Atheist Says, "Your Bible Says A Woman Must Marry Her Rapist?!"

[@tracytilford6735]

As someone who considers themselves as an atheist, I'm actually really glad to have this cleared up. I made this argument to a religious person during my angry phase and never had it explained properly to me. I may not believe myself but I still don't want to false notions about what Christians believe.

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

So, uh, what do you plan on telling God on Judgement Day? About your unbelief I mean. I hope you have a doozy of an explanation because God is going to take a lot of convincing about why you rejected his son! You’ll find out God takes that pretty seriously. And don’t say you are agnostic. That’s fence sitting and be sure God is big enough to knock you off the fence. You won’t like your landing!

[@tracytilford6735]

@@user-vm5ud4xw6n Whoa whoa whoa, slow your role. I don't actually believe in a creater but I do believe in Christian values. I believe in the Bible more like Aesop's fables, not true stories but meant to teach you about morality and how to live properly. If I'm wrong and God does exist then I'll have to deal with the consequences, but there's no reason for you to be so hostile to me. I value your right to believe in God and assuming you are Christian, the main point we seem to disagree is the actual creator part.

[@draculinalover]

God bless you sweetheart. I appreciate you.

[@andrewrogers3067]

@@tracytilford6735Respect

[@KingLanternChimera1611]

​@tracytilford67351 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect

[@theidentitychristispodcast]

Great job Allen! The Bible is actually teaching accountability for men and women in sexual conduct although that is a foreign concept to us here in 21st century western civilization.

[@aleksandrasialtsis4382]

This is true. A lot of young people nowadays are very promiscuous and can't control themselves. They can't wait for marriage anymore and I really blame mainstream entertainment which being controlled by Satan. This is a big reason why it is good for young people to know Jesus.

[@STak-ju7gx]

Better yet. The old testament is a picture of the full penalty of the Law. And we have to be humble to realize we can't really meet the standard, and we need Jesus.

[@vinnievu1]

Unfortunately, western civilization heavily punishes the man for doing so, but if the woman is found out to be the initiator...

[@aleksandrasialtsis4382]

@@STak-ju7gx Amen to that! All glory be to Christ for saving us from our sin!

[@marianlucas2947]

Pharaohs liked Anicent Egyptians believe in Gods and Goddesses. Atheist hold no such religious beliefs.

[@yo-d7244]

This shows how much GOD hates sexual immorality not just Because HE is HOLY that is absolutely true but also because Sexual immorality destroys human relationship and has eternal consequences. Thank You so much Allen. This video is so helpful. God bless you.

[@jaflenbond7854]

ENEMIES and HATERS of the TRUE and SOVEREIGN GOD Atheists and Evolutionists who don't believe in the existence of God and Gods HATE the CREATOR, and they're showing it, filling the world with their LIE and arrogant claim that the Creator is unworthy and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign GOD in their hatred and opposition of what were written in Matthew 22: 37 and John 17: 3 ENEMIES and HATERS of JESUS CHRIST Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions in the world HATE JESUS CHRIST, and they're showing it, mocking and degrading Jesus Christ's Biblical authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" clearly written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26 as worthless and useless and filling the world instead with the LIES and Unbiblical teachings and doctrines of the enemies of Jesus Christ about "Armageddon", "Trinity", "heaven and hellfire", "rapture", and "reincarnation" WORSHIPPERS of the CREATOR and FOLLOWERS of JESUS CHRIST WILL LIVE and EXIST on EARTH FOREVER Jesus Christ KNOWS that all persons who willingly submit to his authority and obey his teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26 are his lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive Followers on earth who will definitely be favored, honored, and rewarded by the loving, kind, and merciful Creator with ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death on a safe, secure, and peaceful earth without liars, perverts, cowards, slanderers, traitors, and murderers as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4, 8. The Creator KNOWS that all human beings will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6 but he knows too that he will not let his loving, kind, and respectful worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Job, Moses, Ruth, Naomi, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's followers, and many others to remain as worthless and useless dusts on earth forever, instead, in the right and proper time and as written in John 11: 25, 26, he will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.

[@sgt_slobber.7628]

TRUE!!!!! Yet it’s very natural for us as Human beings!!!!!:/ If God didn’t want us to ‘Fornicate’ than why do we got strong desires for it!!!!!:/:/ Just something to ponder on!!!!;);)🙏🙏🙏

[@davidpowers9178]

That's why he said to get married.

[@yo-d7244]

Brother I always asked myself the same question. But I think it is us who abused this desire just like eating is not bad but some poeple abuse eating and their desire to eat gets worse and worse. I hope you'll get what I mean. and other thing is yes desire to fornicate is so stronger but Joy and Pleasure in GOD is way stronger and the only thing that can bring balance and control over all the good god given desires.@@sgt_slobber.7628

[@monster762]

How is the rape victim guilty of sexual immorality?

[@Random-fz2rg]

I remember reading this verse and was like "Oh! Thats not..." and like "God?...😰" but now i understand how it was mistranslated instead. Thank you! And God literally compares the victim of rape to a victim of murder, making rape out to be EQUALLY as bad as murder!

[@roxxanefox4771]

Indeed ...it is a violation act of sexual intercourse against another human being's will

[@MichaelAChristian1]

The King James Bible is Perfect. The "newer versions" PURPOSEFULLY change this verse and many others but Allen keeps teaching error to please audience.

[@ngantran9884]

@@MichaelAChristian1there are no perfect translations. I like reading KJV best but it’s impossible for the bible to be exactly the same after being translated into a different language

[@MichaelAChristian1]

@@ngantran9884 That's just a LIE you were deceived into parroting. You haven't thought about it nor searched the scriptures because they told you scriptures are "full of error". We see in Scriptures that God Himself interprets multiple times in different languages. Only a deceived person would say he made a mistake then turn around and say God couldn't translate it. That's exactly what they do with Matthew 1 for instance. Further in Acts we see they heard it IN THEIR OWN TONGUE. Specifically to show you it can be translated EASILY by God. God preserves his words. But you have been deceived that you now think NONE OF SCRIPTURES ARE PERFECT. The NO PURE SCRIPTURE DOCTRINE is from hell. Time to wake up. God even FORETOLD He would speak to you in ANOTHER TONGUE. UNDERSTAND?

[@雀-t6c]

You are in no position to make claims about the accuracy of a translation unless you can read Hebrew.

[@jamesmagwenzi6058]

I tried explaining this to an athiest years ago but she kept on insisting that it is about marrying your rapist. At that point I knew she just wanted to win an arguement, she just wanted to be right which is another athiest trope.

[@NewBornNickumz]

That’s how it always is. They want to have the last say also. Esp online.

[@summerrose8110]

​​@@NewBornNickumz Tell me about it and atheists accuse us of being "holier-than-thou" condescending jerks. I've dealt with some of them on here, they annoy me.

[@Theo_Skeptomai]

Try explaining this passage to me. I'll listen.

[@Theo_Skeptomai]

​@@summerrose8110This would be ALL atheists, correct?

[@1saamor897]

no just you@@Theo_Skeptomai

[@journeyjulie3973]

Thank you for this. I was raped many years ago by a trusted friend, and God did not want me to marry him AT ALL. It was only by God’s power and the command of the Holy Spirit that I cut him off, left that area, and moved on. Jesus saved me and gave me healing and a wonderful husband many years later. In Christ you are a new creation. We are God’s children and he does NOT want anyone to live in abuse and horror.

[@lily6943]

You moved on? You didn't report him?

[@debbierashton9819]

God bless you!

[@janopetrajannat713]

I am so happy for you

[@bariettaperez]

Thank you for speaking on this delicate subject with such grace, love and compassion!

[@williecruz7006]

the Bible does not endorse or justify these acts. Instead, it portrays the consequences of such actions and the brokenness of humanity.

[@mugabedavid4845]

That's correct

[@Yahshuaismyeverything]

Amen🙏🏾

[@tryphenarose384]

The bible allows polygamy. There were laws given for men to be able to take multiple wives. There are even verses where God refers to himself as having two wives, that being Judah and Israel. That's disgusting. Most Christians are against polygamy, yet the bible never states this as a sin. And if a woman in that environment wanted to leave, she'd lose everything in the process and likely be ostracized from her community. I'm glad to live in modern day America, really.

[@thematrix3663]

​@@tryphenarose384the bible clearly shows the consequences of polygamous unions. There are almost no happy harmonious unions. The wives were all unhappy as the men were all unable to satsfy them both. The bible simply outlines it showing what occurred but allowing you to draw your own conclusions.

[@mattdillon4398]

@@tryphenarose384 the whole reason that you are "glad to live in modern day America" is BECAUSE of the bible! Why don't you know this? Our laws on everything moral (including our laws against polygamy) are derived directly from scripture because it was biblical theists that founded this nation. This was common knowledge up until like 2 minutes ago. Read a book.

[@wealthprosper6251]

Thanks for explaining this clearly. Had a friend who went through a horrid sexual assault years back from an excrement of a man who’s part of a church. The “Christian” family she was staying with misinterpreted v28-29 and told her she had to marry the guy. Needless to say she hasn’t gone to church since

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

I wouldn’t either. What a crazy family.

[@renegade637]

I've seen several comments on various videos with similar pretenses where a woman tried to bring up that her husband was mistreating her and they, either, told the couple to go to counseling because they expected a "stern talk" would fix the husband or that the woman needed to be put in her place. Only one comment mentioned that it was years after her incident that the church she used to go to finally started acknowledging domestic abuse as an issue that required more than just marital counseling. This is why many people have left the faith or they acknowledge that many of these big denominations have gone into Apostacy and it's only the smaller denominations that broke away from the bigger denominations or are just a group of people who opted to restart the denomination based on what it was originally meant to be about and are growing from there.

[@mke_gal]

Holy cow that is awful, I wonder how many marriages have been arranged due to the very misinterpretation of the two verses. My heart goes out to the victims :(

[@thembinkosindabula6063]

I hope you can share this video with your friend so that she knows the true meaning of the verse. God forbid she lives on thinking Christianity condones rape.

[@wealthprosper6251]

@@thembinkosindabula6063 hopefully I can. It’s off and on with her

[@cami4CYeshua787]

The passage about two virgins having sex is explaining how to rectify a sin. Premarital sex is a sin, but it can be rectified by marriage. This is exactly what happened for my husband and I, as teenagers we sinned (both as virgins assuming you discount my childhood rape), and stayed together with the intention to marry and upon graduating we did. We've been together for 7yrs, married for nearly 4, and when we read this passage it had more significance to us than most obviously. Mistakes made in youthful lust can be forgiven.

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

Mistakes in lust can be forgiven anyone provided they are sincere and not just paying lip service!

[@Pangie12]

Technically any sin can be forgiven by God. But I think what you’re saying makes sense.

[@YahwehisGodandYeshuaisKingiamr]

​@@Pangie12Not all sins are forgiven by God (Matthew 12, Mark 3, Revelation 13 and 14)

[@jennifer_ross_]

I can’t express enough how grateful I am for you Allen. I’ve been questioning God and the bible and my heart has been very heavy for questioning my faith and you bring so much clarity to me😭😭😭 thank you!!!!

[@abigailadditon]

I'm so glad you're seeking/questioning God! I was raised in church, and question God when I was 17-20 overjoyed to say I'm saved now! (I'm 21) I hope you are a sister is Christ very soon! It's good to ask questions, because your faith is more firm in the end. I can't wait to meet you in heaven! Definitely pray, and read God's word! Matthew 7 is an amazing passage!!! The gospels are a great place to start! As is the book of Romans, because it talks about the foundations of the Christian faith, how to be saved, ect. Billy Crone is another amazing biblical teacher, and he has a lot of resources that I have been listening to lately, they have been very helpful for me as a new Christian. And I think they would definitely be very helpful for you as you are questioning God and the BIble. Because his sermons have helped me so much, and answered a lot of my questions, and still are. I just wanted to give you another resource! I want you to firm in your faith! I wish you the absolute best. I know we don't know each other, but if you do have a question or anything, I will check my email for comment replies. I'm a fairly new Christian, and not super equipped yet but I can definitely pray for you, answer questions I'm able too, and direct you to teachers who know much more than me! Much love

[@manuelshaul9244]

The bible on point. People not on point. BECASUE most people are hiding most people who hide is the one who would

[@Just_me_1974]

I’ve been struggling with this verse for a few months. What a relief. Thank you for clearing it up. 🙏

[@ngethekinyanjui2124]

It's better to be lost in the Word of God; He always comes through for His beloved. Hallelujah in Jesus Mighty name Amen.

[@thedude0000]

You think it's truly cleared up? Want to know exactly why he HAD TO CHANGE bible versions?? Below is the verse from the NIV, which is the bible he used for all the other verses: _28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives_ His preferred version of the bible calls it rape in that verse.

[@Tinesthia]

@Lee-km7qq Actually when you read multiple translations in context it is clear that 26-27 involve a “betrothed virgin” and 28-29 involve an “unbetrothed virgin.” In the first case the woman’s consent only matters because she is promised to another. In the second case the woman’s consent doesn’t matter, in any case, she is no longer suitable to promise to another, the only way the father gets his bride price is if the offender pays it and takes her as wife. She isn’t much more than property in scripture. Exodus 21 declares that Israelites can sell their own daughters as permanent property. Deut 22 : 27-28 still apply in the case of rape.

[@DeconvertedMan]

let it go, faith is meh, facts are better :D

[@Just_me_1974]

@@DeconvertedMan Feel free to live your life as you wish. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@brettgonzalez8447]

Sometimes you can’t explain things like this in just a minute or two and that’s what I like about Allen. he breaks it down

[@lilchristuten7568]

I haven't watched the video yet but I can easily explain it quite quickly. The passage isn't talking about forced sex, it talking about a man taking a woman and acting like she is his wife by having consensual sex with her. The fact that it uses the wording "they are discoverd" shows that she is a willing participant.

[@Tinesthia]

Yeah he breaks it down real good. This verse isn’t really about rape, let’s use all these verses about commanding Israel to murder people for infidelity as context. Excellent moral defense.

[@brettgonzalez8447]

@@lilchristuten7568 thanks!

[@multipl3]

You shouldnt have to. Just say its Jewish history and thats the end of it

[@garrgravarr]

​@@lilchristuten7568This is bullshit tapdancing to attempt to explain an obviously horrific practice from the bronze age

[@Amateur-builder]

Thank you for all your content over the years! I have been blessed by your teachings and explanations of complex biblical issues. Merry Christmas!

[@davidpieper7000]

I had this same verse tossed in my face the other day and I just asked them how a dead man is to pay for the woman. He can’t. Then when I explained that it was their version of a shotgun wedding they slinked away in shame. I wish instead it opened their heart to the gospel but you never know how the Lord will work.

[@Spriktor]

Time to pray for them and invite them to an alpha course

[@sabin97]

@@Spriktor do you seriously believe in the "power of prayer"? if so i have an experiment you can do to demonstrate it's 100% false.

[@tylerknight2993]

I really like this channel. As someone who is reading through the Bible more seriously, going to Church more and wants to better obey God, having someone who can explain clearly what the scripture means really helps. There are definitely people to watch out for, but you seem like someone I don’t have to watch out for as much.

[@bunny_0288]

If you're looking for another resource, I highly recommend Got Answers. I love to share the Gospel with atheists and other non believers and I find it's a great way to search up specific questions and they always give very detailed and thorough answers with cited verses.

[@Godrules]

The term "taw-fas" actually means to "manipulate", not RΑΡΕ. The same term is used to refer to "manipulating" or "handling" a musical instrument. It is likely similar to a guy promising the world to the woman (oh, I will marry you, blah blah) and getting the woman to SLΕΕΡ with him and then not taking any responsibility for what he had promised. This is probably why it says he has to marry her and cannot divorce her.

[@greg12345]

The key is in the phrase "and they are found out" (Deuteronomy 22:28), she was not raped but were having relations outside of marriage.

[@healingthroughchrist1988]

I can see how some people might misunderstand what that verse saying. Especially since either the NIV or NLT actually says rape in that verse. Talk about a serious mistranslation.

[@greg12345]

@@healingthroughchrist1988 yep. Those translations are bad...

[@Pettam713]

kjb is the best version, I'll quote it too: "If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days..."

[@sabin97]

@@Pettam713 "lay hold on her" as in grabs her.....that's the r word.

[@sabin97]

and yet it uses the r word and the v word. both of which imply non-consent. and found it as in "discovered" as in someone notices. that doesnt imply she was at fault.

[@BADDMIXX]

Amen Brother Allen! It Is Written! KJV - Proverbs 1 : 7 “The Fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.”

[@bradIeyyy]

that would include keeping all 10 commandments including the 4th command the sabbath which he ignores... if you ignore one you ignore all..

[@QuietGirl2006]

Thank you for this. Truly this is for the spiritual people with the Holy Spirit as their guidance. In order to understand God’s Word, you have to be led by the Spirit not flesh.

[@danielfortonforton223]

Well said, thank you, now if more people understood that

[@davidfortuin4146]

Despite all the good news in the Word of God they nitpick at anything to vilify God.😢

[@princessjasmine9902]

No worries my brother simply don’t waste time talking to them. If they so interested in nitpicking let them do it. They could have simply searched it up on KZbin. Jorden Paterson is even doing a Bible study break on his KZbin channel they can go there💯

[@Yahshuaismyeverything]

I just ignore them and pray for them

[@sharonparker7148]

Thanks Allen appreciate your hard work.

[@muppetonmeds]

I think deep down they hate God without even knowing it and they just read the Bible to find fault with God. When you have a negative mind all you can see is evil.

[@hellonewman5855]

When the Almighty is supposed to be perfect and he isn't, can't say that's picking at nits; rather, it's pointing out that the Almighty is less than perfect.

[@EmpressNatiLocs]

You’re a phenomenal teacher. Thanks for this lesson. So eye opening!❤

[@eliseoandrade8126]

Thanks, brother Allen. Very clever to clarify these verses. I didn't even know some atheist would use them just to accuse us. They cannot interpret the Bible with a modern mindset without knowing the context. Merry Christmas.

[@abellewis3062]

Really? They do it everyday.

[@DavidDrew-n6z]

They aren’t accusing us they are accusing God.

[@lorddio4280]

Not really.

[@abellewis3062]

@@lorddio4280 What do you mean "not really?"

[@lorddio4280]

@@abellewis3062 You can't acuse someone you don't believe in per se. Maybe if you look at god as a fictional character but if you believe the book to be written by humans then those are the ones you'd be accusing.

[@dantheman909]

We need to read every verse in context and also read a few translations to get to the root meaning.

[@horridhenry9920]

This is Allen’s full time job. Most Christians don’t have the time, or capacity to read several translations. Even then, how do you know you’ve got the root meaning? There are thousands of denominations, all thinking they have the root meaning.

[@arielmarbury467]

Allen is so good at breaking these passages down and teaching.

[@JackieSkellington]

There are some dark passages that are difficult, our Church has an amazing Pastor who guides us well. Thank you for the breakdown of the verses. Peace be with you.

[@sabin97]

when you say "guides" do you mean rationalizes the worst parts to make them seem like they say something they dont actually say?

[@JackieSkellington]

@@sabin97 no, doesn't sugar coat anything - for example we were in the passage where God kills someone for touching the Ark of the Covenant - talk about difficult! God killed someone?! Yep. That might make some folks leave the church! Our Pastor delivers the word in a way that makes sense and gives insight. He had given very explicit instructions on how to transport the Ark (in the famous movie, they are doing it right!) and to NOT TOUCH IT! They failed. God is merciful, he wants us to obey his commands, and not incur his wrath.

[@sabin97]

@@JackieSkellington actually he does. the tries to lessen the r word. if you read those verses in context you will notice that's exactly what they are describing. someone doing the r word and the victim being FORCED to marry the perp. and he tries to paint it as her being some sort of willing participant.

[@JackieSkellington]

@@sabin97 I wasn't talking about that passage - and the OP here did a good job breaking that down

[@gypsycowgirlok]

This was God's provision for women who were mistreated... It was Gods way of making sure they were taken care of... NOT to cause her pain but to cause her to not be considered unworthy.

[@katarzynakolodynska9387]

THIS. In Biblical times, men would only marry virgins, and a grape victim would be unable to find a husband and would be forced to fend for herself. This verse forced the graper to face the consecquences of his actions by taking responsibility and providing for his victim.

[@linuxramblingproductions8554]

@@katarzynakolodynska9387as opposed to the more reasonable option and not having such a backwards culture and keeping a freaking rapist away from the victim

[@sabin97]

@@katarzynakolodynska9387 it forced the victim to relive her trauma EVERY SINGLE DAY for the rest of her life.....

[@voxlknight2155]

In my translation, which isn't in English mind you, it says, instead of "violated her", it says "shamed her". Which I think brings out the meaning better.

[@LivingWaterEternal]

This is like when I ordered the How To Beat A Traffic Ticket book....Invaluable information to utilize in a discussion. Great video. Thanks.

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

I hope you threw that away and just decided to obey the law!

[@TheRealAlee123]

This is so timely it’s crazy, I just got into an argument with my friend last week about this.

[@catherinemontgomery90]

She didn't scream, so she must have been complicit. These people are psychotic.

[@GabrielMartinez-sd8pc]

Allen, thank you for being a solid teacher on this. I now understand and feel equipped to lay out the argument more contextually. Thanks!

[@juniorlifter369]

YOU ARE ON IT! You’re tackling issues I haven’t heard any pastors discuss! Not only this subject, but the subject if the Bible condones slavery!

[@rebeccah3715]

This is so helpful, thank you so much for covering this.

[@mozhem_povtorit]

Exactly! These are the verses that I have myself studied today. And I knew the answer even before I watched the video. All rape outside of marriage is a capital offense in the law of Moses. Why would a woman be forced to marry someone who should be dead?

[@sheilalaing8457]

Thanks for this video .I came across this question last night and lo next morning I have the answer

[@tabs91]

This might be the best video I've found on this passage. Thank you!

[@yeshua542]

Allen parr, thank you for what you do for us, I am now a ordained minister. It's good to be a Rev now an GOD lead me to this, you help me out so much.. Thank you Rev josh

[@amyhenningsgard8618]

What college and seminary did you attend?

[@PatrickInCayman]

Thanks Allen for a great explanation of this passage. Cheers!

[@Ezra821]

Great video, I love how you address different topics in the Bible. You are truly equipping us for the harvest thank you so much brother Allen!

[@Shalnn]

These sorts of laws punishing sexual promiscuity with death were apparently very common in the ancient near east, nothing specific to ancient Israel or the bible. The Assyrian law code had those, resembling some of these verses almost word for word.

[@sabin97]

because it's all the same bs. nothing "divine" about it.

[@rjds1800]

Context and understanding is key.

[@KathleenFlournoy-hu3pk]

It never said she had to li I've with him. He just is financially responsible for her for her lifetime since she would not be able to marry anyone else.

[@lorddio4280]

Do you work in the field of the law? Because that is one of the things you'd consider if you where.

[@sabin97]

no. it says he has to marry her. that implies cohabitation. and it never says they cohabitation is not necessary.

[@johnjr578]

I def will go into a time when I will literally study the most common objections people try to throw at the Bible and understand the objections, studying the word frfr

[@LavernLee-zz5ln]

Tnx Allen for clarifying Bible words from Hebrew & Greek sources. I use the NIV & looking at other translations or a good Bible commentary is helpful.

[@KingLanternChimera1611]

"foot loose and fancy free" 😂 I need a translation, bother Allen! Appreciate you.

[@cjohnson2159]

I really enjoy when you take an out of context Scripture and break it down for us! Thanks, Allen 🙏🏾

[@williamtotherow3367]

Have you actually read the Bible?

[@RedPanda1945o]

Thank you brother that was a real eye opener. You are a good teacher, i now understand what it means. I was worried it was endorsing and condoning the Gross act. Phew what a relief. God bless you sir🙏♥️

[@CRoadwarrior]

God bless you, brother Parr, for doing videos like this. I have been addressing atheist arguments for a number of years, and I find that they can be very hypocritical when it comes to the Bible. They claim they are objective, rational, and love to think "critically," but I've found that all of that goes "out the window" when they get to the Bible. I would love for you to address some of the specific claims of the KZbin channel called "MythVision Podcast." That guy is always making videos against Christianity, and uses hand-picked, anti-Christian "scholars" that sound like they know what they're talking about, but who either distort facts or make things up out of whole cloth. I have already begun to address some of the nonsense coming out of that channel, but it would be great to see you address these things was well.

[@blackananaas]

Very interesting Hope he gets to read your comment!

[@CRoadwarrior]

@@blackananaas Yes, I'm sure he might. One of the things I like about brother Parr is that despite all the subs he has, he does take time to read and reply at times to comments. He also answers email.

[@ramonpooser2434]

God bless you for an amazing study. The Lord expects us to search all scripture like this and you really brought that home.

[@tiffanydennis4227]

Here’s the correct Kjv Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Deuteronomy 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. Shalom

[@toughbiblepassages9082]

There are many times that the church is unfairly avoiding the fair criticisms of skeptics.. but this is one verse where the skeptics have been extremely unfair and dishonest in how they handle the text.

[@bytesizedbible]

This is probably one of your best videos ever. Very well done. 👏

[@thebeatagp]

Wow! That was extremely encouraging. That means more than you know.

[@bytesizedbible]

​@thebeatagp I am glad it has encouraged you! Your presentation and thorough study and cross references were brilliant. Hopefully, it will encourage others to do the same. We have different theological stances on some issues, but I always appreciate that you strive for intellectual honesty. I would think it would be very interesting for you to engage with others of a different view theologically on occasion, like Dr Flowers on Calvanism or Jew and Greek on tongues, etc. I would suggest a discussion rather than a debate. We should mirror good discussions to others as so many just want to argue. And you have a great heart of being gracious like Dr Flowers, etc. Just a thought! Keep up the good work! Blessing in Christ in all areas of your life for now and in the next year!

[@bmiller77]

Merry Christmas Alan and all viewers. Jesus is the Reason for the Season. God Bless 🙏✝️🩷🫶

[@Ferg778]

Should we celebrate Christmas?

[@donalda5707]

12:18pm 12/19/2023. Merry Christmas to you as well!😊

[@Yahshuaismyeverything]

​@Ferg778 I stopped celebrating Christmas because it's tended to be of Paganism and Idolatry. I would pray to Yahweh amd ask him for wisdom and understanding on this❤but out of honesty I wouldn't celebrate it anymore if you want to please God.

[@donalda5707]

There are those that do not like to celebrate Christmas because of all the commercials and store gimmicks. They don't even say Christmas anymore, because it may show they stand with Christ. Now they say Happy Holidays. Anyway I still say Merry Christmas. Look at the pretty lights around the city and neighborhood. Thank God for the real reason for Christmas. Our Lord Jesus Christ. May we always remember. Merry Christmas.

[@seuntimilehin3381]

Atheists will never have understanding

[@emelynklieman5540]

They are always looking what's wrong in the Bible and makes our loving God as bad God

[@blairmiller9489]

They dont wsnt understanding they just hate God. ​@emelynklieman5540

[@camillewilliams3185]

They can if they turn to God

[@princessjasmine9902]

@@emelynklieman5540it got to the point I don’t want to waste time talking to them. I simply tell them. “Since you read the Bible congratulations do you want a cookie?” And if they ask me why I’m not going to explain the verse I just look at them and tell them this, “Since you an atheist why should I explain something you don’t believe in? On top of that if you so interested in knowing what the verse means go to KZbin and search it up from Bible scholars and let them explain it to you. Because you talking to me about a verse just shows that you want to start an argument💯”

[@ShiniGuraiJoker]

How do you turn to a God with multiple translations of the same writing that NO one agrees upon?

[@TheParadiseParadox]

Thank you very much for your thorough explanation, of the verse and of your process. You have lifted the veil of ignorance

[@greyjedi4794]

In the ancient world, women were seen as property. It was a "you break it, you buy it" type situation

[@entity5678]

Good explanation Mr. Allen Parr..I read the page today where you explained the Deuteronomy and why it is the way it is, in your book "The Bible Story" and the same is repeated in today's video..

[@joyfulchristina]

I’m glad you pointed out the poor translation of this passage of NIV.

[@andrewmallard1974]

The problem is people are isolating certain verses to prove their point, but aren’t getting the bigger picture or asking others about the verse

[@dhenderson1810]

If atheists read "The Bible For Dummies" they would twist that as well.

[@Tinesthia]

Even Allen did this. He left out the greater context. A woman who was not a virgin was considered spoiled, and not fit to be married off as it wouldn’t be a pure marriage. This forcing of an unbetrothed woman to marry the one that slept with her, whether he forced himself on her or not, is because it is the only way to ensure the father gets the bride price, and the marriage is considered more pure if she has had only one partner even if they were together out of wedlock. In context, it does include a raped women. She must marry her rapist.

[@dhenderson1810]

@@Tinesthia But it may make a man think that if he rapes a woman who is not interested in him, then he can force her to marry him against her will. Where is the woman's "free will" in this? I thought God cared about free will.

[@hayfieldhermit9657]

​@@Tinesthia Watch the video again. Try to absorb the info more fully this time.

[@TT-ee1vv]

​@@Tinesthia Watch the video and carefully listen

[@ninjaartist1235]

Thank you for making these clear! It is super helpful!

[@Vic2point0]

Well done. But one could also defend it even going with the NIV translation (and not tying it with Exodus). An important point is that it's not saying that *she* must marry *him* or that she can never divorce him. It puts all of the requirements on her attacker. It's also not saying they have to so much as live together, much less be involved romantically, sexually, etc. So it's still not putting any sort of requirement on the woman, either way.

[@jennajoseph893]

I'm glad you mentioned this. 💓💓💓💓💓

[@sabin97]

"it's not saying that she must marry him or that she can never divorce him." are you really trying to argue semantics? if you married your wife. did your wife marry you? of course. saying a has to marry b, means EXACTLY THE SAME as saying b has to marry a. it means a and b have to get married. the mental gymnastics are something else.....

[@Vic2point0]

@@sabin97 No, saying "He must marry her" is not the same as "She must marry him" for the simple fact that consent would be required before he *can* marry her. Even in biblical times, the bible is full of commands to women (rather than instructions for men as to how they should force the desired behavior), which tells us that they did have some degree of agency, and there's no reason to think she would ever be forced to marry someone she didn't want to.

[@Jay_N_D_Truck]

Thank you for breaking down these scriptures. I never knew the context of what they meant

[@mariaespinoza8303]

Bad leaders are evil. This happened to my grandma, she was raped when she was 12 and they married her to her rapist, but even in my young mind, I never blamed God, I knew it was evil people who had no compassion for a young girl and made me despise my culture, one of the reasons I came to live in the USA, didn’t want my kids to grow up in a place that would allow and enforce that life. My poor grandma😢

[@oldschool5]

My sister n law has the same story.. Its not god.. Its the men who speak on behalf of god who is partially the blame for this foolishness. Remember that man write books. Not gods

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

You’re poor grandma indeed. She must have felt like she was in her own personal hell. How awful!

[@dewoynesmith]

Brother Allen, I'm getting your program for my wife as a christmas gift. Thank you.

[@tariotobo1]

With the scriptures you used to bring context you brought up more questions than answers!

[@tryphenarose384]

I agree.

[@markyoder9819]

What was one of the questions that it brought up for you?

[@tariotobo1]

@@markyoder9819 it brought up questions about the other scriptures that he used.

[@markyoder9819]

He was using those to contrast with this one somewhat the way courts do today to establish precident @@tariotobo1

[@Toadzx]

@@tariotobo1 He didn’t ask what the other questions were about, he asked for an example.

[@richardadcock5450]

I'm glad of your insight and teaching and using discernment I understand what you are saying. I was told as a young man that the Bible is not to be interpreted.

[@jcwt_pdx]

Exactly why I prefer the King James Version 🙏🏻💜

[@AdrienneJung.M]

Thank you brother Parr, for clarifying this passage for me

[@UnholyChurchboy]

It's kinda funny that all you had to do to refute those claims was literally read a couple of verses before the one those people cherrypicked.

[@davidjarvie9546]

Excellent point well made. Thanks allan....these questions need to be addressed by revealing the truth in the bible, the word is inspired by God...🇬🇧🙏🙏🙏

[@Gamer1990100]

Nice to see someone tackle the tough questions; keep up the great work :)

[@michaeltamajong2988]

Thanks for this study.

[@Setsunna]

The only way to understand or argue the Bible is to read it with God given discernment. Ask any denier if they read the entire Bible after asking for discernment. Case closed. Pray for them.

[@tryphenarose384]

I have done this. Been a Christian for several years after formerly being an atheist. The things that the bible says pertaining to women, is definitely rocking my faith as of recently. I have asked for discernment, and have gone to God humbly, yet the fact that the bible doesn't allow a woman to divorce, or that a man could marry multiple women without it being considered adultery and the other women he married then have no choice but to live in that environment. If a woman wanted to leave, she'd lose everything - her home, belongings, her children, all because in a patriarchal society, everything belongs to the man. That's terrible and I'm so glad I'm not an ancient Israelite.

[@horridhenry9920]

Well, given that “deniers” don’t think Gid exists, asking for discernment is futile. I’ll take evidence. Unlike most Christian’s I’ve read the entire bible, and considered the different translations.

[@Setsunna]

@@horridhenry9920 you read the entire Bible and still want evidence? That's all the information I need to know.

[@blackananaas]

@@tryphenarose384did you miss the New Testament on purpose or didn’t read it yet? Because the answer is there…

[@IndyB23]

​@@tryphenarose384Hey! Current atheist here, really interested by your comment. How do you go about reconciling the belief that God is good with the things that God says and does in the Bible?

[@aftergodsownheart9052]

Another well broken down explanation for us❤ Thank you Brother Allen!

[@chrisanthemum7]

Wouldn't be surprised if these were the first rape laws ever recorded. People are really sheltered from reality and history. A man in Israel's camp is not some stranger following a girl home from a party anyway. Everyone knows everyone and women were closely guarded. There was no place to quietly commit a sin like that. Hence the "cry out" stipulation.

[@nickjones1314]

Maat had rules to deal with this thousands of years before anything biblical. Remember your bible says that Moses was learned in all the ways of the Egyptians.. So many of these laws and concepts come from Egypt.

[@Lore-kf8im]

​@@nickjones1314 it would be interesting to read the records about it.

[@nickjones1314]

@@Lore-kf8im check into it. The wwritings of Maat actually exist. This is a spiritual system that lasted for about 3000 years. It's a real part of human history

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

@@nickjones1314 Really? Did they write them down somewhere?

[@nickjones1314]

@@user-vm5ud4xw6n Yes

[@Krazie316]

Well put...I wrote a refutation years ago that mirrors this video on my site.

[@robertsaari223]

Good job explaining that.

[@Mama2three-m3x]

As a Christian that married her rapist I can say this is not what this means, If I had known to call it rape I would not have done it.

[@victory9285]

As a christian woman, I am honestly happy to be born in this age. No matter how we look at it, women rights have done a lot of good, extremists will always exist.

[@ifeanyipatrick4591]

What rights? Sleep around?

[@Bathoggywinger]

"Women's rights" from secular society, it seems you will take many with you to hell, Jezebel.

[@amyhenningsgard8618]

@@ifeanyipatrick4591Think she means things like voting, and owning property, etc…

[@Laura7-s]

​@@ifeanyipatrick4591 what are u ? Mórón?

[@sabin97]

@@ifeanyipatrick4591 not having to marry an assaulter.....

[@darlenemoragne-sheaff5794]

I am so grateful for your teachings, bro Parr. WOW! Thank you, Lord.

[@JESUS_IS_KING777_12]

I don’t get why atheist attack God being that if everybody obeyed Him in the first place there would be no evil like rape🤦🏾‍♂️ rape is a form of sexual immorality. God showed us in the beginning of Genesis what his will for sex was when he created humans. Genesis 2:24 ”Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.“ ‭‭

[@tryphenarose384]

But if everyone obeyed, there'd be lots of polygamy, since the bible allowed for men to take multiple wives - who then none of them could be allowed to divorce.

[@JESUS_IS_KING777_12]

@@tryphenarose384 please show me one verse in the Bible where God “commanded” polygamy. The only verse I can remember of God commanding relationship is Genesis 2:24 which I quoted in my original comment. In the Old Testament God allowed a lot of stuff which He Himself never commanded like divorce, slavery, and even polygamy which you mentioned. He allowed them because He understood that they had to exist to maintain an imperfect world. The Pharisees questioned Christ of why divorce was allowed in the law, and Jesus answered by saying “Moses,because of the hardness of your hearts permitted you to divorce your wives, but in the beginning it was not so”-Matthew 19:8. In the Old Testament God clearly stated that He hates divorce because it covers one’s garment with violence. and he commands men not to deal treacherously with the companion of their youth-Malachi 2:13-16. The Old covenant was to maintain an imperfect world through the Israelites, The new covenant was to fulfill God’s perfect will through Christ, and that is by walking in the Spirit.

[@JESUS_IS_KING777_12]

@@tryphenarose384 quotes from Previous comment^ Malachi 2:13-16 ”And this is the second thing you do: You cover the altar of the Lord with tears, With weeping and crying; So He does not regard the offering anymore, Nor receive it with goodwill from your hands. Yet you say, “For what reason?” Because the Lord has been witness Between you and the wife of your youth, With whom you have dealt treacherously; Yet she is your companion And your wife by covenant. But did He not make them one, Having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth. “For the Lord God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one’s garment with violence,” Says the Lord of hosts. “Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously.”“ Matthew 19:3-10 ”The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?” And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.” His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”“ ‭‭

[@alicewhitacker-sm5ym]

The atheist because spirit of God disrupts in interfere in their inner demons. They don't want to be held accountable. They want to go through life living the way they. Without any remorse. And I believe that's why a lot of deeds are Done in darkness. And they probably feel they should not be held accountable or be under any authority. So is there is no God knowing that God sees everything when there's no God that means they're not seen for. Exedra exedra the list goes on. But they also want to blame God for the problems in the world. I said I'm looking within themselves to realize it is us that is the problem. We make the problem and expect God to fix it. Like for instance with all the money America has we watch children on the street starving instead feeding them and taking them. They'd rather blame God for allowing it🙄

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

If that was the case we wouldn’t have free will. God could easily have made us all robots!

[@michaelreinhardt2974]

Thanks for teaching us important information as always amen God bless you 💝💝🙏🙏

[@someonethatisachristian]

KJV is very clear, this is a problem if you read NIV. One if the many reasons why i do NOT suggest NIV and why i would orient myself around KJV.

[@grant2149]

Excatly

[@Yahshuaismyeverything]

Niv is written by Satanists glad Yahweh pulled me away from it!

[@BADDMIXX]

Amen! KJV Is The Best Option. Too Many Rewrites!

[@bufficliff8978]

KJV has errors, missing passages, extra passages, and uses out-of-date language that also confuses. The NIV isn't the only translation that translates it this way. The KJV is the only translation that translates it that way. ESV is a more reliable translation and says "violates." It's fine to prefer a translation, but KJV is objectively worse than NLT and ESV, and KJV translates from the Volgate--not original manuscripts as modern translations do, and the volgate itself had many errors. Prefer one to another, but KJV is objectively worse. What's most amazing is how a worse translation still gets almost everything right and the gospel is unaltered.

[@someonethatisachristian]

@@bufficliff8978 Nonsense. You peddle deception and the flawed nestle aland text here. Prove an "error" in KJV, and ill show you have no clue what you talk about to the best of my ability since i cant post links here, but i can show you how to search it up.

[@kittyLseay]

I’m reading the book of Deuteronomy right now so this is great

[@PeteysPonderings1220]

Just because YOU can explain away one horrible verse to make yourself feel better doesnt mean the bible is true.

[@linuxramblingproductions8554]

Yes

[@sabin97]

it wasnt even "explained away". he just tried to spin and rationalize it. but it still says the victim has to marry the perp.

[@bjo004]

So proud of you Allen. ❤

[@multipl3]

These parts of the Bible really infuriate me. Its Jewish history not Christian. We shouldn't feel obligated to justify it so I don't. I just say people were crazy back then

[@oldschool5]

Naw you cant do that. Christians are bound by the old testament as well. The bible says God doesnt change.

[@yaderh6847]

They were written as a shadow to a spiritual truth. The oneness between God and the church. God doesn't force anyone, but the union between Him and the church is unbreakable.

[@oldschool5]

@@yaderh6847 Why you tellin us what god doesnt do? Let god speak for self

[@benjamin.kelley]

Allen, your videos are always so interesting and help me understand the Bible better.

[@AndersonBakerKonig]

sunday is not the lords day, anyone who thinks that and calls themselves "protestant" clearly isn't a "protestant"

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

What does that have to do with anything? So do you think we can’t rest on any given day? I was a nurse who often had to work every other weekend. My “sabbath “ was on Monday. You don’t think I’m going to hell for that do you?

[@nethasmith9959]

" Footloose and fancy free" 🤣🤣 I just heard this phrase in 2023 from one of my friends

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

He will one day come to regret those words. Hope you took the time to explain why that’s not a good idea!

[@nethasmith9959]

@user-vm5ud4xw6n why? U can't say footloose and fancy free? 🤦🏾‍♀️

[@ifeifesi]

Whatever, life was tough for women of that time😪

[@bariettaperez]

It’s always been tough because of evil men, never because of God

[@Rigorous_Storm]

Life was tough for everyone in those times.

[@markyoder9819]

Life was tough for everyone, especially women and children.

[@oldschool5]

@@bariettaperez No. God made women the first teachers that we all have on this planet.. Man told us that women cant teach in a church. God made it to where women introduce life through their womb for all of mankind.. Its man that told us that a woman came from man and came to man as a HELPER. Man told us that a woman was tricked by a talking snake. No god told you that. Man created these myths to put women in a lessor role. God has put women in a extremely special role.. But you choose to listen to what man says instead of looking at what God has done. You act like men's nipples naturally produce milk when the baby cries.. Never let man's mythologies have authority over Gods Natural Law

[@Tinesthia]

@@bariettaperez That’s like blaming the sword for cutting you instead of the one wielding it or the one who forged the sword in the first place knowing what it was goin to be used for.

[@EstherWonch]

I don't know if you'll ever read this, but I can't thank you enough for putting out this video. I was married off while still a minor child, to a man in his 20s who had raped me. I could not go home to my parents, and as a minor, I had no means to get a full time job or a place to live or the legal ability to file for divorce. Women's shelters would not take me because I was a child. Child services wouldn't help because I was emancipated and married. I simply had to suffer his abuse until I turned 18 and could divorce him, taking my child with me. Though I also had Biblical grounds for the divorce, this passage of scripture has always troubled me as a Christian who loves the word of God, but who knows what it is like to be married to a rapist with no means of escape. To know for certain that God never condoned that is healing. Thank you.

[@tatenda6498]

Sorry for what you went through. May God continue to bless you.

[@lalaiana2179]

Hi brother Allen. Quick question on this. How does punishment for rape work with married couples? I watched a marriage and divorce sermon that really triggered me. Coming from a broken home where my mother was abused and raped and almost committed suicide from these things. My father was also intimate outside of their relationship. I'm wrestling with marriage and how people cannot be parted. Are spouses in these situations still supposed to stay with their abusive spouse even though their vows have been made void and death could be imminent? I've studied and found that the word Porneia in the context of Matt 19: 9 is a broad term that includes sexual immorality AND licentiousness which means a disregard of accepted moral rules and standards, lack of moral restraint, dissoluteness and lasciviousness. So basically, anything within the marriage that could violate the marriage vows, not just sexual immorality. Please help, I'm having a hard time reconciling with this and wanted to know a second opinion. I'd hope you could make a video on this. Thank you.

[@user-vm5ud4xw6n]

I’m not Allen but from a woman’s standpoint I’m pretty sure God will not tolerate His children being abused. God does not condone divorce but it was given because of the hardness of their hearts.

[@johnygoodwin3441]

I think you've answered it quite adequately yourself

[@em77775]

There's a great 3-hour video by Mike Winger on divorce and remarriage you should check out and get some clarity. There's a lot of twisted, legalistic content on YT that only condemns and traps people, and it's not right.

[@amyhenningsgard8618]

Abuse is grounds for divorce. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

[@lalaiana2179]

@johnygoodwin3441 I want to believe that, but I'm not a scholar, and I'd rather hear the opinions of others than assume something from my own understanding since I already have a biased opinion.

[@seeuinaugust]

Thank you very much for this Allen. This verse has been heavy on my heart and mind and was causing me to question my faith. God definitely used you to answer my question. God bless

[@oldsoul3733]

Where in the bible does it say MEN must be virgins when they marry? I'm reading the bible but I take issue with the one sided virtue over this topic. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[@dianaroach3093]

You can start at 1 Corinthians 7:25--28. Pray before you read it and for God's wisdom and understanding. If you're a Christian, ask God to open your spiritual eyes. If not a Christian yet. Ask Jesus into your heart. For he is the son of God. Who died and three days later, rose from the dead. Ask the holy spirit to help you understand what your reading. Repent of your sins. There is another place where God speaks of sexual immortality. Let me see if I can find it.

[@lorddio4280]

It seems more like an inevitability than a rule.

[@Andy-gq5hb]

Well explained! Glad I watched!

[@sevp.8185]

What I don't understand about the verses mentioned in the video: 1)Why is it always the women? What if the woman discovers after marriage that the man was not a virgin? Is that completely ignored or what is happening then? So premarital Sex for men is OK but nor for women or what? 2) The thing with bed sheets and blood from the virgin is a myth. Doesn't happen or rarely happens. Wonder how many women had to die due to this stupid myth. 3) Why does a woman have to die when she was raped in town? How many women nowadays are raped in cities and in the town and no one notices? Again I wonder how many women had to suffer and die just because of this rule...

[@oakjazz]

I’m very sure some apologist somewhere will have ready excuses for those questions and any other weird stuff in the Bible.🙂

[@yaderh6847]

'Virgin' does not apply to men. Remember that this are types and shadows to our relationship to God. Apostle Paul said he had lost everything to gain Christ. The woman gains the man- and changes. She is the blank sheet, not the man.

[@aaronwalcott513]

This was a detailed study. Good work.

[@selahr.]

The church has a long history of ignoring SA, and that damage is part of what’s fueling this specific debate. Not having translations that kept up with the changing language also got us here. Then add in the fact that many preachers wouldn’t cover this topic because it is such a hard topic and society didn’t want to talk about it, or when they did talk about it it came across more as an attack on promiscuous men and women rather than explaining the non consenting violence exceptions. A lot of Christians today forget just how recently the world changed to where we now have so many translations available, have so many published and online resources, have such ease in buying Bibles, etc… but even how recent it is that we have a culture where personal Bible reading is seen as normal. I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s in the Bible Belt and it was the norm for families to own a family Bible, and maybe even some kids owning their own, but many churches still held up their pastor as being the one in charge of reading the Bible to you and explaining it to you while you maybe followed along. It was not unusual for churches to only have hymnals for the congregation. More than once I can remember a church leader telling me or my parents to “leave the Bible reading for the pastor” because they thought regular people were too stupid to understand it on their own. I know many women in my generation not only believed these passages condemned them for being a victim, but also if they specifically couldn’t “scream for help.” Even our own legal system bought into that idea in many other places and legally used that as a reason not to hold some men accountable. These women are the mothers or grandmothers to the current people still debating this topic and using it as a reason to stay away from church. It’s not fair to say these people are just being stupid. @thebeatagp Thank you again for covering this. As a child growing up in the church while being SA at home, this **was** one of several “church hurts”/Bible confusions that almost destroyed my faith. Edit: I would like to add that I wish churches and Bible study notes should also make it clear that “screaming for help” is also broadly inclusive of the idea of “reporting it in any way.” Meaning, after the event comes to light if the victim calls it an assault it is not considered consensual whether or not she (or he) was successful or actually able to scream in any way whatsoever. When you report it as an assault to anyone that is in fact the same as screaming for help. Period. A just and good God knows exactly what consent is and when it ceased to exist, even if no one else involved does. (And making false accusations is already covered elsewhere). But we don’t seem to be there yet.