THE ULTIMATE HUMANKIND TIER LIST | Humankind's Early Modern Era Cultures

[@Renamatic]

Since doing the lunar new year event, and playing them many times, I have a new found love for the Ming. It’s a good stability and influence boost in the late mid game. ^.^

[@pdraggy]

And it gives POSITIVE stability (+2 when you pick the Zhou) it's highly underrated.

[@JumboPixel]

Yeah, it’s especially useful on maps where you don’t have access to luxuries for stability!

[@ThornySubject]

Hi Jumbo! I've been steadily working my way through your 39-video-strong Humankind Game Guides YT playlist. Thank you for the time and effort you've put into all these, and your obvious enthusiasm means it's impossible to get bored, even binge-watching them! I do think I'm getting hooked on the game, and feel I have a better understanding of some of its subtleties now.

[@JumboPixel]

Amazing to hear John! I'm really glad you're enjoying it!

[@doddilbert]

Not sure if this is a recent update, but the Dutch can place v.o.c. warehouses next to harbors now, provided the harbor is built first. Dutch a solid a/b in most games as money remains relevant to the end of the game and they are a money powerhouse.

[@BrunoCarvalhoPaula]

Ottomans and Spanish on D? You grossly underestimate their units, as being able to move and shoot in E.Modern is HUGE (Arquebusiers and Musketeers can only move OR shoot).

[@JumboPixel]

Agree to disagree here! But I wouldn’t say you’ve grossly under or overestimated anything. Not my call. I consider the unit to generally be less important than traits and districts that last forever and aren’t superseded by anything better. Units are weighted lower. Oh, and also a quick edit if anyone is interested in my though processes rather than focusing on one example. I also tend to apply negative multipliers if the unit is: A. Outclassed or too similar to a default unit B. Too expensive or heavy resource requirements C. unlocked too late in the era, D. and how necessary it is for a culture to use it and whether it tends to favour aggression, defence, or neither.

[@Rob99311]

​I think it is probably a difference in playstyle. If you are relatively peaceful with building and trading, then D tier is fair. However if you are behind and looking to play catchup by cutting down the snowballing leader, then Ottomans is probably one of the best picks. Being able to move and fire so early on in the era allows you to either stomp someone that is at the same tech level as you or hold your own against the next era unit like line infantry (which would stomp other cultures, outside of Mughals and Spanish). A quick note about that; the production cost of the janissary is 970 and 2 pop. Line infantry (the first move and fire regular infantry unit) is 1290 production and 4 pop. Janissary is also half the upkeep of a line infantry (you should never upgrade your janissaries to line infantry). In a city fight, the strength comparison is 47 vs 47. Need to beat a humankind difficulty ai that is an entire era ahead and has line infantry? The janissary army is your answer. The bonus to strength to essentially all city fighting is pretty good and is not a niche ability. Most fights should involve a city by this era and if you picked Ottomans, then all of your fights should be a siege or defending - so yea, not niche if you picked Ottomans. In regard to the faith generation. It is useful if you have a reason to want to keep your faith for either RP or a specific synergy like seas bounty with cothons. It can single-handedly reverse an opponent's religion snowball, and it is usually during this era that the irreversible snowball really starts. Not trying to argue faith is super important, just that if the player has some reason to want to have a religion, then this building is pretty good. As for your comment on traits and districts that last forever and units don't. I would say military successes like taking an opponents city when you otherwise would not have been able to are long lasting, game changing events. Agree to disagree with you there. And as I mentioned earlier, the superseding unit is line infantry which could be considered a downgrade. I would recommend Ottomans for two types of players. Either those who are still learning and struggle to keep up with progression speed at humankind difficulty or those who are doing something like a one city challenge on humankind difficulty and military action is desired to keep the opponents at your single city's progression pace.

[@BJRecio]

I've found the Early Modern era in general works as a "catch-up" era, in that I tend to pick the culture that provides the resource I'm lagging the most in so that I can catch up. Usually I pick Joseon (because for some reason I can't seem to develop Science properly in the early game), but I've also picked Ming, Maasai, and Ottoman as well depending on need. I feel like I have to defend the Ottomans a bit. Granted, you need a decent, pre-existing science to shoot straight for saltpetre, but generally -50% cost on heavy weapons is huge to have especially until the end game. (It's also historically relevant for what that's worth.) Janissaries + cannons are good for an aggro expansion playstyle. I do wish the Sultan Camii adds science instead of influence. But overall I think they're a C rather than a D.

[@JumboPixel]

Yeah that’s fair. Sometime I use it as a catch-up era to bounce through quickly too 😅 Your point on the heavy weapon industry cost reduction is well taken, but it’s still such a niche effect. Why not take a culture with extra industry and get a bonus when you produce anything? (extreme example, but you can swap most other bonuses out and get the same result I reckon). Food for though anyways! It would be brilliant if the Sultan Camii awarded some science.

[@joshhoey]

Jumbo, please don’t sleep on those Jannisaries. They replace Arquebusiers and so their “Siege Mastery” power - which I believe works when attacking or defending during a siege - replaces the basic unit’s “Move or Attack”, giving the Ottomans and the Spanish gunner units near the start of the era that can move and fire, unlike all the other empires. That really lets you go on the offensive and maintain tactical control of early gunpowder warfare better than your contemporaries! Also, yes, it would be nice if the Sultan Camii produced science like their Umayyad predessesors’ did. I’m a huge fan of cultures whose buildings produce unique and unexpected combinations of FIDSI output.

[@jasonhughes4903]

@@joshhoey Yeah I was about to respond with how good the janissaries are because they can move and attack. I've never played the Spanish but I imagine their unit is good for the same reason (though probably a bit less than janissaries bc they don't have siege mastery.

[@cubalibero]

Starting the week with a new Jumbo video! Great stuff!

[@jaspermooren5883]

I really like the Dutch, but I usually play on a 30% land map (which is not only the land percentage of real earth, I think it also balances the game by making naval way more important), with quite a few continents (usually as much as the amount of players). If you combine it with the Carthaginians and plan for it, their district is an absolute powerhouse. Also because they increase the trader yield they are incredibly powerful when you have very few cities (in most games I have 1 or 2 cities with approx 10 territories at this point), which makes the trader absolutely broken powerful. With the Carthaginians making money 33% more powerful effectively (their 25% discount on buyouts make them amazing for a high money game), they amazingly synergize with the Dutch, but even more so because their main bonus is that their cothon allows 2 harbours per territory (1 harbour and 1 cothon). This means that with a little bit of preparation you can get 40 money per VOC Warehouse, as well as make your trader pops absolutely broken (with 8 of these in a city your traders make 16 extra money each, so in a large city with 30-40 traders the dutch can effectively double your money output). But I maybe have a weird playstyle going for 1 city that is absolutely huge on a map where basically every territory is coastal. In fact usually the time I build my second city is on a different continent that literally cannot connect to my capital.

[@NovaBushido]

I think the faith classes always ranking low shows the issue is that faith doesn't give enough benefits to specialise in for it to be your main resource. Also Industry once again is king haha, it's way too strong. I'm very surprised we haven't seen a major balance patch by now. It's quite apparant to me the under performing cultures.

[@JumboPixel]

Yeah I see your point. Although I do value it higher in the early game (and of course it’s important to note that some of the religious bonuses are very very powerful) Yeah industry is king! Classic 4x problem (feature? Design choice? I don’t know)

[@atheistlinguist542]

I wonder if the Dutch might move up a notch now that the developers have apparently fixed the VOC Warehouse placement issue. At least, that's what I'm assuming, since in every game I've played them, I could easily build one next to a harbor without it also being adjacent to another district.

[@starsoldier6000]

can we have an updated version of the industrial culture tierlist? also i have nothing to say on this tierlist cause i dont have the fullgame

[@JumboPixel]

I would LOVE to - but these videos take 2-10x longer than average because of the research, recording sessions, and intensive editing. If this video is enjoyed, and does well enough, I’ll definitely keep ‘em coming over time though 😎

[@starsoldier6000]

Understandable, you can update it when you feel like to, I will just watch one of your streams

[@MinecraftAddict991]

You mentioned Janissaries' lack of synergy with the culture, I disagree. If you're going to be engaging in wars of conquest with your heavy weapons, you can't blast through every problem with big guns. A specialized siege assaulter pairs well with preexisting overwhelming firepower. I'd imagine it would also be very difficult to counterattack the Ottomans for their new gains since the same assaulter unit receives benefits on the defence of cities.

[@JumboPixel]

It’s a nice bonus - but don’t forget, a little extra combat strength isn’t special. Civics, faith, cultures, techs… it’s hard to find a place where a unit couldn’t get some extra combat strength and easily rival the relatively niche bonus of the Janissaries. You’re right though, it is synergetic! I’d suggest the net impact of the synergy, and the overall value impact it has on the game, is almost nonexistent at scale. This is probably something to remember more broadly too. Units are generally not weighted anywhere near as heavily as EQs or Traits in my tier lists. They are unfortunately sometimes just… redundant, replaced, or too resource intensive to produce within their era. Saltpetre is a great example.

[@comradeanthony4120]

They really need to boost religion in this game. To me religion just seems like a thing they tacked on as an afterthought. It gives you bonuses to yields and that's kinda all it does. Why on earth they didn't give you stars for earing faith or fame for starting a religion is wild to me. Also would be nice if faith could be used to purchase things.

[@radaf4429]

Ming buff actually made it really good

[@a.m.hofmeister725]

I think, as much as I love you man: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKS1hGSarKiiqtk I exaggerate, but I really do think there are a few glaring holes you leave. This will be a comment which is way too long, so here's MY tier list to give context: S Tier: Ming, Mughals, Joseon A Tier: Venice, Ottomans, Maasai, B Tier: Haudenosaunee, Spain, Dutch C Tier: Poles D Tier: Edo Japan You can see certain overlaps of Mughals, Venice, Maasai, Haudenosaunee, Poles, and Edo Japan (Obviously Haha) I think the biggest surface level issue is your placement of Ming. Ming's Legacy Trait essentially allows for you to have any civic at will, especially paired with the Religious Tenet that decreases civic cost as well. Civics become incredibly expensive in the late game, but remain VERY powerful, especially the government civics. You can make ANYTHING happen in industrial after researching encyclopedia. Effectively, you can have any civic effect AT WILL, and can switch gears on a dime from building your empire to crushing others. Get your Nukes and then get your fame bonus afterwards. Enact Constitutional Monarchy to build, and then Absolute monarchy to war. -30% Unit Cost, then bam, those units have +1 combat strength as they went from conscripts to professional soldiers. These are incredibly powerful bonuses and you can get them and swap them any time you like, with severely reduced barrier of entry. Influence is pretty much only good for Civics in the Late game, but these guys make it a 100% non-issue. And the Rocket carts are incredibly useful, especially against ocean threats. There's also a LOT of potential in the Ottomans, and earning those expansionist stars is now INCREDIBLY easy. Plenty of late game heavy weapons are available which are now stronger, but more importantly, 50% off in build cost. You have to look at them as an investment in the future, as they make the Chinese EU in the contemporary Era absolutely broken. If the barrier for entry is industry, then 50% off industry cost on ANYTHING is good. They and the Spanish also have two of the only units which can move and fire in the Early Modern Era. The Dutch FYLYOOT is also perhaps underwhelming, but I think you underrate it. Being able to ship out land units quickly to other continents is absolutely powerful, especially if you are playing a 100% NOT HISTORICALLY ACCURATE NEW WORLD MAP (BECAUSE THE "NEW WORLD" IS A FICTIONAL COLONIALIST CONCEPT WHICH DUHUMANIZES INDIGENOUS PEOPLES, but it's also a great game mechanic and honestly super fun. Anyway---). But on any kind of Naval Map, that power to ship out land units is great. A bit of the same story with the VOC warehouse, but I think Free Placement would make it Bananas crazy good, and perhaps make the Dutch S Tier., A minor nitpick is just the confusion around the Haudenosaunee Emblematic unit. It unlocks very late into the era, and is arguably worse than both Spanish and Ottoman EUs. Unless Stealth is better than I think, I'm scratching my head on your praise of it. Now, Joseon is just a touch underrated in this list IMO. There is a Contemporary Era tech called computing, which grants +1 science on all districts. The LT of the Joseon turns that into +4. The Democratic Republic Civic gives +1 gold and science on commons quarters, guess what? Now it's +4 science. Ethiopian LT now provides +8 science on garrisons. I think these uses of the LT nudge it up one tier from what you had. As for the faith, there are a couple of cultures to pair them up with, but Spain's EQ becomes the Brazilians EQ if you've got Angkor Watt in the City. Edgecases are still cases. Just a little eensy weensy nudge up, imo. And that's all! Kinda! Also, this Era IS exciting! It's Guns and Ships and so the balance shifts! We can rendezvous at Rochambeau and consolidate these gifts! A couple of tweaks and the era would be a lot of people's favorites, I think. Anyway, good video. Keep it up. #MicrowaveCoffeeGang

[@JumboPixel]

I LOVE this feedback - except for the glaring holes assertion (sorry I have people assert this all the time on opinion pieces and it just feels like throwing stones in glasshouses to me, always. Like, two commenters will always have biases, me absolutely included. Again - not a you thing, I think it just adds up when you read it a lot) Good call about Ming. I’m glad I moved them to A tier at the end of the video. Unsure they’re an S tier culture though. Perhaps the trait is an S tier trait, but I find it a hard sell to argue either of their other elements are S tier personally. I will live and die by my Dutch placement - although maaaaaaybe you could convince me to move them up a spot or two closer to the mean. The other thing I’d just note is that circumstantial ‘if paired with X culture later… or if you have a Y already’ should be treated cautiously. Again though. You are fantastic. Love the detailed feedback.

[@pdraggy]

Jumbo played one Dutch game where he refused to use the HAMLET to position things saying if it doesn't give him at least 12 exploitation it's not worth the placement... that IS NOT THE POINT lol) and he quickly went to the next era so... *sigh* some people. But you're right, Stealth unfortunately IS worthless... at least in single player. I still like the haudenosaunee as it's a LEG quicker than other foot soldiers. Do units go on 'overwatch' when they defend or something? I find when I put heavy weapons on the front line anything that moves gets cut into swiss cheese. I may have overlooked something like maybe the enemy was very weak and they just plinked off my armor I don't know I just know it was GLORIOUS the way this game uses audio in explosions is underrated it is ear porn xD

[@a.m.hofmeister725]

@@JumboPixel The "glaring holes" thing was meant to be more joking hyperbole, and I should have coated it in a more teasing tone, or just not said it at all lol, because I don't actually think it's true at all. I do agree that the "Combination" bonuses are situational for sure, but if I may muse philosophically for a moment: I think perhaps it's not just a difference of opinion, but a kind of more base "approach" which divides or respective lists. In spite of what Steinbeck said, sometimes the best laid plans of Mice and Men kinda Fricken Rule! And sometimes uh... they don't. Perhaps it's that there's a much more practical sense to how you compose your list here, and mine is a bit more tinkering and experimental. I think that you have ranked them by the usability in any given game, where I'm kinda "imagining" or "theorizing" situations and combinations where the cultures can be useful, or where they can shine, and placing them based on how well they do shine when they get the chance, vs if you were to take them in any given game and start using them. There's nothing wrong with either approach, especially since half of our culture rankings were exactly the same, and most of the others were just 1 tier off. So, they also clearly overlap a lot. Also, Dutch are a basically a B- or C+ Tier, because of how situational they can be. Also also, I won't deny my approach also can have some "Glaring holes" lol. Apologies again for that.

[@a.m.hofmeister725]

@@pdraggy I personally think Hamlet's are a bit overrated, because of the way district scaling works. I would use them a few times for the dutch EQ, but still.

[@bdleo300]

Taino. Ridiculously OP.

[@mairguimaraes1287]

Since I always go for agrarians or industrials I'm earlier eras... The Venetians have been my only pick for early modern in a couple of playthroughs. Their district scale SO MUCH that after this Era I tend to have enough money to rush just about anything a couple of times. Just pick the civic that give you the ability to annex territories using gold and you're set, annex like 10 territories with your endless money per city and you're good to go.. earning thousands upon thousands of gold.

[@maj.kingkong3004]

Strongly agree with the Mughals as the only S tier. Don’t always pick them as I may be trying to catch up in other areas. Going big on production always has huge potential transitioning into French or Swedes in the last two eras for a science rush.

[@apo2000]

Spanish in C Tier?! 😂 I would definitely rank them S-tier!

[@ambitionthief4926]

Do you mind doing a vid on faith it’s quite confusing

[@JumboPixel]

I already have one, but I’d be happy to revisit it again and update. Any specific questions?

[@starsoldier6000]

Speaking of faith, does different religions affect the faith system? Like traits

[@starsoldier6000]

Still need answers for my faith question

[@BrunoCarvalhoPaula]

@@starsoldier6000 Different religions as in Buddhism, Taoism, Islam etc? They're almost entirely cosmetic save for one specific event for each

[@starsoldier6000]

@@BrunoCarvalhoPaula oh ok

[@marcoshenriquesilvamartins6511]

Very good

[@Xerceth]

Venetians + World WIde Web tech = money printer go brrrrrrr

[@Jon0387]

It’s a shame these cultures are pretty mediocre, I find the Early Modern Era to be really fun. Once I can actually explore the oceans it’s like the game starts phase 2 where I can start expanding again, rush to take the new world and meet the rest of the players.

[@JumboPixel]

Totally!! Hopefully with enough Swahili (or Norse if you like them) action in the previous era we can explore the seas first!

[@r.h4218]

25:07 Well the very last human kind game ive played 5 of 9 other players declared war on me at the same time ... And it happened 2 times the the game ... But some how i defeated them all

[@aretnap11]

Spanish are my favorite here if I have anymore watt. Conquistadores are the best unit in the game imo

[@JumboPixel]

I see your Conquistadores and I raise you a thermonuclear missile

[@tankmech8164]

Dutch are S tier in my book. I do play with mods so I’m unsure if it works in base game. Having cultures that provide unique harbors can stack quickly. As well +2 money on traders are super good. However it does require planning to work.

[@JumboPixel]

I thought people would disagree - although I have to admit, I didn’t think anyone would say S tier! Unique harbours are nice! But with only 1/11 culture providing them - good luck keeping that consistent. I always remove points for restrictive districts and where prerequisite cultures are *required* to make it work. And that limitation on placing their district. I mean cmon!

[@tankmech8164]

@@JumboPixel It’s my bias, I have gotten load money from it. In addition if you are playing a water world, I would argue their ranks jumps up with that and other water cultures. As well mods would fix it a little bit. I’m not going disagree that they aren’t bad, but they really aren’t D. Sure that district placement is bad, but +2 money on traders on a district. The scaling potential is insane, having a mega coastal city is synergies super well. I also forgot there’s only one base unique harbor that can be separated.

[@TheRealDylGaming]

@@tankmech8164 @JumboPixel this was my only time I think through up to this era I've disagreed as well. If I can get good enough outposts next to water and attach them next to a good harbor spot (yes I know an "if" conditional,) you can rake in money and buy everything else you haven't been able to trade for or pay for production, or if you're not as good at keeping up in science like I am and play on a harder difficulty suited to my actual level like I do, buy my freedom from wars lol.

[@JumboPixel]

You asked for this....

[@p.taylor981]

Dutch are pretty good, just build hamlets near the harbors

[@JumboPixel]

It’s a good work around! But also note, that effectively makes it cost 2x as much as any other cultures district because it requires a hamlet to be placed correctly.

[@ryanclaybourn9613]

I won't stand for the Dutch slander I run them nearly every game

[@Renamatic]

Another great video. But please learn how to pronounce 조선 (Jo-son) NOT Jo-se-on. lol

[@JumboPixel]

Thanks! Appreciated!

[@Renamatic]

The “eo” in Korean is pronounced together as one vowel sound “ㅓ”

[@Renamatic]

It sounds like an “o” when you are pleasantly surprised by something. As in: “Oh! Jumbo is such a great youtuber”. ^.^ hehe

[@YevheniiMiroshnychenko]

I think you are judging Duch a bit to harsh. You forgetting that in this erea hamlets available and you can put districts ajacent to them))

[@JumboPixel]

Having to waste a hamlet to make a district useful makes it a very inefficient district! Hamlets shouldn’t be placed next to the water either. Also very inefficient!

[@pdraggy]

lol what do you have against the dutch lol just use a hamlet. and who only has 4 cities going into the games 4th (not including neolithic) era? one thing you need to realize about emblematic districts (it's quarter btw :P district is a Civ word lol) is the bonuses that say 'per xxx' are scalable ie the Babylon +1 food per researcher I can CONFIRM is scalable, in my game where I kept Babylon to the end and had like 50 territories EACH researcher gave me 50 food! for the Ming the 1 influence per district will give you 1 influence PER EMBLEMATIC QUARTER per district. If you have a large city you can have 500+ influence from that single city, smaller cities are like 200-300 and back to the Dutch, the _2 money per trader it adds up say you have 5 territories that's 10 moneys per trader and 20 traders that's 200 gold for that small town from that one bonus.

[@JumboPixel]

Hey nice highlights there with that example! Perhaps I should use a better word than “scalable” because you’re right, it does scale (limited by number of EQs). I should make the distinction between scalable, and the exponential growth that % bonuses (for example) offer. Some other considerations, if you step back from individual cultures or districts (so long as you understand the use of the word district, I think it’s fine :P ): Is gold better than scalable industry? Is influence better than science? How does game speed impact yields and ‘scalability’? Loads of things to consider at the macro level.

[@humongousswine8734]

First lol

[@JumboPixel]

Big win

[@humongousswine8734]

@@JumboPixel Something ive shared in all the streams but got lost because theres a million messages a minute in those, Haudenosaunee is pronounced closer to "Hodda-NOSS-onie", spoken quite rapidly. Im Mohawk (part of the 6 nations) and every online pronunciation has that "shaun" sound that ive never heard from my elders or community. Love the content its always amazing!