In Defense of Marinette…

[@kainightshade5033]

Marinette defenders, rise! Our girl TCH is about to lay this to rest once and for all. These antis better leave my girl alone!!

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

LET’S GOOOOO🥰🥰🥰

[@kainightshade5033]

@@hkg7475 I know Haze. We've talked about it before. Me and her kinda disagree about Chloe's *ahem* "redemption" if that's what you're referring to. It is my personal belief she never was getting a redemption and that Chloe stans just hyped themselves up for something we were told from day 1 wasn't in the works.

[@sindisibanyoni2111]

Marinette defender here✊✊

[@kainightshade5033]

@@hkg7475 Ahhhh! Okay, I misunderstood you, sorry! Yeah...I'm good with Haze but her audience tends to be...we'll say shallow minded. I'll check it out later and add my thoughts.

[@Howaboutyes11]

💀

[@shootingstarssel4182]

As someone who majored in Psychology and is in an MFT program to be a couples therapist, you are correct. Communication is essential in relationships because a relationship is like a garden. You have to take care of it; it's not something you're in and let things happen. No, both people are in to work on it, and you can't expect things to magically resolve themselves. The problems, no matter how big or small, will always be there until both people in the relationship work through them rather than rather them. This is something I love about Adrien and Marinette's relationship. They're mature and want to work through their problems so that they're both happy and none of them feel unappreciated. Also, I was bullied in school as well, especially by someone I thought was my friend; only for them to be back and forth with me was brutal; one of my trauma responses was closing off towards people and having trust issues, even when I made friends I was somewhat distant and had a hard time talking about myself in fear they would betray me or not actually be my friend. But I was lucky to find a great friend who truly cares about me and a good support system with my family and my school because when I did tell my mom what was happening, who then told the teacher, we were able to work things out in the end. And it was sad to see how Marinette couldn't trust anyone in school, especially the staff seeing how Chloe abuses her power in school and has everyone wrapped around her fringer, especially Damocles. Honestly, at least to me, he seemed to like punishing Marinette from the looks of it.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

I agrée with everything you said about Adrienette! Their relationship is just beautiful and many people can learn from me regardless of age. I’m so sorry you experienced bullying 🥺💗

[@shootingstarssel4182]

@@TheCartoonHotspot thank you and yeah it sucked getting bullied but karma got her back big time that made me happy 😊😊😂

[@Notfunny494]

Finnaly someone who actually supports Marinette instead of whinning over her past actions.

[@gameomer1855]

Marinette might have flaws but she's a good person

[@tealisbored]

Exactly

[@barbforeverlma0]

Exactly and that’s what people don’t get

[@tealisbored]

@@moved18287 exactly!

[@Mvshy3]

EXACTLY!! THATS HOW SHE BECAME A SUPERHERO

[@SweetSentiLight101]

People stilll hates her after derision like geez…😂

[@avocado3419]

Thank you for making this video! A lot of people hate Marinette and anti her, but people really don’t give her character a fair chance and HEAVILY misunderstand her. I’ve been saying this even before derision, but I would just get attacked.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

I’m sorry you’d get attacked 🥺

[@movielover609]

the English dub came out today I am glad we got an explanation on why; Marinette acts the way she does. in a way this episode explains why Marinette memorized Adrien's schedule why she made gifts for his next 35 birthdays why she did whatever she could except tell him how she feels about him. She was afraid of trauma she had with her crush on Kim would only repeat itself. I understand why some people hate Marinette, but I feel like this episode should have been a little refreshing to some the people who hate Marinette.

[@LegitMay]

In fact, all the characters in Miraculous Ladybug deserve better. I don’t condone to Marinette’s stalkerish behaviour, Chloe and Lila’s cruel nature, Cat Noir’s pushy behaviour, etc as it’s not okay or should be justified. But, characters like Chloe, Marinette, etc deserve character development, like maybe Marinette could learn that stalking Adrien is not okay and she tries to fix that by taking photos down off him, etc and Chloe could try to approve her attitude by having flashbacks of her past and see that her actions lead to consequences.

[@HunBun-ie2cx]

I agree, but the photos aren't in a stalkerish way, they're consenting photos or just posters.I'm not saying you're wrong, I just wanted to make sure you knew that.

[@Owell_Owl]

Marinette has develop having photos your crush isn't stalkerish behaviour like he's a famous model of course she's able all these photos

[@Gregg_Magic]

I think it takes emotionally mature people to realize that just because someone (Chloe) has redeeming qualities, that does not mean that person is going to put forth the effort to redeem themselves. Marinette has issues with her stalker behavior sure but Marinette is all together a good person. Chloe continues to actively be a cruel abuser. Even when she’s doing her own thing outside of school, she literally goes around the entire town and makes people suffer. Chloe fans are wearing severely rose tinted glasses.

[@dangerbuffrocky]

Hit the nail on the head. Chloe's Queen Bee arc shows that there is POTENTIAL for growth, but in order for that to happen, she has to want it. And she just wasn't ready for it at that stage in her life as she's trying to please a mother that doesn't care for her.

[@Gregg_Magic]

@@dangerbuffrocky And do I blame her mother? A TON. But Chloe still has responsibility to want to be a good person and she just doesn’t want it currently. Her mother abused her but Chloe needs to realize right vs wrong otherwise there’s no hope.

[@dangerbuffrocky]

@@Gregg_Magic 100%

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

I know it wasn't the most important part but I enjoyed seeing Ondine again and how is her relationship with Kim, it was really nice when he apologized to Marinete and Ondine was happy saying "that's the boy I fell in love with". Kim is a good person but his ignorance and different humor can get him into trouble, and Ondine can help and be there when he needs, and in return he shows his good side and gives her affection and attention.

[@swymaj02]

If man needs ppl to show him the way all the time, not thinking for himself, then hews a bit of a problematic character.

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

@@swymaj02 He doesn't need help all the time, he can improve with encouragement but no one is perfect and he can need support in any area, everyone can, having someone like Ondine is very good but not in the sense of making that person solve your problems and being your guide, but having her support.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

I agree with both of your points!💗

[@giannaangulo7006]

I like how Ondine didn’t get jealous that Marinette used to have a thing for Kim and truly cared about her feelings. She was brave enough defend Marinette and call out her own boyfriend to get him to understand how badly he messed up and apologize to her.

[@niana1975]

Kim needs to realize that Chloe is not the prettiest girl in the world and the funniest. And I’m glad Adrien put an end to the friendship he once had with Chloe.

[@Spottedstorm27]

Thank you! It's so hard seeing people acting like Mari's trauma isn't a reason for her to act as she does, and hate on the writers for her responses. We all respond to trauma differently! The episode did not tell us her actions are okay. It explains WHY she's that way and she's actively trying to work on her issues over time. She's realistic and I love her for it!

[@minaashdio9373]

I am glad that you didn't say this excuse Marinette's behavoir because alot of people think once you have trauma your behavior is excused no it not it explains it but DOES NOT EXCUSE IT

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

No it doesn’t excuse it but also I would go as far as say her obsessive behaviour is played off as a joke in the earlier seasons which is why I didn’t think it was that deep until I saw so many people hating her. It’s just exaggerated cartoon gags kinda like how Tom is constantly trying to kill Jerry (in Tom and Jerry) Same principle tbh. I think people overreact with *some* of Marinette’s actions given the context of its scenes

[@kainightshade5033]

@@TheCartoonHotspot ABSOLUTELY right TCH! It's unpopular but I'll say it anyway: Marinette is not a stalker. Sorry, but by TEXTBOOK definition even. Even if we take ALL her scenarios of "stalking" literally, it still doesn't equate to criminal charges. Let's take her breaking into Gabriel's home in Chat Blanc. If we take that scene literally, the crime is B&E (breaking and entering) which STILL isn't stalking. The photos of Adrien on the wall? Photos they all took together or clippings from magazines. Knowing his schedule for the next 3 years? She's class representative. She has ALL the student's schedules. Also notice how his schedule shows "Basketball, photoshoots, Fencing" AKA extracurricular activities? Not when he's at home playing video games, eating dinner, or scratching some pimple on his ass!! Sorry for the language but I'm trying to drive this point home because this "stalker excuse" is really getting old AND offensive! Especially with her full backstory in mind.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

@@kainightshade5033 this fandom has a horrible tendency to throw around BIG words they don’t understand. I’ve never thought marinette is a stalker and I never will think she is. Which is why I’ll forever defend her

[@tsurbwobniar20]

You guys should've seen Ben Tennyson from the Ben 10 Series he's made a lot of horrible mistakes worse than Marinette, especially as a kid during the original Ben 10 TV Series like in the episode in which he first met Kevin Levin. But fortunately, he regretted his mistakes while also learning from them and so would Marinette.

[@goddessqueen7730]

Nice breakdown, I can’t understand the people that still see Chloe as a good person, I love Mari's character development I think people hate on for no reason, and some of them just hate her because she doesn't like Chloe and she has every right not to.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

It’s frustrating because if Chloe was a real person… NOBODY would be defending her😭😹 I’m not really sure why it’s hard to understand how horrible she is. From a writing standpoint, you can find her character interesting but some of the things I’ve seen being said by her stans are so disturbing

[@goddessqueen7730]

@@TheCartoonHotspot it is, but I feel like they would defend her the way our generation is. I am pretty sure most people who like Chloe is probably just like her and is trying to find anyway to defend her actions. To me chloe has proven herself not to be a good person at all. When she had her little break down in season four I did feel sorry for her and was hoping she would change. But I like that they went this direction with Chloe because it's more believable not everyone can continue to have Second chances. Chloe had multiple and still chooses to be the person she is.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Exactly! Is Chloe’s arc a bit messy? Absolutely! But do I agree with the decision to not redeem her? You bet! Too many cartoon mean girls and bullies get a redemption arc- I like what miraculous did by telling us that all people are capable of change but some people simply don’t want to change! And there’s nothing we can do about that.

[@goddessqueen7730]

@@TheCartoonHotspot right, people are so use to the bad character having a receptions arc, they don't never think that the isn't supposed to have one.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

@@redballoon9007 wait that’s actually a leak that not a lot of people are aware of so please be careful so not to accidentally spoil! But I agree with you btw, bad decision on the writers part

[@not.the.simp7]

I don't get it. The fandom doesn't want a Mary Sue but they get upset when a character has flaws? Idk man I love marinette

[@cemrecerenylmaz7958]

I actually think Marinette is not a Mary Sue

[@not.the.simp7]

@@cemrecerenylmaz7958 definitely not

[@AdaHazard]

I like Marinette but I like Chloe too - they are both equal victims of Astruc's weird often very cruel and downright sexist writing. Both Astruc's insistence on Marinette's perfection and his open hatred of his own character Chloe so prevalent in the show are things that are unfair, nonsensical, and make both the girls hated by the fandom but are neither of their faults because... Well, they're just not real people lol.

[@dangerbuffrocky]

@@AdaHazard he literally doesn't make Marinette perfect. A lot of the show's turning points and low points are due to her bad calls as a leader. And he doesn't hate Chloe either, and even said that the team did try to write a redemption arc, but long story short, it felt like they had to pull ideas out of their butts to make Chloe fully redeem herself, and even then, it wouldn't be realistic. Those reasons being is that her privilege literally gives her a reason not to care about her mistreatment of others and the fact that she doesn't address her trauma.

[@AdaHazard]

@@dangerbuffrocky You can make all the excuses for them you want, but whatever the case, Chloe's character was ruined, Marinette does not receive proportionate consequences for her actions. Whether they had to 'pull ideas out of their butts' or Astruc really loathes Chloe and can't see Marinette as anything more than his trophy, the outcome is the same. They're both given terrible characterization, and neither of it is the fault of the characters, who are both just teenage girls. Both of them should be well-rounded girls with well-structured stories to show their humanity, but unfortunately both are delegated to hero and villain without any nuance. If you disagree, that's fine, but I'm clearly not the only one who can see the truth of the failures of the show.

[@dangerbuffrocky]

@@AdaHazard idk, Chloe's still one of the most well-rounded bully characters I've seen (ironically). Although I think the execution was half-hearted, I still like the general concept and it definitely made sense from a character P.O.V. And I don't make excuses for the writers. I just give my opinion. If I think an arc is executed like crap (the alt ships in Season 4 and the fumble that was Luka's story), I will be very vocal about it. And I also disagree with Thomas's stance on Chloe not being a victim of abuse (which she is).

[@dangerbuffrocky]

@@AdaHazard and I don't get how Marinette and Chloe are shown as not human? Chloe has a fleshed out backstory that explains (and not excuses) her actions and even when she gets the chance to be a hero, she rejects it, because any person who grew up as privileged as her wouldn't really care about being a hero to save others. Seems well-rounded to me. And Marinette obviously has her bad actions when it comes to love, which leads her to making incompetent decisions that the narrative actively calls her out on, and those consequences are felt in the story. Now, whether you think Marinette is appropriately punished for those actions is another thing, but from the major story beats, she is. And she has to learn to outgrow those habits, which I do think should've been acknowledged or even outright stated. Not to mention her entire speech to Shadybug, which is a contender for one of my all-time favourite scenes in the show. That's humanity.

[@AdaHazard]

@@dangerbuffrocky To say "anyone like her would do something like this!" is already dehumanizing Chloe, and painting Marinette as a hero that you simply have faith the story will improve its depiction of doesn't mean the story is good. It's your own imagination. All that being said, if you're entitled to your own opinion. Again, I'm clearly not the only one who can see these major, major flaws. You don't have to be one of them, nobody is forcing you, you know?

[@niana1975]

Now that they are dating and hearing what Chloe had Kim do to Marinette the previous year, you can tell that with that anger across his face while Ondine is telling off Kim, that Adrien might have wished he started attending school the previous year so he could have been there for Marinette.

[@justafriend9859]

Fr☹️☹️☹️

[@Kaasbroodje4life]

Fr tho😪

[@mehwhatever9726]

If someone hates how a fictional character is written maybe they should direct their discontent on the writers instead, that they neglected character proper development, or explanation, went down the simplest trope with them. Most of modern media characters suffer from underdevelopment but they ain't exactly real to have control over what arcs they are getting or not. Chloe got very... Cucked in terms of her potential development, they probably gonna rush it at the last possible moment though.

[@lorenal9405]

A bit late to post but I am SO thankful about the "Audrey's abuse explains Chloe's behavior but doesn't justify it" party. For the few years I've followed the show, I was shocked at the amount of people on Reddit and KZbin who don't understand the difference between justifying someone's action/behavior and trying to explain it. It sometimes feels like I'm the only one in Europe who was taught that, in intend to solve a problem, you have to understand it first. And Chloe is a problematic person. You can't imagine how relieved that single sentence in your video made me feel. Again, thank you. A lot.

[@liaheben]

You have to understand that it all came from Astruc that said that Chloe wasn't an abused child. That made a lot of people really angry, bc Audrey' is a horrible mom and Andre is a neglectful father that punished his daughter making her leave with his abusive wife.

[@lorenal9405]

@@liaheben I am aware of that and I understand the anger, I felt the same. But among the fandom there's a fair amount of people who usually defend their fav characters by bashing others for their flaws while denying/ignoring their fav's when addressed and, again, don't know or refuse to know the difference between justifying and explaining. Astruc is partly responsible of that but he's not the only one to blame for the fandom negativity/toxicity. I still don't have a definitive answer regarding the death threats thing... I wonder if Hawkmoth doesn't have agents inside the fanbase...

[@liaheben]

@@lorenal9405 people fighting over characters is a problem in almost any fanbase. It's so childish sometimes, and another times you're right gets really toxic. The biggest problems here come from Astruc childish feedback, and the feeling that MLB could be a much better show.

[@lorenal9405]

@@liaheben That's why I created an AO3 account ^^ And I won't deny Astruc is no better than the toxic part of the fandom. The guy should have distanced himself from social media some time ago...

[@liaheben]

@@lorenal9405 the problem is that Astruc try to prove he is right about everything . He created episodes like Derision or gave to André a redemption Arc with a new perfect daughter after all he did as a Major and a father, bc Chloe was his responsibility. The show stated several times that she learned how to play dirty (like in Darkblade) from him. And they kept her saying she"s rich.. And at the same time the grieving process of Adrien after losing her mother and later her father, or Kagami's mother treatment of her daughter or Felix being abused during all his life by his father... But they're rich. The show doesn't know how to deal with child/teenager trauma. Rose is hyper happy even if she's still sick and the issue is never touch again or the abandoning issues from Juleka and Luka.. Or the mother of Mylenne that's just mentioned..

[@kiyomi_kamimoto]

I like the fact we're finally getting a good reason to Mari's behavior, but my only rant to this episode really, is that I need to say the word "finally". FINALLY. After 5 seasons, 7 years ? They could have definitely showed us that earlier, or at least, if the whole thing couldn't have been shown entirely, maybe at least some hints throughout the show, like Kim talking about a "really cool prank" he did during the previous year, or even showing Socqueline, I don't know, at least 2 seasons earlier 😭 Because it just feels as if they just thought about it during s5's writing and decided to put it there. And I really hate how I feel that way, because I would have loved it more if I had seen that earlier.

[@virnalassiter382]

Yeah and Zoe would have hints in the new York special

[@bloomeraklyon5842]

I am so glad to find a channel that doesn't hate the main character for no reason! 💖💖💖

[@pinkysunset9240]

I honestly think the same about this episode, I love this episode and I love how they finally explained Marinette's obsessive behavior, and yeah it's true it would have been better if they showed it earlier but not only for the explanation of Marinette's trauma and behavior but also for the importance of Socqueline in her life. I honestly loved Socqueline the first time I saw and since she said "I was worried about leaving you with that monster" I know something was up. Socqueline was really important for Marinette that she started wearing pigtails in her honor after she graduated probably for having her confidence and I bet she imitates her taekwondo moves when she's Ladybug. Also the last thing Marinette remembered before breaking the Akuma were Socqueline's words. So Socqueline was a really important person in her life and her first best friend and I really wish they showed her earlier

[@Feiriiz]

I can NOT STAND when people hate on her, like they forget ALL she’s going through, she’s just a kid 😭

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

I’ve mentioned it before in “unpopular opinions about miraculous” video but a lot of the fandom judge characters who are clearly teenagers. Especially the adults who forget they once were teenagers. Disliking marinette is one thing which people are entitled to, but acting like she should know how to act when she is a TEENAGER is just bizarre

[@u-saw-nothing-i-was-never-here]

okay long rant incoming: I haven't watched the video yet but after scrolling through these comments I'm starting to think that there's no hope for Marinette antis 💀 I've never liked Chloe that much so personally I don't really care about what the writers do with her arc; I do get why the redeemed bully trope can be appealing but also I find it baffling how some people have more sympathy for Chloe - who has done a lot of horrible things and shown no remorse - than Marinette who has been through a lot of traumatic shit and generally tries to see the good in people!! also I think some Marinette antis have no clue what a Mary Sue actually is; a Mary Sue is a character who has no flaws and is seemingly perfect in every way but guess what?? Marinette has flaws!! as a protagonist should!! istg people will just use "Mary Sue" as a stand-in for "female character I dislike". and people who say that she never has to deal with consequences have either a) not actually watched the show or b) done a terrible job of paying attention because Marinette DOES deal with the consequences of her actions multiple times!! and people will call her a stalker even though it's just exaggerated cartoonish antics which other shows have already done in the past 😭 a lot of the things people say about Marinette are just straight up misogyny and ableism and I will die on that hill. tldr Marinette is best girl and I'm tired of people who have really bad takes hating on her, I'm glad that you made this video 💖

[@denizkaragullu6239]

I love Marinette too but she WAS a stalker. She broke into his house. She SMELLED his pillow ffs. It was creepy as hell. I think the writers went too far with the "exaggerated cartoonish antics" sometimes. But she is not a real person so I don't understand completely dismissing her character just because the writers went too far with comedic stuff at times. I guess people think by liking Marinette's character, they would enable stalker behaviour irl. That's why they go so extreme when it comes to hating her. Also, some awful videos made by the youtuber whose name I forgot created an echo chamber. I can't remember his name but he kept using metal song clips in this videos. His videos of hating Marinette got pretty viral and it was the root of a lot of people's Marinette hate

[@denizkaragullu6239]

"Cyrus the great" was his name

[@us3rk1t30]

​@@denizkaragullu6239 Cyrus the "great" is a walking red flag 😭😭😭

[@denizkaragullu6239]

@@us3rk1t30 Ikr.. He gets too worked up over a cartoon teenager lol

[@akiraanime6014]

I understand how Marinette is the way she is after I watch the Derision episode her backstory was sad Chloe and Sabrina kept making her life miserable also teachers didn't do nothing about the bullying but blame Marinette also Chloe never gets punished for the bullying cuz she always plays the daddy card when Chloe,Sabrina,and Kim pulled that awful prank on Marinette she could of have injured herself like that is not even funny,Chloe was about to post her falling but Soqueline kicked her phone off and crash it since she is there for Marinette,then Chloe had the nerves to get Soqueline suspended even tho it wasn't on school grounds but the principal got too scared of Chloe.Marinette almost got akumatized again while having that flashback.She was traumatized by Chloe.She is still having a hard time confessing his feelings to Adrien the poor girl is scared,Kim's gf and Adrien didn't like how Kim hurted her feelings he still think it was funny but they got so mad at him as they should.I also glad that Adrian found out and end his friendship with Chloe at the end of the episode.I'm already sick of most people blaming victim Marinette.I even heard majority of people relates to her.The point of this episode is to why Marinette is traumatized and to spread awareness about bullying cuz stuff like that can happen in real life.I also see Chloe as an abuser and gets majority of people akumatized.That derision made me feel so sad for her.Chloe stans just want to defend a rac!sts toxic manipulated abuser in my opinion.

[@nikisha1791]

I totally agree with everything you said.

[@millicentgordon5427]

marinettes stalking is not justified but it's understandable, you mentioned this for a second in the video too so ill explain,there is a thing we all have called the subconscious mind,it controls 95% of what we do,your subconscious mind is what allows you to walk and breathe without thinking about it,the subconscious mind can be influenced by emotion and thus traumatic experiences, so here in a moment of intense emotion she made a declaration to not like someone unless she knows everything about them which caused her subconscious mind to make her act that way.

[@jayfeather464]

You ate that as always! The part about Marinette striving to be perfect and over prepared due to trauma resonates so much cuz I know EYE do that both with regular life stuff and love stuff. Havent even started getting to the root of it yet tbh but im glad the shows given Mari to space to start her healing!

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

🩵🩵🩵

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

I liked the episode but it gives me a bitter feeling especially when people talk about it, i'm so mad that this story hasn't been introduced and developed before, it feels like they're throwing it all in my face especially with the amount of stuff they're cramming into this season since it's going to be "the end of an arc", these things would have been better if they had been developed over the other seasons and I remember that every time someone talks about Derision, it makes me feel bad...

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Funny you mention that because I talk about it towards the end of the video! 🤍

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

@@TheCartoonHotspot really? Glad it wasn't just me, the plot holes were also notable.

[@autisticgirlawareness7420]

I enjoy and like Marinette a lot because she reminds me of me I think she has some special needs like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder like me and Attention Deficit Disorder like me I also think she has PTSD I don’t have that Disorder but I think she does . This show proves you can still be brave and overcome your disorders and I also admit the show that Marinette’s superhero side helps her conquer a lot of her disorders it helps her fight them same with Adrian.

[@caitlinsparkle7717]

I agree with all of your points CartoonHotspot. I agree with every word you came out with. To admit it, I think people are being too hard on Marinette just because they criticise her character development and that. And calling her a 'Mary Sue' is so way out of order and out of line. I remember Haze Clark explains what Mary Sue really meant in her version of "Defence of Marinette". So yeah, I agree with every word you and Haze said because I know Marinette deep down, that she is an amazing person, she is very vulnerable at times, she cares for others before herself and she is an beautiful person too. I know there are lot of haters out there, but I still think they are being too hard on Marinette. Marinette is not a stalker or mary sue or a creep. She is just a teenager kid who just wants to be careful from not going to conclusions with love and that with Adrien. If you think about it, Alya and Nino agreed in the season 1 episode Animan to take things slowly by getting to know each other and become friends with each other too. That's what Adrien and Marinette are doing right now, since the beginning of the series or the start of season 4 to 5.

[@kainightshade5033]

THANK YOU!! We really need to get that "Stalker" shit cleared once and for all because it's ridiculous. Anyone calling Marinette a "Mary Sue" at this point just doesn't know the meaning of the word. She's a traumatized teenage girl who's bearing responsibilities NO CHILD should have to! Mary Sue where?!! She's not just putting on a tragic backstory, SHE HAS a tragic backstory! One that all of us can relate to on some level. Bullying is, unfortunately, very common. When you take into account how this "prank" could've seriously harmed or KILLED her and fans are still victim blaming?! How the school faculty did nothing and even participated in said bullying?! How her parents don't take it seriously? The best they've got is "She can't possibly be in your class next year"...are you joking? So on the off-chance your daughter's tormentor isn't in her class next year, you'll just...allow her to be bullied? I lost a lot of respect for Sabine after this. Your daughter is so stressed that it's manifesting physically and you just brush it under the rug! This episode really brought out the worst in this fandom 😑 it has genuinely made me upset.

[@caitlinsparkle7717]

@@kainightshade5033 Thank you for agreeing. I just think these haters need to start looking up the word like "mary sue" before jumping concluisions. Please. 🙄Do they have anything better to do? Rather than being haters all the time? I feel sorry for Marinette, not Chloe. Chloe is getting worst and worst and I don't have any sympathy for her anymore. Bad luck Chloe. You just as worse a Lila. They deserve justice and bared in jailed for 100 years.

[@kainightshade5033]

@@caitlinsparkle7717 Absolutely! And if you're on the front lines of defending our girl, count me subbed!

[@caitlinsparkle7717]

@@kainightshade5033 Thanks! 😇

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Just subscribed!💕

[@KashishK]

chloe is not just a bully she's a freaking abuser. I seriously don't understand how chloe stans STILL stan chloe after this ep. and still call marinette "maricrap." There are def. lots of loop holes but trauma is still trauma, and for Chloe... her mom leaving her should still not define her actions. Mylene pointed it out too, since her mom left her too.

[@ItsGachaLilie]

Ikr. I hate when people hate on Marinette. She has gone through SO MUCH! Imagine you are Marinette and Chloe is bullying you like crazy for 4 FREAKIN' YEARS! EVEN THE TEACHERS CANT HELP MARINETTE! I USED TO THINK CHLOE WAS A OK CHARACTER BUT NOW, WE CAN LEARN SHE IS SO BAD AND A STUPID ABUSER! Also almost a murderer! Marinette fell from a high place! The WAY MARINETTE FELL! CHLOE WAS TRYING TO KILL MARINETTE!! I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY THERE ARE CHLOE STANS! Sorry for my rant lol

[@merlielangitan9135]

@@ItsGachaLilie We still stan chloe and maricrap is still a bich... you guys should always blame the bad writing instead of antagonizing US!!!

[@HaroldMadera]

Agreed I see this on behalf of all good miraculous fans That’s don’t call me can do to Marinette could’ve killed her And everything so we don’t have to now he’s only been to satisfy her interests not for the greater good or for the people of Paris Season 1 antibug because ladybug didn’t listen to her She found the bee miraculous and caused a disaster to make herself look good endangering lives only to save them And was turned into a queen wasp and put pollen through pain twice And revealing her identity to everyone including Monarch She helped Steve her father and stop monarch on heroes day But she kept on calling ladybug for the miraculous but kept rejecting her because he knows who she is And ignored big advice Ladybug gave her an assisted Monarch once again and put pollen through pain as miracle queen And exposed the identities of the holders of ladybugs team to Monarch and try to steal the mother box Season four queen banana and penalty and season five soul destroyer she’s been a villain rather than a hero the only thing that stupid brat cares about is herself then she’ll get her karm Believe me when the day comes that she loses everything that’ll be a gift to all of us

[@JenTilly96]

​@@merlielangitan9135 This whole show has bad writing and bad character writing. Chloe herself has bad writing but yeah stand a racist.

[@tsurbwobniar20]

The episode “Derision” clarifies that Mylène also has a Missing Mom and has turned out nowhere near as bad as that brat, making it clear that Chloé’s awful behavior is her own choice, not due to a lack of a maternal figure.

[@EddyA-sw5ox]

Thank you for this analysis. I agree with alot of your points in regards to Marinette's development and how she coped with her trauma. But I do believe this episode should have been placed much earlier in the season to at least explain her obsessive behavior. With this being placed so far into the series, it just made Marinette come off as a "lol funny stalker girl" until we reached Season 5. Plus it feels really weird with how casually Mari interacts with Kim throughout the series despite the fact that he was instrumental in her trauma and never apologized until now.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

I do think derision should’ve been placed earlier in the series and I don’t find it weird how marinette casually interacts with Kim! I explained it a to another comment (so you may need to scroll a bit to find it)

[@CK-solutions]

Was it stalking though? In the same way she admired Jagged Stone as a musician, or Gabriel Agreste for his fashion. Marinette was constantly making plans to learn their next releases, and infiltrate their world to become part of it. She's a creative, drawn to creative people. To be an effective creative though, you become single minded. Alya gives us the perfect example in the episode, Mr Pigeon 72. Marinette is focusing on developing a cure for his numerous akumatisations, in her bedroom. Trixx begs Alyas to help reason with her, after she nearly blows up the room. Alya does so by asking, "when was the last time you worked on one of your own designs?" Her bestie recognised the need to shift her focus, to snap her out of obsessing over the cure. When that didn't succeed though, Alya tries shifting her focus to her other single-minded focus - Adrien. Specifically, his break up with Kagami. So Marinette races off to console her friend. Not Adrien, but Kagami. And guess what? She knew exactly where and when to find her friend - even brought a basket of goodies to bribe her mum with.

[@EddyA-sw5ox]

@@CK-solutions Personally, I saw it as stalking. While it's true that Mari is drawn to creative/inspirational artists for their work, her interest in Adrien felt more like wanting to make him her future boyfriend/husband. And apart from the scarf and feathered hat, she rarely made plans to actually advance his modeling career. From her figuring out his entire work/sleep schedule to having a collection of presents to give to him for specific situations in the following years (Glaciator 2). Many of which I doubt relate to his modeling career. And then there were her actions in Season 3 that I find questionable. (Onichan; wanting to break into his house because Lila was with him. Party Crasher; wanting to get inside his house to be with him during a party she wasn't invited to; Chat Blanc; her taking a moment to geek out while inside his bedroom. The Shanghai Special; traveling all the way to China just to be alone with him). So yeah, I think her actions do border on stalker level given how far she's willing to go just to be with him. Also, I'm sorry for playing this card, but would Marinette's actions be justified if she was a boy going after a girl?

[@CK-solutions]

@@EddyA-sw5ox You confused me with the expectation Marinette was supposed to advance Adrien's modelling career. She barely knew how to advance her own creative pursuits. If you were relating it to anything I said about creatives, then I missed your association. I won't go through all your examples, but the only reason Marinette crashed Adrien's party, was to find out where all the boys went, who bailed on planting trees with her girlfriends. Using that party as an example though, all his friends broke into his bedroom and fondled all his gear too. They fled the scene without being noticed, as well. What were they all doing in his room, besides having a good time? Admiring a millionaires house and trying it on for themselves. To answer your question about a boy doing it - didn't Nino stalk his girlfriend in Rocketear? Nate stalked Marinette in Evillustrator. Cat Noir/Adrien stalked Marinette's house in Elation? In the same way with Marinette, I wouldn't really call it stalking though. Because what was more consistent, is Nino needing to get to the bottom of things, Nate feeling shy and Adrien/Noir wanting to feel valued. These were their consistent behaviours, which drove them to do temporary things that looked like stalking. I accept that it looks like stalking, my original question was - is it really?

[@wendyboles5960]

I have to say as someone who took a long time to get close to my boyfriend of 10 years; I have abandonment issues, fear of being left to fend for myself and people misjudgment of my intentions. It is a scary world for me because of the terrible bully l had with each school year. This middle school bully was in my high school too! It got so bad that the school system sent me to another high school!

[@themiraculouspowercouple27]

Thank you for defending Marinette, this video was much needed. Thank you again 😊❤🥰💞😘🐞

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

My pleasure

[@MegiMoon]

I love protective Chat noir too and seeing him overwhelm Dark Humor so FAST was a treat. It makes us think how much Chat noir potentially holds back against akuma villains. It probably comes from his kindness and well sometimes not taking things too serious. Well it's possible that when Chat gets his mind to it then he is dangerous force against akuma villains and Monarch should be honestly scared of him XD Like for real cataclysm is probably instant key to victory by just targetting villains not objects but only thing holding Chat noir back is morality of how to use cataclysm correctly.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Exactly!!!

[@lilenwasnothere6867]

that makes me think. does monarch know that this situation is about marinette? because he knows cat noir is in love with her and he said in elation that he would definitely make use of that information, and cat noir nearly CATACLYSMING kim because he hurt marinette is definitely something monarch could use against cat noir.

[@NarinDeliah]

I rlly feel bad for my girl mari but I think the reasoning of her stalking was just added by the creator bc he saw how much hate Mari got bc of it.. plus Sabrina was both a victim and the perpetrator idk why people only blame Chloe(Ik she’s like the boss but Sabrina still laughed at marinette etc).. if I were Mari, I’d still be salty, I could never forgive someone like Chloe, Kim etc..

[@Lommany]

Psychological problems are more difficult to understand and forgetting the difficult moments of life is quite possible to exist in the world..

[@NarinDeliah]

@@Lommany yes Ik but from my memories, Sabrina didn’t even apologise properly. I hope there will be an episode where she does apologise, although I feel bad for Sabrina too :/ marinette is a good person so she’ll likely just forgive her. I was just saying that if I were Mari, I wouldn’t forgive or even forget it so easily.

[@venus4724]

Exactly! And why didn't marinette ever have any sort of aversion to Kim before this? It was written in abruptly. I would've actually had less problem with marinette's stalking behaviour if they just made her realise that it wasn't the best idea and grow out of it. Besides, can people not take a joke anymore? It's a recurring comedic gag that she obsesses over her crush, of COURSE that's gonna include some otherwise questionable content. No one ever says that chat noir is creepy for making romantic advances (though lighthearted) towards ladybug after she had made it clear that she wasn't interested. But they have a problem with marinette who hasn't even told Adrien yet? Who hasn't outright rejected her? I'm not blaming either of them, they're kids damn it. Let them make mistakes and look back on it and cringe and laugh instead of having everything be perfect.

[@NarinDeliah]

@@venus4724 exactly!!! They could’ve easily fixed the issue by painting it at a bad light and not something to normalize, let her learn and improve. The creator has made it much worse by trying to defend marinettes actions because how DARE people criticize his little angel. She can do no wrong apparently. I had to explain to my little sister why it’s wrong to do those things and I’m pretty sure other kids have copied similar behavior bc of it. I get that some things are obviously exaggerated for kids and sometimes kids do follow their crushes but it’s taken too far when she’s literally flying out the country for him and actively Sabotage her crush’s relationships just for her to not even confess (ik she gets better at this a little but that was still crazy to me) 😭 honestly, marinette still could’ve done these things with the difference of her facing the consequences of her actions but nooo

[@TOP_10_SHORTS324]

I always justified Marinette's Behavior because I can relate to her I sttuter while talking to people because of my childhood trauma..... Oh bad days 😢 #I_Support_Marinette

[@nikisha1791]

I have watched this episode twice and I find that I love it❤ 18:36 . I don't understand why people are hating so I on Marinette ,😮 She is the victim. From a person that has been bullied, I know how that feels. 😢 Some people need to see how it feels on the other side. I really enjoyed this episode especially the Cat Noir beat down on Kim and the telling off of Chloe at the end. 🎉 Adrien went all out for his lady love 😘.

[@marino1059]

It's beautiful to see more people defending this girl. She deserves so much appreciation, I'll never not praise her ❤

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

🩷🩷

[@goldbloom8587]

I honestly agreed. During Kim's cruel prank, Marinette could've seriously hurt herself and Chloe showed no remorse, causing to Adrien to end their friendship with Chloe. Even though I do not like the way Marinette acted towards her friends and Cat Noir, she feels remorseful of the she is been acting. I don't know why some Chloe fans supported her while denying the fact that she traumatized Marinette during Kim's prank. And because of Kim's prank on Marinette, she suffered humiliation trauma, but Chloe doesn't seem to care. I used to like Chloe once she became Queen Bee, however on Season 4 she acted way worse by causing problems on purpose. I'm glad Adrien ended his friendship with Chloe.

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

But this is due to Thomas's writing. Zoe Lee is created as a tool to make us hate Chloe Burgouise. The reason is that Chloe is based on a grade school bully that Thomas knew. It would have been better if they use Zoe Lee to develop Chloe's character furthur but thry do the exact opposite and Chloe to develop Zoe Lee, a mary sue character that came out of nowhere.

[@clarisacalderon9555]

the thing i don't get is adrien and chloe had already ended their friendship in a previous season so why bother doing it again especially while making kim look even worse even though he hasn't been into chloe for ages. like kim didnt even seem that remorseful even though he SHOULD be since he has grown a bit more since then and mari has gotten closer to the whole class...like him not realizing his prank was dangerious i could understand or maybe him needing it o be spelled out how he made her feel for him to realize what he did was that bad....but he strait up said how beautiful chloe is infront of his girlfriend and didn't really seem remorseful which feels very weird since he has been over chloe since darkcupid and has shown remorse for less bad things at times.. and more over while we all knew chloe was worse before origins....I think the trouble some people have with accepting this episode is because from all the episodes previous and mari's behavior around chloe...chloe never seemed THIS level of bad and it makes alot of previous episodes worse if chloe was THIS level of bad. like why have zoey wanting to check on her sister and not give up if chloe was this level of bad? why show chloe's nuance at points and hershowing some actual progress at points if she was this bad? even more why have her decided to not tell adrien about mari's crush on him when mari didnt want her to? why have mari learn there could be depth to people if chloe was this bad? like chloe is bad but making her THIS bad makes things confusng for the lessons of other episodes and makes it feel odd because there have been scenes in other episodes that could incorperate stuff from this trauma...but we are only hearing about it and seeing it THIS far into the show...so it can feel like a asspull...especially when we know that Thomas actively hates chloe and wants her to be irreddeemable. onone hand your right. chloe is horrible with this as canon and no one should defend her here with this behaviour...but some people are defensive because its like thomas is actively trying to make things worse and squash why everything thought there could be something to chloe. like when the show actively fucked over kagami and adrien to force their breakup by making both of them(especially adrien) look bad and act more countery to what had been established. honestly though i think chloeactively being worse in season 4 made sense if you notice the parallel to both adrien and marinette as mari ended up relying on her crush on adrirn to distract herself from her stress, the breakup with luk,loss of fu that she blamed herself for a and to make herself feel more normal(even when she brought alya in), adrien relied on his crush on ladybug to distract himself from his breakup with kagami and to distract himself from how he was feeling useless and to try not to focus on noticing he wasn't being used as much in battle since he can feel open infront of ladybug he cant show around others as adrien. chloe regressing to focus on hwhat she is used to(being mean) makes sense because she messed up. she feels she burned her bridge with ladybug who had believed in her. chloe has too much pride to admit the more understandable factors to why she gave in to hawkmoth. so focusing on being mean and petty would be her comfort becaiuse ts what she is used to when after she tried to change she messed up. like...chloe definitly was babysteps of progress before but people tend to forget she didnt just give in to hawkmoth because she was petty and sour about not getting the bee. chloe had accepted she wasn't going to get the bee anymore in a different episode already...but the issue was ladybug told her she couldnt have the bee for safty....but hawkmoth targetted chloe's parents and told that to her directly that t was due to him knowing chloe, him impying he might continue to target her family, she was isolated on a rooftop by the villian wjo cut off her way of communicating(the signal). and then dug into her insecurities about ladybug bringing someone else he knows. and then he came out with pollen who chloe had trusted ladybug would keep safe. if chloe had said no she would not know what hawkmoth(the griwn man terrorist) would do to chloe. he would have kept pollen and the implication he might keep targetting her anyway. and then hawkmoth led her to something familar(feeling ptty and shifting blame) to give her a illusion of control. its still on chloe for howshe responded afterwards but arguably chloe doubling down on being mean in the following seasons could be seen as chloe's coping mechanism..not a good one and we can still judge her for it...but it does have a parellel with mari and adrien with her acting even worse from how we saw her in the first season.....especially when chloe's routes of running away were cut off. and sorry won't fix what she did since hawkmoth found all the side heros. so its a mix of how much you think chloe was reemable in the first place and how much you can accept things as thomas not just sabotaging the character to make his vision work.

[@AREEBAHKHAN-cr9bi]

if I am gonna be honest , Marinette was a brilliant character ,sure she changed a lot but honestly lots of stuff as changed and she has been pressured. I think that people don't understand what hardships the characters go through and the amount of work for the writers to give this series a good storyline with elements of drama magic friendship romance and still keeping this a superhero series.

[@clarisacalderon9555]

@@moved18287 the hell? I might not like sme of his choices for the show but how do people justify real life harrassment over a kids cartoon? thats messed up.

[@redballoon9007]

I’m going to say on the behalf of Chloe fans that the MAJORTY of us agree that Chloe is NOT a good person. But we’re just very salty about how she was handled and before you say “she was never meant to to have an arc.” She isn’t handled good as a villain either. She doesn’t bring much to the table and she was never taken seriously as a villain to begin with. Her having a redemption was the best route they could chosen for her (imo) but since they were never going to do that with her, the LEAST they could have done with her was make her a decent villain. But based on how people feel about her now, that isn’t the case. Chloe is now in a state of limbo because the writers couldn’t give her a plausible villain arc but this all could have been fixed if they just went thorough with the redemption and left the “people choose not to change” thing with Lila. And the thing is, I wouldn’t be as mad with Chloe’s damnation arc if they didn’t try SO hard to cram so much Chloe salt in a single season and I’m having trouble trusting if half of the salt was planned out or thought of right out the bat. That’s how ridiculous the choices they made for Chloe are. Why would Marinette EVER let Chloe wield a something as powerful as a miraculous when she’s tried to murder her in the past? It doesn’t make sense. And it doesn’t help the writers decided to have her be stuck with the SAME person that was the catalyst to her becoming so horrid and framing it at some kind of justice. It also doesn’t help that Astruc denied Chloe was abused in the first place and as far as I’m concerned, he hasn’t retracted that sentiment yet. So no, we aren’t tying to justify or defend Chloe for her actions. We’re constantly defending the sentiment that Chloe had so much potential than she has now both as a villain and a hero.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

No no don’t get me wrong I completely agree with you! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts🩵. Personal disdain for Chloe aside, her arc or rather lack thereof was VERY messy. It does seem like the writers did a 360. Don’t get me wrong, I’m very much team damnation but I can see why a lot of people are annoyed with the fact the writers didn’t go ahead with a redemption. You’re right, she was never taken seriously as a villain. And her in season 4 and 5 are just as irritating because she’s just… there to annoy the audience. She doesn’t contribute anything at all. I wish she was just written out of the show. But that doesn’t change my opinion, however. Chloe is still very unlikeable and her actions shouldn’t be excused or justified, bad writing or not.

[@redballoon9007]

@@TheCartoonHotspot I may not agree with you being on team damnation (I’d argue a redemption arc would fix the problem of her being unlikable) but I thank you for at least hearing me out!

[@amymoon1295]

Someone finally said this💀

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

The only reason why I’m team damnation is not because I dislike Chloe but because I think it’s something fresh. A lot of mean girls have a redemption so I thought it’d be nice for Miraculous to do something different. It wasn’t handled well at all but hey I’ll take whatever I can get LMAOOO. But I agree that that would’ve worked better for Lila since her arc is headed down a clear path. And you’re welcome! Always a pleasure hearing different thoughts even if we don’t agree

[@redballoon9007]

@@TheCartoonHotspot I guess that’s understandable. But it’s different with me for Chloe cus I know that the only way she’s going to get away from her clearly toxic environment is by having a redemption arc. So for her to not get one and stay in that toxic and abusive environment doesn’t sit with me right. It’s less about a mean character not being mean anymore. It’s more about giving hope to people who might be in a similar situation like Chloe.

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

I was genuinely scared when Cat Noir tries to cataclysm Dark Humor and says he deserves it, I don't even want to imagine what would happen if this wasn't branded as a children's show, it would have been awful for both of them, I'm sure Adrien's anger would have turned to horror as soon as Dark Humor collapsed to the ground, and the Luckycharm hadn't even been activated, what if some effect lingered on Kim or if he could end up remembering this moment? And even if he didn't stay like that Adrien would remember everything and that would be another burden to carry, and since Kim is his classmate he would have to see him every day and possibly remember what happened every time he saw him, and it would be even worse if Kim was left with any sequel or memory of what happened because Adrien would have to see him without being able to do anything to help.

[@definecoco27]

Bullying is wrong! chole is a monster! I never cared for chole Those are people you want to stay away from.

[@maij9557]

Wow. Just wow.

[@kristiannanye2750]

Great analysis!!! Trauma hurts, but to see it addressed tastefully is incredible.

[@Lommany]

Well-developed characters add depth and sophistication to the series, it's nice to watch)

[@lowkeyykiraa]

bro i never made the connection as to why she pushes away her very obvious feelings for cat noir so much 😭 that’s so sad

[@nikisha1791]

The writers really need you for this show, you really know how to analyze this show 🤔. Your theories on this show if used would make this show so much better.

[@anamarsel9615]

I agree!

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Thank you so much! That means a lot to me 🥺🩷

[@nikisha1791]

Your welcome ☺️

[@kainightshade5033]

This is such a beautiful defense analysis! I appreciate the way you went into each character's trauma and how that plays into the overall story. Although Chloe is an abuser, her story is still very much important and must be treated as such. Marinette and Adrien have gone through so much in their young lives (at the hands of other teens and the adults that were supposed to protect them) and this relationship serves as a kind of healing for both of them! This is a common troupe but you know how Adrien describes his mother? Always made him laugh, beautiful, creative, courageous, put others before herself?? Sound familiar? Thought so! Marinette reminds him of his mother 😂 For Marinette, she's never had someone who always believed in her. Unfortunately, not even her parents. But you know the person who's ALWAYS stood for her even when everyone was against her? Adrien. He's been the one person there for her, steady as a rock. Their communication and commitment to each other is something most ADULTS in this world can benefit from!

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Thank you and I’m glad you enjoyed the video! I may not like Chloe but I’m still willing to analyze her character and sort of appreciate it! I love Adrienette’s relationship so much Argh I could talk about it all day. A lot of people can learn from them tbh!💗

[@dinosaur7775]

When I saw derision it broke me about the fact about how much she really suffered and I feel her on this one on certain parts 💔

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

🥺💗

[@iLikeBunnies76]

I don’t get why people excuse Chloe’s actions because her mom ignored her, Zoe gets ignored by her mom to and she’s a literal sweetheart, i think I saw somewhere that said Mylene was abandoned by her mother to (i might be wrong) but she’s also a good person so what’s the point of using Chloe’s mom as a reason for Chloe’s bullying.

[@jackfeeney5835]

If anything andre is more to blame he never tryed to stop chloe he just enabled her to be horrible

[@lowkeyykiraa]

yeah mylene said in the same episode that she’s analyzing that her mom left too and she doesn’t bully marinette

[@LegitMay]

Exactly, Zoe and Mylene may not have good mothers, but yet we don’t see them bullying others and Chloe’s spoiled behaviour and cruel nature came from having such bad parents, one who ignores her and belittles her and the other enabling her behaviour, not punishing her for the misdeeds she’s done to people, etc. Chloe needs to at least face consequences for what she did and therapy for her bad home life, and not only therapy for her, but therapy for Zoe as well.

[@iovelusion]

That’s the thing Chloe wants to be her mom she wants her mom to be love her so she copies her Zoe is a boring fucking character she’s ugly and trash

[@iovelusion]

@@LegitMay lmfao girl pls.. 💀💀 they had mylyne say that just for u guys to say this point good bye.

[@RJ_Volt]

I'm so glad KZbin gave me this video into recommendations, I loved this analysis so much!!

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Thank you! I’m glad you loved it🩷

[@leahowlett5525]

Socqueline wasn’t expelled, she was suspended for the remainder of the year.

[@giselamaciasleon6844]

Yea but that was her last year in that school, she was a senior

[@SweetSentiLight101]

Poor girl….only to defend Mari but it’s all mainly because of Chloe. And also I would also defend my bff and I wouldn’t mind getting expelled or something just to save my bestie. I would sacrifice my life for them to be happy ❤.

[@PiaChan-ru1ol]

This is why Chloe's redemption arc didn't go anywhere. She has the capability of being nice, to impress Adrien or something, but it's never because she actually has good intentions.

[@virnalassiter382]

Yeah I don't think she was really a fangirl of ladybug or becoming good it was just to manipulate ladybug into making her a superhero no wonder she was so whiny of not getting picked when it's HER parents that need to be recused

[@merlielangitan9135]

NO, the reason why her redemption arc didn' go anywhere bc of this bullshit writing courtesy of Thomas ASStruck

[@JenTilly96]

​@@merlielangitan9135 Or that he didn't want a redemption arc for her in the first place. And when he didn't give you all what you want you all attacked him causing him to double down.? Not siding with Astruc because he's an asshole but God the hypocrisy.

[@minaashdio9373]

4:46 THANK YOU IT WASN'T JUST KIM'S PRANK IT WAS CHLOE AS WHILE like People like to blame him which like I can't blame them but it wasn't just Kim which played a part of this IT WAS ALSO CHLOE also I do agree this explains her creepy tendious THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE IT same as Chloe trauma with her mom leaving her it explains her actions but DOES NOT EXCUSE THEM

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Kim’s prank was the final nail in the coffin- what marinette was dealing with was YEARSS of abuse and relentless torment that all piled up to events of derision

[@Zakaria3400]

First of all Kim was being an Idiot . Second Marinette could have been hurt.

[@autisticgirlawareness7420]

Its so funny they talk to their crush when their trust is their alternate ego and they don’t even know it.

[@giannaangulo7006]

I feel so bad for Marinette. She’s been through so much and been traumatized even before she became Ladybug. I’m just relieved that Adrien is understanding and does his best to help her. I really love the part where Cat Noir Beats the hell out of Kim for what he did last year. I wish it would’ve gone on a little longer. I hope in a future episode, everyone, especially Alya, will find out what Chloe and Kim did and apologize to Marinette for ever making fun of her excessive planning around Adrien.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

I do hope they apologize to her too because some of them were also involved in her excessive plans… sometimes WITHOUT her permission

[@alexandruulesan7009]

Why and how, in the lowest of hells, does Chloe have stans !?!?

[@alankanjinga7378]

I have no idea,they are rooting for nothing at this point

[@AnInkStick]

@@alankanjinga7378 honestly considering how a lot of them blame Marinette and say that she deserves to be bullied, I think there are people like Chloe. bullies

[@virnalassiter382]

Yeah Thomas astrut made this episode as he's sick of people thinking that chole is better than marionette yeah maybe if chole was worse than she got introduced then maybe whoever dreactied chole to redeem herself would have never have tried to make her better oh well at least he's not demanding the world to hate chole and love marionette that would have made him an opinion basher he respects people hating marionette and liking chole but he sees people taking marionette's bad behavior way too out of hand and chole being praised like she's a gift from God and yeah marionette actually deserves better than chole even though her crimes are worse than chole because she always helps people and yeah the time she gets what she "dersevers" was before she did everything that made miraculous fans hate her chole is mean to her classmates she made marionette the way she is and yeah I agree with Nino that there's no way chole could be ladybug sense she's too selfish for anyone to choose her at least marionette did things to earn her superhero stadius

[@redballoon9007]

@@virnalassiter382 And so the solution is to force all of this Chloe salt so people will have no choice but to hate Chloe? If people realize that someone is trying to force them to feel one thing, they’re going to feel the opposite out for spite. I think that’s what’s happening with the audience Chloe. I accept what’s established as canon no matter what, but the feelings that Derision is a whole retcon still stands.

[@SonadowHaterSonamyloverforever]

​@@redballoon9007 I don't like Lila I don't like Chloe. Sabrina deserves better. And I'm glad they're having a Sabrina redemption

[@raquelgil4007]

I think this episode would make even more sense if the trauma that is presented here had an impact in past scenes of other seasons until now like the interaction between kim and marinette (in my opinion is not easy to have normal conversation with the person who hurt u in some traumatic way, for example in dark cupid-season 1 when kim was trying to confess his feelings to the girl he was in love with (chloe) and marinette cheered for him like her crush she had on kim didn't mean anything. But besides that it was a good episode and i always love your episodes analyzes even the details u point at.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Trauma can take many forms. Marinette tends to push things away and forget about it… I’d even go as far as call it dissociative amnesia but don’t quote me on that since I’d have to do a little more research. Although many people in the fandom *have* speculated that it *is* dissociative amnesia. Also marinette is a naturally very cheerful person so whilst the pain was still there (because she didn’t realise how badly it scarred her) she still cheered for Kim to ask Chloe out. And also whilst Marinette has been to the swimming pool multiple times, it wasn’t for a date which is why she didn’t panic. As soon as she went on a date with Adrien that ironically had to be at the swimming pool, her brain went into defense mode and she suddenly remembered all the trauma she forced herself to forget. Thank you btw! Im glad you loved the analysis video 💗💗

[@raquelgil4007]

@@TheCartoonHotspot Now i was searching about the topic and yeah it makes sense(and it has high changes that could be the situation here)but her having dissociative amnesia, never accured to me cause i always associate it with childhood.

[@2jeon]

i love your diction so much, the amount of times i’ve shed tears over your analyses because of how beautifully you word things 😭

[@viktoriaschweizer8724]

I feel so sorry for marinette 🥺 because of the bulling I was bullied myself in my old school and it was horribel ! Marinette reasons to know Exatly how Adrien Ticks is now much more unterstandabel but of course its still not a good thing to stalk someone so ... Great video! Love your channel!

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

I’m sorry you were bullied! You deserve better!🥺💗 and I’m glad you love my channel!!🤍🤍

[@viktoriaschweizer8724]

@@TheCartoonHotspot Thank you for your Kind words 🥺 it means a lot to me! Thank you very much ☺ ! And you are welcome!

[@caitlinkolick1203]

I have SO MUCH sympathy for Marinette- she endured YEARS of abuse by this horrible brat! And how she's so obsessed with making Adrien hers was because of the most cruelest and most stupid prank I've ever seen. (Even through Kim didn't know Chloe was doing it all for her own sick enjoyment.)

[@stardustcherry2158]

I don't get one thing from this episode. How Marinette could have liked Kim of all people. I was shocked at that reveal. Honestly girl you could do better. You deserve better.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

😂😂😂😂

[@nikisha1791]

You are so write about Kim and Marinette and Ondine both doing better than him. Did hear what he said about Chloe to Ondine his supposably girlfriend? If my boyfriend said something like that in front ofee me. I would tell him, "why you just be Chloe then if she is so Awesome!" He would my ex boyfriend at that very moment. For his disrespectful comment and actions.

[@nikisha1791]

Sorry for the grammar and some missing words and spelling, 😅 I need to proofread before sending notes.

[@stardustcherry2158]

@@nikisha1791 Don't worry about it, I am not bother about minor misspellings. And yes I agree. Ondine should have dumped him right there and then after what he said.

[@Mebro-m6d]

10:55 That's why Season 2-3 Chloe and Season 4-5 Chloe feel different. It's like they are not the same person. She try the change first and then seh give up?

[@jennianis1811]

Yeah, Cloe had begun a redemption arc in season 2 and then it just stopped. It is called character assassination. The writers converted her back to just a one-dimensional bully again and not a real developed character. Btw Thomas Astruc (the maker of miraculous) said he hates Cloe, even though he made her.

[@Mebro-m6d]

@@jennianis1811 I know. But I wish I didn't know. Then I can live with hope. And maybe love her villain version. This show need to be a case-study. How to not write a character.

[@resigningstars]

I feel like the writers rushed this and just made this up all of a sudden like why are we barely learning this?! Season 5 🙁

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

I can see why you’d say that. I think pacing is a problem in miraculous but story wise… marinette‘s backstory makes sense in my opinion 🙂

[@Mebro-m6d]

@@TheCartoonHotspot Well. Backstory explain her trust problem but I don't think it explain somethings. He is friend with Chloe. Then put a big red cross on him and move on with your life. But she keep loving him everytime. What did she expect from him? Also it doesn't explain schedule thing. Why does she know his schedule?

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

@@Mebro-m6d she knows his schedule because she’s class representative so she has everybody’s schedule!

[@Mebro-m6d]

@@TheCartoonHotspot I am not talking about his class schedule. I am talking about his personal schedule. She know that before she become class representative. Also I don't think class representatives know their classmates next ten year. Seriously how did she manage to know that? I bet even Adrien didn't know that. If I have half of the memory this girl have I can do anything.

[@michalelkin-bronner7958]

@@Mebro-m6d she probaly writes it down and his schedule is repative and easy to rember

[@matt0044]

I think this episode also speaks to how much it says about Marinette that she allowed Chloe a legit shot at being Queen Bee and let Kim stay as King Monkey. Though it also explains why it was Master Fu who gave out the Monkey Miraculous (under duress at least) rather than her.

[@karmaslyrics]

Oh yeah i used to get bullied a lot in school and to defend myself got me in trouble. So I'd be shy and quiet even more. In adulthood im still quiet but i speak up. And i dont let people hurt me.

[@anaraquelsilva7640]

Me too, at elementary I was victim of bullying of various people, they actually don't understand how different I am in other sections, because I have some problems of health and that's what it took my confidence and outgoingness.

[@Gabbythefoxcat]

I loved this so much you went into a lot of detail on each character explained everything really well rhis os the best commentary video about this ive ever seen great job

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Thank you so much! I’m glad you loved it 💕💕

[@YourAriene_]

Like the thing is Chloe has done many horrible things She has indirectly tried to kill marionette , I am a swimmer ( not professional ) I have tried backward swimming and I was almost about to drown Because of imbalance The way you dive / fall in the pool really matters Marionette fell backwards and she was unaware of the ridiculous prank And she could have died and Chloe just shamelessly keeps bullying marinette I feel like once Alya comes to know about this she will understand marinette from another angle Stop with the excuse she was ignored by her mother SHE DOESN’T EVEN CARE ABOUT HER FATHER WHO LOVES HER SELFLESSLY

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

THANK YOU! People are out here saying marinette should be in jail blah blah blah ok… what about Chloe??? Marinette could’ve ended up DYING because of her

[@YourAriene_]

@@TheCartoonHotspot ABSOLUTELY 💯 IF CHLOE’S ACTIONS CAN BE “JUSTIFIED” AND EXCUSED AND WHAT ABOUT MARINETTE ?? LIKE- WHY BRO-

[@merlielangitan9135]

spoiler.... when Chloe's parents divorced, the father didn't think twice about leaving chloe (his bio daughter anyway) and instead took Zoe (just a STEP daughter) so I don't think her father loves her truly

[@bryanawilliamson5772]

Marinette definitely didn’t deserve the hate she’s gotten from us… as fans I guess and chole. Derision explains everything about Marinette’s past and I’m glad that we got to understand that.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

I agree!💗

[@lifeof5498]

I'm gonna be honest, I stopped watching Miraculous ever since the Cat Blanc episode, so I didn't know about any of this, let alone the fact that Marinette and Adrien ACTUALLY started dating...don't know how or when THAT happened. So I may not be very entitled to my opinion here, but I'd still like to mention it anyways. The three main reason I stopped watching the show was due to the cringy, unrealistic moments between characters, the lack of character development, and the slow/non-existent plot arcs. Seasons 1-3 felt like repetitions of episodes that made no progression within the characters or plot, so by the Cat Blanc episode, I had officially lost my patience with the show. I also got pretty fed up with how cringing every episode was whenever it came to Marinette's crush on Adrien...so much to the point it gave me a headache... Obviously, with this video, as well as other things I've heard on the internet, I know that Seasons 4 and 5 are apparently a lot better and fix many of the problems they've had in the earlier seasons, but I personally haven't made any effort to try and catch up. As you mentioned, the show suffered from a massive problem with pacing and dragging things out, which caused me and many others to completely lose interest in the show. Any TV show should keep the audience interested enough to invest their time into watching, instead of making them feel it's a waste of time, so I heavily applaud everyone who still put their time and energy into this show. So for that reason, I believe they should've put this episode in one of the earlier seasons instead of giving us all those filler episodes. And in my opinion, I don't think they necessarily needed to put the Derision episode in Season 5 just because Adrien and Marinette are a couple. I feel that's something that could've been explained way earlier even without them being in a relationship. Another thing that I wanted to mention was Gabriel and Chloe's characters within the show. Now this is just my personal opinion, but I was pretty disappointed at the writers for how they were displaying these two characters. I'm not trying to justify their actions in any way, but there were definitely times when their actions were so extreme they made absolutely no sense to me. For instance, I understand Gabriel has the desire to bring back his wife, but there were times in the show when he put his goals ahead of Adriens well being. As if he simply didn't care about Adrien at all. Not sure if that's still the case or not in Season 5, but that never sat right with me. Then for Chloe, I was really disappointed that they reverted her back into her old, bratty, spoiled self instead of developing her character as they originally were in the earlier seasons. Again, not justifying Chloe for her actions, but seeing her slowly develop into a better person intrigued me a lot and I was looking forward to seeing how she'd progress...So when they introduced Zoe and gave HER the Bee miraculous instead, I was pretty upset. It felt like the writers were too lazy to develop Chloe's character, so they created a new one instead. There were also times characters in the show said that "Chloe will never change," which I personally don't think is a good message to portray. Yes, Chloe has done terrible things to Marinette and others all her life, but no matter how many mistakes one makes, it's never too late to do the right thing or change to be better (in my opinion). As cliche as that message may be, I believe it's an important one and would have a bigger impact on people if it was Chloe who demonstrated that lesson. That's why I personally can't bring myself to fully hate Gabriel or Chloe. Not because I actually like their characters or approve of their actions, but because of the potential their character development can have. So whenever they did or said anything wrong, I never felt mad at them, but at the creators for creating them that way when they have the potential to be so much more. I guess a part of me still wishes they get that development or redemption in some way instead of being the bad guys in every situation... but then again, this IS Thomas Astruc's story, so I suppose he has the right to tell the story and create the character's the way he wants to. But anyways, this video was very enlightening, and it's nice how they actually gave context as to why Marinette is the way she is. Still wished it was addressed earlier in the show and that Marinette took her time in dealing with her trauma instead of getting over it in one episode. I'm still a bit hesitant to rewatch the show due to the number of times I got frustrated with it, but I'll definitely think about it. Everything I said here is based on things I've watched and heard, so forgive me if I said anything wrong due to my lack of knowledge about Seasons 4 and 5. I'd also like to clarify again that these are just my personal experiences, thoughts and opinions about the show, and what I think would make it better...but that's it. I'm also super sorry for the long ramble. If anyone actually took the time to read all of this, then thanks so much! You truly are amazing and have way more patience than me.😅

[@pumpkinwarrior7138]

When it comes to Gabriel vs Chloe I never saw him as being able to be redeemed He knows he’s fighting children using other children to beat on them

[@Sarah-hu8tq]

i actually read the whole thing. But you have a lot more patience than you think. I Mean look how long you've made this comment XD ist almost an entire book.

[@snooker7107]

The only thing I hope for is that her trauma isn't a 1 time thing. If it actually affected her that much, it can't be dealt with in just one episode. Maybe we will have scenes in the future, in which Adrien helps Mari through her Anxiety.

[@Caddance]

I disagree with that. It wasn’t resolved in the episode at all actually. She simply realized WHAT the source of her trauma is. The ending is that she tries to hold Adrien’s hand but isn’t able to *because* that trauma *isn’t* resolved, and Adrien actually tells her that it’s ok, they can figure it out. It’s actually a really nice ending tbh and I say this as a victim of trauma myself. Edit: MY HAD I COMPLETELY MISREAD YOUR COMMENT I AM SO SORRY but I hope so too! Like I said I REALLY like how her trauma wasn’t suddenly cured within the episode

[@snooker7107]

@@Caddance Ah its ok. But so far my fear became true. We haven’t adressed it again. But we'll see

[@Caddance]

@@snooker7107 honestly, I don’t even mind it, because up until that point it WAS pretty good with her trauma, and it doesn’t take away from the episode itself IMO. Then again I’m saying this as someone who’s dropping MLB after S5 XD. (I’m only still ‘into’ it and rewatching the show because I want to make my own video because a lot of MLB videos suck IMO and everyone hates on Marinette WAY too much and think she’s the worst character when Adrien exists) (also if you want me to elaborate: Sorry, no, I’m getting out of the habit of typing essays in comments and trying to save that for my script, all I’ll say is what makes me consider Adrien the worst character is the fact he’s in a show geared towards little girls)

[@snooker7107]

Yeah, the Marinette hate is way too much. She is just like alot of characters, a victim of the mediocre writing. You can tell she is the writers favorite character and therefore is barely allowed to just be in the wrong. But I also would't say Adrien is the worst character. I mean we have Nino, Lila, Gabe, Master Fu and many more who were treated even more unfairly. I am curious for your Video essay tho.@@Caddance

[@iovelusion]

Girl trust me it’s just a one and done thing it was to only blame Chloe for her stalking..

[@PaigeRobins-ky4qc]

I love how this series shows how little things can mean to someone.💜🐞🐈‍⬛

[@random8163]

Oh I’m seated for this. I can’t wait for you to defend our girl 💕

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

💗💗

[@CeewewFrosty]

This episode is literally is what i can related too espically getting bullied Like i used to get bullied in so many type of ways too from some bully who never change their behavior at all and it took me 10 years to finally escape from them since they finally moved to other school.

[@sindisibanyoni2111]

I'm so sorry that happened to you😭😭😭😭how are you doing now? Are you better?

[@CeewewFrosty]

​​​​@@sindisibanyoni2111 dont worry im pretty much fine now ever since i escape from them in grade 10 and let just say my life feels so better tho when i'm in grade 10-12 And yeah in my life some bullies that use to hurt me in some way.. some of them actually changed their behavior for good and actually apolagized of how they treat me that bad with like (punch my arm for no reason, take my stuff like pencil and eraser that i used to study and hide it somewhere else where i cant find it, being forced to give my money to them at lunch, hurt my feelings with their words) And somewhere one of the bullies ever since i was around grade 4-5 somehow change and told me "if anyone hurt you, told me okay?" [Some how he suddenly wanted to protected me all of the sudden and i find that quite strange ] But yeah the bullies when i was around grade 1-6 they actually changed for the better But the one who's in the same class as me since grade 7-9 he's the worse one that i ever exprience tho and he's seriously different than those old bullies i faced before. (What he did to me basicly he forced me to find a way to let him see my answers in the exams too and if i dont do what he says he gonna pinch my legs real hard and also punch or either pinch my arm pretty hard and even forced me to do things for him too, since i'm someone who doesnt fight back.. he saw that as advantage tho)

[@CeewewFrosty]

​@@sindisibanyoni2111 it was tought 3 years tho.. but yeah in that time i also do find a friend who actually came to defend me too. (And after that me and him being friends for like 6 years straight)

[@sindisibanyoni2111]

@@CeewewFrosty I'm glad you found someone who could defend you and you both ended up being friends👏👏👏how's everything so far after that experience?

[@virnalassiter382]

Yes but while you and your defensive friend weren't in the same class did you at least try to see him after school and on the weekend unlike socline?

[@grvnge95]

Yeah the whole Chloe Stans using Chloe’s mom as a reason for how chloe treats people is annoying to me like you said I get that Chloe has trauma from that which is fine but what isn’t fine is using that as an excuse for her to be a terrible person to people adrien has a similar situation to her but he still knows how to treat people kindly I know people react/respond to trauma differently but Chloe yeah she is definitely not trying to change

[@jedyoung767]

Exactly. I need to be honest and I know I might start a debate or get in trouble for it, but if Chloé was a girl of color she wouldn’t have all these people defend her or excuse her behavior.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

It’s true.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Agreed!

[@breyerhorsestudios2964]

Plus, in contrast to Marinette, Chloe chooses not to try to improve on herself when giving the opportunity. Marinette goes through a strong development in seasons 4 and 5 and becomes a better person, but Chloe reverts to the worst version of herself. Marinette has also always managed to reverse her negative views of people, while Chloe continues to cause problems for Marinette and her friends over the course of the show. Then there's the fact that despite her flaws, Marinette actually cares about people...

[@jedyoung767]

@@breyerhorsestudios2964 Exactly.

[@optimusprime320-h9c]

It’s not a misread if there is simply a lack of character writhing to begin with

[@HunBun-ie2cx]

What do you mean?

[@liyahleroux]

This episode reminded a lot of bitter memories... Scared of go to place you should feel safe, lies, adults no cares - especially these ones who should protect you... I won't write about what 🖤Marinette🖤 deserves or not 'cause you described it prefect way - I wanna to write about Sabrina. If she wasn't a "spy" the "pool scene" probably won't happend. But I don't think she's bad person, but she's lost herself and be dominated by Chloe. I feel sorry for her and think Sabrina needs a theraphy too 'cause she acting very bad just for want to be accepted... (If you speak about it in your video, sorry - I didn't catched it) Chloe... since this ep. I treated her as annoying rich dummy girl, with too big ego. For now she's a true monster to me. She's tried to destroy somebody's life JUST. FOR. FUN. Her "mommy's complex" don't convince me - even if you experienced bad moments in your life, you have no right to turn somebody's life into nigthmare to feel better...

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Actually thank you for mentioning Sabrina because I didn’t even bother to talk about her but you’re correct! None of this wouldn’t have happened if Sabrina didn’t tell Chloe which is why I can’t stand her

[@liyahleroux]

@@TheCartoonHotspot 'kay, even if I'm sorry for her it doesn't mean I'm not mad at her for what she's doing, so I understand your pov. I wonder what happend between her and Chloe that they're started their... specific relationship.

[@coopigeon619]

I haven't watched Miraculous in a long time but still kinda have a passive interest in the show and people talking about it. It's great Marinette got some fleshing out and why she acted obsessed with Adrian... watching this made me feel bad for her. Stupid Chloe! Gods why did she have to be so mean? At least Marinette seems like she's working on herself. As someone in a similar position, I can respect that. :)

[@dangerbuffrocky]

I saw a video about Mabel from Gravity Falls and about how people mischaracterise her as a bad and selfish person, and I feel like a lot of the same arguments can be applied to Marinette as she is often mischaracterised as selfish and as a Mary Sue who doesn't receive consequences for her actions and is always framed by the narrative as being right despite her clearly being in the wrong, which anyone with media literacy will see, is just not the case. Marinette using her powers selfishly has led to: Her creating her worst enemy that will go ro the moon and back just to get revenge Caused the end of the world as well as gave her trauma that would stick by her and be one of the many reasons for her keeping Cat Noir in the dark in season 4 Getting her miraculous stolen due to her own incompetent decision Getting almost every miraculous from the mother box stolen And I could go on. And people who call her a stalker and a creep, here's some questions: When has she not faced consequences for her bad actions? Where is the same energy when critiquing Adrien? Have you seen Candace in Phineas and Ferb, where she does the same things as Marinette, which is clearly meant to be a comedic gag, especially since she gets nowhere with Adrien when she's being irrational?

[@muichirotokito5624]

and also like how is it possible that she has his schedule and shit memorized? unless its already online

[@dangerbuffrocky]

@@muichirotokito5624 and in Copycat, they said that she had his after school schedule, which makes sense for her to have since she is class rep.

[@muichirotokito5624]

@@dangerbuffrocky yep and how in mr pigeon 72, how she knew where he was

[@sailorstar3148]

I heard the same guy that made the original “ Mabel is terrible” video got out for being a groomer and no wonder why he acted like a 12-year-old girl should act like an adult because he’s into that.

[@celeste9949]

I'm honestly just really glad this was at least addressed because trust me I was on the Marinette hate band-wagon, if this was in season 2 or 3 it would've made me care and have sympathy for her a lot more than I do now. The pacing is just so terrible that moments that are meant to be dramatic and gut-wrenching aren't, it feels wish-washy when something significant happens in the plot, because you know in the next episode it will go back to being a rinse-and-repeat series. If this show could be remade I would 100% but that wouldn't really work because my mind would just be thinking of the original show.

[@lolcatz88]

I don’t understand why people keep wanting a Chloe redemption arc. She only wanted to be Queen bee because it made her feel powerful and important, not because she was suddenly becoming a good person. She says she has no friends, so she obviously disrespects Sabrina and treats her like utter trash, even though she’s lucky to have Sabrina at all. I’d be more interested in a storyline that explores why Sabrina has such low self esteem that she lets Chloe walk all over her. I was honestly so happy when she betrayed Lila and Chloe when they tampered with the class career choice papers… I hope Chloe never comes back from New York!

[@SweetSentiLight101]

Cause people are sick.🤢 *haters*

[@AnInkStick]

DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER

[@dangerbuffrocky]

EXACTLY

[@jamestolbert1856]

Actually she became Queen Bee so her mom would love her and show that she is exceptional. And she apologized for it afterwards, not hold deep resentment for it! Season two was my favorite time for Chloe!

[@dangerbuffrocky]

@@jamestolbert1856 and also because she loved the validation. Both of them play a role.

[@72Worker]

And Astruc considers Kim to be super hero material after what he did. I suppose Lila could very well give Chloe the self awareness she needs to change.

[@LegitMay]

Marinette seems very complex to me, she has both good and bad parts to her, like her being overly jealous and her stalkerish behaviour makes people think of her as a horrible person and that’s one of her disadvantages of a character and I have to agree and she also displays creepy behaviour when it comes to Adrien. Her good aspects are that she shows care towards her friends and there are moments she does genuinely cares for Adrien despite being obsessed over him.

[@jamestolbert1856]

It’s not about her being flawed, it’s that she never takes consideration into those flaws and faces repercussions for being a creep

[@AnInkStick]

@@jamestolbert1856 what are you talking about? There’s many many times that she faces repercussions, in fact, she pretty much faces repercussions every single time.

[@AnInkStick]

@@jamestolbert1856 I’m gonna be quoting from a Tumblr post of several examples of how it never works for her. “Does she end up being photographed with Adrien at the end of Stormy Weather? No. It was Manon who got picked. During Gamer, she enters the tournament for selfish reasons (both Alya and Tikki call her out on that). She does end up among the two players selected to represent the school out of her own talent, but she isn’t the one who suggested the training gaming session at her place. It was Adrien who initiated the idea and Marinette had a panic attack when she realized her room is overloaded with pictures of Adrien which she doesn’t want him to see. Does she end up at the video game tournament with Adrien? No. She wanted to leave her place to Max as she apologized to him. Only for Adrien to give her his place. So, she ends up representing the school with Max. Does Marinette manage to give Adrien a gift or love-confession card properly? No. She did manage to give him the St-Athanase gift in the alternate timeline, but it ended horribly and she - in the end - has to erased her name out of the gift and pretend it was from faraway fans. The only present she did successfully give him albeit indirectly was his xmas present. Does the plan set up during Gigantitan work out? No. Does Marinette end up taking the ride offered to her? No, she refuses it because she got scared of being alone with him. During Backwarder, first, Marinette’s friends are not that onboard and are not joining her this time. (and it was Juleka's idea to kidnap Kagami…. Which Marinette was appalled by the notion.) Marinette also ends up mixing the letters, resulting with Adrien giving her medication for intestine problems because he wanted to help his friend. Thoughtful, but not romantic. Is Marinette rewarded when she uses her superpower as Ladybug when Adrien is concerned? No. She can even get called out like during Volpina by Adrien - even if Adrien has to soften because he is not supposed to act so casually with her when he is a civilian. Is she taking pictures out of Adrien without him knowing or giving his consent? No. When the animation studio isn’t using screenshot as shortcuts, the pictures Marinette has are supposed to be pics taken out of magazines or from willing events (Reflekta). She is also avoiding Adrien after those get revealed on TV and Adrien is the one who goes to see her. Marinette of course lies about those and that lie is following her afterward (Puppeteer 2). And the number of pictures are never as extensive past Troublemaker either. “Yes, but Adrien does invite her to his photoshoot”, yes, because he considers Marinette his fan and friend and feels safe around her enough to invite her himself in the first place and he was not coerced to do so. In the Shanghai special - which, according to the writers, is set between S2 and S3 - Marinette doesn’t successfully encounter “randomly” Adrien in the city. In fact, her stuff gets stolen and she gets lost in the city trying to do so. If she had spent time with her uncle like she was supposed to, Adrien would have been the one to surprise her as he knew Wang Cheng’s restaurant and wanted to eat there. Also, even if they do share a meal, they are with several people, reiterating they are just friends and are actually celebrating Wang Cheng’s birthday. Also, as the seasons progresses though, Marinette’s behavior is improving. Adrien has become her friend and she treats him as such even if she is trying to balance her feelings in the equation (Stormy Weather 2). End of S3 and S4 is an improvement vs how Marinette was during S1 or S2 on that level. During Mr Pigeon 72, she made her way into a restricted area because she was trying to get Kagami back with Adrien. However, Marinette ignored what her friends wanted (Kagami didn’t approve of it), and projected her own feelings through Kagami in denial and because Marinette couldn’t have it. Her attempts did cause problems and ruin the session. And Adrien is the one who triggered the conversation at the end. Marinette does offer him an alternative which he refuses even though her suggestion was tempting and Marinette accepts Adrien’s decision and doesn’t push it and walks alone. During Psycomedian, while Marinette and Harry did set up together Adrien’s invitation to Harry’s show, Marinette’s attempt in humor did make Adrien uncomfortable and Marinette later apologized for that. The episode also shows us that Marinette (nor Nino) doesn’t know Adrien that well, because as established during both Félix and Lies, Adrien is a good liar trying to please others and his classmates are only acquainted with him. During Gabriel Agreste, while Marinette does sneak into the Agreste Mansion, it is not for Adrien, but to prevent Chloé from pulling Adrien out of school through his father. During Simpleman, Adrien is the one who asked Marinette to come help. She thought it was the occasion to invite Adrien the way she exhaustively planned but ended up failing. She does try to cause a sabotage to retry her invite, which she doesn’t go through with in the end and while she retries simply, still messes it up. All this to say, that yes, Marinette has problematic behaviors BUT! She is working out of those and is first trying to be a friend to Adrien, not his girlfriend. If she is pushing it without knowing nor considering Adrien’s own feelings, she is bound to fail. And the audience - children - are learning through her mistakes.” and that’s another thing! To the point of her “having no consequences “is also BS because there is a very clear consequence in that when it comes to Lila she’s never taken seriously because people think she’s just salty because she has a crush on Adrien. When she does have genuine concerns, she’s dismissed as a consequence for tendency to overblow things in her obsessive behavior. Case in point the season four finale. When Adrien admits that he doesn’t want to go on the trip and especially not with Lila, Marinette attempts to try to find a way for him not to have to go. But she is immediately blocked by everyone else who thinks that she’s doing it purely because Lila is involved. (although, let’s be real, that alone is a justified reason to be worried, considering Lila has had no problem sexually harassing, sexually assaulting, and is an actual stalker who tries to actively force her way into Adrien’s life, despite his objections..) Also! Her feelings for Adrien got in the way as well and resulted in her being taken advantage of by Felix who gave away the miraculouses…miraculi? I never know what plural to use. Let’s go with Miraculi, to Hawkmoth. Marinette blames herself for that and gives up on Adrien all together for this mistake. She only decides to try again when given the green light by Adrien HIMSELF and Tikki.

[@jamestolbert1856]

@@AnInkStick um no she doesn’t. Her friends never call out on her actions

[@jamestolbert1856]

I mean her attempts to get Adrien to notice her

[@GabeNwagbala]

Marinette cried in Kindergarten when Chloé made fun of her outfit and She got in trouble for insulting a women's outfit in kindergarten

[@KittMouri]

I completely agree across the board. Both Marinette and Chloe had triggers that caused them to react, but where Marinette became defensive, Chloe became offensive. Protecting yourself from pain and harm us okay and healthy. But, hurting others to protect yourself is just destructive and unfair. It's unfortunate, but it does not excuse their bad behavior. It makes them tragic, but also villainous. Think about it this way: people who are abused as children sometimes grow into adults that abuse children. Yes, their childhood was tragic, but turning around and abusing someone smaller than you to make up for the unfairness that was thrust upon you is NOT okay in ANY sense. It is often a psychological compensation that, from a psychiatric standpoint makes sense, it is not acceptable, just capable of being deciphered. Chloe is a tragic character, but still very much a bully and abusive. The circumstances that got her to this point is sad, but her mistreatment of others is not sympathetic. ☹

[@virnalassiter382]

Yeah when I heard that starting in season 2 the show would get more superheroes I was not happy that chole was going to be one of them because yeah she came as the "meanest" girl in the show and yeah even when she's funny I still don't look on to her as a supporting character and yeah i"m glad that Thomas astrut hates chole and isn't intersiersed in her being a superhero and yeah chole got expelled from the French miraculous superhero team the rest of him is a total grown man child and yeah Zoe donsen't even deserve hate people only hate her because she only came to replace queen bee and they think that she has no personality other than a nice chole and yeah the way she got introduced was well not good as she and marionette exchanged phone numbers when they just met AND was chosen as a superhero after her debut but yeah apart from dersvering to be a superhero more than chole does there are more things that I like about Zoe 1.I like how marionette met her first much better than how she met Adrian and Lila because yeah apart from exchanging numbers they met how they are supposed to they met as good friends and yeah bumping into each other totally makes me a zoenette shipper and yeah you think that she's a marry sue with no flaws well you're wrong if she were a marry sue she would have never tried to "fit in" the first place or get sad enough to get akumized same with marionette if SHE were a marry sue she would have never overreacted around illa and chole and yeah she wouldn't even mind cat flirting with her I think marionette from last year is a marry sue because she's allowing chole to bully her yeah another thing i'm a zoenette shipper both being called marry sues when their not trying to convince marionette that breaking into the agreste mansion is a bad idea while her other "friends" are so desperate for marionette and adrian to become a couple they just celebrate them becoming a "couple" when they "come out" "thanks" to Adrian Zoe is so worried about marionette that she decided to cut school grounds and see if she will need help when her mean sister was laughing at marionette falling off the chair she came and dragged her back to her sit and yeah adoration makes her an important character like replacing queen bee was not her only job she sacfried getting in trouble to get marionette out of it and yeah thanks to her from that episode on marionette is able to speak to Adrian normally and tell him she loves him with no heastision

[@wellidontknow1941]

So stalking/stealing/invading private property is okay and HEALTHY as long as there is this kind of reason for it💀

[@esayem7746]

@@wellidontknow1941 Rules for thee, not for me 💀. Always is the case with Marinette. And it's crazy because what the person is saying isn't objectively wrong, but what they leave out is that there is only ever room for nuance when it comes to Marinette, and no one else. Chloe is just supposed to respond to her own traumas all neat and tidy and deserves no sympathy(or decent writing for that matter) because she's actually Evil personified, not a 14 year old with neglectful parents. What has even been the point of HM when you have two evil little girls running around. Gotta love this show.

[@maellesaliou5871]

Your videos are always a pleasure to watch and listen too thank you 😭😭😭 I'm so glad you pointed out that Chloé IS an abuser, that bullying is indeed a form of abuse and agression and that it's time the Chloé stans acknowledge this fact !! And I love that you're giving Marinette the justice, respect and acknowlegment her character deserves against all this slander and bashing her character is unfairly subjected too 😥 Most of the time, the victims are always blamed instead of their tormentors and I always found that sick and disgusting to sugarcoat abusers and tear down those they abuse. To know that many would rather favor bully's and abuser's side and blame somoene like Marinette who is guenuinly a good person and was still able to give a chance to her tormentor really portrays how low many people thinks even when it's about a fiction. All this time we were focused on the fact that Adrien is a victim of parental, when all this time, Marinette has always been a victim of abuse too, from the the incessant torments of Chloé. But I love that you analyzed both Marinette's and Chloé trauma responses, as well as Adrien's own trauma response, which I didn't fully understand before. And then you explained what was the major difference between Marinette and Chloé, one chose to change for the best, to become better after she understood what the issue was, the other chose to not change, to remain a bad person, to even become worse, even when others were able to gave her a way to heal from her own trauma. But between Marinette's and Chloé's traumas responses, in my opinion Chloé's is the one who was the most harmfull to others, while the only one Marinette was hurting was herself, and that makes Chloé a lot less sympathetic in my eyes All bullies that watch this video or this comment, you should be ashamed of yourself if you likes to torment someone specific or even more than one person just for your sick pleasure. Firt of all, only the worst of the worst are happy when they hurt somoene who never did a thing to them, and second it's an act of cowardice and inner weakness because it's so much easier to attack someone who can't defend themselves, it's so much easier to be cause harm than to be a freaking decent human bing. And it's easier to be an asshole when you know you'll never be reprimanded for this. So all the teachers who side with the bullies instead of helping the victims, #**§ you too. A school is supposed to guarantee the physical and mental safety of its pupils, or at least try to, and if the establishment cannot even do that then it should not open its doors to students.

[@kainightshade5033]

First, this defense you've written is so eloquent within itself so it deserves its own shoutout so thank you for writing this! I understand that Chloe has trauma but simply put, Chloe's a bitch. Anyone who gets mad at me for saying that is more than welcomed to but I said what I said. She's a bitch. Can anyone tell me why MYLENE who experienced the same trauma can call out Chloe's behavior? Can anyone tell me why ZOE, her literal sister, who's experienced the same traumatic upbringing is able to call out Chloe's bullshit? Just because her actions can be explained, it doesn't make them excusable. Same with Marinette. No one is excusing her OBSESSIVE actions. It's important to say that because, MY GOD, she's NOT a stalker! The photos of Adrien? Photos from magazines or photos they all took together. His schedule? She has his AND everyone else's as class rep. Also, that "schedule" contains his photoshoots, basketball, fencing, basically all his extracurriculars. Not when he's at home playing video games, eating dinner, or scratching his butt. These UNlawyers should really invest some time into basic law. They should also learn about a little something called CARTOON GAG! Tom "kills" Jerry. But no one gets mad about that. There are cartoons where kids may "steal". Context is important here. I will say one thing that upsets me is how Marinette's trauma was used as cartoon gag. Personally, I find that disrespectful on the writers end. But that's still no license to discount her trauma and the obvious pain she's been through!

[@Mebro-m6d]

5:37 OH! True. I tottaly forget about that. How much do we see that Chloe and Adrien friendship effect Adrienette?

[@piku_kun1606]

tbh heres my option, the storyline doesn't make sense because she's been at the pool before and never had the reaction she was having in that episode. we even seen her talk to Kim and be kind of friends with him but never any panic attacks. we even seen her talk to Chole multiple times but she's never seen scared of Chole but hate her. if this was truly PDSD and theses were her reactions to it then why now? why not before? why is this only effecting her now. tbh I like Marinette but I'm not going to stand by the writers, and say oh yeah I can totally forgive Marinette for being a creepy stalker.

[@JeffUni]

Maybe it’s because she decided to be more dependent and believed there was good in anyone(except hawkmoth). Plus it probably just came up since Adrien was having feelings for her at that time and I think they were dating, idk. But at that time it reminded her of what happened because Kim and Marinette we’re on some date at that same pool. If they weren’t on a date pls correct me.

[@FrozenJedi38]

Except when has she ever been on a date to the pool in those instances? That's the thing that got her. The last time she had a date to the pool specifically was with Kim, so it's why her seemingly repressed memory of the day got brought up.

[@piku_kun1606]

@FrozenJedi I guess your right in that Aspect, but what about her being nice to Kim? Wouldn't being around Kim bring up those Terrifying memories? Or even Chole?

[@shhshfvzcmahdk6057]

@@piku_kun1606honestly, I totally agree with u. Like it just doesn’t make sense anymore. Her trauma should’ve been established in earlier seasons, right now is way too late. I said it once but I’ll say it again, marinette is a creepy stalker and she should really and I mean really face consequences for her obsessive behaviors (like ppl finding it out and telling Adrian). Consequences can really help her grow as a character but ugh guess Thomas doesn’t know how to do it…

[@itz.mee.khushi]

When she said at this point Marinatte is her worst enemy I remembered the Bailey Spinn's new song 'my worst enemy' 😅

[@Star_Starbee]

Personally I’m. It in either side. While I love the context this episode give us, it’s just weird that they have to explain it to us instead of making her a normal girl. Or at least less stalkerish. Like I’m okay with her needing to plan things out and stuff, but the presents for the 50 years? His schedule for the next year?? How tf does she have access to that? Like his school schedule and activities is normal ig but she could have just memorized it. Idk it just seems so out of pocket in the first place. I have more thoughts but I’m not sure how to say it.

[@HunBun-ie2cx]

I agree with a lot this video says, I don't hate Chloe but people need to realize that Chloe is responsible for just as much as Marinette when she does something wrong.

[@sailorstar3148]

And unlike Chloe Marinette is fixing her mistakes and helping the everyone else the best she can and putting everyone else’s needs before her own.

[@graceaureliadarlingxx]

Marinette is me basically

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Same 🥺

[@moonbeammiraculer3333]

If its not too much can you do a video on the possibility of cat noir/ Adrien's villain arc in upcoming season. I've seen a lot of hints regarding to it in the show as well as online discussion and wanted to hear your thoughts on it.❤❤❤

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Of course! I’ll make one when the season ends!🩵

[@moonbeammiraculer3333]

​@@TheCartoonHotspot❤

[@adorablechrysalis7386]

Chloe did have self awareness. And tried to better herself but Thomas Astruc to Detroy the character like you can see how forced it is.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Did she try to better herself because she wanted to change her ways or because being a superhero gave her clout?🤫

[@adorablechrysalis7386]

@@TheCartoonHotspot I mean she did try she gave the bee miraculous back and obviously thought she was useless and all those thoughts. Which you can see in season 2 well it’s true that she became hero then. And that’s her redemption arc but then thomas astruc comment something like she is irredeemable and idk then he corrupted her arc

[@topgame2645]

Oh God

[@iovelusion]

THANK U

[@iovelusion]

@@TheCartoonHotspotGIRL IK UR NOT THIS SLOW 😭😭 CLOUT ?? What clout does she need she’s the mayors daughter EVERYONE KNOWS HER.. u can debate me..

[@swymaj02]

The episode was good, but I would've preferred to crosscut between flashback and present. Dragged a bit for me. And we needed this sooner, the hate would be, what, 20%?

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Same I agree a crosscut would’ve been idea btw are you a film major???

[@swymaj02]

@@TheCartoonHotspot yh. Currently on holiday cos we don't do exams at Greenwich. Also 1st year.

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Nicee! I’m in second year :)

[@clarisacalderon9555]

honesly i like your view.....but to me honestly the episode rubbs me wrong on so many levels because it feels like it damages alot of teh previous episodes and doesn't completely match with what teh show has seen and treated tone wise. like on one hand I DO like seeing a episode showing how bad teh bullying could get. after all the show mostly shows chloe losing and depowered. people call her out or karma tends to hit her some way generally each time she does something bad. so getting to see her in the past being more actively mean isn't a bad idea to remind us considering origin was just teh tip of the iceburg. its easier for people to assume chloe can be redeemed or brush past alot of the bad stuff we see from her in the show becuase they don't really show chloe winning. but after all they didn't have alya to stand up and inspire others(like mari) to stand up to her or Adrien who would distract chloe or take some of the wind out of her sails in the past. so show us chloe when she was at the peek of her power as class president wasn't a bad idea to remind us why mari was valid in her dislike of chloe.... however it keeps feeling like Tom actively made this episode to make her so bad no one could think to redeem her...but it feel odd when compared to the attitude of everyone in previour episodes...like Mari hasn't really had a trauma response to similar situations in the show so this coming out this late in the game felt off? it makes that mari learns chloe can be complicated and learn there could be redeemable aspects to her in previour episodes odd. mari had even assumes chloe being a jerk to her ha dbeen park of chloe sensing mari liked adrien which makes no sense if your comparing it to how much more hardcore chloe was in this verson of teh past. and we had seen chloe be able to show some babysteps of actually remorse at times. and even decided to not tell adrien about mari's crush on him becuase mari didn't want chloe to tell. like how am i suppoused to support any of those lessons in previous episodes at all(which already felt a bit dubious but did seem to have progress) when it turned out chloe was THIS bad. Now don;t get me wrong I don't mind the idea of chloe not being reedeemed. it actually works surprisingly well to parallel mari and adrien in different ways. after all Mari kindof retreated into her crush on adrien after the stress of the guardian stuff and the stuff with luka and fu built up. adrien gave her something to feel normal about and project on safely(like mari thinking adrien doesn't have to lie like she does and something to distract herself ad feel normal when the stress started piling up). it was something mari was familiar with. Adrien despite showing he HAD genuinely tried to move in from ladybug went back to his crush on ladybug because even if it wasn't returned it was a good distraction from his more complicated emotions and let him express himself in a safe way he felt. since he knows ladybug doesn't like him and doesn't expect anything from him. and he could drown his complicated feelings on how he wasn't able to be used as much in battles just by focusing on his crush for a time. or how adrien uses a crush on mari to also distract himself from the fact he catacysmed a person. chloe was literally isolated from help on a building. she was told her parents were deliberately akumatized due to her by hawkmoth with the implication he might keep doing it. they cut her ladybug signal to ask for help so she was isolated with a villian who is a master at manipulating emotions. A villian who used her insecurity and ladybug choosing someone else hawkmoth knows to his advantage to pry that feeling open.and how chloe had accepted not being the bee because ladybug had said it was for safty and to protect choe and the bee..just for her parents to be targeted anyway and hawkmoth was able to steal the bee under ladybug's nose when chloe had trusted her to keep pollen safe. if chloe had said no hawkmoth would have kept pollen...and she only agreed after he said he's free her parents. and chloe decided to focus on feeling petty toward ladybug about how ladybug should have kept her as the bee despite teh fact chloe HAD accepted it in a previous episode ...which made it feel like there was more to why she was acting the way she did than just her normal petty behaviour...we had literally seen her choose to believe in ladybug wo gave her a chance ad refuse a akuma before...so them acting like chloe didn't understand she wasn't gonna get the bee anymore felt off to just take at face value. but her choosing to blame ladybug in a shallow way and fixating on what hawkmoth said(that its on ladybug for not giving her the bee) instead of bringing up the other factors felt like there was anotehr layer than ehr just being horrible. chloe had tried to be better...she wasn;t really good at it but there WAS some clear babysteps of progress so when she messed up with one of teh people she had been motivated to do better(ladybug) ......chloe retreated into what she knows...which is being mean. ANYONE would have a hard time afte rmessing up that bad....so chloe going bakc to what she knows would explain why she seemed to act even worse in teh following season despite her progress before..as well as make a parallel with how both mari and adiren when they weren't communicating how they felt at points started not reacting in the best of ways at times. chloe having a parallel where she was getting worse both because she was relying on what she knows to distract herself and not communicating some of the nuances that could gets someone to want to help her feels like it in character. but making her THIS bad while it does justify mari thinking how horrible chloe was in other epiosdes...made it feel odd because mari's feels had already been justified. more adrien and chloehad already stopped being friends after zoey appeared so it felt odd they were double downing on it here when nothing showed adrien wafflin on that stance in other episodes. and it felt even odder for me about kim because on one hand we ha dseen kim could bully a bit himself(looking at what happened in origin with ivan) and that he used to have a crush on chloe up to dark cupid...but mari didn;t KNOW about kim's crush in darkcupid so this feels odd like wouldnt she have known...more over why would she help kim if he had been this horrible? kim had also been a miraculous holder(the monkey) and kim had gotten over chloe back in season one with no signs of that lingering crush unless you ount the time he danced with chloe during the 'chloe is trying to be nice' party. and kim and his girlfriend has kindof been together for a while...so it felt VERY VERY VERY weird that he tried to defend what he did let along talk about how chloe is beautiful infront of his girlfriend when his girlfriend confronted him about twhat he did. i mean from kim's perespective it seemed like just a fun prank maybe...but with it being brought up maybe he hadnt reaslized how deeply it impacted mari..which could of course get him defensive because no one wants to admit they did wrong or hurt a friend. but it felt VERY VERY strange that kim wouldn't feel bad about it...or that his apology had to be forced out of him and didn't seem very sincere considering he is suppoused to be closer to marinette now. as for the reason for mari doing some of her stalker tendancies around adrien....on one hand getting deeper explanations aren't always bad...but it does feel like its excusing alot of her behavour without really addressing it entirely...and it feels even more that way because this is being brought up so many seasons in when mari's was just kindof brushed off as her being a bit over fixated and info gathering to feel closer to him while keeping some distance to avoid feeling rejected and that mari just hadn't realized her boundaries of going too far because her feelings are intense, adrien info is redily available and her freinds support her not realizing how weird it is since they know mari means well...like mari strait up broke into his room and smelled his pillow and collected whats he thought was a wax hair and went through his garbage to get his poem. and had a lowkey kidnapping plot that the girls throught was fun in operation secert garden and she tried to decided stuff for adrien at times when it came to jealousy....alot of which can be mistakes or impulsivities that people give into at that age...maybe not some of the more intense ones like the breaking into the room and sniffing hsi pillow......this does feel like a tacted on aspect to explain her behavior the way they handled it. so i got all kindof mixed feelings about this one where there are parts i like in theory but the affect it has on the show as a whole and teh implications of it for how i'm suppooused to look at previour episodes with new eyes....makes it feel worse? like on one hand this is canon now and to disregard it would be to be dismissive of how bad mari had it or potentialy giving excuses to chloe's behaviour which i don't want to do because DAMN that bully is bad and mari deserves to be protected. and we all know chloe was worse before origins so its not like seeing her worse is the problem. especially since kids CAN get this cruel at bullying. but on the other accepting this as canon is hard because it clashes with alot of stuff that had been shown and established and makes alot of the other episodes trash if this is included and made alot of behaviour around chloe they had in other episodes feel weird if she was this irredeemable all along.

[@an_impasse]

Tryna read tbrough the comments and you've hogged up so much space in it, inconsiderate prick. This is a comments section not an academic essay, GODS.

[@xai-1809]

woah

[@Mimi_UAE09]

Actually mari wasn’t the one who chose the miraculous. Master fu told her to give the miraculous

[@clarisacalderon9555]

@@Mimi_UAE09 true...but didn't she still used him later?

[@Mimi_UAE09]

@@clarisacalderon9555 yea because she needed him for the battles she can’t just trust diffrent people with a miraculous

[@chatastrophic]

the way every maribug anti needs to watch this masterpiece of a video rn 🗣🗣

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Thank you!💗💗

[@mladybug6620]

REAL,THEY REALLY NEED TO

[@sparxstreak02]

6:52 Soqueline was suspended, not expelled but there was only 2 weeks till she went on to senior high school anyway.

[@saratronus]

So basically what happened to Azula. But like in my opinion they Did it a lot better with azula. Tbh

[@alicianelson1252]

They didn't do anything with Azula until the end wtf are you talking about

[@saratronus]

@alicianelson1252 You slowly saw it throughout the few seasons. Her mental issues with her mother. And how it slowly devolved inter insanity and her obsession with perfection and control. It's kind of obvious in the show ngl

[@alicianelson1252]

@saratronus yeah but that's not what they did with marinette she us afraid to talk to boys because of trauma

[@saratronus]

@alicianelson1252 Never said they did, I'm just saying the mental breakdown part was done better. Because you knew something was wrong with azula But When I came to we were Marinatte They treated What she was doing as normal Like no one acted concerned or scared of her actions, the way they did with azula. That's what I mean, and we never got like snippets of this being an unhealthy behavior due to trauma. It was just all thrown at us in one episode. Technically speaking, I wanna azula had multiple episodes showing that she was unwell and unnaturally cruel

[@alicianelson1252]

@saratronus that's an interesting take but I think Chloe is more like Azula since her obsession with perfection comes from pressure from her family not a traumatic event Marinette is more like Katara after Katara lost her mom she took a motherly role in response to that traumatic event and she needed to be in control of everything often forgetting she was a kid Marinette didn't suffer loss of a loved one but she did experience trauma and now she needs to know everything and be in control of everything to avoid it happening again Azula and Chloe mostly hurt others Katara and Marinette only hurt themselves

[@bavard100]

Okay so I haven’t watch s4-5, I use to not like marinette and kinda wish Chloe had redemption arc wish she was queen bee. She could had potential. After seeing this is good to have two side one not changing from truma and the other dies. When I was teen 14-16 years old I had trauma that effected me for 8 years. Only recently I was ready to let go and let new love in. I’ve been working on myself to be a better person, as I hurt people in the past. I’m trying not to run away or pull away when I feel hurt that people change and move on. They always come back not gone forever

[@AshBlueFox16]

7:27 I’m a bit like Mylene, because my sister was in a hospital for 1 or 2 weeks, and I don’t be a dickhead to everyone

[@TheCartoonHotspot]

Exactly! We all have our issues but it doesn’t give us the excuse to be assholes to everyone. You never know what people are dealing with and it’s important to treat everyone with kindness which is something Chloe doesn’t do but Marinette proves to do every single day through her actions!

[@AshBlueFox16]

@@TheCartoonHotspot I’m still surprised that Marinette hasn’t snapped at her yet

[@kainightshade5033]

@@AshBlueFox16 Oh don't worry...that's coming 😏

[@nicepeeva1048]

I agreed. She deserves some better.

[@alwaysrunning234]

The way people will defend Chloe and bash Marinette is why bullies get away with everything. Literally. By no means is Mari a perfect person, but bro it's obvious Marinette's actions are trauma responses.

[@iovelusion]

She’s not perfect but the way th show puts it she’s a Mary su they want to blame Chloe for her being a stalker.. like girl what ?? 🤣🤣 if ur so blind u can’t see that this episode is was a scapegoat on Chloe

[@Owell_Owl]

​she is not a mary sue like sure she's good at quite a bit of things but she literally mistakes pretty about most of the episodes