya seemed to have pulled a Kingdom hearts…? That shouldn’t be something to imitate lol

[@uria3679]

and what’s worse is that there are people who like what they did with the characters in Bayo 3, they now think that Platinum Games are one of the only developers that have the guts to kill a gay character

[@SoMiSongbird]

@@uria3679 except the game has no gay characters and never had

[@Chaos-vm7cy]

@M A. Kingdom Hearts didn't had character assassination nor did it kill off it's main characters (atleast not the way Bayo3's ending did)

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@Chaos-vm7cy "Allow me to introduce myself." -Xehanort the walking retcon

[@jorgiessss]

Jeanne and Cereza are my girls! Kamiya really screwed with Jeanne (even though he says She's his favorite witch) I know girl could've moth within when the old man stabbed her from behind. It's so out of character for her

[@bobjones4469]

I don't play the series but reading through the summary of the story, THIS I can understand why people would be upset, doing this to a fan-favorite character. Everything else about the outrage is kinda meh.

[@Faereola]

Honestly thooo like c'mon gurl pick up the pace, got the reaction time of a sim with their stove on fire

[@uria3679]

@@bobjones4469 and what’s worse is that there are people who like what they did with the characters in Bayo 3, they now think that Platinum Games are one of the only developers that have the guts to kill a gay character

[@joshuajefferson3504]

​@@uria3679 what g@y characters ?

[@sunfeatherX3]

@@joshuajefferson3504ha! Yeah 😞

[@yuch4eve]

I feel like recently theres shitload of media where the writers tried to flex their non existent creative muscles by killing off important characters which just made the audience lose any sense of investment in the story 😬

[@tunebeat3809]

That, and the writers want to spite their actual customers.

[@3redstreeter256]

I hated the soul matrix so much, when I beat the third one (Saizo’s I think) I literally fell to the ground in celebration not because I had completed a great challenge but because I now realized I never needed to go back to the Soul Matrix ever again

[@Seynomi]

From some comments I realize that I was not the only one who hated the fact that Bayontta 3 said that Bayo1 and Bayo2 are different, But for me Bayo1 and Bayo2 are the same character and Bayo3 is a variant

[@cynthiasoolihua2410]

Great video, and as a diehard Bayonetta fangirl I literally couldn't be bothered to replay Bayo3 almost at all specifically because the ending was so vulgar to me. Like it was moment after moment of fuck you's. ESPECIALLY Viola becoming """""Bayonetta"""""" when her very design opposes the core aesthetic of the series which is hyper femininity. I haven't played Lost Demon either because I just cannot bring myself to care about the new direction Kamiya has decided for the series (Like how is Bayonetta #2 not Bayonetta #1 Kamiya? For what reason would you change a perfectly fine duology?) What's most interesting to me about this video is the laziness and lack of listening comprehension of the people who're complaining and criticising that you didn't bring up why Bayo3 is so bad in your video.......... after repeatedly stating it's been discussed to death on KZbin already. It takes like 5 seconds to type "Bayonetta ending was bad" in the search bar......

[@ThrillingDuck]

Thanks a lot! And legit, separating Bayo 1 and 2 into different characters was completely whack. They even form a time loop where Balder's actions at the end of 2 as he's being sent back into the past create the events that transpire in 1, complete with Bayo 2 ending by flashing the Bayo 1 title screen. How could Kamiya decide these are now different people after that???

[@JohtoJonnyYT]

Even with Bayonetta 1 and 2 (and 3) being separated into different universes they still acknowledge that similar experiences happened with all of them. Bayo 2 Bayo was shown to have gone through Bayo 1 and even have that hairstyle and all (flashback sequence in one of the chapters) and Bayo 3 has Aesir cards. We still pretty much saw her experiences in order according to how each one lived it

[@JohtoJonnyYT]

Note: but by no means am I justifying the terrible writing and conveyance of plot points. They did a REALLY bad job explaining things in 3. You really have to pay attention to subtle visuals and read all the logs

[@OriginalGameteer]

I will say as someone who played and didn't like 3, while Lost Demon is definitely a radically different direction than the main series, i still think it's a great game. Thankfully very little of 3s nonsense made it into the game (even the fae were mentioned far back in 1), so its very easy to just see it as 1/2s bayo just as a kid and ignore the multiversal stuff 3 went and threw in

[@cynthiasoolihua2410]

@@JohtoJonnyYT hey Jonny I love your videos! But yeah, either the story is awful or its conveyed awfully which is super unfortunate. It's so frustrating because the Bayonetta series is one of if not the only good female representation in media that doesn't also totally de-sexualise them so that hurts all the more :^(

[@nylonswordsman]

You can pull off bad endings where (Spoilers for Persona 3 and Cyberpunk: Edgerunners) The main character or entire main cast dies, you just have to do it REALLY well.

[@dragonhitman1071]

Bayonetta 3 didn't have a bad end it just had a bad story and ending.

[@ИльяКоптюк-з3ж]

16:30 Because you are.The fate of Jeanne as the fate of the Umber Witch is cruel. Don't you know the main idea of B1 "Don't be afraid of your fate, get up, open your eyes and find your truth" - The words of Jeanne. And it's also a new line because the Left Eye woke up earlier than in B1.

[@Thedrewster9194]

I absolutely HATE that bayonetta from 1 and 2 are SEPARATE characters. Like it completely takes you out of it now when you back and play 2 because it’s not the same bayo as 1. Sure they say they have had “extremely similar stories and lives” in the lore, but who cares. The simple fact that bayo 1 and 2 are different characters are ridiculous. Just my opinion

[@ThrillingDuck]

Also kinda ruins the time loop that Balder exists within for the first 2 games.

[@Thedrewster9194]

@@ThrillingDuck OMG great point. I didn’t even think of that. So are there 2 seperate baldurs then? Does him going back create a timeline split which means that’s a different bayonetta? Is it the same bayo but there’s just another bayo w the exact same thing happening? There’s so much to think about when it really shouldn’t be that complex and convoluted. 1 and 2 should all be the same

[@ThrillingDuck]

@@Thedrewster9194 Lol I'm like, so did Bayo 2 Bayo LOOK like Bayo 1 Bayo during her version of Bayo 1's events? Or did she experience Bayo 1's events but always look like Bayo 2 Bayo? And then the inversion for Bayo 1 Bayo. Did she not get a makeover for her version of Bayo 2's events? Or did she experience them in her Bayo 1 look? Kamiya PLZ

[@theghostwiththemost789]

The ending is the most important part of any story. No matter how good an experience is, a bad ending can leave a bad taste in your mouth and make you not want to return to it. The worst ending I’ve ever seen in a video game is paper Mario the origami king. I despise the ending to that game. It’s revealed that the reason the main villain of the game wanted to commit mass genocide, committed murder, committed attempted murder on his sister and mind control the thousands of people against their will was because his dad wrote on him, and he didn’t even bother to read what it said Also, Olivia’s wish is so stupid. She wishes that all of the origami her brother folded would be undone, which includes her. The problem with that wish is that it ignores the hundreds of people that die during the game. Every enemy that you fight in origami king is being mind controlled against their will by Olly. Mario killed a ton of innocent people on his way to stop Olly and the game just chooses to ignore that. And the only thing Olivia’s wish actually does is save somebody who is kidnapped on a weekly basis, fix a castle and kill herself. And Olivia’s “sacrifice” is stupid, because it was completely avoidable if she had thought about what wish she was gonna make for more than two seconds What’s even stupider is the 1000 cranes technique. Something that was not mentioned at all during the entire game until the ending. Apparently, if you fold 1000 cranes, you are granted a wish. You’re telling me nobody has ever taken advantage of this before? Not Bowser? Not Dimentio? Nobody? Olivia doesn’t even fold 1000 cranes to get her wish. She only folds one. That defeats the entire purpose of the 1000 cranes technique in the first place. But ignoring that wouldn’t a way better wish for Olivia to have made would’ve been that after her brother folded her, he turned good. That way she would still be alive, her brother wouldn’t commit mass genocide and none of the terrible things that happened in the game would’ve happened. Bobby would even would still be alive. You could even have Kamek and Bowser jr actually sacrifice themselves and die in hotfoot crater, because their deaths would be undone. I suppose some people would have a problem with this being a “it was all just a dream type” ending but compared to the ending we got I think that’s 1000 times better Oh and the cherry on top of all of it is that the final boss is really anticlimactic and lame. What makes it suck even more is that the build up to the final boss is so good but as soon as you enter Ollys throne room everything goes downhill

[@ThrillingDuck]

Hard agree with absolutely all of this. Origami King in general was super underwhelming for me, and Olly's motivation retroactively ruined his character. I would literally have preferred he just remain a narcissistic megalomaniac. Plenty of Mario's best baddies are just hammy villains. Funnily enough, the 1000 Cranes thing is actually a relatively well-known folklore/urban legend thing in Japan, which is why they didn't explain it or hint at it at all, but this is the west. So it needed more acknowledgement than that random lore bomb at the end for sure. I was just lucky I knew what they were talking about from random weeb cultural osmosis lol.

[@theghostwiththemost789]

@@ThrillingDuck I didn’t know the 1000 cranes thing was a real thing. That’s pretty cool, Although putting that in paper Mario still doesn’t make that much sense. I think the only fitting backstory they could’ve given Olly is if he was actually abused by his dad. And I mean really abused. Not that he wrote on me bullshit. If Olly was actually physically and mentally abused by his dad, that would actually explain his racism and why he’s so messed up. Obviously that’s really dark for a Mario game but it would’ve made him at the very least a very memorable antagonist. I’m sure there are ways they could’ve gotten around it by may be having the abuse to be implied. Anything would’ve been better than the he wrote on me thing I like origami king . I have problems with it (the battle system and shy guys finish last for a few examples) but for the most part, I think it’s a decent game (although I like color splash better) but the ending is so bad that I have told people not to buy the game because of how bad the ending is. The ending tainted the game for me. Just as much if not more then the bad battle system did. As you can tell, I care a lot about good storytelling😅

[@GomerJ]

Man I feel bad I skipped a ton of the segments because I haven’t seen or finished them but at the same time they act as great recommendations because this is one of those tropes I’m fascinated by despite how devastating it feels to watch/experience.

[@joeytabora1052]

I was a bit confused during the bayonetta section since there wasn't an overview of the ending like in the soul hackers section, but I have no reason not to believe your claim that its been talked to death, so I just sort of went along with it and assumed that I just happened to be on the wrong part of youtube to have encountered any videos about it. From the description of it that you give in the comments though, uhhhhh wow. That really *is* a fantastically bad ending.

[@minicooper1293]

Bayonetta 3‘s ending hurt me, but not in the good way. I don‘t even want to play Bayonetta Origins at this point

[@ThrillingDuck]

I loved Origins but I totally get that.

[@iamtheonewhoasked8062]

Same honestly bayo 3 is making it very hard for me to take that chance but I've heard its good

[@ThrillingDuck]

​@@iamtheonewhoasked8062 I mean it's obviously very different from a mainline entry tonally and mechanically, but it manages to feel authentic to the Bayoverse and it was absolutely my kind of game, for whatever that's worth coming from someone who prefers Bayo 3's gameplay to the first 2. The finale of the main game also genuinely surprised me - I thought it was extremely memorable and well-done.

[@thedewritos]

they literally 'Rey Skywalkered' bayonetta lmao

[@jayd.aanimationsandstuff5736]

It's for this reason why I don't like TLoU2. You're doing so much to reach point B, and when you get there, you don't even get to eat the cake that you've been waiting for, and afterwards there are other things that happen that are just an even bigger slap in the face. If there's going to be a bad ending, there has to be room for a good ending as well as to not leave the players dissatisfied

[@meowy2k]

THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIIIIIS

[@angels123454]

You know how terrible Bayo and Luca`s love story is, when Bayo show her heart to everyone, but him...

[@FrostyMts]

Literally flirts with him the first time they speak in Bayo 1.

[@mizark3]

Totally agree with bad endings ruining an experience, but I have an example of one that I can kind of justify. Resident Evil Revelations 2, similar to Soul Hackers 2, has a method to unlock the good/true end. Spoilers for it if you haven't played it, but you have to use the partner mechanic in-game during a scripted cutscene/event, and have the character work their way through their past trauma. It is an excellent way to meld both gameplay and the characters you have been spending time with. It wouldn't have the same impact if you just immediately had a game over by doing the 'bad end' route, or the character did the good end automatically in the cutscene. It is somewhat a problem, because you have to be willing to replay the game or look up what to do. However, the timesink to get the true end is hardly worth mentioning, because even a full second playthrough is encouraged through the mutually exclusive branching paths, difficulties, and different main game variant modes to try out. It is also tonally consistent with what is set up, unlike say, Mass Effect 3 where working with the Reapers end up being 2/4 ending's goal, and killing many allies along the way being another 1/4. Rev2 also has such an amazing improvement with the good/true end, that it improves the experience even further when you can see how much worse it could have been.

[@ThrillingDuck]

Oh God, I played Rev 2 blind and stumbled into the bad ending. However, after looking up the good ending requirements I was not half as pissed off, because the requirement makes complete narrative sense, and doesn't even force you to replay the entire thing. You can just redo the [SPOILER] boss fight which is practically its own short chapter, and then the final stage.

[@jvts8916]

A unique case happened to me in The Caligula Effect Overdose. Basically, while the battles where so easy you couldn't even manage to use the unique prediction mechanic outside late bosses, the presentation was way worse than its competitor (though given said competitor was Persona 5, it was a high bar) and the game was prone to crashing, I kept playing because the story was that engaging. The thing that genuinely broke my suspension of disbelief was when it crashed during the post-credit scene. That was the last straw and made me say "no, I'm not facing a three phase final boss again just for a few more text messages". At least the sequel is good on all fronts, to the point that I found it to be my game of that year. As a side note, long before playing the sequel I looked up the Overdose exclusive alternate ending and I was not impressed. You obey the mastermind's orders and destroy the real world. The problem is that this is completely at odds with every side story you've done up to that point including the characters you interact with when following the mastermind's orders, which has you help them come to terms with their past trauma until they wind up deciding to return to the real world. It doesn't help that the game hypes up the mastermind as a genius despite the fact that they don't even try to give you some time after their plan almost indirectly killed you to tell you to join or die, which also makes me think that even if the protag were a closet nihilist he'd have absolutely no in-character reason to do that

[@Demi-kid]

Oh I wasn't the only one getting the bad ending for not having enough point?! I did every quest and messed around with the mechanics.

[@krazmaster2581]

I’ve had my own problems with badly done endings as well, also with SMT actually. I feel absolutely nothing towards any of the 4 endings in SMT 5 mainly due to their flawed representatives, besides one of them I don’t have a strong enough connection to any of them to warrant me caring about what they want. not to mention the requirements to get the true ending (which to this day I still have no clue) have no baring on what happens and above all else, throwing in something so important that it’s basically the cause of everything at the last minute give me my least favourite batch of endings in a game ever.

[@ThrillingDuck]

I agree with all of this, but I wasn't AS bothered by SMT5's endings because the story at large was such an underbaked afterthought, that I had literally no expectations for the ending lol. It wasn't a divergence in quality from the rest of the story, it was just a continuation of it.

[@elivcdxv1852]

I feel this to a degree, I definitely felt them more than the 'bad' endings in 4 and Apocalypse, since I could convincingly see where Dazai was coming from with his call for order, and- legitimately can't remember his name, but I know he shares it with a character from Devil Survivor 2-'s call for Chaos, but yeah. I think someone like Sahori being the representative for Chaos, or something adjacent to it would've worked. Law is just bringing back the way YHVH had em' going in that particular game. Chaos is just having the Gods in control of their own stuff again. 'Neutral' is just wanting the world to be only for Humanity. I really didn't care for any of those, but if Sahori was allowed to become a rep, that probably would've been it if she ended up having an odd-out of the way quest chain to complete to even attempt her ending, even if a lot of stuff went haywire with it, her possibly having the idea that Demons and Humanity could continue to co-exist because it's beneficial to others seems plausible. It's reasonably flawed since, of course those who can control Demons would be higher up than people who couldn't, but there's also the reach of her ending just making everyone complete and a Nahobino- It ends up like the Chaos route, inevitably, but it's kinda unknown what the difference of everyone having the same level playing field would do, in the long run. I definitely didn't go into SMT5 expecting Persona levels of time to get to know the cast, but more time to interact with them under the guise of the world not falling apart at the seams could've done wonders for actually getting people to care about the characters, the only reason I really remember Dazai is because I thought Abdiel was being a legitimately manipulative 'classic' religious figure with him, and retroactively thought it was really nice when she had been doing what she could to help the person that would complete her despite it being wrong, they mirrored each other to a degree and I could see what they were going for, and I dug it. Chaos-Rep definitely could've used something like a leading position of power at the school, or anywhere really beyond just being 'in' on what was going on to a degree and having a COMP because Satan said so (Not the actual sentiment, but-) It just feels underwhelming to an extreme amount when despite seeing less of him overall, the Director also tries to sell you on it with no real prior scenes to really make anyone go 'I could potentially get behind that'. The endings feel more dumped in, and man do I actually hate Dio-Dazai's design change, would've actually kept caring about his arc if he maintained the prior 'good-two-shoes' aspect and instead rolled with it while still doing 'the wrong thing' to do the right thing, If the game had an extra level that took time to depict parts of the worlds they sought to create to give better insight, I would've loved to see Dazai go with the Ends justify the means route and do whatever he could to actually see 'Gods' will through while still maintaining some sort of holy-high ground to everything he did. Also, Tao gets so close to being a character it actually hurts, could've benefitted from all sides if she got an actual ending, even if it was just the world for humanity.

[@wulf2863]

Good thing I never played a smt game for the story

[@onetruesavior69]

SMT franchise is unable to make any Law representative feel good simply because they represent Abrahamic religions in a setting dominated by Gnosticism/Anti-Abrahamic beliefs/Japanese Nationalism. As for Neutral, it's the "golden child" of the series as they get everything good + always are the good guys. Chaos? It is lucky as it still gets some good stuff + it's edgy enough for Reddit Devs to love it.

[@LTDLetsPlays]

@@onetruesavior69 honestly considering how much they enjoy trashing law I have no idea why they still try to keep it

[@joehayes8795]

Someone saw the ending to Soul Hackers 2? I thought for sure everyone quit halfway through like I did

[@ThrillingDuck]

Lol

[@vinegar4556]

I gave Soul Hackers 2 a miss because the more Persona-esque art style completely sucked out everything that made SH1 memorable. Seems that the art style was the least of this game's problems.

[@doncheadlegaming7521]

As a long time Bayo enjoyer, man this story fucking blows. Gameplay is fun, but why did they have to do Jeanne like that? I can understand killing Bayonetta, but Jeanne??? Who wrote this?! They’d have to be insane enough to block people who ask questions in English on Twi- oh.

[@ShinmegamiPersona]

Chrono cross: and I choose to ignore that

[@russellhattal3328]

Bayonetta 3’s ending was so bad that it retroactively ruined the whole series for me. I dropped it entirely.

[@math9172]

I just wanted to say : Don't feel so guilty about loving a ton of elements of Bayonetta 3's gameplay. Yes it is very different than the first two games, but at the same time gameplay-wise a lot of decisions are logical evolutions, and the core gameplay remains. Many bayo 1 and 2 fans adore Demon Slave and the constant set pieces of Bayo 3. I mean the deviations and gameplay changes were already a thing in the first two games, they just went harder on them this time. The only ones who hate Bayo 3's gameplay are the absolute purist who also hate Bayo 2's gameplay. Also, Platinium may still backpedal on Bayo 3's nightmare of a story, because Bayonetta : Origins was very clearly developped parallel de Bayo 3, so they couldn't retcon things after seeing the public's opinion I'm guessing.

[@ThrillingDuck]

Lol I sure hope so. And good to know about Demon Slave! Because I never, ever, wanna see that mechanic leave lol. I vaguely recall some discourse in the community around the game’s initial release that fans weren’t taking well to the set pieces because of their impact on hunting pure platinums (which again as you said, was an issue in the first two entries as well and they just went harder here), and while that’s a completely understandable complaint, it just doesn’t apply to me lol.

[@xana3961]

Yeah, Bayonetta 3's ending was entirely disrespectful. I am fully aware Jaunne's character was always about accepting fate, rather than defying it, but I really don't care. When a death is just as cheap as Superman's death in Batman vs Superman, its a massive slap in the face to your audience if you were attempting to make people invested in the game you're playing. And if you weren't attempting to invest people in the character who died, why the fuck did you make the character? Earn your character's deaths. Otherwise, your sequel may not sell well.

[@ThrillingDuck]

Love this. Agreed on all counts.

[@BAIGAMING]

Yeah, Soul Hackers has the worst bad ending out of any SMT game except maybe the White Ending in SMT4 and the regular law/chaos endings in SMT4a. SH2 has the worst ending mechanics in any SMT because in most SMT games you only get such a bad ending when you purposely make a bad choice like siding with the villain, but having all characters' soul levels in SH2 be high can be a strict requirement and no other game did that... This isn't directly on topic, but you should definitely play through the original Soul Hackers if you haven't, it's such a fun game. It was made in the 90's but had an English release for the 3DS in 2013. It predicted what VR would become, yeah VR was always a well-known concept back then too but it felt so fun, it had a VR space where you'd chat with NPCs who were using VR to relax from their stressful school or job etc and for some reason every NPC in the game has a illustrated portrait and most are unique. It shows a team of hacker's in the 90's, it feels like a cheesy 90's movie but it does it well and the storyline and characters are really good surprisingly, I definitely cared more about SH1 characters over SH1 characters, no weird matrix dungeons either you actually get a haunted house and a processor manufacturing facility dungeons just to name a few. The gameplay is pure dungeon crawling but you actually tackle your team's conflicts such as Lunch's relationship with his dad and more. The vision quests in SH1 are phenomenal, you actually experience memories of really interesting characters, some of them are in criminal organizations who betray others or even get betrayed, and it genuinely feels scary. Technically SH1 is a sequel to Devil Summoner, which also had amazing similar themes where the protagonist takes control of a devil summoner's body, gaining access to a seedy underground society.

[@ThrillingDuck]

Dontchu worry, I know me some Soul Hackers 1 :) Not my personal favorite but a rly unique story and atmosphere and some cool one-off elements. Plus Nemissa is SMT best girl.

[@Mr.Smiley_J]

My wife and I love the Bayonetta series and waited on pins and needles for 3's release. She couldn't wait for me to play through the game, so she watched a full cutscene playthrough on KZbin. I figured that it wouldn't bother me too much, Bayonetta is about the action and fun set pieces, right? After seeing that ending...I tried, but I can't bring myself to even get started. I just don't feel like doing that to poor Bayonetta and Jeanne.

[@Ribbonnanza]

As the only person to give Soul Hackers 2 a low score before launch and got harassed for it, it's nice to know I'm not a crazy person for thinking it was bad. I wish it WAS a good game, but I didn't enjoy it for a multitude of reasons.

[@lightbluesquid]

Sorry to hear you had to deal with the harassment regarding your score of SH2. Some people REAAAAAAAALLY take the scores so seriously to the point of bullying and harassment and honestly, the people who harassed you over this are clearly miserable. But hey! You be you with your opinions. Nobody can force you to bend the knee to idiots who think they can force you to do what they want you to do.

[@MetalSam25]

The only "bad" ending I accept is the one from Dead Space 3 because it's so ambiguous. Also I completely agree with everything you said.

[@thesplatooanima8231]

When i think about bad Endings, it's those "Villain Won/Hero couldn't Acchieve Goal" Endings, not Endings with a general poor Quality...

[@Dani-jh1eu]

As someone who loved bayo 1 and 2, the third game is still my favorite and the best game. Everything is crazy and the weapons and demons in bayo 3 a so much better then the hands and feet combos. Also funny thing is Luka in bayo 3 is kind of kamiya's self insert which makes the ending even worse-

[@dc7981]

I don’t like the summoning cause it makes bayo seem weak but aside from that the gameplay is still fun

[@Dani-jh1eu]

@@dc7981 I'm pretty sure Demon slave is only somthing only the most powerful umbran witches can do. At least that's what I understood from the game. But faur enough

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@Dani-jh1eu I'd love to know where and when she got that ability.

[@Z3RO5286]

Bad endings in media can be good if it has a purpose or something that has built up to it. If you're gonna have it for the sake of being different other than a good happy ending but actually satisfying to the conclusion then it's probably not the best idea. It would be a big middle finger to the journey all for the main characters we care and love to be cucked in the end

[@nvisss917]

Bayo 3 had so much potential if only the ending wasnt like a punch to the face, like we did all that just for bayonetta to die? And now we have Viola? wtfffff😭😭😭😭😭

[@Pepperboy5849]

Like the vid I wish you went into more detail about what you actually disliked about Bayos ending like soul hackers Some more descriptions about the ending and footage would’ve helped get your point across Keep up the good work

[@qwmx]

I feel they did Viola dirty. She's meant to be the new bayonetta, but all we saw in the entire game was someone in the "baby" stages of character development where we have just met her and are beginning to get to know her as Viola, and then she receives that title, which feels very undeserved from my point of view. Yes, it's sweet that Viola got the rights to be called "Bayonetta", after passing the test, but that's all there is, it just feels empty from my perspective as an audience. She helps save the world with her mum and she passes her mum's test, but she herself as a character feels like she's still undefined. If they have given Viola more time to develop, maybe through spin-off games featuring her and then have the title handed off to her, I think the name pass off will feel much more emotionally impacting as we as the audience haven't just seen Viola grow as a person, but we, through Cereza, are handing over that special title, which we associate with our favourite amnesiac heroine and the perseverance and strength she possesses, to Viola. This title might be a simple family memento from mother to daughter in the game lore, but for the audience (at least to me) it is a passing of a torch and we are expected to see Viola be a new "Bayonetta" in future games. Titles in this case meant to represent spiritual successors and the next carrier of the spirit (of feat, strength, memories etc.) of which the name holds.

[@qwmx]

I did this comment before reading other comments, but keeping it here, for the explanation of the significance of the passing of the title from the game lore perspective and audience perspective. Even if that bayonetta was Viola's mother, it still feels undeserved.

[@ThrillingDuck]

Yeah, I genuinely really liked Viola, but this was not the way to hand off the title. And also the title didn't need to be handed off in the first place. Let her just be her own character!

[@qwmx]

@@ThrillingDuck EXACTLY!

[@Vitorfeitosa1]

Let's not even say How awful viola gameplay feels, compared to Bayonetta's, she's undevelop in every possible way

[@mobtownamv]

Well I had the same issue. 70 hours in on hard mode, all the sidequest and dlc complete, at the final boss with 1 soul level 100 teammate... and my ps4 hard drive broke lol. I probably would have felt the same if I experienced the bad ending, but I just said screw it and watched it on KZbin. This video is actually my 1st time watching the bad ending lol.

[@haroldhoover9498]

As for the ending of Soul Hackers, it's actually relative. Sometimes you have to go through the most to get a satisfying outcome...🐉

[@TheTj334]

It’s crazy that DMC4 arguably did the passing of the torch better than Bayonetta 3

[@ИльяКоптюк-з3ж]

No, your game is Bayonetta 2. It is simple to the edge. And Hideki Kamiya has not been the head of this project for a long time. And as A FAN OF THE PURE PLATINUM TRILOGY, I say. "Playing Bayonetta for the sake of a story is like watching porn for the sake of a plot or eating at McDonald's for a healthy lunch" Jeanne and Cereza deserved a lot more. That's true Cereza and the lost demon sold well. And I hope that there will be no Viola and Luke in the sequel.

[@christopherbravo1813]

If Bayonetta's story isn't a significant part of the games, then why do the games place such great emphasis on the story?

[@ZorroVulpes]

I feel like studios don't care by the time they get to the end and figure most people don't get that far anyway, but I feel like a game's ending has a bigger impact on its reputation than most people realize.

[@G1ingy]

God dammnit did you have to spoil Ralph Breaks the Internet out of the blue without warning?!

[@ThrillingDuck]

I apologize, but it is years old bro. Which is like an eternity in internet time lol.

[@G1ingy]

@@ThrillingDuck It's years old? Goddammnit youtube why...

[@Neeta-san]

Yeah, think about every final fantasy endings ever, they all end in an ambiguous messy blob of convoluted plot where nothing is conclusive and nothing feels satisfying lol.

[@athorem]

I never understood the Soul Hackers 2 hate... but then again I did go into it knowing that there was a good and bad ending and how to get both. I imagine some people still don't know that the only ending they got was the bad one and so I can understand a bit of the hate in that case

[@ThrillingDuck]

I think most people dislike it cuz it's just kind of underwhelming all around, and the Soul Matrix absolutely demolishes the pacing. But like I said, if I hadn't been punished right at the very end, I would have had an 8/10 time with it. I am absolutely addicted to SMT combat though.

[@athorem]

@@ThrillingDuck Yeah it's an underwhelming game but not totally unsalvageable. Being kinda mediocre isn't deserving of intense hatred from a number of megaten people imo

[@PervertedNovaxc3]

I think another reason people dislike it is because it's sort of a step down from the original soul hackers. Especially in the dungeon department.

[@athorem]

@@PervertedNovaxc3 Agree about dungeons but if we're being real megaten fans overlook a *ton* of issues with the original Soul Hackers. The demon alignment system ruined a lot of the gameplay and just made it a hassle to deal with. I'd much rather have SH2 combat with sabbaths. Characters like Yu-ichi and Lunch were underdeveloped, and Six was just kind of unlikable. Story was ok but not amazing. Music was more varied than SH2 but the battle themes tended to be a bit weak. I really don't think SH2 stacks up as poorly to the original Soul Hackers as people are saying

[@deadweight4887]

Bayo 3 story is terrible. Everything about it, the plot structure, writing, characters, it all sucks. Kamiya turned this franchise into Kingdom Hearts with all this fairie stuff that is explained in a side game, dimensions, Arch-Eve and Arch-Adam bullshit. This game can't even commit to it's "grandiose" ideias. Imagine killing your main character all across the multiverse, having this sad montage that shows her trajectory from the previous games, only to undo it all minutes later because the franchise can't continue without the MC.

[@bernardosanchez3401]

for me, the worst part of Soul Hackers 2 is that 6 achievement are gatelocked behind a NG+ playtrough ... that wouldn't be so bad except that they sum 400 of the 1000G , also NG+ makes you redo the horrible soul matrix again with a whole new floor (even with the patch that speeds up Ringo running speed and battles) and while you have the compendium you don't start with your summons, unlike SMTV. so good luck if you get hit by a dark purple foe. Bayonetta 3 story so bad it burned all the flack it had with the west community, so good luck getting a Bayo4 green lighted Kamiya, lol at Japan developers (sans Intelligent Systems and maybe Artdink) that recoil at the idea of not having a very straight manly/lady protagonist (not mentioning the original horrible Viola parry system, that had to be fixed because some secret missions were almost unplayable)

[@christopherbravo1813]

Few things ruin entertainment more than shipping.

[@kimitohanahala8674]

This rant has made me appreciate fe6 more, the bad ending, half bad ending and the good true ending leaves a bad first impression to me since I think the requirements are ridiculous. But the thing with each ending is they're satisfying in their own right based on how much the player knowledge of the game, the thought of missing something because it's lock behind an in-game requirements and the fact the game's flow is in a one way of chapter by chapter story progression makes you want to load another save file and get frustrated again and this time is to save Idunn.

[@ancientgearsynchro]

Yeah, I'll be blunt, SMT has many good qualities and none of those are sidequests. You have Soul hackers 2 with the required ones...that they don't tell you. And then you have SMT4 Neutral route where you have to complete a bunch of side quests....that they don't tell you. Then there is SMT 3, where depending on if you count the Amala network and the 7 fiends, you can say has good side quests for a specific ending. And then you have the garbage that is Persona 4s side quest, which is a shame since Persona 3 FES already got it right the first time. P2 and SMT V is fine, I guess. Got problems with it, just not the side quests. its amazing how often they screw it up, despite all the experience.

[@bayondlara8363]

As long time bayonetta Fan the ending of bayonetta 3 didn’t bother me as much. Bayonetta 3 is my favourite of the series. The Charakter Design, the soundtrack, the gameplay and everything else is good. ( and the people that are saying like they didn’t want to go back to bayonetta 3 after they played the ending is so dramatic for me)

[@s18cyt]

Literally, Kamiya has said Cereza isn’t going anywhere and the new generation mention is clearly being cheeky about the next generation Nintendo hardware that might actually be able to handle their ideas

[@christopherbravo1813]

what is "everything else"?

[@jaydenkween1828]

What bothers me the most about Bayo 3 is that it actively betrays the ENTIRE desing philosophy of the series: "What does it mean for a woman to be truly in control?" In b1 and b2, Bayonetta is defined by the power to be fearless. She can wear anything she wants, no man is capable of hurting her. She can act as freely and express herself in any way she wants, no man is capable of oppressing her. She can have a moment of weakness or vulnerability, her umbram sister will never allow men to harm her. She will never rely on a man to assist her because she knows her power is enough to literally throw god into the sun. Every single one of those aspects is brutally stomped on by the b3 story. She can no longer be fearless and do as she pleases without being exploited for power in every universe by singularity. She is no longer allowed to be vulnerable since her sister is dead (resulting in her own death at the ending). She now HAS to rely on a man in order to finish a fight well below her power level. She now HAS to be seen as a romantic insterest for a man, after all, she's dying anyway, so might as well strip her away from the autonomy of rejecting Luka. It's not like that was an INTEGRAL part of her identity as an independ woman.

[@luxury-lavish]

I agree, she lost everything that defined her from the first 2 games, a sassy and powerful woman who is not afraid to expose herself or her emotions when she feels necessary that could easily destroy the earth with a snap of her fingers. In Bayo 1 and 2 she had some moments where she showed worry for those around her, but in 3? That whole concept is thrown out the window, she saw different versions of herself and her mother *slowly* getting killed and she just starred at them waiting to collect the weapons, or when she had the time to warn them about getting killed she just starts blasting her peashooters or say a plain "Get down!". 3 tries to take itself too seriously which at this point laughs in the faces of its old fanbase.

[@inplane9970]

A lot of people have expressed this sentiment and I cannot agree enough. Bayo is the definition of feminine agency. Someone who can be whoever the hell she wants and nobody can tell her otherwise, not even God(s). It's why she's so popular in LGBTQ+ spaces. She defines what it means to be in control of one's destiny. Only for Bayo 3 to turn around, spit and stomp all over this idea, and screw every long-term fan of the franchise over. It's to a point where I feel like Kamiya did this on purpose.

[@Machiroable]

"She will never rely on a man to assist her because she knows her power is enough to literally throw god into the sun." Dude, she literally needs the help of her father on later half of B1 and her father, a man, literally goes on equal grounds against her.

[@bobjones4469]

So she was the generic woke "bad ass" masculine "I don't need no man" feminists icon but they realized how ridiculous that was and dialed it back a bit in 3 eh? Interesting, 3 might be worth playing.

[@jaydenkween1828]

@@bobjones4469 calling BAYONETTA of all characters "generic woke/masculine" is a testament of how you have NEVER once in your life touched anything remotely related to her. Stop trying to have an opinion out the ass for the sake of "owning the libs."

[@Mike14264]

Ok, when you said "bad endings", I thought you meant like, the bad ending in a game with multiple endings. So one a the games does have two endings, but damn, the bad ending might as well be the default ending, for all the trouble you have to get into to get the good one... and I also hate it when the things you have to do for completion have absolutely no connection to the events that lead to the final ending itself. It's just ridiculous when that happens.

[@randomcatname7792]

Record of Agarest War Zero has a good ending that you effectively absolutely need to follow a guide to achieve. Going after said ending means that you are remove most of your choice in this game where it has dating sim elements and your choices actually matter to story... A lot of people would say that this is a problem, I, on the other hand, choose to view this as the canon ending and see the good ending as a bonus. (Let's not talk about it one is obviously canon or not) If you are going to make a good ending ridiculous to achieve, make it non canon please. I *want* canon bad endings

[@krimsonkatt]

In my games I usually make the good ending canon, but also make some of the bad endings canon in alternate timelines. I also usually make the good ending the easiest to obtain and usually the canon one, with the "true ending" often being non-canon and a lot harder to obtain. Examples: Noel and the Tower of Doom: The game has 13 endings. One good ending which is the easiest to obtain, one "true ending" that is a lot harder to obtain, and 11 bad endings that you can get by dying in specific ways similar to an adventure game. Boundless Domain: The game has many endings. The easiest ending to obtain is the standard "good ending" which you can get at any time once you beat the games normal final boss and start the post-game. However, if you want the true ending you must complete the entirety of the post game and win against the final boss. If you lose against the true final boss or make certain wrong choices in the true final dungeon, you get the bad ending. Then once you start NG+ (which can be unlocked by getting any ending) you can do multiple different secret "alternate routes" once you start the post-game, some of them being the "Nightmare Route," "Death & Rebirth Route," and the "Golden Route." The Last Dragon's Elegy: The game has 24 endings numbered A to Z. The most canonical ending is Ending A which is the true ending, about as hard to obtain as the true ending in Hollow Knight without the essence grinding. Endings B through D are alternate endings that are semi-canon, not being canon to the main timeline but leading to important alternate continuities. All endings A through D unlock NG+ aka Chapter Select. Ending E is an epilogue and comes in a different form based on which of the endings from A to D you got. You get ending E alongside your respective ending for reaching 190% or higher map completion. (the game is a metroidvania) Endings F through W are all joke endings/non standard game overs obtained for doing something wrong or making a bad choice. For example, one ending requires leaving the opening area early in NG+ while another requires running out of time during the true final boss. Endings X, Y, and Z are all secret endings that have to do with complex timey-wimey situations and therefore are all canon, Ending Z being the true secret final ending that requires you do to almost everything beforehand and then sacrifice it all to reach the end that is MAJORLY important to the series lore.

[@AzureRoxe]

In Zero, the True End is EASIER than in the original.

[@randomcatname7792]

@@AzureRoxe oh probably, I used Zero because it's my favorite one and wanted people to see the name so maybe they'd play it lmao

[@AzureRoxe]

@@randomcatname7792 you made me check if they were on Steam and the original, zero and 2 are there, so i'm getting them when there's a nice sale for them.

[@randomcatname7792]

@@AzureRoxe WAIT THEY ARE?!! I guess I need to get them again too haha

[@Foxtrottingalong]

Bayo 3 is just a mess overall. Lots of great ideas, and concepts, but being haphazardly handled. Its a shame Bayo 3 had what seems to be a nightmare development cycle, as the art books and interviews paint a much different, and more cohesive game that we simply didn't get. I really do wonder what an open world bayonetta 3 wouldve been like if they couldve made it happen.

[@Heznoheznohezno]

I can find solace in the fact that at least bayonetta 3 opened up huge possibilities for the franchise and ended in kind of a cliff hanger thingy.

[@paulduchamp4736]

Bayonetta fan here. I could have put up with the general gameplay and how out of touch the game was with it's fanbase, even the garbage writing, but that ending was really the final nail in the coffin. B3 lied to the face of it's fans, promising a product that was wildly different from what fans expected (because of the literal two other entries), and then assassinated beloved characters both literally and figurativly to replace the main cast for a washed up, uninterresting character that supposedly appeal to younger audiences (why are children playing this game, idk). If the next bayo is a continuation of this shitshow, I'm officially done with what was my favorite franchise

[@dc7981]

They wanted to do a passing of the torch but decided to forget to develop the torch bearer

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

It's an M-rated series of all things, appealing to a "younger" audience shouldn't be a priority in the slightest

[@RedVanquish]

The action in Bayonetta 3 was actually quite fun. But the one thing that I hated the whole experience was Viola's writing. Her character was such a cringefest from the moment I heard her say "That idea had its hooks in me more powerfully than any anime or sci-fi novel." It was the most Gen-Z cringiest thing I have ever heard a fictional character say. And from that moment on I began to hate this character more and more. Then there was Jeanne. She had basically no really cool actiony chapter like Bayonetta's. Instead she was reduced to a background prop and the main character of a mini game series. Which the mini game thing was fun, but in no full capacity would I want that to be her only time in the spotlight. I wanted something like Bayonetta 1 where you could unlock her as a playable character. Same with Rodin, who is also mostly not present for the entirety of the game. Only there for the intro and he is also your shop keep like in every game. And then there was the cardinal sin that made me actively say "Fuck this game." The New Bayonetta scene at the very end. Where the game just kills off Jeanne, Bayonetta and Luka and makes Viola the new Bayonetta. A character I already hated from the first impressions I had of her, is now the new face of Bayonetta. I felt as angry and betrayed as I did when I played Borderlands 3. I only played through this game once. The ending is so vile and disgraceful that I cannot play it again.

[@floofzykitty5072]

No one can arrange an intervention for Kamiya because he keeps blocking all his therapists

[@FatWalterWhite69]

Unfunny furry

[@pyrosnineActual]

For me, it's when a bad ending nullifies all the players efforts to that point, all so there can be a sequel. it's okay if it's a prequel game, as the player knows they're playing doomed charcters, but stories like VEXX and others where the main character tries so hard, and goes so far, and in the end it doesn't even matter, and a plot twist ending ends with people dead, bad guy getting away, etc- all because the writers had this brilliant idea to set things up for the sequel. Cue bad ending killing any interest in making said sequel. STory permanently ends on a downer note.

[@ThrillingDuck]

They had to fall to lose it all.

[@math9172]

What's genuinely terrible about Bayo 3's ending (and even to a certain degree its overall story), is how it absolutely kills the hype. In the previous games, cutscenes were like pumping adrenaline directly into your brain, and granted, some set pieces and cutscenes in Bayo 3 do manage to do that. But sadly a majority of them either leave you unfazed, or worse just suck all the hype out of the **genuinely insanely great** gameplay. Because of the ending, I've played Bayo 3 *a lot less* than I would've without it. To this day I still have played the final werewolf Luka fight only twice because I couldn't stand the horribly written dialogue that plays for half of it. And again, the gameplay is fucking awesome. The environments and visuals are often really beautiful and impressive despite the switch's limitations, and the final fight on the FUCKING MOON was just peak Bayonetta. When it happened I thought "oh, at least wenre gonna get the usual epic wacky ass ending", and then I got hit by 50 cutscenes of Bayonetta being absolutely thrashed around and ridiculed, followed closely by her fucking death in the arms of a hobo-werewolf. The final nail of the coffin was forcing me to fight random evil-magic-bayonetta with Viola as an "epilogue". I just wanted it to end at this point. And yet, I can't emphasize enough how much the gameplay is truely revolutionary and well crafted.

[@ThrillingDuck]

So hard agree on absolutely all of this.

[@Windrider784]

Try playing Mundaun. If you fix any of the problems with the town at all, you die or get cursed. You literally just have to let the devil win to live.

[@ThrillingDuck]

Lol that sounds awful

[@StNerevar76]

You can save the girl, but changing history from decades ago isn't a good idea.

[@papertoad456]

Nothing is worse than a games ending being locked behind long and tedious side content.

[@TheBitishDragon]

Your sentiments are on point with alot of stuff I have played in recent years, KH3 both base and Remind version have endings that just made me wanna put the series down and not return, DMC5 was supposed to be the conclusion of the "Sons of Sparda" saga yet it just kinda side stepped that whole thing with just being another chapter ending with no real conclusion, going back abit later 2014 Lords of shadow 2 was supposed to be this "EPIC Finale" but went out with a "ooooo who knows what next....." there are others I could mention but its just the point Im trying to extend its that bad endings or endings that dont do what was promised by advetising or dev statements or even endings that go against the spirit of the naritive it came from tend to kill all desire to go back and re-play that naritive because you know whats coming at the end.

[@ThrillingDuck]

Man, I could rant about all the bad decisions made in Lords of Shadow 2 for hours.

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@ThrillingDuck you and me both.

[@Spicypuff]

Man I still remember when I got to the true ending of Farcry 5. Saying that I was pissed off is an understatement. Before I got to the ending I truly enjoyed my time with the game but that ending made everything I did for nothing. Even worse it gave many people the stupid idea that Joseph seed was in the right and excusing his action and how it's actually the players fault that Montana got nuked. Even though our player character wasn't the one who issued the arrest warrant in the first place. Thankfully what ended up saving the game for me wasn't Farcry new dawn, but Farcry 6s dlc where you play as Joseph seed. It showed that Joseph seed and his cult had they actually succeeded would've still failed and and the possibility that Joseph may have had some sort of psychosis instead of hearing the will of God. So it brings me some comfort to know that in the end, karma does get to Joseph and his cult regardless of the action of the player. Still that ending can go *FUCK* itself.

[@dgc12196]

Well, now knowing this I definitely made the right choice in asking for my money back and then going to spend that on a game I know would be good and that I'd love. It just absolutely pains me on just how badly they botched up Soul Hackers 2

[@uria3679]

To anyone who finds this: how do you feel about games like CoD Modern Warfare 2 and Postal 2

[@JRENZO10]

Is it bad that the reason I'm subbing to you is that I'm just enjoying hearing you yell

[@scolioreset]

Gameplay-wise, I can respect Bayonetta 3 and what it tried to accomplish. As a story, Bayonetta 3 is OtherM level bad. After the heck we've gone through regarding Balder aka the Masked Lumen and Bayo's true father, time-travel... and now a freaking multiverse, I think Platinum as a whole slapped us in the face with this ending. I can accept heroes dying and passing the torch... but doing it in such a lazy way has been common in most franchises because "breaking the expectations or subverting them" is now the norm in place of a proper build-up. A game that made me both laugh for all the antics with Cheshire (the cat, not Luka) and made me legitimately angry for how bad the story arc ended as it used not just Bayo from 3 but from the entire franchise including Rosa of all people, not allowing us to play Bayo 2 because Bayo 1 was forced in during the introduction and ending... WHY!? I knew something was up right there in the introduction. I don't care that Viola becomes Bayonetta and the next Umbra Witch. It's the way Cereza, Jeanne and Luka's stories ended. Not even Rodin had a role to play in this and he's always the best part in the narration and dialogues because he's just that entertaining. He gives away the new tri-gun weapons, talks about the multiverse and that's about it.

[@krimsonkatt]

In my games I usually make the good ending canon, but also make some of the bad endings canon in alternate timelines. I also usually make the good ending the easiest to obtain and usually the canon one, with the "true ending" often being non-canon and a lot harder to obtain. Examples: Noel and the Tower of Doom: The game has 13 endings. One good ending which is the easiest to obtain, one "true ending" that is a lot harder to obtain, and 11 bad endings that you can get by dying in specific ways similar to an adventure game. Boundless Domain: The game has many endings. The easiest ending to obtain is the standard "good ending" which you can get at any time once you beat the games normal final boss and start the post-game. However, if you want the true ending you must complete the entirety of the post game and win against the final boss. If you lose against the true final boss or make certain wrong choices in the true final dungeon, you get the bad ending. Then once you start NG+ (which can be unlocked by getting any ending) you can do multiple different secret "alternate routes" once you start the post-game, some of them being the "Nightmare Route," "Death & Rebirth Route," and the "Golden Route." The Last Dragon's Elegy: The game has 24 endings numbered A to Z. The most canonical ending is Ending A which is the true ending, about as hard to obtain as the true ending in Hollow Knight without the essence grinding. Endings B through D are alternate endings that are semi-canon, not being canon to the main timeline but leading to important alternate continuities. All endings A through D unlock NG+ aka Chapter Select. Ending E is an epilogue and comes in a different form based on which of the endings from A to D you got. You get ending E alongside your respective ending for reaching 190% or higher map completion. (the game is a metroidvania) Endings F through W are all joke endings/non standard game overs obtained for doing something wrong or making a bad choice. For example, one ending requires leaving the opening area early in NG+ while another requires running out of time during the true final boss. Endings X, Y, and Z are all secret endings that have to do with complex timey-wimey situations and therefore are all canon, Ending Z being the true secret final ending that requires you do to almost everything beforehand and then sacrifice it all to reach the end that is MAJORLY important to the series lore.

[@danebirbhaha7520]

Where can I find the games?

[@oliverpease6719]

My favorite is Nier Automata because THERE ARE SOOO MANY ENDINGS

[@lunatic0verlord10]

Kind of reminds me of how Inti Creates did it with the first Gunvolt game. The best ending is the canon one (even though it's still rather somber (Joule dies and Gunvolt is left broken after killing the one responsible (who was his mentor)), it's still better than the bad ending (where he just dies outright and nothing can stop his mentor's plans of extermination)), and the Luminous Avenger spinoffs derive from the bad ending.

[@krimsonkatt]

@@lunatic0verlord10 Yeah, sort of like that. But, ironically enough, from what we know now from Gunvolt 3 the bad ending of GV1 is actually PREFERABLE because no matter what Gunvolt has to die for the world to be saved. Gunvolt dies in every ending in GV3, because if Gunvolt or Asimov evolves and becomes a Primal Dragon they'll inevitably destroy the world. In the GV3 timeline Sumeragi is still around, the world is in chaos still, conflict between adepts and humans is still high even after the 50 year timeskip, and Gunvolt dies no matter what. In the Ix timeline Sumeragi is no more, 99% of everyone are adepts like in MHA removing the whole adept oppression thing, there is no threat of the primal dragons, Copen isn't an evil asshat anymore, and the world is basically a utopia. Because, remember, Copen could still be alive in the main timeline AND WOULD STILL BE EVIL and without Gunvolt around no one can stop him. I know Kiran is around, but there's no way Kirin could defeat Copen who's been training and preparing for his revenge for over 50 years. The world post-GV3 is basically screwed, unlike in the Ix timeline where Copen got a redemption arc off-screen and is now basically a dimension-traveling android Jesus. The only issue with the Ix timeline is the 100 years of Sumeragi Oppression and the genoside of regular humans/minos, but it the long run that's far preferable than the 99% chance of planetary annihilation.

[@lunatic0verlord10]

@@krimsonkatt I suppose what we need is a Copen game set after GV2. Because Copen's situation REALLY needs to be addressed.

[@WurmyBoi]

The Game I get this the most from is Azure Striker Gunvolt 3, stellar game with very cool gameplay like mega man on crack with a Devil may cry/Bayonetta scoring system that plays lyrical songs when you get high enough points, but the story of The game is just blatant character assassination of the title character (Gunvolt) and the ending just makes it 10 times worse. Good Video.

[@ThrillingDuck]

Thanks! And agreed, Gunvolt 3’s entire story is filled with weird decisions honestly.

[@matteste]

Though given that you mentioned SMT as a whole, SMTV could just as easily fit here as well given what mess of an ending it had to an already shaky plot. SMT as a whole has really been dropping the ball when it comes to plot in recent years.

[@ThrillingDuck]

I mentioned to someone else here that the reason I didn't bring up SMT5 in this vid is because the writing throughout was so barely existent that the endings were just a continuation of that quality haha. I had no expectations of them. The gameplay was already hard-carrying the experience for me.

[@matteste]

@@ThrillingDuck I was thinking more of just how tone deaf and nonsensical to so called "best" ending was with what little story there is and the effort you have to put into getting it.

[@ThrillingDuck]

@@matteste Gotcha, fair enough!

[@christopherbravo1813]

to be fair, SMT's writing was never "great" to begin with. heck, for every SMT game with a good story, there's at least two or three that are meh at best or SMT IV Apocalypse at worst. even then the "good" stories have plenty of issues-especially the ones that had extra content slapped onto them in rereleases.

[@paradoxicalnexus7246]

Well I may have not finished SH2 but at least I know I'm on track to getting the good ending. (Hopefully) I saw it had a bunch of terrible reviews and I've never played the first one but I still wanted to try it out.

[@Bye3000]

I genuinely suprised you didn't mention KH III.

[@ThrillingDuck]

Brother I did a whole 1 hour video on KH3 lol

[@dniwetamp]

"Do not fear your fate. Stand, Cereza. Stand and open your eyes. For with every truth, there is another one to be seen." - Jeanne in B1. Her accepting her fate in Origins is not out of character, she was never about defying fate

[@ThrillingDuck]

Hmm, that is interesting, but I still feel like it would be in-character for her not to take such a shitty death lying down. That's still a bizarrely defeatist attitude for someone like Jeanne.

[@mattewc14]

Her death in b3 is completely out of character and out of her shown skills and abilities. It was cheap forced shock factor.

[@LTDLetsPlays]

@@ThrillingDuck considering it’s from Japan it’s not that surprising

[@satoukazuma5928]

Wait till you discover about the attack on Titan ending, an ending to a series with a buildup of 10+ years so fucking bad that even the writer regrets writing it

[@ThrillingDuck]

Oh no...

[@WeaponsRemorse]

Soul eater the anime is amazing but the ending fucked the WHOLE series for me and many others

[@Ji99i3]

Some more bad endings! Home sweet home, dead space 3, asuras wrath!

[@justsomesimplenuclearbirbs4313]

Bad endings usually make players want to try harder and get better, but sometimes the bad ending is either a joke of an ending that shouldn't exist or is somehow a *better* outcome than the normal, true or good endings despite the implications that things may go to shit. Of course then we have bad endings that are poorly written and show very little signs of anyone on the writing staff actually knowing what they're doing. And then we have the bad endings that exist solely for the purpose of telling you that you're complete dogshit at video games, more specifically RPGs. The Hyperdimension Neptunia series is pretty notorious for this. The games with multiple endings will usually have some neutral/normal endings, a bad end that is so easy to get you might as well do that first and a good/true end that feels more like you're preforming a ritual rather than actually achieving something. Also, some entries in the series have roadblocks that force you into the normal/neutral endings, meaning your path to the good/true ending gets cut off prematurely and you're forced to basically speedrun the game again whilst also remembering to do *very* specific steps to achieve the good/true end.

[@MagGunDO17]

Conquest Ending Conquest Ending

[@_Ikelos]

You hate Bayo3 because of the obvious main love interest from the first game being fulfilled at the end with a (YUCK!) straight kiss (EW!). I hate Bayo3 because it's just not Bayonetta at all, from gameplay, to vibe, to visuals, to Viola, to multiverseslop/incoherent time travel. We are not the same.

[@ThrillingDuck]

You clearly didn’t pay very good attention to the video or read the pinned comment lol. You’re right - we are not the same.

[@ZannacrossG1]

Hey at least you had a bit more options to get the best Soul Hackers 2 ending...Persona 5 Royal did not hint at all you needed one guy's Social link to be maxed out to get the best ending...thus me not realizing till the very end I had to play the massively long RPG again to get the ending I bought the new version for in the first place...damn it Atlus.

[@thesosoartist4458]

Bayonetta 3's ending is Devil May Cry 5's ending, but the Nero equivalent SUCKS.

[@christopherbravo1813]

but Dante and Vergil are still alive.

[@thesosoartist4458]

@@christopherbravo1813 But they go to hell, making Nero step up to defend Earth. Dante even says that he's the reason they can go.

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@thesosoartist4458 yeah that was kinda bogus, but it's not exactly unprecedented considering that Dante let Nero beat up an old man in DMC 4

[@silly435]

as a bayo fan i hate 3s story so much. but its got good gameplay and platinum's games are about replayability. but also one detail about bayo 3s ending that I also missed out on and maybe you did too seeing as how you talk about jeanne's death being final , all the universes are implied to have been reset so going with this new direction of canon she's still...fine? she was still done dirty in the story like they did everyone, but maybe that detail might explain why some jeanne stuff came across as weird to you. not saying its a story detail I like or want to accept happened in the first place, but maybe it'll help understand something who knows lmfao. great vid btw.

[@ThrillingDuck]

Thanks! My question with that interpretation of the ending is: if everything got reset, then where are Bayo and Jeanne and why did Viola take up her name lol?

[@MySplatterhouse]

I gotta admit I did NOT like Bayo 3's ending everyone died save for Rodan, Viola and Enzo.

[@HeadHunter-mv2ht]

This goes beyond just video games, other forms of media suffer from this, take game of thrones and Star vs as examples.