The Windy Hill Foundry Square: Milling and Grinding a Casting Parallel and Square

[@1ttanker]

Keith, some of these nay Sayers do realize you are a hobbyist? A person of knowledge readily willing to share openly because you actually have a different job? Just because you don't utilize some fancy C & C setup and choose to show old school does not mean you are wrong. Besides I prefer old school techniques to get a result. You just keep doing what you do because many enjoy your content. I will readily keep watching as I have done for over a year or two

[@tpobrienjr]

I would expect, given different circumstances, Mr Rucker would be showing us how to build good accurate tooling with a hacksaw and a chunk of flint. Thanks for the show, Keith.

[@thehaplesshobbyist1068]

I have to agree with you Donald, i'm by no means an engineer or a mathematician i just have an avid interest in the lathe and the old school descriptions about setups and the like suit me down to the ground.

[@SuperAWaC]

there are shit talkers who you just ignore and then there are also people giving valid criticisms when they notice mistakes being made. i saw someone call robin renzetti a nay-sayer in the comments once when he was giving valid feedback. shit talkers on one side, sycophantic laymen on the other side.

[@mpetersen6]

@@SuperAWaC There are always people who don't really know anything offering advice. Opinions are like a well known body orifice. Everybody's got one. The smart ones just keep them to themselves

[@turningpoint6643]

Wow you guy's would never make it in the mining or logging industry's. Your judged on every single thing you do by your peers and most are extremely experienced. Any serious mistake makes you an instant target for sometimes weeks of derision and laughter if it was bad enough. I've spent over 40 years listening to criticism. You tune out those who don't know what there talking about and for the ones that do you treat that as a positive learning experience no matter how strongly it's worded. I consider myself very lucky to have gotten all the criticism I did so I could learn from my mistakes.

[@SolidRockMachineShopInc]

Nice job Keith! Looks like you are getting very good results on that old grinder. I am happy to see you are using our tools. Thanks for the shout out. Steve

[@harrydelong867]

I do no machining but I do enjoy watching. I enjoy the videos.

[@Christopher.C123]

Excellent quality casting . Windy Hill Foundry most certainly know some secrets and techniques about casting to be this good , very little to machine off and not an impurity to be seen.

[@MrShobar]

Their secret: Only the finest quality casting materials are used. "Virgin" worn-out brake disks from the local auto shop.

[@Christopher.C123]

@@MrShobar .Yes correct .Watched the 2 videos Adam uploaded , they do put a little bit of a few other ingredients in the mix to get every thing just right .

[@paulcopeland9035]

@@MrShobar ....Those "worn-out" brake disks are, in fact, some of the finest quality materials. If you have ever been to a large foundry, you will be surprised/shocked at the variety of cast iron trash they process. Brake disks are gray cast iron with a higher % of carbon than everyday cast pieces. Brake disks are an excellent choice for his tool castings

[@kennethgilbertdds7249]

Thank you for taking time and energy to post these lessons for us.

[@MurphysSidekic]

I got my set of square castings from Clarke this weekend and started machining the first one. What I like most about machining is that almost no two people will approach the same job from the same way. Thanks for sharing!

[@prodoverjeff2876]

You are absolutely correct. When we machine something, we do the best we can with the equipment and tools we have available. Keith has some pretty old machines, but I have seen some of his restoration work, and the rest he accomplishes by thinking carefully about each stage of producing the thing he needs. He might be a hobbyist, but I am a lifer who has worked too many times with guys who just won't think of how to get the job done with what we have in the shop.

[@sbanta22]

Love your videos and your work sir. As a hobbyist machinist(formality a professional in training) I find a great deal of information and even more enjoyment in all of your videos. You keep filming and I’ll keep watching. Thank you good sir.

[@sleeptyper]

It might be one of machinist's daily routines, but for example 5:45 is in my opinion an awesome example of thinking outside the box - because i'm not a machinist. Good stuff!

[@mikecabe6127]

Another good job Kieth.....Great casting by Clark!!!!!

[@williamelliott5041]

Thanks Keith, great video. Wish my dad was still here to teach me these techniques. Your teaching reminds me of him often.

[@ianmurray2637]

I'm not innately familiar with machining, was aware of surface grinding and have seen a few brief examples, but this vid stepped it ou for me. TYVM Keith & co :)

[@bcbloc02]

I definitely can see some good uses for a thick square like that.

[@davidhamilton7628]

Hey Keith great video and job

[@elsdp-4560]

THANK YOU...for sharing. Very nice.

[@fredclark4033]

Keith, Great to see the precession finish on the square, takes a lot of time to get it right.

[@assessor1276]

Very nicely done Keith.

[@douglynch8442]

Amazed at the amount of work to have a square and true tool... great video, thanks!

[@homeryoung7436]

Thanks Keith

[@SciPunk215]

I love the precision !

[@ts7113]

Not bad for repurposed brake rotors!!! Very nice!

[@paulcopeland9035]

"repurposed brake rotors" are a premium material for casting. They are clean gray iron with a high carbon content. They are perfect for his type of casting.

[@prodoverjeff2876]

I just watched Abom milling the same squares. Seeing the two back to back makes it clear why gauge makers charge different prices for different levels of precision. Milling gets you so far, grinding kicks it up a notch. Then lapping or scraping. And each operation boosts man hours which drives the price.

[@petergamache5368]

That stickiness on the surface plate is a testament to how good your grinding job was! You were probably wringing the surfaces together by sliding them.

[@JFirn86Q]

Very nice result! Learned a few tricks watching this. Thank you for sharing.

[@chrisoverman7551]

Greetings from the UK

[@Hoaxer51]

chris overman, hope things are going well over there, greetings friend, from the US!

[@jboos6256]

sehr gut gezeigt, weiter so!!👍

[@matthewhelton1725]

Great video, and good explanation of milling and grinding.

[@billchiasson2019]

Great video! Came out amazing! Thanks for doing the video!

[@MikeHarris1984]

Found this as I'm watching ABOM machine the 12. great little square!

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Keith yes l know Clark.....l am a Gold Smith by trade, l am 77 years old now....Thanks Keith love watching you work....!

[@jerrycoleman2610]

Keith, Really liked how your square turned out and enjoyed watching your video thanks and for sharing your video.!.!.!.

[@thehaplesshobbyist1068]

Keith I love the videos i gone back to videos more than once as there are always tips and tricks i pick up after watching a second time.

[@donaldnaymon3270]

Great video. Super nice work. Excellent turn out. Thank you for sharing.

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

very good video--thanks for your time

[@bulletproofpepper2]

Thanks for sharing

[@thomaschandler8036]

Good job. enjoyed the video

[@GeorgeWMays]

Neat project. Neatness is its own reward. Thanks for the video. :-)

[@cri8tor]

Great video. Thank you for taking the time to record, edit and share. Cheers

[@nikond90ful1]

Thanks for the video. Keep safe and stay well.

[@clydebalcom8252]

I finished Abom79's series on these machinists squares. I like the different approach to how y'all work.

[@neila2953]

Great job, nice bit of machining. I do also like the detail in the casting. Should have no issue selling those.

[@malcolmtuck565]

Hi Keith. Loved the machining of the square casting. I didn't realise that there would be that much difference in accuracy between a mill and a surface grinder. I had assumed the mill would be within a few thou but I think you said there was about 20 thou difference across the surface of the square. Anyway I thoroughly enjoy watching and learning something new alimost every time I watch your recordings. Malcolm

[@johnmanning4577]

Hi, Keith...Here is a copy of a note I just sent to McMaster-Carr. Thank you "Thank you very much. My items arrived just as promised. "This is my first experience with McMaster-Carr and I found it extremely satisfying. I watch Keith Rucker's KZbin presentations and had the impression that it would be, and it was. "Your website is the best I've seen for my needs. I'm a hunter more than a shopper so I get a little annoyed when I'm bombarded with "suggestions." Especially when what I'm really looking for is hard to find. Your site is well laid out, easy to filter for sizes and choices, and once the "hunting" is done, all the product information is fully available for review before adding item to cart. "The only teeny concern that I felt was not knowing upfront the cost of shipping. But with the trust I've come to place upon Keith Rucker's judgement, I pressed the button and was relieved to learn that your shipping charges are quite reasonable. As you know, there are firms out there who charge many multiples of the actual shipping rate. "Just want to let you know what a pleasure it was to deal with you. "

[@henrymorgan3982]

Great teacher. Thank you.

[@carltonlane8931]

Wow enjoyed.

[@guykulwanoski1629]

Awesome project. Thank you for sharing. Stay safe & God Bless!

[@boobleskizzy]

Looks great 👍 hi from Missouri

[@outsidescrewball]

Enjoyed

[@chriscromer2308]

Nice job

[@toolbox-gua]

Enjoyed every bit. Thank You.

[@garthbutton699]

I really enjoyed your content today and have a lot of respect for your knowledge.

[@carloscordero4204]

Great work Keith nice seeing good tool making good tools ! I like watching your videos ! Thanks

[@marvtomson574]

13:30 it looks like the next machine that needs to follow you home is a small *Blanchard Grinder* to take care of that unevenness

[@MaturePatriot]

Very nice looking square. Will definitely have to contact the foundry about one of those. Keith, I am an old school manual machining hobbyist. I occasionally watch CNC videos because they have very interesting crashes. LOL

[@timdouglass9831]

For those questioning the positioning of the dressing diamond - look at the angle of the grit being thrown. It will always be tangent to the wheel at the point of contact. Looking at about 24:15 it looks like the grit is rising slightly, which would indicate the diamond point is on the egress side of the wheel and slightly past dead center. I seem to remember Keith saying something about that once before in a video, but it may have been someone else. Either way, it looks to me like we are being fooled by the camera angle.

[@tomeyssen9674]

Wow! Looks good.

[@stancloyd]

I ordered one.

[@charlesgause8224]

Nice as usual

[@bobwitt305]

Why did you use your wrench as a hammer? Keith: Because I had my wrench in my hand.

[@Clough42]

Guilty.

[@unitwoodworking5403]

👍👍👍Thanks for useful tips and detailed information.

[@aar4287]

Hi Keith Great Video . I would like to try and machine one too. You used a face mill on the vertical milling machine around minute 2:00 do you know the insert size I may have some I can send you.

[@martineastburn3679]

Nicely done. I might suggest on the Horz mill to pull the table away from the cutter before moving it to the other end. Might have a snarl cutter that puts in marks on a clean cut. Cast might have hidden hard spots that cause chips on cutters.

[@Robonthemoor]

just a thought before you dive in with the grinder,, have a measure with a hight gauge & mark the high spots with a sharpie. that way you won't crash into it as you did. Great job. A nice project I like the setup.

[@carlthor91]

Very nice square. Any more machine rebuilds in the pipeline? Cheers all

[@sshep7119]

A threaded hole at the ends would have been a nice feature in the event you wanted to attach a handle, indicator, and other accessory to the square. It would be the ideal time to do it considering that it is only ground and not lapped or scrapped yet, and since the parallelism is not ground into the part you would be able to ensure parallel clamping with the face.

[@prodoverjeff2876]

That material looks like some very nice stuff to work on. Very machinable, good to grind and it takes such a nice finish. Please let us know if somebody adds lapping to the process. I think those squares would look like mirrors.

[@stanshankman6997]

Time for a little woodworking project. Set's see a custom storage box. :-)

[@davidhughes8539]

It would be cool if he put two through holes in the web to add two strips of delrin or phenolic for handling insulation. Great video, thanks Keith

[@BravoCharleses]

By that do you mean insulating it from the heat of your hands?

[@davidhughes8539]

@@BravoCharleses yes

[@melgross]

Why? These aren’t high precision measuring tools. They are tool room precision. Enough for normal use. The mass of the tool is also enough to absorb the small amount of heat your fingers will leave.

[@davidhughes8539]

Mel Gross I think it would look cool, like I said. And they are as precise as you make them.

[@sergio29552]

Mr Keith you all ways make me think twice when I have my set up ready to machine it because I watch your videos just for the heck of to find some sources but rapidly realized that my set up is not wrong but it could be better thank you for all this years of prof me wrong ahahahahahahahahahhaahah

[@mealex303]

Nice

[@WilliamTMusil]

Hiya Keith

[@RobertKohut]

Nice!!

[@BenButler1]

Good stuff Keith. Do you chamfer the edges of that square or leave the sharp corners?

[@mpetersen6]

I'm not surprised that the milled surfaces weren't even. Distortion from the mill set up. It happens. There are things you can do to reduce it. Such as slipping shim stock under the areas with gaps. On the grinding operation myself I would have set up on magnetic parallels that were ground in place so that I had a surface as flat as the grinder could produce. The secret here is to not turn the magnet off too release the parts or the parallels. I used to grind thin walled bearing spacers to .00005 or better in parallelism on a continual basis.

[@bowez9]

Having thrown work off a magnet, I disagree with put hand on discharge side of wheel and not blocking around the work, especially given the spacing on that magnet. Yes I've had magnets fail in the middle of grinding.

[@rubarb0406]

Keith, when you stated that you were using a wheel specifically designed for cast iron, what are the specifications please? Yet another great video!

[@TERRYRONALDRACKLEY]

The best thing I learned in machining was the touch off. I would guess and be too deep or not even touching. Then the backlash and conventional milling and climbing milling.

[@1000BARGE]

When grinding flar does your magnet have a residual feature?

[@1000BARGE]

Flat

[@JimWhitaker]

Interesting, thank you. I've come over here because Adam has said in a recent video that he is going to square up his example using a different approach. It's that shaper again. Looking forward to seeing the different methods.

[@paulwomack5866]

Yikes - at the end when you were handling the new square on the surface plate, I kept thinking you were going to cut yourself. I mean, you can call it surface grinding if you like, but it was a perfectly good sharpening operation too. Had you (off camera) softened the arrises to be less ... lethal?

[@douglaspierce316]

I am also happy for the fast moving machine. I bet you wish you did it long time ago. time is always shorter after the job is done. thanks

[@stuarthardy4626]

Keith What are your views on casting ageing when I was in work the old timers (hark at me I am 73 )used to say leave them out side in the sunlight for a year to stress relieve I know the modern way is to heat treat in a Lear , they always put the spun cast iron pipes though a huge Lear at the iron works where I served my time , I believe it was a old practice to bury the steel used in jo blocks for a year

[@JaakkoF]

It has been shown numerous times that 'aging' outside doesn't do much at all to the stresses in the parts, mostly 10-15 % might fade away. The only way of properly getting it stress relieved is with heat treatment.

[@waynespyker5731]

Some of our customers required a 'cold treat' before grinding hardened tool steel.

[@samueltaylor4989]

Now you have to scrape it!

[@rennkafer13]

After the planer I think Keith has had enough scraping for a while. :)

[@phillipyannone3195]

You never mentioned de burring after milling, maybe that goes without saying but if you didn't that may account for .010" inaccuracy coming off the mill. Also I was taught that your diamond dresser should be leaning away from wheel rotation and be in front of the wheel.

[@rennkafer13]

Agreed on the dresser, that's how I was taught too. Plus I'd put it "downwind" of the part you have set up so you don't blow grit all over the part you're going to grind.

[@cschwad559]

I don’t recall if you stated it, but what grade of grinding wheel are you using?

[@bigbob1699]

Should you have stress relieved the part ?

[@Clough42]

Windy Hill Foundry advertises the castings as already stress-relieved and ready for machining.

[@paulsilva3346]

Keith, when you get to 50 millionths of an inch aren't you supposed to use temperature to calculate true measurement?? Well done time well spent, thank you I enjoyed this video as usual.

[@turningpoint6643]

Squareness checking is just that, for something where it's exact physical size is important then yes it's temperature could have a large effect. For checking squareness then as long as the tool was thermally stabilized to roughly the same temperature throughout it's cross section and approximately at normal room temperature then the measurements and tool can be trusted. Since there's no such thing as absolute perfection then sometimes good enough will do. That square is still pretty damn accurate for a home shop and you'd have to spend some large money to buy anything better.

[@paulsilva3346]

@@turningpoint6643 -Oh thanks for telling me what I know... My attempt at complimenting his work indirectly by implying his work is so GOOD he should use temperature controls has been overlooked. Sigh...

[@turningpoint6643]

@@paulsilva3346 And thanks for letting me know I need to learn to be a mind reader. When you add question marks that does turn it into a question now doesn't it.

[@garymucher9590]

Since I have never ever surfaced grind ed anything, I have a question of wonder. As you surface grind anything, doesn't the grind stone itself also wear off throughout the process? And if so, the beginning of a grind would be lower (more taken off) then the end of the grind. IDK?

[@migtrewornan8085]

Yep, that's why you have to keep the stone dressed regularly and let it "spark out".

[@5x535]

@@mechanicalTurk0 I got it, turk

[@andyb7963]

It's ground, not grinded

[@WayneJohnsonZastil]

Does heating just from different temps make it go out and in all time?

[@michael931]

I was wondering if the web between the two sides helps or hurts that. It would be easy for him to test it at different temperatures.

[@januarioqueiroz3122]

😊👍

[@tano1747]

Maybe I'm missing something, but (after the facing cuts) I would have clamped it flat on the table of the vertical mill (on a spacer to keep it up off the table), and run around the two long sides and two ends in one setup. Pretty hard for it to finish anything other than dead nuts square after that isn't it (since you normally expect your x and y axes to be square)?

[@jaytalbot1146]

But then you'd be cutting through scale with an end mill while Keith used a really beefy insert face mill. Personally I'd have considered using a HHS fly cutter and resharpening freehand after it got beat to hell. Though If I was making a soft iron square I'd be tempted to make three and hand scrape them to final squareness (but not at $130 a pop for raw casting) Partly just for the heck of it and partly because I don't have a precision "cube" so grinding setup (and final checking) wouldn't be so easy, not sure I trust my Chinese 2,4,6 blocks all that much..

[@tano1747]

@@jaytalbot1146 fair enough. Good point. I hadn't really given that aspect any consideration... I would be using a solid carbide end mill not hss. Does that do the job in your view for cutting the scaled up surface? Happy to learn from others. I still want to find a way to machine it in one setup using the squareness of the x and y axes to guarantee the squareness of the product though...

[@Wulfmoon9]

Saw you at windy on Abom’s you tube, what were you casting if I may ask

[@TheTkiller9999]

it appears that you and Abom79 had the same issue with the rapid transverse... although it had a different root cause.

[@elmarqo_3448]

were the tops ground to the same height?

[@hjvisagie]

How square do you need, 1 micron is REALLY close.

[@truracer20]

Even if it's .0001" out of square it is good enough for any job that calls for the precision of a square. That .0001" over a test distance of 5.5" means it's out by .001" over a distance of 55". If more precision is needed than that then a 6" square probably isn't the best tool for the job.

[@siggyincr7447]

Nice job, though I gotta say I prefer a square with flanges on at least one side of the web for mounting clamps. Clamping anything to this will be tricky at best.

[@paulcopeland9035]

Buy one from Windy Hill and mill/grind it to your spec. That is the beauty of finding good, rough castings that can be made into precision tools.

[@siggyincr7447]

@@paulcopeland9035 The issue is that there isn't enough material in that rough casting to leave a flange. The casting needs to be made with that in mind.

[@paulcopeland9035]

@@siggyincr7447... I'll bet Clark could fix you up with a thicker flange casting. He seems to be flexible with his designs. A small operation like that is great to work with.

[@richardhead8264]

_How did you break the edges?_

[@JaakkoF]

Good edge break on a surface ground component is a piece of sand paper pulled along the edge. Makes a teeny tiny round in the corner.

[@RoscoRSR2]

Great content. Thanks! I was hoping that you grind the sides to equal length also...

[@mantrout212]

I didn’t know dead nuts was a measurement term

[@johnmanning4577]

One of the many things one can learn from Keith....

[@jstephenallington8431]

It is. (albeit a VERY old term!)

[@TheMth370]

CHRIS COLOME Dead nuts is a smaller measurement then "a bees dick" 😊😉

[@michael931]

My old boss would say dead nuts, gnat's ass and hill of beans...

[@itaylormadeit4u]

"Dead nuts", same as "Bang on".

[@aubreyaub]

Ron Brown here. You haven't seen my diamond dresser, have you...?

[@gilbertodiaz-castro626]

I didn't hear you mention the dimensions of the square, height width, and thickness??

[@paulwomack5866]

They don't matter - it's a square, not a scale or rule