THE VENGEANCE SAGA | Not Sorry For Loving You + Dangerous from EPIC The Musical | Reaction/Analysis

[@CFEntertains]

The entire saga unedited is already on Patreon! First link in the bio 💕 Notes: - Calypso being cursed is a PJ canon, not epic - sorry! - The storm is cursed not the bag Thanks for clarifying that for me everyone !

[@addisonspringall4958]

Casper: Go kill someone. Maybe Poseidon, haha you can't..." Me who's listened to Six Hundred strike: Exactly...

[@makaramuss]

Wait.... I see what you did there 😊

[@marith3bl4st]

Wait- Wait!

[@G.Paat1403]

AAAaaaAAAAAAAHhhhhHHHHH

[@blued_moon4020]

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE HELPLESS?!

[@BiankaCsillag]

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO KNOW PAIN?

[@athenacabin8]

Mortius after reacting to Nsfly: 😡😡😡😡 Casper after reacting to Nsfly: 🥺🥺🥺🥺

[@Bolt_Chaser]

"I'm looking at, uhh... 𝕿 𝖍 𝖊 𝕿 𝖗 𝖎 𝖉 𝖊 𝖓 𝖙.."

[@Nulnhility]

*ominous* *noises*

[@YusufSahin-dg7il]

Casper the prophet, cursing me with the knowledge that Thunder Bringer sounds like Chocolate Rain.

[@WittySomething]

I'M SORRY WHAT? Never mind I can't risk hearing Chocolate Rain every time I listen to Thunder Bringer. *probably will anyway since she's still watching the video*

[@G.Paat1403]

THUNDER BRING HER CHOCOLATE RAAAIIINN

[@dorothygale9648]

Bro, you and Mortius are gonna fight over Calypso. His sympathy for her is NEGATIVE.

[@benjamin8547]

And he's so right for it though

[@fleischsalat318]

​@benjamin8547 never have been deeply lonely, huh? This doesn't make it right for her to impose herself on him but I can't judge her one bit. And I even don't get if it is her spell (she kinda said something like that in ger first song) or if she is trapped by someone else and he unluckely happened to be trapped too when he washed up on the same island. I'm really curious. And I'm only talking about all impressions we get from EPIC and no other Greek mythologies source material. Because EPIC is a whole new thing with so many changes that the source material doesn't matter anyway or any "fanfiction" like Percy Jackson.

[@feldfos]

Bro, EVERYONE fights over Calypso 😂😂

[@dragansnyder2786]

​@@fleischsalat318to be honest though we're going to listen to everything she said, 40th still isn't wrong for hating the way she talks to Odysseus in this song, this goes beyond just being lonely, she is trying to manipulate a married man to get him to want to stay with her"if you hate me then I'm sorry my love was too much for you, but I'm not sorry for loving you"I would usually give sympathy for the fact that she's probably bad at social skills, because of the fact she's been trapped on an island for so long, but in her two appearances she's shown herself to at least be aware of human emotion, so she knows on some level how he feels, but she just tries to ignore it so that she can continue to try to sleep with this man, and even if the sexual assault is not canon within epic, this man' spent 7 years on an island with her, and tried to off himself at least once that we know about, possibly more times than that, so she doesn't seem to be attempting to bond with him in any other way than a romantic way which is not what he wants, there really isn't much room for sympathy there. And I don't blame mortius at all.

[@pointlessviewer]

I mean until Cpt. Jalapeno confirms the canon events that took place in those years it's hard to tell if it was just pushy imprisonment or full on SA happening - which would swing my stance and empathy largely depending on which is canon

[@rhov-anion]

19:38 - "Does being the monster allow you to f*k up the god of the ocean?" Please just hold on to that thought for a moment, dear prophet.

[@blued_moon4020]

Heeeee is the prophet with the answers we seeeeek

[@bradleybarnett1469]

It shouldn't, but Jorge had to get Poseidon to stop somehow

[@alexanderberry1665]

​@@blued_moon4020 Tiiiiime he's unlocked it, he sees past and future running free

[@glitchyboi206]

⁠@@blued_moon4020Tiiiiime he’s unlocked it, he sees past and future running free

[@Anton-hs7lt]

LITERALLY also now scylla and ody singing 'were the same u and i' makes even more sense like THEYRE MONSTERS THAT FUCK UP POSEIDON YK GAH sory i had to share this somewhere

[@mtauthor1586]

Fun fact: the reason why Barbara Wangui was cast first is because in the beginning Jorge was thinking of doing Epic in the actual timeline order of the Odyssey, which begins with Odysseus on Calypso's island. All the stuff that comes before is revealed later in this flashback/story Odysseus is telling some people

[@darkness_hound1375]

THAT'S WHY MY ODYSSEY BOOK STARTS WITH CALYPSO!?!?

[@jessica_0625]

​@@darkness_hound1375 Actually ☝️🤓 (I'm kidding-) it's not just the Odyssey. Epic books (in my country they're called "epopeias" but when I translate it, it turns "epic", so I assume they're called "epic books") they all start in the middle of the story (the latin term is "in media res" I think :>) So, besides the Odyssey, the Iliad, the Aeneid and the Lusiads also start in media res.

[@samikay626]

⁠​⁠@@jessica_0625translation is spot on actually! They are referred to as “Epics” here, sometimes expanded to “Epic poems” but that’s a bit of a redundant name😅

[@jessica_0625]

@@samikay626 Tysm!! I wasn't sure if that was correct when I wrote it, so thanks for clarifying! Have a nice day :D

[@icemagiciangh]

* Calypso summons backing vocals,* “Can your wife do that? I have a magical choir… Will you love me now?” “… So… my Uber is waiting.”

[@awakener-s3l]

I mean her backing vocals are just her and Odysseus, not too impressed

[@ChaoticDoodle]

Calypso: “B-but isn’t my music much better now?” *Groovy noises* Odysseus: “HERMES?” Calypso: “damn it.”

[@kacperrus5202]

"My uber is waiting for me. So full spead ahead."

[@AshaMahanti13]

Sometimes Penelope’s mom is a naiad, so she could be partially divine like Odysseus (his great-grandfather is Hermes). Maybe she could be able to summon backing vocals.

[@G.Paat1403]

​@@kacperrus5202 Uhh so is this THE INFAMOUS ODYSSEUS KING OF ITHICA? Ody: Yes also Remember Me next time ok?

[@erosennin211]

Her saying "I'm sorry my love is too much for you" really comes off as emotional manipulation, not even actually realizing how in the wrong she is.

[@the_Royal_Crow]

Some real "I´m sorry you feel that way" energy

[@Axt.Artist]

(I start this with saying I'm not defending Calypso. No she isn't faultless or blameless. No I don't condone her actions one bit.) I figured a lot of gods have that mentality, especially when you're brought up like Calypso was tbh. Like the "It can't be my fault, there is something wrong with you" because whether she knows it or not "You're adorable, bow down now to the immortal Calypso-" she at least internally knows she is 'better than everyone else' she is Divine, she is a god, gods can do no wrong. Her life is fucked up, gods hurt other gods all the time (Kronos and his kids, Zeus and Hephaestus, Hephaestus and Athena, there are many stories of the gods harming one another in many shapes and forms) so yes she is a victim, but victims can become aggressors. It happens, and it sucks. It's why people who were abused as kids don't have kids because they don't want the cycle to repeat. She is a victim, but her actions against Odysseus are inexcusable. There. Is. No. Excuse. Real love means boundaries, real love means you'd take no for an answer, real love isn't keeping Ody there and taking him as your own. So she might know exactly what she's saying in "Not sorry for loving you" but then again, if she's been alone for a hundred years, she might not get how her words literally are gaslighting and manipulative. She isn't a good person, either way, but a penny for my thoughts.👛

[@jesuschristbutafab9923]

I feel like the first song was her trying to keep Ody by making him feel bad for her, intentionally or not, and accidentally showing that she's a lil bit delulu

[@area52ron]

@@Axt.Artistshe seems naive not innocent

[@SingingSealRiana]

Yeah, especially since shemlike deliberatly misses the point of the issue. No one ever did or would blame her for loving him, its not a thing that needs appologising for in the first place. But she says it to not have to appologise for her actual wrong doings, holding him captive, threatening hin into compliance, assaulting him and such. Her saying she will not appologisee for "loving him" says she will not appologise for her actions, sees nothing really wrong with them and turns her into the victim of the situation after all she put him through . . . . .peek toxic emotionaly abusive person writing . . . I find her scaryer then beast mode Zeus or poseidon

[@felixhenson9926]

Also, nobody can resist dancing to Dangerous, it's physically impossible. Literally in the release stream even Jorge was vibing to it haha!

[@montavious4748]

So true, I hate dancing but I just can’t help it!

[@jordanNCM]

When is Jorge not vibing though? But the groove is certainly irresistible!

[@gabrielaanampaguzman7756]

So ..I didn't like the song at first listen ,but now I love it 😂

[@Dramione2013]

I've gotten some strange looks from my coworkers walking past me dancing to the Hermes songs 😂

[@externety]

"Does being the monster allow you to f*ck up the god of the ocean" My boy. I'm going to hold your hand as I say this: Ody is a great grandkid of hermes. His bow has a draw strenght of 300 lb's. He is strong AF.

[@modestomicrofpvraceclub4028]

@@externety fr

[@AVoiceForRadio]

One thing I don't see people talking about is that, during the reprise at the beginning of Dangerous, Ody says "No fleet, no band", which plays into the fact that the only instrumentation is the guitar, which is the instrument used for Odysseus. It's not until Hermes shows up that a backing band comes to play.

[@theheartbreaker830]

Jumping from Mortius to Casper's premier. What a day

[@agentmjl7]

Same! That’s exactly what I did!

[@AUCreatoer]

Same :D

[@Victoria-_]

Same 😂😂

[@Karma._.626]

same!

[@sophiekyleswift]

I love it when Casper gets confronted with the fact he's a prophet without anyone pointing it out to him 😂😂

[@modestomicrofpvraceclub4028]

Fr

[@melaniecheshire6420]

Apollo needs to leave this man alone 😂

[@blue-eyeswhitekirbo2543]

To my understanding regarding calypso and her island: she can’t physically leave it, and also can make any other person on the island unable to leave it. Ody couldn’t leave it without the gods ordering calypso to let him go. The curse of calypso falling in love is mostly a modern invention, and it’s more ody being her first ever contact with a being since her exile.

[@lunarbl4de476]

Iirc her being trapped on the island was also a modern invention (both originating from Percy Jackson I believe). Many sources make no mention of her ever being trapped in the first place.

[@anandbleep2337]

@@lunarbl4de476fair although that does definitely seems like epic cannon too

[@EdenVix]

I don't think she has a say on the matter tbh, at least in epic. She says "no one can come or go" and in not sorry for loving you she just says someone is taking Ody away, not that they ordered her to let him go. I think Athena had to convince Zeus to "break" the spell for Ody because he's the one with the power to do so, otherwise she could have intervened herself and forced Calypso to do it in one way or another

[@blue-eyeswhitekirbo2543]

@@lunarbl4de476 that is fair, I simply assumed she couldn’t because, why not attempt to leave? (Unless she’s trapped on the island because she literally doesn’t know how to sail a raft.)

[@merlinrecon7528]

@@lunarbl4de476you’re wrong tho, she literally can’t leave. Even in love in paradise she said herself “no one can come or go” meaning she can’t leave the island herself, after all if she can leave, why not leave with ody to explore the world

[@DrakeDragonton]

Mortius: Hates Calypso with his whole being Casper: Loves Polites with his whole being A VERY funny dichotomy

[@mokajikai]

Polites???

[@DrakeDragonton]

@@mokajikai Yes, it’s funny to see them only literally caring about their respective character during this saga, whether it be hate or love.

[@mokajikai]

@@DrakeDragonton I’m sorry, if I understood correctly, it should be: Casper:Loves CALYPSO with his whole being Don’t discriminate me for not immediately knowing what dichotomy is but I searched it up and the definition of dichotomy is somewhat like the exact opposite of one another for example love and hatred, so if it was meant to be Casper loving Polites with his whole being, I don’t see how that would contrast with Mortius hating Calypso with his whole being.

[@DrakeDragonton]

@@mokajikai I guess my point was one was only focused on hating a character while one is obsessed with a character. Their attitudes, very different during the reaction. I understand that I made it confusing

[@mokajikai]

@ Well I understand now, I agree with your statement, Mortius seemed very offended by Calypso in this saga lol

[@samuelshirley369]

Man.... I can't believe they got Hermes himself to voice Hermes in Epic. Unbelievable, and I am truly blessed to be able to hear it

[@d.c-4075]

As far as I know, Calypso is punished to stay in the island forever, she’s trapped in there alone. And also, as far as I know, Calypso is never cursed to fall in love with anyone that gets in the island, that was an interpretation Rick Riordan did when writing PJO that was later popularized. In most (if not all) versions of Calypso’s myth she’s not cursed to love Odysseus

[@angels2wings]

You are right. Also she is free to do whatever she wants on her island so it is a sweet deal if you don't count the alone part.

[@composeyourself3]

Actually she's not even punished to stay in the island. She just lives there just like Circe lives there. I'm guessing Jay has leaned into Rick's interpretation, since she says, "I was cast away when I was young."

[@d.c-4075]

@@composeyourself3 for some reason, the answer thing didn’t work, but this is what I wanted to say: idk, maybe. But she was actually kind of cast away when she was young because she supported her father on the war against gods

[@composeyourself3]

@@d.c-4075 that's also made up by Rick Riordan. Seriously, you will find no information on Calypso before she met Odysseus. She wasn't cast away, she didn't fight against the gods, she wasn't cursed. It's all from Percy Jackson.

[@d.c-4075]

@@composeyourself3 well, damn. Gotta check my sources 😭

[@KhaoticKosmos]

My personal theory/headcanon for the thunderbringer motif being present in the background is because Hermes is here on the orders of Zeus. He is a messenger after all, he's delivering Zeus' message so his words hold a little bit of Zeus' energy (in the form of the motif)

[@anaflores1960]

Calypso is not cursed to fall in love. Her punishment is ONLY being trapped on her island. Odysseus made it VERY clear he did not consent to her advances, but Calypso kept pushing for 7 years & Only apologized when she was forced to let him go

[@williamzinedineh]

This was not an apology either. "I'm sorry my love's too much for you" is NOT an apology

[@anniefemmas5097]

And that was not an apology

[@sammjaisais7135]

Not even that, she DIDN'T apologise. It's a song about her REFUSING to admit she did anything wrong or apologise for any pain she caused. I understand why, and I feel bad for her, but I don't excuse nor defend her actions.

[@itzjamjamcrew]

​She herself admits she's wrong she just isn't apologizing for it. This song is just closer for her, so that she can move on and move forward. It's basically her acknowledging that he doesn't love her and that she needs to move on. Because she already knows that he doesn't love her, but she dilutes herself into thinking that he could sense they both will be there until he dies. But since he's leaving that belief of hers is no longer true. So this song serves as closure not an apology.

[@duolingoowl920]

@@williamzinedinehno, saying “I was wrong” is an apology. The picking and choosing in these comments is wild

[@froilandragon5693]

22:15 I AM SO GLAD YOU CAUGHT THAT. I have two theories: A. Hermes was sent under Zeus' orders, like in the original Odyssey. B. The bassline is the "Divine Intervention" Motif where a god DIRECTLY meddles with the flow of a mortal's fate

[@jungletherainwing1471]

Fun Fact: Laestrygonia (The Land of the Giants) is basically Norway, Fjords and all

[@conradoccaminha]

Hey Casper, just correcting some details on the Calypso thing: In the Percy Jackson series she's doomed to fall in love for everyone who arrive in the island but that's just the explanation Rick Riordan gives so the caracter isn't just kidnapping Odisseus (Like Jorge, Rick had to deal with the difficult implications for consent both in Odisseus visit to Circe - who actually holds him for a year in the Odissey - and with Calypso). In Mythology there isn't any reference to this. Calypso is just a goddess who forcibly keeps Odisseus in her island while trying to persuade him to stay with her forever. If he accepts she would grant him immortality, but he rejects the offer over and over until Athena gets Zeus to send Hermes tell her to let him leave. As for weather she knows if you can leave the island... She does, because she actually has children by Hermes and they leave the island. That's also why Athena can't go get Odisseus herself. Hermes knows where the island is. Also, Calypso's name aparently means "to conceal" which implies she is the one concealing the island from the rest of the world (and thus preventing Odisseus from leaving). Greek mythology is filled with nonconsensual shit and this is not restricted to women - it also happens to men. Every author who tries to build on it has to deal with these implications. They find a variety of ways to do so, but I think we need to keep in mind that these are new versions and the original one will always be plagued by those elements...

[@Frostbite08]

Thunder Bringer may be present in Dangerous because Zeus gave permission for Odysseus's release, Hermes is just the messenger. Or because Zeus is Hermes's father, which has... additional implications.

[@1mtry1ng_myb3zt]

Calypso isn’t cursed to fall in love in the actual myths that’s just Percy Jackson

[@thepuzzleoracle6760]

I don’t even think that was an actual thing in Percy Jackson. From what I can remember she says the gods send her people she can’t help but love because of who they are, not she’s cursed to love them. I think people just took that and ran with the curse thing.

[@KnittingTinker]

Yeah not cursed to love them, but she still is stuck on an island for an extended period of time with no human contact, as social creatures anybody would grab onto the first person they see and not want to let go to back to isolation

[@thepuzzleoracle6760]

@ yes! That is a far more logical explanation than she’s cursed to fall in love with them!

[@anniefemmas5097]

​@@KnittingTinker Maybe, but it's still horrible

[@aadityayanamandra8846]

First Eurylochus, now Calypso... You and Mortius are gonna have a tough time talking about song 1 of this saga lol

[@rebeccaepperson7972]

Casper: Yeah, last I checked gods can't die. All the winions: Yeah..... Exactly. :)

[@TearsOfLa]

If you listen closely, Calypso's choir is just her and Odysseus with different pitches. Those are literally the only voices she has to draw from to make her choir. Though with that cool songwriting note out of the way here's my Calypso take. Love in paradise and Not sorry for loving you are a masterclass in writing emotional manipulation, and the fan divide on Epic Calypso is proof of it. Shes not sorry for what happened, shes sorry that he didn't give in. She ignored his pleas and tried to force him into a relationship even after being told no for years. In the end when she has to see him off, she hits him with "Im sorry my love was too much for you" as though it was his fault that things were bad on her island. She says "I wish you would lie and say 'i love you'" meaning she knew the whole time he didn't care about her and was still trying. then trows a tantrum when he says that he doesn't feel the same way about her, like "Why wont you just love me back 'married man trapped in my divine prison cell with me" Yet there are people who defend Calypso as just a hopeless romantic, lovestruck with the first man she meets and that she really was the victim after she was placed on Ogygia. Its manipulation so cleanly delivered that it even manipulated the fans into believing her! chefs kiss beautiful instrumentals, beautiful voice, beautiful writing. A+ song Also, during Dangerous, the silence where the call and response should go for the Full speed ahead reprise hits so hard Also, Im gonna make an educated guess as I dont think its been officially stated,but the thunder bringer riff being here could be a callout to the fact that hermes his here on Zeus' orders instead of his own will.

[@karamelalb2328]

This is a great take on the Calipso situation, thanks ;)

[@SingingSealRiana]

One can feel sorry for her, her fate sucks, but it does not make it ok how she tries to force the same and worse onto him. A classical victim turns into an abuser cycle. You are so right on, she is only sorry for herself, she makes herself into the victim here despite her being the aggressor and ody not oweing her anything . . . . This makes her deeply triggering for anyone who had a toxic manipulative mother, partner or friend . . .but yes she is written so skillfuly, that she in fact managed to manipulate those less experienced with that Type of bs. Yes, you can be truely in pain and have no ill intention at all and utterly destroy people by "loving them"

[@scarecrow4611]

I think most people just can’t differentiate between „understanding“ her and just Defending/Supporting her.

[@jordanNCM]

10:10 "No one can come or go my island stays unknown" In the myths Calypso is banished to her island because Atlas (her father) opposed Zeus in the war between gods and titans. She is unable to leave. Hermes, as a messenger god and psychopomp is able to come and go freely which is why he is sent to collect Ody.

[@SM-fz3et]

Barbara's voice is SO gorgeous and Calypso's song is SO manipulative and creepy 😂

[@qwerty_qwerty]

lmao exactly

[@Constanze_black]

7:44 Roger+Glasses+Headband = lowkey could be Polites VA lol (So fitting that he's cutting/editing Open arms cause that what happens in epic yk 🙃)(because)(yk)

[@jamiejones6700]

Casper, I know you and Mortuis have a lot on your plate, essentially since you’re in Chicago. But maybe you guys could react to Troy Dohert’s music Troy Dohert is the voice of Hermes in Epic. His songs are really good and I think you might like them.

[@StupidScruff-0v0-]

OMG THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC

[@mirixfnfmidfightmasses8146]

They NEED to do that

[@readingwizard2394]

OMG YES!! He has so many good songs. Maybe they could do his zodiac track

[@grapeleiva2266]

They also need to listen to Steven Rodrigues songs

[@reubenproctor9344]

Casper said in premier chat that he has already listened to TROY's music :)

[@Elezyyy]

No, Calypso isn't cursed to fall in love with everyone (I believe that's a Percy Jackson thing)--however, I DO still feel sympathy for her--not because what she did is excusable, but because she quite frankly probably didn't even know it was wrong. She hasn't seen anyone in YEARS--her only friends were the sky and sun. It's not wrong to use the sun's light, or to use the plants and animals on the island. It didn't occur to her that she shouldn't use people. And however it is in the myths, it's obvious that she can't leave the island in EPIC, although she is keeping Odysseus there. She never should've forced herself onto Odysseus like that. But from her point of view? She genuinely thought she loved him. She actually thought she could make it work. She was the his only enemy that didn't want to do him harm--yet, her love caused him as much harm as any other enemy. I think Odysseus knew that, too; that's why he was willing to show her some pity.

[@dolphin64575]

Casper being so musically knowledgeable in 2 languages... I totally didn't hear the Thunderbringer until you pointed it out!

[@CheshireScalli]

I'm sooo glad you like "Not Sorry For Loving You"! I'm so in love with this song...

[@malenaseiguer2081]

Love hearing Casper’s insights into the instrumentation (and, of course, his nat 20 predictions!)

[@shrimppine8429]

i already said this in Mortius' vid but i couldnt say it right. in that last part where the puppeteer motif is heard as said by Casper(i didnot notice it until he said it) solidifies my theory that Odysseus was torturing Calypso by saying "i love you". "there are other ways of persuassion, there are other ways of control." -Circe

[@alphathewolf583]

I never noticed the resemblance to thunder bringer, but it makes sense since Hermes was sent on this buisiness by Zeus

[@adke117]

Shout out to the editor and his amazing musical interventions to follow up Casper's thoughts

[@ChaoticDoodle]

Calypso’s songs have a weird thing for crashing streams and videos

[@Lee-k1t]

The nat 20 to a 1 had me dying.

[@felixhenson9926]

No, there were two wind bags. There was a normal but intense storm that Odysseus made a deal with Aeolis to stash in the bag which cannot be opened and ofc Eury opens it. No curse, they just lost a game. This is a SECOND wind bag which contains a massive storm made by Poseidon which will intentionally block access to Ithaca.

[@yay29823]

I am sure both storms were caused by Poseidon, but these are two different wind bags

[@WittySomething]

@@yay29823 Nah, that wind bag looks like it has the same design as the one Jorge has had commissioned before. The stuff in his commissions is canon to the musical, with that being the case it would be the same wind bag. Hermes says they 'went through so much to get this', and by that I assume he means himself and maybe Athena, but regardless of who he means, someone went through a lot of trouble to get it. It implies that they had to REALLY work to get Aelous to help a second time.

[@ClawedAsh]

Nope, the first storm was sent by Poseidon, as is revealed by the Storm Motif in Ruthlessness, as Jorge has personally said

[@fabi45]

It’s the same bag, in a video Jorge said he wanted to make a mini story about Hermes and the Winions looking for the bag after Odysseus leaves it behind.

[@malenaseiguer2081]

I’m quoting from The Odyssey: “… (Odysseus) being compelled, he slept at night within the hollow grotto as she desired, not he. But in daytime, (…) he watched the barren sea and poured forth tears “ I don’t see consent there.

[@EpicRandomness555]

17:12 I was hoping you would remember!!!! Mortius didn’t remember!

[@modestomicrofpvraceclub4028]

Calypso : why in the world won't you love me too!? Odysseus literally within the first minute they met : I have a wife

[@flamenami]

The Wind Bag wasn’t cursed, the Winions were talking about the storm.

[@LexitaMai]

The windbag wasn't cursed. The STORM itself was made to stop Odysseus from reaching home. That storm was trapped in the bag. If it escapes the bag, it will once again be in place to stop him.

[@Shaphi95]

There is a lot of discourse right now about Calypso that I think has some interesting nuance, but because of some misinformation or misinterpretation has led to a little bit of toxic behavior. First off, the idea that Calypso is magically compelled to fall in love isn't in the original myths NOR is it what's said in Percy Jackson as the wording of Rick's version said she was only sent people she would naturally fall in love with so it's still not magical compulsion. The reason she's actually on that island is also iffy as it is not talked about in depth in the Odyssey and to my knowledge she just lives on her island upon which she holds dominion. The one thing we know for certain is that during years Odysseus was kept on her island it was she who prevented him from leaving. She had to be ordered to release him and this is the case in both the Musical and in the myth. While she kept Odysseus trapped on her island the story differs slightly from the myth to musical. In the myth, she seduces/coerces Odysseus to lay with her. It's an offer Odysseus clearly cannot refuse as she is the daughter of a titan and is the only person with the power to let him leave. In the Musical it is assumed that the sleeping together part didn't happen, HOWEVER Calypso does at the VERY LEAST sexually harassed Odysseus for seven years. This is where a lot of the discourse is happening and the two extremes I've seen are "Calypso is an irredeemable monster" and "Calypso did nothing wrong". My two cents on the matter lean toward the the former. Assuming she is literally trapped on her island, her situation is sad and that's about the only grace I will give her. No matter how lonely I get, I can't imagine being so lonely I would feel obliged to imprison somebody and harass for the rest of their life. She isn't compelled magically to do this, she does this of her own free will. An argument I've seen a lot is that Odysseus is a bad person too and that we shouldn't feel bad for him. Sorry, is someone's bodily autonomy conditional upon them being a good person? What ruffles my feathers, mostly, is that the story of Odysseus and Calypso is among the few examples of male SA in popular media and people still seem to be more concerned with defending, justifying, or sympathizing with Calypso than acknowledging that she is a monster for what she does.

[@scarlettmelody2928]

Bro I heard the opening bit in Dangerous during the livestream and IMMEDIATELY thought of your Full Speed Ahead reprise and audibly gasped

[@Nowcreating912]

Me when I try to hug my dog and she walks away: "I'm sorry my love is too much for you!!!!!"

[@oddemerald]

The curse thing where Calypso falls in love to the heroes who washed on her Island is a Riordan thing.

[@Alphabetical_mayB]

Troy Doherty slayed dangerous

[@shengdonglin4368]

FRRRR

[@saragtti4115]

Absolutely! Vibes:The musical, as Mortius so eloquently stated in his vid title :)

[@sirlancelot2907]

So from the odyssey, calypso wasn’t cast away but just live on this island. She held odysseus captive on her island for 7 years and promise him eternal youth and immortality if he stay with her. But the gods asked her to released him, and she did it by promising on the styx and help him to creat the raft. She also gave him food and wine for the travel

[@m0thernature730]

15:54 me sitting here looking for anyone else talking about the calypso puppeteer motif: “We came across a palace inside we heard a voice” “I’ve got all that you want here all that you need my love my dear in paradise” “to greed it was a choice” “No one can come or go my island stays unknown” “But nothing could prepare us for the power that awaited inside…” “Your adorable bow down to the mighty calypso here to entertain but fear not I bring no pain” “A woman” But also… “Last time we let strangers live we faced a heavy loss” “I HATE THAT I FELL IN LOVE WITH YOU!!!!” … calypso is just a young circie?!?!?! That might actually change my perspective on calypso… that’s difficult to do…

[@area52ron]

Fun fact: Jays sister voiced one of the lotus eaters/winions in this song

[@ChuncheeCat]

06:06 The silent realization and slight dread is so real. Also props to the editor, cuz that was a very fitting sound effect, really made me feel it with Casper.

[@johanharmse1789]

9:54 I think, if I remember correctly, Calypso alone was cursed to stay there. However, it was basically impossible to leave her island, especially if you're alone, because it was, like, in the middle of the ocean and very, very far from any other landmass. Without divine intervention, Ody probably would've died on his raft.

[@Synthesyn342]

Calypso wasn’t cursed to stay there, and she purposely kept Odysseus in the island, since she has control over it. In the same vein as Circe with her island. He could leave, but only if allowed by Calypso, who was forced to be allowed to leave by Zeus, through Hermes… that’s a lot 😂 So Athena -> Zeus -> Hermes -> Calypso -> Odysseus is allowed to leave.

[@merusotajio2222]

4:28 I'm pretty sure they added this in pjo , in the Odyssey she falls in love normally and isnt cursed like that

[@UndertaleLover1997]

Who's Troy? Hermes was voiced by Hermes in this Casper.

[@elenjulia8271]

Wangui has 4 songs of her own, called "Kanyoni", "Wait", "I hope" and 'idk". I totally recommend listening!

[@akaittou]

The way _Not Sorry for Loving You_ has no guitar whatsoever, not even for the bit where Odysseus speaks - and even the music dulls down there. It's like the words aren't even his own. Which makes sense, they're rushed, they're in response to her basically _telling_ him to lie to her, just this once. It breaks my heart as someone whos had to watch someone live in an emotionally abusive relationship in real life. Because that's exactly what happens: they learn to find something they can say or give to interrupt their abuser from winding up all the way (and no, it doesn't matter whether the abuse is intentional or not, no abuser ever thinks of themselves as an abuser anyway). And similarly, the way Calypso takes that lie out of its context to hear what she wants instead and how Odysseus then backpedals instead of pointing out how she twisted it around is so common for real life abusive relationships - you can't take back what you said without risking setting the person off, so you try to minimise the damage in other ways. Jorge is so on point with the lyrics, but man if they don't hit hard in unvomfortable places.

[@NR-kp1fq]

I would have never noticed the Circe and Zeus motifs, awesome reaction! 🤩

[@Star.34341]

Yesssssssssss (waaaiiiittttiiinnngggggg.......)

[@eduardapierin1334]

24:17 Them barely making through the sudden storm that conveniently appeared right after Ody the Dummy told who he was and his adress to the cyclop; Aeolus locking the storm in the wind bag and saying not to open it so they can make it home... all of this for both u and Mobius immediately jump at "omg the bag it was a trap all along" GUYYYYYS!!!!! 😂

[@VegaTheLyra]

Welp, time to riot again like when Mortius split Mutiny

[@ChaosOnyx]

ngl my take on Calypso is that since she was so young when she was trapped on the island, she had to grow up and teach herself about everything. she didn't have a parental figure to guide her and show her everything, which means she probably doesn't understand how wrong it is to want to be with Ody despite him having a wife, heck she may not even know what it means to have a wife. also in some versions of the story Calypso is cursed to fall in love with everyone who ends up on the island so she literally may not have a choice. that being said, I do understand fully where everyone else is coming from. she is 100% in the wrong, I just like to think that she doesn't know shes in the wrong ALSO OMG THE EDIT AT 6:44 I'M DYING

[@artemis_719]

"Does being the monster allow you to fuck up the god of the ocean?" Hold that thought buddy.

[@justarose]

Seriously, there's no mythological source for calypso even being trapped on her island, let alone "cursed to fall in love"

[@awakener-s3l]

There *is* basis for Calypso being trapped, but not for Odysseus being there as well. The only reason he couldn’t leave was Calypso stopping him for 7 straight years.

[@justarose]

@@awakener-s3l what myth?

[@laynalawson9596]

According to the sources I’ve looked into regarding the differences between Greek Gods/Goddesses and Nymphs (which is what Calypso actually is), she is ABSOLUTELY tied to her island and unable to leave it. Nymphs were nowhere near as powerful as the actual Olympian gods and while they were considered more minor deities of nature, they were often directly associated with specific places like islands, rivers, mountains, etc. Calypso cannot leave her island. Moreover, it’s totally hidden- not only from the human world but POSSIBLY from some of the gods as well considering that even Athena doesn’t know where Odysseus went until she Time Dived into his memories. When you consider she was “cast away” when she was “young” and has been alone all this time, it’s also possible that Calypso is severely emotionally stunted and simply does not have the life experience to understand what healthy love looks like the way Ody would as a grown married man. Imagine having the emotional maturity of a love-stricken teenager in a minor goddess’s body. I will also add that, in Homer’s story, after being commanded to let Odysseus go and calling all the gods jealous hypocrites, she actually HELPED Odysseus build that raft he escaped on and sent winds to fill his sails. Yes, she wasn’t happy about it but she didn’t sabotage or stop him from leaving. Not trying to EXCUSE Calypso’s actions in anyway. Unhealthy love is always unhealthy love. Plain and simple but just providing some context that I think often gets overlooked.

[@alveru70417]

The difference between Casper and Mortius reacting to I'm Not Sorry for Loving You is crazy. I guess that's because the majority of people insert themselves in Calypso and try to see it from her perspective while Mortius does the opposite and sees it from Ody's side. That's also probably why his face was like 🤬 when Odysseus said that he loves Calypso too.

[@sosha20]

and both sides are right (to an extent); i love complex writing like this! calypso IS sympathetic for what 100yrs of loneliness have done to her and imo it's completely understandable why she's clinging to ody but that doesn't make her actions right but how would she know that if she's been trapped there since childhood? again doesn't excuse anything and she should've listened to ody but i still feel sympathy for her and odysseus is 100% in the right bc he told her point blank at the start what was what and she doesn't listen even in this song he tries to say his piece and she talks over him, she's not listening - until he says what she wants to hear and he uses that to leave such a good song

[@sakurap95]

You roll nat 20s even with Jorge! 😂

[@evelynolea4433]

Not sorry for loving you was extremely triggering when i heard it for the first time, as someone that was in an abusive situation for 6 years the stuff she was saying was words i heard over and over again in attempts to guilt trip and gaslight, it felt like she was saying it was his fault for her loving him and its his fault for this situation and that hes the bad guy for making her feel this way, that plus knowing what she did to him every night for seven years, i couldnt forgive her

[@RBLeMoyne]

Nice catch on the Thunder Bringer callback! I assumed it was because Zeus sent Hermes to grant Athena's request and help Ody get home. Also, regardless of anyone's thoughts on Calypso's song in this saga, I'd bet real money musical theater nerds will be using it as the go-to unrequited love song for years to come, lol

[@Bitbyboth]

Man I did not notice that Thunderbringer motif, that's amazing. I wonder if it's because Hermes is the Messenger God and he's dispatched here specifically as a messenger from Zeus to free Odysseus from the island and that's why it's the Zeus motif but in Hermes' style with the synths? That's a really cool detail.

[@thaneofmoss]

Dude, you saying, "Teagan, why'd you have to die?" nearly gave me a heart attack! Almost didn't realize you meant her character and thought we'd lost a wonderful voice too soon! XP

[@gracetheatre23]

I think that these two songs are my favorite songs from this saga, they are just so good😍Thanks for the amazing reaction as always friend❤

[@karamelalb2328]

Okay I love your take on the tune at the end of Not Sorry for Loving you, and it’s a really nice point that they did both trap him. Tho I believe that tune is specifically to signal time passing- if you really in Pupeteer that same tune happened when Ody was waiting for his men to return :)

[@Call_me_Azrael]

You have to watch the animatics! Artist called Orange made an amazing animatic for “Dangerous”, his Hermes concept is amazing as character! They represent Hermes in not just a god of massagers, but also of travelers! Please watch it!! 🙏

[@iron1icx813]

This is such a good reaction and the insight is very nice to have. Especially with Calypsos island I always thought it was Calypso being cursed to love those onto the island. Similar to how it was explained in some mythos but it’s cool to explore more things like was it a psychological thing? Or more so a thing of whether she knew she could or not? If so why she never left? This is very interesting to really think about. ❤❤❤

[@Halvanhev]

It's so nice to watch someone actually sympathize for Calypso, in Love in Paradise we witness her say "Comeback inside dear, life would be so much worse if you had died", and Jorge is VERY intentional with his lyrics, and I like to treat Calypso in Epic as her own character in Epic, (but of course she is not without flaws) , also Odysseus continues Calypso's lyrics "I wish you would lie and say- I love you" is lyrical genius 😤 If the existence of Winions, and Eury having a bigass sword is in Epic, and some sources in the mythos saying Polites got stoned after committing SA in some sources, then I don't understand why people just straight up immediately shut Calypso down, (we also have confirmation that Jorge even wants (wants to but not guaranteed) to write his own backstory for Eurylochus, and what happened in Calypso's island during that 7 years Ody was trapped there, and Jay even mentioned that Not Sorry For Loving You was written during a time when he was feeling really down and the song meant a lot to him (We even had a full Calypso saga during the draft days) people are so blinded by hatred that they can't just appreciate a good song and dismiss it 😒

[@Macabrellian]

I'm begging on my hands and knees for people to stop perpetuating the idea that Percy Jackson lore is a legitimate source for Greek mythology. Please.

[@kcrusade2013]

They’re not saying “this happened in this, it is real” they’re comparing similar things between the two (being epic and Percy) I think. For mortius and Casper anyway

[@Synthesyn342]

⁠@@kcrusade2013 No, it’s genuine misinformation. Casper says “she’s cursed to fall in love with anyone who lands on the island”. In no where is anything like that stated in Mythology or PJO. I’m not saying it’s his fault because there’s a lot of easily found misinformation, and everyone makes simple mistakes like that.

[@Macabrellian]

@@kcrusade2013 Apologies, I should have been more clear! My comment was directed at people I see on the internet parroting the " *_IN THE ORIGINAL_* Calypso was cursed to fall in love with anyone who came to her island and also because her dad fought with the Titans in the war" thing. Even just in the comments here, you see a lot of people stating that these are things that were in Homer's _Odyssey_ in an attempt to explain things to Casper, and they just were not. And I should add that I don't blame Casper not knowing better. I know that he trusts the people watching his videos to give him accurate information when they comment on the original myths and poems EPIC is based on.

[@CFEntertains]

I apologize - it’s what I was told by the epic community when I asked in the discord.

[@Macabrellian]

@@CFEntertains All good-you have nothing to apologise for! Like I said, that was more directed at those spreading the misinformation in the comments without fact-checking themselves, as it tends to lead to confusion for folks. I really should have been clearer in my initial comment.

[@ellenn0172]

26:01 "Last i checked, gods can't die" ...Exactly

[@Lizzie_h3yyyx]

MY SANITY WHEN YOU COME HOME ILL BE WAITINGGGGGGGG

[@2-botyara]

6:44 Ares jumpscare

[@F.S.S.64]

"WHAT KIND OF SICK" f--k is hilarious 😂

[@fang609]

Thumbs up to you sir for an apsolute oracle momment, when you came up for a song for the Underworld Saga and you had that bit were Ody sang, waited for the crew to sing the next line, but there was only silence. And then we get that exact same thing in an official song for Epic!

[@Chromaggia]

The devious little smile I smiled when you said “let loose, go kill someone”

[@nicholasmcmahan-watson9405]

I think this song is the answer to, "when does the reson become the blame." And when Ody says "I love you," it is showing even Ody, a smart and loyal man can be subject to the Stockholm syndrome

[@KhmyhVKB]

As usual, love your reaction and analysis! Re the ending melody of Not Sorry For Loving You... my opinion is that's a time passing / short time skip melody. In Puppeteer, that melody showed up between when Eurylochus left to investigate with some of the men, and then came back after encountering Circe. And it gave me a mental imagery of sun setting, given the downward scale. At the end of NSFLY at 2:50, I think it suggesting Calypso was watching Ody leave for a long time, so long she watched from Ody's raft making it's way off the island until she no longer sees the raft on the horizon. (at least that's how I interpreted it.)

[@sinkandbath]

I understand everyone is talking about the implications of Calypso in NSFLY and whatever. But the song is fire tho

[@conradoccaminha]

Interesting that you noticed the Thunderbringer motif. I hadn't, don't have your ear, but it is fair to mention here Hermes is delivering Zeus' message so maybe that's why.

[@C5hurricane-qy8qi]

Hella excited, brain is running at like 200%. It’s Epic tiiiiime!!! :DDDD

[@tynand6827]

17:10 Man when dangerous started my first thought was "Casper??? Full speed ahead reprise?? Where did this come from??" 😂😂 Im pretty sure i went back to find that video where you show it to Mortius and just quietly thought to myself "Profet Casper at it again"

[@vanillarosekitchen]

Loved the reaction and analysis!!(also as someone who just got an intense jjk phase, the quick mention made me jump so hard haha)

[@franchaneli2095]

I love the comments from the editor 😂 “if Poseidon looses to Odysseus…” - “get to writing Hemingway” 😂 1:46

[@sam.sketti]

the amount of times the words “casper you fricking prophet” left my mouth this video is concerning i think mortius was right

[@Guildmaster_xero]

You and Mortius had very different reactions to Not Sorry For Loving You. You looked on the brink of tears during the first chorus, Mortius was ready to throw hands.

[@SeerOfTime577]

Fantastic analysis, Casper!

[@metaldessert2492]

im not sorry for loving u part has the flute from the wind god playing in the background

[@TheDTSZ]

So since you brought up the fact that the synth in dangerous is similar to thunder bringer, my guess is since Hermes is messenger to the gods he’s pretty much passing along Zeus’ message to Odysseus, compared to wouldn’t you like where it was Hermes doing this of his own accord just to mess with Circe, so it makes sense that they sound similar

[@justinwhite915]

Hey Casper, occording to my findings Calypso was the daughter of the titain Atlis. During the war of the gods and titans she chose to support her father. As a concequence she was banished to this island. It is the only place that she is allowed to exist, essentially a prison. If we considering that Odissious was sent to the island as a punishment this could be seen as cruel to both him and her. In my mind though Odi has no obligation to her, her situation is still trageic. I