The Very Rare Union Semiauto Revolver from Ohio

[@hanklestank]

I think the reasoning behind the majority of the firearms Ian covers is the exact opposite of why people climb Everest. “Why? Because it wasn’t there my good man!”

[@davidweikle9921]

Well, the channel is called *Forgotten Weapons,* so...

[@hanklestank]

Haha no, I meant why the inventors created the thing in the first place! Not why Ian reviews them :)

[@zendell37]

Yeah. It's like the productive side of marketing. You're not telling someone they have a problem and you're solving it. You're just giving a different approach. One that usually has a reason for not existing

[@TheCat48488]

Reverse psychology

[@trooperdgb9722]

@@zendell37 Ian has said in the past there are often good reasons why certain guns BECOME "Forgotten" lol

[@mrkeogh]

Holy Toldeo, somebody had fun designing that gun...

[@joshuaford4460]

When you give the ancestors of keltec engineers a field day...

[@josiahgibson6373]

Best pun on KZbin today. You win an internet cookie.

[@wrathmachine7609]

In a small package too.

[@stevestrash1791]

Die Hard 3 References, In this Economy?!?!?

[@GreatgoatonFire]

The never ending quest for a Mateba Unica video remains unfulfilled.

[@tamlandipper29]

The what now?

[@GreatgoatonFire]

@@tamlandipper29 The Mateba Unica autorevolver. Look it up.

[@andersbendsen5931]

@@GreatgoatonFire go to anvil, and have your dream fulfilled. 😎

[@peppermillers8361]

There's plenty of good videos on it. It's not that unknown.

[@mikemeyer4800]

Life size potato has every model. Look him up. Plenty of videos on youtube

[@jeffreyholdeman3042]

Much like OHIO, this gun is round on both ends and HI in the middle. I’ll show myself out.....

[@adamwest8711]

Were you actually a ranger?

[@katelynneshouse2834]

🤣

[@andersjjensen]

bad_joke_eel_meme.jpg

[@robashley8216]

As an Ohioan I appreciated that dad joke

[@jeffreyholdeman3042]

@@adamwest8711 seems like a lifetime ago but yes.

[@petesheppard1709]

To the eye, it looks like a Chief's Special was caught morphing into a Bodyguard.

[@Omniseed]

But stepfather Harrington & Richardson .32 finished the dirty job

[@GR46404]

A Spanish company named Zulaica made an automatic revolver in 25 ACP. I don't know how many they made, but it was apparently offered for commercial sale, and not just a prototype. Zulaica was one of the many gunmakers in the Basque region of Spain before the Spanish Civil War. I have one of their Ruby type 32 automatics. Mine is in good condition, but it is otherwise a very ordinary example of the type.

[@lairdcummings9092]

Thank you for addressing the handling - that was the first question that popped into my head.

[@dbmail545]

A rather elegant iteration of a flawed concept. A conventional autoloading pistol is cheaper to manufacture and much less fragile. I totally understand Ian's fascination with this type of weapon.

[@dancortes3062]

I never heard of the Union Firearms before. The way Ian describes them almost makes it sound like they was the original Kel-Tec.

[@Sosaparks]

If they were the ones making things like this, they might’ve been 😂

[@hoagielamp6543]

Kel-Tec must have learned some things from Union because Union has the worst designs I've ever seen when it comes to prolific firearms companies.

[@kili7728]

The cylinder turning mechanism reminds me of nerf revolvers where there is a similar round pin like thing that either pushes to turn the cylinder or pulls to turn it

[@lairdcummings9092]

I would be unsurprised to learn that they were using the same system; the patent on these has to have long expired.

[@dualsportrider3221]

Now the atf is coming for my kids toys, thanks man

[@3a.m.284]

@@kili7728 I agree

[@tamlandipper29]

A man of civilisation and culture.

[@gonzalogutierrez510]

@Two Brick Tommy I mean, if you're not in any list, are you really living to the fullest?

[@NovaXP]

From the title I thought Union meant like The Union in the American Civil War and thought they had some rare semi-auto tech for a second

[@SlavicCelery]

I'm pretty sure they ended up merging with Remington at some point in time. Thus Union Metallic Cartridge. Thus UMC/Remington ammo.

[@baron3904]

Yup same. Not far fetched they had some relatively rapid fire in their arsenal

[@beurksman]

I thought that until he said 1909 :D

[@SiSi-rf8hj]

Union Firearms: So, how high would you like the bore axis to be? Me: YES

[@bikerbobcat]

More! MORE!

[@kelvinbrown8136]

This is particularly ironic considering the Mateba mention.

[@sbb_quickshooter4461]

Take one of these and make it fire from the bottom chamber like a Chiappa Rhino or something and you might actually have a pretty decent gun.

[@boymahina123]

@@sbb_quickshooter4461 Basically the Mateba Model 6 Unica. Think that gun but with a Chiappa Rhino "upper"

[@LoaFrz]

Un-expecting revolver enthusiast:“It’s all Ohio?!” One random Ohioan:“It always was..” (Edited to fix spelling)

[@ReverendMeat51]

And they both happen to be astronauts, crazy

[@Markus__B]

I think i spotted a tiny mistake at 4:19 the pin rides along the small registering groove during recoil, jumps over to the closest angled groove (that´s why it is springloaded) at the end and then turns and registers the cylinder during the forward motion. Really a fascinating idea.

[@nutbastard]

You are correct. I noticed that too.

[@keithklassen5320]

Not so much a mistake as an omission, but he definitely should have mentioned that cuz it's cool as heck.

[@hanktorrance6855]

Very cool answer to the desire for semi auto function and the comfort and familiar style of the revolver

[@richwhitaker1506]

Seems you could have interchangeable caliber uppers which would simply slide into place on the grip/trigger group. Upper would include appropriate recoil spring.

[@trentoniousmaximus6299]

I've been waiting for an update on this gun for so long.

[@johnn8223]

As a Toledoan: Suck it, every other city in Ohio, we got on Forgotten Weapons and you didn't.

[@jeffslote9671]

The only thing you have to brag about

[@fancyultrafresh3264]

But....at what cost....

[@TheArkTheArkTheArk]

Yeah but we clevelanders have the rock and roll hall of fame! Oh who am I kidding, that place sucks. I wish we had a gun :(

[@jeffslote9671]

@@TheArkTheArkTheArk You also lead in river fires, beer riots, and balloon disasters. Plus you have the factory of sadness

[@kpenguin]

Mansfield has the Hi-Point, has he ever reviewed one of them?

[@Die-CastMetal]

Is it possible the color of the grips darkened over the years now looking more black than red?

[@Morbacounet]

Unlikely, the color seems to be uniform.

[@adamwest8711]

I guess it’s possible but not very probable. It’s a cool theory though.

[@dbmail545]

Actually, I think the red grips would have deteriorated much faster. The old red rubber that I have seen fades and cracks as it ages.

[@andersbendsen5931]

@@dbmail545 also my observation.

[@GunFunZS]

@@dbmail545 agreed

[@The1trueJester]

Its uncanny how pertinent this video is. Spent the better part of yesterday afternoon debating with my dad if the Landstadt 1900 is classified as a revolver, that lead down a rabbit hole of semiautomatic revolvers, and then Gun Jesus blesses us with this video. Keep up the great work, we appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us

[@MrCarGuy]

Always appreciate any redoing of old videos with the much superior camera

[@sindarpeacheyeisacommie8688]

Automatic revolvers...the answer to a question nobody asked.

[@ajricho8534]

So the were basically the KelTec of the past.

[@jamesallred460]

What a funky looking gun. Great vid as always Ian.

[@GunSam]

Very nice, simple and robust. I like how there's no traditional hand and those sturdy cams.

[@SolidSioux1987]

The only good part of Monday morning is a hot cup of coffee and a weird new firearm from Ian.

[@andersbendsen5931]

I love me a hot cup of coffee, but I have to make that myself. Ian's videos, though, just come up without my involvement. 🤷‍♂️

[@stevesimpson4935]

I believe you need to revisit the function of the device you call the hand. That part is not close to the cylinder to hold it in time when the gun is in battery. I believe I can see the pin at the rear edge of the cylinder when the gun is in battery. The spring loaded pin is holding the timing and as the cylinder moves under recoil the pin is pushed down by the ramp in the timing groove and the pops back up into the ramped groove to advance the cylinder. It ends back up in the timing groove for the next chamber. The hand on the other part is somehow attached to the trigger and may serve as a dis-connector or maybe it holds time during recoil after the spring pin drops out of the timing slot to make sure the cylinder does not rotate so the pin misses the rotating groove. I did not see a view that showed enough to make a call.

[@Jesses001]

Out of the three primary self-cocking revolvers, I like this design the best. It is one of the most simple and one of the most steam-line of the designs. It solves a lot of the problems of the Fosbery while being far more steam-line then the Mateba. All that being said, these revolvers are solving a problem that auto-loaders solved a long time ago, and for a price that is hire than either revolvers or sem-autos.

[@kilamb8380]

Today Ian review the .32 pistol that he found from Capital Wasteland

[@peppermillers8361]

A very deformed version of that.

[@zelpyzelp]

Nah the 32 Pistol in Fallout 3 is an old S&W or Iver Johnson (some flavor of generic 32 topbreak)

[@peppermillers8361]

@@zelpyzelp pretty sure it's a S&W.

[@korbetthein3072]

@@peppermillers8361 they really do look more like the Iver Johnsons as opposed to S&W.

[@peppermillers8361]

@@korbetthein3072 except that it has the S&W logo, but it does resemble the Johnson revolver.

[@matthewplayer8337]

But why! Lol. I wish we had more info on the strange homebrew auto revolver you covered about a year ago. Steampunk before steampunk was cool. Overly complicated but it was beautiful. Thanks for the great videos!

[@normtrooper4392]

I remember that one! It was a real beauty. Shame we never found out more about it

[@tamlandipper29]

The auto Webley? Or did I imagine that?

[@normtrooper4392]

@@tamlandipper29 there was an auto Webley but I think we're talking about the strange homemade auto revolver

[@donjones4719]

But why? Well, I figure there was a market for people who didn't trust the new-fangled automatics, as too jam prone - a fair concern back then. Who were familiar with their reliable revolvers and didn't want to change... much. But did want a SA pull on each shot. The functioning was visibly easy to understand, unlike the mysterious autos.

[@widgren87]

Looks like a cross between a Webley Fosbery, a Schofield and a Broomhandle... I kinda like it.

[@super00su]

I want some one to make a fully automatic version.

[@davidweikle9921]

Get an SOT and you can do it witbout losing your dog too.

[@Matty_Joe]

@@davidweikle9921 (The ATF.)

[@davidweikle9921]

@@Matty_Joe huh?

[@tiortedrootsky]

Another benefit of this system is you can strike the primer second time safely in case of misfire. If you have a hangfire when you are dumping all you get, you can have the cartridge go off when its not alligned with the barrel.

[@Salieri47]

I'm a new subscriber, and I plan to check out more of your videos. FWIW I wound up here because your channel is frequently mentioned in the comments on Paul Harrell's channel (great company, IMO).

[@ericmccallister6873]

To give you an idea of it's scarcity, I grew up in Toledo not far from where the factory was located. I've come across countless Colt .25acp semi-autos and have never once seen or even heard of a Union semiauto revolver.

[@MrCarGuy]

This could definitely be redesigned today to have a much lower bore axis and would be a sweet shooter

[@TheScoundrel70]

What a surprisingly simple, yet thoroughly thought out semi-auto revolver concept. Perhaps a little lacking on the ergonomics and aesthetics, but even so, it has some very sensible and clever design features. Being that tall, it would have been a great candidate for the "upside down barrel" concept that fires from the bottom of the cylinder than the top. Thanks Ian, this was very cool!

[@aidanfarnan4683]

I'm amazed they weren't sued by Fosbury, other than the fact you can't send the upper back without pulling the trigger, that's almost a carbon copy of his patent. Then again if they only made 300, maybe he and Webley never found out.

[@MrPanzerDragoon]

I am continuously amazed by the ingenuity with these rare guns. Clever, just clever! Please share more! Thanks for the video.

[@leppeppel]

0:53 Sounds like the Kel-Tec of their day.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

Such a beautiful, graceful and flowing design. I cannot imagine how this wasn't a smashing success.

[@9mmpeter255]

This would be a sweet concealed carry piece, better than the shield plus.

[@billsummy2412]

A-HA ... your looking at the NEXT StarWars movie blaster :)

[@alexguymon7117]

If you ever get the chance, I would love to see you a video on a Mateba Autorevolver. It's such a funky design with all these ingenious and oddball design choices

[@skepticalbadger]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mprTi5inlLVpe9k

[@alexantonie1144]

The union, the rarest of all of them. The webley, the best known of all of them. And the mateba, the most anime of all of them.

[@thishonestgrifter]

TFW everybody thinks the Mateba is Japanese because it was in Ghost in the Shell.

[@parzavaal5335]

@@thishonestgrifter ah I was wondering where I remembered it from

[@zf9903]

The main protagonist in Trigun also uses something whose closest real-life example is a Mateba.

[@Lexrockstheblock]

I didn't expect much from such a dinkly looking gun... But the racking sound of that action is just crunchy and beefy as all get out, I give it an A+

[@trooperdgb9722]

Amazing resemblance from the cylinder forward to those old nickeled "pocket" pistols....Like the H&R Top break 5 shot 32 S&W I once had...(Model 3??) The sights and the cylinder latch as well as the barrel style....

[@razieldrakis]

Saw one of these on GunBroker once.

[@thespecialbru]

I’ve seen one two or three times and assumed it was of no value. OOPS

[@jayzenitram9621]

Do you remember how much it sold for?

[@davidhamilton7628]

Man let's see it at the range!

[@michaelmosher6755]

Nice FW and coffee kinda Monday 👑

[@bigdawg9743]

This looks like a starting weapon in an RPG.

[@whisperoftheworm6479]

Last time I was this early the zip 22 was a good idea

[@SlavicCelery]

Really? I mean...really? I can't argue entirely with your hot take. But, was it ever a good idea?

[@andersjjensen]

@@SlavicCelery He is trying to say that he has never been this early before..

[@SlavicCelery]

@@andersjjensen Yeah I get that. But was it ever a good idea? The question still remains. It took a whole company (successful mind you), down.

[@andersjjensen]

@@SlavicCelery No, it was never a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. That was the joke all along :P

[@SlavicCelery]

@@andersjjensen Indeed it was

[@pbs1516]

Thanks to this ingenious, utterly high design, you can fire from the hip WHILE using the iron sights. How cool!

[@sixtofive]

That's a really interesting design

[@milkapeismilky5464]

Best thing about being up early enough to catch this video right after release? Going back to 😴

[@adamwest8711]

I really, and I can’t emphasise this enough, *hate* your username.

[@milkapeismilky5464]

@@adamwest8711 and my job is done here... Headed to your mom's house

[@andersjjensen]

For the gun connoisseur who has both a revolver and a pistol we bring you: THE REVOLVERPISTOL! Get the combined weight of both along with the least desirable mechanisms from each!

[@sethbuchanan1566]

A little known bit of trivia concerning these pistols is that Corporal Maxwell Q. Klinger carried one as his personal sidearm.

[@2001eloc]

If there is a semi auto revolver that means there is a full auto revolver...

[@keithallardice6139]

Super cool and .. spectacularly unsuccessful - succinctly summarised, Ian, but very interesting as always :-)

[@nilo70]

This is one of the reasons I like this channel , the weirdys. There are so many of them !

[@myoptik3x103]

Such a odd little pistol. I would absolutely love to try shooting this design.

[@JohnTBlock]

Like the Webley-Fosberry, very Steam-punkish... very cool, in a nerdy way...what was a Colt 1903 running, brand new? Hmmm...

[@earlahmer5528]

I'd take the trade of a harder trigger pull on a double action over the extra packaging

[@adamhuberty3442]

Thank you for the price comparison in situa. When historians invest that little extra step it's really helpful, because calculating inflation vs purchasing power is tricky. This thing actually sounded appropriately priced, given the price of small caliber ccw guns today, when just adjusted for inflation. But the purchasing power side is always much harder to work out.

[@DarkestVampire92]

This would be REALLY neat with a 6 o'clock barrel and a striker. Brings the bore down, removes another thing that can snag or get cruddy.

[@loupiscanis9449]

Thank you , Ian .

[@Pcm979]

I heard that the lack of a traditional hand was because the recoil tended to break them. I can't get my head around how the Mateba solved that problem, even though I've seen Mark Novak take one apart.

[@keepyourbilsteins]

This a super neato item. Geeking out on the mechanism.

[@RiderOftheNorth1968]

The quest for aiming down the sights while hip shooting!

[@kfeltenberger]

It appears the DA/SA Semi auto argument started in the early 1900s...

[@leighrate]

It's a pity they didn't have economy of scale with it so as to make the price competitive, because handled correctly it gives the speed of a semiautomatic with the reliability of a revolver. Given the reliability, or lack thereof of the semiautomatic pistols if the time, this could have been a game changer. Off the top of my head I can see a couple of possible ways you might lower the bore axis.

[@zendell37]

So why weren't zigzag revolvers more common? Instead of a hand and a detent, you have the alignment pin sliding back and forth. Was the machining just more expensive for this sort of thing versus the teeth and detent slots of a traditional cylinder?

[@philipleiser2090]

I've lived in the Toledo area all of my 46 years....never heard of the company let alone of this crazy thing... Best gun content on KZbin, hands down. O H I O!

[@AllAhabNoMoby]

I would like this in a 3" 500 S&W Magnum.

[@lurpelis3272]

I was thinking "this is a cool idea before semi-auto pistols were a thing" but then he said it was designed in the 1900s and I just wondered what the purpose is.

[@implausibleimpossiblehypot4006]

Looks like Robocops pistol in another universe

[@thelastjohnwayne]

That is totally an Ivers Johnson upper

[@korbetthein3072]

Nice! I've been waiting for you to do a better video on these!

[@ONTHEPASSWITHMAX]

Great video! What year was this in production? Was this before or after the Webley-Fosbery?

[@Simon_Nonymous]

After - Ian says so at about 5:10,

[@TheFanatical1]

Ten dollars in 1909, so presumably a little bit before that.

[@johnjamieson6368]

I have an Iver Johnson in .32 s&w, the double action trigger is soo hard, you would be lucky to hit anything at 15 ft. A self cocking pocket pistol, with a lighter trigger pull would be advantagouse.

[@andrewatrashman5125]

It looks like if the C96 and the Zig Zag revolver had a baby.

[@caspergear]

When are we going to get a Mateba video Steve

[@randomidiot8142]

The tracks on the cylinder look like they were cut with a woodruff key cutter, I think I like the look of this vs the end milled fosbery. Looks a little more aggressive and less steampunk, but the fos does have better lines overall.

[@chuckbridgeland6181]

solves a problem, that really doesn't need solving.

[@gregcampwriter]

There's a part of me that wants one of those to carry as a backup gun.

[@ZeroSuitSamo]

There is also something to be said about the recoil absorption by having the cylinder and barrel slide back. With a caliber that small its probably not very noticeable, nor very important, but having fired a normal 44 magnum a few times, I can tell you that my Mateba is much more pleasant to shoot. I'd love to find and shoot a 454 model someday, but I doubt that will ever happen

[@sixtofive]

We definitely need slow-mo firing footage!

[@JerryEricsson]

Looks like the designer had a bit of Rube Goldberg blood flowing through his veins.

[@Carmoflage]

Immagine this with a drum that gets pushed to the side to reload, and the hole "cocking mechanism" build on top , with the barrel at the lowest port of the drum, so recoil would go straigt in the center line of the arm...

[@patrikhjorth3291]

This reminds me of a gun I saw in a video game a few years ago. That gun was _very_ closely based on the mateba pistols, though. It had two versions, one semi-automatic and one burst firing. I don't even know if a burst firing revolver is technically possible, and I can't imagine that it would be useful IRL. The gun in the game wasn't terribly useful either. Once you were able to have it, the enemies were too strong to take much damage even from three rounds of .357 Magnum, and since you could only shoot twice before reloading... you were better off using bigger guns.

[@MagnitudeUK]

That's a remarkably charming design with beautiful mechanics. I'm almost tempted to hang a print of the patent on my wall. It's suitably practical, Whacky and ridiculous, But a genius design for it's time.

[@dutchmrtibbs981]

you and jonathan from the royal armouries museum would make a good team

[@445supermag]

The diassembly mechanism is slick, some semiautos could use that potentially.

[@Simon_Nonymous]

I love these quirky things - usually at the end when Ian tells us that it cost as much as an auto pistol that was smaller and carried twice the ammo, that's why they never took off.

[@StrangerOman]

So this is basically semi-auto Schofield revolver. This is awesome :O

[@stevewelch5012]

I have always enjoyed your videos. Thanks a lot.

[@SlavicCelery]

I got a LaFever, and it's only cure is more misshapen revolvers!

[@RVM451]

Ian, I'm puzzled. When the firing cycle starts, the Stud is in the STRAIGHT PART of the Groove, WHAT forces it into the long diagonal groove that rotates the cylinder? It looks like that it would stay in the front groove till it came to the dead end and locked up the gun.

[@sirdovermeyer]

Hey my city did something in the Firearms industry. Nice!

[@thompsonjerry3412]

I think that you may be in error about the lover behind the cylinder, it looks as though it may be the trigger reset.

[@fredbloggs5902]

Lovers behind the cylinder make the best lovers.