The Twisted Case of Christian "Kit" Martin

[@Elirides]

No clickbaits, no begging for subs, straight to the point content, funny, respectful and does his homework, this is probably the best channel I've seen in years.

[@mitadhombremitadanimal2207]

Me too

[@mitadhombremitadanimal2207]

In a perfect world all the channels from youtube should be like these!

[@dorothykilgallenwasmurdere1653]

He'd never asked, nor begged for money either, unlike Gavagan. Love Mike.

[@Mike--Oxmall]

Have you not seen the official Spongebob Squarepants Channel?

[@Arealurbanmom]

Agreed

[@evanpenn1]

How is it that Mike, a guy on youtube, is better than anyone I’ve ever seen on television doing these stories? I totally look forward to each one.

[@burnerbrecks5]

Gift of the Irish gab

[@kevinanderson2218]

I have thought the same thing. That is the reason why I never skip the commercials and always give his videos a thumbs up.

[@nickmotsarsky4382]

He's not. Mike is entertaining, but sometimes he doesn't show respect to some of these horrific crimes with his constant corny jokes and saying "goo" and "turd". And it sounds like you've been watching some shitty TV..

[@imsorrythankyouplease7613]

Imagine the kind of person that gets put in charge of what’s on a tv station. Boring, corporate, unprincipled, maximum profit for minimum effort. Is it any wonder that tv is terrible?

[@nickmotsarsky4382]

Coffeehouse Crime and Joshua Miles do this far better and with more respect to the victims.

[@joycewilliams967]

I followed this case pretty closely and I don’t believe that he was proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. I was stunned when he was found guilty of all charges. To me the shell casing found on the porch 5 months later and his dog tags left at the scene we so blatantly planted that it was ludicrous. I think it boiled down to the fact that the jury just didn’t like the guy. That he came across to them as cocky. I’m not saying he’s Captain America but I don’t believe he’s a murderer either. I think you’re right that this one feels far from over, Mike.

[@rolo101]

I think I would act the same way if I was being accused of a crime I didn't commit....I'd be pist and feel frustrated....that's what I kept thinking when watching him on the stand....which I believe was his demise....he should have never taken the stand....imo!

[@robertm3951]

The fact that he took the stand means that the defense was desperate. So either there was more evidence than presented here or the defense was incompetent. The jury does not get a chance not to like someone who never testifies.

[@rbrowning9617]

Based on what I see here , they did not prove guilt. He comes across as very believable and credible. She comes across as vindictive and not credible. I hope they find the evidence to clear him.

[@dragonballz900]

I could honestly care less if its beyond a reasonable doubt or not, i think he is guilty and that's all that matters.

[@numbers8151]

@@dragonballz900 " i think he is guilty and that's all that matters" ? So evidence means nothing? proving beyond reasonable doubt means nothing? what if he was innocent, would you retract this statement or still stick to your uneducated opinions?

[@doom4067]

A shell casing isn't something that investigators would miss. They're combing the crime scene looking for stray hairs that they might be able to use for DNA.

[@dakota9650]

Investigators miss things like that all the time. They’re not especially smart or anything. They just worked as an officer long enough to get a job as detective.

[@aliciacarstensen7904]

You have to have a bachelors degree to make detective besides a test you have to pass before promotion. But ofcourse you already knew that cuz unlike detectives you have superior intelligence. Because that's how highly intelligent folks spend their time...on KZbin insulting others intelligence!😂😂😂😂😂

[@alexrennison8070]

@@aliciacarstensen7904I get your point but there are some right Walnuts with degrees also haha.

[@Tomdog83]

In the last few decades solely circumstantial cases have been more and more prominent. Reasonable doubt used to mean what it does. The way verdicts go since the turn of the century is scary. Every jury is automatically contaminated now due to social media and "News" from one's phone. Cases like this one should never be brought and should terrify everyone.

[@kmcd3020]

​@@aliciacarstensen7904anyone can get a degree these days without even going to college 😂

[@Brandibb]

You know what's worse than being a victim? Being the turd victim.

[@georgelopezlover0]

Lmfao

[@GamingIncMasterTroll]

U know what’s worse than being the turd victim? Being the turdy turd victim

[@sarahcatherinerabb]

i had to laugh hearing that but did not wanna comment on this... glad someone else did XD

[@retard_activated]

😂😂😂

[@notnorthkorea9306]

I am definitely not sus

[@leximari]

Idkkkk watched this whole thing and I can’t get past Joan. She sketches me tf out

[@kadyk4185]

Same. They're both so sketch, I wouldn't be surprised if they both had something to do with it and are just trying to pin it on each other.

[@melissaevans4396]

I think Joan had it done or hands on did it with help. She came through with her threats, but everyone wants to believe the man did it "lol because a woman obviously couldn’t do that! “ . She’s guilty!

[@erinntay]

Same…something is definitely wrong here

[@Chris-bo3ew]

Joan got away with murder

[@flamegent]

sameee

[@shawngood411]

for those who didn't follow that case ... the ex-wife bigamist had her own pretrial petition to the court to not have to appear. She stated she would be pleading the 5th to everything asked. The judge allowed her to not appear and squashed the subpoena. And that my 'hey yous!' is some guilt right there if you ask me

[@seafoambeachcomb]

Did NOT know that. Seems obvious to me she is slimy but... hopefully the appeal will reveal a bit more

[@7614Kids]

Thank you I was like why aren't we talking about the Joan person

[@stacysealemusicandgreenthu7078]

The convicted is innocent

[@thewavewitch3238]

Wholeheartedly agree! I think she set him up.

[@Tobynsocks]

I think it's interesting that husband is claiming there was a sexual Affair between his wife and the guy that ended up dead. This guy is a piece of crap because the only people who provide any evidence of his innocence are people that he paid like a private investigator. I can make it tape that says anything I want if the guy is not around to point out that it's all doctored.

[@annatanneberger1]

When I listen to these stories, I feel so grateful for my life. Humble as it is. These are all people whom I would envy: their lives, their families, their children, their nice houses, their prestigious jobs, their lovely neighbourhoods. But, hell, what a mess when you lift the lid!

[@jer8279]

I'm glad I'm a nobody.

[@markwebster5749]

Mike is one KZbinr I have never got bored with.Couldn’t imagine life without good old Mike 🤣🇬🇧🤝🇮🇪

[@leannabowers7534]

Ah, Mike is a fine lad.

[@wolf_cudi918]

God, continue to bless this amazing man. Truly one of the best to come out of the last couple years. Personally i have never tuned into someone faithfully who's not just a youtuber, but the kind of person that reminds me of the best souls & friends I've ever met here in Tulsa, OK. All good wholesome folk i tell ya!

[@___Lyric___]

There’s a LOT of reasonable doubt in this case. That’s just personally not enough evidence for me- and the evidence they had was really questionable. I’m not super convinced. I’m not saying he didn’t do it, I’m just saying I don’t think they had the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict him.

[@parsa8624]

When there is not "enough evidence" and an army in on the other side...

[@nolannolannolan]

That's the scary thing...juries are made up of normal everyday morons. Look at Rittenhouse...the most clear cut case of self defense you will ever see, and it's a coin toss if he will be imprisoned or not.

[@dwaynebruny]

@@nolannolannolan Wow, really. You believe it's a clear-cut case of self-defense Rittenhouse shot to death two unarmed individuals not threatening him with any bodily injury? Thank Christ you're not on his jury.

[@nolannolannolan]

@@dwaynebruny He tried to flee, they start beating his ass with a skateboard and trying to take his gun...fired just enough shots to escape and immediately waves down the cops. Don't let your politics cloud your judgement.

[@nolannolannolan]

@@dwaynebruny And the guy with the gun was unarmed? Lol.

[@kevinlaux6203]

"And a road that leads out of Pembroke, which is probably the biggest attraction in town."

[@dustyrustymusty3577]

Not sure what booming metropolis you live in Mike but lots of people prefer the quiet and usually uneventful life in a small town. These days it becomes more and more attractive all the time.

[@danieljacot8474]

Big cities are disgusting cesspools of filth, disease, crime and desperate losers living cramped like sardines in a can. No thanks Mike. I’m not a dirt bag with no self respect

[@Theamazingstickboy1]

Did he endorse metropolises with his statement somehow? Do you think the only options are tiny ass towns or New York City? Y'all are ridiculous.

[@carbine090909]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Ty-ek5rq]

@@dustyrustymusty3577 you don’t have much of a sense of humour do you it’s. Okay , you’re probably Christian and don’t have much of a chance going forward

[@AidenRKrone]

Usually after hearing or reading about a specific case, I can reach a conclusion as to the defendant's guilt or innocence. However, this is one of the few cases in which I can't reach a decision. Both the prosecution and the defense have good arguments and decent evidence. In my opinion, the prosecution didn't prove beyond a _reasonable doubt_ that he's guilty. If Kit Martin hasn't appealed yet, he absolutely should.

[@phyllisholt5005]

I agree completely. If |I'd been on the jury, it would have been a hung jury.

[@loknaz97]

That means he should be found innocent.

[@oxysz]

I’m not sure if he did it but it sorta sounds like maybe his ex hired someone . I mean leaving the dog tags there .. really?

[@Water-Proof]

Former Marine here, got out 34 years ago, 1987 and I still carry dog tags on my keys. So yeah, the last thing he would leave behind.

[@blazefairchild465]

Yes, The whole murder was messy, one dog tag ? 2 bodies burned ,why not all 3 ? I think she paid some young rookie killers & the was their first one. The wife was nasty , married to some one else. All the stuff she did setup setup setup.

[@Strongbad251]

And 5 months later “finding” a shell casing

[@ciararoots1609]

I thought that sounded very strange. Who would do that? He seems too smart to make a mistake like that. But there is other evidence that points to him. Glad I wasn't on that jury!! It must have been difficult for them to reach a verdict. Of course they heard hours and hours of testimony, so maybe it was clearer to them.

[@ciararoots1609]

@@blazefairchild465 You raised many of the questions I have.

[@yuibot5998]

No way he left his dogtags, and getting a shell casing from a person who likes to shoot as a hobby would be incredibly easy, and the fact that someone found it 5 months after entire teams searched the home multiple times is BS. It was the ex.

[@btrotter4775]

He is innocent!! I watched this entire trial on court tv and I am shocked that he was convicted.

[@cheeriosforhonkies8867]

100% innocent. His testimony was straight up truth. That jury was smoking crack. His crazy bitch ex did just what she said she would.

[@Johnny-Michael]

@@btrotter4775 America is the dumbest first world country. I am not surprised a bunch of mouth breathers in the back ass of Kentucky convicted him. I too think he is innocent and it is a shame to see.

[@johns1625]

I shoot with lots of people every week and I have a 50 gallon drum full of casings belonging to dozens of people. Most people who shoot pick up and store their cases. And "I'll just leave his dogtags there" seems like a surface level dumb ex wife idea to me. There's NO WAY he would have left them there. I feel so bad for him.

[@troyundroy1]

It’s a bit of a wild theory, but what if it was Kit who placed the shell and dog tags there 5 months later, in a bid to make it look like poorly planted evidence which then turns the spotlight back on Joan. Double Jeopardy if you will.

[@orpheustelos23]

"His tags were found at the scene" Yeah because when I go commit murder I make sure to bring something that could easily identify me.

[@cw2497]

Right? You might as well just leave your underwear there!

[@laurenleeonethree]

I mean, some people ARE that stupid 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@_liala]

That and why would you even take them off in the first place? You wear those like a necklace or not? Makes no sense at all

[@FabricateFrog]

@@laurenleeonethree yeah some people, not decorated military officers and army rangers. They dont let dumbasses become army rangers it takes years and very high academic scores. I mean guy was a pilot also, doubt hes that dumb to leave dog tags. Also Old retired military vets dont walk around with their dog tags on thats a young mans thing fresh off boot camp

[@sabrinajohnson9078]

maybe his ex took one of his dog tags that he gave to One of the children but it was just the dog tag so they used a string for the necklace part what soldier is walking around with their dog tags on a damn string 🧵

[@Xanoriz]

Watched A LOT of your videos by now and everytime I see the "suspect" I go "Yeah that fucker did it". This is one of those first I went "I don't think he did it" and when he was found guilty I was shocked. Hope he gets a new trial and we get some answers.

[@lizard0372]

Same!!!

[@Mario7p]

Yep, he wasn't lying, i believe him as well

[@FRLN500]

@@Mario7p But, he WAS lying. Remember when he said that he never left his house the night of the killings? His cell phone showed that he was actually at the area of the burned car containing 2 bodies. Do you still believe him?

[@Mario7p]

@@FRLN500 idk, those things can be falsified/planted. But he certainly didn't give me the impression of lying either during interrogation or in court, and it usually reeks when they do. If he is lying he must be one of the best persons at it in the whole world

[@VAPrepper757]

Same if his ex was banging the victim she could of been banging some other dude that killed him and setup the crime scene. Don't see an expert ranger like this leaving this sloppy a crime scene!

[@sherricarroll5036]

I can't believe that she wasn't a suspect. You would think if he was going to kill anyone it would have been her.

[@rowenareinertsen4749]

She has the police and fire Dept all on her side.

[@utubebgay]

i'm sure now he's thinking he should have, at least then he'd be in prison for a reason.

[@mrkennady]

@Administrator that’s not how cell phone triangulations work you buffoon. They don’t ping you to an exact location, they ping you to a square mile triangle that could be more than 100 miles. Especially in a rural area where they may only be a single cell tower per hundred miles.

[@Pataganja]

Am I missing something or did they not verify at all if Calvin was his defendant or his ex’s defendant?

[@crimetimeAU]

I agree. You can't find him guilty beyond resonable doubt in this case. If you could on bogus evidence and conjecture you shouldn't be on a jury.

[@domcagney2352]

Yea it's just odd. The shell casing found months later and his dog tags found at the scene? It really is pretty absurd... Mike said it, beyond a reasonable doubt? Absolutely not. Not from this point of view at least

[@michaelh3583]

Kit has a point. A recorded conversation with Calvin shows that Calvin was siding with him, that his ex had never confessed to any kind of abuse at all. So now Kit has this star witness proving the exact opposite of what his wife is saying, who could benefit him at trial, Why would he kill him? Also, if he so carefully planned these murders, Why would he wear his dog tags? They would instantly lead right back to him.

[@Laura-mg1vc]

As far as why would a certain thing be left behind it must’ve been planted we’re always semi variables that someone committing a murder doesn’t think through one lady left her bracelet underneath the victim, it just came off. I mean these things happen. so I don’t know if he’s guilty or not, but I know he could accidentally leave his dog tags there somehow

[@chaoswitch1974]

Calvin cannot attest to the validity of the tapes, whether those were the statements he made or the tapes were doctored, and whether or not that was even him. If you believe everything Christian says, I guess you would find him innocent. Calvin was actually going to be her witness, not his. Just because he said so doesn't make it true.

[@chaoswitch1974]

@@Laura-mg1vc He could have purposely left his dog tags there so that he could claim somebody tried to plant evidence. It's a ridiculous way for someone else to try to pin a crime on him when he was the only one with motive and opportunity. He knew he was going to be the #1 suspect.

[@stevepenn2582]

@@chaoswitch1974 the evidence that he did it doesnt make sense unless chapter left something out

[@anitarichardson2836]

@@chaoswitch1974 you mean like a double bluff kinda thing? Anything is possible I suppose, very strange case all round. Completely senseless and utterly bonkers.

[@michaelweary4662]

Calvin and I went through Army basic training together D-4-2. He was a great person and friend, and after a long time apart I found his email on the web, and dropped him a quick email… that was in late 2014 or early 2015. I got busy with life and went to look him up again last month (8/2023)… I was floored… and from what I know of the man back in 1983/1984… he was solid, loved his wife and new son (if I remember correctly about the birth) and would not have strayed from them… don’t believe what is said about him cheating on her. I got you bro… rest in peace my old friend. 😢 Essayons !

[@_s_4412]

There was reasonable doubt. He should have never been convicted.

[@guesswho4189]

Exactly, that alone should have set him free

[@Jenult]

For real, I'm not sure he didn't do it but I'm not sure he did either. This is a heartbreaking trial

[@flipnap2112]

@@Jenult in jury speak that means he is not guilty.

[@fiveninecummins7768]

Just a reminder, when he says "hey you," he's talking to me, specifically.

[@andreamarshall911]

I'll fight you for that as soon as I get someone to hold my earrings

[@raw.potato]

@@andreamarshall911 I got you girl, your earrings are safe with me 💪🏼💪🏼

[@michaelwhite2823]

Ask him to play Misty for you.

[@A6Legit]

Imma name my first born "You"

[@elenagordon7378]

LOL

[@TyGosketch]

If you've never wore dog tags, let me help you out... There is NO WAY you wouldn't miss them! The weight, the sound. You wouldn't just murder someone and not feel them being snatched off your neck or accidently "drop them". They don't exactly fall off quietly, and you don't notice. They are designed to be worn in war! What a set-up!

[@duke3187]

@@littlebear1771 where is the second dogtag then? they alway's come it two's

[@sgtimid2471]

Agreed. Plus He was a General. You don't exactly miss stuff like that.

[@alexandram1301]

What are you saying then?

[@Montina_Paullin]

Not to mention as soon as you join it is ingrained heavily in to you to not misplace them.. they are an extention of you.

[@meganmorgan8597]

Look i work in LTC facility for combat veterans on the locked dementia unit...a soldier will not forget/not notice/not feel them. We have had to get the Sherrif "off his ass" so he can get a residents tags out of his safe at 245 am. The sherrif is the facility "security" and he was at the front desk, bc of their uniforms we have had a lot of residents that do that. This resident was REFUSING to go to bed without them.

[@volumeguy886]

Interesting note: up until 2015, ID Tags (dog tags) had your ssn on them, and it was, from what I've heard from friends still on active duty at the time, a slow transition getting reassigned new ones with the new id number. I was very protective of my tags--kept them on the hanger for whatever uniform I'd be wearing the next day, and I sure as hell wouldn't accidentally leave them at a crime scene. They are on a long neck chain, supposed to be worn under the shirt, and it takes a very deliberate action to remove them. They were basically my ss card on my neck, and I treated them as such. "Finding" them at the crime scene, to me, is a red flag visible from space.

[@southbynortheast]

Shit, even in Navy boot we just get the key for our A Locker in our rack. we keep one key locked up in the office of our compartment and the other key stays around our necks. That's just a key for our little drawer. I cannot imagine an officer, or a ranger at that, having the wherewithal to misplace his entire identity. Especially an officer with 30 years. Shit was planted like a garden.

[@steveyv963]

@@southbynortheast Agree. Dog tags are kind of stuck under shirt. That makes no sense to take them off and leave them at a crime scene.

[@stevetrivago]

Thanks For your service and sacrifices ✊🏼🇺🇸

[@xKoreyx]

Ya that's what I was thinking... but then I need more explanation as to how someone else might have taken them from him without him noticing. Either someone got into his house and stole them, or he was wearing them at the crime scene that day.

[@glamdolly30]

Presumably you've never murdered three people then had to move bodies and clean up a crime scene against the clock. That's exactly the kind of unusual, high pressure, one-off situation in which a killer could do something dumb with his dog tags. The defence then twisted that balls-up by Martin, and used it to suggest he'd been framed by his ex wife. There's no way his petite ex killed three people (who were loyal friends of hers, btw), and then moved two corpses, and set fire to them inside a vehicle. She'd have needed help. It was Martin who hated those people for supporting his ex, and he was more than capable of the crime, moving the bodies etc. I believe his partner gave him a false alibi - and when they acrimoniously divorce, as they surely will (his relationships with women end badly), she may admit it! Police clearly found no evidence pointing to anyone else. Christian Martin's guilty AF - the victims were so afraid of him in the last weeks of their life after noticing him watching their house, that they got firearms training. He was a military man with a history of abuse - they were right to be scared. Their last moments alive as he confronted them with a gun in their home then murdered them, are horrific to contemplate. Glad their loved ones, who so bravely spoke out and pointed the finger at Martin, finally got justice for them.

[@tomaszkostyra7554]

Can't really tell if he is guilty or not, but this evidence is BS.

[@lindahackett4730]

Guilty!

[@savage101.]

@@lindahackett4730 NOT guilty. DNA/Fingerprints on a shell casing 5 months after the fact? Let's get real.

[@lindahackett4730]

@@savage101. In USA you can get a conviction in criminal court based on circumstantial evidence only! The casing was a critical piece of evidence but it wasn’t the whole case! There was substantial amount of credible circumstantial evidence presented in the trial! Cold cases are solved when critical evidence like bullets and casings are discovered years even decades after the crime! One that comes to mind a casing was found 15 years after the crime by using a metal detector in the yard of the murder scene the people living at the address at the time of the murder no longer lived at that address hadn’t for sometime the casing was turned over to the DA they look at all the evidence in the case decided to charge the original suspect took it to a jury trial the defendant was convicted of murder… Everything credible in this case points to one person Christian Martin! His motive to rendered Calvin Phillip’s unavailable to testify was powerful circumstantial evidence in this case too…The Army Major prosecuting the Court Martial testified in this trial he said under oath “ Without Calvin Phillip’s there was no Court Martial” I watched the entire 3 week trial… I don’t have time to touch on all the circumstantial evidence that points to Martin’s guilt or touch on all the false narratives twisted lies fabricated by Martin that didn’t hold up holes were poked in them during the trial revealed deception on Martin part….No doubt by the close of the trial Mr Martin had lost all credibility with the Jurors! Not a doubt in my mind the jury got it Right… An innocent man wasn’t wrongly convicted a guilty man that set out to eliminate a threat (Calvin) and wound up slaughtering 3 innocent people in cold blood was convicted…. Took 6 long years for the family members to get justice for the innocent victims!

[@charlie.patton]

@@lindahackett4730 , seriously come on now, there was more than enough room for reasonable doubt and to be blind to that is why there are innocent people in jail today. Here’s an example of beyond a reasonable doubt…My dad was on jury for a trial in Wisconsin for a man contesting a DUI. He had been found on the interstate in the back seat of his car sleeping with the keys in the ignition but not turned on. Now, us cheeseheads love our alcohol, so when it was time to deliberate it was almost like all the jurors threw common sense out the window and thought him innocent because “he basically did the right thing” “I’d hate it if I got a DUI because I’ve driven drunk before”… and, as his lawyer argued, “that because the key wasn’t turned, the car wasn’t on, so BAM no drunk driving.” My dad then asked all the jurors how it was possible for him to fall asleep in the backseat of his car and wind up on the shoulder of the interstate after leaving the bar? No one was with him - so did his car just teleport there? Did the car just magically drive there? No he’d had to of driven himself there before deciding to take a snooze, thus the car had to have been turned on (and as he said no one was with him in the car during the trial) that the only one that could have drove him there was himself. After my dad pointed this out to the other jurors and reminded them they are to judge based on evidence and not feelings, he was convicted. After his conviction it was made public that he’d had prior DUI’s, 2 convictions and 3 dismissals, but those were withheld from evidence as it may have swayed the jurors to convict. So this was technically his 5th DUI, but 3 of them had been dismissed because the jury had found him not guilty (probably out of “compassion”). For that drunk driver there was no reasonable doubt, and in the end his conviction probably saved someone from being pancaked as he was a habitual drunk driver …but for this other case, you can not say without a reasonable doubt that he did it. My husband was enlisted in the USMC and I can tell you that the only time he wore his dog tags was on deployment. Now I guess this guy could have been moto as hell and wore his tags all the time, but I’m guessing not. My husband also had two sets, one for his seabag and one for on his person, which maybe the army doesn’t do that IDK. The shell casing that was at residence could have been placed there by another wanting to frame someone else, not saying that it was but three people had access to that property during the time of the murders - his girlfriend, his ex wife, and him. And after the fact his in-laws, extended family, etc. The case that you mention doesn’t hold water here…. There’s not a random family with no connection residing at the house of a murder scene or murder’s some 15 years later. Let’s be honest, there was motive (to a point) for all parties to kill these folks … heck, let’s consider the girlfriend for a second 🤷‍♀️ She could have been wearing his tags, snuck out thinking this would help her new boyfriend, dropped his tags during the scuffle, been seen and killed those other folks, snuck back home just in time to convince her man she’d been dropping a duce and shaving her legs and bitties. Then later somehow accidentally dropped that casing out of an overnight bag. Of course this all sounds ludicrous, but so does him being convicted of murder with basically the same evidence. Do I think the wife’s involved… I don’t know… Do I think the husband was involved.. I don’t know… his girlfriend, extended family, etc, … I don’t know. They all had motive, all of them. And come on, he still got sh*t canned with or without Calvin’s testimony. For me personally, I believe his ex wife had way more to loose had Calvin been present. But that’s just me… regardless, this was NOT an open and shut case because there WAS a smoking gun and house with MANY people who’d had access to it.

[@joeottsoulbikes415]

You would never loose your dog tags at a crime scene unless you were in uniform when committing the crime. No one wear them out of uniform..

[@SC.......]

This case terrifies me. Just wow. How is he found guilty. ? One thing that I noticed was left out. Joan actually had the victims cellphone and took it to the store and tried to get it unlocked. Hmmm. 🤔

[@ArtbyAJ2120]

wtf?? How was that left out. That shows guilt imo. Crazy! I'm from Lex KY and I remember watching this case.

[@deplorabledaniel6541]

@Ghost Wolf you are 100% right women are treated like children and when they are held accountable they get a slap on the wrist

[@lizdoodles9128]

Whaaa

[@kilroy1964]

@@lizdoodles9128 Acceptable, as long as you have the same response to women's complaints about sexism.

[@hcktylr1]

Yeah there was reasonable doubt for sure. I dont think he did it at all. I feel like jurors and peoplw in general are less caring and sensitive these days. If i were on that jury there's no fn way i could vote guilty and i dont see how they all did. Are they still telling jurors all they need is one little bit of reasonable doubt? It seems they arent. It's absolutely ridiculous!

[@pakde8002]

Some day I'm going to be all caught up with all the back episodes and will be limited to only new episodes once a week. Not sure how I'm going to handle that.

[@CeeBee3ThatBoy]

That happened to me with Mr Ballen and thats how I found this channel 😪

[@ticktick6585]

Mike- the only guy who can run a crime show that still feels "light". I can get my crime fix without feeling dark and depressed after. Love your channel!

[@Vkt1959]

Yes!!!!

[@Itsrackss]

So true

[@VanMoona]

Yes! 👍💕

[@baz9887]

Couldn’t agree more 👍

[@DeRock401]

So true. Many other channels feel like you’re being lectured. No charisma. No personality.

[@MissJellybean]

I don’t think he did it. He would have picked up his brass and never left his dog tags. what about chain of custody with the shell casing? Do they have that bad of investigators that would leave something like that around? On top of that he is on camera when the car fire was started. I hope justice will finally be served in this case at some point. It’s a really shoddy investigation and prosecutors who had to clean up a triple murder. They didn’t care who they prosecuted as long as they prosecuted someone.

[@IamBATMAN2024]

I agree but what I don’t understand is that he didn’t look bothered when he was in court being told he is guilty. If you’re innocent you’re gonna be really pissed aren’t you!?

[@peterpike]

@@IamBATMAN2024 -- If you're innocent and just spent the last 4 years watching your name get smeared through the media while you lost everything that ever mattered to you already, a court ruling might no longer really make that much of a difference.

[@olivierm2888]

@@IamBATMAN2024 Actually people show and express emotion differently. His eyes were a window to his soul, they were bloodshot and his expression showed misery. He's just keeping his composure.

[@VioletJoy]

@@IamBATMAN2024 Rewatch it. You'll see initial shock and then his head sank, which is different than what we've seen from psychopaths.

[@hijeans1103]

Never ever underestimate the power of incompetence. Take your pick: incompetent killer leaves dog tags or incompetent police miss a piece of evidence

[@aaronmendez9332]

I don't think he did it. The evidence is lousy. That wouldn't make me think he's guilty, but rather feel like there's more to this than what it might seem

[@kgreene460]

But I don't see how Joan could've gotten the bodies into the car without assistance. I think the jury did the best they could, but that "evidence" does seem planted. I am very confused by this case!

[@lovepet4565]

He did it. And is in Prison . For life And that is that.

[@Hankblue]

@@kgreene460 She might have gotten someone else to do it 🤔 I really don't know, would hate to be that jury.

[@kgreene460]

@@Hankblue But then why would they not just move all three bodies to the car? None of this makes any sense to me, such a strange case, but Mike made it SUPER entertaining, of that I am certain!

[@chass9962]

Absolutely

[@dennisf1148]

For someone who is in the Army myself. My dog tags sit in a drawer at home 24/7 until I go to a school and have to present them.. let alone take them with me to a crime 🤦‍♂️ i strongly think he was framed and I get exactly where he’s coming from on everything from a military aspect. I see the dependa committing this crime and framing her husband out of spite. They need to look back into Ms “I’ll ruin you if you divorce me”

[@lisasmith8630]

Yep! He probably didn't even realize they were missing until they were "found".

[@Trashiestpanda42069]

I don't even know where mine are. Anyone could easily plant my tags somewhere, and I wouldn't even realize it.

[@Matilda-y]

@@Trashiestpanda42069 did watching this make you go look?

[@Trashiestpanda42069]

@@Matilda-y no lol, they're in a box somewhere

[@bgauthier192]

​@@Trashiestpanda42069Thank you, I just read another comment someone said that no one in the military ever takes off their dog tags for any reason haha. The only people I know that wore their dog tags constantly were kids out of boot camp for about 3 months.

[@courtneymessick289]

Someone needs to contact the INNOCENCE PROJECT for this man!!!

[@joannewalsh7498]

They usually only take DNA cases , plus he's got exhaust all his appeals

[@kimmyfreak200]

@@joannewalsh7498 well maybe they missed evidence that points to joan or another person...

[@hoebywan]

Nah, he's guilty but also has terrible taste in women. It happens.

[@joannewalsh7498]

kimmyfreak200 As long as it was not available at trial and actually new evidence . His hope now is getting it overturned for a legal error, or ineffective counsel.

[@joannewalsh7498]

kimmyfreak200 A lot points to Joan . Her new boyfriends brother is law enforcement. He also has ties with the prosecutor . He's friends with her on Facebook. There's a Facebook group about this case . I'm no longer in it because the people in there are a little much.

[@kat0726]

Something shady about this whole case. I'm not saying he's a good guy, but my gut tells me his ex is behind this and set him up. 🤷‍♀️🤔

[@mnmrmai8299]

I watched this live on court TV and I honestly was shocked he was found guilty!!! I don't think he did it! And the fact that Joan didn't have to testify or be cross examined or even show up is suspect as heck for me.

[@MissQue715]

She plead the 5th meaning she feared that she could be incriminated in a crime if she or her son testified. I wonder which crimes she would be incriminated in.

[@thecaptainsnark]

@@MissQue715 "i never imagined anything like this would happen to me" the minute she opened her mouth on the stand she would have hung herself

[@dontmindme633]

Did they even investigate her? No mention was made of her movements at the time of the murders. They had ample reason to investigate her.

[@IzzyMariel]

@@dontmindme633 yes. They said during the trial she was investigated

[@amazingsupergirl7125]

Well if they forced her to testify she would reply with the same thing for every question. “ I want to exercise my fifth amendment right on the account that it might incriminate me.”

[@BiggestRedditor]

This is a sad one. The prosecutors didn’t even try and prove his alibi was lying. That’s crazy. There’s enough questions left unanswered that it’s not close to unreasonable doubt. There’s so many different avenues for someone else to have done it that the prosecutors didn’t even bother closing up

[@toblexson5020]

If that was actually the only evidence they had against him how the hell did the court not have reasonable doubt? Both pieces had an unreliable chain of custody, possibly being handed in by the actual murderer. Something went seriously wrong in that courtroom, because with evidence like that, we all could be found guilty of whatever crime someone wants to accuse us of.

[@mrhead6856]

That's what's scary I hope appeals fix it but hid life is ruined

[@PKay5208]

Agreed! This is something rotten about this case and conviction ☹️

[@dantegood2195]

@Omniscient_ Turnip - how do you explain the cell phone records?

[@sassycat6468]

Ikr but also possibly have been planted by old Kit too 😵

[@barclanbalegrion6731]

@@dantegood2195 the cell phone records that show him on the same street his house is on?

[@jeannievail]

Spent my morning drive to work, crying over the inevitable demise of my 18 year relationship. Who would have thought that seeing a new episode of That Chapter could cheer me up and be the highlight of my day? Thanks for the witty banter. "...and a road that leads out of Pembroke, which is probably the biggest attraction in town." You crack me up.

[@Linkurz]

Hope you’re doing okay

[@bigsteve6729]

Everything is temporary Jean, nothing lasts forever. The only thing you can rely on is the impermanence of life. You'll be alright.

[@kariminalminds]

Lots of hugs 💕 Breakups are tough, but you’ll get through this somehow.

[@tommyegirl]

Stay strong Jean! Better days are ahead of you.

[@angelapyle7301]

Something need to fall apart , so that new things can be built💕 stay strong 💪 U got this!

[@nickfilms8828]

He should file an appeal if he hasn’t already. Not saying I’m convinced he’s innocent but I think there’s a very reasonable doubt in the case

[@lenn741]

I agree. The American justice system really confuses me sometimes. "Proven guilty" right? Where is the proof in this case. Not saying he didn't do it, but we all know how evil a scorned woman can be (no offence). I actually found myself feeling sorry for this guy at the end there.

[@urbantree309]

It's the only one of Mike's episodes I've watched (and I've watched 'em all) where I've had more than reasonable doubt. The guy is a bit odd, but that evidence is ridiculous and he does seem plausible. She, on the other hand, had hustler written all over her.

[@muaamalal-aboody4046]

The evidence seems to be pointing towards his ex-wife more than him and the Jury found him guilty? Its absurd, video evidence shows he was still at home with an eye witness that is his girlfriend that was never (as far as the video shows) interviewed, his first ex-wife supporting him claiming he was NOT an abusive man, and fucking dog tags???? This guy was in the fucking military if he wanted to commit murder and hide it that shit would be easy for him to hide, Joan should have been a person of extreme interest as a suspect

[@lenn741]

@@muaamalal-aboody4046 Yep, makes you wonder how many innocent people are in jail, and how many guilty people are free. That jury should be in jail.

[@metalmarty3948]

I agree with you as well. How do police do a thorough search and then a shell casing is found five months later? And why would he be wearing his tags at the house? I'm not saying he's innocent either, but those two pieces of evidence could easily be reasonable doubt.

[@NottyAries]

This case has ALWAYS bothered me. I feel strongly that the jury got it wrong.

[@jefff3023]

What else do you expect from trusting ones life to a group of random idiots picked out of a big pool of idiots

[@HolyMeauxly]

I sort of agree with you. The only thing I also think about is how would a woman move two bodies. But I agree this one sits weird with me

[@mackesaulice]

Why would woman want no divorce so she can be with Martin but also at the same time framing him for prison time? He killed those people.

[@DemocracyOfficer2485]

@@mackesaulicedid you look at the “evidence”? What convicted him magically appeared later. This trial was shit

[@nickprice7752]

I'm a kentucky native and I agree 100% I'm not being sexist here but in court the woman always beats the man that's just the way it is. She told him she would ruin his life and she did. I hope and pray that she meets the same demise that those 3 neighbors did. And no I'm not sorry for that

[@Nikonik66]

First episode where I thought the subject was guilty at the beginning and totally thought he was innocent at the end. No wonder Joan didn't want her location revealed. She's in hiding knowing she got away with this. At lease she didn't get his military settlement. I hope he can appeal.

[@MsSonali1980]

Same. People in the comments say, that she and her son pleaded the Fifth and the jury wasn't allowed to know that they did. I don't know if he did it or not, but he looked done with life when the verdict was read out. And that what the kids of the victims told, could have been bias because Joan was talking so much shit and lies about him. I didn't like that he talked badly about the husband victim but on the other hand I would like to know if it is the truth. That murder seems very chaotic. Police also don't know who was killed first, because two of the victims are burnt. If Joan really had an affair with him, it would make sense for her, to get rid of him. Because Christian could ask about the affair in court, and further destroy her reputation. If she is responsible for the murders, she hired someone (telling them they get the cut of the money she is about to earn from the military) and they messed it up. If it is like that, then lol, she will be afraid for her life for the rest of her life. Either that the hired killers get her for not paying or that Christina gets her for destroying his life.

[@brocky78]

same here !

[@lvigilful]

Wait! How is he found guilty!? I’m so confused. This one feels wrong.

[@raycharles2284]

He's ex Joan is suspect for me.

[@elenahale1922]

I love mike. How tastefully he tells the stories, how much respect and pain he feels for the victims and even down to naming his videos after the victims. He’s the perfect person to do this and I can’t express enough the importance of his channel

[@JudgeMentall]

Hop off the dudes johnson bro.

[@tdhills]

@@JudgeMentall Somehow the "haha" was lost on me. She's a female so she's perfectly fine with being on his "Johnson", Bro. Doggone shame people can't even give someone a compliment without one of these millennials coming out of the woodworks with their "bro" and "dude" insults.

[@veracastelino1423]

Ohhh I so agree. Mikey mike is the bestest

[@SUPERSPAZD]

@@JudgeMentall jealous, bro?!? 😂

[@tlp6815]

Literally had 7 recommended videos on a row on a video I was watching, I think it’s a sign…… to stop watching bad videos, this guy is awesome

[@ntepup77]

i have followed him for several months. I am still binging all of his videos. So many i have never heard of and the ones i have...he has a different spin on that i haven't seen before. He cracks me up in every video. Loves him to pieces!

[@tlp6815]

@@ntepup77 it’s amazing because his followers are so wholesome and kind(totally not what you’d expect with regards to the comments) the whole community is amazing I’d say, and the content is top tier, he needs his own tv show I swear

[@sarahdee7776]

How did they possibly find him guilty? How is there no reasonable doubt? I know this is just a snapshot of the entire case, but something seems off!

[@justinhoward6755]

Same, I don't think they could convict here. No way he'd leave dog tags behind. That's lunacy.

[@ladylyrichere9373]

after looking at the whole story, I can see he is guilty

[@Usernameunknown129]

@@ladylyrichere9373 he’s literally innocent there’s no way

[@alicebarclay]

@@ladylyrichere9373 Please explain what the "whole case" is. What do you know that we don't?

[@PlaguedByEarth]

@@ladylyrichere9373 You keep showing up and saying that for no reason throughout the comments. Are you his ex-wife, the woman who actually committed those murders?

[@stacey8569]

Just how…. Not saying he didn’t do it, but there’s definitely enough reasonable doubt there for the verdict to be questionable. Meanwhile Casey Anthony is still out bouncing around like the ballon she is…. Just how?

[@wmurch3]

juries are easy to game and make decisions on hunches and feelings. juror intimidation happens too

[@fakeprofile9502]

It's the privilege of being a man now days.

[@gazXspace]

@@fakeprofile9502 Dont be a T W A T

[@basedpatriot4982]

It’s called law-enforcement. They decide from the very beginning who they think needs to go down and then they work on making evidence fit their narrative. The prosecutor is in on it and they can make it happen.

[@dylanhohn3713]

Welcome to men's rights. Semantics games are fun. This is the justice gap, women are 60% less likely to get arrested, charged, convicted as a man for the exact same crime and circumstances. As well as recurve 40% less when it comes to sentencing, if they ever make it to that point

[@SketchyCharactersAndCrime]

My dog is really sick in hospital and I am upset and scared and worried. Could really use a distraction. Thanks for the video Mike.

[@conditionallyunconditional5691]

I hope your dog improves enough to go back home soon. 🙏 🐕

[@WyattRyeSway]

Hope your dog turns out ok.

[@SketchyCharactersAndCrime]

Thank you for your well wishes. He means so much to me and even the thought of losing him is devastating. I appreciate the comfort and kindness.

[@BrownEyedGirl1367]

❤️🐶❤️

[@bjbrown]

Ohhh Sketchy, I hope your pup will be okay and comes home soon. Trust that your fur baby is in good hands and I will keep you in my prayers. Take care of you and your family and let us know what happens, please?

[@amandastakeonit7402]

I have heard this one more than enough times and don't think any of the people are upstanding citizens, but I listened again, because it was you Mike! That's a compliment!

[@christophermxyzptlk7155]

People are actually correcting his pronunciation of Louisville after years of hearing him say turdy tree? OK.

[@katybug6572]

Ikr? Lol

[@nolly8202]

lol so true!

[@lucialuz777]

🤣

[@HighlandBound]

To be fair, turdy tree is how they say it in Ireland, Lu-a-vul is how they say it in Kentucky

[@ceekay7021]

loool, best comment ever!

[@scottmartin8888]

The last scene of him being sentenced does not look like a guilty man. I know this is subjective, but this case doesn't make any sense to me. At. All.

[@nhill1829]

Yea he looks defeated. Poor man.

[@marissa6537]

I agree He looks devastated

[@brianslater8066]

The music playing during that part of the video “Beer I Love You” really adds to the feels

[@rexremedy1733]

The problem is that neither his guilt nor his innocence could be established without any reasonable doubt. It seems people tend to disregard this basic premise.

[@missym7245]

The dog tags got me. That's one thing you must remove, they can't be accidentally dropped. Why leave a calling card? He looked innocent and genuine, nothing fishy about him, poor man. It's good to see others got that too. He has a chance with an appeal I hope.

[@icancu9125]

Another documentary on this case showed the dog tag had the name "MARTIN, KIT" inscribed on it. Kit stated this shows it was a fake one left at the scene, as his official dog tag has his proper name "MARTIN, CHRISTIAN R" inscribed, not his nickname. I don't know much about the military, but it seems legit that the army would not use nicknames on dog tags. Joan seems like the type who probably wouldn't think that part through and would get fake tags made as "KIT" (as she knew him) to try to frame him. Either way, there's way too much reasonable doubt in this case.

[@militarymisfit]

The Army doesn't use nicknames on dogtags, officially. But a lot of soldiers go off post and get several sets. You can literally put whatever you'd like on them. We have guys that put "Jedi" in the religion field.

[@audreymuzingo933]

@@militarymisfit Ha! I kinda love that.

[@ahoweO7]

Correct! The dog tags must match your ID card which is your legal name.

[@CoExist64]

You may be able to make up ones that aren’t official, but while you’re in the service you certainly do not wear them-in uniform or out! Must match your legal name…

[@allisdust9]

@@militarymisfit To be fair, Jedi is a recognized religion within the military. Didn't stop me from putting Mandalorian on mine lol

[@kimwhitley2126]

You are the BEST at telling stories! Thank you

[@SC0073R]

Mike, your charisma is incredible, and the jokes in between certainly help. Keep being you, man! Haven’t watched the video yet, but looks enticing. Thanks for brighting up my Tuesday!

[@ThatChapter]

Thank you so much John!

[@nicoledoubleyou]

@@ThatChapter this guy is right, you're great, my favorite true crime videos cuz the stories are told so well. I understand everything perfectly and your jokes are perfect and perfectly timed. The only way you could improve is to make a little longer of videos. But things are great the way they are!

[@PanzerdivisionWiking]

That’s a really good comment man, it sums up my feelings on these videos too!

[@SupernaturalBeingsofEarth]

@@ThatChapter This Guy is Really Really Right. 🇨🇦

[@jamesaftvbrother5285]

Mike I don’t watch the British ones as it’s too close to home but I can watch Canadian and American ones 😂

[@ChristinaTodd1970]

None of this case makes sense and I can’t believe he was convicted. I hope he can get out on appeal because I think they’ve jailed an innocent man.

[@lovepet4565]

Rarely does this work unless there is new evidence of someone else Or major constitutional errors in trial If he was DP There would be more appeals With Life in Prison Only one appeal

[@lovepet4565]

And all 3 victims stated their fear of being killed by KM Not joan? I can really see her killing 3 people not the trained killer

[@barbaraseymour3437]

@@lovepet4565 m She had a grown up son. She used to go to target practice. She was a hateful person. Concealed she was already married. Told Kit her ‘former’ husband had been beheaded in a logging accident. Watch the case on Court tv, Live. It’s a much fuller version which Mike doesn’t include in his condensed version.

[@barbaraseymour3437]

@Omniscient_ Turnip Better for a guilty person to go free (unless a serial killer) than an innocent one convicted and sentenced.

[@lindsaygrace460]

What are the fans called for that chapter? can they be called “heyyous” ?

[@PanicattheDiscourse]

We're the forest. Full of trees.

[@kathrynhamblin6479]

Goo goo dolls

[@Aaron_Hanson]

Legends 😂 we are simply legends 🇦🇺

[@TheCrypticSyx]

@@PanicattheDiscourse LMAOOOOOO

[@johnqpublic2718]

I second “Goo Goo Dolls”

[@jsu9575m]

Its possible he's guilty but the idea that he was proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is absurd.

[@abbyreed9326]

I watched this whole trial and I’m still confused by the verdict

[@Scorch428]

His ex set him up. I mean his dog tags at the scene, thats hilarious.

[@agentorange81]

That's my home state for you, I've seen people get life on here say alone and those guilty as sin walk free

[@dirtlevel]

Check out the jail interview he did for court tv and you may change your mind. He comes off guilty to me.

[@dirtlevel]

Idk I’m on the fence with this one

[@ImoniFatty]

I’m leaning towards him being innocent

[@Density96]

oh man I'm so deep into that case right now! His lawyer is also my boyfriend's lawyer and I watched the trial and seriously - whether he has done it or not - it's absolutley ridiculous that he got sentenced, there's no real evidence but SO MUCH reasonable doubt! I hope he will get out...

[@andreamarshall911]

Yeah I was pretty mad at the verdict myself. It's circumstantial at best and I believe his wife set him up. One of the victims set to testify in the military case was set to testify FOR him.

[@Adrian-zd4cs]

Now I'm invested. Something is very off about it... Explain to me how he was smart enough to leave no DNA but dumb enough to leave a shell casing and his dog tags... This case smells rotten!

[@michaelmcgee2026]

Thats the south for ya

[@bmused55]

So wait, he is supposedly smart enough to not leave any DNA, blood or fibre traces or any sign he was at the crime scene. Thorough searches find NOTHING. But somehow he leaves his dog tags. Which are not found by the police at the time, but 5 months later by relatives of the victims. No questions asked? Absolutely no concern given to the fact that all manner of person could have accessed the house in those 5 months? And that is the evidence used to convict him? I smell bullshit

[@MortgageGirl7]

I really hope he wins his appeal! I was stunned! I would love the behavioral analysts to give their input. Because I don’t see any deception!!!

[@clairesutherland4868]

For a so called organiser to leave his tags at a crime scene is a very big mistake and I doubt anyone thinking of committing a crime would even wear the tags so something like this could happen, defo not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt

[@deanlockyer2981]

The reason most people are convicted is because they are too incompetent to carry out the perfect crime. In other words most criminals are not that clever. They make mistakes that's why they get caught.

[@timsawyer9231]

This got me thinking, and it's kind of terrifying... It wouldn't be hard to get someone else on the hook for a crime if you have access to their cellphone... Just grab it and take it with you while you're on your rampage, then return it when you're done... Seems like courts and jury's automatically believe if your cellphone was there, so where you! Like it's part of our body... Scary to think about.

[@michellemcmahon3344]

Tim Sawyer, No shit dude!! I never even thought of that possibility. That's CRAZY Scary to think about.

[@nickprice7752]

Especially when it's a woman against a man

[@CowboyredPedro]

I really don’t know about this case. I wouldn’t be surprised if Joan actually killed them and Kit was the one who got blamed for it. Why would he wear his dog tags to the murder, and then leave them there?

[@peterjongsma2779]

Good question. Too obvious. Not very likely.

[@jaykenyon1]

You don't take dog tags off

[@PutinsMommyNeverHuggedHim]

@@jaykenyon1 plus I feel like their chain would be really hard to even accidentally break off. Aren’t they supposed to be durable enough to stay on during war and battle, otherwise what’s the point…

[@robinstewart6510]

​@@PutinsMommyNeverHuggedHim .. The chain for the dog tags wasn't broken. They claimed he took the dog tags off at the crime scene and left them there, which is, at best, pure speculation. The defense argued the dog tags were planted. I believe the jury's verdict falls within the bigotry many have towards military personnel. Soldiers are killers, so he obviously killed them.

[@PutinsMommyNeverHuggedHim]

@@robinstewart6510 if Kit actually took them off on purpose like the prosecutors claim, then he might as well should’ve pleaded insanity, cause that’s… well, crazy. And with all due respect, I 100% disagree with this bias against military personnel. America is a country of Patriotism (good in normal doses, but bad when taken to the extremes) and worships/loves our military. Look at all the Hollywood movies about WW2 and our top snipe rs and Omaha Beach and Vietnam and Bin Laden’s capture. We admire our troops, we ALWAYS say “thank you for your service!” Our military is consistently, and I mean for DECADES, voted by Americans as THE most trusted institution in America, above journalists and media and even above our government. I think 90% of polled citizens answered that they trust our military the most in 2020 (last year). We have tons of holidays dedicated to our brave veterans and cemeteries, as well. It’s not our heroic troops and soldiers people distrust, it’s the *top brass,* the ones politicking in Pentagon and rubbing shoulders with Dick Cheney and getting away with insane infractions while the lower ranks are dismissed over TINY DETAILS!!! And don’t get me started on the Navy’s bureaucracy, those top brass skunks need to reinstate Captain Brett Crozier to his ship!!!!!!!

[@danielwggudan2]

Reasonable doubt is just utterly disregarded in this modern court system.

[@KingofHearts]

Don’t be tricked by his superficial charm. He did it. His military experience taught him what he needed to do to cover a murder. That woman is incapable of carry two dead bodies into a car.

[@deg6788]

I can see in his eyes that he is innocent... Amen

[@criticalthinker8953]

@@deg6788 see it in his eyes? Lol are you for real?

[@cicada38]

I believe that he is innocent...

[@deg6788]

@@criticalthinker8953 yes you can tell when people try to hide stuff and they all fail the test.... He didn't fail

[@davidmayberry3190]

This is one of those weird cases where I wouldn't be suprised if he was guilty, but that being said there doesn't seem to be enough for a conviction, and I completely believe someone did plant the casing and dog tags. Weird one.

[@tonyl6520]

police need to get an arrest for triple homicide.

[@gemmahibbett9152]

I literally cant listen to anyone else telling crime stories. After watching Mike, no one else comes close. Was born to do this!

[@thomasmackelly7685]

A shell casing found 5 months after by joan’s relatives? That was allowed as evidence?

[@PsychoMike21000]

Hopefully, that becomes grounds for an appeal. The sad truth is that families, friends, and communities feel a compulsion to hold SOMEBODY accountable and are willing to overlook reasonable (blatant in this case) doubtful their own fragile closet or peace of mind.

[@Cheyne_TetraMFG]

It wasn’t Joan’s relative, it was Calvin’s sister (one of the victims).

[@pink_sock]

He said he didn't do it so.... Clearly innocent.

[@TheBanned0ne]

@@pink_sock No direct evidence putting him there. Only evidence is the stuff you see in comedy movies. "Oh look, the villain conveniently left a note (dogtags) saying he did it". "Oh look, we found a picture of the murder weapon 5 months after the fact, totally can't be fabricated" "Oh he used weapons from his house? No one else could have possibly used those!" "Wife angry at him, having an affair" "One of the deceased was going to do something in BENEFIT of the villain? Makes a lot of sense the villain would want that guy dead then... right?"

[@pink_sock]

@@TheBanned0ne I'm sorry I can't read dude. I'm gonna guess you said "Dang pink, never thought of it like that before. I guess dude really is a sussy baka." Preciate it, homie.

[@christydavis7732]

I’m not convinced he did it. Not at all.

[@colleenlally-ross7105]

Me either and I watched the friggin trial!😳

[@melantus]

Agreed, if this was the evidence and the motive how could anyone say beyond a reasonable doubt that it was him. It very well could have been his ex wife. Was shocked he was convicted on such weak evidence.

[@bettiesnyder8393]

I don’t think he did either. That poor guy got totally hosed.

[@momof3m965]

Too much reasonable doubt

[@jesmei6920]

Me either

[@noemisharma3143]

I honestly feel the wrong person was convicted. The "ex-wife" needs to be investigated.

[@oliveryt7168]

"feel"

[@bigrooster6893]

I believe he was wrongly prosecuted.

[@ceruleanc505]

That photo of "bruises" looks like makeup , lipstick et al

[@zencooking6983]

He will win a new trial on appeal. There is NO WAY he got a fair trial without the jury knowing she would take the 5th if called to testify.

[@sarahemily597]

@@zencooking6983 - agree with you. I have a huge problem with the jury not being told that vital information during the trial!

[@Monika-bc3dq]

I genuinely think she got away with a triple murder and got everything she wanted - revenge, freedom and complete lack of his existence in their kids' lives. Those jurors had to be coocoo if they thought this was anything close to being proven beyond reasonable doubt. Good luck to anyone ever accused of anything, because you never know when you'll go down for sth you didn't do.

[@Crockadillion42o]

Couldn't agree more. Those were my exact thoughts watching this now 7 months later. I actually felt bad for him when they read the verdict. I was certain they'd find him innocent.

[@shoob7979]

She sure did get away with the murders!! Well for the time being at least cuz she may be someone in denial about God being actually real and and his judgement won't be something that can be ignored or lie to get it in any specific outcome. That's the reason so many so called atheist

[@JeffreyBenzodiazepines]

@@shoob7979Take your medication

[@melindawallin3713]

I say if you are ever faced with a trial ask for a judge, not a jury......

[@nickprice7752]

You're absolutely right... it blows my mind that they found him guilty. What kind of looney toon mfs do we have making these decisions? It's scary to think that you can spend the rest of your life in prison and never commit a crime. All it takes is someone to say otherwise

[@mycahimel9007]

Every Tuesday and Friday are always good days because of the awesome info you spew out! Thank you Mike

[@ThatChapter]

Hope you enjoy!

[@peepgames4985]

I love this man"i don't give a sh$*% how its supposed to be pronounced "

[@connieyoung7554]

I didn’t know I could love this guy any more until he said that 😂

[@darrickwhite6661]

Anybody who pronounces third as turd can kiss my bluegrass arse!

[@lowkeyIbes]

@David Detrana He doesnt give a shit.

[@evonneacevedo6578]

Wait, there was nothing Calvin’s and Pam’s kids had to offer in that “no longer silent” interview besides recalling that their mom said she saw Kit “walking and watching”? Neighbors do that, bro!

[@rima9485]

Right!! I was waiting for something😂

[@Jiggyjiggy123]

I always watch until the very end because it makes my heart respond when you say, "Cuz I love you." So disappointed at the end of this story. But, I still love you.

[@roaddog9783]

You’re always so nice and respectful, so I really appreciate the “I don’t give a shit how it’s pronounced” lol

[@Uptomyknees]

I literally don't understand the guilty verdict. The compulsively lying bigamist ex who falsely accused him of rape and who desperately needed one of the victims out of the way seems like a more likely suspect? She actually kind of fits the exact profile of several of the killers you've profiled on here, down to the attempt to frame someone else, except this time, it worked.

[@newvocabulary]

Don't you get it. He's a white male. He doesn't get a fair trial.

[@lostevesy]

Me too, certainly wasn't "beyond any reasonable doubt" also was found guilty of every single charge, usually with so many doubts there would at least be a lighter charge or not guilty of everything.

[@Uptomyknees]

@@newvocabulary that doesn't hold up to actual conviction rates when you bring race into it but sure if that's where your head is at

[@Jamiet-lk8xq]

Yeah… she’s the kind that convinces her boyfriend or some teenage boy to kill for her.

[@jerryflynn1766]

Surprised Mike omitted the fact that the ex wife plead the fifth, and the judge wouldn't allow the jury to know .

[@mikeeckhoff20]

Ha ha Michael, I don't give a shit either, how Louisville is pronounced. Kentucky is shithole state.

[@frankg3rd1]

The jury was also unaware of the 5th amendment plea. Thats a huge piece of the story Mike left out. Sorry to repeat what you just stated.

[@DonnaLena1]

The ex-wife’s son, claiming abuse by Christian, was also allowed to plead the fifth

[@mackenzieryan3528]

Yeah I also was surprised Mike didn't mention both Joan AND her son being called to testify and both of them pleading the fifth...

[@frankg3rd1]

@@mackenzieryan3528 My guess is the ex wife hired the execution of these poor people. The fires set nails it.

[@elisaseverns2543]

I know two different cases of the disgruntled wife falsely accusing the husband of inappropriate behavior with their kids so they could get full custody. They even had the kids lie. So never underestimate the threats of a soon to be ex spouse.

[@blisterfingers8169]

It's common for divorce solicitors to advise women to make accusations of abuse against the husband even if completely unprovable because it hurts the man's case in family court, even if it's obviously bs.

[@mr.fukk12]

My sons mom took me to court to try to get a restraining order against me and two weeks before court I wasn’t even served papers for court yet she got drunk and called me at 2 am to come pick her up and luckily I took a video of us doing nasty things and I guess she didn’t see that coming so than like 2 days later I get served papers for court and I show up and her lawyer is saying just sign the paperwork saying that you won’t go to her house or her work cause they tried to trick me cause if she got a restraining order I wouldn’t be able to see my kid so than he’s telling me this and in the paperwork it says I pushed her down the stairs one time and I was beating on her so then I told him hell no he didn’t expect me to read it all and I told him if she’s so scared or me and I beat on her than why did she call me two weeks ago to pick her up for sex? He said do you still have the text messages on your phone I said yes and I said I even have a video of it and he looked at me like he seen a ghost and we went in front of the judge and he dismissed it

[@nickprice7752]

100% facts

[@dianecripps204]

Custody cases are the worst. People will do anything .

[@hapichampagne5916]

“I don’t give a shit how it’s pronounced “ 😂😂 that genuinely made me laugh; I’m just like right !? 😂

[@mobileghost1]

Got me laughing also!

[@kevinhornbuckle]

It isn't funny at all. This guy is too busy blowing his own horn to get serious about relating the facts. Properly pronouncing a town's name is important, if you want to have any credibility.

[@Puddycat00]

@@kevinhornbuckle oh get a life. It was funny

[@catdogman23]

Hahaha I agree

[@ButterBeerBanter]

@@kevinhornbuckle This is KZbin not CNN lol

[@marybethwylie]

"I don't give a sh*t how it's supposed to be pronounced!" I love it! Most people that correct language have never left their small town. When you travel, you realize everyone says everything differently.

[@kathleensmith644]

It’s just Mike’s Irish accent.

[@battlestarnomore]

You're an adult, you can say shit.

[@philiptucker7590]

Tree, turd, Turdy tree, and Turdy are basically Mikes trademarks for his channel now lol. People absolutely love it

[@marybethwylie]

@@philiptucker7590 Me too!

[@MoonbeamBear61]

It's pronounced "Lewvul" for anyone wondering.

[@jamesjoseph1249]

His ex wife is hella sketchy. I think she's lied about everything.

[@mfft627]

hella sketchy

[@MizJaniceResinArt]

I agree. He appears to be answering truthfully in his interview. Her tearful responses in the news interview are completely unbelievable. Injustice really burns my biscuit

[@whitedragoness23]

@@MizJaniceResinArt too much information

[@whitedragoness23]

She’s still leaving a trail of slime in her wake

[@Mario7p]

The narcissist wife did it omg. His face when the verdict... He is strong. Hope he gets justice one day.

[@jenahgraham9772]

I woke up today like, “it’s Tuesday-that chapter!!!” Love Tuesdays and Fridays ♥️♥️♥️

[@proformcoachb4663]

“I don’t give a shit how it’s pronounced.” I love Mike. My spirit animal.

[@victoriay6246]

I immediately liked him twice as much ……. That was epic.

[@danacruz6423]

Yasss!!!!! Me too, love it! Cause we DON'T give a SH**❤️😘😊

[@strivingforbetter7830]

Heck, I LOVE the way he pronounces things!! He definitely does wayyyy better than I would on all them names he deals with. All THURDY TREE of them!! lmao :)

[@ausgaze]

came off as arrogant which was uncalled for. Mike wouldn't read the comments but yeah his channel is slowly changing, the old stuff was proper. this new stuff is yeah too shockjock

[@Don.tKillTheMessanger]

@Yirlani That's a strange thing to say. Totally out of left field.

[@Triumph-nz8pt]

If ever there was a shining example of "doubt" it's this one. My mouth literally dropped open when I heard the verdict and that's never happened before. I was absolutely stunned . It clearly should have been not guilty and I sincerely hope someone is appealing this for him if he can't. Start a petition for him and I'll sign up, there's not much else I can do but I feel awful for him.

[@YTStoleMyUsername]

Yeah there's other cases where I was fairly sure that someone was guilty but one juror held out and the case was deemed a mistrial since they couldn't come to a unanimous decision. Or where the jury ruled not guilty as the prosecution couldn't prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Why did this one go this way? How do so many of us question it but he was just found guilty like that? 🤌 His face at the end was harrowing.... if indeed he is innocent. I do hope he appeals and we find out more details (the truth) because of it, whichever way it leads. It is a strange case for sure.

[@killereverb3928]

Yeah - this is a straight up miscarriage of justice! It’s worse - it’s a stillbirth of justice!!!! What is up with this jury? The facts were too complex for them and that made them convict.

[@pizzlerot2730]

I agree. At the end of the day I do think that he *probably* did it, or otherwise had something to do with it, but that's not enough (or isn't supposed to be enough) for a guilty verdict in the US. There is definitely reasonable doubt present here, and that should've been enough to at least declare a mistrial, if not completely find him "not guilty." I think that a big hole in the defense was, like Mike said, the lack of a decently credible alternative theory or suspect. Unfortunately a lot of cases where the presence of reasonable doubt should be enough to avoid a guilty verdict do not end that way because of the lack of an alternative theory, and that's a real shame. I know that it's only human nature to want to point the finger at someone or something, but we should be intelligent and mature enough to be able to realize that even if there's not another direction to point the finger, that shouldn't mean that it gets pointed back at the defendant by default; and that it absolutely is possible to just say, "I don't know, but I don't necessarily think that it's this person". A lot of cops seem to be unable to grasp that concept, either, and that leads to so, SO many wrongful accusations and prosecutions, and so damn many lives destroyed just so that someone can cross their "t's" and dot their "i's" and close a case :smh:

[@helpis0ntheway]

Agreed. There was no substantial evidence (fingerprints, bloody clothes, kerosene at his home or in his vehicles) to lead to a guilty verdict, especially since his ex just moved out & is a known liar/manipulator. She easily could've taken his tags, gun, bullets, etc.. to set him up. I truly hope he appeals!

[@MrHootie249]

Police, prosecutors and courts do not spend time to put away people like this, more then likely they try hard not to. Can't you see that?

[@HeatherAcosta80]

Honestly, you can say any word any way you want and I'd listen. Beautiful accent. ❤

[@alicianwinter]

this is a tough-y!! I can’t help but feel bad for him.. I really don’t know who did it, but I don’t think he should’ve been convicted on such little physical evidence 🤷🏽‍♀️ re-trial??!

[@plutomaxwell]

Less than a minute and i couldn’t even touch first anything… I love this for you🖤I love sharing That Chapter with people!!

[@ThatChapter]

Thank you so much Kat!!

[@nerdtanks1439]

Right. The growth is epic! 2 years ago I actually stood a chance for a 1st. Lol

[@THEUnholy1]

It's so exciting to see it pop up and try to see Mike first! Lol. I love this channel so much!!!

[@FIGHTINGMAN85]

@@THEUnholy1 me too. Great at telling subs about true crime. He cool as bleep. Great channel brilliantly made videos. Great stuff.

[@brianeisenga882]

I'm here at 27 minutes and there has been 24k views.

[@INSERTNAMExHERE]

I find so much wrong with this. 1st off is the fact his tags were found, and a spent casing found months after by a random person. My dad was a military man throughout most of his life, and the tags came off with his uniform. And he put them in places where they wouldn't be seen/found just by anyone either. Tags have some personal information on them, so to wear them casually while you're murdering someone is like dipping your hand in some fine dust and touching everything around you. The attorney casted doubt pretty well imo, but for some reason the jury had none of it. I hope he appeals, or something. Cause this doesn't feel right to me, and i feel like that Joan women can't be trusted

[@wulver810]

Yeah, I'd never wear my tags, they have your social on them.

[@paulanthony5274]

Yeah she definitely comes across as a hell hath no fury type. Also a bigamist an accuser. There is not enough evidence to convict him beyond a reasonable doubt in accordance with the law,things obviously planted et cetera.

[@kiahanna4927]

No one just wears them around their neck. This sounds crazy

[@Artimidorus]

And he also didn't notice when they fell.

[@paulanthony5274]

@@Artimidorus That's crazy too,he would have gone back there and searched for them if he was guilty,he would have had plenty of time. Plus the police do thorough searches,they find things the average Joe would never find and the pros wants you to believe someone found them whilst cleaning up. It's effin ridiculous!!

[@XursDisciple]

Pretty sure there was enough evidence pointing away from Christian Martin that there should have been reasonable doubt for the jury in this one

[@lyndao7356]

I like your stories, Mike. Your presentation is just right, your humor is understated and unique to crime stories. I’ve been watching for while now and wanted to tell you you’re the best. Thanks.

[@keithdevlin1]

"He would rather admit to having sex with his dog." *Things you would rather not hear in a television interview*

[@pluckyheroine9482]

Or any time ever.

[@VanMorgue]

Never. Bah

[@trishtrish9713]

It was a German Shepherd though😂😂😂(joke)

[@WilliamHPastey]

the most concerning part of this video is the lawyer's handwriting on that kindergarten visual aide

[@richt7525]

Or having needed said visual aide. Like, look guys, it's totally written down. That makes it fact my dudes. Take notes.

[@paulalyus9237]

The news presentation of case was really mind boggling , this is the first time I’ve heard it explained clearly, thanks for that 👏

[@winkieblink7625]

Strange verdict. Evidence does sound planted……and years later.

[@oldtimer7635]

And you make that judgement after this 30 mins video?

[@waffleten9750]

@@oldtimer7635 I mean everything seems pretty layout if look up the case online then everything matches up. So yeah he most likely can

[@LaBrooky]

Really frustrates me that they didn't even consider the ex-wife a suspect. Almost like the detectives were thinking "Easy enough, look at that!! Case pretty much solved itself!!"

[@biancham]

I mean a solved case with a conviction always looks better for the detectives, prosecutors, city and state. So they’ll put away someone that could be guilty, before putting in the effort to find out if they’re truly guilty or not.

[@glamdolly30]

The ex wife wasn't a suspect, because there was no evidence against her! You talk as if the police are idiots. Do you seriously believe a petite woman would murder three people (who were her loyal, supportive friends btw), then move two of their bodies, and set fire to them in a vehicle? If she was the killer, she'd have just left the bodies at the house. Women very rarely commit violent crimes, and when they do they get caught precisely because it's so unusual. Christian Martin is guilty - the victims saw him watching their home in the weeks before they were killed, and they were so scared of him they got firearms training. They were right to be afraid! Their loved ones and an impartial jury who heard all the evidence, believe he did it. So do I!

[@thecourtlyalchemist]

@@glamdolly30 Most women don't commit bigamy which is a crime. Most don't threaten to ruin a man's life because he wants to divorce her (not that they were really married.) Most don't make false police reports, also a crime. Most do not coach their kids to pretend to be abused by target of her ruination. Most don't instigate court-martial procedures against their military partners, following through on her threats to ruin him. Clearly Joan isn't like most. She got firearms training right before 3 people close to her were found shot dead. That alone is reason enough to consider her as a possible suspect. She's also got an adult son who could lift a body or two for her as well as at least 2 boyfriends, one named Stokes, the brother of a police crime scene investigator who had to recuse himself from searching the house of Joan's neighbor and other dead boyfriend Calvin when the murders were discovered. Mother Joan and adult son both took the 5th when they were subpoenaed to testify against Martin so as not to incriminate themselves. Martin took the stand in his own defense.

[@glamdolly30]

@@thecourtlyalchemist Your assumptions Joan's accusations of abuse against Martin are false are only that - assumptions. She was a bigamist, but that doesn't automatically make her guilty of the other, far more serious crimes you allude to, including three murders! Your other assumption, that police did not consider and dismiss her as a suspect in those murders, is even more far fetched. Armchair detectives are always so quick to believe the police are incompetent or corrupt! Nor can Martin's innocence be assumed by the fact he took the stand in his defence. His TV interview suggested he was a narcissist with total faith in his ability to manipulate others' opinion of him. No doubt he believed he could charm the jury. He comes across as a high functioning, highly plausible and ruthless psychopath. I believe his partner may some day admit she gave him a false alibi for the murders.

[@thecourtlyalchemist]

@@glamdolly30 No one on the outside knows if there was abuse, but everyone is in agreement that there is no evidence of abuse. Calvin Phillips is on tape saying that Joan never mentioned any abuse, and that he never saw any abuse, and never saw any evidence of abuse. Martin's first wife said Martin was never abusive. The policeman called out by Joan to take a report of domestic violence and abuse testified under oath that he saw no evidence of abuse. He did witness Joan coaching her kid to lie about being abused. The judge threw out the abuse case based on a lack of evidence. Joan also accused her first husband of being abusive, but also said he was dead (from decapitation) which he is not. Joan seems like a terrible person. She has a credibility problem which is why no one in their right mind believes her abuse claims. She is a very poor actress too. None of this makes her a murderer. Having murdered someone would make her a murderer. Setting someone up for a murder they didn't commit and life in prison- that might only make her a monster.

[@GarySuley]

It’s hot as shite outside and the only cool thing on this Tuesday is a new video dropped by Mike. Giving it a sweaty goo!!

[@escapec1077]

Hotter than a spoon at H.B.’s house 😳

[@a.b.d.3974]

😄

[@87alsjth]

HA!

[@rosemadder5547]

97° f here!

[@craigh5236]

Winter can't come fast enough

[@dazeddyke]

One thing I'm learning about watching your videos Mike, is that I never want to be a juror on a murder trial. At least to me, the defense IMO deomonstrated that there was reasonable doubt. The burden to not let a murderer go free to kill again and the fear of putting an innocent person in jail, that's a weight I think I'd crumble under. If I'm ever summoned (I've received 2 in my life and both were canceled before I ever got to go in) that's exactly what I'll say to be dismissed.

[@mariatorres9789]

You're exactly the kind of person that belongs on a jury. Sadly, most people aren't afforded jurors that care about the gravity of a murder case and the strength of our Constitution, that 12 people should agree, before removing our rights. Sadly, most people just want to convict & go home, & figure the cops wouldn't have arrested an innocent person.

[@JeffreyBenzodiazepines]

Jurors are a bunch of ignorant hick assholes. The whole tradition is very backwards to me, can you refuse to show up?

[@HobbesRN]

I really feel bad for this guy. When the jury announced their verdict, the look on his face said it all. He was so sad.

[@MelieneGardner]

@@gomahklawm4446 I agree with you. I *might* have believed him if it weren't for the GPS.

[@johno30197]

Sad!! More like gutted that he'd finally been caught by a jury the was.nt having none of is BS...

[@johno30197]

@predator against dad's 😂😂😂👍🤜💥😁

[@daves2058]

@@gomahklawm4446 could Joan have manipulated the gps?

[@I_luv_french_fries]

The last scene with Kit hearing the guilty verdict...he looks like a broken man. I don’t think he did it.. didn’t seem like there was any real evidence against him.

[@kimmyfreak200]

u can see the disappointment in his eyes at the end... very sad. hope the innocence project helps him

[@mmwar105]

Kits innocent PERIOD...

[@303elliott]

Yeah. That hurt to watch

[@first_ones_free6556]

I’m 10 minutes in and I’m pretty certain this lady did it. We’ll see when I’m finished. Edit: interesting. No answers. I’ve been watching true crime interrogation for years and years. I’m no detective, but if this guy did it, with his confidence and the way he holds himself and speaks on it, then he’s the best liar I’ve seen.

[@cazbee6126]

Psychopaths ARE the best liars... no anxiety to trip them up.

[@first_ones_free6556]

@@cazbee6126 but wouldn’t a psychopath exhibit signs growing up of anything? His ex wife said she never had any problems with him. If anything I’d see a triple murder as a crime of passion but if it was, I’m sure he’d be a nervous wreck right? He did have some military combat though so

[@silaslizzie43]

How about the character assassinations he uses? An innocent person wouldn't need to do that. And sociopaths and psychopaths have no anxiety about lying, it's just a tool to accomplish end goals.

[@gravydog1]

Agree 100%. His reaction when hearing the verdict was complete and utter shock and dismay.

[@DebCalabria]

Yeah Psychopaths make very believable liars.

[@emu816841]

While I can't speak to anything in regards to this guy's case, guilt or innocence, I can say something about the dog tags. My husband was enlisted in the Army for 15 years. They had to carry dog tags in multiple pockets of their ACUs (their camo uniform) and because of that, we had over a dozen copies of his dog tags, still do after he got out. Dog tags are a dime a dozen in a military household, so of everything the defense claimed was planted, those would be the least difficult.

[@blackconduit_fpv7099]

Seems to be, evidence doesn't matter as much as just convincing a jury someone did it. It's definitely not proven beyond reasonable doubt. Also... why was Joan's husband, (1st) not brought in as a suspect? His wife cheated on him and married kit, that's a pretty good reason to set kit up.

[@thecourtlyalchemist]

They'd have to convince a jury that the dude wanted her back- impossible. For that matter, Martin was with someone else. Why kill three neighbors in a jealous fit? He was glad to be out. He wanted the divorce.

[@sineadcampbell5147]

Fair point

[@TheQuantumPotato]

It's something I often wonder about with regards to the jury system. As far as I understand, they're not allowed to reveal their deliberations to anyone else. How can anyone be sure that they're actually following the rules or making reasonable judgements? If they're not following the rules it's not even necessarily because of malicious intent, it can just be through error, oversight, or misunderstanding. I remember hearing that a juror in the OJ trial got interviewed on TV after the trial, and when she was asked about OJ's blood being present, she said something like "well everybody's got blood," totally misunderstanding or refusing to understand that it had been genetically matched to him. I get that the point of a jury is so that the state can't just decide that people are guilty, and that they're not allowed to talk to anyone else about it so that they can't give anything away, but it seems like in its current form it's far from being the best solution possible.

[@Ranillon]

My personal theory is that all too many juries DON'T understand what 'Beyond a Reasonable Doubt' truly is. Too many think it's really a 'preponderance of the evidence' or 'All things being equal I think he did it' both of which are essentially being 51% sure of guilt. However, the standard of 'Beyond a Reasonable Doubt' is MUCH higher at being 95% sure of guilt. Basically, in such a case the only way someone could not be guilty despite all the obvious evidence against him or her requires something preposterous like a giant conspiracy against them or a whole number of unbelievable coincidences. Thus, if you look at the evidence and merely go 'Well, best that I can tell I think he did it' then that's NOT being 95% sure of guilt and you should therefore acquit the defendant. Problem is that too many juries go with the 51% level which is why you get innocent people in jail.