The Tragedy of Kieran: Pokémon’s Rival Turned Villain

[@phoenixshadow6633]

Wally: I've become a competitive battler to try to beat my rival. Hop: I've become a professor and deny I'm on copium. Kieran: DEATH! DEATH! DEATH! DEATH! DEATH! DEATH! DEATH!

[@CraftingGummi]

Literally every other rival: “Jesus christ, kid-“

[@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439]

@@CraftingGummi When he comes the Pokemon Masters EX, this child definitely gonna kill someone.

[@charlotteshenkenberger345]

Silver: Damnit kid, calm down.

[@Crystre]

@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439I hope one of his dialogues is him talking about trying to murder the scarlet/violet protagonist

[@krisdreemurr3533]

*Ash: who are you?*

[@Taijirai]

Honestly, I really like Kieran's negative character arc. In a time where Pokemon characters are all too happy to lose to you, its refreshing for someone to just get invested in. It's hard to feel invested in the journey when you have no one to struggle against but yourself. I hope Kieran becomes a truly great rival in Part 2

[@GatorEX]

Oh yeah. I think Nemona was fun in the base game, but she kind of was in the same vein as Hau from Sun and Moon. Between Carmine and Kieran in this, I think we’ve gotten some great additions as rivals. It’s funny because Kieran starts out similarly to what we’d expect, sort of a Wally figure, but as we move on and especially into part 2, he’s a lot more antagonistic and it’s personal for him unlike others. Looking forward to seeing how it all concludes.

[@yaboi-rowlet]

Hop and sorta Bede also go through an arc

[@iloveyourmomalot1one]

He was a pushover for my champion run of teal mask. But played a new game and he was insane, he's gotta have a speed boosting nature on that yanma cuz it'd waste have my team every time. I'm with gator on this. He's gonna be terrifying in the Indigo Disk.

[@iloveyourmomalot1one]

​@@yaboi-rowletYeah, I had always been a defender of Hop. His brother is the best trainer that Galar had ever seen. And then his childhood best friend wrecks him and becomes champion and saves the world. Of course he's gonna get upset. And the passive aggressiveness was great. I wish we would have got more story with Bede and could see why it mattered so much for him rather than him just be a dick, then commit vandalism in broad daylight.

[@Whispernyan]

@@iloveyourmomalot1one Yeah but Hop runs into the opposite problem. I love hop, but like dude, you're literally the second strongest trainer in your region. That would be like if someone went toe to toe with Micheal Jordan, lost, and than gave up on basketball forever. It only reinforces how the entire world revolves around the player.

[@makeeeveeacupcake]

kieran is my favorite dlc character. i love him, and its a shame that he lost all mental stability and is going to murder us

[@pekowhomst7994]

YOURE EVERYWHERE

[@PerpetualIyTired]

Yeah I hated every single moment the game made me lie to him

[@雪者]

I want to hug him when this is all over.

[@Taijirai]

His only crime was loving a false image of his hero. Also stealing its private property

[@questionmarkquestionmarkques]

​@@Taijiraiwasnt really stealing he probably intended to give it back himself the real crime was fighting to keep ogrepon but even then he was hesitating and he knew it was wrong, you can tell he was fighting the urge but his emotions got the better of him

[@Accidental.Creation]

First we get a rival who is already a champion, and now a new rival might turn into a full-blown villain. Love how GameFreak shakes things up lately.

[@jacobfoxfires9647]

I do hope to see that. And his evil team is the BB elite 4. Interesting to see those 4 make a heel turn when Kieran tells them to.

[@BrokenSoulConfession]

Making unexpected twists.

[@kuks0453]

So, to recap SV rivals/friends/partners/whatever: - Already a champion - The professor's son who isn't even good at battles - The leader of the "antagonistic" team - Mean rival that turns nice - Friend who we ourselves turn into a villain I think this is my new favorite gang. Now I only need the Kitakami siblings to meet our Paldean pals to see some interactions between all of them! Just imagine Penny being wholesome to Kieran like how she helped her Team Star friends, and Nemona and Carmine going mental with battles, all while Arven is there just trying to keep everything together

[@se.224]

if they actually wanted to shake things up they would completely get rid of these stereotypes the pokémon series has fallen in the evil team, the rival, the professor, the gym system just overhaul it all or some part of it

[@kuks0453]

@@se.224 The evil team isn't evil but instead you are helping them (also their leader is one of your rivals/friends). Throughout the story you are left wondering if you really are doing the correct thing (not like when team Aqua wanted to flood Earth, they're obviously the bad guys here) The rivals, well we've covered how they are unique in their own ways. The professor is nowhere to be seen throughout the story, then they're revealed to be dead and to be the actual "villain" by almost causing mass extinction bringing creatures from another era. Honestly some of the most influential professors out there, not just giving you your starter and calling it a day. As for the gyms, Alola already ditched them, but even if they return in Paldea they are quite unique from the rest of the series. First, there's no "Champion", multiple people can obtain that rank. And second, the gym challenge feels like an actual job. Gym leaders are just strong people from a certain region that just so happen to fight every now and then in the central plaza of the village.They do this as a part-time job, they have other goals and interests, but make room in their schedule to fight you, and get paid for doing so. It feels more familiar, like a friendly spar. So yeah, while they still use a similar formula, they definitely spiced it up this time. I think this is a right call, since we're talking about a mainline game and not a spin-off. You obviously want to innovate, but still keep what makes Pokémon _feel_ like Pokémon, at least imo.

[@brianh794]

I’ve been wanting a rival like this for a long time - someone who gets pissed off when they lose to you instead of being happy to constantly get beat

[@StoryGamer11]

Hop is right there

[@MikeTheEnforcer]

​@@StoryGamer11Hop wussed out after getting beat and became an assistant. >_>

[@luckyinky7849]

​@@StoryGamer11 Hop is more pissed off at himself rather than you

[@hoangkienvu7572]

Normally rivals tend to beat your ass a couple of times before you manage to beat them so it makes sense that they would be fine with their loss, but Kirean's team is specifically designed by the devs to be easily beaten, so ofcourse he's pissed.

[@itscznben8728]

@@hoangkienvu7572 huh?

[@afmf8700]

I thought Kieran was going to go the Wally route and channel his feelings and use the MC to become stronger by positive means, so I was pretty shocked with all that unfolded later on. I really like how he's portrayed, he feels very much human with human emotions that I can actually see in real people (I don't like that he's suffering tho). He reminds me of Paulo from Pokemas, he also wanted to get strong and had all these conflicts going on that actual people have/feel at some point (and felt too close to home, personally speaking). I'm really looking forward to the next DLC, I want to know what's going to happen with Kieran in the end.

[@jacobfoxfires9647]

I was thinking the same where Kieran was a lot like Paulo. Especially since we reached the end of the villain arc where Paulo ALSO went off the deep end like Kieran. Going to be fun when he gets added into Pokemon Masters.

[@SilenceGlaive27]

This was my first thoughts as well during Kieran’s journey descending into madness lol honestly can’t wait for him to get added to PMEX and interact with Paulo first and foremost, but also the likes of Silver, Lear, Cheren, and even Blue. He may finally form a sync pair with Ogerpon over there too, just my wishful thinking xD

[@BrokenSoulConfession]

Something is off with his heightened negativity, though. It's like there's an external influence somehow. And it all comes back to the idea or concept of wishes hinted in the flashback. The Loyal Three had individual wishes that corrupted them. Perhaps Kieran's to be stronger brought a similar side effect... 😬

[@rossjones8656]

​@@BrokenSoulConfessionor he's just finally broken. Within the spam or a couple of days his world has been torn asunder and he has a crap ton of issues. I've constantly seen this take and while I bet it's true I hope it's not.

[@iloveyourmomalot1one]

​​@@BrokenSoulConfessioni kinda formed a theory from MandJTVs newest meme review. When he punched the shrine the negative emotions from 'the loyal three' at least in part was transfered to him. And that his negative emotions also was the thing that resurrected them.

[@endergeo116]

I never thought i could hate myself ingame so much, seeing me take victory right out of his jaw was one of the most "i won...but at what cost"

[@jacobfoxfires9647]

He had such a bright and cheerful smile. And we took it away.

[@phonepup06]

He didn’t care about operpons feeling at all; despite her wanting to go with you (or whoever she would want to) just since he liked the ogre for so long he thinks he deserves it more.

[@endergeo116]

I never thought Pokemon had the ability to make us the protagonist, feel like an undeserving Mary sue we root against.

[@jacobfoxfires9647]

@@endergeo116 I find it great that Pokemon had managed to hate our own character that we control.

[@theredknight9314]

He was a crazy parasocial simp. He deserved his fate

[@adrianleonce455]

For years, fans kept begging GF for a mean rival to return. GF seems to have finally delivered that wish......but at a cost. If all of you want a mean rival to appear, then you have to make a shy, kind child descend into madness. You get what you always wanted.....with guilt and worry attached to it🙃.

[@KogawaYuri-ENVtuber]

Man that’s so true

[@JustinBrown-hq2yb]

Next is a mean rival slowly turning friendly

[@KogawaYuri-ENVtuber]

@@JustinBrown-hq2yb maybe 🤔

[@edmarcuscabie134]

Oh no we got a really well written rival that made us feel emotions other than annoyance oh the horror 😢

[@KogawaYuri-ENVtuber]

@@edmarcuscabie134 I can sense sarcasm… yeah but seriously I feel really bad 😭

[@GrandCorsair]

I was like "oh crap, he went full yandere on us". I wasn't expecting that.

[@minecraftboi58]

I 100% agree on this

[@RoboticKnight0Z]

Nah he’s not a yandere but really really wants to kill you to get stronger mate.

[@crazyeeveelady3636]

By the end of Teal mask my heart kind of broke for Kieran. It was genuinely kinda sweet seeing how close he got to the pc in the first half and then the dude went on a whole downward spiral right before our eyes. Can't wait to see how it resolves in the Indigo Disk!!

[@unofficialmeme5972]

When I played through the DLC, Kieran's story of growth reminded me of Wally's story. Huge lack of confidence in themselves and issues they're dealing with, until meeting you, and becoming inspired to improve upon themselves more and more, until they've overcome all their personal obstacles. But unlike Wally, Kieran doesn't overcome such problems. He not only becomes obsessed with trying to defeat you, but he also becomes increasingly more frustrated with each battle he has with you that he tries to learn from, on top of being angry at himself for not being strong. It's scary difficult trying to predict what's next for his story especially with the mood swings he gets now and then as well as whatever else may be going on for him. Regardless, I became very invested in the story with the DLC, and I'm excited to see how Kieran's story will conclude.

[@KosmoZer0]

I felt extremely bad for Kieran especially when it was me who took away his lifelong dream of befriending the one Pokémon he idolised for most of his life. Even when he didn't know the true story of the "Loyal" Three and Ogerpon, he felt a connection to Ogerpon and for us as the player character to just take away this opportunity from him even made me feel lousy. If I actually had the option to do so, I would have preferred Kieran to become Ogerpon's trainer but as you astutely pointed out, it's because we are supposed to be the hero of the story and the one that leads everything, everyone else is just living in our world as the main protagonist. To me I felt like scum after the story, I actually started becoming attached to both Carmine and Kieran especially and for Kieran now to hate me as the player character is kind of saddening because I know how he feels on an emotional level, I've experienced those feelings of hate and envy. This was a great video Gator, I'm happy you talked about this.

[@GatorEX]

Oh yeah, I did few bad for him after everything. It could’ve been potentially avoidable, but also that whole thing of the protagonist being the one to own every Pokémon still gets in the way. Think it’s neat we’re seeing that explored a bit more.

[@Mario87456]

Perhaps if Kieran is ever added to Pokémon Master EX they could give him Ogerpon as a sync partner as that would be nice to see him use Ogerpon in some way even if it’s not in the same game.

[@TophatMudkip1174]

👍

[@jacobfoxfires9647]

Maybe the Lousy three were the player all along. For real tho, I do like this since it does flip the script. We ARE the most specialist and most important person. We are the hero. And that means others can’t shine and when they see us doing all the things they can’t, someone is bound to break. We are just doing what we normally do but don’t realize we are making enemies because of it. Leading to Kieran’s joker arc and how he is plotting his revenge on us. It’s interesting to see Pokemon now do this and they got my attention for this DLC and the next one.

[@MikeTheEnforcer]

​​@@Mario87456hell no. Are you guys that blind to ignore Ogerpon's feelings or y'all really trying to force her to go with someone else?

[@luckyinky7849]

I wonder if Kieran received some kind of bullying in Blueberry Academy. I think I remember that the trailers told that the school works with a ranking system, maybe Kieran was in one of the lower ranks and was either bullied by his classmates or ignored because the stronger trainers were more interesting. Kieran also mentions that Carmine does everything for him, he probably meant that for example in duo battles, Carmine is the one that gets the job done because she's more experienced while Kieran usually gets his team KO'd first, leaving Carmine making the whole fight by herself. If you had his social anxiety in the mix which prevents him from talking to other people including people of his own village of birth, it's no wonder Kieran keeps calling himself weak and feels like an outcast. Putting Kieran a little aside, I theorize that the Lousy Three were also bullied before they got the loyal chains. It's mentioned (either by an NPC or in the pokedex I don't remember) that Okidogi lacked physical force, Munkidori was clumsy and dumb and Fezandipidi had dull feathers for a male pheasant. Maybe they were a different pokemon before turning into what they are right now and started feeling extreme jealousy towards those who had the characteristics that they don't have. And then here comes the leader of the group, Dokutaro, who might be using his prey's envy and jealousy to manipulate them easily, along with feeding himself with it. By giving them what they wanted by giving them the Toxic Chains, they gain the sympathy of his hosts and forces them to do crimes as a form of revenge taking on life itself. It's probably Kieran's envy and jealousy that made them all 4 revive after punching the grave. Chances are that Dokutaro could also communicate with him by telepathy and tries to make him believe that the blame comes from the MC since he envies our battle skills and turn him against us. If the game end up turning this way then that would mean that the whole game + the DLC would be focused on bullying : -Team Star leaders getting bullied by their classmates due to their personality or talents -Penny getting ignored and trying to turn against her and Team Star's bullies which backfired a bit -Some Team Star grunts who are kinda bullies joins the team for being cool -Our Koraidon/Miraidon that gets bullied by the other territorial one -The Lousy Three getting bullied by the other Pokemon of their previous species -The Lousy Three bullying Ogerpon after their resurrection -Kieran getting bullied by his classmates because of his weakness and that ended up waking up some darkness in him. In conclusion : bullying sucks

[@somerandomartisthere]

Your telling me I went on this weird emotional ride and the whole lesson to take was “bullying sucks” I love it.

[@Xaonn]

He doesn't need to get bullied at school his sister already does that at the start of the dlc

[@joshuakim5240]

It would be quite a turn and shock if we can speak to some Blueberry academy students and they reveal that Kieran was indeed bullied...but now he's doing the bullying thanks to his new drive to destroy us combined with Dokutaro lending him power as its newest tool. It would also be interesting to see if Dokutaro can take back its boon, perhaps having alternate, weaker forms of the Loyal/Lousy 3 where they get their Toxic Chains taken from them to lose their poison typing but also revert to their original forms (would also make them a bit more sympathetic, seeing that they all took similar paths that Kieran did and ultimately got nothing out of it). It would also lead into the theme of bullying by touching upon how bullying is often a behavioral cycle, with Dokutaro being the literal chain that keeps this cycle turning to its benefit.

[@bessieburnet9816]

There are soany different factors and all parties are in some way at fault, and that's just what makes this story so good!!

[@madisonyomans9004]

When I read the line, we have a ranking system, I was like oh God that’s not good. If you watch animes with the ranking system in a school setting, you know that being the lowest on the totem pole means you’re gonna get heavily bullied by everyone.

[@bluekirby_64]

As much as I hate what we, Carmine and Grandpa did to Kieran and hope he gets better, part of his angst is his own fault. Dude built a whole parasocial relationship with Ogerpon and thought she should've stayed with him because of that, when she didn't even know who he was or what he was feeling towards her.

[@lightdarksoul2097]

It's like a fan falling for a celebrity

[@V.U.4six]

Yeah it’s definitely not wholly his fault but he’s still part of the problem…I understand that “for plot” ogerpon chooses us but putting that aside…ogerpon has her own feelings and he can’t force her to connect with him in the way he wants. If he did win (and I mean plot wise) then it’d probably be ogerpon reluctantly going with him looking back at you in sadness because she doesn’t get to go with you😅

[@andrewharris1344]

I agree with this whole part of me feels bad for him, he’s not exactly a saint either and looking at it from what we saw in the story. He didn’t really do much to connect with Ogerpon I mean he was gone during the mask retrieval part, only to come at the end and say Ogerpon leave that person who helped you get your prices possessions back, and come with me because I really want you. Honestly him getting Ogerpon would’ve made less sense.

[@HabitualThinker]

He’s part of the problem, but even then he’s such a small part of it compared to what we did. He wouldn’t have turned out the way he did had the story gone literally ANY differently

[@chickennugget5990]

he's literally like 12

[@TheJayeagle]

I just hate that I got railroaded into lying to him.

[@BobbleCube]

I almost wanted to give him ogerpon, his arc was genuinely so good- that scene where he punched the wall was actually really cool- really happy to see Pokémon try different things

[@davidstinger1134]

The thing is Ogerpon wants to be with you, because you helped her with something that was very important to her. Meanwhile Kieran decided to just do things in the background, so Ogerpon barely knows him.

[@Sparkarnation]

Not to mention, did Kieran did stalk Ogerpon before the story. He basically looked at her home and possibly find it uncomfortable.

[@a.s.raiyan2003-4]

This DLC honestly has a well made story with characters getting significant character development. Can't wait to see more of what happens between the siblings.

[@tysondennis1016]

Kieran: “Unfortunate” doesn’t begin to describe my series, this game rewards blind luck and nothing else, I am beyond convinced at this point.

[@itscznben8728]

what’s this a reference to?

[@tysondennis1016]

@@itscznben8728 A guy named Lavos who got cucked so hard by RNG that he went full anime villain

[@ZekoNeko12]

This storyline made not having a choice in anything hurt even more. I connected a lot with kieran personally. Being sheltered growing up and then having the chance to make a friend was so freeing when I saw it with him. I cant wait to see what role he plays in the part 2 of the dlc other than a rival.

[@bacd-nn2lg]

Carmine had nice story character development in this dlc starting as angry distrustful individual, but at the end she opeans up. Kieran on other hand starts as a shy, nice character, but at the end of the DLC his darkness takes over, and transforms into a power hungry villain obsessed with power (just like Darth Sidious in Star Wars).

[@mauroperez2848]

I saw a lot of people talk about Kieran and how he changed from the start to the end of the Teal Mask. I do agree that he has a lot of issues that came from his family. I also feel like I'm one of the few people that actually enjoyed Carmine. Yes, her attitude and her telling us to keep the truth about Ogerpon from Kieran wasn't smart, but I do understand why she did it. Think about it: you wouldn't want your younger brother to chase after a "monster" in the middle of the night and disappear without a trace or end up dead. Carmine does care about her younger brother, she just needs a better way of expressing it. Kieran also seems to have some lack of emotional maturity from said issues hence his not taking the losses well. I do hope that Indigo Disk helps to flesh the two out more and become better people. I am somewhat excited to see just how strong Kieran will become during the inevitable rematch but also concerned knowing that he intends to put me into the dirt with extreme prejudice. There is also the whole Dokutaro influencing his actions leading to him doing something crazy in part 2.

[@BrokenSoulConfession]

The Dokutaro rumor, if you ask me, that fourth member has already infested Kieran. Likely after he accidentally caused the Loyal Three to be revived. Those three were bound by toxic chains. Perhaps it's a metaphor to how Kieran is bound by his self damaging emotions (jealousy, etc). So Dokutaro is already feeding off his negativity somehow.

[@TruffleAntylamon]

If the whole Dokutaro corrupting Kieran theory it's going to be true, I hope that once we beat him, he for the most part goes back to his sweet self that we see in the beginning. I love this boy. Haven't liked a rival character in a very long time. I also hope that he opens up to his family and let's them know how he feels.

[@Hexium_Vexium]

That makes at least two of us that enjoyed Carmine, then. ^^ And yes, I agree that Carmine's heart was in the right place. Telling Kieran about Ogerpon, right after we first saw her? Yeah, no; Kieran would've absolutely taken off into the night, excited and unwilling to listen. Trying to keep him in the dark was also, in my opinion, from a place of love and care around that same thought of 'Kieran could run off and possibly never return'. Does that mean it was the RIGHT choice? Would he have run off if we'd just been straight with him about seeing Ogerpon? It was likely, but does that mean it was THE only outcome?

[@Xaonn]

i mean, he's like 12. I'm not expecting peak emotional maturity from a middle schooler

[@EdgardoJCruz-dk5kv]

Kieran is what happens when you take Wally, remove the illness, and replace his over protective yet supportive family, with an emotional abusive & neglectful one.

[@JonAschenbrenner]

I sensed darkness in Kieran's heart when he was ranting about Florian being miles ahead of him in the Pokémon Trainer sense. That'll have a significant effect on his later era I'm sure. As Baylan Skoll from the Ahsoka Disney+ Star Wars series said, "Impatience for victory leads to defeat."

[@demi-femme4821]

Kieran has begun his Vergil arc. Soon we will get the game about Kieran hiring Kieran's sister and Kieran's son to defeat Kieran so that Kieran can become Kieran featuring Kieran.

[@shaylynn926]

I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING! I had to, I'm sorry-

[@luckyinky7849]

@@shaylynn926 PROVOKING

[@mavericktjo4548]

​@@luckyinky7849 BLACK CLOUDS IN ISOLATION

[@InfamousTrainer]

We HURT HURT that man, but I truly LOVED his character. We literally create a VILLAIN! I can't wait to see his road to becoming stronger in the Indigo Disk. BUT to rub salt in the OGRE wound, I plan on using Ogerpon for my battle with him as well lmao!

[@GatorEX]

Oh man, you’re right, we’re gonna have the chance to use Ogerpon 😂

[@Mario87456]

@@GatorEX Hopefully he will have special dialogue for Ogerpon if you have her on your team and I plan on having her on my team as well.

[@YangTheAce]

Oh boi let me tell ya. I used Ogerpon in my fight against a competitive Kieran. He used a Prankster Grimmsnarl and a Hydrapple against her cuz he is still pissed at us and even more for using Ogerpon against him so he targets her because he wants Ogerpon out of his sight.

[@Mario87456]

Hopefully Kieran by the end of DLC will become better as I don’t want him to be evil forever. If that peach Pokémon Dokutaro does appear however it’s indeed possible that the Pokémon is responsible for why Kieran began acting the way he did as after all The Loyal/Lousy Three were somehow revived by Kieran and it would make a lot of sense if Dokutaro is responsible considering it’s implied that peach Pokémon is the actual leader of those three Pokémon.

[@phoenixandy]

This is one of the times that I wish that the player character didn’t always have “plot armor”, if that’s an accurate term for this situation. The player character always gets to catch the legendary Pokémon. If given the option, I really would’ve let Kieran catch Ogerpon. Like imagine, you admire this creature of folklore only to find out your sister and new friend met this creature and kept it a secret from you. Not only that, but your new friend (who doesn’t even live in the town and is on a school trip for what would probably realistically be like a week or so) meets the creature you admired and is able to catch it and take it with them. This plot just makes me feel bad for Kieran, it’s not like he did anything wrong 😢

[@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439]

Or you know, give us an option to have it first for Pokedex entry then give him back.

[@Komacherry]

I can understand why Kieran would react like this. He was an outcast, his sister is mean to him and he was lonely. He idolized Ogerpon and he thought it would be the only one who can accept him and be friends with him. But that chance was snatched away from him by us (the player) now he’s angry and jealous at the player for taking away his chances at befriending Ogerpon. I am interested to see what they will do with him in Indigo disk. I felt a bit bad for taking Ogerpon away from Kieran since I understand why he would feel this way and that he was my favorite character in the dlc :( however Ogerpon has feelings too so she picked the player over Kieran and I can accept that too. Ogerpon is cute so I’ll keep her.

[@KogawaYuri-ENVtuber]

Exactly my thoughts Ogrepon is absolutely adorable 💖

[@Mario87456]

Yep she is adorable and she is going to be on my team for the rest of the DLC and besides it will be interesting having female only Pokémon on my team as I have never had a all female Pokémon species on my team before as I prefer having all my Pokémon as well whenever possible since I am male myself.

[@KogawaYuri-ENVtuber]

@@Mario87456 oh ok cool

[@Fenyxclips]

Kieran's arc was honestly quite the surprise to see. After so many rivals that just accepted defeat, it felt refreshing to have one not wanting to accept it. Even when he wasn't chosen by Ogrepon, he had an opportunity to better understand her but chose to not help with the Lousy Three. Not to mention how challenging he was before fighting the Pokémon. Spending time preparing a team for when it comes to the next part of the DLC, as it feels like a homecoming in a way. Kieran really would need to prove to be a challenge even against a fully maxed out team. Only makes sense for him, knowing he WANTS to defeat us.

[@takenname8053]

So the real villain was the friends made along the way?

[@squidgiemouse3678]

My biggest flex is that I COMPLETELY called he was gonna be a bad guy from the trailers. I remember watching the Pokémon direct with my partner, and there was a scene where he was facing against some wall with his hands balled into fists or something like that, and IMMEDIATELY was super suspicious of him. I haven't played the DLC nor do I intend to, but I'm actually really excited to see how his arc continues

[@LucarioSmash246]

regarding Ogerpons choice i have a question: "Who would you rather choose: someone who has helped/be nice to you or someone obsessed with you?"

[@LucarioSmash246]

I wonder how many people missed this line "It all started 'cause I said we should keep the whole Ogerpon thing a secret"

[@SaiOkami777]

If keiran truly cared about ogrepon, wouldnt he want her to be happy ?

[@mapleream]

I feel really bad for Kieran the moment I realized we would be getting Ogerpon - it felt like no matter what he'd have a tragic story. It was his dream and literally all he talked about. I hope BB really turns him around and gives him a happy ending.

[@Prauwlet213]

He is without a doubt one of the best written characters out there in any game I’ve ever played. I just wanna hug him 😞. I wanted to give him the ogre so bad 😔

[@lestervalentin5418]

Bro i literally thot kieran was supposed to be sort of a romantic interest to the player at first ala xy shauna coz he really looks like he s crushin on the player character. But then everything happened and u know what i fucking like him even more. Btw my heart literally broke during that first scene when carmine asked us to keep ogerpon a secret from kieran and when he asked us about it and we lied his first assumption was just "oh so ur probably just talking about me behind my back" and delivered that so casually like 💔💔💔

[@tempertenchi]

I love Kieran.. I really cant blame him for anything really. I cant help but hope he and the player character get to make up properly.. this DLC honestly made me feel terrible. I know its probably seen as silly or immature for my age but I get genuinely attatched to fictional characters especially in pokemon. I dont really have a "type" pun not intended lol but certain characters just click for me. like in swsh I wanted to comfort Bede when he lost his challenger status. and while we do get to "go find him" sorta we dont get to say much to him just an option of "i cant waste time" or "i can waste time" lol seeing as we barely ever have much point to our small amount of dialgue options, I was really upset that the game forced me to lie to Kieran twice. I get that on his own, it would have been dangerous. but we are the player character? we most all have pokemon like MEWTWO, CHIEN-PAO,MIRAIDON, GROUDON we could totally have protected Kieran if we needed to. I think pokemon has already missed an opportunity for a good/bad ending scenario. that being said I'm enjoying Kitakami, and I'm really hyped for part 2,I'll just be happy to see Kiki again.

[@pandadoesayt]

I’m so torn on Kieran. On the one hand, I refuse to be held responsible for his “redditor who thinks he’s the Joker” arc when Carmine is right there and is just… REALLY not the best sister; her softening up to us doesn’t erase how badly she’s treated Kieran up to meeting us (and honestly might just end up being some extra salt in the wound). But on the other hand, Kieran as a character is a really refreshing change of pace from how the friendly rival trope has been since… man idk, gen 5? It’s a good thing that I’m so conflicted about him, there’s some nuance in a mainline (non-Legends) Pokémon game! There’s gonna be a lot to think about going into Indigo Disk and I just really hope it all pays off and the kid can chill out.

[@somerandomartisthere]

Honestly I refer Carmine as a “sinner of Pride” person, because she’s full of herself big time. Now that I think of it, it’s funny because you could associate both Kieran and Carmine with the Seven deadly sins, Carmines Pride, and Kieran is like envy or wrat(I say wrath because he’s probably lashing out at us in the next part of the dlc.)

[@gemninja1197]

Thank you,I feel people are placing to much blame on our character and overlooking Kieran, Personally I saw our character not telling as a show of "that's not my place."and our character was about to tell him about what they saw but was stopped by his sister.(You also can tell our character really wanted to tell him since we don't have an option to not tell him,we just get us straight up saying it and is getting cut off)I can see his feelings of betrayal as him looking at someone he saw as a friend do what he wanted,(I don't consider our character blameless in the sense of telling him,but my most blame is on his sister and grandpa, especially since they knew all this stuff and treated him this way long before we came along)

[@pandadoesayt]

@@gemninja1197 no I completely agree! Our character certainly isn’t blameless, but we are (as we’re repeatedly told) an outsider to the whole thing. Of course, Kieran is a sad little anime boy, so it was almost guaranteed that he’d be the victim of oversoftening by fans one way or another

[@meta527II]

I love how Kieran looks suspicious-looking in his official artwork, but in his in-game model he looks cute and innocent-looking.

[@Illusion517]

One problem I have with his arc is that I feel people are a little too quick to forgive him after indigo disk. He ruthlessly tore down the members of the club, relentlessly bullied them for being weak, and constantly threatened to kick them out. It makes me like Drayton a lot more than I already did. He seems ready to give Kieran another chance, but certainly isn't going to let him forget what he did. Which is a good thing. Yes, you could view it as an 18-20 year old bullying a 13-15 year old, but I feel it's more him making sure Kieran learns from his mistakes instead of just moving on without consequence. Though I'd be lying if I said a part of it isn't just Drayton enjoying getting back at him

[@fluffyraichu9706]

I just feel really bad for him and he deserved so much better. And for some reason, a lot of people hate him :[ I never thought that I could hate my own player character so much. I wanted to just slap my player character and tell him to cut that shit out and to not do that shit to Kieran.

[@V.U.4six]

I do hope we can reconcile with him in the second part of the dlc instead of forever being “enemies”… It’s not one person’s fault, like you said it’s partially his own as well as Carmine & grandpa’s and unfortunately our player’s fault (not that we had a choice though ugh)

[@Azrael2294]

I literally felt like crap at the end of teal mask. I just want Kieran to be my shy friend again. 😭

[@13CrystalHeart]

I'm so happy we finally have a friendly rival potentially becoming an antagonist and growing resentful towards the player for constantly one-upping them. This is something I've asked for for years! (Hopefully, it's not a giant massive disappointment like it was with Paulo from Pokémon Masters) I really can't wait to see what they do with him!

[@alpha-sama]

The interesting thing about Kieran is that his character has a domino effect: -At first he gets angry because he gets the feeling Carmine is trying to steal his best friend, not knowing she's trying to protect him. -When Kieran overhears the true story of Ogerpon he should understand why he hasn't been told the truth, but his lingering anger causes him to abandon rationality. He questions you about it and gets even angrier when you lie about it, even though he knows you're lying for his sake. -Kieran's ever growing anger causes him to act based on emotion and he does things even he realizes are stupid such as running off with the mask and letting out his anger on you by challenging you on multiple occasions. -When Ogerpon chooses you as his partner, this hits Kieran deeply on a personal level. He's loved and supported Ogerpon even when everyone thought of it as a villain and put in a lot of work to clear its name. In his mind it's unfair that you just waltz in and claim Ogerpon when Kieran 'clearly' deserves it more. When you defeat Kieran and catch Ogerpon, that's what pushes him over the edge. His built up anger along with this very personal blow causes him to see you as the enemy. And now he wants revenge.

[@MomoDearestt]

And now I just wanna be his friend. 😢

[@kaidaw6546]

As an older sibling, I DEF understood her thought process and I'm happy to see this mentioned. My brother and I are now adults, so it would play differently if it was today; but if it was anywhere in the kid-teenager range, I would absolutely not give him a reason to be running to the mountains late at night. I was raised being bombarded with 'being a good example' for my younger brother so I'm always hyper aware of what 'problematic things' (for that age) i might be doing. And if I am doing anything like that, my options are pretty much to not involve my brother in anyway and keep it out of his sight. Not only that, at that age, neither of us were particularly mature. We were both jerks to each other (both intentional and not) which complicated things later on for both of us - which interestingly, a similarly thing is happening to these two in the games. We're both pretty good now I think and I'm very curious to how Kieran's story will go. I think one of my biggest fears is if my younger brother ever falls off the deep end or something. So I'd be curious to see Carmine's response would be to Kieran's changes.

[@tuntalia]

I love how the protagonist has to experience their own negative impact on another trainer, they are at a loss for words canonically and are roped into interpersonal drama, and their task is knocking Kieran down a few pegs, with no choice in the matter. We are doomed to watch his downfall, we are doomed to FACILITATE it. Scarvi really laid into the main character curse. God I love Kieran's role in the story and how well executed it was

[@mewdreamer]

I was pretty surprised with how Kieran's story turned out in the DLC. He definitely gave off some Wally vibes to me in that he was a shy rival with confidence issues, but he slowly became more angry with every defeat instead of learning to overcome his issues. It's a huge reversal from how rivals are normally handled in the series, which is pretty cool. Admittedly, I felt worst defeating Hop since we got to more time to flesh out his character. connection to the player character and saw his struggles, but I still felt bad for Kieran, especially with that last battle. I'm more mixed on Carmine. She does have some nice moments opening up to the player character and she clearly does care about her brother, but her attitude still came off a bit too cocky and stuck up for my tastes. Even when you try to find out more about the Loyal Three's locations, she acts as if gathering information is beneath her. She does show improvements, but it just isn't really enough. I don't think wanting the player character to be her underling after you defeat her left a good first impression for me either. Plus, keeping Ogerpon a secret from Kieran felt largely unnecessary. I don't blame her for not mentioning it during the festival. Kieran running off into the mountains at night could have been dangerous. Keeping it a secret afterwards didn't really seem necessary, especially when she kept being rude and dismissive of Kieran, not really realizing the problem until it was too late. Their grandfather definitely has a large part of the blame too. Not telling Kieran despite how much he loved Ogerpon didn't make sense. Honestly, keeping the truth about the legend from the town people in general seemed pretty unnecessary when they were unrealistically willing to accept it after Kieran told them. Personally, I'd take Nemona over Carmine, if only because she was much more likable. Carmine could improve for me when the next half of the DLC comes in and I am curious about where they're going to go with Kieran too.

[@AstaoftheEclipse]

If I wasn’t already hyped for the Indigo Disk, I definitely am now. And I was before. I’m loving the potential villain arc for Kieran. And I actually like friendly rivals.

[@ChampMik3Y]

Kieran's descent was interesting, but in the 2nd part of the DLC, maybe near the end, I hope he returns to his regular self. I want to see the main character and him be great friends again.

[@lulugaj5859]

the school trip with randos is so relatable to me. thats how all of my school trips fell. i am just there sitting with bunch of randos...

[@electroneurons]

Truly a kieran moment

[@CeaselessEntertainment8468]

If Kieran comes to the anime he could finally catch Ogerpon since The whole Riko arc wouldn't fit with Ogerpon stuff but I could see her helping him out

[@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439]

At worst, it can be something like "Look Ogerpon, Kieran helped you to come to village after saying the truth, don't you think he deserves a chance?" or similar and I feel like he would have been still happy to be around of his favorite Pokemon. If they really still want to push him to become a villain, Dokutaro can manipulate him saying "You deserve Ogerpon than her, they are just trying to make you feel better, cause they are afraid of your true power" or some dumb thing and boom, problem solved.

[@LordEmpyreal]

I love Kieran's villain arc. Especially since it's juxtaposed directly with Ogrepon's arc. Right now Kieran sees our character, his sister, and his grandpa as his own story's Loyal Three. To him, we are the villains who hurt him, and he is the innocent one being beaten down and shunned. What he can't see is that unlike Ogrepon's story we actually *are* the heroes and he is actually becoming a villain. Unfortunately a lot of the community seems to have missed the point and just think he's whiny and was out of line challenging us for Ogrepon. In a series where fighting to earn a Pokemon's loyalty has been a part of it since the beginning. Far as I can tell Ogrepon seemed just fine with the arrangement, and Kieran would have had to defeat Ogrepon to catch it just like we did, so it only makes sense the strongest of us get the chance to.

[@jarrodkopf6813]

I feel Kieran reminds me of Wally, but Wally fell to the "Dark Side" after losing to the player trainer.

[@TreyC68]

We could possibly see Kieran doing a hostile takeover of Blueberry Academy with us the protagonist and Carmine having to stop him and Kieran ending up hurting Carmine

[@ziqi92]

Kieran is literally a nice guy who did not take rejection well.

[@luckyinky7849]

I'm glad Gamefreak is making a young rival turning evil because of our own fault and seeing the progression of the corruption instead of having a protag coming while the villains are already devious to fix everything. It brings a new flavor to the table of the villain's catalog. Kieran just became my favorite DLC character not only because he's becoming evil but also because I relate to him because he reminds me of me around his age (the French version says he's 14 btw)

[@V.U.4six]

Well they forced us to lie it’s not like we had a choice 🙄

[@luckyinky7849]

@@V.U.4six that's the bad part unfortunately... I wish we could have an option to deescalate thing even if it's just a little

[@Mario87456]

@@V.U.4sixIt’s genuinely frustrating that we are forced to lie to him, like why? Can’t we be allowed to tell at least some of the truth?

[@shuichisaihope398]

Ive seen someone else comment that in the french version it says outright that he's 14? The English version just says he's a teenager and its even less clear in the Spanish version as it says he's just going through puberty. What character confirms his age?

[@meteor9573]

@@shuichisaihope398 Carmine.

[@ManaTheSacrifice]

he is still my favorite, he is just a baby.. even after becoming rival!

[@resurrectedbrawler]

I feel really bad for Kieran. He was a fellow Kaiju enthusiast, but now that he has become mentally unstable... I just want to hug him & tell him that you don't need to be strong & just be a good person.

[@AnthanKrufix]

I feel like most of Gen 9 has been themed around inverting good-guy/bad-guy dynamics. Characters who're stereotypically protagonists ending up as antagonists, and vice versa. The villainous team of the generation Team Star, ending up as protagonists is one thing, that's been done once or twice before.. But then there's also the likes of the invariably protagonist Professor, turning out to be the main antagonist.. The malfunctioning AI which in literally every other piece of media ever would end up trying to kill/enslave humanity thanks to their unfeelingly logical programming... ends up rebelling against the evil agenda they were programmed to fulfil and turning good.. Multiple other examples in the base game. ... And then in the Teal Mask it's *_ALL_* about similar themes, with the village's heroes turning out to have been bandits and their monstrous enemy turning out to have been their victim. Dickish bully rival, and meek friendly rival, swapping personalities by the end of the plotline. And even at multiple points *_you, the player character's own_* status as a protagonist gets called into question with you Eusine-ing and shattering a kid's dreams just because you're the chosen one...

[@kieranwrightstone2199]

Well…for that monologue alone deserves a like.

[@chriskagamine358]

I've been a Pokemon fan my entire life, and this DLC was the one time where I just wanted to give up Pokemon altogether. How they handled Kieran made me feel physically ill. I appreciate your take on this, and I hate how, being the protagonist, you are treated as the good guy for helping bully a kid just because protagonists get all the pokemon

[@BrokenSoulConfession]

There is a weird brainwashing or mind controlling aspect here, though. Even Carmine herself said Kiki suddenly started acting odd. And it all escalated further once he punched The Loyal Three monument. And Carmine just said that the Crystal Pool allowed people to see the dead sometimes. Perhaps Kieran's jealousy accidentally unleashed the rumored 4th member of the trio. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@imbaconplate8872]

I absolutely loved kierans story, I honestly though the dlcs will focus more on Carmine but kieran was very surprising. He honestly didnt deserve to be abandoned and shoved to the side like that

[@tenseishiyou]

watching my son gradually turn into a villain throughout the course of the DLC was… an experience.

[@love4teacups]

Glad you called out the grandpa

[@Fang1st]

Yeah, I feel so bad for Kieran, sure you can argue that he was acting like a baby at the end or he could have handled it better than he did, but think about it, his dreams of meeting and befriending an 'ogre' that everyone else hates, finally making a new friend and feeling some happiness, having someone to talk to other than his abusive sister who berates him and orders him around (She may love him and care for him but she hides it too much for someone in his position to really notice.) and because the game forces you down a specific path it all just crumbles away and he has nothing left. I'd probably have a bit of an emotional breakdown myself if all that happened in the span of a day or two, lol. Slight Spoilers for Indigo Disk: And then Carmine flips a switch and starts acting worried about him all of the sudden, as if she has no idea why he'd be upset. Chalk it up to her ignorance if you want, but it is mostly her fault. Some fault to the grandpa for sure for being silent about Ogrepon, though I suppose he didn't want Kieran to run around and try to convince others without any actual proof and be outcasted, Carmine actively insulted him while she lied about seeing the Ogre. And fault falls onto the planned-out path storyline that we can't divert at all to at least attempt to make it seem like we could help him in any way, lol.

[@tryorse8340]

Kieran saying "stronger" repeatedly and more crazily reminds me of the ash greninja transformation line

[@itscznben8728]

what is it?

[@tryorse8340]

@@itscznben8728 ash says some variation of stronger stronger stronger right as Greninja is about to transform

[@spoopyoz3061]

I feel like a lot of Kieran’s anger could have been consoled of Carmine and Granpa didn’t unintentionally make Kieran feel isolated from his friend. The worst part is Carmine pressing the mc into keeping their mouth shut and also Carmine for invalidating Kieran’s feelings by simply reducing them to “teen angst”. Yes, Kieran did get his hopes up to high to the point of feeling entitled to Ogerpon and Kieran is wrong for that. However, I feel like we don’t bring up enough how Carmine ultimately let Kieran down as a big sister.

[@namerif731]

Kieran is basically a "nice" guys to Ogerpon when Kieran revealed the secret to the town about Ogerpon he didnt do it because it was something that needed to be done but rather Kieran doing it to impress Ogerpon. I love how they wrote him because by finding out Ogerpon was actually the good guy made Kieran basically believe that everyone was wrong to doubt his ability and he was a hero in some way basically stealing Ogerpon's status and making it his own and i feel Ogerpon saw this.

[@triforceofcourage100]

It really feels like we came in and stole Kieran’s character arc out from under him. Say he became Ogerpon’s friend and he’s the one fighting to grow strong and mature for his new friend getting to know her and he might understand her better. Then he finally beats his narcissistic sister and finally gets out from under her thumb and finally as she gets properly put in her place. I understand that she’s playing a near tsundere type character but that doesn’t really make her actions towards her younger brother acceptable, if I had to guess this incident acted as the straw that broke the camel’s back on years of mistreatment but since we took everything from him we became the target instead of Carmine.

[@pity_me011]

i love Kieran he reminds me of myself when i was a kid carmine on the other hand is nothing like my older sister

[@layerex3957]

4:28 Maybe the time wasn't right because, like you said, Kieran isn't emotionally mature. Kid would've probably gone bonkers.

[@thornykettle112]

It seems like Kieran's story is a continuation of where Volo's story left off

[@michaelcollins2030]

I like the little reference to Ogrepon with Kieran having Yanmega the Ogre Darner Pokemon

[@standardhuman8675]

he can have ogrepon, i dont care, i just want him to be happy. hes just a babey

[@fieryfafar]

kieran easily snaked his way into my heart the moment i saw his clenched fist in the trailer. i knew i need to get the dlc coz i need some rival bastardization. fun fact! kieran is technically the 2nd rival to go thru this. if u count pokemon masters ex, paulo went thru a similar journey where he started to grow jealous n insane with power everytime he loses to the protag. man did snap when somethng happened but to see a rival turned villain is a nice fresh start. so yea i expected kieran to be in wally archetype but to see him snap? ough chefs kiss. also to point out to me hop didnt snap coz protag is his bff so he has mixed feelings. but kieran just knew the sv protag n + his immaturity he really doesnt knw hw to control his obssession (from wanting ogerpon to wanting to defeat protag no matter what) so yea long story short i LOVE kieran. ive always wanted a rival turned villain and i cant wait to get absolutely frustrated in battling him n his competitive team. ill get wiped in the 1st try for sure but thts ok hes cute ❤ amazing video! thank u for this! really makes me miss the lil guy. also side note the jpnese fandom is crazy over him. so many yandere fanarts of kieran in a span of a week since release. ive been fed well

[@Nishanth_mementomori]

I don't know if gamefreak would go there but man I hope Teal Mask becomes his villain origin story and Indigo Disk will make him a full on psychopath 😂

[@Broomer52]

We have experience with Pokémon trainers that care only about strength. They’re never kind people. By the end of it strength is all that matters to him, this is absolutely his villain arc

[@tsunertoo9149]

Seriously I was thinking like "Watch the protag by the reason Kieran becomes the leader of a new team rocket type team". It'd really cement this generation solidly if not only does the protag for once fail to save the day by doing the one thing the protag is good at doing (winning) but the results creating a ripple effect of destruction

[@Zenex4504]

this kid acted like a crazed stalker fan and believed ogerpon was his and only his then went nuts when he got rejected

[@CreekBoltGaming]

HE SAID WOWZERS,I LOVE HIM.

[@robertgray3710]

He’s actually my favorite rival. Still easy since my team was all level 100 but he still took down 1 or 2 of my mons. And I’m calling it. Briar is gonna exploit Kieran in the state he’s in to try and use terrapagos for a scheme.

[@owenw.1643]

im so invested in kieran as a character. i love scarlet and violet's writing and im so excited to see more of him.

[@levimorton483]

3:37 Nice Yu-Gi-Oh reference! I recall that episode, Fate of the Pharaoh, it was. Yami Yugi lost to Raphael after Yami foolishly played the Seal of Orichalchos. Raphael won without the help of the seal, having Yami fall to his own cards, and Raphael's own Guardian Eatos. Yugi Moto, cut off from Yami by the seal, decided to use the power of the Millennium Puzzle to break the Seal and sacrifice himself for Yami, even after all Yami did to his monsters. This is already spoiling the Waking the Dragons arc of Duel Monsters, but that arc is my favorite one behind the finale of Dawn of the Duel.

[@Kieranpokemonsisliterallyme]

Honestly, the infantilisation of Kieran combined with his being bullied by Carmine and people at school as well as Kieran's autistic traits really make him come across as an autistic-coded character that is misunderstood and failed by those around him, which is what causes him to snap. Every autistic person, myself included, can relate to him.

[@sorryformyenglishiguess1581]

As an autistic person all I can say is SAME

[@Akursedtime]

I....can.....fix him. I can 😂

[@GumbaIIism]

SPOILER BELOW: There is actually a secret Pokemon which is the one that gave the "Loyal" Three's powers to them but it seems like the chain controls them and when Kieran punches the shrine, a purple mist is seen around his fist. So maybe the Pokemon is starting to have a hold of Kieran.

[@markkiefer3243]

Kind of refreshing to see a rival who will actually say "THIS IS SOME BULLSHIT!" Rather than "Good job pushing my shit in!"

[@Lumavah]

I like how both DLCs basically just amount to us NTRing Kieran of his legendaries and deposing him from his school's Elite 4.

[@Cyphu]

Id like the option to give him the pokemon tbh. Even if its like 0.001% of the playerbase that does it Id still at least like the choice

[@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman]

Hop and now Kieran... I swear, in 10 years, we will be stealing someone waifu/husbando

[@thequeenvsslime1]

the fact kieran says "what cant you do you are like the hero in a story" is an insult not a complement since by now you know the so called "heroes" the loyal 3 are the villains is briliant writing

[@megamonVCG]

Also at the end of the dlc Kieran wants to get stronger to eventually beat the protagonist is kinda cool

[@jennifera.4511]

Maan, I've never hated myself in-game that much like in this DLC, and it was GOOD! Make the player feel guilty for somehow creating their 'villain' is refreshing after so many Hop-like rivals lol Like, Kieran has been my favourite of the siblings from the start, Carmine and her opressive behavior towards him and the fact the guy couldn't say or do literally anything except of the previously scripted by her was unbearable to me, I hate her character and I don't buy my forced friendship with this girl, she tried to pull an Asuka, but didn't work for me. Kieran simply couldn't have any goals or reactions of his own because of her borderline-y need of control everyone and everything, and then Kieran finds a friend in MC, and what does she unconsciously do to keep MC away from him? She drags MC into that shitty silence pact and for absolutely no reason other than plot, MC obeys when she's not even our friend, Kieran was, and lies to Kieran. And throughout the game Carmine has the nerve to brush off ANY accountability, ugh! Like, okay, without her "mehmehmeh I won't let you tell him" there would be no plot, and Kieran might have his share of the problem for not knowing how to handle losing Ogerpon, but again, Kieran doesn't know how to handle frustration because he's lived in a controlled enviroment his whole life. He's what her crazy sister and his pathetic excuse of a grandpa made him. If were up to me, I would have told him right away, I would have allowed him to stay with ogerpon, while we were outside playing heros and defeating the trio, he's silently taken upon himself the most difficult part in the backstage, he went back to village to convince a hardcore-traditional people that they were wrong in their prejudices, such task in itself was way harder than catching any legendary. What a rival! I love this boi and I'll protect him lmao

[@dethtroy2185]

I mean, it is bad that you and his sister lie to him which causes the downward spiral, but he did make some mistakes on his own that ultimately cost him Ogrepon, such as waking up the loyal 3 (he did punch the alter where they were buried) and you could tell Ogrepon was apprehensive around him since it refused to take the mask from him afterwards. He also choose to remain behind rather than go with you to get the mask's back, sure he clears Orgepon's name in town, but he could've waited until afterwards to do that. Not going with you caused Ogrepon to bond with you the player more as a result. sometimes all it takes is one or 2 bad choices to lose everything, and that's what happened here.

[@ChillingDusselgurr]

Good to know someone else shames the grandpa xD because like, I would get if he thought his grandkids would have to be emotionally mature enough to hear the true story so they realise why it would be risky to tell the other townspeople. So him telling Carmine makes sense but... he also tells his big family secret to a random 12 year old (us) that he met the evening before lol. Leave me out of your family drama old man and send your poor grandkids to therapists I think they need it

[@andresmarrero8666]

That part including the supposed truth just doesn't make that much sense. Why would the villagers hate Ogrepon and her human partner for their looks? Traveling the world is very common in that world even in ancient times, it certainly isn't a new trend, and pokemon come in all shapes and sizes. They didn't seem to have a problem with the mask maker befriending them and it is not like the masks did a good job at hiding their identies anyway. Then there is the bizarre mindset of the grandfather. Why keep this a secret in the first place? At worst it is an alternative account towards a local legend and pokemon are generally understood to not be evil by nature, some nasty and dangerous but few are outright malicious. This is especially true for the current times which is far removed from those events. The whole scenario feels warped and illogical, like it doesn't belong.

[@ChillingDusselgurr]

@@andresmarrero8666 I think it is mostly a nod to people in small Japanese villages being known to be quite xenophobic. Or having been known for that anyway, due to the whole country having been cut off from the rest of the world for a really long time. I agree tho, dunno what the man looked like of course, but I couldn't imagine finding Ogrepon so ugly and fearsome you want her gone, just look at that sweet little friend xD As for why keep it a secret from the village, imo that one makes perfect sense and to me the conclusion that everyone just ended up believing Kieran when he told them the truth was weirder. Because the grandpa outright points out that the original mask maker was persecuted as a heretic for telling them what happened. And he instead kept it a family secret so that his family won't have to suffer the consequences. Just wish they had had the villages be less quick to accept the truth, maybe be outright hostile even, instead of them immediately believing a kid that runs around and tells them the heroes they believed in for like 200 years were fake. Not to mention it's the same kid that seemingly got side-eyed by everyone for being a big fan of the ogre. Not to mention that whole thing happens off-screen. You can see there, as is tradition in these games ig, that not only the production but also the story can be rushed af xD

[@andresmarrero8666]

@@ChillingDusselgurr keeping it a secret doesn't make that much sense either especially since they are so removed from the actual event. It is a different account and the worst that would happen is disbelief but people know the general nature of pokemon so it would be archived and that's it. What would the mask maker be persected for? They had to have known that he was the one making the masks as he was probably the only mask maker and those things were masterpieces, you also can't keep anything a secret in small towns and villages especially when one can just ask the pokemon themselves. There is a difference between trying to shove something down people's throats and saying "they were my best customers. I made those masks and they were probably stolen." The worst he is going to be met with is disbelief which itself doesn't make sense because he was the mask maker and no one had a clue as to what happened. They also aren't stupid and just about anyone can put two and two together about the masks being stolen. So there wasn't a need to keep that a secret in the first place and there are quite a few places where the story falls to peices due to the illogicality and bizarreness behind it. If anything it is more believable that his own family threw the mask maker under the bus given that people would be looking for any sort of explanation and the man's skills as a carpenter is invaluable to the settlement. There is certainly no reason to keep it a secret from the kid as it is the kind of thing that you would tell as a bedtime story. To me it isn't just that the story is rushed, but it is poorly thought out and fails to properly consider the world it is unless that was the entire point and they were going for some subtle lovecraftian or twilight zone vibes with everything not making sense. I am skeptical of that however.

[@fluffy_suna]

I liked him at first and then after a while I was like this dude is giving me a bad vibe, it also doesnt help that he’s the first rival that managed to knock out one of my pokemon (i built the pokemon I was using to be a litteral tank)

[@nicolasmurariu8684]

Bro is not happy😐

[@meganmarchionda1165]

I hated the fact the game forces you to lie to Kieren about Orgepon. I wanted to tell him the truth. Even still Kieren doesn't help his case. He could have helped take down the Loyal Three but chooses not too. Yes he tells everyone the whole story about the Loyal Three but at that point we've bonded with Orgepon. The player is the first person is who knows many years to show her kindness of course she'd want to go with us. I am excited to see where this story goes cause I like Kieren and dont want him to stay a villain

[@nickkelley9139]

Way I see it, grandpa kept the story from Kieran because he knew how the village in the past reacted to the mask maker(the one who made Ogerpon's masks) tried to explain the truth about Ogerpon: THEY WERE MADE A SOCIAL PARIAH. Grandpa knew that if he told Kieran the story, he would try to tell the whole village, and possibly be made into a social pariah. And while the village does accept the truth contrary to grandpa's fears, that doesn't change the fact that grandpa was right about what Kieran's actions would be.

[@startheangel9760]

I feel like he's corrupted by something since it was never explained how the Loyal Three came back to life

[@NAAAAAAAAOMI]

Each and every Pokémon game I’ve seen,heard,lost or won I’ll still have a crush on the most unexpected characters (e.g murderers)