Join the Kleptocracy

Since the earliest days of the republic, America’s international friendships have shaped domestic politics. And some of those friendships helped America strengthen its democratic principles. So what happens if America’s new friends are autocrats? John Bolton, former national security adviser for President Donald Trump, and Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island argue that if America no longer leads the democratic world and instead imports secrecy and kleptocracy from the autocratic world, American citizens will feel even more powerless, apathetic, disengaged, and cynical.
This is the fourth episode of Autocracy in America, a five-part series about authoritarian tactics already at work in the United States and where to look for them (www.theatlantic...) .
Autocracy in America is produced by The Atlantic and made possible with support from the SNF Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins University (www.snfagora.jh...) , an academic and public forum dedicated to strengthening global democracy through powerful civic engagement and informed, inclusive dialogue.
Music by Jerry Lacey (“The Lotus Tree”), J. F. Gloss (“Mysterious Figures”), Howard Harper-Barnes (“Mysterious Forest”), Medité (“Air Talking”), T. Morri (“Skip & Rewind”), Luella Gren (“Sleep Forever”), ELFL (“The Flux Beneath It All”), Yinon Muallem “(Oudstock”), and Rob Smierciak (“Mystery March”).
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[@1donjuego]

This is the BEST explanation of what I see going on in our country. I am a 60 yo who spent my entire life in and around government and public policy.

[@gulli72]

John Bolton is the kind of guy who wakes up drenched in sweat from a nightmare about a world at peace.

[@wcsxwcsx]

Maybe over lingering guilt.

[@nathanngumi8467]

Great episode! Plato wrote: "Democracy can be voted out of existence." Will Americans wake up to this reality before it is too late?

[@davidwilkie9551]

I think you might mean "nothing comes from nothing"? Reverse gear uses positive energy to retrace your position, but if we do nothing, nothing happens positively or negatively, which means corruption is not natural decay in any system requiring constant constructive political input. "A Rose by any other name will smell as Sweet".

[@Apostate1970]

@@nathanngumi8467 Plato didn't write that. He also didn't value democracy ... at least not how we today use it.

[@philtomey5910]

Anne Applebaum, Peter Pomerantsev, and The Atlantic are doing priceless work.

[@donmorris1540]

Anne Applebaum is a neocon who rationalized all the fascist Republicans who got us into this mess.

[@donmorris1540]

The Atlantic pumps tons US Capitalist-Authoritarian propaganda. Until they stop equating DEMOCRACY with CAPITALISM. By “Liberal Democracy” they mean Capitalist-religion w voting. Read E. Ostrom on Paneceas

[@seanmcmurphy4744]

I am a liberal. The US in the past has been far too militaristic. We are the most aggressive country in the world, since WW2 we have attacked around 24 countries and invaded 7. We have propped up dictators to insure profits for oil companies. The Republican party has been the main instigator of foreign intervention. This is the source of the isolationist feeling among Republicans; for 50 years they have been lied to about the need for military aggression, by their own political party. ------ But this does not mean we should make the opposite mistake, abruptly abandoning our allies, unilaterally abrogating treaties countries depend on, leaving Europe open to attack. This is a sure route to World War 3.

[@victorialeif9266]

I fear that the next world war will be the end of humanity. It’s difficult to know what “ liberal” means these days. It seems like the word describes “ neoliberalism “, which is the opposite of what liberalism was in the 1960’s. For myself, my adjective is “ progressive “. Even this term is watered down, given the political landscape as it has moved ever to the right in the past 40 years. What liberals and progressives are looking at are coalitions of anti democratic parties. The question becomes: what has created this? How has it gotten to this point? ( $$$$$)

[@thinktankdonahue]

So what you're saying is we should support regimes when my political party wants them to and not when the other political party does. Really principled stance you've taken brainless.

[@ottoinct]

When "Money Talks, Bullshit Walks" ceases to be the capitalist playbook rule #1, we'll have some significant change. This will never occur for as long as the wealthy oppress the disadvantaged. Sadly.

[@aaron.aaron.v.b.9448]

It's not really that easy I guess. To a considerable degree the US is fighting the wars that its allies do not have the capacity to fight anymore. So one could relate global reduction of conflict pretty directly with US military engagement world wide if necessitated by aiding its allies. Being a hegemon comes in this case with the responsibility to protect. Needless to say that this terribly backfired in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan.

[@Apostate1970]

@@aaron.aaron.v.b.9448 the US doesn't want to "protect". "The war is not meant to be won. It is meant to be perpetual.".

[@brlopwn]

Great episode. But what a horror to watch all of this happening and to have literally no ability to effect change. The episode mentions hopelessness, and I think that any educated realist will see that the situation is truly hopeless. There is nothing that will liberate humanity at this point. To the people who continue to live like the world is working as intended, business-as-usual, why? We're all slowly becoming locked in as slaves to monsters whom embody the worst of humanity. Do we hate ourselves that much? Do you want your children to be born into a life that REQUIRES their servitude and unquestioning obedience? The ability to be an individual, to have autonomy, to be curious and learn, are all going extinct. Look at how successful authoritarian forces have been throughout history, and recognize that democracy is actually a fragile and rare thing. And now recognize that as we move forward, these vile forces are going to have unblinking AIs running a uncompromising (unless you're wealthy, ofc) surveillance states being run and enforced by militarized police (until they, too, are eventually replaced by armed drones and other lethal robots). The kleptocratic "government" will squeeze every drop of value out of you until your dying breath. You will own nothing, know nothing, and you will like it. That, to me, is not a human life, but the life of cattle. No thanks.

[@dwightwilliams5892]

"Kleptopia" seems on-target.

[@MarkShapiro-m8r]

We in the US live in a plutocracy (rule by wealth) wherein wealth, or the moneyed interests steer policy by lobbying, campaign contributions, and public relations. But we still have rule of law. Russia is a kleptocracy, essentially a plutocracy without the protections of rule of law. What I didn't appreciate was how easy it would be to slip from our plutocracy to a full on kleptocracy. But it doesn't explain why we supported so many autocrats and invaded so many countries in the post-war era. Plutocracy may be bad that way, and kleptocracy horrifies me. Hard to imagine recovering from kleptocracy.

[@Apostate1970]

@@MarkShapiro-m8r Russia has laws. The fact you report otherwise just shows how effective our oligarchs' propaganda is.

[@natesmith8020]

Thank you for this series

[@ericlethbridge5070]

Just ask Latin Americans and others how they have experienced the US's commitment to democracy since WW2.....

[@thinktankdonahue]

Most LatAm countries have functional democracies without any apparent US intervention. The 1970s called they want their Americabad critique back.

[@Apostate1970]

@@thinktankdonahue they have democracies *despite* US intervention. That's his point.

[@thinktankdonahue]

@@Apostate1970 Convenient to be able to have it both ways. The US impedes and has total control over these countries when things are bad but they somehow have democracies inspite of this "all controlling" outside body. Maduro is certainly a great example of democracy despite the US best effort to impose authoritarian government right? So dumb.

[@edwardb7811]

How is it that a president can on his own authority abrogate a treaty?

[@Apostate1970]

"Functioning as a corporation ..." ... you might as well be describing the US.

[@garychurch9237]

Not quite.

[@Apostate1970]

@@garychurch9237 SoD Raytheon. WH CoS EXXON and Citibank. SoS runs a company selling political access. VP is Blackrock. SCOTUS owned by Chevron and friends. No change in this for at least the last four presidents, and the trend growing for 50 years. Yeah ... I'm right.

[@Apostate1970]

@garychurch9237 SoD Raytheon. WH CoS EXXON and Citibank. SoS runs a company selling political access. VP is Blackrock. SCOTUS owned by Chevron and friends. No change in this for at least the last four presidents, and the trend growing for 50 years. Yeah ... I'm right.

[@Apostate1970]

​@@garychurch9237OK, you're right. Instead we function as a violent, lying, insider club of superwealthy and their aides-de-camps and sycophants.

[@CarlosIowa]

Moneyland? Kleptopia? How about TRUMPISTAN. 😂

[@aaron.aaron.v.b.9448]

The argument on autocracies working together was, although it might contain a truth, not very well crafted. If the US excludes you from the system of international trade it dominates, there is just no other option but to cooperate with other outcasts. This does not say anything about the preferences with whom you'd like to cooperate and how.

[@d36williams]

that music tone just cuts for some reason, i suggest using tones with warmth, something about that sine wave is too loud for me starting around 9:20

[@kevinjenner9502]

One criminal discussing another criminal.

[@4BIG_DEMOCRACY]

Heed these warnings

[@jez1522]

ads are out of control on this😡

[@danwylie-sears1134]

Reminds me of what Vlad Vexler has been saying.

[@tanyawilliams8254]

Vote Blue America 🇺🇸

[@TennesseeJed]

I more than "feel" that I don't matter I know that I don't matter. I am krill for the whales sucked into the dark belly without even knowing I am in a belly.

[@afterthestorm221]

We the people must have trust in our president, not a rogue actor that looks like a president.

[@davidwilkie9551]

Freedom from free domain? Technically a Domain is the aspect-version of coherence-cohesion sync-duration wave-packaging, spin-spiral bubble-mode coordination/quantization cause-effect. If the mono-dualistic elemental e-Pi-i probabilistic true => resonances harmonic resonance correlation that can be put in terms of moralistic sympathy, empathy or pathological individual beings, this inside-outside holographic positioning presence aspect of performance politics includes all aspects of human behaviour. This series is a great service to the civil social networking community, thank you.

[@victorialeif9266]

This was really well done. Education is the key to keeping our democracy! Education in America has been eroded by the lack of a progressive challenge to the conservative agenda. Maybe we need to be a bit reductionist, and simply say: You can support policies that help people, or you can support the kleptocrats! It seems that anger and resentment have clouded rational thinking.

[@donmorris1540]

Anne Applebaum is a neo-con, look her up. Capitalism doesn’t equal democracy. Conservatives are simply against democracy, I cannot see how conservatism doesn’t devolve into fascism if successful.

[@JJ-fr2ki]

24:12 Disagree with the structuralist formula for Kleptocracy which confounds it with an narrow oligarchy. Kleptocracies are states where an analysis of the leadership shows they intend more on stealing financially from the State than advancing any other interest. To get a kleptocracy going (the people have to be very apathetic or competing parties eliminated)AND (an independent press shutdown). It is not the bridge from a liberal state to an authoritarian one, it can only come after significant authoritarian milestones met. 24:12

[@JJ-fr2ki]

4:23 Wait. British anti-slavery of the 1840s depended critically on a new commercial and thin-ethical alignment. India could produce enough cotton, so the U.S. South was a competitor to the East India Company which was at its peak and controlled the UK. And, the UK would tighten the screws in Indians, Chinese, and Africans that same decade, with new forms of labor theft. 4:23

[@elkinjohn]

intangling alliances? The Washington Doctrine of Unstable Alliances, sometimes called the caution against entangling alliances, was an early realist guide for US foreign policy and the nation's interaction with others. According to the policy, the United States should consider external alliances as temporary measures of convenience and freely abandon them when national interest dictates.

[@mariavellon2599]

🎉🎉

[@garychurch9237]

Trumpist.

[@seanmcmurphy4744]

I believe the US in the past has been too aggressive and militaristic, invading countries and propping up dictators to insure the profits of oil companies. Only 20 years ago we invaded and occupied Iraq, a country which had no ability to harm us at all, on the basis of a CIA conspiracy theory. This explains the isolationist feeling of MAGA supporters; they have been lied to by their own party about foreign threats. But that doesn't mean we should make the opposite mistake, abandoning our allies, leaving Europe open to invasion. This would be a sure route to a world war.

[@josejaquez4100]

Sure the US is not an autocratic state. But it's always been an oligarchy and a haven for oligarchs. And criticism from the US is kinda laughable considering this US has done the same but exponentially worse.

[@elkinjohn]

Trump thinks of himself as a deal maker... he starts with low ball offers... sometimes in the form of threats... sometimes this has worked for him in the past...

[@garychurch9237]

DO NOT give the orange monster any credit please. He has to go.

[@MichaelHarrington17]

@@garychurch9237 If you don't understand the Art of the Deal, you don't understand a thing about Donald Trump. He's always looking for an advantage to create a "win." He bluffs, he calls bluffs. He uses uncertainty to his advantage. That just explains his negotiating behavior, it doesn't predict the oppositions' reactions.

[@71suns]

Trump is a 78 year old full-spectrum narcissist-sociopath TWO-BIT SHYSTER CON-ARTIST. Period. He's not an 'action figure' for pity sake.

[@Apostate1970]

"Kleptocracy is when the government is controlled by a small group of people .". You're perfectly describing the US ... and yet you expect us to somehow not recognize that.

[@onedroprule]

Not quite. kleptocracy is government by those who seek chiefly status and personal gain at the expense of the governed

[@Apostate1970]

@@onedroprule you don't have to define it for me m0r0n. I was quoting the video, using their definition. But yours fits too. Congrats with all your likes f001.

[@onedroprule]

@@Apostate1970 you misquoted the video so I thought I'd help you out, slugger 🤣

[@Apostate1970]

When your SoD is literally a Raytheon exec, and your SoS literally runs a company selling political access? And when your White House chief of staff is the CEO of EXXON or Citibank. JFC, what is it going to take for people to wake TF up? And yet The Atlantic wants is to think that Russia or China are the problem. They want us to think that Iran, Syria, Yemen, and Gaza is the problem not Saudi Arabia and Israel and us. We trade in internationally banned weapons and have occupied half the globe yet they're the problem. Maduro et al = Mossadegh 2.0. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[@Apostate1970]

​@@onedroprule except I didn't misquote it you sycophantic f___. But, as I said, your definition works perfectly too. We fit that bill perfectly, and this program appears to think we're not supposed to notice that. Sadly, Americans are so $+up!d that it may be right.

[@johanncat-s007]

Why is this informative and interesting current history accompanied by absolutely ceaseless, inane (major-key, drugged clowns in toy-land) xylophone noodling? ^&$!*! music contrary to the tone of the issues and distracting.