Konrad Curze: A Cautionary Tale

[@pedropierre9594]

I liked how Konrad liked Sanguinius enough to always be honest with him, always held him to high regards because he could see there was no deviousness about him

[@Psyker_Unredactus]

Its very sad that their divination powers were so similar but because of the nature of their upbringing they viewed the plausible futures to different rationales. Curze always saw the worst as the most likely, while Sanguinius always saw hope in the future because that meant there was always something left more than worth saving.

[@MehWhatever-uw9gc]

The question is, did he like he didn’t lie, or couldn’t lie. This goes for both, vice versa.

[@pedropierre9594]

@@MehWhatever-uw9gche could of lied, maybe thats why he liked him because he didnt

[@krel3358]

I think along with Horus, Sangy was the only primarch everyone got along with, I cant recall anyone saying they didnt like him.

[@BTM8109]

I love that scene where Sanguinius reaches out to Curze and almost gets through to him

[@anguswaterhouse9255]

This dude can see the future, but couldn’t see that Vulkans hammer, was in fact, a hammer

[@CrashCanuck537]

Also didn't think to leave any actual space marines to keep control of Nostromo, he wasn't the best at paying attention to the details.

[@anedgygundampilot8208]

@@CrashCanuck537Wasn’t it like just one guy who ended up becoming the level 50 mafia boss?

[@kimmogensen4888]

He doesn’t see everything and many of his visions was not even true like with everyone in 40k there are none who can 100% see the future in 40k only possible futures and not every possible future

[@jmgonzales7701]

@@kimmogensen4888 fatalistic

[@doodmcswood507]

@@kimmogensen4888 Bro sees himself getting hit, dodges the blow he saw hit him, and then turns around and calls his predictions infallible.

[@fragarach97]

"Hey guys, Night_Haunter8 here back at it with another unboxxing video!" [SOUND OF MUFFLED SCREAMING THROUGH DUCT TAPE] "We've got a very special man to unbox today, so let's not waste any time and dig right in!"

[@shonklebonkle324]

"Ooh, look at that. It's a Vulkan. He's pretty rare. Let's unbox him to see what's in there" [weeks of horrible screams and guts splooshing out on the ground] "Now, i've gotten tired of opening him up but don't worry, i'm going to try to open up their soul." [Reveals a row of skinned still living civilians.]

[@karlwikman3874]

Konrad is a representation of one of the most horrifying things in existence: Having to face the reality that your entire life has been wasted, and all your efforts in that which you stood for were for nothing.

[@dapperultron1784]

Too bad Conrad didn't survive the experience, it might've been the event that changed his outlook for the better.

[@21pope]

the true lesson and often hidden beauty of It, Its that nothing Is wasted, you learn your true path and all of the things you’ve done will help you achieve your true self and goals

[@21pope]

Had he only been more like Vulkan he’ll be a great person

[@Xbalanque84]

I view his death as an act of self-centered cowardice. In trying to make a point (and not a very good one), he opted to abdicate any moral culpability he -might have- definitely had by chalking all his actions up to fate. It was pathetic, and almost entirely self-negating as a gesture. I doubt even the Chaos gods would want his soul.

[@ayarzeev8237]

@@Xbalanque84Konrad had to believe it was fate. He could not face that Sanguinius was correct, that Konrad became the way he did by his own will. To acknowledge that he could have chosen differently would have solidified himself as a monster of his own making.

[@Brandon-vb7yx]

Few nitpicks: Curze didn't see multiple futures, he saw A future, the worst possible one. Nostramo being Nostramo these came true pretty often, to the point Curze thought he didn't see a possible future, but the only future. This tied into his death. He saw the assassin coming, he saw she would kill him, but if he stopped her, then the future wasn't set in stone. Everything he did, the skinning pits, the tortures, everything went from a necessary evil, to just pure evil. And Curze couldn't handle that. So, him saying 'death is nothing compared to vindication' is him choosing to die believing it was preordained rather than face the fact that everything he did was all of his own volition

[@ortiznikko]

You're right about how Curze felt and his ideology. But, in his book there was one or two clear examples of him seeing multiple futures, but he chose to believe the worst ones. The boy he killed, that could've been an ally or a crime lord. Curze killed the kid just to be safe.

[@TheWarpForge]

Yeah, The Primarch book really screwed a few things with the precgotion. Guy Haley should have never wrote that book.

[@Xbalanque84]

I view his death as an act of self-centered cowardice. In trying to make a point (and not a very good one), he opted to abdicate any moral culpability he -might have- definitely had by chalking all his actions up to fate. It was pathetic, and almost entirely self-negating as a gesture. I doubt even the Chaos gods would want his soul.

[@ZeroNumerous]

@@TheWarpForge No, his precognition is a perfect example of how Curze could never be anything more than he was. Remember, Curze CHOSE evil. He didn't fall to Chaos, he didn't have a point in betraying the Emperor, he didn't have a goal: He just plain chose Evil.

[@robdenini6972]

That's such a kick ass concept. I read a few days ago an excerpt where Sevatar enters Curze's mind, and Curze began ranting about how his legion is terrible and sadistic, but then Sevatar calls him out by telling him they were like that because of Curze himself, that Curze secretly enjoyed all that, the Night Lords were made on his image. Which of course Curze can't accept, because then his facade falls apart: Curze's motivations aren't noble, he isn't the embodiment of justice. He is just another criminal from Nostramo with delusions of self righteousness. The visions allowed him the illusion of feeling right, hence why he had to accept his fate, otherwise his whole self image would crumble to dust and only hypocrisy would remain.

[@barlotardy]

So I have a theory: As we know, a space marine can gain the memories of any intelligent creature they consume part of. Presumably, this ability is more pronounced for a Primarch; What did Konrad eat pretty much the entire time he was on Nostromo? THE ABSOLUTE WORST DEVIANT CRIMINAL SCUM HE ENCOUNTERED. I wonder if he ate so many criminals that their memories started to bleed into his own, driving him mad (madder?).

[@henrypaleveda7760]

even with the separation (knowing that those memories aren't his) it would still drive him mad. and it would shape his view of humanity. That would be the single worst state humanity had been in by their own hand.

[@avaferret]

Don't space Marines have a special organ implanted to do that? Do we know if primarchs "grow" those on their own?

[@varunnathamuni5540]

​@@avaferret The Emperor genetically engineered the Primarchs so I assumed the Primarchs would have the same organs plus extra for their super engineered bodies.

[@jonathanathor117]

So an Alex mercer scenario but gone of the deep end way to fast (if we don't count prototype 2)

[@DewayneMcClure-bm2pj]

​@@jonathanathor117Curze's upbringing is upsetting because he was built to save a species he only ever got to know the worst aspects of. Like, I'd be more surprised if he wasnt insane

[@PopoXReturnz]

When my (ex)wife was pregnant, we were talking about names. I started listing off the names of the primarchs in a joking way(she knew nothing of Warhammer40k). When I landed on Konrad Curze, she said she loved that name, and now my son is named Conrad. Though... He got my tanned skin and her blonde hair instead of her pale skin and my black hair 😤

[@Lawlz4Dayzz]

Should show her Konrad Kurze stories lol

[@ambientlightofdarknesss4245]

ngl Conrad is a pretty normal name by most standards

[@PopoXReturnz]

@@Lawlz4Dayzz I did! I was listening to the "Konrad Curze: Night haunter " audiobook and she listened with me until it got to the part where he resumes talking to his handmade meat-statue of the emperor while eating a scared servant's heart like an apple. She was like "that's not how our son is gonna be!". Nowadays he eats teddy grahams like a sadist, though.

[@PopoXReturnz]

@@ambientlightofdarknesss4245 well it's kind of an older version of Connor. But it was how we settled on the name that I thought was noteworthy.

[@Lawlz4Dayzz]

@@PopoXReturnz Well you start out small with graham cracks then work your way up to a human heart lol

[@crockles8754]

Konrad has always, since I first touched a CSM mini, been my favourite primarch, but even I must admit, his fans are more schizophrenic than he is, he is supposed to be like Owlman but gothic, not like goth hello kitty guy 💀

[@ConspiracyOpossum]

Hi showing my age but he’s a lot closer to the older pulp hero’s like the shadow then an owlman

[@fer45026torw]

honestly goth hello kitty guy sounds WAY scarier

[@jmgonzales7701]

@@ConspiracyOpossum owlman is more interesting thou

[@Nyctophora]

We're not all like that :D

[@DetectiveLance]

Konrad isn't my favorite primarch, I'd honestly hesitate to say I have one at all. But I'd be hard pressed to say to you with a straight face he isn't the most compelling of them. He's an absolute monster of a human being that, by the time of the Emperor's arrival I don't think he could have been redeemed. But I'll never hold that against him. He still could have changed and been a necessary monster instead of a hopeless one. Edit: Also, Transylvanian power armor is such a fuxking look, my GAWD, he and his sons have style!

[@HexaDecimus]

No they are cringe

[@sugma42069]

He and his sons definitely do some of the worst shit in the setting, but they certainly look sick as fuck while doing it

[@ThunderCraker12]

thats why i like the version of him in the facfic Roboutian Heresy, what could have been for him

[@JackWendigo1234]

​@@HexaDecimus YoU'rE CrInGe!

[@TabukiJones]

Shut up nerd

[@Venneroth]

What separates the Night Lords from other Astartes is they do know fear. That includes Curze. He has to be pessimistic and fatalistic, that his choices were a dire necessity, because the Night Haunter is haunted, himself. The guilt of several human lifetimes of atrocity are one step behind him and all it would take for them to catch up is the thought that things didn't have to be that way.

[@bkis1838]

Arguably the Goofiest Goober among the Primarchs to be honest.

[@Eleven217]

Absolute Goblin energy

[@robertbailey3760]

03​@@Eleven217

[@robertbailey3760]

0low

[@robertbailey3760]

E23w222×wwe❤ platform 😊😊) 😊

[@MipCraze]

*skins four people* Woops I just got too silly I guess!

[@redcarp9867]

I was in inpatient therapy for a year and a half after I attempted suicide. During an outing to a bookstore, I saw books for 40k. I always had a passing interest so I picked up The Night Haunter as my first ever book. I fell in love right then and there. I loved the story of Konrad Curze. I found him and his sons to be absolutely fascinating. While he's no longer my favorite Primarch, I still have a soft spot for Curze. As thanks to him, I found my favorite sci-fi setting, and his story helped direct my growth. Konrad Curze always did have light in him, even outside of 40k.

[@tctc4413]

Curze could be redeemed; his slave witnessed him have a single moment of optimism, so Curze killed him...

[@fixedG]

If you view all of the Primarchs as the Emperor's sons imbued like children are with certain characteristics of their parents, I think each of the Primarchs is an example of what the Emperor himself might have been. The canon is the canon, but basically each of them had the essence of the Emperor yet with a chaotic random number generator assigned to their upbringing. Sanguinius and Curze are maybe the two best examples of the noble heights and ignominious depths of what the Emperor could be as a ruler if he weren't imbued with plot armor.

[@Xbalanque84]

Oh good, so it's not just me who views the primarchs this way. Other examples: Magnus: Hubris Lion El'Jonson: Paranoia, hypocrisy Jaghatai Khan: Dynamism, fighting against complacency Vulkan: Compassion Roboutte Guilliman: Pragmatism, planning

[@derrabbit7289]

Night Lords are my favorite legion. I wonder what Konrad would have been like if he had been raised on a different planet or had someone found him, loved him, and actually raised him.

[@S_047]

See the various what if traitors were loyalists and vice versa vids. (Majorkill being the ones I know) Like the Lion El heresy or Dorn heresy. It's only small tidbit but he comes out more like Sanguinis albeit edgy . Think one the idea was he got adopted by a nice lady and became Batman

[@cr1ms0n64]

He would have been a Batman mixed with a judge.

[@Book_worm.75]

Arthur. My guy, you know how to dive into the psyche of characters in 40k. The Lion and Dorn videos you made changed me in a way.

[@ohmygoditisspider7953]

it's cool how honest people are willing to be about stuff like that. I think it takes a bit of courage to do that. i hope you're doing well, whoever you are.

[@Warriorsoul101]

Can't wait for him to get to Lorgar. Fingers crossed he doesn't just shit on him.

[@bernardnoel9717]

Konrad is definitely one of the most interesting Primarchs. The drakness around his character just makes it even deeper and dramatic. good vid man.

[@harald_smth]

what do you mean fans of kurze is not normal? i am perfectly normal and totally not see my own pessimism in Kurze's character

[@S_047]

See? This guy gets it!

[@blackjak4185]

Truer words have never been said, brother. Ave Dominus Nox

[@lawrenceseng5267]

Likewise brother.. likewise.. Ave Dominus Nox

[@Cyanosis132]

If you're actually having trouble remembering what the first letters of konrads name are, just call him kacy and you won't forget

[@milkwalkerjones633]

Kansas City

[@jackmurray302]

0:01 suddenly want to see how "curse of Strahd" would run with Strahd being possessed by Curze (has the same stats, but the entire personality being replaced by Curze)

[@OldmanSponge-g4d]

I just want a Decimus book or trilogy from ADB. But alas I doubt my children will live to see that day.

[@stoops187]

Amen

[@Eckskalibur]

Let’s not forget that as a child, after he dug his way out of the crater his pod made, if my memory is correct he was hungry and there was only an abandoned guy in said crater. Who, coincidentally, was a monster and Curze’s weird Primarch and Primarch-based gene absorbed some of the information from said person’s brain, leading to see horrible memories of where the hell he was at. So like many of the traitorous Primarchs, they were forced into a position where they were either metaphorically, or quite literally (in which case can be literally or figuratively) poisoned from the start. It’s a pattern that happens throughout -all- most of them. Horus with the anathema blade, Angron cursed with the butcher’s nails, Lorgar and his horrible father and Erebus’s goading, Fulgrim and the Slaanesh blade, Perturabo and insufficient parenting, Magnus and not knowingly dealing with Tzeentch, and Mortarion with Barbarus. But what about Alpharius, some of you may ask. Well, as the saying goes. This is a lie.

[@huntermad5668]

Mortarion is a hypocrite through. He held up on the "kill steal" but he conveniently forgot the Big E only intervened after he was defeated and about to be finished off. The main cause of his betrayal is a lie. Not ti mention he wasn't in the best of term with Nurge.

[@BrainSlime38]

A Konrad redemption is something I think of frequently. If only...

[@josephboustany4852]

All the primarchs can be saved The dead ones and the damned ones Both malcador and Big E have said as much That being said I'm hoping the first one to be saved will be Konrad The deck was stacked against him so hard it actually pisses me off He landed on Nostramo He had to eat the criminals of Nostramo and primarchs have the ability to gain the memory of those they eat just like space marines His visions fucked him over real hard God I hope one day we read about Konrad being restored

[@Pepe-pq3om]

​@@josephboustany4852 Why did he had to eat humans?

[@MrSamulai]

@@Pepe-pq3om At first because there was no other food. Later because he realized he could absorb the memories of those he ate which was obviously super helpful when he started his vigilante arc.

[@ElGordoBandito]

I’m starting to think Mr Bones may be becoming a fan of the Night Lords. Possibly

[@S_047]

I'm picking that up myself. And I like it

[@odinlindeberg4624]

"Becoming", you say? It sounds like he's already finished the trilogy.

[@gadzilla6664]

He literally said that they were his favorite Legion.

[@00persia]

Always has been 🔫

[@championastartes]

Imagine the heartbeat of the assassin that took his head, knowing that at any half second of making their move could he have ended them.

[@Tehstampede]

Of all the chaos legions, the Word Bearers and Night Lords make the most sense in the 40k universe.

[@doodmcswood507]

...like for existing?

[@LinkiePup]

People who like Nightlords unironically genuinely scare me- YOU’RE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE THEM!!! THEY FLAY INNOCENT PEOPLE!! STOP CALLING HIM A BOOBOO BEAR!!!

[@myonlyfriendtheend4958]

It seems the lessons of the legion must be taught again brothers

[@NightLordShadow]

Teach this one a lesson for our booboo bear, brothers.

[@mementomori771]

This fandom is all about people taking the things you're not supposed to like and liking them too much ):

[@Delta-es1lg]

I can like the nightlords as characters and enjoy their stories, the effort spent in writing, and all of that, without necessarily condoning or celebrating the actual things they do, in the same way that I can like the Imperium while not actually wanting to live in it. It's fiction, bro, chill out.

[@wmen48]

I detect fear. I detect sin. I detect punishment should be administered.

[@BrainSlime38]

I wish that Vulkan had managed to bring Konrad's humanity back.

[@kristianfischer9814]

It's interesting to consider the juxtaposition between Curze and the next Primarch Arthur will be looking at, especially the ways their lives ended and their own role in that.

[@jamzee_]

Though Konrad is not my favorite… some of the artwork his insane fans make is my favorite. And then theres *that* artwork of him… which also is my favorite.

[@mzamethodman7134]

What artwork?

[@jamzee_]

@@mzamethodman7134 that slaaneshy type :3

[@mzamethodman7134]

@@jamzee_ Ah

[@spartastic4]

Konrsd and the Night Lords will always hold a special place in my heart. While they were not the first Space Marines I was introduced to, that was the Blood Ravens, they were the first that I found out about when getting into 40k and honestly liked them. Such a shame that they don't get anything new about them. Glad that they did grt some models a few months back though.

[@myonlyfriendtheend4958]

Sanguinous has and always will be my favorite primarch but curze is such a fun character

[@Kurze099]

Best primarch and the best legion. Ave dominus nox

[@waynegoddard4065]

In midnight clad brother. We have come for you.

[@S_047]

Ave Dominus Nox

[@velstadtvonausterlitz2338]

I...I mean.. should we spare the children? The infants? They're innocent, ye?

[@LJD442]

When I first got into Warhammer I though Curze and the Night Lords were insane nihilist that I could never like. Then I got to Unrememebered Empire, Pharos and Angels of Caliban. Yes the Night Lords are monsters but somehow they can have interesting and enjoyable charcters for a pact of murders.

[@OneReallyGrumpyJill]

This is why I love his relationship with Sev; Konrad lashed out, but he never went back to heal, to establish institution so that corruption would not come back. I always thought that resolution to his relationship with Sangi felt out of character for Sangi and rushed. People bitch about Konrad, but he is a good example of a closed one losing it due to mental illness.

[@Pepe-pq3om]

BS

[@carloslwanga3143]

I have always wanted to be Gulliman but in the back of my mind, I always felt uncomfortably like Curze. Figured it out recently, Curze believed that fate was set in stone. I, subconsciously, believed that I was a slave to my circumstances and that I couldn't change them. Learning that we are not slaves to our circumstances rather our circumstances are a direct result of our decisions and the actions that we take. Love 40k. The lore is like a mirror of human nature.

[@Brandypop]

The Night Haunter is a big example that there was a vast swathe of the primarchs, about half, who needed some pretty significant therapy but the Emperor is a terrible parent.

[@leestauffenecker6227]

An alternative to the S Word that shouldn’t get demonized would be “self checkout”

[@flaviomonteiro1414]

As Pontiff said wisely, he cadia'd himself.

[@dragonforce7612]

Self-deletion works fine as well.

[@Balrog4242]

I like Curze cause it's GW saying 'we see you, goths and emos!'... and they get it. He is absolutely right he lives in the grimdark world it's terrible, and he's dead wrong that he's powerless to make it better he's just paralyzed by the usual despair.

[@concretesandals4501]

Ave Dominus Nox! Solruthis veh za jass!

[@Nyctophora]

Ave Dominus Nox, Brother!

[@WhispersinTheWarp]

In my opinion I see Curze as the dark reflection of Sanguinius rather than Corax. The Angel & the Haunter, one a beacon of hope - the other an icon of terror. Both gifted/cursed with foresight but reacting very differently to it. Sanguinius using it as a means to see the many possibilities that lay ahead. Curze, on the other hand, saw it as a prison. His fate tethered to him by an unbreakable chain. The Night Haunter seems to almost be a coping mechanism. A way to escape the reality of his existence & his looming fate. But that's just a theory...A WARHAMMER THEORY!!! YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAH!!!

[@endel12]

Yeah even though Curze and Corax look like twins, Konrad is a reflection more of Sanguinius. Sanguinius worked towards the best possible future, hoped for the best, and deeply cared for his sons. Curze actively created the worst situations, assumed the worst in all his future visions, and hated his sons. Sanguinius saw his death, didn’t want it, but faced it bravely because avoiding it would cause a worse future. Conrad saw his death, wanted it, and accepted his fate as a petulant “no I’m right” statement to an Emperor who was already in the Throne. Corax was more an opposite to Alpharius/Omegon. They both used ‘invisibility’, asymmetric warfare, and interacted with civilians. But Corax saw through illusions, A&O created illusions. The Raven Guard build up civilian rebels and assassinate corrupt leaders, the Alpha legion spread confusion/mistrust through populations and manipulate people in power. Corvus and his legion scout to gain (and nominally share) information, Alpharius and his legion actively create misinformation.

[@WhispersinTheWarp]

@@endel12 absolutely agree 100%

[@Izayoink_Saccuy]

Miss opportunity to name the video Konrad, a Curzed tale

[@lorddevilfish5868]

3:00 I think Sevatar mentioned that Nostromo is home to eyeless sharks (which would be pretty badass if they’re Frilled Sharks or Viper Sharks) and there’s a xenobiology video by 40K theories on flesh eating bats.

[@comradeshadles4967]

I’m ashamed of the amount to time it took me to realizes Conrad Kurze and his justifications were very close to Col. Kurtz from “Apocalypse Now” Also his home world is named after the ship from the first Alien movie

[@TheWarpForge]

And the Assassin is named M'Shen which was meant to be shortand for Martain Sheen. The Guy who kills Colonel Kurtz in Apoicalypse now. It's all a big refrence to the film.

[@vinc2303]

Movie inspired by the book, Heart of darkness, written by a dude named Conrad.

[@WiseguyThreeOne]

THANK YOU for not making me post it. 🎉

[@KhârnTheAngry]

I first read the video title as "Konrad Curze: a CULINARY Tale" I had a few concerns.

[@Ganggank9000]

I honestly enjoy you talking about life philosophies more than 40k, you have such a beautiful mindset, thank you for inspiring me gang.

[@rcIII273]

1:04 GW put two K’s in a sub blurb about the heresy in the chaos codex so it’s everyone

[@BiomassEnjoyer]

If the citizens of the imperium didn’t want to be skinned alive they shouldn’t have such nice skin 😮

[@Mad_Geniuz]

the funny thing is the nightlords and curze would be very useful in the modern impruam. haveing a marine force that could swoop and crush any cult or rebllion and send a msg at the same time

[@beniwalimurica1711]

Having this track from everywhere at the end of time fits very well in relation to Curze’s agonizing unraveling.

[@liamkozell]

everywhere at the end of time fits so well canonically with Konrad to me, his slow descent into madness and inevitable realization at the very end before his death; just *chefs kiss*

[@theliato3809]

The sad part about Kurze is that he may have never really known what it was like to be human because of his upbringing. Even Angron had a few people he could call family to teach him this before the Nails took his mind.

[@drukharimatter2962]

Just wanted to say thanks for your videos, Bones. I’ve been following you since you were under 5 or 10k I think, and it’s been a pleasure seeing your channel grow! I hope it keeps going. I just recently moved back to Halifax after many years away, and it had lead to a pretty busy and stressful year of work. Your videos and passion for 40k have helped me get through it all, so thanks!

[@pole8740]

he’s such a tragic character, i get the feeling if that he never landed on nostromo, got the help he needed, be cared for, be loved, he would genuinely be a decent person

[@Comrade_Thrasher]

That last meme with the triple shot of espresso sounds actually not bad

[@Daredevil_MCZ]

0:19 kinda worried when u hear this in a Konrad Curze video lol

[@Stepsonsofdorn]

Your deeper interpretation of the motivations and psyches of the characters in 40k is what makes this the best grimdark content on KZbin. Excited for Martarion... eventually.

[@Gillymonster18]

You make really good videos, and I love the background music you use.

[@GRIMBB]

Ah yes strahd. My favourite night lord captain.

[@WeOnlyEatSoup]

Such an interesting character and legion, they stuck out to me the most before I knew much about 40k when i was younger and naive to the setting

[@nicholashindman1379]

Clonrad Kurse took the old Super Slide.

[@robertreynolds442]

Loved this one! Couldn't agree more with your points my dude.

[@codynickles7788]

I love the night lords because they think like kids.If I'm so big and bad the world will fix itself out of fear. They never understood that you need to give people hope for the better with the fear. They make their own demons not knowing they can be better than their father.

[@Thraximundar268]

I opened the video for a good time and then i felt judged

[@Thraximundar268]

My fav primarch is perturabo tho

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

I always thought the death vs vindication line was also a slam on the Emperor and all others in the imperium who abhorred The Nighthaunter’s tactics and sense of justice. The assassin arriving was proof the Emperor was no better than him, and that he was right not only ethnically, but also factually correct in his pessimistic fatalism.

[@RRed19]

Curze won against Big E. It may have cost him his life but he won (at least in his eyes) Pointing out the hypocrisy of his father was his final victory.

[@Lock_Knight]

If you can see Konrad, he can see you. If you cannot see Konrad, you may be moments away from death.

[@ekki6820]

Curze, Lorgar, and Angron are my top three picks for most compelling stories. That being said? I will always be a Word Bearer lad. Remember Monarchia!

[@TabukiJones]

Homie only wanted to know the truth

[@noided583]

The idea that Kurze is a discount Strahd Von Zarovitch is fucking hilarious to me - even if it doesn't make much sense. Thanks for that xD

[@ShadowOfMoria]

konrad sounds like evil batman

[@TheGreySpectrum]

I hate to be a weenie and say all of this but I always immediately notice 'Everywhere At The End of Time' playing in your videos and it's like instant anxiety. I do really like your videos and the perspective you give, but hearing that music makes it difficult to sit through them. You may have dropped it since this point and your Angron video (the first I watched, moments ago) but I don't know and I probably wont continue. It's really just an issue of knowing what that album is, and what it means. I don't know if there is anything else in this universe that horrifies me more than dementia. Everyone has those moments where they're standing or walking or even sitting and they just can't remember what they were doing. Often we remember after a few moments of thinking about it, but sometimes we don't, and it can be incredibly frustrating. When we develop dementia, at first it's just more instances of that, but it gradually becomes a constant occurrence. So many people think that dementia is a peaceful way to go, but it's not. You know that you're forgetting things. It just starts doubling and tripling up. You start having times where you're trying to remember why you were trying to remember. You leave notes for yourself because you're you, you're defiant, you wont let it stop you, you're going to fight it and so you'll give yourself reminders. But then you start to forget why it was written, or who wrote it. You're constantly confused, and frustrated. You're always surrounded by people you don't quite recognize. Then you get to a stage where you've degenerated so much that the person you are is gone. Your body is just an animal going through the motions as its brain rots inside of its skull, until that body fails. Sorry. Post is way too long. Suppose I just wanted to give my reasoning. I think your stuff is really good, though. I genuinely do. I just can't hear that music.

[@worth-what]

I think you're being a weenie. I don't like the song he uses because it's really annoying and repetitive.

[@andresperedo1275]

And, about the effectiveness of the Night Lords, they managed to get the DA busy for years, to destroy the Pharos device, and to be in Terra in time for the Siege.

[@ЕвгенийДрагунов-е6м]

Thing that bugging me the most is that Konrad is the type of a primarch that absolutely did not fit alongside his brothers in 30k, but could be a perfect fit in 40k. His mentality, his system of belief is going so toe-to-toe with Imperium of Man in 40th millenia, that i really doubt that he even would think about betrayal. Moreover, to add to your idea of him being possible to redeem is to quote the Emperor himself, claiming that "if they could meet one more time he would turn Curze back to light". Fun thing to add is that apparently Konrad himself stating in beforementioned dialogue that "You (E.) could have made me ruthless, instead you made me evil". Meaning he do understand that something terribly wrong whith him.

[@RRed19]

Curze’s ultimate failing is that he felt his visions would happen no matter what he did, so anything he did to make them happen would be justified. It wasn’t because the future in 40K is spaghetti (thanks Tzeetch) Sanguinus proved that when he threw him into that pod after his trial. Curze couldn’t take the fact that his ENTIRE life choices up until that point was… wrong. And he couldn’t take it, so he cracked completely.

[@fedupN]

I used to love the Night Lords, circa Lord of the Night/Index Astartes days. I was one of the weirdos and the Night Haunter's fatalism and horrible visions added a sense of high drama and tragedy. It felt like fate itself was herding him down a path. For example, in the old fluff, when Curze was struck by a terrible vision of his end and some events of the Heresy so bad he had to reach out to Fulgrim, his assigned mentor, to tell him about the horrors he saw and then Dorn wanted to start something because of this "slight on the Emperor's honor" it was tragic. You could see how this guy teetered on the edge and could believe the terror had a higher purpose. There was ambiguity there, if their visions and poision of Nostromo pushed the Primarch and Legion into the arms of damnation or if they were fooling themselves the whole time. Then the fluff kept going. Now, the ambiguity is GONE. These psychos, INCLUDING CURZE, were making flayed baby pits and saying to his brothers "totes necessary" as they worriedly attempted to console and reason with Curze. There were a PLETHORA of shining examples of compliant, thriving, happy worlds that DIDNT need SAW 40k going twenty four seven to keep folks in line and they still chose torture and dismemberment as "reasonable" responses for jaywalking. ADB, in particularly, is on record loathing the prior Ravenloft style brooding edgelord fest and pushed to show how looney tunes Curze was from the jump. Sure, he writes Sevatar as a likeable, self aware bastard, but it still shows they are all self aware as to their sadistic proclivities, what with flayed skins and corpse galleries all over the place. It's hard to have sympathy when mountains of incidents show nothing PUSHED them off the edge, they were taking a running start the whole time.

[@johnnyscifi]

Sanguinius, for me. All day, every day. Then Mortarion, Magnus, and Corax

[@X7_MERC_MAN_17]

Konrad though..faced his death like a G

[@furryferret111]

As an avid Night Lord fan, (my CSM army is all NL painted and I adore the books), I can confirm that I am a huge fucking weirdo. Great video! Ave Dominus Nox!

[@Nyctophora]

In every book except his Primarch novel, Curze didn't see multiple options and then choose the worst one, he was literally shown only the worst possible outcome, and no matter what he tried, he couldn't stop that outcome. I honestly prefer that, as it's more nuanced and it shows that he fought to prevent what he'd been shown. Perhaps the warp corrupted his gift of visions. I believe he was probably intended to be a precog like one of the 2000AD Judges, seeing crimes before they could happen. He knew very well he was a criminal, which was one reason that he believed he deserved death. He's my favourite Primarch too.

[@morgant.dulaman8733]

I consider Konrad Curze to be my favorite primarch, with either Sanguinius or Rogal Dorn tied for second. Konrad stands for justice as a principle...but he does so with absolutely no concept of grace. As a Christian, I find that fascinating, because one might look at Curze and the Night Lords as what happens when one applies the concept of justice for the wicked, but with no opportunity for redemption, and how that turns to be self-destructive when our own sins become apparent before us. Sanguinius is...okay, I'm going to hate the way I phrase it, but he is the richest and sweetest form of vanilla you can get your hands on, and I love him for it (platonically). More specifically, I love the fact that besides his courage and the way he deals with the flaws within himself and his legion, he stands for compassion, for a willingness to strive to better oneself and the world one interacts with, and that he's willing to display compassion and humility in order to accomplish these ends. Rather than making himself too aloof, I'd argue it makes him human in a way Konrad never allowed himself to be: he knew he could be wrong and he was willing to interact with his sons and normal people as people, not just subjects to be sat over and judged. If Konrad could have adopted that mindset, he might be alive and at the imperium's service today. Rogal Dorn is rigid to a fault. Like Konrad, he has an unairing sense of right and wrong and will act on it for better or for worse. That stalwart (and sometimes pigheaded) assurance in his cause and his willingness to bare enormous costs for those beliefs are compelling, admirable...and given how things panned out between him and Sigismund as well as between himself and Purterabo, it shows how being able to bend a bit or trying to understand others before commading or condemning them (as well as basic people skills) are essential. For the other two, both their strengths and weaknesses play into their heroics. For konrad, his play into why he's a compelling *villain,* and I'm a fan of him as he fulfills his role *as a villain.*

[@fanonfrenzy3809]

14:00 not optimistic or or pessimistic. Law of averages, lifs is neither that bad or that good. The glass is always half filled. Which means theirs always something their. If your hearing that with a tone of optomisie, its just if you roll a sided die your gonna get odds and your gonna get evens. Some people on both sides forget your gonna get one or the other.

[@Sturdy_Penguin]

Hello Mr. Zone. I wanted to let you know that this video wasn't added to your "Meet the Primarchs" playlist. I'm a playlist bro and almost completely missed this video and wanted to let you know so you could add it in there for future playlist bros.

[@lordkek5817]

I know what's up with that same thing with Gillaman

[@MasterofMistakes]

Curze Lives!, now let me preface this as I am not a 'Nightlords' fan but a 'Emps TTS' fan and my favs for SMs is Deathwatch for the 'band of brothers' found family stories and 'Iron Warriors' for everything MrBones said in the Perturabo video, but what I have come to really love about Warhammer in any setting is the 'comedy', there's something I connect with when seeing characters faced with the most nightmare/bad luck moments one could be asked to face and respond with laughter. I see myself as very empathetic to the point of absolute fault, it was a long time for me to figure out "some people just dont want to be helped" and to accept that there was nothing I could do to change that but that should not stop me from being a decent person, be kind, be polite, be patience, now to get back to my first comment. I could fully see Curze 'existing' still, how you may ask, well when his time came he was completely naked and we know in Warhammer souls tend to end up somewhere, and seeing how the Eldar solved the getting eaten by 'HER' with soulstones. What did Curze have, with alot of gemstones on it, his jeweled crown the 'Corona Nox' the thing that was as close as a Mental Limiter that he ever had, I just find it so hilarious to think Curze instead of tombstoning he ends up in his safety helmet, stuck, and has to experience 'living' not as a pawn to fate but a tool, also the image of Rowboat or Lion arguing with 'Magic 8 Ball Curze' is just hilarious, absolute meme if it ever comes to that.

[@bearglueater]

Had the 2nd worst upbringing out of the primarchs. I love him. And even the Russ himself said he didn’t want to fight Cruze 1v1 “he has the power of the insane..”

[@lego_droid1396]

I like this guy, i'm sure gonna watch more of him if i remember to.

[@CaptainPrincess]

I USED to like curze a lot I uh Having since had (and won) my own battle with depressive pessimism he just makes me sad He makes me sand and he kind of frustrates me to be honest People like him do And I try not to hold that against them, I know what its like to be where they were, but I also know what its like to climb out of that hole and I know its possible to stop being that way And so I see curze and people like him languishing in that misery and I wish I could do something to pull them out of it cause Im like "Oh honey no what is you doing"

[@apeasant8550]

Curze is a really neat character to me because of the tragedy of it all, the potential for good in all of them is there and they know it but basically deny it all the time.

[@justincapone]

Finally!!!!! I’ve been waiting for this.😊

[@RandyNelson10]

You’re a good egg, Arthur

[@Slaanesh6969]

Sir, I would like to state, I am a normal night lords fan. I love their lore and love painting them. They are my adorable Sparkle Vampires with tragic backstories. 😊❤

[@bearglueater]

I also really want tzeench to bring him back cuz it turns out he was poisoning his visions and skitzophrenic tendencies. What a guy.

[@B00Radl33]

I gotta say, everyone who enjoyed this should hear NaturallyRPVoiceover's dialogue of Kurze explaining why he chose his methods to one of his chapter masters.

[@Nyctophora]

Thanks, I checked it out! He's very good.

[@AsianPlagueDoctor]

He's just a silly little guy. 😊

[@user-lq5yx1ke5k]

Konrad is also my fav primarch, for the very simple reason that in the end, he was right..

[@thesaxon3966]

What you described was pessimism, not fatalism. Fatalism is the belief that everything is predetermined. It can be good or bad, but ultimately you have no say in the world because the invisible hand will always decide the outcome. Are you going to die today? Up to fate. If you are fldestined to live, drive through Cleveland with a gold shirt and a Rolex. If you are destined to due, don't even bother with a panic room. In a sense, it can be good for stoic people. You act courageously because at the end the end of the day, you won't die a second before you're supposed to and won't live a second longer than determined. But Konrad is interesting because he uses it to justify how he acted. HE didn't kill those people horribly, it was FATE, not him, he didn't deserve the blame. The future was set in stone. If he killed the assassin, then he would have had to accept the possibility that he had the option to not kill those people.

[@ChosenTripster01]

my favorite primarch is Jaghatai Khan :p the scene where he saw one of his friends die and then single handedly washed over an ork waaaagh like a wave of death in a rage induced trance that allowed him to move at inhuman speeds even by astartes standards solidified him as the biggest bad ass in 40k in my opinion >.

[@robleesejones]

Night Lords are a poor man's Blood Angels. They both had a psychic Primarch who saw the future, but the Night Lords went full monster, while the sons of Sanguinius straddle the line between angel and monster every day and are far more interesting because of it.

[@gadzilla6664]

They both are different examples of "vampire marines". Night Lords are a representation of the original inspiration for Bram Stoker: Vlad Tepes and his Wallachians. Blood Angels are Twilight.

[@anthonycampos7417]

​@@gadzilla6664I couldn't have said it better myself

[@arsumbris6392]

Fatalism has a provisional context (not just an irrational-ontological one like your depressed friends); all life ends in death for example. There's no way that isn't fundamentally tragic, but all life revolves around the struggle to redeem ourselves from that inescapable tragedy. If fatalism drives the search for meaning (to redeem a fundamental tragedy), and redemption is the only hope, then hope is conjoined with fatalism. And vice-versa. Like Pandora's box.

[@TheXenomorphwarrior]

Minotaurs, Minotaurs, and of course Minotaurs

[@ichabodyavorsky4262]

I'm not the biggest fan of Curze but I do appreciate his story for showing that warning of those awful fatalistic depressing thought. I used to be a similar way, I still am in a way, believing that something can always go wrong and is likely to without proper navigation, but I've managed to adapt the feeling into something more... productive, if not outright healthy. It's now a "Even if it has to be this way I'll be damned if it's gonna stop me" mentality, able to take no for an answer in the moment but refusing any stop or obstacle to be the end of it unless I decide it is. Even if actions are predetermined by something far beyond us all that matters here, in this reality, is that we are choosing, even if it is only perceived, and there is always the choice to do what you want, to be better, to hope, to dream. If fate were to make me something I would never want to be, something I would be repulsed by on my deathbed, I'll at least be fighting it all the way down.

[@scharazz]

Not a single normal Nightlords-Fan? I am sorry, but me and my other personas want a word with you...at least if they would stop humming the tetris melodie.

[@chester2581]

He was the only engineer of his own downfall.