THE TOP 10 BEST M+ DUNGEONS OF ALL TIME

[@_Zir]

Max laying down the ground rules about discussion at the start, but also being the biggest deviator and rabbit hole explorer is hilarious :D

[@Skocik911]

My problem with this list is that half of these dungeons for the vast majority of an expansion sucked it took forever for them to be “fixed”

[@Fr33mx]

now imagine if he didn't have those rules, he'd be waay deeper into each and every one of those.

[@GreyRL]

"They would kill me with hammers" is my new favourite Dratnos line 1:17:05

[@someoneelse878]

He's also right- DEATH TO SANGUINE DEPTHS

[@HoGirth]

Let me introduce you to my friend: Northern Lion

[@quinnquinnquinn215]

1:17:46 *

[@GreyRL]

@@quinnquinnquinn215 timestamping for myself as I enjoy the preamble, it really sends it home

[@Sorae90]

This is a super cool concept with the checking if someone has the dungeon higher on the list and if not discussing it. More of this please!

[@BiIboSwaggins]

Holy crap man, I was listening to this before bed, and as I was falling asleep the video was kind of ending... but then the dratnos winning sound came in, and ill be awake for another 19 years.

[@fronk_inc]

LMAO my bad man it's a little loud in hindsight

[@BiIboSwaggins]

@@fronk_inc Well, I am still awake LMAO.

[@fronk_inc]

@@BiIboSwaggins gm

[@Gordonfreems]

They would kill me with hammers Dratnos is such a beast with these takes

[@BushesDid911]

Dratnos with the greatest quote lol. "they would kill me with hammers"

[@dibert9]

What I think is funny is that the "open pathing" concept is either the greatest thing ever if you have a group you constantly run with but it is the worst thing ever in pugs. That is a take completely biased by group consistency.

[@oliverlee8561]

The best is when there are popular routes that are common and also choices for interesting strats.

[@TheDeseat]

Totally agree. It's the worst if you are used to doing the "pug route" and then out of nowhere the pug tank tries a different route and you just know it's gonna be a deplete

[@samhope119]

0:09 😊

[@izadarx]

I cracked up laughing for a solid few minutes in my car after “they would kill me with hammers”

[@Shapingus]

@17:45 They *did* bring back Eye of Azshara M+ back in SL Before Season 4 which was the first "official" season with prior-expansion dungeons, Legion Timewalking had its own set of M+ dungeons with a special Infernal affix. Eye of Azshara was one of them, along with BRH/Court/DHT/Nelth's Lair/Vault

[@SuperHoggs]

Great listen, really enjoyed this from start to finish

[@laxmax92]

Dorki's explanation of Atal Dazar last boss, hit too close to home. I cant count how many pugs would not listen to me telling them to stack just off boss

[@lovelywaz]

Underrot with a PUG was totally different experience. Be it the trash pulls, or "body pulls" that should've been skipped, or the boss mechanics. A LOT of all these relied on Tanks to begin with but then also team work. The positioning on bosses were extremely important and also where to stack and where to face. It was always either one of the best and most fun runs, or the miserable with PUGs usually disbanding on Cragmaw. Here's a quick "small list" of group wide mechanics that could go either way. 1) Tank positioning Cragmaw and entire group needs to clear ticks + groups positioning as well 2) Tank positioning Sprecaller and once again rest of the group needs to clear mushrooms 3) EVERYONE had their own brilliant idea of how last boss worked where people deciding not to stack with tank, or tank not doing it right to begin with and then someone thinking it's BEST to stay near the wall without realizing the breath could (and DID) splash back off the wall.

[@Erik_Arnqvist]

And this is why it’s high on my personal list too like it was a super chaotic pug key which I enjoy greatly

[@corysteiner1218]

51:58 I love Dratnos's response to Dorki. This is pure gold xD.

[@Corrupted]

great content! please do another one with the worst m+, best raids, best bosses, etc etc!

[@Zanaro97]

Best world first kill experiences all bosses

[@Zoho-Wow]

Dorki so funny calling the Echo HOV snapping "basic"

[@fastydave]

Because it is

[@thatepicwizardguy]

the best dungeons aren't painful to pug civilian keys for. freehold was excellent for that so it was very good. underrot was horrific for that so it was very bad.

[@vidjal]

Agree on Maw of Shouls, it was one of my fav ever. Loved running it over and over.

[@buddybarlow9604]

only because its 20 mins

[@DanteDemonZ]

Every time I see these list I am reminded just how vast the difference is between people who pug and people who play premades. Because I have nothing but horrendous experiences with Underrot. Genuinely think across BFA and DF that it's the most bricked keys I've ever been in, even more so than Murozonds Rise.

[@andrewglover1751]

😢😅

[@Mieli101]

That's interesting to read your perspective on this. My experience pugging was Underrot was the most free key out there and was my least favorite for that reason.

[@TotalRejection]

underrot third boss on tyrannical = pug destroyer

[@renanmoraes424]

I always pugged and I always thought underrot was an easier key, would always be the loot key for me

[@mysteryman7766]

Underrot and SotS were just objectively bad dungeons imo. I could not stand them.

[@RalphEvangelista]

Dorki saying "fish stick" and dratnos chuckling like a damn teenager is big vibes

[@bramboter]

A top 5/10 wishlist dungeons to get or return in m+ would also be cool

[@RhodesianSuperiority]

13:50 if i could change m+ in any way i wanted, it wouldn’t be affixes or routing. It would be to just drop healthpools and make every dungeon sub 20:00’ or 25:00’ minutes. Short dungeons feel so much more rewarding and satisfying when you just CRUSH THEM

[@toasted_ll]

i loved the tree boss as a bdk, i was doing 26 keys with out clearing him my team can just chill while im stressing but its the most fun because i actually had to think about my cooldowns and one fuck up i was dead but it was so fun, got the heart pumpin

[@waveeyes]

I will say, Mists is definitely on my list (Resto Shaman). Partly because aside from the Lost Woods style pussle it had a bunch of fun mechanics (I especially loved how the finaly boss "learned" how you played and adapted to it with how it throws the balls. And partly, while this didn't happen to me I saw a video on Reddit of someone running it as Necrolord early on. The boss Mind Controlled them and made them cast the Necrolord hearthstone, teleporting them out of the dungeon (which while obviously unintentional was hilarious and felt like a strategy that made sense for that specific boss). Though I think my overall nr 1 is Temple of Sethraliss. As a healer main I have a soft spot for healing fights (and while Avatar is no Dreamwalker, it was still a fun change of pace) and I also really enjoyed the bridges where you dodged lightning (the orbs before the final boss were somewhat annoying though, but that's my only negative).

[@Delarissa]

I just wanted to bring something up. Vanilla Ice Cream is not bland, Vanilla is a flavour that I specifically seek out as an ice cream as when it's made with actual Vanilla pods, it's amazing.

[@Rhaze7]

Dratnos with some major memorable quotes here! Love it!

[@Divideres]

The Gingi slap is for me still a clip that brightens my day :D

[@moldgrim1]

Prime content. From a pug, no coms tank/healer: can't say I agree on all of it, but a lot of good info and viewpoints here.

[@ThePluviaumbra]

Theater of Pain has a special place in my heart ♥

[@bengixd]

gooning to this

[@carteks1]

Atal’dazar as a pug only player would possibly be in my least favorite dungeon list. Entire dungeon was braindead and then pugs can’t do the last boss for shit 75% of the time. Such a fucking waste of time.

[@ThePolarpop]

Yeah but if they didnt absolutely ruin the last boss...coulda been a fun speed run pug dungeon

[@carteks1]

@@ThePolarpop could have, but, they did unfortunately.

[@Jay-407]

Last season of m+ was goated imo. Gonna be hard to top that season in terms of the dungeon pool

[@DerNesor]

Dorky is becoming more and more that "I don't like it because you like it character" xD

[@er624]

Thanks for this boys - great listen

[@davidloureiro7294]

Max making WoW lists is the content I live for. I just love lists.

[@fastydave]

Imagone not knowing EoA was a M+ dungeon brought back in Legion Timewalking

[@Gabrielor89]

agreed on Eye of Azshara. Great, great M+. Flexible on where you get mob kill from, can mount, fair bosses (minus the Naga Witch, which eventually made Prydaz mandatory if tyrannical and high enough), the ship skip was great. Overall, my favorite in a good collection of Legion M+'s.

[@Vikingeek]

I think a big part of the issue of the Tree boss in Waycrest, considering the "meta" for the season was that you often just had to pray the roots would go on the augvoker, because the augvoker couldn't help nuke the roots fast enough to save people. xD I also think you almost need to bring in an "average pug champion" player for reference. Someone that perennially plays a non-meta dps spec and just about manages to hit KSM by the end of the season. It's only in DF that I've really stepped up and started pushing keys harder rather than just doing raids, and while I fully appreciated at the time how some of the pre-DF dungeons would play very differently in a properly coordinated group, pugging mid teen level keys trying to push to 15's to get KSM... man that is some of the worst PUG experiences you can get, and it totally skews perceptions of certain dungeons for sure! Like the bosses in Gambit being a good example: the dragon boss, you guys said something along the lines of how having a good or bad tank made a big difference, but in the 13-15 range it was more "did the tank even know they had to do mechanics", and don't even get me started on those 13-15 level final boss pug players not knowing how to do the lines through the orbs... xD

[@nickolasroper3237]

I DIED LAUGHING Waycrest Manure!

[@Geex1988]

I would love to see a list of "would be nice" M+, meaning which odl dungeon could you think of that would you wanna play as mythic.

[@alacritysp]

The seed clip is legendary

[@BlakeMTG]

Great video, v well edited fronk keep it up dude

[@RobTunes]

7:31 At this moment, Growl and Dratnos became my favorites for the episode lol Also Fronk is god tier

[@Lionelhutz-attorney-at-law]

The averagea timer for DF dungeons is currently 35.6 mins? Might be tough to beat with 30 average in TWW

[@leapyearcurt3993]

Great arguments. Should do a list of non mythic dungeons. I will say while I’m fond of Sunken Temple, the comments on Sanguine of having a competent group applies to OG Sunken Temple as it was long and easy to get lost if you didn’t have a group that knew it.

[@Jehandr]

omg no the Other Side? It's such a complete dungeon

[@solomonahmad164]

Absolutely wild 5 of the dungeons on this list come from BFA. I enjoying doing M+ the most in this expansion, the only issue for me was having to roll for corruption. Once you could buy it, it got even better. (I only played for the last 6-8 months of the expansion after a lot of QOL was added).

[@Jaredius]

BIS trink in shrine for Sin…that dungeon grew on me and I loved it.

[@Crazyhorrse]

Atal Dzar always has a special place in my heart. In BFA I was a mythic raider mostly and pugged for keys. Being a high DPS on server I feel like i carried so many pugs through AD and Yaz and it was rewarding. I haven't heard this much but Yaz in a high key in BFA with a SP in group was unreal. Spiders growing and walking crossways though streams of shadow apparitions all over the room forever on Tyrannical is some wild shit. BFA Underrot isn't the sexy pick but the true #1.

[@coleragsdale4827]

I did pugs in atal dazar and going right sucked ass. Left was still easier than right in a bug, yet everyone still went right

[@IIIEPINEPHRINE]

Growls take on Halls of Valor at 49:58 was SO needed. That dungeon sucks.

[@Crazyhorrse]

Growl in back loading bullets in a clip ready to unload on Halls of Valor was hilarious.

[@lovelywaz]

I see, Kings' Rest won HANDEDLY right from the start! 👌👌

[@sooolangweilig]

Fronk appreciation comment

[@chrish0001]

I agree, I don't think there was a dungeon / raid better executed than Kara

[@AndreasMnck]

Absolute banger of a video.

[@radicuris]

How is Fall in your top 10, 3 months ago y'all put it barely in C tier, it has so many issues

[@gruncleiroh5525]

It has issues as a dungeon with role play, the map, m0 tuning, and other things but as a spammable key it's goated

[@radicuris]

​@@gruncleiroh5525i get that but with that many issues it shouldnt be eligible for top 10 ever. All it was good for is easy timed runs because you could wipe 46 times and still 2chest

[@Ironloss]

The list is based on personal preference. That’s his personal preference list lol

[@birogknight352]

ML will always have a special place in my heart of all the wow dungeons, it was my first timed +20

[@Oliyox]

Putting Azure Vaults in the discussion is crazy to me.

[@arma1218]

Growl making me wish I could go back and play sanguine depths with a new mindset

[@el3ctros]

Aren't the chains in nelth a damage amp now? They used to do damage like TD cannons.

[@Aeder42]

I can't believe the global combat on the sanguine depths gauntlet wasn't mentioned.

[@Sven2711]

The comparison to hirumareds list is missing sadly, that would have spiced this up by a ton

[@samschulman3663]

It was mentioned in some text near the beginning, they didn’t include it because they didn’t want to eat hirumared’s lunch, and instead direct people to his video. They’re being respectful

[@Onslaught516]

"Here comes the forest"🤣 48:40

[@arjana3862]

Hot Shrine of the storm take: I loved that dungeon because on the last boss as a healer my damage actually mattered. (big fat debuff boost) Edit: Ah dratnos hit upon this point, i commented too fast :D

[@jonathanmcelroy7457]

I agree with them that Underrot coming back took some poinst off for me but only because I have the worlds worst RNG and I was stuck in Underrot prison for a good 3 weeks where I only ran Underrot keys trying to get the damn fist weapon to drop for my DH

[@Askfornate]

Great video! #TeamSargeras #TeamDetheroc Azure Vaults, SoS and Eye was/is too big/too long. I loved Waycrest Manor, lol!

[@mcquade50]

Where’d you get that wallpaper? So sick

[@7upyourz]

Would be cool to see a list that's not all about the great push or mdi or high level keys and just about enjoyment or lore

[@Proverb.]

Nobody had Iron Docks sheesh I loved that dungeon, I also thought very highly of Sanguine Depths. Pretty sure I had the most fun doing M+ overall in Shadowlands, I liked every dungeon a lot other than Plaguefall.

[@Catxukluth]

Fall was a good dungeon because you had the ability to pull bigger or smaller depending on how high the key was. It was super fun being able to pull 4 dragons or the entire first area on a weekly without being a complete joke on higher keys. Being able to just blast a huge pull without that much coordination is fun

[@dzinx0rrr]

"because you had the ability to pull bigger or smaller depending on how high the key was" I don't wanna destroy your logic there my friend, but you have that choice in every possible m+ dungeon :)

[@Catxukluth]

@@dzinx0rrr not really, a lot of the time you can’t realistically change pull size. Rise last season is a good example, you could kinda pull bigger in the first area if you wanted but every other spot you were gated by rp and low mob density. Same with spires of ascension, you physically can’t pull more than a few mobs at a time in 80% of the dungeon.

[@averyward7520]

Banger vid as always.

[@zahar1297]

What is that wallpaper at start?

[@Crazyhorrse]

My favorite memories about Shrine of the storm is joining pugs on bolstering weeks just for pure entertainment and seeing which mobs will be made into 40 man raid bosses before people start noping out and disband.

[@chilimaggaming]

Really great content and I don't do M+ any more.

[@KatieKatastrophee]

Growl fuckin BASEDDDDDDDD. Sanguine Depths OWNS

[@og_ktg]

I feel like they nailed it with Gambit and Sanguine being the best 2 (motherlode uhhh yeah i disagree there) Both incredible, gambit is my 1 but sanguine depths is definitely top 3 for me, that place was fucking sick. Most interesting bosses, the theme was sick, and the gauntlet felt really good honestly.

[@Lionelhutz-attorney-at-law]

Nah Motherlode is great. I think on teeming weeks it sucked for people the most.

[@LCaaroe]

I watched part of the top 10 worst dungeons video, and it had so much "that boss sucked" followed by "yeah" without further explanation that I thought, ok, I'll go to the top 10 BEST video to understand what they consider good. Maybe then I will understand what's implied in the brilliant "yeah that sucks" articulation of the other video. And now this video is just "I just really like this dungeon." "Yeah." "Even though I agree that all those parts suck, I just love it." Thanks for preparing an articulate discussion guys, I learned a lot. I wish you would try a little harder to edit yourself so it doesn't just become 1,5 hours of rambling. But then again, maybe this is just "content slop" that I'm consuming wrong, maybe it's just supposed to be background noise that I barely pay attention to and just absorb opinions from pro players without further understanding. Edit: I will say that the guy who speaks first at Halls of Atonement part is actually really clear in his argument. I think this whole video should just be him lol

[@siXti66]

cant wait for your next 4h video about your top 3 npcs in the game.

[@lactoseintolerantgaming2711]

Interesting that Halls of Atonement was only on two lists and so low. I feel like it we definitely see it in future seasons because it was so ironically Shadowlands and pug friendly

[@rezc5939]

Great video idea goodjob

[@BlastHeart96]

What’s the name of Maximum’s Plater Profile?

[@motmegaming6882]

any ideas what stonefacetv addons where, love the textures and the font of spells, even details barrs look clean O.o (lower kara discussion part)

[@Realradya]

I believe you have to be subbed to his twitch but if you are - his whole set up (or at least it was) is available on his discord.

[@nikcurl3552]

Court of Stars will always be my fav

[@simkont6793]

Speaking about top 10 m+ dungeons, hope blizzard brings back awakened affix again some time its 100% the best and most fun affix they ever did.

[@sp1nandroll]

Growl is based af. I have such fond memories healing SD that was an amazing dungeon.

[@Direwoof]

maw of souls 1st blackrook hold 2nd freehrld 3rd for me! So fun.

[@brian63459]

Algethar and Freehold definitely had the most fun pulls, coming from a player who doesnt go past 20

[@wanderintaco]

that wallpaper is insane, where do i find it

[@Epicmission48]

Ragefire Casm. No joke it’s probably my favorite dungeon in totality.

[@KingKryptify]

Honestly, Growl based on his HoV gatting. While it's fair it was "better" when it came back, it doesn't change it was still a bad key dungeon

[@Kekoleet]

Eye of azshara will always be tainted because thats also when they gave hunters barrage, and thats the first dungeon where every one of them got to learn how to use it properly. but great dungeon

[@drakedbz]

I agree with a lot of these, but I think my list would be very heavily SL s4 biased. That entire season was just an absolute banger. The only dungeon I actually hated was upper kara. Workshop could get a bit rough, but the rest were fantastic. The biggest disagreement I have with any of these lists is sanguine depths. The second boss just farms pugs, so I never got my portal for that dungeon.

[@stynbeats]

There is this one dungeon where u kill a professor who drinks like vials and after that you go through a part where you need to kill invisible spiders(?) fast enough while the boss tries unlocking a door? i know im a bit all over the place i just cant think of the name of the dungeon

[@stynbeats]

I found it! Plaguefall :)

[@nahreallytho6583]

I love that dorki thinks non MDI players just get confused when the dungeon isnt linear and run around like headless chickens into a wall in the starting room ahaa. Guy needs to pug a little hes got it too easy

[@Sadistichippo]

Honestly though, that’s an accurate description of so many of the pugs I’ve been in.

[@CrippsyS]

Algethar Academy is hands down the best dungeon Blizz have ever created. Mass AoE, no egregious mobs, great designs bosses (tree boss one of the best ever). 5% star buff at the start. What’s not to love? 😎

[@Strobber7]

How many adds can you put on one video

[@NightKnight1996]

Surprised Mechagon dungeons didn't get mentioned. I guess having Junkyard bots carrying the dungeon wasn't great.

[@SaltyZera]

Growl's top ten is the best simply because SD is #1. Also, I am totally disgusted that NOBODY mentioned Plaguefall. I know it gets a lotta flack for the MDI BS that happened, but holy shit that dungeon is amazing.

[@BrickRosss]

The stupid kid bit was so fucking funny

[@Chimeraiam]

After thinking about it, I actually think the recipe for good m+ dungeons is pretty simple now. 1. Wide open, not cramped spaces 2. Short to medium in length 3. Big trash pulls 4. Interesting bosses

[@johnmassey2632]

i get 2-3 hours, 5 nights a week to play. if they went down 5 minutes on their dungeon times, id be tickled. thats one more dungeon i get to clear every day