The TRAGIC Origins of Chaos and Tikal | Origin Oracle

[@broccolinyu911]

Actually, Sonic Chronicles Dark Brotherhood expands upon this story. The reason The Knuckles Clan wanted the emeralds is because they were under constant attack by the Nocturnas Clan, who were technologically superior. Hence giving some more validity to Pachacaman's seemingly greedy, warlike nature, which could be seen as desperate.

[@kaistudios5536]

Whoa! That's _actually_ *pretty neat!*

[@Hynotama]

That was a pretty neat expansion on the story, at least until Ken Penders went all Karen on the series. But I had no issues with Pachacaman being a greedy warlord. It helped that the clan was portrayed in ancient times, when morality was looser and more basic and people had ideas like "the well-being of our clan is more important to us than empathy for other people and clans". In a sense, it keeps things more genuine and believable than to tell the story through the lens of current times morality.

[@broccolinyu911]

@@Hynotama Penders doesn't even own the rights to Shade but Sega doesn't wanna spend the time or money dealing with him so they shy away from anything Dark brotherhood related

[@Hynotama]

@@broccolinyu911 I know. It's a real shame!

[@j.e.s.m.4686]

@@broccolinyu911 Wow! I can't believe the main reason why Sega they ignored The Dark Brotherhood because of the whole Ken Penders situation. I wish that he can just shut up for one second. He acts as if he owns the echidna chaarcters and he's the reason why we can't even get Shade to part of the games storyline. I really like her character and it's really interesting to see in the games. Hope the Sonic filmmakers also adapt the Dark Brotherhood to their Cinematic Universe, if not, I'm gonna be dissapointed but still understandable and okay

[@partyrock4144]

It would be neat to see tikal as part of master emerald. Like the reason knuckles is never on angel island is because he’s gathering stories to tell tikal

[@SleepyJoTime]

FINALLY SHE GETS SOME GODDAMN ATTENTION TIKAL IS FR ONE OF THE MOST UNDERRATED SONIC CHARS

[@georgiagalaxy]

I love her too

[@TikalGirl]

🥰

[@dragonswrath1890]

Man now knowing about what happens in frontiers you’re almost dead on.

[@nexas3018]

*“They came from outer space 1000s of years ago”* According to Frontiers, you’re not wrong

[@sunkdid7256]

i cant belive they gave chaos so much emotion even though he dosent talk or even physically show emotion. And in 1998!

[@videogamecollecto100]

I like to think that the reason chaos still makes appearances in future games is because after SA1 he finally started upholding the task of a guardian. The difference is that instead of protecting something ( i.e. knuckles is the current guardian) he instead chooses to protect life, the one thing Tikal wished of him, but understanding that he is a guardian of old and can't really exist for extended periods of time, he uses his borrowed time to strengthen and battle harden the people he sees as the the world's current guardians (sonic, knuckles, tails, ect.).

[@crossfire34]

5:15 Bro, you called it. Great job.

[@TheMentok]

Confirmed by Iizuka in Game Informer interview (7/12/22) - "Chaos is in Heaven"

[@broccolinyu911]

Think you could eventually do one on the Sonic Dark Brotherhood characters as they actually tie in to the Sonic Adventure lore.

[@novatosteamchoopgood1187]

dont go down the mario rabbit hole

[@SmokeTheHorsehog]

So that's why I've been hearing Sonic characters use "Chaos" instead of "God", recently.

[@carnage0685]

That's such a fucking bummer.

[@Cora_dearest]

@@carnage0685ye but at least we got to see him in heros

[@BlueAmpharos]

5:20 My god... you predicted the backstory of Sonic Frontiers! The ancients look very much like Chaos. I mean the water spirit Chaos, the no plural form of chao...

[@sonic23233]

You're not wrong about the Chao coming from space

[@The-Impster]

"The servers are the 7 Chaos Chaos is power... Power enriched by the heart The controller is the one that unifies the Chaos"

[@SmokeTheHorsehog]

Chaos and Tikal are very interesting characters and are probably the deepest alongside Shadow and Maria, even if they aren't arguably as tragic as Gamma or Emerl. However, as great of characters as they are, they do not have much purpose in the later games outside of just being there for fan service sake. With that in mind, while SEGA shouldn't forget about these two characters, they don't need to be relevant or in any more Sonic media anymore.

[@lordpopo6817]

Yeah…about that…

[@SmokeTheHorsehog]

@@lordpopo6817 About WHAT?

[@zacharykenniston748]

Chaos literally saw his children and family murdered in front of him. And was trapped in absolute emotional agony for 3000 years. Destroying his mind.

[@donovanfaust3227]

@@SmokeTheHorsehog well Frontiers happened, so there's that.

[@SmokeTheHorsehog]

@@donovanfaust3227 Well, great

[@mohammadmubarak5612]

the intro is like a 90s commercial for nerf guns ( also chaos should become a ice cube when he’s cold)

[@topspin13]

Tikal force chokes Chaos and then disappears into the sky 😂😂😂

[@TheMentok]

This is my headcanon

[@LocalDimwit]

I'm honestly surprised there's so little content revolving around Tikal as a character, I find her origins and story incredibly interesting, and there's so much to work with in lore. I see plenty of videos, and documents that all go over shadows story in great detail but the love for Tikal is hard to find even when arguably her story is just as dark. It feels like Sega completely forgot about her, heck I think the only time I've seen her in the last like 5 years was the chao in space short and she didn't even talk Sure shadow's character in current game is kinda garbage but add least he's there. I'm really hoping sonic frontiers will do something with tikal, she deserves more spotlight

[@videakias3000]

4:50 that got retconed in sonic frontiers where we learn that he is one of the survivors of that ancient civilization that brought the emeralds on the planet. edit:dammit, I didn't notice that the video was posted before the game came out. any way, I am still leaving the comment here for anyone interested. look up for the "egg memos" if you are interested. it is in egg memo 11

[@King-n00bi3]

Actually chao are probably descendentes of the ancients and chaos took a similar form to their ancestors due to the master emerald neutralising the chaos energy that mutated them into chao, so it still is canon, but instead of them being mutated they unmutated.

[@nialapin]

Tikal is my favorite character along with Cream so I'd LOVE to see her again in the future! 🥰

[@anomaly395]

5:16 *The prophet… has spoken*

[@Mar1n3Sh0j0]

Turns out your theory about the emeralds and chaos being from space is correct!

[@King-n00bi3]

5:17 and that theory was correct! the ancestors of the chao were aliens that arrived on the planet presumably millions of years ago and the only survivors went to angel island and mutated into chao due to chaos energy, or at least that was implied because it seems to be the only way it fits into the lore without retconing anything.

[@HIPHOPHER]

I love seeing the progression of your love for the archie comics.

[@v1de0gam3r2]

PERFECT keep doing what you do,bro

[@TheMentok]

Thanks for continuing to watch :)

[@kamothe1]

Incredible, can't wait for the Rouge video as well as the rest of the Sonic content.

[@NocturnusGame]

I don't know how it took me this long but I'm glad I came across your content. Amazing video.

[@BlueAmpharos]

15:52 Oh... now the lawsuit with Sonic Chronicles makes sense.

[@PepperMistAnimations]

I have yet to finish the other stories from Sonic Adventure, so this blew my mind. Thanks for this awesome video 🙌

[@pinkgamecube]

Great video💖

[@gigithehedgehog8469]

Oh my goodness I almost missed my mention because I was watching this while drawing (Chaos actually so that's ironic.) I just happened to look up at the right time 😂 Great video. I love seeing the concept art. 🤩 .... So, has anyone ever thought about how since Chaos is sort of a chao, he might be affected by small animals? Because I had that funny idea a few days ago and that's what I'm working on now. Hopefully I'll post it to Instagram in the next few days.

[@ShinGoji1987Official]

Great work man! I always loved the final battle in Sonic Adventure, amazing game! Chaos's final form always reminded me of Biollante's final from from the Godzilla series. His other forms are also kinda like Orga's first form from Godzilla 2000 as well haha

[@TheMentok]

Bioantte HAD to be the inspiration! That’s way too close. I honestly think Sonic Team are huge Godzilla fans

[@bignoseman3031]

Even perfect chaos’ cry sounded like biollante’s

[@ShinGoji1987Official]

@@bignoseman3031 Definitely! It was basically a lower pitched version of Biollante's I think

[@davidbuck5675]

2:34 K N U C K L E S

[@nazishhussain2712]

I didn’t know chaos final form was inspired by biolannte

[@lightyoshiman]

"my personal theory is that the came from outer space but I have no concrete proof" man must have as great of foresight as the knuckle clan after playing frontiers

[@WaterMeLoan64]

I am making a Sonic Adventure Animation, so thanks for uploading this video so I can do some research.

[@thefollower2933]

This video and is great, I really love these kinds of deep dives into the lore of franchises I love, and this video really did do chaos and tikal justice. I hadn't seen the rest of this origins series before watching this but now that I saw a few of the other videos, but they're Really good too. I'm now kinda looking forward to the shadow, rouge and cream (specifically with that last one, cream is the best female sonic character, change my mind) video as well as the other non sonic related videos. You just earned a subscriber.

[@Alejandro333777]

15:55 Ian Flynn said they’re not canon

[@kingtero979]

Wow you predicted Sonic Frontiers

[@jacobfoxfires964]

Yeah, just found these videos and seeing him mention the origins of Chao being aliens……… well he isn’t that far off lol.

[@Squritalee]

8:50 cutscene so satsfying

[@DevonBarr]

How crazy is it that he was right about the chai origins

[@pvppro5951]

so , i finali know that tikal isnt only a character for more cutscenes (and i hate unskibable kutscenes) but now i know her origins , thanks Mentok .

[@bjkaye9918]

Playing frontiers, chaoses form makes sense now

[@reggielacey2235]

In the forces prequel comic chaos is in the master emeraldas when a phantom copy of chaos comes out the master emerald he's not shocked or alarmed and just tells silver that chaos is the guardian of the chao

[@nazishhussain2712]

The fleetway chaos remind me of the Alaskan bull worm

[@RianzGoofy]

Damn bro, why are you flooding the comment section?

[@ademaulina7620]

Fleet way chaos is my favorite chaos

[@matthewmccoyd2578]

I wanna see Chaos get a Super form from the GOOD vibes of the Emeralds Like, he'd grow to the size of a Titan mech, and Tikal would be in his chest like the Kokos It'd also be a neat callback to Tikhaos from the Archie run

[@cherry-redghost8337]

As a kid Chaos was one of my favorite characters and I was playing played Mario and sonic Olympic Games on the wii and loved the that you could see chaos as an Easter egg in one minigame

[@cofagrigusfan24]

there is 1 other Archie appearance of them in the Sonic Universe comic in Light Mobius, the future universe that takes place 30 years after the present where Chaos and Tikal's spirit have become 1 being, Tikhaos a being hungry for chaos energy, but knows it can't have any, otherwise it will grow out of control, into Perfect Tikhaos

[@cheezeebutter452]

So, is Chaos now no longer a chao? Since frontiers explicitly retcons Chaos as a remnant of an ancient race that has evolved into something far removed from what it used to be.

[@roboplayer5133]

No-not exactly, Chaos could more accurately say he has taken the resemblances of his species cause the chao are mutated ancients by frontiers lore. Chaos is still related to chao cause he is a mutated chao, and chao are related to the ancient cause some ancients moved to angel island.

[@tragiccreations3695]

It would be crazy if sonic team brings back Chaos and Tikal for another game, i can see Tikal in a team with Silver and Blaze, to represent past, present and future, or the elements water, light and fire. Maybe im dreaming a little bit too much…

[@souley7433]

Bro fucking predicted a plot point of sonic frontiers story

[@nazishhussain2712]

Chaos forms for are giving me god of war and dmc vibes

[@JonyPlayz1]

0:35 Will u do Blaze as well?

[@TheMentok]

Yes 👍🏽

[@JonyPlayz1]

@@TheMentok Yay 👍Lol. She’s pretty underrated tbh

[@videakias3000]

4:00 but he is 15-16 years old, how what happened during all those milleniums? how can he be the sol survivor?

[@nazishhussain2712]

I didn’t know chaos was a chao

[@KylerFlame]

Fun fact, Tikal's father has his eyes closed throughout the game for some reason, probably a glitch

[@Mr.MR2111]

Well, Chaos did make an appearence in Sonic Forces, just to get exploded by classic boy

[@v.m.9198]

Showing Chaos a bunch of chaos hopping about is like showing the last human a bunch of lemurs to show that humanity still exists

[@RianzGoofy]

Mentok, when are we getting a "Rate your Sonic OC" video lol

[@TheMentok]

Genius. Let’s do this soon, I need a break before the next Oracle vid

[@RianzGoofy]

Neato.

[@nella-bella3554]

I would love to see them again but like a prequel before chaos was unleashed. I think they deserve peace after all that crazy shiii. Poor things...

[@nazishhussain2712]

Tikal remind me of mindy from spongebob

[@Granditamias]

You have no idea how long I’ve been waiting for someone other than me to do a video on Tikal (or Chaos for that matter). The video I made on Tikal is almost a year old. You can watch it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6iuaJ6Op9xpedk I hate to be THAT guy but I must point out that you mispronounced Pachacamac’s name. Or at least I’m pretty certain I know how to pronounce it but I guess we’ll never know since no character in the games has ever spoken his name. I pronounce the ‘a’s in the second half of his name with an “ah” sound. It’s hard to explain the inflection but I mention his name several times in the video linked above. Or sometimes I nickname him Ol’ Pach. I’m surprised you didn’t mention the Tikhaos storyline from the ‘Sonic Universe’ Archie comics. I haven’t read much of Archie myself, especially the older issues, but I thought that particular story was good. Tikal also may have been inspired by a character named Princess Alucion from a one-issue french comic called ‘Sonic Adventures’, which was released 4 years before SA1 and also features a tribe of echidnas. Again, more detail in my video. Tikal is personally my favorite female Sonic character and I would love to see her return in some story-related capacity in a future game or other media. It’s a shame she wasn’t in the second movie even though Pachacamac was in the first one. She could have fit in nicely as a cameo in Knuckles’ flashback to the day he lost his father, but unfortunately she might be dead since the movie says Knuckles is the last echidna. As for Chaos, I think of him like Godzilla. He’ll do what he can to keep the peace, but when someone harms his Chao brethren or wants to abuse the power of the emeralds, he’ll level a city. It’s ironic that Chaos was chosen to be one of Infinite’s illusions, and yet Chaos is a much more complex and interesting villain without even saying a word. Great job as always with this video. I’m interested to check out what you plan on doing with the Donkey Kong and Zelda Origin Oracles.

[@TheMentok]

Great video dude! I watched the whole thing and it’s cool to see some of the details I missed. I had to cover Tikal because I played Sonic Adventure way too many times to count when it first came out and every time I was more and more fascinated with her flashbacks. Happy to see other fans of her out there!

[@volvagianintendo6465]

Actually, Pachacamac is a Castillishened shape of Pachakámaq. Precise phonetic transcription with syllabic downbreaking: [ˌpä.ʧä.ˈkä.mäqʼ] and without syllabic downbreaking: [ˌpäʧäˈkämäqʼ] And, by the way, I am making a language for the Knuckles Folk. Pachakámaq is a compound of two Kechua nouns: pacha + kámaq. They respectively mean “earth/ground/land/soil” and “maker/creator”. So, literally, “Earthmaker”.

[@nazishhussain2712]

I didn’t know mario met inspector gadget

[@dicaru0078]

So there relationship basically is the Koco and echidna getting along?

[@SmokeTheHorsehog]

I've been wondering what has been keeping you from finishing Mario's Origin Oracle Pt. 2.

[@TheMentok]

I went back to Sonic for April Fools and did the Big video and just kinda put Mario on pause after that lol. Part 2 is definitely coming soon

[@VictorHernandez-nj2lo]

Though not cannon, their also selectable characters in Sonic Adventure Two's multiplayer mode

[@justisdraws2412]

9:29 Holy fucking shit! That was badass!! 🤩🤩🤩

[@Dan_K_Meme]

when’s the next timeline video I gotta know the confusion with Mania and Forces 😭

[@TheMentok]

Haven’t forgotten the timeline videos. Still planning those out so when they do come back I can release them in a timelier fashion

[@Hynotama]

Those Station Square streets were filled with civilians, mere seconds before the flood hit the city. But when the water rushes in, those same streets are empty. The people of Station Square are canonicaly faster than Sonic. Have fun trying to un-see that.

[@ADragonNerd]

With how Forces just made Chaos seem pathetic, I don't wanna see Chaos come back other than non-canon multiplayer options

[@VictorHernandez-nj2lo]

What is the animation at 5:15 & 7:48? 🤔

[@SSK1k]

Crazy because you were basically right about the chao backstory

[@GeaForce]

Kind of scary how acurate you were with your Chao theory in Frontiers

[@VictorHernandez-nj2lo]

Speaking of the "super emeralds", please do a video on hyper sonic

[@SmashProX]

Well this needs to be updated now.

[@Evangelionism]

S1 needs to make a cartoon skit featuring Trump as Eggman

[@treysavage4570]

Now I wonder if Knuckles name was always Knuckles or did he take that name after his clan died. I would say he was named after his clan but if they was wiped out over 3,000 years ago how the hell was he even born unless he was alive back then and they race are basically immortal unless they are killed in battle or they age very very slowly

[@lookatdemijipers]

he had to have parents dude lol Knuckles is around 18-19 iirc, his parents were probably the last Echidnas and they died when he was young leaving him the only one

[@nazishhussain2712]

Chao remind me of Kim read from arthur

[@nazishhussain2712]

That clip eggman is giving me famliy guy and south park

[@charlieloffler4713]

What is the thumbnail artwork from?

[@TheMentok]

This was an official piece that Sega posted on the Japanese Sonic Channel. Though it was a little while back, not sure if it’s still up on their site

[@theworthams6279]

He's a fighting robot megaman

[@DanielRamirez-cj5yg]

This whole time i thought chaos was a chao corrupted by the emeralds power. Now i see it was nearly the opposite. He was a chao sworn to protect the master emerald and in seeing his entire family destroyed, he became a rogue

[@jadenthemasteratkins1853]

Man I feel real bad for chaos and tikal and man chaos is probably one of the most tragic villains ever

[@Chaos-0-b3h]

…

[@jadenthemasteratkins1853]

@@Chaos-0-b3h you’ll be ok you’ll recover *hugs*

[@gracekim1998]

Awesome 😊 do you think these two will ever return in a future game?

[@LittleGuy1i]

Then how old is knuckles!?

[@nazishhussain2712]

The dark on remind me of ultralinks from max steel

[@nazishhussain2712]

Pacachamac remind me of miles dread

[@Nite-Rise]

Story gets crazier after Frontiers

[@BasementDweller_]

Groovy video.

[@orcwarchiefreviews]

I'm interested to see you do the Zelda games they're pretty fun see if you touch off on the BS Zelda games and the absolute fun that is all the different versions of Zelda I mean you got one version that works by shouting into a controller to kill Poe's voice links adventure and how they change the game for the US market I hope you enjoy the rabbit hole

[@TheMentok]

So many different Links and Zelda’s. By the time I get to them these videos might be long form content 😂

[@HorrorBiscuit13]

How many people died during perfect chaos’s flooding of the city 😟

[@hs1798]

Isn’t it the “echidna tribe”?

[@kazzajaxon7566]

No, because they're AN echidna tribe not THE echidna tribe. Think about real life tribes, they have names and they're not just called "the human tribe"

[@nasceredickinson2319]

It's not the "Echidna Tribe" the "Knuckles Tribe" or "Knuckles Warrior Clan" Knuckles is name after his clan you can call it tribe or clan.

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

​@@kazzajaxon7566 ...nnnnooo, usually tribes ARE called some variation of "us" or "you know, normal people" in their original language, or at least something like "our valley's inhabitants". AMERICANS of USA even call other people from AMERICAS "non-americans", or "Latin Americans". Like THEY are the people who have all the magna cum laudes in law and medicine, while English is only good for farming potatoes. Point is, in reality it's the opposite, even "American" just means "a human from America" and that's NOT ENOUGH to distinquish a person who deserves to be called a REAL American. It's like calling brazilians, argentinians and peruvians Latin Echidna Tribe, and calling YOURSELF the REAL Echidna Tribe for being born in USA. We didn't even give an ENGLISH name to THIS tribe, just kinda reduced anyone OUTSIDE that tribalism into some kind of less-than-human status. For not having a vote in the democracy that gives "americans" a BETTER status. All the BORDER really does is put men at guard telling people they can't trade and create commerce across the border, but between two states it is allowed.

[@TheethPelican]

Chaos is confirmed to be a Heavy mutated chao

[@kaihedgie1747]

And onw he's confirmed to be a descendant of an alien race. He may never have even been a mutated Chao but instead the last vestige of their original genetic code

[@silver360im]

​@@kaihedgie1747 so instead it were the chao that are the mutation and chaos is just a de-evolution to its origin state

[@kaihedgie1747]

@@silver360im The Chao are the devolution, not Chaos. Eggman even points this out in one of his memos

[@HorrorBiscuit13]

Chaos is a water being Kaos is a portal master that has water minions Their names sound the same They are both villains Skylanders X sonic collab could happen if a new skylanders game ever happens

[@YPhilou]

Dark gaia solos Perfect Chaos

[@zebjensen4251]

You think chaos and takal will appear in a somic movie? Same story more or less just on movie form

[@Mecha_Madness]

What if you did an update on this for the Ancients

[@12SlimJims]

It's all Ken Panders fault

[@Sky2theRim]

Sa1 may be my favorite game, that or ocarina of time

[@tonycorona8501]

Were you given the gift of Apollo?

[@gammaguyyt]

Okay, so where’s my episode? I share a name.

[@AryaAzad-i8p]

Childhood