The UK’s Baby Shortage (and the Government's Plans to Fix it)

Compare news coverage. Spot media bias. Avoid algorithms. Be well informed. Download the free Ground News app at: ground.news/tldr
Over the last few decades, the UK's birth rate has been slowly dropping, and now half of women in England and Wales are childless by their 30th birthday. So in this video, we drill down into the data, why it's a problem and how Sunak plans to address it.
💬 Twitter: / tldrnewsuk
📸 Instagram: / tldrnewsuk
🎞 TikTok: / tldrnews
🗣 Discord: tldrnews.co.uk/discord
💡 Got a Topic Suggestion? - forms.gle/mahEFmsW1yGTNEYXA
Support TLDR on Patreon: / tldrnews
Donate by PayPal: tldrnews.co.uk/funding
TLDR Store: www.tldrnews.co.uk/store
TLDR TeeSpring Store: teespring.com/stores/tldr-spring
Learn About Our Funding: tldrnews.co.uk/funding
TLDR is all about getting you up to date with the news of today, without bias and without filter. We aim to give you the information you need, quickly and simply so that you can make your own decision.
TLDR is a completely independent & privately owned media company that's not afraid to tackle the issues we think are most important. The channel is run by just a small group of young people, with us hoping to pass on our enthusiasm for politics to other young people. We are primarily fan sourced with most of our funding coming from donations and ad revenue. No shady corporations, no one telling us what to say. We can't wait to grow further and help more people get informed. Help support us by subscribing, following, and backing us on Patreon. Thanks!

[@Paladiea]

Imagine telling people that they shouldn't have kids if they can't afford it for decades and then scratching your head over why no one is having kids.

[@almor2445]

This. Exactly this.

[@katieb2098]

It's a really awful age to be alive. Humans are so selfish .. and to be human , on a cellular level el.our bodies try to get us to reproduce, its s part of the human experience.. and it's become looked at like a completely unnatural act

[@moorlivingholistic]

Imagine people actually listening....

[@Paladiea]

@@moorlivingholistic Why wouldn't they?

[@harishs8567]

Govt: surprised Pikachu

[@davetherave1230]

WE ARE TOO WORRIED ABOUT PAYING RENT TO HAVE CHILDREN!!!!

[@terryj50]

Maybe time to get a job and stop relying on the tax payer to pay your rent

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

@@Gary-bz1rf doesn't mean it's a good idea to start a family when you're financially unstable

[@davetherave1230]

@terryj50 OK boomer, BTW I have a job.

[@ramesh_manga]

​@@terryj50it is possible to have a job and still be worried about paying rent. Nothing in davetherave's post indicates lack of a job. Perhaps the reply was intended against a different comment.

[@FullMetalFeline]

@@terryj50 Lol what, if the taxpayer was paying his rent I doubt he'd be worried about it.

[@Smorans]

I have two young boys, I’m in my early 30’s and my husband is almost 40, in order to house, feed and clothe everyone, my husband and I both work full time. He works a reasonably well paid 9-5 and i work a not quite so well paid nightshift job as a factory supervisor. I’m also studying part time for my Masters degree. My quality of life is frankly awful. I’m constantly tired and have no social life at all, i have no time fir hobbies, I can’t recall when i last read a book. I love my family and they are worth all the struggles❤ but I don’t blame anyone for not wanting my life.

[@CordeliaWagner]

People were told you can't raise kids in an appartment, only in a house in the nightmare called suburbia. People can't afford buying a house, so they stay in their appartments. Childfree, enjoying their lifes.

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

Suburbs are NOT "nightmares" for those living in them. Suburbs are a harm/burden upon dense inner cities who pay more than their fair share of taxes.

[@cliffsofmoher4220]

Well more kids means more resource being used so why do they want people to have kids when it's a burden

[@thomasranjit7781]

When you get old without children you will know what fun is all about.

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

Work on the biotechnology to MAKE THOSE WHO ALREADY EXIST YOUNG AND IMMORTAL! e.g. the Foresight Institute Do NOT FORCE NEW PEOPLE INTO THE WORLD WITHOUT THEIR PRIOR CONSENT!@@thomasranjit7781

[@mkkrupp2462]

@@thomasranjit7781 Many many older people, especially ones in nursing homes, hardly ever see their children. But people don’t like to reveal it.

[@SuperBararo]

Housing. People aren't going to start a family in a student flat or while they still live at their parents. People still have relationships but it'd be unwise to start a family if you have no place to raise one in the foreseeable future.

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

Spot on mate 💯

[@namm0x326]

@@Gary-bz1rf Those nations are poor as fuck yo

[@avisian8063]

​@@Gary-bz1rf too right Gaz, we have too high standards in this country. If people would get over themselves and live 20 to a flat this wouldn't be a problem. Just in case you cant tell i am being sarcastic

[@Zack-fu4lo]

a child is cheap if you only feed potatoes and don't send it to school. and if you skip out on healthcare, then yeah, the child might die, but as long as you make another one, it'll be as if you never lost one. just like how people in the medieval ages did so. but nobody wants to do rthat

[@prometheusjackson8787]

Over half the world lives in multi generational households bruh. They still have kids

[@trickvro]

Millennials were absolutely bombarded from all angles throughout our entire formative years by the message that you shouldn't have kids if you can't afford to raise them. Now everyone's upset because we took that advice.

[@ED-gk8vg]

Right!

[@robertjones2053]

That was not the message. The message was everybody's goes to uni and gets a career even women. So loads of women came out of uni at 21. Then tried a grad schemes for 2 years then tried to climbed the career ladder and bam they are 30. Single and childless. Fyi I was born in 1994 and have a wife and 2 small kids but we didnt go to uni and do not subscribe to the woke ideology. We still have gender specific roles. Etc.

[@chickenmadness1732]

@@robertjones2053 yeah my sister is 34. Spent her whole life trying to become a solicitor and isn't even qualified yet. She's gone back to study for the exam that will qualify her this year. She never had time for a relationship and is still a virgin. She made a big effort to find a husband last year and is going to get married soon so I hope she can have kids soon. Once you hit 35 it's considered 'geriatric pregnancy' and you need to spend thousands of pounds to freeze your eggs. The modern woke ideology just doesn't line up with biology and real life. If women are forced to focus on careers most of them won't be able to have children by default because they will be to old. The old ways where the man provides and the woman nurtures the kids worked for thousands of years and we're now seeing why. If you take that ideal away the population plummets.

[@robertjones2053]

@@chickenmadness1732 agree with this. I have a lot of women in my life that were born around 1990 up to the year 2002. Wifes of friends. Sister in laws, cousins.. brother gf. Etc and I see it. The pursuit for career mean by the time they realise it's either not as good as they think or do not make it then they are atleast 30. If not older. 🤔

[@ukwerna]

@@robertjones2053 hahaha sorry to say, but its quite obvious that are old, and soon to be irrelevant, and beleive me its for the best. You are literally one of the reasons we have this problem, because you are of the kind that "trusts his masters" without questioning them and they played you all your life, even now. I am glad you had a good life though, every human deserves that, and there is no sarcasm in this.

[@peterkirby2771]

Who in the right mind would bring children into this burning , corrupt , Greed, poverty , insane World.

[@leonardoleo5740]

I would. And why wouldn't you? You live in a country with high development and advanced society. Why wouldn't you bring a child?

[@darrenpat182]

​@@derek4412most people back then had no access to contraceptives and we're deeply religious.

[@mkkrupp2462]

@@darrenpat182 Yes, no effective contraception plus religious brainwashing from birth.

[@Jochen-jv7vq]

@@mkkrupp2462”religious brainwashing” so you think the world is that white and black

[@Epic_Memer_Man]

To be fair the world was always like this the only difference is people are aware more than ever and corperations and government and made houses and inflation and unbearable Along with "femenism" which enslaves women into work to be able to afford things. The fact women are working is forcing every women to work meaning no room for a family. I am for women's right and right to abortion but today's "femenism" is really just capitalism

[@InsideBoxingBrain]

My parents bought a 3 bed house in 1992 for £7k in 2023 , 30 years on that house is worth £200k , My dads wage at the time in 1992 was £25k per year , My salary in 2023 £35k per year ... how on earth is my generation supposed to buy homes and raises a family if im going to spend the rest of my life paying of my student loan and living at home.

[@Youssii]

Many “breeding age” adults now live in a single room in a shared flat. Who’s going to bring a child into that?

[@Liz-cp4xl]

Or with their parents, in my case 😂

[@thedeadd.c.207]

Be more homes, if the UK were not so accommodating to immigrants both the legal and illegal kinds. As well refugees. The UK people should always come first.

[@w0ngky]

If a foreigner or immigrant is able to come to your country and make a living, you need to learn from that person because it is MUCH harder for someone who isnt born in your country to do that over you as some that is born there. I actually wanna entertain your idea - So you think your people in UK would be having more kids if the UK was not as accommodating to immigrants? Please elaborate

[@testoftimegaming5219]

not when there's in the percentage game .... oh your white and stright sorry we got yo many of those now we dont hire your kind 😂😂😂 you think im exaggerating but try it yourself literally apply a job give exactly the same details but in one claim to be anything but white and anything but stright youll be interviewed i got a high paying job at a graphics design studio beacuse they think im gay my stright application didnt even get a reply 😂

[@Mmbbnmf2pz]

@@w0ngky I’m a foreigner data scientist who lives in a box room

[@peterclarke7240]

We already know it won't work. Japan has tried all these things, with no success. Because the underlying problems: insecure jobs, high rents, both parents having to work because wages are too low etc, still exist.

[@sglenny001]

Doesn't Japan also have a thing incourgure sex more

[@Immudzen]

that is the real problem and I don't see governments doing much about it. the wealthy keep getting wealthier while real wages keep falling while the costs of everything keeps increasing. Having children just doesn't make sense.

[@dr.casebolt]

South Korea also

[@1Mutton1]

The underlying problem is woman wanting to work instead of having kids and people in general thinking their own luxuries are mlre.important.. Not necessarily saying one is better than the other but it's a cause and effect.

[@realhorrorshow8547]

@@1Mutton1 "Luxuries." Like a home, a secure job and a decent income? Are you going to do the whole Four Yorkshiremen sketch?

[@KrisHughes]

Government: "We want more people, just not immigrants." Government: "We need young workers to pay for retired people's pensions and care." Retired people: "You told us we already paid for that out of our own wages. Have you been robbing us?"

[@mirsaes]

They raided those programs long ago which is why they brought in the clot shots.

[@manchesterunited4293]

Well you clearly don’t understand how pensions work young people pay taxed then old people get pension then the next generation its just repating the same

[@manchesterunited4293]

Immigration did not fix the problem we have a declining population meanwhile taking 1.2 million migrants

[@tc-tm1my]

Pension is designed as a pyramid scheme. I'm 35 and I don't anticipate retirement in 30 years.

[@RuthvenMurgatroyd]

The pension system is a pyramid scheme that relies on there being a new generation of young people to leach off of. Apparently all that hippy-dippy freelove nonsense didn't work out in the end-go figure.

[@omerjawhar]

As biology states, organisms mate when the environment is suitable for offsprings to survive and thrive

[@evilds3261]

So, evidently, the current environment is not suitable for offspring to survive and thrive.

[@Mitjitsu]

It's mainly caused by two things. 1. People not having a home of their own 2. Lack of decent stable jobs. Making it hard for a person to support 2 people.

[@philspencelayh5464]

My mother stayed at home and looked after 4 children, my father was a self employed window cleaner and as such supporting 6 people. No benefits apart from family allowance and they managed. We were pretty poor but I think it would be impossible to do now as everything costs so much.

[@joeblogs6598]

"2. Lack of decent stable jobs. Making it hard for a person to support 2 people." Glad you have noticed this. The reason why corporations and governments have pushed women into the labor force is because they wanted, and have succeeded in, halving the value of labor. Capitalists need now only pay half the wage they did to gain the same hours. Women are encouraged by all of society to 'get in that work mill with the men to show how strong you are!', this sold to them not to help or empower them, but simply to double the number of workers.

[@Mitjitsu]

@@joeblogs6598 It was more to do with increasing the tax base than anything else.

[@lovebunnykaz]

@@philspencelayh5464 absolutely! I kepe hearing this argument from my inlaws but we had it hard we coped but it's a different era

[@meiko431]

3.the decadence of humanity,personally i wouldn't want to bring a child in a world the way it is nowadays.

[@lorrygoth]

If only governments actually valued people instead of seeing them as a resource to exploit.

[@terryj50]

If only people got jobs and stopped relying on the tax payer all the time to pay their way.

[@gecko8948]

​@@terryj50 if only you took a nuanced approach to the issue...

[@peterclarke7240]

What does that have to do with birthrates?

[@capybara9921]

Here we go. It didn't take long for the Daily Mail readers to turn up.

[@lorrygoth]

@@peterclarke7240 If people could afford to live they could make the choice to have children. If you only see them as a resource then if you try and force them into parenthood you also force them into bankruptcy.

[@sarahjames927]

Remember when we were young and wanted to be an adult. Biggest scam in existence.

[@evilds3261]

Not like we had a choice. However, now we can take advantage of whatever we can make choices on regardless of what others want us to choose.

[@woodpigeon7776]

I’m of childbearing age, but I refuse to have kids. The world the government has made is NOT GOOD ENOUGH for any children of mine. I’m dropping out

[@rononel8046]

A friend said to me "It's great that we've started to look at the childcare cost issue, but wouldn't it be better to make it affordable for a new family to live on a single income"

[@chesterdonnelly1212]

That would be better for the family and for society, but the government needs people working to generate GDP and pay taxes.

[@mushroomtits8387]

Maybe then … not a PC thing 2 say but … women would find "average-working-class” men suitable. Because right now seems like the top 10% of men/male earners are even on young womens' wishlists 🤔 .

[@razarraz8276]

That would be nice but you can't get as much tax if only 1 person per household is required to work. It's why feminism was invented by the elites, to get women working so they can tax more people and get the parents out the picture so they can indoctrinate the youth in schools and on the TV ect

[@gabeangel8104]

When minimum wage was first created it was designed to be that a whole family could be supported on one of the parents working a minimum wage job. Now both parents people can hardly support themselves on minimum wage, let alone a family because it hasn't kept up with the cost of living going up. Maybe ensuring that rates of income raised at the same rate as inflation would be a better place for the government to start looking. They don't seem to understand that childcare is only ONE of the unaffordable expenses of having kids. Plus, even with cheeper child care, the amount of child care it would take for both parents to work full time would still be unobtainable, and that's assuming they have an average 9-5 job and not shift patterns that vary in times or don't fit around when the subsidized child care is offered

[@rononel8046]

@@gabbsdy8741 you get that it wouldn't be tax that paid a decent wage don't you?

[@thomashavard-morgan8181]

As a millennial, when you can't get on the property market, or afford a basic standard of living, why on earth would I ever consider having a child.

[@saagisharon8595]

the ones who caused this overlooked who would grow up to manage this life doing the jobs you won't be able to do, because it wasn't their problem

[@THEF4LLOFM4N]

To qualify for free childcare in the UK which only actually covers 4 days a week both parents must be earning a minimum about £2000 each a month which is ridiculous.

[@gabeangel8104]

The world's a mess and people are struggling to support themselves let alone a family! I wouldn't want to bring kids into this sort of life either if I was still that age

[@eveeybean5254]

My partner and I are 29 and 27, university educated with stable, average-wage jobs, we rent a flat together and we're in a stable long-term relationship. We would be the prime demographic for starting a family, and it is something we would like in the future, but realistically there is just no way we can justify it right now when you factor in the cost of childcare, loss of earnings, the risk of our landlord selling up, the rising cost of food and energy. We as healthy adults can afford to not put on the heating and get under a blanket, a small child cannot. It's ironic that the government will demonise the poor and tell people not to have kids they can't afford, and yet are suddenly shocked and surprised when that is exactly what happens.

[@joshklaver47]

How can you justify bringing children into this world at all? It's a mess, and the cost of living is only going to get worse. Not to mention the environmental impact of having children. The kindest thing you can ever do for a child is not bring them here.

[@SJD88_CFC]

Shut up bitch. Do your deed and plant your seed

[@edwardharris5301]

I know that feeling, I have the cheapest lunch possible - I don't spend massive amounts on added outgoings, but even then I'm just about finishing with a bit of money saved each month and thats without dependents

[@GTMarmot]

You're not the prime demographic.

[@maksgaminghd2870]

@@joshklaver47 I wouldnt want people like you to have kids anyway.

[@R9000]

Maybe I'm being too traditional, but I feel like what parents need is not more childcare from other random people, it's the ability to spend time with their children and raise them, instead of having to leave them alone in the day time to work. The problem is not that parents don't have enough childcare. It's that they don't have enough *money*. We need to fix the economy if we want to encourage actually happy, well-adjusted kids, and decrease the number of hours the parents (as a couple) have to spend working in order to provide for them.

[@alexpotts6520]

Right. Rather than paying for childcare, the government could give parents the same amount of money directly. They could still spend it on childcare if they wanted to, and they'd be no worse off, but if they wanted to spend the money on something else then they'd be better off given that money to do what they want with it, rather than spending it on childcare.

[@petrairene]

A high quality free education system from childcare to university would help though.

[@alexpotts6520]

@@petrairene (Hot take - arguably people going to university has reduced the birth rate. It's three additional years where people aren't earning full-time, and aren't for the most part in the sort of long-term relationships that lead to children.)

[@Mirrtamirrv]

Capitalism really makes people think basic human nature is “too traditional”. We’re simply doomed in the hands of corporations.

[@KateeAngel]

You don't understand how big of a role a good quality affordable pre-school education can have on kids and parents

[@MrMarkhall1]

It's too expensive, if you've got kids you wanna house with a garden, mothers are being forced to work even when their kids are young.

[@candycornpeeps]

We are working too much to barely afford rent and the essentials. We are not going to bring a child into this hell of a living situation.

[@Plexippuspetersi92]

"The government's plan to fix it" is such an ominous statement.

[@Redsleather]

That’s Tory for we’ll take a non-existent problem, use it as a deflection and make things even worse

[@davidroddini1512]

What? Brits aren’t used to being f’d by their politicians? 😉

[@dilligafwoftam985]

Yep ... "the Govt will fix it" . Fcuk, what could go wrong.

[@stuartmorgan3654]

Death by snu snu. Get those birth rates up. Male deaths by crushed pelvis may increase.

[@Redsleather]

@@dilligafwoftam985 when it all goes wrong, Sunak and Braverman as always will cry ‘oh look at those boats’ and declare the Tories will fight them on the beaches

[@idraote]

One needs a village to raise a child but the village is long gone. Parents need to manage by themselves as their own parents are often still working themselves.

[@BobWill1846]

@@OOL-UV2 Way to intentionally misunderstand it. He is talking about communal parenting. Closer communities can support each other better, rather than struggling against each other.

[@catherinemcevoy75]

Or parents have died.

[@chesterdonnelly1212]

Or parents are caring for their parents

[@reheyesd8666]

@OOL-uv2qu This is such a Reddit take on women 🤣

[@alexrobbins4891]

​@@OOL-UV2 I want the village..women no longer need to be baby factorys due to birth control but children especially very small ones need mommy around and if not mommy nanny grandad ect why do we have to pay stranger to raise our kids makes zero sense I'd rather do the job myself because no can do the job better...works still there when kidos are in school 😊

[@jonathand8873]

Why have a child knowing they risk living with you for fifty years? Housing costs in proportion to incomes have become unsustainable and now we are seeing the knock on effects.

[@JB-vs5ql]

We have to just work harder

[@SuzyDarling04]

I am married & we have chosen not to have children. We definitely could not afford to, but that is NOT even the reason! WHY SHOULD WE HAVE A CHILDREN & THEN PAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO LOOK AFTER THEM SO WE CAN GO TO WORK? I’ve been called selfish for not wanting children. However, I think it’s selfish to have them & leave them for someone to take care of them…? 🙃

[@iix7842]

Good job ..mankind must disappear

[@randomuser3592]

How is that selfish? I had a childminder as a very small child and, due to there being very little vetting or child protection measures put in place at the time, I was severely abused and still dealing with the after effects as a young adult including possible BPD. You’re doing the right thing honestly

[@dh5549]

That's why daycares and preschools exist. Of course I believe maternity and paternity care should be two years minimum. Perhaps children start school at age 3 full time. Then parents can work and know their children are being taken care of.

[@dh5549]

​@randomuser Sorry you were abused, but not every caregiver is abusive.

[@dreamgirlroshni]

True dear

[@farli]

Good Lord. Like anyone can afford to have children in this economy???

[@ajama1335]

@@Gary-bz1rf why do you think that is?

[@rizkyadiyanto7922]

you think people in nigeria can afford it? or do the kids die of starvation?

[@The_Phoenix_Saga]

What economy?

[@avisian8063]

​@@Gary-bz1rf sure they do

[@Bushflare]

This is cope. Children are affordable and even beyond that they put so much value into your own life that to refuse them out of money concerns is reflective of ignorance. We don't value parenthood the way we ought to in this country and it's dealing possibly even permanent damage to our way of life. It's terrible.

[@beveryamazed2178]

This is one of the things that frustrates me with people who are older and/or more conservative leaning. They put the population decline down to selfish millennials not wanting to commit while it is millennials who are paying a high tax burden for those who have retired or are about to. Millennials and Gen Z don’t have the financial and social resources afforded by their parents and grandparents

[@nicemoods5216]

Well said. David Willets’ book “How the Baby Boomers Took their Children’s Future…” explains this very well.

[@chuck1804]

Boomers are out of touch, by definition. Quelle surprise.

[@Madonnalitta1]

You're whining. Those who have retired payed their whole life for others who were retired when they were young. That is how it works, there is no 'pension pot' of money anywhere, it comes from taxes like always. I'm 36, so knowhere near retired.

[@HerbDerderdrerd]

@@Madonnalitta1 You may not be aware that the average retiree in the UK now nets a £150k loss to the state relative to how much they paid in across their life.

[@ojw5922]

@@Madonnalitta1 learn to spell pal

[@egyptianlotus4179]

Do,we really want to have children in this unstable, corrupt world

[@nichola9164]

You know what, I don't blame them. I have two children and seeing the absolute state of this country and the wider world makes me feel selfish for even thinking I could provide a better life for them. Furthermore, the Tories have made it clear that parents only job after having a child is to get back to work. You can't concentrate on your child's development or making secure attachments - you must allow a nursery to raise them whilst you become the wage slave you were born to be. There is exactly zero hope for humanity and I believe that good old Rule Britannia is leading the way, along with its western pals.

[@Stuntman707]

40 to 50% of my income goes on rent before bills. I can’t afford to buy a house that costs 10 times my annual salary let alone have kids.

[@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax]

Exactly. These half wits have no idea why people aren't having kids. They get told the reasons and because they are pig headed they disagree even when the facts show the former. That people can't afford rent let alone having a baby. Honestly some of these people are delusional....and probably Tory which explains everything.

[@aye3678]

Sadly, these Tory c**ts don't give a shit.

[@gf6x3gkmfw38]

Same G

[@lynxfresh5214]

Yup and you wonder why the UK is considered the sick man of western Europe or the "poorest" rich nation in the world?

[@chickenmadness1732]

This is why I chose to live with my parents instead of renting. I have no-life but I do have a lot of money that I'm going to use to escape the country soon. Gotta make sacrifices to get out of this hell hole.

[@11chuckey]

The UK has the 2nd highest childcare costs in the world. But average wages are the 14th highest. You don’t have to be a statistician to see a massive problem with this ratio.

[@SamuelBlack84]

The government are just hoping that you'll ignore that and blindly carry out your "civic duty"

[@gabbar51ngh]

Don't worry immigrants would fill in the gap.

[@chudchadanstud]

Don't worry they will cut the cost of child care in half. I'm sure single people who are struggling to pay rent will be delighted to know this.

[@cintiqlover]

We don’t want childcare we want to be able to afford to raise a kid.. ourselves… not have us working our lives away, outsourcing care, and missing raising the kid

[@dbwhab4150]

Young people who are able to have kids literally have nowhere to live. One bedroom apartment for me and my husband eats up 40% of our shared income (which is not even that bad nowadays), and we are lucky to have that. You can imagine how much grosseries and stuff we need to survive costs. We barely can save any money at all. If one is out of work to stay with a child we would have even less, and how are we to pay for kindergardens/schools etc? Especially when they are so full you have to sign your kid basically before you even have it? 🙄and I live in central Europe where it is a bit better than in the UK, but not that much.

[@Grassmonster3]

If I were still of childbearing age, I wouldn't even consider having children now. I wouldn't be prepared to work full-time, farm my children out to someone else and try to juggle what little time I have left in the day trying to shop, clean, cook and look after my children just to provide the government with the next generation of workers. I stayed home until my children were of school age because I wanted to spend time with them - this isn't a possibility for most people now. Then there's the issue of what kind of future is in store for children born today - little to no chance of ever owning their own homes, crippling financial pressures, a declining standard of living and the threat of climate breakdown. Maybe the powers that be need to start looking at us as people instead of viewing us as a stock of breeding draft animals.

[@andreal5947]

Exactly right!

[@carinaoliveira5850]

I didn't love the tone of the response as to why the government needs to help lessen childcare expenses. The thesis basically stated the risk of a lack of workers, and presents the upside of how much money can be made from all the new babies entering the workforce in 20 years if they help us plebs. Also as more AI is being developed, this "in speculation" decreases the amount of jobs needed by humans. If AI continues the way it does, we may end up in even more crisis due to the lack of jobs for human workers.

[@Ag3nt0fCha0s]

Why has this not got more replies. As for AI, that maybe viewed as riskier to the powers that be as it could be harder to control than ppl

[@jandrews6254]

My grandparents came from families of 10 and 14 children. Having had my own two children at a time pre-(not really)disposable nappies, but thankfully having an automatic washing machine and (briefly) an electric dryer, I am aghast at how my grandmother dealt with that issue in 1928 with twins, when her absolute most loved high tech device was an electric mangle. Add to that the laundering and ironing of clothes, sheets and towels made of straight cotton or linen, even drying the laundry during winter - in Canada! I’m in Tasmania now and drying laundry is challenging during winter, it has to be hung up inside. How did she cope? And then they returned to England in about 1929-30 to visit family - by steamer! How long did that take? What were the laundering facilities aboard? How many kids do you expect people to have now? To be cannon fodder for the tax office. Sorry chum, you need carrots, not sticks

[@JoKeene]

💯 agreed 👍

[@Nasherrrzzz]

I can say this from experience as somebody who has left the UK to Finland, with the total cost of the UK being a significant factor. Taxes may be lower than rest of Europe but as the saying goes you'll get the money pulled out another way. The issue with the UK is the taxes provide no value. Childcare costs full-time are 1k minimum PER MONTH. Add to that housing, I was looking at a place in reading, central enough where I would not need a car, easily was looking at 1400/ month (pre energy crisis). Public transport costs are a joke also. Generally the quality of all these services is quite poor also. Take nursery for instance, facilities are lacking, staff shortages and the nurseries have to charge extra to you as a parent to bridge the gap between these 'free hours' the government offers. As a UK citizen it's pretty shocking that our kids start is so well as truly not supported. I don't even pay that much more in taxes in Finland than I did in the UK and the value and quality is clear to see. I pay 295 euro a month for my child full-time and the quality is amazing. I actually am saving more money now than I did when I didn't have a child.

[@petrairene]

Exactly. In Germany the taxes may be higher, but you get very cheap childcare (though a shortage of places), good healthcare, free university tutelage for your kids, in cities reasonably priced public transport. If it wasn't for Brexit, something you inflicted on yourself, you could come to the continent to get work under better conditions. BTW, if you have a qualification that is sought after, you will still get a working visum and will be welcome here.

[@terryj50]

You also have only 5 million people in Finland when you have the same migration has the uk you might want to think again about your statement

[@Nasherrrzzz]

@@terryj50 If immigration was even relevant (which it isn't), the Finland has the same per capita immigration rate as the UK. TLDR - UK government has shit childcare and policy

[@devilsympathy1]

​@@terryj50 that's your strawman argument fed to you through the telly, yesterday it was immigrants coming to take our jobs, theb immigrants wanting to take your benefits. Now it's the illegal immigrants coming to this country to rape and murder or whatever. How can you be so gullible to everything falling apart around you while the richest keep getting richer and the poorer becoming unable to sustain themselves? One in three children live in poverty and 20% of the whole population lives in poverty nowadays.

[@mingming919]

@@petrairene I agree with most of your statement, while I don’t think it was intentional, it is a bit of a dick move to say most/all British people are responsible for Brexit. Literally almost half of them voted against it, and a lot of Scottish and northern Irish areas had a vast majority voting against the action. I know northern Irish people who’ve experienced generational trauma from the troubles (family members crippled due to IRA car bombs, their children struggling to support them with rising costs of living ), they were not happy to potentially be thrown right back into that sociopolitical issue.

[@Deedee-ee1sg]

Being poor has never stopped women having kids before! What's changed is women have the choice to, whereas in the past women felt they should. It's so much easier today to be child free than in the past.

[@skylinefever]

I sometimes joke about what would have happened if contraception was widely available across history. Humankind would be a fraction of the size it is.

[@webbist]

Me and my partner live in the Yorkshire countryside on a 6 figure joint income and we still don't think we can afford kids. Other people are screwed.

[@asahdo]

The problem is that as a society we don’t respect or value the work of raising children. Stay at home mothers are portrayed as lazy and single mothers attract vitriol. Child-raising isn’t seen as something that contributes to society, despite the fact that there would be no society if people stopped having children. There is a stereotype of the woman who has lots of children in order to stay on benefits and “freeload” off the back of the rest of society. This stereotype has been used to slash support such as child benefits. The struggling working class are berated for “having children they can’t afford”. Instead we need to start treating child-rearing as the work and value that it actually is. People who want to have careers and earn lots of money rather than have children should be free to do so without pressure. People who want to have children and raise those children should be supported just as much as if they were doing any other kind of job.

[@loveaisles8620]

So true

[@therealscot2491]

Single mother produce criminals. Facts.

[@autumnhomer9786]

🎀I agree. When I was working full time everyone kept on asking if I wanted children, if I could have them and if something was wrong with me.🎀 🎀I got married and now have 2 children under 2 but to be able to afford to go this, my husband works and I am a stay at home Mum. As soon as my second child was born, everyone asked.”So are you going back to work? When are you going back to work? Are you ever going back to work?” My children are two and the youngest a month old.🎀 🎀When I was working it was full time in mental health and I did 6 days a week, including night shifts. Very rarely had Christmas with family and was told I should consider having children soon.🎀

[@Lafemmefutile]

Facts. Misogyny and capitalism are at the root of this. I suspect the system always took for granted that women would just put their wombs at its service by churning out new workers for relatively low cost (even if publicly they would be shamed for it). Who knew creating people had a cost and was an investment?

[@VampiraVonGhoulscout]

I've never understood the hate for single mothers. What if they're single because the dad died or he was super violent and she had to leave with her kids for safety? You don't know what happened to her.

[@baggaz167]

The rent is TOO DAMN HIGH 🤣

[@chesterdonnelly1212]

It is but I don't find it funny

[@lindaaih]

We have two and honestly it's the toughest thing because of how things are. We both have to work. I have an above average and what should be a firmly middle class salary, but live no different to my working class parents did. I can put food on the table, keep the kids clothed and warm but that's it. But, I am exhausted because I have to work five days a week, I can't be the mother I want to be and having a disabled child, you see firsthand the huge lack of resources available to support disabled kids and their parents. Doesn't matter how much harder I work, whether I get promoted, the rising cost of living will keep me working class. If you didn't buy your home when prices were reasonable and don't have social housing, you are screwed. Having kids is no longer a choice for so many. I'm grateful I can feed, clothe and keep my kids warm but it's disgusting that on an average or single salary many can't.

[@thevirtuouswoman7172]

Yeah back in the 1950s and earlier; people were having like seven or eight kids easily.. but that also was when just going to see a movie in theaters was like 25 cents

[@horrisnorris6478]

Finance is only part of the issue. Every parent of children under 10 I know in this country is chronically stressed, constantly exhausted, and often depressed. In Britain today it's virtually impossible to maintain a decent standard of mental wellbeing while having young children. When I look at some of my friends who are deciding to have kids I think they're crazy, and it's been really sad to see how hard it's become for them just to cope with day to day life. And when you see the crisis of mental health among so many teenagers - who would want to bring kids up in this country? It's clear that the way our society is set up is really harmful to the wellbeing of both parents and teenagers. I'd like to have kids one day, but not in Britain.

[@chuck1804]

You hit the nail on the head.

[@moorlivingholistic]

You said nothing but facts.

[@benjaminrobinson3842]

Indeed. Take another look at the poll results from 3:18 in the video. Of the fourteen reasons given for not having children, half of them -- like "not having parental instincts" or "the world is overpopulated" -- are not likely to be fixed by new laws or better finances.

[@joshklaver47]

It's impossible to maintain a decent standard of mental wellbeing while having young children period. It isn't just in Britain. Having kids is just horrible everywhere.

[@horrisnorris6478]

@@joshklaver47 It's generally significantly worse in Britain than in places like the Nordic countries, or even more communal cultures where bringing up children is more of a shared responsibility

[@leesh193]

Make raising children and having a family with only 1 parent working be feasible. Only then will you see a rise of birth rates. Because parenthood isn’t about just spitting out babies. It’s making sure you can set your child up for a bright future, and that you are actually there to raise your child (instead of being an overworked husk).

[@soonahero]

I mean, it’s not. Clothe them in an appropriate temperature and feed them sometimes, then wait. That’s most of parenting

[@Mic_Glow]

Can have 2 parents working but daycare must be affordable.

[@kopiec6565]

​@@soonahero so having clothed a 1 or 2 year old you can leave them on their own in the house for 8 hours a day, as long as you leave them a bowl of food? Great parenting. Maybe get a vasectomy before something unfortunate happens.

[@cquarman]

Thank you for saying this. The gov seem to have entirely forgotten the importance of relationships and attachment for children. They aren't little robots to be raised by institutions from babyhood. All very Brave New World (or was it 1984, I forget which one dispensed with parenthood entirely).

[@paulgibbon5991]

@@soonahero This poster has no children.

[@cupidslover3]

I always wanted kids, but for one reason or another, it never happened and it used to make me quite sad until I had an enlightenment (aged around 40). Now in my early 40s I'm grateful as most of my peers who waited til their mid to late thirties are all exhausted and skint. I think it's more difficult than ever and unfortunately not like when our parents and grandparents had kids. I know they bring a lot of joy but there are also perks to not having kids. There's a blissful freedom that I wouldn't want to lose now!

[@luckymel7335]

Who you trying to convince us or you? You will have your freedom at the cost of loneliness

[@evilds3261]

@@luckymel7335It is better to be lonely than surrounded by negative people like yourself. Everyone has their own preferences - some people thrive in solitude and others would perish in busy communities.

[@thomasranjit7781]

You made a big error because you thought tomorrow will be like today and so forth, but that is not true, when you get old and grumpy with no children around to say at least a hi to you the reality of not having children will bite you.

[@evilds3261]

@@thomasranjit7781So what? Everyone has their preference, and children are more effort than they're worth.

[@LadyMarigoldWithers]

Enjoy your freedom! I never wanted kids but used to feel ashamed of it due to social pressure. No more! Stuff ‘em lol.

[@linajimenez1027]

If many of us struggle just to pay the rent for a room, it is not possible to look forward for having a child.

[@smada36]

There's a lot more to it than just the cost of childcare. People are living with their parents longer now and that's not conducive to starting a family. More people are staying single longer, or in relationships they consider to be short term. And what's the point in having a child? If you are both at work around ten hours a day, six days a week, someone else will spend more time with your kid than you will. And with the way the future looks... Who would bring a child into this wicked world? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@alexpotts6520]

"This wicked world" is better than the world into which 99% of all humans in history were born. If bringing up a child today is wrong, then almost all childbirth in history (including your direct ancestors) is wrong. It's a deeply misanthropic sentiment.

[@smada36]

@@alexpotts6520 Firstly, I didn't say that this world was any better or worse than previously in history. What I will say is that we are more informed now and can made decisions on what we are told. Secondly, I never said that having a child is wrong. However, it is sensible to look at the long term financial situation rather than have the child now and worry about how to pay the bills later. But you are right. I do feel that we are more misanthropic now than we ever have been. We are far too quick to forget that people posting comments are human beings with feelings and we attack opinions that are different to our own, not with respect but with a lack of empathy. And who would want to risk exposing their child to that kind of disconnected bullying?

[@alexpotts6520]

@@smada36 Yes, we are more informed and can make decisions based on what we are told. And what we are told is that the world is better now than it ever has been. If you don't want to have kids, that's fine. If you want kids but feel your personal circumstances don't allow it, then that's heartbreaking. But if you want kids but think you shouldn't because the world is going to hell in a handcart, then I'm sorry that's ridiculous. I mean, really? Bullying? Bullying has been around forever. I'm sure your parents at some point wondered whether their kids would be bullied, but it didn't stop them having you, did it?

[@petrairene]

@@alexpotts6520 Yes, but in those 99% of history, the life circumstances were child friendly because most work was done at home, where the family was large so someone always had time to look after the youngest ones. Plus, older children were even needed to help out with work at the farm or family business. so the kids fit into the lifestyle of families and became productive much much earlier than today. I mean, we humans have the menopause, exactly because it frees grandparents to look after grandkids while doing lighter work at home.

[@labt8194]

so just give up then? your ancestors fought for thousands of years for your genes to carry on. Where there's a will there's a way.

[@Herbaling]

Classic, the government (and that applies to any government) is perfectly aware of the root cause for falling birthrate, but they opt to slap a band aid on a gunshot wound and call it a day.

[@TH3YGXNE]

Slap on the bandaid and shoot it again. That’s the Tory strategy

[@blindbrad4719]

Even more classic, passing the promise on to the next government when the Conservatives are unlikely to be in power.

[@odenoki9571]

Just bring in more refugees/immigrants. It's obvious that has been their solution. Once Britain has been balkanised along the lines of race. Then they'll realise the harm they've done. A frightening large proportion of refugees hate their host country. They hate our whiteness. Our cities aren't safe anymore. They'll keep lying to us and exclaim that immigration isn't linked with the rise of crime.

[@AliBhai-sl8gc]

60% of men between 18-30 are now single, lonely, incels

[@gabrielmartinez2455]

People in the US can barely afford life without children, let alone with kids. I have one, and done for good.

[@jagz888]

Child care services reduce the quality of parenting creating a new set of issues, The fix comes from a single salary being sufficient to buy houses like it was in the past.

[@TheMadJoker87]

"we dont make enough money to sustain ourselves, so having kids is out of the question, some of us even have two jobs and cant even afford the lifestyle the previous generation had" -"oh, dont worry, we' re giving you some extra daycare for your kids so you can work even more hours a week" ...yeah, good luck with that

[@asiongsalonga770]

Families used to live on 1 income in a household. Now everything is so expensive even 2 incomes in a household is really hard.

[@bombkangaroo]

Wow, the people at the bottom of the pyramid scheme realised they were getting screwed and started bailing? Who could have seen that coming? :P

[@carnifaxx]

We have quite a lot of children and when they were little, we were convinced that at this time, once they are all teenagers, we would have like 2 or 3 more. There's no way this is happening, though. We are actually sorry for the ones we already have. The planet is overcrowded, various systems are on the verge of collapse. The financial issues are bothering, but we are also basically hostages of the government and schools etc. I'm SO tired. I completely understand that people don't have children for sake of those children.

[@whatsupchannel3047]

The biggest problem is parents want to parent their children themselves not have to use child care! They sadly have lost the basic right to be at home for their children if they choose to . The bills come first not their children! That's why in my opinion.

[@thebee6142]

Bang on

[@beigenegress2979]

I agree! I live in the 🇺🇸, and the schools here are so horrifying I’d need to home-school to have a child!

[@RipMinner]

Keep saying if people want to work all day long and not raise there kids. Why would they have kids to begin with?

[@lorirose76]

Completely agree with this!

[@akiraraiku]

Spend all your waking hours in commute and the wage cage you slave. You will have to pay for your children to be sent to wage slaver factories : government schools, while you are far away from your little ones. Truly, being an artisan in the countryside must be better, you can have your children train at your workshop, spending more time with them. The cost of living is also more affordable, and there are far less foreigners.

[@johnhawkins5314]

"Don't have children if you can't afford them" "Ok" "Why aren't you having children?" "because we can't afford them"

[@john_doe_not_found]

Child care isn't the biggest reason people do not have kids. If you do have kids, putting your kids into the hands of strangers is a bit nerve wracking. Having one adult who doesn't care a bit about your kid, look after a group of 5+ kids, is not a good outcome. Worst case, you get neglect and horror stories of dead children. Best case, you get kids who crave attention from their actual parents, whom they only see in the morning and at bedtime. The government is focused on getting parents to continue to be workers, instead of trying to make society affordable enough for parents to work less. Housing - unaffordable Wages - not keeping up with inflation Jobs - 90% of the job shortages are in jobs nobody wants, because they do not pay enough to live in the area they are located.

[@john_doe_not_found]

In the 1950s, a single income was enough to raise a family. Housing was more affordable (4x annual salary vs today 9x annual salary). Surprise, Britain had a Baby Boom. So the recipe for growth is well known, the government just refuses to do it.

[@skylinefever]

@@john_doe_not_found Yes, the rich want all the benefits of a higher birth rate without any expenses. People have gone on strike. The current serfs will not give feudal lords more serfs.

[@NashHinton]

The government needs to give it up. Nobody wants kids in this world.

[@scottdunn7454]

I'm 30 and feel I have come into adulthood at the wrong time to be able to have children. We should be encouraging couples to have kids but it seems everything is against us. Me and my wife both work fulltime trying to build a life and having a child would result in us struggling financially for many years to come. Just feels hopeless in the current climate

[@ismailmehdi266]

I do not understand white culture. As a Muslim we emphasise family greatly. That’s probably why in the coming years white people will be outbred by Muslims (Asians)

[@esmegemini9257]

Agreed

[@bm5_5_5]

I feel you.

[@joshklaver47]

Exactly, so why bring children into this mess? The cost of living is only going to get worse for them.

[@AliBhai-sl8gc]

60% of men between 18-30 are now single, lonely, incels

[@davidastle1316]

Since childcare is massively expensive and the people providing all the childcare are underpaid then where is all the money going?

[@Mousse9]

Lemme guess: bonuses for the CEO’s for “record profits”.

[@alexpotts6520]

​@@Mousse9 An obvious answer; too obvious if anything. Part of the problem, at least in the UK which this video is about, is that there are mandated childcare ratios - I think it's something like one adult nursery worker per four children, minimum. There are a lot of staff to pay. When you're paying for 30 hours a week that means that before any other costs, you're paying for 7.5 hours of nursery worker which is already a lot of money. (And of course nurseries have plenty of other running costs besides just child-minding staff.) Then if you've got two kids, that's double etc. And childcare being largely split up by region makes it worse; London and other wealthier parts of the country used to subsidise the poorer parts but now they can't. Sure, shareholders are doubtless taking a percentage, I don't know much. A rule of thumb seems to be that the average business's profit margin is about 10%, though obviously it varies. Well if you took all that evil profit away, the bills could be 10% cheaper, which would surely be welcome but the bills would still be absolutely enormous.

[@talete7712]

​@@Mousse9 the CEOs of small childcare facilities? They are probably small business owners that struggle to pay rent like everyone else. Having a business doesn't mean being rich and small childcare facilities certainly don't have CEOs

[@CGDW2]

Also high rent lol. Just the good old land owners taking their cut.

[@chesterdonnelly1212]

It's actually not that the childcare is expensive. It's that people's wages are not very high, and cost of living is high, so it seems like childcare is expensive. It's unaffordable rather than expensive.

[@riccccccardo]

Childcare costs in the uk are a big joke for decades not sorted out by governments! How can spending more then half your pay per month be justified? £800-£1000 per month for childcare so most women say better to stay at home bond with the child rather then spend that money. Not to mention bills and higher cost of living and uk companies not giving pay rises even close to inflation. They think a 4% offer is good! 😢

[@cas1652]

I am a father of two, with the third in the oven. We are fortunate to be able to make it work. We are from Germany but the problem is everywhere the same I think. Here are my top reasons why we won't have more kids and what the reasons for the birthrate problem are. We are too old. Why are we too old? Well I at least spent my twenties living like a teenager because this society is all about hedonism. It took me a long while to discover the values needed to be where I am now and I had to do it with very little help. My society doesn't like children. Everyone says they do but they don't really. Everyone treats children like a burden either to be pawned off to some institution or family member or annoyance to be bribed into being quiet. When you are young, people tell you that being a young parent is the end of the world. If you listen to society, there is never a good time to have children. The state is too greedy. I have an excellent salary and my wife has a profitable small business that she kept running throughout. Still we struggle with money mainly because whenever you earn money the government taxes it three different ways. The government is actually insane. Every year there is a new hare brained scheme sure to make our life difficult in some dimension and that's on top of the rampant dysfunction cropping up all over the place. Even the stuff that used to work, like the excellent kindergarten my first daughter went to, is now closed off to my second daughter because my government has to cure the world by taking in all the refugees. Energy prices are insane. Food prices are insane. Housing prices are insane. Public safety is deteriorating. All because of crazy policies. When does it stop? Nobody knows why they should have kids in the first place. Nobody has the confidence that they can handle kids if they have them. Nobody knows how they can pay for having the kids. We fcked our culture and then we fcked our economy and people biggest worry is a flu and the weather in 50 years.

[@user-je7db7bi7i]

Everything you mentioned are as they are bc of the existence of males.

[@cliffsofmoher4220]

But uk has a child limit law meaning you can't have more than 2 kids

[@KathyClysm]

As one of these exact women that has chosen to not have kids, for me honestly it isn't just the cost, it's kind of a matter of hope. At the moment, it feels like everything is going downhill, the world is becoming more unstable, more extremist, there is crisis after crisis, nothing is really being done about climate change or cost of living or the NHS or anything really. So for me, not only can I not afford to have children because I work long hours just to feed and house myself, I also feel like my hypothetical children would grow up in one of the worst times in modern history. Now do I honestly think we are looking at a situation worse than after the World Wars? No, but I also do not at all feel confident that the world my hypothetical children would inherit would actually be a good place to live.

[@mxbrOkEnChiCc]

This comment makes me feel so much better about my choice of not having children. I feel like I'm doing the planet a favour with this choice as well as saving these hypothetical children from having to go through such difficult times and crises.

[@juliedearlove8098]

Exactly! What kind of world do we want for children? Not the one we have now !!

[@nsoul4296]

Sorry to hear that Kathy. I honestly think we should have kids as kids are the future. If we bring up kids to have integrity, be strong in body and mind, be truthful and righteous, then the world can change for the better. I agree that the financial cost of having kids has been a big turn off for a lot of couples. Should have implemented 2 year maternity pay years ago and 2-4 years old free child care. One wonders if all that EU Labour made the powers that be kick the can down the road.

[@myribunt5261]

Also choosing not to have children. And we 100% agree with you. I'm so worried about the NHS :( and people can't even vote without photo ID etc just too much bad for my hypothetical children. Nope, don't want that for them.

[@Ashtarot77]

@@mxbrOkEnChiCc You shouldn't feel bad about not having kids anyway. It's your choice. People who nag you to have them are not the ones who have to support the child mentally, emotionally and financially. It's easy to tell someone how to do a job when they're not the ones doing it.

[@hockysa]

As someone whose left the UK this month. The crazy part is not only the childcare ridiculously expensive the fact that we need to pay it from our net income after tax making it even more expensive again. It’s the reason we left the UK, we couldn’t afford a second child. Our son was born in England but childcare costs were as much as another mortgage. We’ve now moved to Spain, childcare is only a third of what we used to pay, cost of living is lower.

[@chuck1804]

I'm curious what wages are like in Spain relative to cost of living? The pound will go a long way there, but pre-brexit many Spanish natives were migrating to the UK for a better living wage.

[@hockysa]

@@chuck1804 so wages are significantly lower coming from London, like possibly even close to half comparing average incomes. If you can maintain a UK income and move here that would be ideal, for both having a higher income and the GBP being 15% more than the Euro right now. There's a community of British retirees in Spain for that reason. Also so far it seems like tax funded services seem to work so much better here, London always left me with a feeling of what am I even paying taxes for?? That makes sense too, depending on what income bracket you're in and what you're trying to achieve it would make sense for people to seek opportunity in the UK. When I first moved to London I was paid so little to survive on but got opportunities in the tech which weren't as available back home. My now wife did the same moving to Dublin then London for the sake of better opportunities. London was great for that and built the experience but now that we're more established and an opportunity presented itself it was time to move again. sorry long post

[@chickenmadness1732]

Good for you. I'll be leaving the country in a few years as well.

[@jamespawson6045]

@@chuck1804most of those people migrating to the UK come back to Spain. The wuality of life is just better here, wages are lower, cost of living is a bit lower, but overall, it’s just a much better life. I’ve lived in Spain for 8 years.

[@xUzi786]

@@chickenmadness1732 me too, uk is failed society

[@Erintii]

People don't have kids as they don't have to. There are other options. I am happy that I am not and never be mother. I would be bitter, angry mother. This I knew since I was six. There are people who can be happy in traditional roles and those who can't. I don't see any benefits to in a role of economic slave forced to have sex and have kids but other don't want to leave home and kids. Traveling, pursuing hobbies, building relationships based on mutual love, respect and loyalty it all compete with traditional roles and parenthood. People don't see reasons to sacrifice lives for infant. Finally now sex goes without crying and poop making price tag.

[@invisibelle7590]

Kids cant even get affordable housing, rents are ridiculous, food is ridiculous, the companies are rolling in money. Why would anyone want kids right now? Sort the country out and stop giving money away to the rich and they might feel more inclined to do so.

[@danielbickford3458]

So far as I understand it, the UK government wants people to have kids, but only so that they'll be more workers down the road, and then they want to provide childcare for those workers and their kids so instead of the parents taking care of the kids some teacher will thereby freeing them up to go back to work. I can't be the only one who sees some issues with this.

[@gillb9222]

Exactly, they just want more minimum wage slaves to pay taxes and make them and their mates richer. We are literally used as a resource for making the rich richer, that's all they see us as.

[@Sam-ug4xt]

They dont care about us. They literally see us as useless eaters or working eaters.

[@Efusco97]

💯💯💯💯💯👍🏻

[@CordeliaWagner]

Capitalism. It's NOT about caring for the elder.

[@robertagren9360]

Debt is never paid. People die and when that happened the economy skyrocket. You don't want to admit that money is earned by people dying and people can't die if no more are being born. Covid was financially great until it stopped.

[@sharelletaylor7619]

Honestly the government have run the UK into the ground. The quality of life is miserable, no way I want to be broke, work loads and then have a child. I recently moved to Australia and can't explain how much better life is. Salaries are actually fair (double what I was earning in the UK). There isn't an energy crisis, cost of living crisis etc. There is always a crisis with this govt in power🤦🏾‍♀️

[@mattdog1982]

The salaries may be double, but are the prices double too? I have a friend who lives there and I cannot believe the prices he quotes me for things. HOWEVER you do have the weather and the space. Every credit to you.

[@mkuc6951]

Sorry I call BS. My parents moved to Melbourne in the 90's and bought a house for $88,000. Their street is averaged at 1.5~ million now. Salaries have no kept up anything close to rents. If you're not making 100k + you and a partner you can't afford an average property anymore. I was making around 65000 which is pretty standard. By the time I saved 20k houses inflated in value another 20k.

[@SynchroM3h]

@@mkuc6951 You are right. I was in Aus for a year. Housing is quite tight due to lack of supply so similar issue. Salaries aren't double but I was being paid more for the same role / job than in the UK. Food has gone up but not as much as Australia make a lot of their own produce. Overall, it's better but it's not perfect. Then it becomes lifestyle choice. P.S Sydney is like London. Most populated so everything is more exp compared to other cities.

[@Efusco97]

@@mkuc6951 if you live in a certain suburbs outside of Perth you can get a 4 bed house with a pool and garden for around $300,000 :’) which is so cheap as it equates to £161,000 :’)

[@mkuc6951]

@@Efusco97 that's not bad. Sydney and Melbourne have become a joke. It's more difficult to move if you have a family though, way better for singles. I enjoyed Perth it's very relaxed and a pretty city. Found it pretty alarming that Mark McGowan shut out the rest of the world from WA for 2 years.

[@zoemoody6903]

We put the greatest burden of having kids on women, and women are the bottleneck--can't have offspring without them. Not so surprising that women are hesitant to put their careers and ability to support themselves and their kids at risk (the guy can always hare off and leave her to raise children alone). Men can have kids without taking a career or financial hit; women cannot. If this isn't addressed, the problem can't be solved.

[@yolanbravo9628]

Makes perfect sense. Babies are too expensive and they take up too much time. Time that our busy work life does not allow... we are also not paid enough to take care of ourselves and a child. We have made society so busy that were cutting off our own nose to spite your faces

[@dariusalexandru9536]

Goverment:Make more children ! Citizen:I can t afford to pay for my basic necessities . Goverment:C'mon you are making me look bad .

[@cliffsofmoher4220]

Why can't the government just Import them from other countries like Nigeria or India where there is loads of people it's simple as that

[@cliffsofmoher4220]

@Tracchofyre I mean the it's more expensive om the government for us to have children like the government will have to pay for their school and their child benefits but if bring someone in from Nigeria all you need to do is pay for their plane ticket that's it

[@heyshawty6946]

​@Cliffs of Moher no they will bring more problmes like culture differences and crimes

[@cliffsofmoher4220]

@Biggest d making more babies will make the earth overpopulated and we won't have any resources left besides the UK government has made a 2 child policy which dose now even allow parents to have more than 2 kids

[@Whackpacky]

Government should lower taxes to increase our net income. That would help.

[@scottfree9517]

I’m a woman without kids because I just don’t want them. I have no idea how people who do though could afford them.

[@dermeisterdesspiegels3518]

And then you'll get ostracised by the "wise ones" for being pro-abortion and responsibil, right? (I'm with you on this one if you didn't get it)

[@r.1.336]

@@dermeisterdesspiegels3518 where did abortion come from

[@chico9805]

​@@r.1.336 They can't miss out on any opportunity to gloat about killing children.

[@alicec.6195]

I can't afford RENTING a 2 bedroom house anymore, let alone buying one at the age of 33. Sounds like the perfect time to have a baby!

[@chriser3753]

I can't even afford 2 bedrooms never mind a CHILD?! What am I supposed to do? Let it sleep in the bath?

[@Droxal]

In Canada, the average cost of a 1-bedroom rent has officially reached $2000 across the country. Look at specific cities, such as Vancouver, and the rate has reached $2800. The average monthly wage in Vancouver is around $5048.2. So, to afford even a one-bedroom at an average salary, you are looking at spending 55% of your pre-tax income. It's pretty easy to understand why most young people can't afford a baby on top of the cost of housing.

[@johnlesoudeur3653]

That is why Trudeau wants to keep mass immigration going...competition means cheaper labour costs and higher housing demand.

[@Droxal]

@@johnlesoudeur3653 I don't disagree with premise that immigration means cheaper labor and higher housing demand .. because it is true. But just know that no other federal party (including the conservatives) plan to change anything about mass immigration ... and neither party plans to fix housing costs. We are really stuck with this forever it seems

[@claudiojaramillo5177]

Housing is unaffordable for most, having a baby is unaffordable for most

[@jadesamantha3087]

I mean I wouldn't really want to have a kid in a country where girls get cat called whilst walking to school in their school uniform, or where knife crime is so high, or where the police force has many abusers working for them, or where thousands sleep rough on the streets, or where many line up for food banks as they can't afford food. Not exactly the best environment to bring a child up in...

[@barb6725]

Literally every country in the world on this planet earth…

[@nebhalabir1201]

Uk turning into weimar germany

[@Gypsy5042]

Bruh girls will always get fawned over

[@xneutralgodx]

The destruction of small business is what I blame , land ownership and resources are also what gives the finances to have kids

[@kaplazma6748]

More and more don't want kids - could just be that simple. Many of us watched our parents struggle and they had a better environment, pay, rent etc, to raise in. Not really that suprised to be honest.

[@SamuelBlack84]

I don't want the responsibility, it's as simple as that. The only person I care about is me

[@tainoroyal6585]

Yes this, the government needs to be shifting it's financial models away from broken 1930s models of "more humans! more consumption!" (otherwise known as GDP) towards a steady state economy. It needs to start shifting people from pointless polluting industries and offering real incentives to the public to train as carers nurses and doctors. And to provide people already working working in those fields with massive pay rises. It needs to crack down on the big parasite corporations that keep dodging their tax bills

[@evilds3261]

When people call me selfish for not having kids, I simply agree with them because I am a capitalist, and I will not do something if it is not profitable. It's funny how corporations and institutions are praised or allowed to engage in capitalistic policies, but once I follow in their footsteps, they seem to shun me. How cute - like I ever cared or valued their opinion. All I care about are facts, and opinions are not facts, but rather, assumptions. Capitalism is all about self-interest. I'm just following the example those in power have given us. They lay off workers like nothing, I refuse to provide them with workers to replace the workers they laid off. It's no different. I wonder how expensive it would be for governments if they had to pay people in advance before they would produce even a single child for them - just how much money would a couple demand before they would agree to produce an offspring for the government?

[@Malisteen]

japan, us, uk. anywhere having this problem has the same underlying factors. too much work for too little pay, too little public support for health care, child care, education.

[@jeffsmith3392]

My Dad worked full time and his wages paid all bills including their mortgage. Mum brought up my older sister and me. Now mums and dads both need to work and they now have no disposable income.

[@applescruff1969]

I was working TWO jobs at one point and STILL couldn't even rent an apartment somewhere. How in the goddamn am I supposed to have a kid in an economy like that?

[@spef7396]

As a 23 year old I really want to raise a family one day, but if I can never own a home I don't know how I can start thinking about doing that. While renting, almost half of income is extracted from workers and given to landlords. It's not just capitalism but it has definately contributed to the slow rotting of our county. Every year I more seriously consider just getting up and leaving.

[@BeautifulEarthJa]

You can leave, so why not?

[@robertjones2053]

The landlord argument is bs. A lot of landlords are millennial or gen z as they use it for a pension pot as private pensions are non existent for millennial/gen z professionals. The main rent issue for millennial/gen Z was the ideology of go to uni, do a grad scheme somewhere trendy, do a gap year and then get a good job with your useless degree. (All happened but the get a good job part) the problem with our generation is overly high expectations of career, housing and lifestyle. Plus the fact they do not start earning till 22/23 years old and even then expect to be a manager in 2 years. We moan if we can't have the heating on 21 degrees but my parents first house in 1986 didn't even have central heating. Etc 😂😂 and my parents started work in a rubish job at 16 and studied and worked at the same time. If we lived the same lifestyle as the 1980s you would soon save got a house. Buy in season veg. No heating. 1 car per house. Live in couples. No new clothes. Takeaways or just eat. Free view box vs sky, Netflix and prime etc all adds up... 😂 Fyi I was born in 1994.

[@CobbsCorner]

Leave bro, I did and don't regret it

[@chickenmadness1732]

Just leave bro. I'm doing it too. I'm going to move to Japan once I have the means to do so (tbh I already have the means to do so but I'm thinking long term with early retirement in mind too). I'm 28 and have managed to save up £80k by living with my parents since graduating. Nearly ALL of my income is saved right now as I barely spend money on anything. I don't even spend money on food because there is a church near me that gives away free out of date food that couldn't be sold at supermarkets. My only expense is my phone bill and my dad's 20 year old hand-me-down car which has extremely cheap insurance due to it's age. I'm going to buy a house, rent it out and use that income as a safety net for when I'm living abroad. Think about it hard, come up with a sensible plan and execute it. You're younger than me so you have plenty of time. Move back in with your parents, make sacrifices and secure a better future.

[@Kikiconsilience]

Leave when you have a chance! This country is doomed

[@Drunkenmeows]

I just arrived back to the UK from living in Korea, with our 2 year old whom was born there, where birth-rates are absolutely rock-bottom. Not only do they give you 1,000,000 KRW (660GBP) for baby related doctors/hospital visits upon a positive pregnancy but they also give you 300,000 KRW per month for each child and 7am to 6pm day-care is completely free and subsidised. Add on to this the great health care system and accessibility to it (no appointments needed for anything... seriously). They still haven't made any change in their birth-rates. How doesn't Britain do the same when, in comparison to a country like Korea, which has good infrastructure, services, health care, transport, education, housing and roads. Everything here has been left rot and fester.

[@edwardharris5301]

why come back here then?

[@Drunkenmeows]

@@edwardharris5301 Trust me, I think that on a daily basis... 🤡

[@Hero-wc6gq]

Korea's property prices are high, a man can't afford a house and family over there. If a man can't provide, he's not going to ask a women in marriage. And most women are already so picky and will reject the average guy. Correct me if i'm wrong.

[@akiraraiku]

Simple, good education to invest in industry, to actually produce things of value and not wind like the UK's financial sector. Then they use an interventionist 'developer State' model to aid companies and protect their local market from outside trade. Also no immigration, thus high social trust and no wage undercutting. All this helps. Though even with that they can"t bring the birth rates higher. Perhaps Pol Pot was right, we need to return to the countryside.

[@mauriciohiure2192]

well it's not like it's working well for the south koreans tho lol

[@nicolahodgson2395]

So they are making it more affordable to have kids, but only so you can work longer hours, and never see your kids..... gotchya

[@JimboJohnsy]

If you're looking to develop stables foundations for your family, the costs are just insurmountable for young people in their 20s. The cost to get married, the cost for a mortgage deposit, ever increasing cost of living. Even on reasonably good jobs its just not financially viable

[@user-yn2mi2dk1h]

I'm 25. I've been in my parents temporary housing accomodation for over 10 years, technically homeless. In that time I became chronically ill, and can't get effective physical health or mental health support. I've jumped through countless hoops through the NHS to improve my physical health and still push through exercising 6 days a week despite the agony of my chronic pain and fatigue that leaves me bedridden for almost 20 hours a day. I can't afford private health care. I'm on a 30 month waiting list for mental health support. I couldn't get housing support from my local council, and I barely get any money on benefits. Our electric bill doubled from around £90 to £180 overnight just today. And they expect me to have children??????????????

[@Manwasgehtab]

Wow it must be hard for you to not get the help you need. I wish you the best. Keep fighting :) I hope it will get better for you in the future.

[@AliBhai-sl8gc]

60% of men between 18-30 are now single, lonely, incels

[@user-yn2mi2dk1h]

@@Manwasgehtab Thank you so much for your kind words. I wish you well too.

[@jooseppielleese7156]

@@AliBhai-sl8gc why are you spamming this?

[@AliBhai-sl8gc]

@Jooseppi Elleese is it spam or is it reality?

[@SquallChaos]

A friend of mine had twins with special needs. They were on a wait list for special needs support for 3 years. 3 YEARS. And they didn't even get the legally required care hours for another 2. If only they had the money to sue the council, but y'know, cost of living crisis :shrug:

[@sunscreenhoarder6558]

I think the term you’re looking for is “neurodivergent” (and that’s a very wide umbrella of conditions so it’s usually best to refer to the condition you mean specifically since “neurodivergent” has become euphemistic and overall harmful to the disabled community as a term) but then again find me a teenager that isn’t neurodivergent in some capacity in this day and age. Most seem to have anxiety at the very least and it’s outrageous that people are surprised by it. No fucking shit the kids aren’t alright, look at the world they’ve been brought into

[@MrDAVIDGBJONES]

​@@sunscreenhoarder6558nothing wrong with the term special needs, i was born with my feet facing the wrong way round and classed as having special needs. As in i had needs other children my age did not. The term special needs actually makes sense and is actually a polite way of putting it.

[@sunscreenhoarder6558]

@@MrDAVIDGBJONES the original comment didn't use special needs. Can't remember what it was exactly now but I think they used "mentally divergent". Besides, my point still stands about it generally being considered harmful to use euphemisms rather than straight up discussing the disability in question. Edit: you can see they've edited their comment and just not acknowledged that they've edited their comment.

[@ladyeowyn42]

5 years is a very short waitlist in many American states.

[@melitajay]

@@sunscreenhoarder6558 Mentally divergent and neurodivergent are essentially synonyms so I don't really see what the problem is.

[@ggamer041]

With the increase in house prices, childcare and student loan payments if you want to even entertain reaching a 40k+ salary. It is no surprise that women are having less children. Also factor in the Government not adapting education to fulfil 21st century jobs and allowing permanent jobs to be filled using zero hour contracts, which creates financial instability. There is also the breakdown of families and the next to useless child maintenance agency. One child is manageable, two or more only in an extremely committed relationship, which is both emotionally and financially secure.

[@Natttttttttt]

I’m a 31 year old woman lived in London all my life, no kids. Only working class/poor people in London have kids earlier than that, to do otherwise will make your life financially more difficult, if you care about your career and future you won’t have kids til about 35-36 normally. nothing they do will change this

[@Autistic365]

And when the child is 10 you die and leave all those money you gain to the government:😅) very smart

[@Natttttttttt]

@@Autistic365 are you like 12 years old or just dumb? Human beings generally live til 80-100 bro. My mum is 67 now, do the math on when she had me. She’s still healthy and going strong too

[@thetau123]

Kids are really expensive, add in the cost of living crisis and exorbitant rent, and there ain't much left in the kitty at the end of the month before you even add in kids. On top of that, this is normal, countries birth rates do seem to drop and trend towarss replacement as they become more developed, for various reasons. The problem is that society seems to be built on an idea of perpetual growth, and thats clearly not realistic but no doubt "just a problem for the future governments, we can just ignore it" but it seems our chickens are coming home to roost.

[@Bushflare]

I think that's just cope. We've imported millions and millions of people from places with high birth rates and when they get here they still have more children than the average Briton, even though they're generally pretty low on the economic ladder. If people want kids they can have kids. The problem is we live in a society which does nothing to teach people the benefits and responsibilities of parenthood and we don't emphasise the implicit responsibility of living in such a good civilisation... namely you're responsible for maintaining and continuing it. People could and should be having more kids but that's just not recognised for the problem it is when you can just import foreigners by the millions to make up the numbers.

[@Rampart.X]

The solution is more immigration.

[@alexpotts6520]

Don't disagree with your assessment on how brutal living standards are, but to suggest that "perpetual growth" is a problem? Boy, I would love some growth right now!

[@blablup1214]

@@Bushflare I think you are right. I wouldn't know what benifits there are. Beeing a parent is really hard work and totally expensive.... I think that is wrong. : "namely you're responsible for maintaining and continuing it." If government would want you to have more children it should take care of them. Why is governement only caring about the old people that are about to kick in the bucked....

[@Bushflare]

@@alexpotts6520 You can get pills for that.

[@usvalve]

We seem to have accepted that it's the norm for both parents to go out to work, and childcare to be outsourced. However good the childcare may be, is this what we want the famiily to be like?

[@autumnhomer9786]

🎀Brilliant question, I wish this was highlighted and had more likes.🎀

[@Anikat]

This is what I've thought for years. People just give their kids to strangers to raise. I appreciate the economic reasons for it, but I would not be at all happy with such a situation for my own family.

[@joshklaver47]

I want my family to be childfree.

[@marcusr3795]

Very underrated comment

[@CordeliaWagner]

A lot of people see having children as a duty and are happy to get rid of them as ling as possible.

[@ryugurena3327]

The human population is growing every single day. What shortage of babies??

[@antoniomoreira9787]

no house, no babies

[@chrisoz4929]

Social housing; give people who can’t afford to buy/rent, a place to live. Provide affordable child care, don’t financially punish parents for one of them wanting to care for their child and not work. Yes, not every parent wants to work while their children are young

[@bluegoose7832]

If both parents refuse to work, why should recourses be wasted on providing for them? At least one of the parents should work. Handing them a free home is essentially enabling laziness. Housing is a massive issue, but simply building more houses is sufficient. We don't need to start handing out houses for those that don't want to work. Their plight is self-inflicted. If not being able to afford to rent is an issue, and neither of you work, maybe one of you should get a job like literally every other household does.

[@llanieliowe794]

@left_blank because if no body has kids, then the economy will collapse and the situation for young people will get even worse

[@Rampart.X]

All the housing and hotel accommodation has been given to refugees. You don't need to have children when they come to you from overseas.

[@Mr-Bean.]

​@@unknown_name_389We should also get rid of the emergency services while we're at it then. If you want to put out a house fire you should sort it yourself.

[@jerven1128]

@left_blank then you can expect them to not have kids?

[@Lulusnotreadyforthis]

Millennial here - I did choose to have kids *but* not until I was in my 30s. We were indeed bombarded with ''don't have kids unless you can afford it!" message and sadly, for most people, a family with 2 or 3 kids remains unaffordable. We have a serious shortage of decent housing, and we don't value stay at home parents at all. So banks have been allowed to get greedy and demand 2 full-time wages to get a mortgage. Couple that with some of the world's most expensive childcare, which negates the second income and puts that elusive mortgage out of reach, and well you can see why many either don't have kids or stop at one.

[@xxxalexxx309]

I'd also consider looking into how much women get on statutory maternity pay per month.... I can't afford to lose £1,500 per month to go on maternity leave ...

[@calliekate8322]

It doesn’t matter about the policies anymore people are not having kids everywhere due to a whole bunch of factors. If you can not make it on your own why on earth would you bring a kid into this mess of a situation?