The Titans' AFTERLIFE ILLUSION | Pyromancer Reacts to Xaxxas

[@So_Stupendous]

Incredible video! Exciting to see Pyro dig into it. Its so unfortunate, though, that 99.9% of the player base is entirely unaware of any of this... Its like a very small club were in. The wowluminati

[@memorize8020]

Xaxxas's video is absolutely incredible. It's been bugging me that I see so many people saying that Blizzard are "just now" starting to portray the Titans as not necessarily good guys, but it's been in the lore for years and years now. The most blatant example to me is the line from the Klaxxi that was "typo'd". "Your gods are not YOUR gods." That wasn't a typo, it was even voice acted that way. I really think one of the story writers that came in later misunderstood that line, so they "fixed" it into something that made more sense to them. Zero chance it was a typo, it was a not so subtle hint that while mortals may choose to serve the Titans, the Titans won't reciprocate or save them because the mortals are just tools to them. They serve a purpose and are discarded after, just like Zovaal discarded Denathrius.

[@skysong7526]

An interesting aspect of the "Allegory of the Cave" by Plato that is often overlooked is that, even if you crawl out of the cave into the "real world" you are still just in another illusion that is STILL not the truth. It's also one of the theories about the Matrix movies, which means Neo is still in another layer of the matrix. That's why, at the end of the third movie, he can use his matrix powers "outside" the matrix. I also have a theory that the reason Titan architecture looks so different in different places is because each of the Titans has a distinct architectural style which fits their individual thematic motif and different Titans were overseeing the building of specific facilities.

[@Chrallen06]

Been waiting for this! Xaxxas is a fantastic content creator! Would love to see a Pyro collab!!!

[@charlayned]

Oh yeah, that would be awesome!

[@Dadbot]

Pyro, is unique. He doesn’t mix with other opinions well. But he’s still dope and I like his take on things more than anyone else’s

[@TheJacob232]

Considering how quickly xaxxas responded inside Pyro's discord roughly an hour after this video responded and people started commenting on it

[@archmagealodi]

The production on these videos are amazing

[@YoungsterJoey151]

I definitely agree with you Pyro that this is exactly how people feel watching your videos. My mind gets blown by ideas you have and my own theories are often backed by your own which is just so vindicating.

[@Spreadsheet_Hero]

I'm only 30 minutes in, but man I just LOVE Pyro's earnest enthusiasm. I've been loving your lore videos in the last few months, and I'm SO curious to see how it pans out into the Worldsoul Saga!

[@LDaemontus]

I knew from the moment I stepped into Shadowlands that it was Titanic. The developers weren't being obscure in their hints that the Shadowlands, a "machine", was in some way, similar to the Forges on Azeroth. If anything, I was calling it out for the entirety of Shadowlands across Twitter, making references back to the Twisting Nether, Azerite, the Eredar, the Soulbinding process. Almost everything Xaxxas has mentioned is reconfirming everything I already knew, and believed, from the moment Shadowlands released. It was obvious, in both the wowpedia references of where the zone inspirations came from and through general exploration, what the subtle clues and underlying story hints were, and it FRUSTRATES me that even with FULL EXPLANATION, with references and old lore to back up my theories, other players were still too brain dead (and bitter) to realize it. Its only *now* when its safest to talk about Shadowlands, and its implications, that people are coming to conclusions that only a handful of us had figured out years ago. I have my own frustrations, and criticisms, of Shadowlands, namely about how timid the lore felt when compared against the inspirations behind it. I felt the writers didn't have the guts, the actual balls, to truly dip into theology and mythology of world religions and cultures to weave something truly great, but I also understand that Shadowlands happened as an unfortunate time period. However, there were still plenty of context clues, even as far back as BFA, about what was coming next, including the prediction of the Dragon Isles. Yet, people still act like its "retcon", or "mind-blowing" when its simply PATTERN RECOGNITION. If you can pick up patterns, which is why Xaxxas & Pyro are able to do (and our homeboy, Dread Expanse), you can pretty much foretell events, minus a couple of details, atleast a good expansion before its announced. Anyone who acts surprised, or offended, by such information isn't using, or isn't capable, of seeing patterns. The inability to use intuition and pattern recognition to coherently link together concepts is why we get so much of the "lore" side of WoW clinging onto every word, every page, like a bible and unable to see beyond it, and why those people are always so blindsided despite being good lore researchers. They consider all, and any, lore text to be immediately factual and official, at face value, and base their experience of a story upon that assumption, leaving them vulnerable in other areas. Its why I refuse to debate with them because they will never see the patterns that speculators, like us, do. Simply put, most of the player base falls under this category in varying degrees, especially roleplayers, who, as far as they're concerned, they believe the wall is white and cannot acknowledge that the wall is also hollow, with termites infesting it. Its one of the reasons why Bellular, as good as his writers and editors are at complying the information for him to recite, being too cowardly or "triggered" by the MENTION of Shadowlands being the new content bit that he does in almost every video referencing future lore for WoW annoys me. People can't even put aside their personal bias towards the expansion for the sake of producing quality speculation or lore recaps because their own audiences are too bruised and need coddling. With that rant out of the way, I'd love to see more speculation, either from Xaxxas or someone else, regarding the Eredar and their soulbinding practices. If they are, indeed, also a species from the Twisting Nether and the Nether was the original boiling pot for the realms of Death, then it would make sense to consider that, perhaps, Eredar were the progenitors to the Sylvan in Ardenweald, considering they both share a likeness in appearance. If you pay attention to the description given for Argus's possible geography, you will read: "Eredath was the most sacred of the Eredar's cities. According to Maatparm, its walkways were lined with precious minerals and the rivers glittered even in complete darkness.[7] Eredath has also been described as having purple hills.", which describe an oddly familiar zone (Ardenweald?). I think its a theory worth exploring.

[@ChinnuWoW]

Could not agree more. It’s like Bellular and others want to dismiss Shadowlands lore completely just because it was presented badly. It’s intellectual cowardice. Shadowlands lore is a permanent part of the game and they should accept it. Most people are such shallow thinkers and hold grudges. It’s narrow-mindedness.

[@Boomken76]

I loved the geomitry of ZM & the raid imo it fel like it was built by a math eccentric mind as math was seen by this force as "perfection"

[@SeralyneYT]

I love the Titan++ = C++ thing so much LMAO. I wonder how memory unsafe this shit is

[@washtubdysthe9221]

in caverns of time you look out and see a purple planet with rings around it, and it kinda looks like the nether with the atroid belt

[@hotpotato3311]

Intelligibility is no joke. Whether it is visually missing (like the famous battle scene from Game of Thrones) or narratively missing (the movie Tenet for example), intelligibility is disgustingly important if you are telling a story such as this. I am surprised Blizzard, or, the writer of this/these story/ies missed such an obvious concept and did not think of this. Just a few obvious hints would do absolutely wonders for the Shadowlands' story.

[@Lain3695]

OK these theories are amazing! Gameplay aside, I was always intrigued by the shadowlands lore - especially wondering about the Devourers and Drust breaking through into this perfectly ordered system.

[@LDaemontus]

I deeply want to know more about the Drust, and the Devourers. I also wanted to know more about the Brokers, too.

[@joshuacrime]

This guy spits facts. Best interpretation I've seen thus far. Doing the Titans work for them, basically, is what I think the Zereths are purposed to be. Imposing a set order on each of the cosmic orders. But Ordering Disorder is impossible, which is why Titans are so susceptible to Fel. Sargeras had full access to the Zereth for Disorder, so he either stole the powers or was corrupted by them. The ordering of Light will have the effect of creating dogma and "The One True Way" kind of thinking. The ordering of Void created the Void Lords. Void and Disorder are not supposed to be ordered and the effect then would be to create the complete antithesis in a very real and intelligent manner. Couple that with what the now ordered realms...and now you have determined enemies that you yourself created. Probably out of pure ignorance than malice. The Titans didn't really understand how Titan++ works. But now, you've created true horrors that Life now has to deal with in a way that was never intended.

[@Seinglede]

In terms of the order in which the realms fell under the titan's control, I believe that Light and Life were almost certainly the first, and that they probably did so more or less willingly. I don't think it is a coincidence that the three most important members of the pantheon are Norgannon, associated heavily with order, Eonar, associated with life, and Aman'thul, most closely associated with light. This is also why those three forces are depicted as being on the same side in the Titan's cosmological chart. The three titans associated with those realms allowed them to be ordered by choice rather than force. The others had to be taken, which is why they are framed as the opposition. Death seems to be the only one they ever successfully re-originated, though. Chaos and Void seem as though they were just sealed away entirely rather than being repurposed.

[@He6o.]

How about this theory. Xal'atath - is the soul of the titan that Sargeras killed (by cutting it (the planet) in two). Do you remember the story of how Sargeras first met the void that settled on titan, and he killed the titan, cutting the planet. And after - hello Nerzul version 0.00 (by Primus (not Zovaal)). And now Xal'atath will try to “regain what should rightfully be hers” - life in the guise of a titan (somehow).

[@tylermcnally8232]

Do people really not understand that the most basic form of order is geometric shapes? Zerith mortis is all spheres squares and triangles.

[@Ishtarded]

"Is this what some people feel like when they watch my videos?" Yeah man, this is how we USED to feel years ago when you were making this type of content. When i heard you were coming back i got really excited for this type of narrative lore content, instead you've just been uploading stream highlights or long form videos where you just talk to the chat in most of them. I want old pyro videos weaved into these new ones :D All of Xaxxas videos are great, and i hope he keeps it up. Maybe he can inspire you back into this narrative type of lore telling.

[@Pyromancer]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/boDad2pqiricoq8si=iVVR6EqKsSLUWuQW We are still trying to release old style content, it just takes a bit more time to put out. Here's a recent video that may be exactly what you're looking for - and there's more to come.

[@arthena2130]

The constructs are obviously related to the cosmology chart, since these are words for the six elements. Vitae=Life. Eonar who may be ordered Elune. Mortis=Death. Argus Ordus=Order first construct and first thing to be ordered. Norganon Lumen=Light. Might be Amun Thul since his creation have relation to light. Tumult=Disorder. Sargares who is likely ordered Anshe. Umbra=Void. Most likely why the void has become something that it was never supposed to be. No titan really matches the void. Rythm=Azeoth herself, most likely the second thing to be ordered by the titan's grand design after order itself. The fact there is a construct for ordering Azeroth tells me that it is not Azeroths own creation, but something titan made. Not having seen all these constructs also makes sense to me, since we have not really explored their realms or even been to them. The ones we have explored, we have seen one of them.

[@patrickgabriel295]

This was a Titans++ vid goddammit man amazing

[@ApokWow]

The way i think of it is the titans are actually servants in their own rights to the actual order pantheon, which is the actual 7th cosmic force often referred to because the titans themselves arent the actual order pantheon. the order pantheon is hidden somewhere possibly in their own realm which we havent seen yet and domination magic is not part of death magic but part of order magic, the reason that death/undeath have access to it is due to the re-ordering of the shadowlands. The worldsouls were created by the first ones to be a physical manifestation of the cosmic forces within our universes, azeroth the prime worldsoul is the incarnation of reality/balance. the titans are worldsouls that were ordered by the actual order pantheon, the thing with titan ordering or "mind control" is that it weakens as can be seen with oathbinder and the dracthyr. Them seeming to go against their own goals and the overall goals of the titans on some occaisions (such as is the case with the deeproot and eluna'hir) because that is more aligned to their actual alignement. this is why the titans seemingly have an incarnation of every cosmic force, death the way that it is in the universe is a creation thrust up us by the titans and their masters. Mortality and the shadowlands are a creation which siphons anima to fuel the machinary which keeps reality in its current state. Initially upon death, a "mortal" being would go to the realm that they have become most attuned to through their actions etc in their life and as such there would be a balance between the cosmic forces of power and "population", this is how sargeras had the knowledge to use the power of argus to allow demons to resurrect in the nether after death which is somewhat similar to loa and ardenweald. the beings who ordered the titans and the cosmos, ordered the shadowlands and created the cycle of life and death we have now where beings aren't reborn but mainly turned into anima to fuel the machinery which keeps that I believe sargeras went on his burning crusade not because of what we were told, but because he was freed from his ordering somehow and the other titans were still bound by theirs perhaps he was freed by his sister elune.

[@Nicholas1994]

Okay, 21mins in, but before I forget: If the Shadowlands is constructed by the Titans, would that mean that those who end up in the Maw are the ones most capable of usurping the Titans' order? When Sylvanas said she will set us all free, could this have been her true goal? A goal that will now have to take the backburner since she decided to honour the wishes of mortal allies (I use this term loosely) by going on the sidequest in the Maw? Also... what a batshit crazy goal for a mortal to have. Where and when would she have even learned about all this stuff that most sentient beings don't know about?

[@charlayned]

I think Sylvanas was hoodwinked into helping the Jailer because of her anger at being dead and re-rezed after throwing herself off of Icecrown Citadel to kill herself finally. She ended up in the Maw and that's when she met Zoval and in her anger she let him convince her to work to get Death itself out of the way. I think that she got more and more power from him in the case where her will started to wane, she was given more power to wield to give her belief that this was going to work.

[@miriamweller812]

Sylvanas is telling your her goal over and over and over and over again throughout Shadowlands. She didn't hide anything about it since then. Peopel just laughed about it: "Yeah, sure, Sylvanas is fighting for freedom and justice at the side of the guy who is called "The Jailer", lol" - not evn thinking about a second, that this guy was MADE the Jailer, was BANISHED to the Maw and didn't create it - nor has he ever created domination magic, he simply learned to use weaponize his own chains. Sylvanas wanted to change Death itself and destroy the brutal tyranny of the Shadowlands. And without Zovaal's betrayel, she would have managed that, but even with a lot has changed, starting with the destruction of the tyrannic order that has to be replaced, the other Death Gods realizing, that their order was flawed and a new Arbiter, who was once mortal, too and is now not just sorting mortals like things. She had no problem to go into the Maw, because freeing the souls there was part of the plan anyway, it simply would have happened automatically if her plan would have succeeded completely. She also got personal reasons to go there, for example looking for her loved one.

[@miriamweller812]

@@charlayned It's overall funny, how people laugh at Sylvanas, while the player chars and NPC just follow the order of the other death gods, never questioning them. And that with THEM being the creators of the whole Maw system AND domination magic in the first place and one of them the creator and master of the dreadlords. Zovaal mainly went crazy at the end, until then HE was the prisoner and a victim of domination magic himself, distorted, robbed of his heart, which was used to run the replacement machine. Those other death gods are not the good guys at all, but the player just follows them as usual, never questioning them. And Sylvanas changed a lot for the better for mortals, not even starting to talk about, how she instantly let all her power and own freedom go, to stand with all other mortals against Zovaal's betrayel at the end. Not many would do that. She could have just laughed her ass off at everyone else (who overall saw her as monster and want to kill her) and stay with Zovaal, becoming one of the most powerful being in the new universe. She just canceled that in an instance, making ABSOLUTE clear that she never lied a single second about why she was doing all this: to end the tyranny of death, which treated mortals like cattle for their anima and that's it.

[@charlayned]

@@miriamweller812 I'm looking forward to the next chapter in her story. With Alleria the focus of the void in the Saga, I suspect Sylvanas will be back to deal with some of the things that will happen.

[@jeffreyjones8086]

The void looking tentacles and roots coming off of him too are pretty suspicious…..25:40

[@AlfredShaker-i6q]

"is this what it feels like for people to watch my videos" yes Pyro :D

[@Verdictus13]

Azeroth could be a matrioshka brain, with the various layers being different "realms",and with mortal souls being used as the fuel. Hence why in Shadowlands Sylvanas breaking into the realm of death rent a hole in the "sky". Could give an in game explanation of why you can only fly so high before hitting a wall :P Edit: Hell, Oribos could have been built to generate power from souls passing to the Maw. Like a magnet being moved through a coil of wire will generate voltage, the same way those shake-to-charge flashlights work. On another note, we could be in a version of the Titanomachy, when in Greek mythology most of the Titans were imprisoned in Tartarus after the gods and some few titans warred against them for control and survival.

[@miriamweller812]

Azeroth feels like the core and soul of "reality", where all the cosmic forces come together (via those Zereth ...) to create reality. And why the cosmic forces are forced to "touch" there, with their radical (radical comes from the greek word for "root" and means "from root on") PoV, they are pretty unable to trust each other, if not just plain opposites than still so very different. As the very core of reality and pretty much the reason for the whole machine, Azeroth is the control room and powerhouse of everything = you control it in whatever way -> you control everything, you are the ruler. Just like Zovaal tried to use Zereth Mortis to rewrite the whole machine, Zereth Ordos could have been used by the Titans to rewrite it in their way and they were simply not far enough (or didn't want to), to just "kill" it completely, just "ordering" it in the way they want it. The fact alone, that the emerald dream was created by one of those higher titan puppets and that without even much to do with "order" to begin with. They also clearly mess around with the other forces, looking at the Aspects for example. They are not just some "Order Paladins", they got their claws everywhere, life, time, magic, nature (with the Emeral Dream abomination), "earth" (= Azeroth?). Wouldn't even be a surprise, if Order was the one, that started the whole cosmic war thing. It could be like WoW's USA: we are so good, we have to control the whole world, any other solution is bad and will be fought with brutal violence in every way.

[@jalicea1650]

Zereth Mortis - Death Zereth Lumen - Light Zereth Ordos - Arcane Zereth Vitae - Life Zereth Umbra - Void Zereth Tumult - Fel How can you order disorder? Ask the Pantheon of Disorder, even the Burning Legion feared them..

[@Malcontent88]

Tumult means disorder, sooo are we saying Fel is disorder magic? Adjective. fel (attributive fel, comparative feller, superlative felste) ferocious, fierce. bright (e.g. sunlight) Sargeras isn’t corrupted then, right? Sun-disorder Moon-order Eclipse…

[@jalicea1650]

@@Malcontent88 Fel is chaos and disorder magic. The pantheon of Disorder rules over the Twisting Nether and only allowed Sargeras to enact his will because it expanded the influence of their realm into the other realms.

[@Sparda11222]

There is no way Eonar is Elune. The power levels never match. Eonar has zero shodow powers or any cosmic magic. Nothing to do with the stars. Even with your theory of the "daughter, maiden, crone deity". We are getting lost in details here. The titans are powerful but are no way near godhood.. if even a rocky dragon with void empowerment is cocky enough to think he can fuck up the entire pantheon... if Sargeras alone bitch slapped them all.

[@Boomken76]

I imo the shadowlands and dream to me look like dyson spheres built around the area to order and give it form

[@Boomken76]

1:11:21 old Karazan the Oz fight. Spell cast is No Place Like Home. Which is the same name of the new human passive

[@Stelphy876]

hahahahahaha damn

[@jordansweet7738]

Damn, Sargeras dominated by the Primus or Jailer or sumthin, via dreadlords. Kinda makes sense. If not dominated, he was certainly manipulated

[@SpiritGRF]

I agree with the elune part Pyro. There is a reason Eonar is on Elunaria planet in legion. Then there is all the connections with the emerald dream and the world trees. Also find it interesting when aman'thul rips out the world tree eonar cries and then we have stuff like the tears of elune. Now I can't put all this stuff together like you can, but I do believe there is something there for sure.

[@HalcyonYDG]

Hey Pyro, not sure if you'll see this. But I found a small snippet on my Instagram of us back in MOP getting Glory of the Ulduar raider with our guild. It looks awful, but the memories just flooded back lookin at it lol Hope all is well brother. I'm so glad you made it big time!

[@housefullofransackery3505]

Good stuff Pyro, can't wait for the Silithus/Aq20 lore tour. Btw I verified that the aq20 skybox has nothing to do with day/night cycle. It's static no matter the time. Did malygos recently and it's almost 1-1 to AQ20

[@Volithras]

The Shadowlands CE weapon enchant effect "Wraithchill" changes on Argus

[@lstinthelag8989]

If you zoom I on that building that looks like an owl/dragon or whatever... it actually looks like the winter queen. Can even see her face

[@Lexi-me8gk]

A small part of me kind of wonders if given their inability to easily manifest easily in reality and some of the quotes and stuff about corrupted world souls if maybe the Titans are actually voidlords who have pulled off a massive lie that they are beings of Order. Supported also by the fact that the titans seem to have a grasp of multiple timelines and show preference for/nudge toward the one they find favorable while (unlike the Light) accepting the possibility that their chosen timeline may not happen without direct intervention. Also crazy side thing, given the broker connection with ethereals, the arcane-like inbetween and pyro's idea of Shadowlands being a shattered world, could the Shadowlands actually be formerly Karesh?

[@xzBorn_]

31:52 I think about it like this. The individual part may not perfect but the whole is.

[@TigernachVT]

I believe the Titans are delaying the inevitable and know the best way to delay Azeroth's rebirth is to hide their involvement. They delay Azeroth's rebirth by preventing dead souls to go back to her, and siphon power away from her. Since SL, I've thought Aman'Thul pulled out Oribos as well as Elune (Y'Shaarj). Oribos was the funnel that fed souls back to Azeroth.

[@IBISMK1]

Pyro has so many voices, wth? 😂 Should seriously do voice acting.

[@eternallegacy89]

Kind of a lot of stretching with the Shadowlands design part because a lot was actually copied from EverQuest House of Thule and other things like the Maw Guards and infinite planes/afterlives mirror the House of Thule where it was like some kind of mansion or whatever but each floor had led to a new plane of existence.

[@mikedarling905]

i like this. i just wish shadow lands was better and told this story better during shadowlands

[@rl1585]

"cant stop the signal you titan mfs" 💀

[@themacmozshow107]

I’m also curious about when characters die and go into the “light” if they were supposed to go to the twisting nether then could the light also be steering life away from its natural destination and sending it to an alternate plane?

[@TigernachVT]

31:00 The Titans might be trying to create a world that appears balanced.

[@omaralvarado2313]

zereth mortis was the greatest zone. it had water that you could walk on! actually amazing and never before seen

[@omaralvarado2313]

@@NostraDavid2 oh man. youre right, absolutely game changing lol

[@Chris.Woodcock]

The medium is the message.

[@themacmozshow107]

Shadowlands is not the afterlife it’s a like a battery where the spirit energy revolves around different poles and charges itself. Could be wrong but that’s what it feels like. The jailer was stopping that cyclical flow and trying to kill the battery

[@md-sl1io]

the titans dug deeper into the planet and did far more damage and far more much interference than the old gods ever did

[@miriamweller812]

Old God could simply have started as a virus the Void sent in to destroy the machine the Titans had created. For the void it must be sheer unimaginable sacrileg, to just bring absolute order to the world, with it coming from "all truths", so just canceling all truths for one order is unforgiveable.

[@matthewperrin5701]

That was good. Frfr

[@Millenial_Minuteman]

So, the titan jails that held the incarnates were made from the bodies of the "greater intelligences?"

[@bmille87]

Well the maw from top down looks like a quasar

[@lockiQcGaming]

Perfect being of logic these Arcane Intelligence. I seen whats you done . A.I those perfect logic intelligence that you put code into.

[@VigneAi]

Me an argentinian watching the vid: -hey man why the beef?

[@chimerakait]

this video actually makes me like shadowlands and now I want to do a playthrough. Since the toxic Anima grind is probably gone now, it will be notably more enjoyable. My original breaking point was at the end of Legion where i realistically couldn't remain on the Artifact Power hamster wheel anymore and fell off when i saw where the game is going. i'm gland borrowed power will no longer be a thing.

[@Rikulat]

30:00 yes its exactly like this xd

[@sadettinarslan5324]

so it makes sense that eonar appointed her sister as one of the eternal ones. elune is a bogus. elune is just another name of eonar. ive been saying this for 8 fing years. it was obvious even from the start. tears of elune was eonar's artifact.

[@TheJacob232]

Sylvannas was a Maw Walker?!?? WTF i didnt catch that

[@TrickieRicky]

God I PRAY The Last Titan truly ends the Titan story so we can move forward. The fact that when they try to move onto something else the lore community just acts like its just all Titans... sigh.

[@Malcontent88]

I thinnk the emerald dream is what azeroth would have been in the mind of azeroth itself

[@TheJacob232]

I still think True Void was the beginning. At one point VOID had a naaru style situation and split causing a Big Bang and giving birth to 'Creation' starting with :Order and Chaos......i mean yea Life and Death could predate Order and Chaos...... thematically they would come as the second set not the last

[@123Handbuch]

pls add video link to video description

[@nekoyoukai2nd]

worlds within worlds? sounds like Men in Black stuff^^

[@MInorek5]

22:25 Shattered ? You mean.. do we know,what the sargerases sword done yet? What if he did it and thats why we went to shadowlands and in bfa sylvanas was made a pawn coz of that

[@MInorek5]

Jailer imho have done his work, think of him as itachi from naruto for example, guarding the world and trying to get people to shadowlands so they see whats happening. Maybe it was his last calls and sylvanas was the right one for it. He had to create this 'danger' to make us see and get us into shadowlands..maybe he wanted to be beaten by us for a reason

[@MInorek5]

Silithus might be lowkey nearest entrance to shadowlands..zo vaal just tried to get us there after he had a chance and he broke the circle of souls going somewhere.. but where..? Well hello hello xalatath

[@andreihlen7597]

I think it's too complex for what I would give blizzard credit for, things is ALWAYS as it first seems

[@DataCymru1701]

Always said Shadowlands wasn't the real afterlife! Noone listened!

[@Altrantis]

An afterlife where you can die and go to the afterlife... to me it sounds like someone put a second life in the way to death to use people who are stuck in this structured place believing they're already in the afterlife.

[@DataCymru1701]

@@Altrantis exactly, a machine to imitate death to harvest Anima, the entire twisting nether could be the very same thing we call The Matrix!

[@thea7826]

What if Norganon(being blue) is the blue child, because who else would be able to trick and dominate elune(is she is eonar) and anshe(if he is sargeras)

[@crazymat69]

I know pyro likes to see all the realms as planets but what if they're all azeroth like all the different azeroths u experience during dragonflight. They could all be fractals and our planet is azeroth prime.

[@Pyromancer]

VERY good idea and something I'm going to talk about soon!

[@nenwar3454]

23:00 shadowlands broken... maybe like being destroyed by a sword?

[@nenwar3454]

Minute later, my thought exactly lol

[@Alathea123]

the theory about worlds within worlds might not be that crazy considering tha twhen Sylvanas broke the Lich Kings crown the heavens broke and revealed a new world

[@Boomken76]

using Azeroth to mold the dream would explane why the titans were the only one to effect the dream in a permanent way.

[@rune1903]

Each of these lore spec videos makes me want to play wow until I realise its boring af till WW comes out >.

[@MrHuntervad]

Ye, shadowland and bfa storytelling was bad, even if the lore could/is be good, we'll see how it be later on.

[@DoftheLin]

Pyro you were one of the people yelling about "How many books do I have to buy to explain the lore to the people" back during Shadowlands. Why you mocking people that say it now ? I enjoy listening to your theories and ideas, but when you do that kinda shit i start to lose interest. just saying.

[@miriamweller812]

Seems unlikely, that the Titans created the whole machine, more that they took over. A big question is who and even more WHY and even more FROM WHAT was this machine createad in the first place.