THE TRAITOR WAR BEGINS! BLACK LEGION VS NIGHT LORDS!

[@Matihood1]

Darn, reading the title, I thought we were going to discuss a piece of lore where Black Legion went against the Night Lords.

[@dukeofawesome3718]

Same

[@blingsing5383]

Hoodwinked Still it was a good video

[@ShaunfromSandB]

The book Soul Hunter has some bits of BL vs NLs if you were interested in some independent reading

[@NemFX]

"You guys suck!" "No you suck, how are lightning bolts supposed to be scary?" "At least our primary isn't copying Leman Russ by covering himself in wolf pelts, trying to copy the guy who did it first!" "Horus came first!" "Yeah, that's what she said!" .. Night Lords win.

[@pipes9878]

@@NemFX Lorgar nods in agreement “As it is written” 🤣 🤣

[@lepszykomentator]

AVE DOMINUS NOX!

[@jackb1272]

OMG SUCH A HUGE FAN! Please don’t turn use my flesh for origami...

[@ClovenOnes]

Konrad what name is that

[@planetoftheweek]

Ave Imperator . . . heretic

[@soundwave1021]

We have come for you ☺️

[@DoomStarRequiem]

In midnight clad. Hunt well brother.

[@PumpkinHoard]

Black Legion will wreck them head to head, but the Night Lords will probably pull some cloak and dagger fuckery to get one over on them.

[@lordpfeiffer8490]

black legion would destory them the alpha legion way

[@dr-bunko6646]

@@lordpfeiffer8490 hell im sure some alpha legion cells would be happy to help the night lords.

[@M_R_243]

I agree. Just like the Dark Angels vs Night Lords back during the HH days. Night Lords will lose straight up fights, but they know that and won’t fight like that.

[@m.k.2455]

I think it depends, if Abbadon is leading the Black Legion, he'll need roughly 13 attempts to be successful, but then at least he'll beat them for sure

[@CyrodiilCome]

Talos was pretty good at fucking up the Black Legion

[@FoundingChambers]

When chaos goes against chaos its freaking nutterbutters man

[@johntakamashi6684]

The entire iron warriors legion at the face off be like I AM ALPHARIUS

[@sonofsanguinius176]

Is it just me or is it wayy more interesting when Chaos fights each other rather than the Imperium time again and again

[@ClovenOnes]

I mean the imperium is at the forefront of everything so when we get something that isn't about the imperium it's way more interesting

[@beefbigshot8789]

@The Exemplary Englishman it doesn't matter if there is a xenophobic imperium or not. All of the chaos legions hate xenos just as much if not more than the imperium especially since some of them are veterans from the great crusade where their xenophobia saw humanity almost wipe out all xenos in the galaxy(and they effectively did for several thousand years beyond a couple semi-major players)

[@beefbigshot8789]

@The Exemplary Englishman maybe but more likely than not any remaining xenos after Horus wins would be used as fodder for chaotic rituals. Perhaps the Eldar could have unified to make a decent enough resistance but it doesn't change that slaaneshi warbands would view any xenos as good onaholes to sacrifice to Slaanesh or Khorbaye warbands may view random xenos as good ways to kill time. There are plenty of chaos warbands in the real timeline fighting with each other who have the time to pillage random xenos, just look at what the death guard did to the Tau for example

[@chakatBombshell]

@@beefbigshot8789 Well for certain the dark eldar would be destroyed by slanneshi worshippers.

[@chakatBombshell]

Yeah, it actually makes sense they would be in constant civil war with each other serving other gods and genuinly hating and blaming each other (rightfully) for dragging each other into there current hell. Not to mention those who serve slanessh and khorn are basically driven to conflict and the only ones they useally have to fight in the eye of terror are other traitors. The worst thing for the health of a chaos space marine is a different color painted chaos space marine.

[@nickjanz7595]

World Eaters have to sit out a round? I'm sure that won't upset them at all

[@rickconnolly5006]

Guaranteed win when they're up next... "we have waited too long! REEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!"

[@cousinzeke4888]

@@rickconnolly5006 How many got teamkilled while they were waiting though?

[@Zoocsgo]

Black Legion send the might of their entire army to attack the Nightlords. Nightlords sent a small force to fight and then flee. Abbadon assumes victory and proceeds to attack World Eaters. In dying embers of the battle Nightlords reappear and butcher the remaining forces of both Legions.

[@ClovenOnes]

You underestimate the numbers of the Black Legion

[@savagepatty]

You under estimate the nightlords I think Lorgar

[@auugh43546]

You under estimate the Lorgar i think nightlords

[@richardvaldes3959]

Decimus is the future of the Nightlords

[@colthedrummer]

I don't think most people commenting on here managed to get to the end of that series 😂 Ave Dominus Nox

[@CDLMcLellan]

I hope they actually develop his story further!

[@colthedrummer]

@@CDLMcLellan, me too! Was really pointing towards something amazing and terrifying. Hopefully it's not a case of 'who shouts loudest wins'. Lore about the less written about legions is so necessary for a well rounded story where everyone has their favourite personalities reflected.

[@rewtheday8088]

I still wish it was Talos. He was supposed to be the hero.

[@MrHellsHarlequin]

@@rewtheday8088 and look how that turned out

[@meiklefourie8831]

Black Legion will probably win, but at a heavy cost. The Night Lords will pretty much guarantee that their opponent won't win the war.

[@macromicro1715]

Maybe the Nightlords of old, but the current ones are a far cry from their legions... “glory”. Far reduced in numbers, and facing an enemy so steeped in chaos they will never turn at the sight of horror, no matter how gruesome. The night lords need to keep a running battle, because the second they slow down the Black Legions will overwhelm them. Certainly it’s a conflict that doesn’t favor their odds.

[@Aaron-is8yt]

@@macromicro1715 agreed

[@meiklefourie8831]

@@macromicro1715 The Night Lords have 3 things going for them which is why I believe that they'll cripple the Black Legion, but still lose. Their lack of centralized leadership, while causing division also prevents them from receiving one crippling blow from the Black Legion. The Black Legion, when facing an enemy that still kills them after being "defeated" (most likely just a few warbands dead with more still hiding) will make the less loyal Black Legion forces abandon Abbadon. Finally there's Abbadon himself. This is his worst match-up, as they will grind him down and, to make matters worse, World Eaters are next. Abbadon will attack them directly, the Night Lords will retreat. Abbadon claims victory, the Night Lords stab his back. Eventually Abbadon will win through numbers, but it's like American and German tanks. The Night Lords will kill 5 Black Legion for every Night Lord, then die to the 6th.

[@mzurran1003]

I think it will pan out like Vietnam or The War on Terror. the black legion will not fall totally, but they will not ever win either.

[@alphariusomegon4432]

Not talking HH armies Alpha Legion: "There's a difference?"

[@jakub_paints6775]

Exactly

[@Falkaster]

is that you Omegon?

[@texasallstar6969]

lol the alpha legion are completely different since the heresy. read the recent novels lol

[@alphariusomegon4432]

@@texasallstar6969 Do you mean the book that follows Alpha Legion marines recruited from other chapters and legions or the book that follows marines from the HH that got time warped into modern 40k?

[@ethrsag735]

Hydra Dominatus brother

[@ShaunfromSandB]

There's some precedent for this in the first ABD night lords book.

[@calummacdonald1081]

Aaron Bembski-Dowden 😅

[@ShaunfromSandB]

@@calummacdonald1081 lol

[@darylkowalchuk8373]

Night lords won 😁

[@savagepatty]

I disliked the exalted until I saw him in void combat and gods dam do I have respect for that beast now.

[@jagosevatarion4528]

Night Lords wouldn't even consider doing this fight. They just leave and watch everyone else do the battles and scavenge from the aftermath. Black Legion moves on with having to do any combat.

[@crackedhammer4612]

If the Night Lords were at legion strength then the black legion would be destroyed

[@Chaotic_Jackal]

@@crackedhammer4612 Hardly, the Night Lords have never been a martial legion even during the height of their power during the Great Crusade and have always relied on literal terror tactics to frighten their enemies into submission. Take away the ability to make their enemies afraid and the Night Lords become near totally useless when compared to any other Astartes.

[@crackedhammer4612]

@@Chaotic_Jackal not really. They were a formidable force. Even during the Thramas Crusade the NL gave the DA massive casualties. When it comes to mortals of course they use fear tactics it’s their specialty but they’re astartes they know most tactics. Think of the White Scars their specialty is hit and run attack bikes but they still know and are effective with other tactics. So you’re just wrong.

[@rycolligan]

I don't think the Night Lords win, but I think they wound the Black Legion badly enough that the Black legion can't steamroll the remaining fights. Imagine going up against the World Eaters with a limp and a blind eye...

[@vontheunknown7982]

The night lord don't mess around even if they don't attack weak enemies

[@matthew92604]

It really depends on which Night Lord author you like lol. The legion ranges from mustache twirling villains to spec op operators haha.

[@Yabuheru]

Iron within iron without

[@savagepatty]

All will fall to grandfather nurgle sooner or later. But in the end.. they will fall

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

The Night Lords’ terror tactics won’t be nearly as effective against the Black Legion as they would against non-Astartes. They’ll inflict some serious casualties, but they won’t win the day. I’m pretty sure the Alpha Legion setup this bracket.

[@savagepatty]

Terror tactics are irrelevant, the nightlords strike from the shadows and only from a position of advantage. The black legion may not be terrified but the nightlords will still sow confusion and turmoil in the black legion engagements or lure them into traps where the work is done for them. My money is on the midnight clad.

[@absolute-focus]

@@savagepatty the Black Legion know the Night Lords tactics with them having former Night Lords in there ranks. Not only do the Black Legion have the numbers but also the wider range of tactics. Black Legion have this one easily.

[@AlphaCocoAudio]

Ah yes we remember the taste of the legendary salt the wolf lord spilled when father Vulkan hugged lord Russ to victory. It was glorious!

[@Wolfbane192]

Seriously, that was hilarious. The fact that he thought it all was about Vulkan’s perpetuality, forgetting that Vulkan was still the physically strongest Primarch and has master-crafted wargear beyond pretty much all his brothers (except maybe Lion’El).

[@jarreldoomis3502]

Ah yes, I can still remember the taste of that salt.

[@barlotardy]

Considering the Black Legion's massive number advantage, and the fact that they're made up of members of most of the other legions, I don't really see how they can lose in any round.

[@mensrea1974]

Pretty sure that's what they said 13 times before :P

[@beefbigshot8789]

Idk, the black legion in many ways is worse than any other legion beyond a black crusade. If they aren't in a black crusade all being promised the spoils of the endeavor, they have terrible cohesion. To the point it's not strange at all to see black legion elements violently beating each other when not in a unified crusade together since they come from different blood

[@matthew92604]

@@beefbigshot8789 That is every traitor legion though, minus (debatable with the Mortarian and Typhus rift) the Death Guard. Traitor Legion cohesion was failing during the Heresy and died a horrible death in the Eye of Terror with the ensuing Legion Wars.

[@wrestlingguy8722]

Same.

[@Джудо]

@@beefbigshot8789 what are you talking about, black legion is the most disciplined traitors legion

[@akiramasashi9317]

The problem with the Night Lords is that their tactics and strategies don't really work against a Chaos faction. Black Legion doesn't scare and doesn't get demoralized, so terror strikes are out. Which is really the big Night Lords advantage.

[@xXMirrorKnightXx]

You could consider switching the Alpha Legion and World Eaters places in the Match-Ups. World Eaters wouldn't hold back and wait, but Alpha Legion? Oh yes

[@cheeseburger12]

I was also thinking that if the Alpha Legion was waiting back and they ended up facing the Black Legion first (I expect them to take the Night Lords) They might spend that time infiltrating the Black Legion for maximum effect.

[@ashclaw2306]

The Night Lords will bleed out the Black Legion until they break into smaller allegiances and hunt them as they excel at.

[@savagepatty]

100% agree. They don’t stand in midnight clad to fight in the light.

[@fredwhittle6808]

Another great video mate, thoroughly enjoyed! A video idea I had was a series about which primarchs got along and which ones didn’t, and who were close and not

[@Duppyman695]

Black Legion must out number The Night Lords 10-1, having said that Night Lords aren't going to fight fair and in a cold war numbers will count for nothing!

[@fulalbatross]

True. Then again, The Black Legion isn't exactly following some samurai honor code either.

[@Duppyman695]

True but when it comes to Stealth warfare Night Lords are professionals.

[@fulalbatross]

No argument there. But at some point one have to engage if you are to win, Abaddon won't give up out of fear as many Imperial opponents do to the Night Lords. Night Lords would survive forever if that was the one goal, but then so would Black Legion in that case. For Night Lords to win they'd have to engage as well. Personally I think the sheer amount of resources Abaddon controls is too much, at least as an opening match-up with both at full strength.

[@Duppyman695]

Your right there, Terror tactics wouldn't work with The WarMaster, and in a war of attrition The Black Legion with rank after rank of horrors and Daemon engines there could only be one outcome!

[@ClovenOnes]

Well the black legion outnumbers the word bearers about 10-1 and the word bearers have some of the higher numbers when compared to most of the other traitor legions

[@darrenrenna]

Great concept--will enjoy seeing how this plays out!

[@Shabbyorange101]

The first 3mins 50 seconds is so well done, really made that entertaining Rho, great stuff.

[@dukeofawesome3718]

The fighting will originally be in favor of the Nightlords, using their tactics and foresight. But, eventually Abbadon and the Black Legion would turn it into a war of attrition and use their superior number to their advantage and win.

[@PB-re1mm]

Keep in mind ppl that Alpha Legion has had the primarch project since the heresy

[@davidk6269]

This tournament will likely come down to The Black Legion vs. The Death Guard in the finals.

[@savagepatty]

Everything falls to grandfather in the end.

[@johnnyscifi]

Black legion are at this point, in force diversity, the chaotic version of the deathwatch

[@AlJohnstone88]

I mean it has to go to the BL quite easily. As noted the NLs gave the DA a hard time for years with Kurze at its head but they were ultimately caught and slaughtered. Without Kurze the various warbands would be run to ground by the better organised and more numerous BL.

[@shadowthewarlord705]

Something to keep in mind, whilst they are splintered and have a disjointed leadership, this could actually be an advantage. Because each band is used to operating independently as long as the heads of each band communicate they could effectively have competent leadership and forces who are used to working together attacking from multiple directions with each commander reacting to take full advantage of any opportunities opened up by another bands forces.

[@thewizardtim8153]

I'm so hyped for this face off

[@ramsuryaprasath1381]

Indeed brother

[@ClovenOnes]

I just hope some of these don't devolve into popularity contests like the primarch one

[@Nyctophora]

With the Night Lords it could be a literal face off.

[@CynicalPete]

This will be a tough one for the Black Legion, but they’ll pull it off. It will be difficult for them at first, but the Night Lord’s lack of cohesion will ultimately work against them

[@ClovenOnes]

You never know man decimus could pop up and just surprise everyone

[@XHobbiesPrime]

I think it's only because of numbers that the Black Legion pulls it off. If it was even numbers the Night Lords would just kill from the shadows until the advantage was there. And the Night Lords are FEARSOME fighters in close combat. Utterly brutal.

[@captainflapjax7240]

Also for the rest of the matches: Emperor's Children beat Thousand Sons (I'll explain when that video drops, I know it's a tough match), Iron Warriors beat Alpha Legion, and Death Guard beat Word Bearers

[@ClovenOnes]

Word Bearers beat death guard

[@captainflapjax7240]

@@ClovenOnes go back to choir Lorgar, Mortarian's gonna slap your biased ass around like an old preacher and an altar boy and you know it and like it.

[@ClovenOnes]

@@captainflapjax7240 I'm not biased, mortarion and the death guard are tied for me when it comes to my favorite legions which are word bearers and death guard, My favorite primarchs are lorgar, angron, and mortarion, but lore wise the death guard lose to the word bearers since the word bearers have daemonkin, daemon summoning, and the favor from all 4 gods, nurgle loves the word bearers almost as much as the death guard and that says something, with the daemon summoning the word bearers can play the attritional game and can outlast the death guard, the daemonkin are superior to any regular plague marine the death guard have, and the word bearers have the favor of the 3 other gods, plus lorgar is most likely more powerful than current mortarion

[@CyberSlayer128]

Wait, so you're saying that opening the gates to hell which would allow Heretic Astartes to roam the galaxy freely could lead to infighting? I am so surprised, as surprised as when I learned Erebus was not a nice person.

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

Pretty sure their "war" would just go like this: "I killed some of your dudes!" "Oh no! Anyway...I killed some of your dudes." "Oh no! Anyway...I killed some of your dudes..." "Oh no! Anyway...I killed some of your dudes." It's a big part of war Chaos is so boring: they have nothing to lose, so it doesn't matter when they do.

[@ClovenOnes]

And that's where you're wrong chaos has a lot to lose, chaos space marines don't just come back unless their main characters and even still half the time they don't, plus the reason space marines turn to chaos is because they have dreams and want something more out of their life than just to die for the emperor, Chaos marines have ambition and when they die they lose their dreams, compare that to loyalists who lose nothing when they die and a lot of them want to die chaos marines don't because the consequences for their deaths are a lot worse and they lose much more than loyalists some xenos, and even some regular humans

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

@@ClovenOnes "I want to kill/torture as many people as possible" is about as far as everyone who isn't part of the Thousand Sons gets. And what happens when they die? Nothing. They have no worlds to lose, few (if any,) people they care about, they worship gods that guarantee they will fail in the long term, and most of them don't want much more than immortality anyway.

[@ClovenOnes]

@@bubbasbigblast8563 In the perspective of an astartes that's alot, astartes are indoctrinated to not have dreams or much ambition so to the perspective of an astartes that is a lot to lose

[@Dontreallycare5]

I think one of the bigger reasons there is no real contest between the Black Legion and the Night Lords is the simple fact that the Black Legion has far more available daemonic assets. Sure, the Night Lords can do their sneaky terror assault tactics and harass their smaller elements effectively . . . . but I don't see how that would really mean much when the Black Legion could make contracts with daemons capable of tracking them down more successfully than just a normal commander. Abaddon doesn't really need to put together an excellent battle plan, he just needs to be smart enough to cut the right deal for the right price with a handful of greater daemons - which is like a normal Tuesday for him. Even more importantly, I think the win conditions are vastly different for the two organizations. The Black Legion only has to corner and wound the Night Lords enough to cow them into fealty. The Night Lords on the other hand would have to undermine and tear apart an organization that has survived for thousands of years, during which it has spent a lot of its time specifically warring with and subjugating other warbands. Even if the conditions for the Night Lords were somehow perfect, they would still ultimately be playing at a game their opponent is far more experienced with.

[@robertmorse2510]

I think the Night Lord's would be able to exploit Abbadons personality weaknesses and then ambush him. Once they kill Abbadon the black legion will crumble

[@CousinJesse1]

The Death Guard might be the only thing more horrifying than the Night Lords.

[@savagepatty]

Agreed

[@bosukkim8523]

At least they have the courtesy of actually killing you. Emperor's Children are more terrifying imo. Sex-crazed drugged up super human daemon hybrid monsters that care nothing more than to be disturbing sweat goblins is more terrifying. These guys will actually prolong your death just because it tingles their senses. Night Lords will do the same, but without the pleasure thing. They will do it to set example. These guys are terrifying among terrifying in Chaos faction. And also, Night Lords just gets shit done.

[@beefbigshot8789]

This is a hard fight that I say really has to come down to the scenario they find themselves in. If it's an unavoidable head to head fight, NLs loose no question, but a campaign spanning over several systems, and I think the NLs may actually have it. The reason being that they excel at what the BL is bad at, meaning that they can exploit the lack of loyalties in the BL. The ties that hold the NLs together are way stronger, BUT all of this depends on if the NLs could run a campaign that was spread out in order to weaken the BL AND if the NLs can stay cohesive enough to fight together in a smart way. I give them a slim victory because I'm being very generous here

[@bobmckelvey7905]

You got the point exactly The Night Lords are the Traitor version of the Raven Guard even Corax was shook about the similarities between the Primarchs and the legion your also right about the Nightlords not taking on the Black Legion H2H they would for sure Ally then betray the Black Legion most likely with the same result that the Word Bearers got when they Pearl Harbored the Ultramarines ultra devastation but ultimately loosing in a protected war . But it should be said they are certainly not afraid to tell Abaddon to stuff it witness Talos telling him straight up that the Black Legion disgusted him. ADB seemed to stress again and again that the Night Lords aren't Chaos Marines like the Black Legion they are traitor Marines who might put with tainted night lords but just because they are night lords. Only the Astral Claw Apocathary was admitted in all the night lord related fiction I've read .

[@cuddlestheadorable1153]

there is like 10 nightlords left. they don't even have a way to re-arm weapons , and battle-plate. i think the only smaller chaos legion might be angron's world eaters

[@CDLMcLellan]

Krieg Acerbus is leading a massive NL force and Decimus is uniting others, loads more than 10!

[@cuddlestheadorable1153]

@@CDLMcLellan 12! A massive force on Night lords🤣

[@ClovenOnes]

@@cuddlestheadorable1153 Your ignorance will be your undoing

[@CDLMcLellan]

@@cuddlestheadorable1153 yep, Krieg Acerbus leads a pretty massive force, not in comparison to Black Legion ofc. But yeah there is more than 10 nightlords left 😂 unless that was meant to be sarcasm?!

[@cuddlestheadorable1153]

@@CDLMcLellan what gene seed they using? what world do they recruit from? who supplies them? Night lords=broke emo kids

[@PineActual]

The night lords biggest advantage is that they are underestimated

[@ClovenOnes]

No that's perty, and abaddon to some extent

[@jimminey-fooking-cricket4903]

The drift between Primarch and son's in the eight was a problem near the end Kurze hated his son's almost as much as they hated him so having a living Primarch may not be that big a deal. The Black Legion well lose some champions maybe some ships put the eight well ghost away defeated but whole.

[@tomryan22091990]

I Think you have to look at the tactical disposition of both forces here... The Black Legion have numbers that rival Space Marine Legions of old, We can account that to being around 100k Chaos Marines. This will comprise Astartes' and materials from a hundred different sources, This makes cohesion a massive problem in the Black Legion, Whilst they claim loyalty to Abaddon I'm sure there are grudges throughout the BL structures, Again this makes cohesion a massive problem, Also wielding that many Astartes' at Once is also problematic, Breakdowns in communication would be rife when trying to move the BL in one go. Now think of their opponents, Tactical Specialists that are extremely skilled at sowing Terror amongst populations and destroying an opponents ability to Strike back and wage a war, this i believe is where the Night Lords would prevail over the Black Legion, they would target their supply lines planet side and then find that they are beset by accident after accident, Munitions depots destroyed, Human crew serfs gutted by the thousands and the list goes on, We've seen time and time again that Small tactical units can do more damage sometimes that entire armies. My Vote here is for the Night Lords, and they would win it by a Country Mile.

[@TechnoCheezit]

I've seen they actually have around 250k to 300k astartes in their legion, which is bigger. I may be wrong, but I remember reading it somewhere.

[@mzurran1003]

Sounds like Black Legion is in for a Vietnam facing off against the Night Lords.

[@Chaotic_Jackal]

That’s actually a rather terrible comparison because from a straight military prospective the NVA and Vietcong where repeatedly decimated throughout the war with only the lose of public support back home in the US salvaging the war for them.

[@bobbygonzalez2056]

What if all the primaris grey shields are of the alpha legion gene seed and part of crossing the Rubicon involves replacing the gene seed with that of Alpharius. Cawl is Alpharius. Change my mind.

[@gangrail]

Working on a loyalist night lords faction of primaris was wondering if ravengaurd codex would be the equivalent of the nightlords

[@benjamindunn1942]

They would be the closest match to how a loyalist Night Lord force would be. and as much as they don't quite stack up as models, If being fluff-accurate, you would definitely need to have large numbers of reivers. I want to like those units so much as they are basically all night lords, but GW just makes them so underwhelming...

[@gangrail]

@@benjamindunn1942 its why I dont use them in my imperial fists I just use big dakka

[@ClovenOnes]

Loyalists, well that sucks

[@gangrail]

@@ClovenOnes well its better then spreading a false religion.... also how does it feel knowing a loyalist word bearer exists in the imperium still serving the emperor?

[@ClovenOnes]

@@gangrail I don't really care

[@Sophie-h5b]

Night Lords all the way! I think the Night Lords will be severely underestimated by the black legion which would ultimately lead to their defeat.

[@warmech95]

another great series in the offing! just a note to be careful about the future titles and thumb nails of the episodes this week. i say this because during the primarch tournament it was easy to see who won which battle without even having to watch the video and i didnt really like being spoiled. i love it being a surprise and especially to hear you narrate it.

[@somebody7431]

"Comes the arms as well" You mean to tell us Failbaddon here got his arms back from these numbers?

[@MrMrrome]

Gonna go ahead and predict a overall victory for the emper... I mean Alpha legion

[@savagepatty]

Everything falls to the grandfather in the end. My money is on Typhus and the death guard.

[@olihoisl7546]

Aren't the Night Lords not truly engaged with chaos? If o remember that bit correctly then I think even with hit and run tactics or spreading fear, they would stand no chance against demons that can pretty much be summoned to aid even the little black legion forces

[@taxllax2104]

Another thing to mention is that Night Lords could wery well suffer from the inner conflict of different warbands working together. Even more so than the patchwork nature of the Black Legion

[@donperez8774]

Winner: via rulebook, Black Legion, as Night Lords do a robbery, not a battle, then retreat from tournament. Abbadon's forces lose years of supplies, servants and several ships to piracy tactics in exchange of one aging capital vessel used as bait and some expendable Khorne fanatics and mutants. Casualties: Unexpectedly low for a Chaos Space Marine encounter; more blood spilled in intra-fighting. Black Legion punish their own for security lapses while Night Lords kill each other over plunder shares, as well as argue the heist went so easy, maybe they should have pressed their luck.

[@Overonator]

How do we vote?

[@collecter343]

Link in description

[@Overonator]

@@collecter343 Thanks.

[@ianphillips9105]

I have to go with the 8th, given how their more stealthy style of fighting and utter mastery of terror tactics. Plus Abbadon's record of failures in leadership doesn't bode well for the Black Legion and keeping all the mishmash of Legions in the Black holding together.

[@ffejpsycho]

Just my two cents, but I think that instead of the world eaters getting a bye the. face-off' should have been "evened" up by adding a perhaps equally maniacal traitorous warforce to face the whirling dervish of Demon Primarch Angron disregarded heirs to the nails! Namely, with it being the combined warbands of "The Crimson Slaughter" & "The Red Corsairs" (nice blood red colour theme they have to match the world eaters). I would think 2 chapter/warbands is a fair go against a 40k era traitor legion....? Better than a bye, that's for sure! 💪🤤👍

[@A1509MDIX]

The Red Corsairs just sitting off on the side watching all this

[@dax7574]

UUUUuuuuu juicy! Neat idea mate. This is going to be dificult to asses though, the scales aren't so clear as with the primarchs. Thanks for your content man! I'ma surelly enjoy this series. Even though I don't like it, I'm going to vote the black legion for total winer though. They have the largest armies, the most variation and adaptavility, and a strong lead(albeit realistically he is an absolute goddam looser). Seccond would provably be either the Iron warriors for their tactical skill and endurance, or the alpha because of how much out of the box they function.

[@cronoros]

The Alpha Legion have it won already, most of the other traitors are secret alpha legion. Alpharius is basically Danny Ocean in power armour

[@ClovenOnes]

I mean the alpha legions comabt specialty kind of counters all the other traitor legions except for maybe the death guard, but the death guard can't really win against the word bearers since the word bearers combat specialty completely counters the combat specialty of the death guard

[@wowforthewin100]

You also have to think about the fragility of the black legion, is it not comprised of many warbands? The Night Haunters would use this to their advantage

[@darksider2903]

O_O I am the 1st Everyone hates abaddon, but tbh he saved imperium by slaying clone of Horus lol

[@cuddlestheadorable1153]

In the books we always are told how great a warrior Abandon is. Sigismund wrecked him though and he was a standard space marine, he has too much plot armor. GW uses the teleport too much too save him. He is just not interesting enough to be the big baddie of the galaxy.

[@darksider2903]

@@cuddlestheadorable1153 well it's best for imperium that abbadon is chaos warmaster. You wouldn't want some Warrior like sigismund's level to become warmaster of chaos lol Many good things he did, slayed clone of Horus, destroyed some black stone fortresses...etc that dude is the reason imperium and warhammer still exists lmao

[@jamesmckenna4460]

@@cuddlestheadorable1153 sigi is a black templar, comparable to a grey knight

[@cuddlestheadorable1153]

@@jamesmckenna4460 still a standard space marine.

[@ClovenOnes]

@@cuddlestheadorable1153 Sigismund wrecked fulgrim so what can you expect

[@GrimgoreIronhide]

People forget that, especially against well trained troops, guerilla fighters also take fairly regular casualties. A percentage of ambushes and raids simply fail, usually resulting in heavy casualties or a complete wipe out of the smaller force. Guerilla tactics heavily rely on there being unwary or soft targets to attack in the first place, and in a fight between Space Marines this simply isn't the case a lot of the time.

[@RyDog905]

Emperor's children vs Thousand Sons. Damn, my two favourite traitor legions going head to head

[@TheKlink]

you should do a community post poll, boost your channel.

[@kalebeckart1009]

Night lords have my vote. Also, if I could make a suggestion. World eaters vs the red corsairs? I know it's not technically a legion but it is basically a legion at this point.

[@khayon9302]

In shame and Shadow recast in black and gold reborn.

[@domc9801]

Ahhhhh yes, my morning is just full of HERESY

[@Go_B1rds]

We will bring our vacuum cleaners! The dusty boys don’t stand a chance!

[@ClovenOnes]

Holy shit you guys do carry those huh

[@DarrenHodgestrying_as_always]

So it was nice having the Iron Warriors in the mix... It's a shame they are gonna get tied up, confused and generally screwed up.

[@jasonferron1188]

Night lords, as the forces of chaos doesn't have "and I shall know, no fear". It would be a slow fight as night lords would choose thier battles, even sacrificing some for a better win condition.

[@michaelhowell2326]

Death Guard or Thousand Sons. Discussion over.

[@ClovenOnes]

Death Guard would lose to the word bearers since the word bearers have daemonkin, daemon summoning, and the favor of all the gods, nurgle loves the word bearers almost as much as he loves the death guard, and that says something, so the word bearers with their superior numbers, being able to actually outlast the death guard with their daemon summoning, if enough blood is shed it wouldn't take long for the word bearers to be summoning greater daemons out of their summoning circles, plus on top of all that the Word Bearers have the favor of the 3 other gods

[@ClovenOnes]

"We spread the Word of Lorgar"

[@thegreatboi8357]

Do night lords even have regular people in their army’s.

[@Valste19]

In a direct battle the Black Legion wins out most fights in numbers alone. Night Lords would harass them and sew discord in their ranks more than likely. Let's not forget that although the Night Lords don't have a Primarch, they have the "Prophet" Decimus who has foresight. They can literally predict the outcomes of their engagements. With that said they could probably eliminate the important leaders of Abaddons legion and break it apart without ever giving the Black Legion a chance at a decisive battle.

[@Knightlyfrog]

If Lucius gets killed by a rubric does that mean he's dead permanently

[@georgesoha4725]

Oooh, never thought of that, what about a necron too?

[@cousinzeke4888]

Lucius' resurrection thing is just a game to Slaanesh, he can be brought back no matter who kills him.

[@ClovenOnes]

@@georgesoha4725 he resurrected from a necron before

[@debrickashaw9387]

I think the Black Legion is very susceptible to Night lords warfare. As guerilla warfare has proven in our reality, they dont need a rigid command structure so them not having Kurz isn't as bad against Abaddon as i'd imagine. Abaddon would grow very frustrated with the kind of hit and run tactics that the night lords employs and i think out of all the traitor legions, the night lords have the best chance against the black legion because of this

[@ClovenOnes]

You're probably correct

[@spuddlingbob8724]

I don't see the Night Lords straight up losing, but I don't see them winning either. US forces took Afghanistan and pushed Taliban out into the fringes, but did they ever truly win against the Taliban? Can you ever truly win against a force like that with decentralised chain of command and quick, agile and lethal warbands? The Black Legion would dominate the battlespace, but not without constant harassment by the the Night Lords. Conclusion: Forever war... But with the Black Legion being the most capable of holding ground and space.

[@joe.the.sentinel]

I love the Night Lords. However in a force on force match where they can not scare their enemies, they would lose. However if it plays out where the Night Lords can kill small groups at a time, they might win.

[@Szminsky]

Aren’t the night lords few in number, especially against BL?

[@HarleyHerbert]

Another advantage the black legion has is that incorporating marines from other legions means that they have marines with the differing specialities of different legions, so they're more versatile and able to counter different threats more easily than a single legion that has just their own doctrines and fighting style

[@ClovenOnes]

Well the black legion specialize in decapitation strikes, that's their main combat specialty but you're not wrong

[@AussieGriffin]

Lawyer mode, activate! It depends... If there's a way to trick the Black Legion into going on a wild (deadly?) goose chase (like attacking the Iron Warriors or World Eaters first), OR holding Abaddon for ransom, forcing the Black Legion to fight for them, then I'd give it to the Night Lords. If they aren't that smart? The Black Legion stomp them one engagement at a time through sheer numbers. A.G.

[@exurgemars]

Same question as happened in the Horus Heresy: Does the Black Legion face the Night Lords in open battle, or is it more of a hit and run fighting retreat and ambushes? Either way, I'm sure once the Night Lords are finished with their respective isolated pockets of the Black Legion, there will not be much to call a legion, but a thousand shattered remnants routing en masse.

[@montanamartin515]

Can you even include the world eaters aren’t they just berserkers now

[@ClovenOnes]

They were berzerkers before

[@owenfarrington5679]

Maybe have the world eaters matched against the red corsairs, that would make for a good fight and even up the numbers!

[@KageRyuu6]

Failbaddon the Armless! Failed 12 times against Mortals, and only technically won the 13th time after sacrificing a priceless Black Fortress!

[@tulsibeepat3453]

That's some real fun beings that are resistant to fear and torture and fully capable of pitched battles against as proper a legion as Chaos can field that's a damn good fight🤘😍

[@christianwiese5512]

Love this channel, but today i for the first time put the videospeed to 1.25 and it's paced.. completely normal? Rho, you're living at .75 speed my dude.

[@conan2096]

ok so its basically going to come down to the iron warriors, who have loads of daemon engines and are really tanky, vs the death guard, who are the largest legion and tankiest of them all

[@AWackyDitto]

Nothing says the hydras couldn't just put a little vox communicator there in the flagship of the black legion to display the last moments of there father:3 vindication! Retribution!

[@byronwilliams8589]

What is the point of this contest???

[@joezajac2156]

You should start a series for must read 40k novels and maybe do themes?

[@Gorbz]

Black Legion. They not only have superior numbers, but numbers drawn from different warbands, chapters, and chaos god worshipers. Their pool of experience covers all times, from veterans of 30k to new traitors from 40k

[@michaellewis5200]

Although the Black Legion are a huge force under a sole leader, I do believe the separate warbands that ally with him could be a down side if the night lords are able to slowly pick them apart.

[@basos1888]

all go check baldemorts guide about the black legion,their tacticks are the most complete,all the others have a theme while abbaddon has the most tactical flexibility

[@ebbiilizard8954]

Darn, my 2 faves alpha legion and iron warriors drawn against each other.

[@fulalbatross]

Trickery reduces effectivess of a numbers advantage, but it doesn't negate it altogether. Especially when there's not even a unified command to orchestrate the trickery. And it's not like Abaddon know nothing about trickery himself just because it's not his preferred route. I'd probably vote Night Lords if Abaddon had a costly win or two already, but at full strength? No.

[@Whiskydanger]

All 8 world eaters going at a whole legion screaming....flawless victory

[@mattmonster8402]

Right how many are actually left?