The Truth About The Truth About The Truth

[@metatronyt]

For those who reached minute 29 Unfortunately a few sections from his video which had music triggered a copyright claim (NOT BY HIM he didn’t do it, the SYSTEM did) and they had to be trimmed after the video was made public, to restore the monetization. Monetization is now restored but those section are gone. Thanks for watching that far into the video. Join this channel to get access to more old school Metatron videos the algorithm wouldn't prioritize! kzbin.info/door/IjGKyrdT4Gja0VLO40RlOwjoin Also if you like what I do and wish to support my work to help me make sure that I can continue to tell it how it is please consider checking out my patreon! Unboxings are Patreon exclusives! www.patreon.com/themetatron My original video kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXbKeWaNbNSJac0 His video kzbin.info/www/bejne/e328amOvaq6oZ80 Lore recap kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHmqoXqejJh1g80

[@gilde915]

A real live discussion between you two would be very interesting

[@theMosen]

Speaking of truth @metatronyt, why did you just take down your 9 year old video "My Real Name and My Personal Facebook Page - Let's Chat ..."? Is it because in it you strongly suggested you're a professor when you're nothing of the sort?

[@Lock2002ful]

@@theMosen lol u one of those fans of that rabbid youtuber who called Metatron fake in a fit of childish rage? 😂 If I had to deal with asshats like that I’d take down my personal information as well.

[@Rws4Life]

@@theMosen Maybe it's because of weirdos trying to stalk him?

[@YesBruv105]

​@@theMosenBecause now his channel is as successful as it is, that would be a dangerous silly thing to have up on the internet.

[@Kurainuz]

As a spaniard i have to say that "moro" is used even today to refer to arab looking people (sometimes as a slur) but not to south saharian people or black people, also most of our historical books say that they were arab looking but had some black mercenaries and slaves and in historic representations and museums marocans and moors are mainly represented as arabs.

[@kogoromori30]

Afrocentrists are such losers

[@FireflowerDancer]

I agree completely. That is the description that best seems to fit the historical events of that time. On a personal note, my great-grandfather was from Greece, and my grandmother told me that she thought her brother had looked moorish. Also, we think my uncle's smile looks a bit like Eddy Murphy's.

[@samiman5606]

That's a lies in Moroccan museums allways representing Moor berber Clothing and weapons of all eras and eras until this time And I'm a Moroccan myself we don't have nothing in our museums referd to something Arab because Arab never settled in Morocco and got always defeated by the berbers rulers ( the borgwata - almoravds and almohads and marinids and Saadi) all this are indigenous berbers kingdoms without forget our first berber organised Mauritania kingdom before the history of jesus birth

[@pablogomez903]

As someone that is Galician, I should add that here in Spain we use poorly the terms moor, muslim and arab. You know why. People use them as synonims. And they aren't.I hope this makes some things more clear.

[@trattogatto]

We use the same meaning in Venice even today, we fought in past the "mori" and the infamous Barbarossa, we have a long history of trade and war, our Piazza San Marco in Venice has moorish architecture. Yes, those were the "moors" and sometimes they had even white people as soldiers, the "Giannizzeri" (janissaries) who were christians enslaved and converted to muslims.

[@ivorybow]

I have 2 degrees, one of which is in anthropology. I was in college a total of 7 years, so I do have a bit of factual knowledge. Your methods of research and then focusing on facts, even when not politically correct, are a breath of fresh and true scholarly air. Thank you Metatron for your commitment to facts, no matter the blowback.

[@metatronyt]

Thank you very much!

[@irw8367]

That’s awesome, since you have a anthropology degree is it alright if I ask some questions (not being sarcastic or anything, just genuinely curious on your take). What would you say is the phenotype of the Sphynx in Egypt is? Yes it’s head was replaced from a cat, but the adapted sphynx shows likely a female, with obvious prognathism and high cheekbones, thick lips, but unfortunately missing nose. This is quite a specific African look. I could go on about old kingdom pharaohs like Narmer (his palette to be precise), Huni, or later ones like Amenhotep III, Tiye and perhaps Rameses III DNA but that’s a lot to go through…

[@clwaid5407]

I had a student who looked a lot like me-red hair and blue eyes. She tanned, but I stayed pale. She's totally Hispanic, while I'm definitely not. The university labeled her as POC. It’s really more about culture than color. By the way, I really can’t stand Wikipedia-anyone can change things there, and it doesn’t always reflect the truth.

[@lp_kickboxing]

i suggest you watch Othello since your two degrees are not in history

[@ElderNames]

@@lp_kickboxing Othello isn't history it's art, and artistic license is taken for purposes of contrast. Shakespeare doesn't try to be historically accurate.

[@firun2635]

In German, "Mohr" was used to refer to a black person, which is an old timey, respectful way to refer to black people, and there's "Maure", which refers to the muslim people of the Maghreb and Spain. I think that English conflates both into a single word, and that may be the root of the problem of this discussion.

[@ras-negusbloomfield8145]

I agree 👍

[@stvbrsn]

Perhaps they could take a page from the Yiddish (phrase)book and call black people “schwartzer” instead of “mohr.” Less confusion that way. Lol.

[@VlxWIZzZARDxlV]

I've been watching your channel for a little bit now and I got to admit, when it comes to Roman history I think I've learned the most from you. I really appreciate you keeping Roman history alive bc it means a lot to me.

[@Vang2009]

Metatron criticizes the right: He’s a communist tankie Metatron critiques the left: He’s an ultra right Facist Funny how this is.

[@Mr.Marbles]

To a sink every drop of water is the whole sea. Idk what i just wrote but it sounds deep. Made ya think. Gotcha.

[@holdingpattern245]

That's always how it works, extremists think that anyone non-extreme is a puppet for the opposing extreme.

[@jm01157]

You forgot “right-wing grifter” lol

[@user-rl6wr2ny7f]

@@Mr.Marbles Angry fist shaking

[@scripturalcontexts]

You also forgot woke

[@metatronyt]

For those who reached minute 29 Unfortunately a few sections from his video which had music triggered a copyright claim (NOT BY HIM he didn’t do it, the SYSTEM did) and they had to be trimmed after the video was made public, to restore the monetization. Monetization is now restored but those section are gone. Thanks for watching that far into the video.

[@richardavery4692]

Badempanada made another video on you. I strongly advise you to ignore him. He's completely unhinged & known to doxx as well as make death threats. He should be ignored.

[@theMosen]

@metatronyt I posted what I believe to be an important reply in your other thread where there's an ongoing discussion about your academic credentials. But since it's the 52nd comment in that thread, I fear that you won't see it. Therefore I will repost it here: ----- First off, I want to apologize for being somewhat meanspirited and confrontational in my previous comments. I have watched your video response to that unhinged (explicit) badempanada to the point where you address your academic credentials, and I now believe that the confusion here is largely due to inaccurate translation and your unfamiliarity with English academic terms. I will take the liberty to utter a few recommendations to avoid future confusion. Please correct me if I get anything wrong. You have a degree in linguistics and history, congratulations on that. It is unclear whether it's a BA or MA or any of their equivalents, but that's fine, either is fully sufficient to claim expertise in any given field. You say in the video that you are holding your "dissertation thesis" in your hand during the graduation ceremony. You presumably mean your bachelor's or master's thesis, which is what you would be holding at your graduation. A dissertation is specifically a much more elaborate thesis that you would submit for a doctorate (PhD), generally requiring a 3-5 year process of mentorship after graduation. It appears you do not have a PhD and never wrote a dissertation. If that's the case, you should probably address this in a video, since many of your subscribers now believe that you do. You say in the video that you held a position where you were instructing teachers. You stress that you were more than a "teacher", you were employed as an "expert". "Expert" is not really an acknowledged job title, it describes what you are, not what you do. I don't really see what's wrong with "teacher" since seems to be exactly what you were doing, but I guess you don't want to be associated with snotty school kids. So maybe go with "teacher instructor" or something like that. What definitely does not work is "professor", as you claimed again in this thread. Professor is a title and tenured position granted by universities that people have worked many years for, in a lot of cases decades even. It generally requires a PhD and several if not dozens of research publications, as well as usually having strong ties to the uni in question. Also, teaching is just one of a professor's responsibilities, besides administrative duties and overseeing research projects, the latter often being the main focus of many professors. I would appreciate if you would acknowledge this post. Thank you.

[@Mduenisch]

Would it be possible to add in an edit to explain the content or to put it out in text format? Just to make sense of context, for this video and perhaps videos moving forward

[@emmanuelseka1026]

For you vandals were white as people we call white today ?

[@Zimon_Sombie]

As a half Slav and half Irish bastard, I can confirm that I'm not white... I'm drunk!

[@atticstattic]

As George Carlin said about Irish consciousness, "when they're conscious, they're great!'

[@glory4645]

That mix is crazy how you are living with yourself. 😅 Don't get me wrong I'm Slav.

[@GustavoPinho89]

Na Zdrowie

[@Zimon_Sombie]

@@glory4645 Well, I'm immune to hangovers and highly tolerant to alcohol and cigarettes, so I get invited to parties a lot. Free food is free food!

[@lonelystrategos]

The drunkest human... in the world!

[@someonesilence3731]

bad empanada made another video about you as well, within 10 hours after you uploaded your response. This guy is obessed

[@FireflowerDancer]

Wow 🍿😂

[@johncarroll772]

Badempanda is currently making another video about Metaron

[@Christopher4700]

he shouldn't have more attention unless it's him excusing his behavior. Does not deserve it

[@info0]

this guy is a certified idiot. Better ignore him. If you check his X or old Tweets he is dangerous and should be in prison (he was wishing someone death and doxxing people online :o). Btw I watched previous Metatron video on him and as Polish person, I couldn't stand his lies and defending obvious propaganda spouted by that Russian historian.

[@someonesilence3731]

@@Christopher4700 I agree

[@BoondockRoberts]

"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH ABOUT THE TRUTH ABOUT THE TRUTH!" -Jack Nicolson's son's son

[@danielmboussi4922]

Elite meme capacity man. The wit, the peotry.

[@germaniatv1870]

A Man: The truth of the matter is, the truth is the truth! Another Man: True!

[@realnova7429]

In most south european people, "moor" it's still connected to the idea of arab looking people, how in the world would that have come to today if they were black? In italian moor even means "black haired".

[@JK-xl8lj]

How words are used in modern times doesn't necessarily correlate to how they were used in the past. For example, if you look at old maps from the Ancient Greeks and Romans they used to call the peoples living along the Somali coast "Berbers". In fact one of the port cities in modern day Somalia is called Berbera for that reason. However, nobody would say modern Somalis are "Berbers" today. In the modern lexicon Berbers are people who live in North Africa with many having a phenotype that look nothing like the phenotype common in East Africa. Words can change in meaning and who they apply to over time. So the key isn't who you call "moors" today but who the people of the past called Moors at their time. And if history is any guide those might not be the same population you call Moors today.

[@wolffromrome9284]

​@@JK-xl8lj how much are you knowledge in Somalia? Don't you ever think that once the "Somalia" are islamized, there are arabs settled there? maybe the berbers of north africa went to "somalia" and do the trading of "you know" and settled there and for whatever reason left? or maybe the rich "somalis" who once accepted islam indentified themselves like the sub group of arabs who they interracted the most? Is there any painting not just from white people, but arabs themselves indentifying blacks as leaders in moors? or at least from the Turks, Iranians or Indians? there are tons of afrocentric that cuts or change a photo into black and white and telling that it was black. There are tons of that, especially in FB.

[@JK-xl8lj]

@wolffromrome9284 Somalis were called Berbers in 500 BC. Over 1,000 years before the advent of Islam which started in 610 AD. So your theory that when the Ancient Greeks called the people living along the Somali coast Berbers because some pale skin Arab looking people were there isn't supported by the facts. I would suggest you study history a bit more cause this point you made makes no sense.

[@wolffromrome9284]

@@JK-xl8lj I never heard the Nubian/Ethiopian queen who fought the Roman ever hired a Berber. Where they prominent? Maybe the Arabs who went there where like the Romans, appropriated the Greeks. Besides I was asking. Not stating a fact. Now site all your sources. Since you are the one making the facts. Like how they went to north Africa or how the Americans was talking to an arab leader in "Tunisia" when berber destroyed American ships and taking "you know" that affected Americans. Isn't that supposed to be black y That they are talking? Site books. Stories from the Arabs, whites, Ethiopians and the "berbers" of north Africa. After all, they are black right?

[@realnova7429]

@@JK-xl8lj I doubt it but even if true, do you realize somalis don't look like black people anyay, they are completly different facial structure

[@kellerblair2952]

The truth the Romans weren’t real it was just Meta and his clones larping for over a thousand years.

[@stewrmo]

I agree. I'm Scottish and I've never heard of these "Romans". They sound like they hide behind walls...😃 One love from Scotland. 💙 🦄🦁🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@frustrateduser9933]

​@@stewrmo I KNEW IT!!!

[@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878]

Wow one man and his clones did so much I wonder what endevor Raf will do next with his clonal army

[@scockery]

How does one having roamin' empire anyway? Even the Mongols had to settle down when they conquered.

[@ghostthelizard]

You sure the romans werent actually just a bunch of guys called roman who love armor

[@LuciusVulpes]

This is why I love this channel. 0% ideology. 0% agendas. 110% objective facts.

[@metatronyt]

Very much appreciated

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

​@@metatronytdefinitely... I just hope this guy can give the same respect back... I'm sorry. But I kinda think I notice a BIT of a agenda from this guy. Or, a noticable Biased. Unfortunately

[@gavingray3592]

​@@stevenwheeler5324 He is ESL so sometimes he makes mistakes🤷‍♂️

[@stevenwheeler5324]

@gavingray3592 or didn't fact check his claim just read the script from wikipedia what is very strange 🤔 why wouldn't you go to Guinness book of records and actually research what they actually said 🤔 I did took me like 2 minutes 👍 The longest earthworks in the world carried out prior to the mechanical era are the Ancient Linear Earthworks of Benin and Ishan, located in Edo State in present-day Nigeria. In 1977 it was estimated by Dr Patrick Darling that the total length of the earthworks was probably 16,000 km (10,000 miles) with the total amount of earth moved estimated at 150 million m³ (200 million yd³). Longest the Guinness book of records actually says 👍 not largest ⏲️

[@wesbaumguardner8829]

There is a fair amount of speculation due to lack of or contradicting information, so not 100% facts, but he is open about it being speculation instead of pretending he knows things he does not know, which I thoroughly appreciate.

[@amantekbali3617]

I’m North African and a shade darker than Metatron and have green eyes lol. My genetics profile is 80% Berber 13% Arab 3% Nigerian 3% Italian and 1% Russian. The majority of North Africans are within one shade (darker or lighter) of my profile. There are “black” North Africans but they are not a majority or even half of North Africans. By North African I mean the countries on the southern Mediterranean who were the “Moors”. That said Arabs/Moors often used black soldiers, so much of the Moorish army was likely darker than the Moorish population at large.

[@KevinPlump]

@amantekbali3617 that's because you're a mix breed and not indigenous to Africa

[@moderatecanuck]

Just say you are Amazigh. North African is far too broad

[@Hermentotip]

Tell them! I’m from Spain, of north african origin, and i can’t help but laugh my arse off when outsiders, specially americans, discuss this… i mean, we are here, guys 😂😂😂😂

[@Knoloaify]

I suspect that "Moor" being associated with "black" during the Middle Ages was probably because being black was such an exotic feature to the Europeans of that time that when they heard of the black soldiers the Moors had the two became tied together in their imagination.

[@DMZwerg]

@@Hermentotip well, I am an outsider from the US and my understanding was always that The Reconquest was taking Spain back from the Moors, and that the Moors were the Muslims in Spain regardless of skin tone, but after The Reconquest the term came to mean those living in parts of North Africa of mixed descent (aka, mixed Arabic and Black). If that closer to the definition you understand? Due to my profession I know words can have multiple meanings, so I am defi itely interested in your opinion, especially if I am wrong :)

[@RoverDover25]

As you have stated, his biggest mistake is thinking that the English 1800s definition of moor was the correct definition used during the Islamic Golden Age. Words change. The same mistake is used with words like “swarthy” when that usually meant tanned skin during the Middle Ages. I haven’t watched his videos but from what i have seen, I’m shocked he thinks the moors were ALL black when we have primary sources of the time depicting the majority as Berber and describing them as such.

[@CRT4Dummies]

theyre obsessed with stealing clout

[@JK-xl8lj]

The Berbers were described as mostly black in antiquity. The Arab invasion of North Africa changed things in the last 1000 years or so. But if you look to accounts from the Ancient Greeks they described North Africans as being black. In particular the Ancient Egyptians who they exclusively compared to the Nubians in terms of phenotype.

[@rzella8022]

@@CRT4Dummies Frantic. No other group is so desperate about claiming everything as their own. It's a power grab.

[@V.i.c.o.d.y.n]

My surname is Ó Duinn. You know what that means? "Descendant of Donn". Donn? "Brown", an old byname of "brown haired or dark/swarthy skinned" people. I guess that means I'm Black now. The pale skin and ginger hair just means I'm an albino, eh? Because etymology.

[@JK-xl8lj]

@@CRT4Dummies Or simply reclaiming what was originally theirs. If ancient sources didn't support their claims you would have a point. But the sources support their contention. The Ancient Greeks described the Ancient Egyptians as black. And early Europeans described the Moors as black. Be mad at whites in the past for describing them as black rather than modern black people who are simply reminding you of what your ancestors said.

[@daywither927]

Translating in a way that preserves the spirit of the original words can be very tricky. I just read through Tolkien's famous lecture on Béowulf, and translation is one of the issues he tackles: for example, the word "feond". This word later became "fiend" and means "enemy", and was used for the devil, but when it's used in Béowulf it does not necessarily mean the devil, even when it specifies "feond on helle", hellish fiend. And analyzing the proper meaning requires full context of the writing, comparison to other works, linguistic knowledge, and lots of other research. Oh, and I might add, the reason for why Tolkien talked about this was to show Grendel is not spoken of as a christian devil, that he is a nordic styled monster. Anyway, all of this is just tangentially related to the topic, but why not share it.

[@elessal]

that is why I always do some research and make sure to get the specific book editions which are said to be the most accurately translated and or possess the most footnotes. even something so resent as Pride and Prejudice is better read with extensive footnotes.

[@ruanpingshan]

Interesting. Reminds me of how in some French book I read, the Devil is referred to as "the enemy" (l'ennemi).

[@josefsterling5462]

Interpretation is also a factor, two people can read the same text but come up with wholly dofferent ideas based on their own bias and preferences etc

[@DMZwerg]

My mother's mother considered my parents to be a "mixed marriage" even though both were Catholic because while she was Anglo-Saxon (English, close to 50%) & German (50%) my father was slavic (Polish, or Kashubian-Polish with 25% German). So my white grandmother did not consider my white father to be "white enough" for her daughter. My father was the favorite in-law by my mom's brothers & sisters, just FYI

[@Veidr99]

Yeah my fucked mic Cherokee swedish Welsh German and yes 15% neanderthal don't know how but yea

[@CrAAAstastic]

lol and I thought I had it rough. My mom is hispanic and my dad is heinz white (lots of em) and it was never white enough for the dad's fam and vice versa with mom's. I'm so glad thinking like this is going away.

[@DMZwerg]

@@CrAAAstastic it was, slowly. Back when I was a small child Italian people had been mostly accepted as "white", the Irish had already been accepted as "white", and slavic people, especially Poles, were starting to to largely accepted as "white". The current "black neighborhoods" in Milwaukee are largely the old Polish neighborhoods for a couple reasons, one being the Poles would rent & sell to black people because they were (still or recently) being actively discriminated against whereas other white people would not. Also, the Polish neighborhoods still tended to support the local butchers and those stayed in business even as the neighborhoods changed. I recall when I first applied for jobs that the applications used to mention Italian as separate from white, think I recall slavic or Polish on the list a couple of times, and saw the change to "non-Hispanic white". But I am "a bit" older than Metatron and lived in the US all my life. By the way, I recall when Italians, and especially Sicilians, were considered "swarthy". Now then, don't think I had it that bad as my family all had great senses of humor and thus sinceone of my father's sisters married an Italian the couple bought their son a Polish-Italian Joke Book when he was old enough, and on my Mom's side they would trade Catholic jokes (my mother worked in the rectory and her oldest sister was a nun) and they would also search for new Polish jokes to share with my parents, and thus I learned that most of the Polish jokes were rewritten Irish jokes, the most obvious are the references to a Dublin brewery in "A Polish mother writing to her son". My grandfather, on the other hand, had some time of it growing up in Milwaukee only a decade or two after the "Bayview Massacre" (I try to include the terms to lookup in quotes to make internet searches easier without including links). Good luck with your very American family :)

[@pawel198812]

"Mixed marriage/couple" is a very broad term and doesn't necessarily refer to ethnic heritage. In some contexts, it may refer to religion or social class/caste. The way I see it, even an Italian American marrying an Italy Italian (or an Argentina Italian) is a type of mixed marriage, even though both parties are very close ethnically

[@DMZwerg]

@@pawel198812 the context of the term is that it is somehow "wrong". My grandmother was a bigot. Slowly she made an exception for my dad, to a degree.

[@mbalfour7]

I am so glad to see a healthy and respectful dialogue either way. I really really hope this ignites a beautiful and compassionate back and forth discussion on facts and opinions.

[@CountAdolfo]

I am third generation American. Italian descent. When my great grandparents got here, Metatron... they were NOT considered "white". You have a very solid point, there.

[@grey.knight]

Finnish from Canada. When my grandparents came they weren't considered white either and we're potentially the palest group of humans around. They were considered "Mongolid" which is actually more accurate.

[@dorugoramon0518]

@@grey.knight Are fins related to the Mongols? Didnt know that one.

[@jonahlevin4900]

@@dorugoramon0518 finno-ugric people came from the lands between ural and modern mongolia and settled in - well you can guess - finnland and hungary

[@rexmundi7811]

If your great grandparents became citizens of the USA, they were considered white. According to immigration law at the time, only whites could become naturalized citizens.

[@Nylon_riot]

The largest hanging in the US in the south was Italians. Chef boarded had to change his name twice to get his food ideas accepted because Italian food was considered low class. So no, Italians weren't considered equal.

[@lauramarielenius83]

Please don't let Internet trolls dim your light. Anyone who watches your channel knows how well versed you are in the topics you speak about. Please please don't let these assholes wear you down. From, your loyal listener.😊

[@metatronyt]

Thank you Laura

[@m0t10n80]

So you think the others aren't? How about you do a response to Dr Obenga, or Anta Diop. Let's see how you get on

[@Cumdown]

​@@m0t10n80its okay, and expected, for people to come to different conclusions brother

[@braedynhoward3644]

I'm currently studying abroad in Morocco. I am learning from Moroccan professors, some of which are not only descended from the "Moors" but are also linguists, morphologists, grammarians, and historians with Ph.Ds. They understand the Moors as being Muslim groups that were in Al-Andalus and Iberia, who came from Morocco, and then the term evolved after that time period. It's not even debated amongst local Moroccans, who are mostly of Berber and Arab descent, that it was not "black people" but Moroccans of the time, who became the "Moors". In fact, it was a Berber dynasty (for those who don't know, Berbers, or the Amazigh, are the natives of the Maghreb, North Africa, and Morocco) who conquered and united Morocco and Spain under one Islamic kingdom. This included mostly native Berbers and Arabs, the "Moroccans" of the time (a mix of many ethnic groups, but notably not black). And while there were black Africans enlisted in their armies, this was a minority, and some were slaves. They weren't usually considered Moroccans. So, in summary, no, the Moors in general WERE NOT black. Most, by todays standards, were probably a mix between lighter brown and darker brown, with a minority of "blacks". They were a mixture, mostly of Berbers, Arabs, and a small minority of Sub-Saharan Africans. But obviously, not even a century after they invaded Spain and integrated into that area of Europe, the term evolved.

[@kaoutartaki6275]

Moroccans are Berber genetically , there is no arabs in morocco , you mean here by "arab" origin the arabized berber of morocco who lost the berber language

[@braedynhoward3644]

@@kaoutartaki6275 That is a lot of the Moroccan population, but there is definitely Arab mixed into a large portion. In fact, many identify as Arab not only in culture, but in ethnicity, even though their blood is mixed.

[@kaoutartaki6275]

@@braedynhoward3644 My friend, I am Moroccan, so I understand the situation very well. Yes, there is a portion of Moroccans who identify themselves as Arabs due to the brainwashing we were subjected to for years, especially during the 1960s and 1970s, which was the period of Pan-Arabism that swept across the Middle East and North Africa. The truth is, Moroccans are not mixed at all. Genetically, all Moroccans are Berbers. The only other ethnicity found in our genetic pool is Iberian, a result of migrations throughout history since the Paleolithic era. Additionally, there is a very small percentage of Sub-Saharan genetics, which is natural since we are in Africa and are Africans. Moroccans are not mixed with Arabs. There are three types of Moroccans: 1- Berber Moroccans who speak Berber: These individuals have no ambiguity about their identity. 2- Berber Moroccans who speak Moroccan Darija: Many in this group believe they are Arabs but are, in fact, Arabized Berbers. However, they are rediscovering their true identity thanks to genetic studies and genetic test (this was also my personal experience) 3- Berber Moroccans like me: We speak Moroccan Darija but are fully aware of our true identity as Berbers. I hope this explanation clarifies things. If you have any questions, feel free to ask...I’ll be happy to answer

[@sino8r499]

I've rarely heard black people even being associated with the Moors. I always think of Islam not black

[@yoeyyoey8937]

You haven’t hung out with that many black people. The moors thing is pretty big

[@ansibarius4633]

Yes, historically there has been an association/mix-up between these two in European languages and folklore. 'Mavros' actually means black in modern Greek, if I recall correctly. (It used to be 'melas' in ancient Greek.)

[@Veidr99]

Yeah well black ppl think only black ppl are really while everyone else was made in a lab

[@DavidDrew-n6z]

All moors would likely have been Islamic or at least under Islamic regimes. But some moors would have been Black ( as in subsaharan black).

[@MW_Asura]

I'm Portuguese. Never once in my life have I associated the moors with being blak, even when first learning about them in school. It's the same for Spaniards. They're Arab/Mediterranean-looking Mulims

[@IanMM88]

He may not have an agenda but he does have a bias.

[@Tarnatos14]

Well everyone hase

[@IanMM88]

@Tarnatos14 of course

[@Chris-m8e]

To say TKM does not have an agenda is wrong His vid on recon of tut clearly agenda based

[@IanMM88]

@Chris-m8e I see, I was just taking Metatrons word for it. It's not surprising, though. If they're black, then they are almost always pro-black

[@Chris-m8e]

@@IanMM88 TKM ignored 3D mapped skull from tuts mummy claiming its racist clear agenda

[@edstar83]

The only African in Spaindards and Portuguese is E1b1b1b North African Amazigh. Averaging 7% So no the Moors were not back. Spainish black legends doesn't mean Spaindards were black either.

[@Perskk]

Yes, exactly. The moors had a few contigents of black soldiers(mostly slaves) but a black population was almost inexistent if not null in Al-Andalus.

[@user-rb7tq6rx7k]

That is not true either. Why is it so difficult for people to understand? The majority of Moors were Arab looking, some were a darker Berber looking, and a smaller amount of Moors were darker skinned/black. There are black Amazigh people.... 🙄

[@marvel22-mf1js]

quote-The only African in Spaindards and Portuguese is E1b1b1b North African Amazigh. Averaging 7% So no the Moors were not back. _________ This is incorrect non-sense. Most of the population of spain was not even moors by the way.

[@marvel22-mf1js]

Moors were black,brown and white. The further you go back the moors they were black then over times the Moors were black,brown and white.

[@acaydia2982]

Europeans did use propaganda though. Kinda how the Nazis depicted the Jews or how the North Koreans depict us. They use extremes to predict their enemies.

[@dribrom]

The 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica observed that the term Moors had "no real ethnological value." It was just a term used in the Middle Ages by Europeans to describe all the different Muslims. PS: Muslims located in South Asia were distinguished by the Portuguese historians into two groups: Mouros da Terra ("Moors of the Land") and the Mouros da Arabia/Mouros de Meca ("Moors from Arabia/Mecca" or "Paradesi Muslims").

[@holdingpattern245]

although now they loosely describe berbers and the like

[@Muhammad-HarDick]

agree as someone from the Philippines we call our Filipino Muslims as Moro

[@VeridianBlues]

Hi, Metatron! Can you do an episode about Ottomans enslavement of Slavs? Certain people are saying that they did not enslave, ra*e, take our children but that Slavs begged them to take the boys and that Slavs considered it an honor. I would like to hear what do other historians, who aren't Slavic, have to say about that. In my country we are told that some parents would cut off the hand/a finger just so the boy wouldn't be taken away, that they ra*ed, took the money if we didn't convert etc. However, there are claims (by certain groups) they were peacemakers and that Slavs are liars. I never heard that before until I started to watch some YT videos and read the comments (my mistake). Thank you!

[@JohnSmith-be1vl]

Trust me, these Slavic historians are pretty much correct. The Ottoman Empire had positive traits, but it certainly did enslave a lot of different Eastern Europeans, including many Slavs. The Janissaries were originally children taken as a "tithe" from Christian families of the region.

[@michaelkeha]

@@JohnSmith-be1vl I'd love to hear about their "positive" traits as I have yet to hear of any

[@cattraknoff]

The ones denying the crimes are the ones lying. These things did happen. Islam committed atrocities when enslaving people in all of their lands. Male slaves were commonly castrated. And yes the girls were all used a breeding stock (r*ped repeatedly for the rest of their fertile years at least). There is a religious term in Islam called Taqiyyah which is a form of deception masking the crimes of Islam or hiding the true nature of their beliefs. Basically they're religiously compelled to propagandize in favour of Islam. This is what you're encountering.

[@cattraknoff]

In reality it's probably even worse than you know. In Sunni Islam girls as young as 9 are viable for either marriage or enslavement (and they're being enslaved to be used carnally). And boys would tend to have their gonads removed.

[@cattraknoff]

In reality it's probably even worse than you know. In Sunni Islam, girls as young as nine are viable for either marriage or carnal enslavement as breeding stock.

[@Suspense1376]

You should make a video with him discussing your positions on these things. Collaboration and discussion is always the most educational

[@cotati76]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@The_Dodge_Meister]

great idea!

[@___David__]

As a Portuguese, I take umbridge with his anglophonic approach to the use of the word Moors. Portugal and Spain were the last European countries to directly deal with the Muslim invadors from North Africa. When the Brits talked about Moors in later centuries, they were borrowing the term from those countries and changing them. Under the Luso-Spaniard definition of what the Moors were, they were NOT black. Nor brown. Nor any specific colour. Moors referred to the Muslim invaders that came from the Almohad Caliphate in North Africa (on what today is Morroco, Mauritania and Algeria) which was a Berber empire. And as far as historical depictions of the Berbers go, they weren't black and still aren't black (although it's obvious extremely likely that black people were among them, specially as slaves). "Black Moors" was an English invention that expanded the concept of the Luso-Spaniard words. So no, the Moors weren't black. Sorry.

[@CRT4Dummies]

thanks for the elaboration. 👍

[@cattraknoff]

Their slaves tended to be castrated so that explains the lack of any genetic impact from their slave soldiers.

[@JK-xl8lj]

Do you know that there are lots of modern day Berbers who are black? Go look up pictures of the Tuareg (who are a large Berber tribe found throughout northwest Africa). They're undoubtedly black. Also most modern berbers have a mixed phenotype. They look very similar to mixed race black Americans like Drake and Patrick Mahomes. All the way down to the curly afro like hair most have. I live in a part of America with a large Egyptian population and I'm surprised by how many have curly afros similar to most half black half white Americans.

[@trugrit7210]

@@JK-xl8lj those Berbers mixed with SSA (Islamic slave trade, mostly). Look at photos of Rif and Kabyle Berbers. These are two groups that have lived in mostly isolation; they're not Black. Many can pass for Europeans.

[@MidnightMoses-ow1ul]

​@@JK-xl8lj yes just like there are black English It's called migration and mixing of the races its been hundreds of years so Personally i'm surprised or not all black by now .

[@trugrit7210]

We have dna tests of bodies from Moorish graves. They have some SSA ancestry but are predominately Caucasoid.

[@lucienarcos-palma3834]

Why tf people still uses caucasoid non ironically ?

[@Carnagefiend]

​@lucienarcos-palma3834 There's lots of reasons, no doubt. Consider this, despite your reasonable objection you still understood what be broadly meant.

[@zzodysseuszz]

@@Carnagefiend I didn’t. Caucasian people is less accurate and descriptive as sub Saharan is.

[@ario2264]

​@@lucienarcos-palma3834 because caucasoid is a real thing.

[@lucienarcos-palma3834]

@@ario2264 its a term from eugenics ! Pretty shure thats not what its used to describe european genetics today.

[@The0ldboy]

Some people need to travel. A trip through Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia... It is incredible how these people open the debate with the descendants of those who created the denomination itself... these are the same ones who go to Africa to tell the blacks what they should be like black lol

[@acaydia2982]

They think they were replaced by invaders

[@samiman5606]

Exactly true as native amazigh Moroccan how someone supposed to replace the inhabitants of native berbers of the anti atlas mountains who inhabitants are over 3300 big tribes in numbers ? Without talking about the tribes berbers rif mountains and the tribes berbers of the small atlas mountains and the tribes berbers of the middle atlas mountains and the tribes berbers bani mountains How someone can defeat them? 🤔

[@FireflowerDancer]

If they would even watch videos about these places, they'd see. But some people don't want to see.

[@FireflowerDancer]

​@@samiman5606I have seen travel vids of the Atlas Mountains. What a unique and beautiful place. The culture of the locals comes from the region itself, and no one can take that away ❤

[@samiman5606]

@FireflowerDancer Exactly and even all the tribes who reformed the Moroccan kingdoms all of them came from these mountains and of course all this tribes includes my tribe all of them have light skin colour except some black individuals who are few in numbers ( their origins from slave trans trade Sahara no native berbers of the regions just to be know)

[@anrikurisuto4432]

In regard to the point King brought up at around 32:00 I want to add something. In one of the earliest books I read about medieval weapons, there was an (unfortunately not sourced) quote of a sarazean warrior during the third crusade saying 'At the beginning of the battle the franks fight lions, but at the end they fight like lamb' or something, in the same way describing all european crusaders as frankish, despite the people being from all kinds of european countries. Humans are just really fast (and really good) to put things into categories. (Since I don't have an exact source for the quote I wouldn't bet a single cent on it, but if someone knows the original, feel free to add that.)

[@zuraorokamono204]

It's not from just one quote. "Franks" was a pretty common name for the European crusaders in Arab records.

[@ThatBalkanGuy.]

The Truth is we need a video about the Sea people Btw I design historical t-shirts, and I can make you a custom design

[@everdinestenger1548]

Yes, the mysterious Sea People. Please

[@seancompton5393]

Are they cousins to the tree people?​@@everdinestenger1548

[@oktusprime3637]

I actually agree. The Bronze Age Collapse is one of my favorite historical subjects.

[@iratevagabond204]

Is there even enough information about the sea peoples to make a revelatory and informative video? Honest question, not rhetorical. All the videos I've seen about the sea peoples turns out to be more about the bronze age collapse in general, and usually more specifically about other peoples.

[@mrh4900]

@@ThatBalkanGuy. weren’t they basically a loose confederation of coastal Anatolians, Greeks, and Sardinians? I believe that the Etruscans are descended from them, at least a ‘sea people’ from Anatolia.

[@benji285]

The "black Moors" did indeed exist, though, they weren't North Africans but West Africans, they were the Takruri auxiliaries who supported the Almoravids during their military campaigns, including in Europe.

[@b1gS0Wh4t]

Irish "whites" exist(ed) in America but as police n sheeeit

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

I thought he agrees with that point... I didn't think he was saying they didn't exist

[@marvel22-mf1js]

Some north africans are still black today. About Half of modern libya is black, morocco still has some black folks large parts of modern egypt have black today. Of course some folks do not include sudan as a north african country but if you are one of those who do think north sudan in north africa there there is a north african country that still mostly black.

[@marvel22-mf1js]

So alot of moors were north african blacks.

[@Alpha-lt9zv]

@@marvel22-mf1js Half of modern Libya is black? what the hell are you talking about?

[@thelastattempt666]

Its not moors, its Moops

[@sino8r499]

Looking for this one lol

[@DemakillPercy]

Beat me to it

[@chrisb7528]

Definitely moops

[@bengi423]

You didn't say "The Truth" enough

[@KevinPlump]

And the ancient Egyptians were so called black which is actually dark brown

[@lilaeckitties7524]

​​@@KevinPlump certain dynasties were but not all. Look at their artwork. Specifically the piece that has peoples from Amazigh(Libyan), Nubian, Asiatic/Syrian, and Eygptian pictured. Look at the differences in skin tone. Light, dark, light and medium (bronze). They were more of a mix of ethnicities. And it had a wide variance. Some may identified more with our modern view of black or with white. Its just a very complicated.

[@bengi423]

​​@@KevinPlumpI meant he didn't say the words "the truth" enough, because he says it a lot in his videos I wasn't criticising him

[@markzuckergecko621]

​@@KevinPlumpare the white supremacists in the room with you right now? Do they talk to you? Do they hear when you talk to them?

[@LM-oi3sf]

​@@KevinPlumpspeaking factually doesn't make someone a supremacist

[@houseaccount3293]

What I found laughable in some ways is how we know the Berbers are the Indigenous group of North Africa, and the Berbers made up a large portion of the Moors. Why is this even something that's up for debate. We Know the Arabs conquered Christian North Africa, And after the Moors emerged and was a mix of Berber, Arab and some sub African people.

[@kaoutartaki6275]

The moors were mostly berbers , the arab were a small minorty among the moors. The Arab migration to North Africa was relatively small in terms of numbers and did not have a significant demographic impact on the indigenous populations.....the north africans are overwhelmingly Berber genetically.

[@SirZelean]

Omg, this guys is SO, SOOOO polite and willing to have a respectful conversation, that I actually really got emotional. Weird, I know, but dude. I'm so tired of the constant fighting on the internet that it's so cozy seeing people being humane instead of crazed beasts.

[@calafiori]

.My 2 cents regarding the word "moor": in portuguese and spanish the words mouro and moro, respectively, have no racial connotation. It is simply used to describe muslim people from the north of Africa. In fact, even though it gained a racial connotation in the english language later on, it never happened in portuguese or spanish. Obviously when we talk about the moors here in the Iberian peninsula, we form a mental picture of the people and we do not imagine white people, but a mix of brown and black people, but the word used have no racial meaning.

[@user-vg6sg7kh1q]

In french the word maure is used but there is also the derived words moricaud for brown skin, morillon for black grape, mauresque for the art style from muslin spain Latin mauri was changed in French to maure. they used the word maure for the arabs that conquered Spain because they were coming from Mauritanie, the country of the black people . But they also used maure sometimes to designate black people. They used it to include muslim from north africa including turks. It was used in heraldry for black and café maure for the visitor room in arab house . This shifting of the use to designate muslim, race, geographical area make it impossible to use it generally without having to do a case by case

[@herpyderpy2869]

Idk if it applied in period (as in, 16th-19th century) but here in the Philippines, some of the southern Muslim populations of Mindanao are referred to as "Moro"

[@inigo9000]

@@user-vg6sg7kh1q "they were coming from Mauritanie, the country of the black people" ???? The country Mauritania didden't even existed yet in the 1950's, Mauretania was a Amazigh kingdom in the north of present-day Morocco & Algeria unrelated to the modern country of Mauritania that is far more south of it. Before the Maure region was subdued by Muslim Arabs they had allready been conquered and made part of the Roman empire for over 700 years, Nobody ever described Mauretania the country of the black people that would have been more than ridiculous, many of the same people still livin there

[@user-vg6sg7kh1q]

@@inigo9000 I was not talking about the current country but what was named at the time by the French. like in the "Dictionnaire etymologique de la langue françoise" by Ménage XVII th century p221

[@inigo9000]

@ so based on something around a 1000 years after the event? That makes Total sense 🫤and also that is the modern Country that before was a French colony, but even in the case of the modern country it’s a absurd naming to anyone that knows the region and historical culture, it’s probably the only example the French actually made the situation for black Africains better as before being since 1000ac classed as slave , even if not much better and the problematic situation for the whole countries population today

[@SirAbduliscool]

I can’t believe it’s not butter!

[@LatimusChadimus]

I can, so can my gut 😂😂😂 keep your nearly plastic spread to yourself 🙃

[@admincxs1670]

😂

[@chichiboypumpi]

not all Africans are black, unless they're someone historically significant, famous.

[@MW_Asura]

Not all historical figures are blck, unless they're someone famous, historically significant... in a positive way

[@KevinPlump]

@@chichiboypumpi yes they were before invasion and trade.

[@CMc-v7z]

​@@KevinPlump God help us if you truly believe that. We ALL have a common ancestor in Africa right? Are we ALL black?

[@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215]

Elon Musk!

[@DarkAzreal77]

​@@KevinPlumpok genius

[@Alexandros.Mograine]

Im glad to finally hear the truth about the truth about the truth.

[@MaxZadow]

As I understand it, Middle Ages Middle Eastern people called all Europeans 'Franks'. Can we have a video 'The Truth about the Franks' revealing not every European was a Frank and that Frank isn't the same as French.

[@Theonlyoneto]

what is a frank in that context

[@Welldonewaryaaa]

One thing I love about your channel Metatron, is your integrity and love for the truth

[@racenturtlez]

15:07 right exactly, he's the exact opposite of badempanada. civility is not dead! just bleeding out

[@matheusmterra]

I would like to present another perspective here. When discussing these videos, it's dealing with the translations for English and the English language. However, language exists to serve a function, based on why people use certain words, and the words exist in order to describe the things that culture would be exposed to. For instance, there's no reason why Beduins would have a word for a Jaguar. With that in mind, why don't we look at a language that had to deal with the Moors directly A LOT and also dealing with Africa A LOT: lemme present my language, Portuguese. In Portuguese, there are two words used to describe black people. One is "negro", which translates in english to "Black" in terms of skin color (the color itself as in paint, it's "preto"), the other word used to describe dark skin color is "Moreno", the root of the word comes exactly from the Moor people. The word "Moreno" was used to describe in Brazil the mixed ethnicity of black africans with white europeans, a lighter skin tone closer to brown rather than black, and "negro" was used to describe the skin color of black africans. Nowadays the terms are used interchangeably, since "moreno" can also mean black hair color, and it's also sometimes used as a less offensive way of saying "negro" (although this is a whole can of worms, since it fundamentally supports that being "negro" is a bad thing, so it has a very racist root). So yeah, in portuguese, keeping in mind Portugal had maybe the most exposure to both Moors and Black Africans out of any european kingdom (maybe only Spain compares), and in portuguese there is that clear difference when you say "negro" and "moreno". But I know you won't take my word for it, I'm eager for when you fact check this and have another argument in your pocket to defend the truth. Spread your wings and fly high, meu amigo!

[@jeepeedurocher]

24:10 This part is so funny to me because I recently read the foundation trilogy, and one of the characters was described as a "dark man" and I had assumed it meant the guy was black, thing is, this was referring to his hair lol. And this also happens in Lord of the Rings when they describe aragorn for example, lol.

[@TheBayru]

This also confuses me often, because what was referred to as a white when I was a kid is now 'platina blonde' and a black was someone with black hair. For skincolor we used 'blanke' for a white person and 'n****' for a black person. Now, because the n-word is banned, if they say "Mace Windu is black", my brain still goes like "no, he's bald". What's even sillier is that if they then say "I don't mean the hair color you silly", my brain goes "He's a nazi?!" (black uniform)😅

[@LeeTheKnight]

You cant be a native English speaker but then base your whole understanding/misunderstanding on an English etymology of an exonym when the subject group are not English speakers and didnt even call themselves moors. Moroccans/Algerians almost certainly descend from the "moors" and USA Black Americans & black Caribbean folk almost certainly do not descend from the "moors" whatever colour they may have been.

[@theacolyte9223]

but what if the really really really believe in it and want it super bad?

[@Zee-i4e]

@@theacolyte9223what if countless photos and written evidence as well as experts agree they were African…

[@christopherm202dcfinest2]

There isn’t a black American in the video, fck you worried bout us for boy

[@theacolyte9223]

@@Zee-i4e African or dark skinned? If you had these with the other side really wanting it to be their way, then they obviously cancel each other out, it works that way with many contested topics, right?

[@Zee-i4e]

@ all native africans are dark skinned the africans living in north and southern africa today are not natives they are there behind invasions

[@jorgec.a3123]

Hello Metatron! I'm from Spain so this topic is touchy for me, I just wanted to say that the English word Moor seems to come from our word Moro which originally meant someone from Mauritania and not someone black. Also I want to say that the christian kingdoms of Spain (from now on the Spanish so as to simplify) did not describe the moors as black but rather as Arabic. Also I want to note that most of the moors came from what today are Morocco and Algeria. Furthermore when the Spanish encountered black people in the armies of the Al-Andalus kingdoms (the moors) they would note them as is reflected on the accounts of the battle of Las Navas de Tolosa where a description is given of how the Kingdom of Navarra got to have the chains in their flag, as the moorish chieftain's tent (can't remember his name) was guarded by black soldiers that were chained to each other and around the tent. Also I can't but feel a bit sad that the Spanish point of view on this matter is completely overlooked as both of you seem to resort to the English language, when Al - Andalus was and is a big part of our identity and past.

[@kaoutartaki6275]

They describe the moors as Muslims not arabs , the moors refers in spain to the muslim BERBERS of north africa who were the majority , and minority of arabs of middle east

[@Oppolo77]

The word "Moor" was first referred to the Amazigh/berbers of the Maghreb region during the middle ages but it later also included the Arabs, Iberian and West African muslim converts

[@SGT_RPGames]

Very respectful on both sides, this is what I enjoy about actual history discussion on YT

[@rakification]

One should not forget, that on Greek "mavros“ means black, even people from Crete who look tanned very brown are called mavro but also dark Africans are called mavri

[@padalan2504]

Ye, some languages would call grass blue a few hundred years ago. Even now in English, wine is never white, a black eye is actually black for only a few days and people argue over what colour a dress is. So just going off the literal meaning of the word is a bad approach.

[@st3019]

It is ironic that in Mauritania the term moor is associated with amazigh Berbers people by black Mauritanians themselves. Black Mauritanians say they are NOT moors . Black Americans want to convince black people they are “ real moors “ .

[@CRT4Dummies]

African americans have a chip on their shoulder the size of Mount Killimanjaro. It's disgraceful and embarrassing, quite frankly.

[@FireflowerDancer]

"One man's denial claim is another man's brag" lol

[@rbrendel1302]

We actually see the semantic shift on words happening right now - especially in the US. When people talk about a "Muslim Ban" for example they don't actually talk about the religion - they talk about people from the middle east. The longer this goes on, the higher the probability that one day the word "Muslim" will become more a general term for "Arabs" in the american population. And if this is documented (as it on some levels already is today), historians one day in a few thousand years could have quite a similar exchange of the "truth about Muslims".

[@amorinooo]

So many comments on this, but just thanks for presenting this. This is how I’ve felt for ages. As a professional genealogist and historian, I often work within the context of old definitions of white, black, and a range of identifiers within the caste system. The truth is that the identifiers were nearly completely color based, whereas today it’s more cultural based. I’ve been guilty of swaying my definition based on my audience (and of course, if I’m writing for clients or talking with friends). But I think today people use descriptors in the terms of a culture…hence why many famous cultural blacks or Latinos who have “whitewashed” themselves for physical appeal and who may be the same exact color as say a Tunisian or a Jew, are still called black even if they appear more white (or wheat, as is said).

[@jonahlevin4900]

"The truth is that the identifiers were nearly completely color based, whereas today it’s more cultural based." wouldnt it make more sense if it was the other way? that before the globalization they would have a more cultural meaning as today where basically two third up to three quarter of the world are some kind of western culture?

[@hanyu_dada]

a genealogist and historian using the term "latino" to describe "race" is funny my "genealogist" friend

[@geogeo2299]

The Ancient Greeks would describe a modern Saudi as black. Plus, it is highly dubious whether the Greek commoner including the vast majority of the authors, had ever seen actual sub-Saharan Blacks or even Aethiopeans in their lives, so as to have a standard of comparison. And then there's the nicknames. Greeks might name 'black' someone who had impressively black hair, or was particularly tanned - Μελάμπους, whose name means "black-footed" was probably such a case.

[@aleveryonesdaddyhorford8109]

There are some Greek busts from classical antiquity depicting Ethiopians in black marble, so they definitely had some interaction.

[@cattraknoff]

@@aleveryonesdaddyhorford8109 Indeed, in the Illiad there was even an Ethiopian king who was thought to be a warrior roughly on par with Achilles. This is one of the things that really pissed me off about them turning Zeus and Achilles Black in a Trojan war series made around a decade ago. They turned those characters Black rather than taking the opportunity to introduce a little-known historic character in the Illiad. They could've had their diversity while retaining accuracy. They could've even shown him to be a badass by having him spar with Achilles (they were on the same side) to establish that they can go toe-to-toe by having it end in a draw. Instead they chose to destroy history.

[@geogeo2299]

@@cattraknoff Όμηρος does not mention that Μέμνων was black though, and yes, he would point that out. In fact, Greek myth presents him as the son of Ηώς, the goddess of the dawn, and Τιθωνός, a Troan prince whom she 'stole' and carried away to the end of the world (namely Αιθιοπία). Therefore the evidence point to the Greeks picturing him as white, albeit 'King of the Aethiopeans'. The blackening of Μέμνων was the work of the Romans.

[@geogeo2299]

@@aleveryonesdaddyhorford8109 The interactions were largely in re. to Greek mariners / traders travelling to Egypt and meeting Aethiopian slaves there. However the exposure of the Greek commoner to how actual Sub-saharan blacks looked like, so as to apply to his popular use of the word Μαύρος the meaning that it has today, was minimal to non-existent.

[@emmanuelseka1026]

How do you know ?

23:47 yup I told my Peruvian gf that she would be considered "brown" here but she said she wouldn't be in her country. I have family members darker than her and they're still considered white (well I'm Italian so maybe not by all as you pointed out). It's weird.

[@JesusMartinez-fy3yf]

It's a dichotomy for them... They only see Sub-saharian and da peepo dat stole errythang n's shieeet

[@bellasmom2597]

As i understood it moors referred to anyone not local and had a dark complexion. It was used similar to "people of colour"

[@ogun9645]

Spanish ppl have the same color as north africans ,and even if not they arent far of in looks,so why they would called tham ppl of color

[@cArLaEzXy1992]

I'd really love to see the two of you collaborating. Whether it's a debate, a discussion, or just 2 dudes discussing their love of history. The way you both were initially defensive, let's stay intellectual honest now, then began to respectful engage, to then developing respect. Truly organic beautiful human interactions I love to see.

[@anthonyrandazzo8836]

22:09 My grandfather (who was born in the US to immigrant parents) had to return to Italy at the turn of the last century because he couldn’t find work. He was classified as a ‘non-white caucasian’. Italians and Irish were treated this way throughout the US in the early 1900s.

[@Cardan011]

Same for most South and Southeastern Europeans: Greeks, Spaniards, Portuguese, Serbs, Croats, Albanians

[@nicholasking6066]

You and shad and skulagrim taught me there are in fact people who handle conflict politely and with ethics in a world and day and age where that is rare and precious, it is wonderful to see another creator who exemplifies the same qualities. So few men especially in our generation are speaking out with such politeness let alone doing so and still attacking false information and unethical behavior unapologetically and with true character. It is heartening to see another young man setting a stellar example of honest integrity filled masculinity. I did not always have the best examples of that growing up and seeing all of you showing such moral fiber is something I would love to have had to lean on when I was a child and I hope to be as admirable in my interactions with anyone who looks up to me in any area of my life. I am a bit of a Lumix with a head full of rocks and saw dust so eloquence is not precisely my forte in any measurable manor but I do hope to be as honest and honorable in all of my interactions with others. Thank you both and thank you all for setting such a stellar example for all of us but especially for today's youth!

[@mikehipps1015]

Perfect example of why I respect and trust Metatron.

[@dontdeletemeyoutube6689]

Kangs monologue? Just kidding but seriously the dude is very much in the “you can’t prove it isn’t x ergo it must be x despite various factors which I will ignore.” Props to him for not being on the usual level of Afro-centrists though.

[@phil5365]

I remember mentioning the *Eurasian Backmigration* and the presence of R1b as far as lake Chad. in his replies once and getting some convoluted fantasy reply about R1b * actually* emerging in Africa and spreading out from there in the reverse direction!... Ludicrous denial of reality.

[@EpicOfChillgamesh]

A two-sided respectful and rational discussion. I don't think this is allowed on the internet! Good on both of these creators, this is how humans ought to behave.

[@drsch]

Guy hates Wikipedia? We're already basically brothers at this point.

[@j.r.warren5794]

As long as I breath historical fact will rule over subjective truth.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

So please leave morality and religion out of it

[@j.r.warren5794]

@@yoeyyoey8937 Morality has absolutely nothing to do with fact. And as far a religion goes, it is a fact that it exists. You want to change history to suit your moral values. That's what is wrong with society these days.

[@MW_Asura]

Historical fact will rule over subjective truth even after that. Don't worry

[@j.r.warren5794]

@@MW_Asura So you claim... Are you willing to stand alone against the crowd like Metatron? It's easier said than done.

[@yoeyyoey8937]

@@j.r.warren5794 yeah that’s why I said to leave that stuff out of it

[@mophia339]

I'd argue that they are Sub-Saharan, as we can trace their roots to Sub-Saharan Africa, it's the same reason we'd call someone from Europe a European, even if they populated North Africa or the Middle East.

[@The_Truth-]

Who the hell are you to argue about African people below the Sahara, who do not call themselves “sub-Saharan”? That’s disrespectful to them and was created to try and separate the African origins of North Africa, specifically Kemet.

[@MarkHorton-n3t]

I googled Berber some time ago searching for pictures. The images ranged from very dark skined people with black eyes and black wavy hair to light skined people with blue eyes and straight light brown hair. I didn't count but the lighter skined people seemed to outnumber the darker skined people. The pictures chosen by Google may not represent actual demographics.

[@samiman5606]

If I remember, the American magazine named (the Science) published these two years two pictures of the shape of the Amazigh skull ( Homosapien) as the scientists called it in that magazine and they put in its left a European skull and called it( neanderthal) and they compared and found almost the same shape as the two skulls only There is a slight difference and the scientist Ibn Khaldoun also believed in putting the same comparisons between the shape and skull of the Berbers and the shape and skull of the European man and said they are almost similar in the shape of the two skulls of both these races

[@Query_8P]

I hear two lovely people calmly and respectfully lay their points down here and disagree on some points and point out where they do agree and it is freaking lovely, gonna check King's videos out after this

[@Dingo_Winterwolf]

Very well spoken, collected, and polite. Such a breath of fresh air for a response|response. I'm excited to see where he takes this matter in the future.

[@sethfg]

I have a Bachelors in Cultural Anthropology. Without knowing exactly why I think I remember the Moores being a mixed group of Arabs or Black. Maybe more so Black. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Really interesting topic. Curious to hear the arguments.

[@rebbybam230]

Yah they're mixed

[@MaysMors]

As a Spanish speaker, moreno in Latin America varies, a lot, depending on your skin, your city, country, etc... It's not clear cut, in fact, you might hear someone calling this artist or that soccer player "moreno" then you see the photo and the person it's "coal-dark" and then you might think well isn't this shade black ? Then the next day you might talk to someone and use the word "moreno" to refer to someone who's "black", and the person might be offended, they might see themselves as darker or lighter skinned, then you look like a racist and might have to back track, since this is a trend, at least in my country that started like 15 years ago, before that, we saw each other more or less as the same group, at least when it came to ethnicity, we all agreed to feel latino, then the division started to ramp up with the nationality, there are a lot of latinos that are not from here that came to work, or at least they appeared so, they committed crimes, then we stopped being as welcoming, then the religious aspect came into the picture since atheism its increasing also wokeism it's increasing, then the racism "appear" after like 75 years of mutual respect, generally speaking, now we are divided, because in the US and Europe, the people are divided.

[@b1gS0Wh4t]

As the concept of race was intended to do.

[@revenantronin8377]

I always find it interesting because where I'm from, we don't have racism, although we do have tribalism in less developed areas... We are all what you would call "black", but we are separated not by "race" but by "language" and "culture". There are some places that share a town border that at least once every decade or so, conflict arises that causes a lot of death and destruction and it dates back hundreds of years (sound familiar). Black people seeing other black people as lesser than is not uncommon similar to how some "white" people think Metatron (an Italian) is not white... Or in the same way that White Supremesists see other races (that's an extreme tho). I think separation and conflict is human nature, we may be evolved and intelligent but we are still "animals". Where there is no race war, there is tribal war! A lion, Leopard, Tiger, Jaguar are all "Panthera", yet lions kill leopards... wolves kill coyotes and so on... (that's the "race" comparison) but Lions kill lions of other Prides, Chimps kill other Chimp tribes and so on (that's where my example reflects in nature) I'm Ghanaian by the way, from the West African country, Ghana (in case you were wondering)... It's funny because Africans see other Africans (from neighbouring countries) as brothers and sisters, a Nigerian has no problems with a Ghanaian or Cameroonian, but within our own countries, "we" hate each other... Funny how that works huh. edit: kinda like China and Taiwan, Israel and Pakistan, Russia and Ukraine, South Korea and North Korea... These aren't different races, just different cultures, religions, politics and/or ethnicities. On a smaller scale, look at how America has gangs, cribs and bloods (blue and red) yet black people all the same... they'd rather kill their own brothers and when a white man wearing a different gang badge (from their perspective) shows up, they raise their hands in the air and willingly get handcuffed lmao... Look at how Cartel groups kill each other. I think the issue is not racism, at the very root humans like to categorize each other in groups that have opposing ideals, and then those in powerful positions use that fact to sow hate and animosity in the general public, and sometimes it works (too well) especially in areas where education is scarce and people do not know better. And it all starts at home (as most behaviours do) and then gradually it gets to a national level. That's why evil men command loyal soldiers, you'd think, "don't these guys understand that their leader is a wicked man, why do they follow his orders?"... they do understand, they understand that they are right and justified because that's how they were brought up, their value system of right and wrong alligns with their "tyrant" leader's own values... Human's are sophisticated beings that can be easily corrupted on a massive scale. Religion (at least Christianity, from my experience) tries to fix this by preaching togetherness and valuing one's neighbour as you value yourself, with the consequence of sin being Hell. In a meta way, this aims to do away with conflict on all levels, be it tribal, racial, cultural or political, a Christian is first and foremost a brother in Christ. And I think for the most part, it works in my opinion. I'm probably yapping too much lol, I just found this topic interesting and ended up typing every random thought that came to mind...

[@MaysMors]

@@revenantronin8377 the part that truly baffles me it's that people find new reasons to fight, even if there's no real reason 🤣🤦🏻

[@MaysMors]

@@b1gS0Wh4t pardon my ignorance, what do you mean?

[@revenantronin8377]

@@MaysMors Yup! They cant articulate why they hate the other side to you once you get past the surface level stuff like skin colour or language... They just learned to hate the other side from people around them and never truly questioned "Why?", and then they teach it to their kids and the cycle of hate continues and it gets to a point where the main reason for the conflict is lost, nobody remembers why they started hating each other, just that they do... lol

[@tolmine3545]

Poles were called "The black men of europe" because they helped Haitians in their independence. This means that as a Pole i have gained an N-word pass for eternity.

[@Vonhia181]

French and Spanish also fought on the side of blacks in Haiti, and there were only a handful of poles. Dessalines did, however, declare everyone regardless of race a nèg after the revolution, deciding to spare to the Poles and Germans and Spaniards and loyal French.

[@DropthatDookie]

​@@Vonhia181oh please barely any French and Spanish fought

[@niokandege]

Go and check your archives and see for yourself. Any European can do that, but doesn't. You don't know your own history, but rely solely on Internet commentaries to shape your thoughts, beliefs and opinions, when the 'truth' is within your grasp if you get off your arse... 😳😳

[@tbishop4961]

From my perspective, you're "melenated"😂 You can't drink from my fountain in 1950

[@mattheopichetti9258]

Academic debate and discussion is literally one of the pillars upon which society is built. Staying in an echo chamber where only your own opinions and beliefs are ever reflected back causes atrophy in overall societal intelligence. This is great content, i cannot wait for more!

[@MS-io6kl]

18:35 at least in German there were two groups Moor were Muslims from Africa whereas Saracenes were Muslims from Arabia and the Levante.

[@conniepayne4425]

I thought I remembered that distinction too!

[@DOO-DOO-DOO-45-47]

It didn't take me too long of research to find out that moors does not mean one color. Or a color at all.

[@blackmichael75]

There is obviously a difference in the populations north and south of the Sahara. You can verify this easily by going to, say, Algeria, and then Nigeria, and noticing that the predominant populations look different. Why can't the word "Moor" as used historically in English, mean *either* of these things? English people sometimes used to use words that referred to peoples and countries quite loosely in the past. For example, English sailors used to refer to anyone from the Netherlands, Scandinavia or Germany as a "Dutchman".

[@kathilisi3019]

About the shifting definition of "black": I remember reading F.H. Burnett's book "The Secret Garden" as a child, where the maid Martha says to the main character something like "when I heard you were from India, I thought you'd be black", and I was really confused because I never thought of Indians as black. Also, in some folk tales and songs from Europe, people are referred to as "black" when it seems (through context) to refer only to hair colour or maybe slightly darker skin like someone from the Balkans might have.

[@lisam4101]

An academic discussion between the two of you would be epic. Thank you for sharing this video and introducing me to a new channel. PS I will go back a finish the videos I didn’t finish because I’m a mom, so therefore I am lucky if I can get through any length video without multiple interruptions 😂. I love being a mom (said with blissful sincerity)! PS I am always on the look out for more historical channels to supplement the kids education with. I generally have them watch independently on their own account to help the channels I have found. I love the fact that you will admit that you made a mistake. I have come to value your opinion because of your honesty and willingness to accept the truth even if you don’t agree. Thank you and your team, for your research! It is very much appreciated, from at least one homeschool mom. I’m pretty sure you guys have more. If there are more please comment at let me and the Metatron team know that I am not alone, thank you.

[@leroidethunes3913]

In Spain the term 'moro'(moor) still refers to, as metatron says, people of islamic faith broadly and seems it was indeed that way since the origins of its usage as it can be noted by, for example, a late medieval/early renaissance tune 'paseabase el rey moro'(the moorish king strolled) wich narrates the loss of king Boabdil's Granada into christian hands, king Boabdil was not a black African as far as it is known, he was of Arabic descent. Indeed later examples of the use of 'moor' in other European countries make it interchangeable with 'black', perhaps because these countries had much less contact with them than Spain did, thus, losing the original meaning while it did survive in Spain.

[@intelliGENeration]

Moor was a derogatory term for Muslim invaders… who had black people in their armies. It’s like calling Greeks “Gypsies”… but they’re not. I’m European, but was nicknamed “Egyptian” (Evgjit) my whole life… As a matter of fact, the word Gypsy comes from “Egyptian”… and that goes to tell you what Egyptians looked like. Just a mix of Euro-Semitic-Africans… very close to Indian/Roma folks. Just the fact that the words were used loosely, we cannot take any European reference seriously in the understanding of what “black” or “swarthy” means… especially if it’s from lands far away from the African frontier. To the Northern Europeans, even Italians, Spanish and Greeks are “blacks”. Moor is a “catch-all” word. “Katran” or “Zift” means “black” African. Zift means “bitumen” color 😊 Big difference!

[@MS-io6kl]

18:27 Slight correction, as far as I can tell, the term Moors had become an umbrella term for people from Africa in general in the Middle Ages. As Franks had been an umbrella term for Catholic Europeans in the Islamic world during the crusades or Sklavoi the Byzantine name for the Slavs became the root of the Enflish word dlave and the German Sklave because even though the Byzantines had Slave from all over Eurasia and Africa, by far the largest group were Slavs. As all black peoples Europeans knew at the time came from Africa the term Moor also became a synonym for Negro or Black.

[@sektaba]

the spaniards did not lie in telling that their greatest hero worked for "moors"...why would they lie about the race depiction on the cantiga illustration? LoL

[@bschneidez]

This guy seems great. The way he opened the video on points of agreement really gave the impression that he is after the truth above any kind of emotional or ideological goals. He didn't manage to convince me, but I noticed that I was far more open to his arguments than I usually am in discussions of this subject. That attitude is how you convince people of things. I'll happily tune into any future dialogue between the two of you going forward. It's an infinetly better learning environment than the usual passive-aggressive (or just agressive) mud slinging that often comes along with discussions about black history.

[@The_Truth-]

Meanwhile you have no biases towards someone like metatron all because his tone sooths you mind even when lies are being told. Interesting.

[@Eternal_Redemption]

"I am the Truth." - Jesus

[@RomarioDowner-x1h]

AMEN 🙏🙏🙏

[@LordComradeAnarchoCapitalus]

'I am the Truth.'- Also every other guy who thought he was divine

[@tristanloveday5240]

​@@LordComradeAnarchoCapitalus What other religious figures claimed divinity and exclusivity as a path to salvation?

[@racenturtlez]

for real after the badempanada bs, this is SO refreshing

[@metatronyt]

Thanks!

[@racenturtlez]

@ no, thank YOU, good sir!

[@trenae77]

Metatron’s is a true Educator’s drive. While I didn’t teach on the Uni level (HS English), I always welcomed my students to challenge me if they felt I was wrong on something. Most often I was able to counter their argument, several times I found their argument valid and Extra Credit ensued. One time … how was I to know the Midwest truly doesn’t know how to pronounce Versailles properly???

[@redeemedpoetYTwatcher]

Ver-sigh? Idk, I'm a southerner

[@riichobamin7612]

French pronounciation is so tricky. They write so many extra words 😂😂😂

[@NewUser000NewUser]

At Uni, I had a teacher who would grad me poorly and that I always have to get a revision of grades. Was asking hin why so few points for an answer n without saying a words he was bumping it a few points as he knew he graded unfairly. He did that the whole semester because I was the only student challenging him amd wanting to debate.

[@riichobamin7612]

@NewUser000NewUser man that teacher sucks ! When was this ?

[@NewUser000NewUser]

@riichobamin7612 4 years ago. Was a harsh hit to my vision of university.

[@Sworddove]

Absolutely wonderful when scholars can agree to disagree in a very intellectual and charitable manner while being polite and friendly towards each other. ❤🙂

[@TheChadTI]

I think Dennis Hopper in True Romance is the final word on the Moors.😂

[@CheddarGetter]

Whaaaaat? Metatron and the "We wuz kangz" crowd don't see eye to eye? I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED. Well I'm not THAT shocked.

[@r1234233]

you obviously didn't watch the video

[@yoeyyoey8937]

Wait like the ironic we wuz kings or the real we wuz kings crowd?

[@FrancisFjordCupola]

Of course, the Metatron is an Italian. Rome! And of course, Rome did away with its kings.

[@archongaur1191]

debunking black supremacists and their historical revisionism is always welcome content...

[@yoeyyoey8937]

Tbf it could use some revision after centuries of what imperialism did to it

[@obiwanshinobi87]

I guess you didn't watch the video considering Meta literally gives him props for NOT having such an agenda.... oof

[@keeferChiefer]

How is he a “black supremacist”?

[@KevinPlump]

@@obiwanshinobi87 👍🏾🫡

[@KevinPlump]

@archongaur1191 explain black supremacy if there is such a thing. I'll wait...

[@VespasianJudea]

Who celebrates being ruled by a caliphate that established slavery? Oh yeah, this guy.

[@doo2786]

Slavery was always established. We can say the same thing and worse about the Romans too you know.

[@matzekatze7500]

33:10 this was SOOO good lol Reward for watching your videos, little easter egg there, please make this more often

[@edwinsolis5710]

As someone who speaks spanish, we use the word “Trigueño” to use generally for light skinned people with a tan. And despite this being etymologically tied to “wheat color”, its also been used as a substitute for Black when referring to Dark Skinned people in order to avoid the negative connotation of “Negro” So yeah, the way we use these words is tricky. It necessitates a holistic view of language that goes beyond just etymology and relies on social dynamics and racial diversity. A term intended for one thing can be used for many others.

[@koja69]

0:20 works great :D

[@brunoesteves5544]

At the end (after min 29) several points that are being answered are not presented, they must be mistankingly cut during video editing.

[@metatronyt]

Unfortunately they had to be trimmed after the video was made public, as the music used by him was copyrighted and it removed the monetization. Monetization is now restored but those section are gone. Thanks for watching that far into the video.

[@brunoesteves5544]

​@@metatronyt How unfortunate, I was loving the discussion. I'm going to watch the original for the takes that couldn't make it. Thank you for the video!

[@LeSpicey]

An interesting thing is that in French, the word “Maures” which brought the word “Moores” in English, has never been used to describe specifically black people. The word itself originally described people from Mauritania and then by extension to the North African people, specifically from the Maghreb. Arguing based on the English meaning of the word, even more so its more modern meaning, is nonsensical when talking about History.

[@garanceahran7953]

Tu racontes des conneries

[@LeSpicey]

@ Quel superbe argument

[@isapatchouly9095]

Side note about the definition of skin color. As you probably know, Portugal and Spain were invaded by the Moors for 5 centuries. To this day, in Portugal, people that have a darker complexion (darker as olive skin), are called moors. Maybe because we think that they are moor descendants, or maybe it is purely descriptive..I really don't know. But, is just to add to the argument of the complexity of description of skin color. And personal fact, I am of olive skin and I am mixed race ( my family comes from Angola). Since I was little everyone called me black, and it took me years to actually understand that factually speaking, I am actually white. That hit me hard at 30years old when I lived in Mauritius for a couple of years, and where everyone look at me as an ovni, every time I told them I was from African descent and that I considered myself mixed race... everyone was like.."girl you are just white". In Europe I am considered olive skin I guess, but it really depends of whom I am speaking to, and if they know my origins or not. So yeah, not such a simple definition.

[@dlon4539]

There was a time in America where mixed race people hid their heritage passing as white. If they were found out, they were lynched.

[@danielbateman6518]

We are all shades of wheat

[@spartanhawk7637]

It’s honestly refreshing hearing a historian I disagree with come at a debate without being a jerk.