WARFRAME - The True Nature of the Void Entity and The Chains of Harrow?

[@seyvetch7863]

"Albrech Entrati to his dying days..." hm. In a zariman tablet Wally questions what happened to Albrecht so we are unsure if he is dead, his daughter seems to believe he is in the void too. Also another thing: just noticed how the Red veil insanity on the Steel maridian ship is the same as adults' insanity on Zariman

[@leviosdraekion6993]

That effect used for when the Warden and Wally disappear looks an awful lot like the radiation gore effect. Either A) there is some connection or B) it is just DE saving time and money.

[@TheDsIEGE]

Very good observation, I've just only seen two npc's do that...

[@serinahighcomasi2248]

Radiation has a gore effect? Never seen it so far.

[@tdw745]

@@TheDsIEGELephantis’s heads do it when you kill them in the fight, I’m pretty sure it’s just the effect used to despawn an NPC with animations

[@NotteLadro]

@@tdw745 It's the despawn/disintegrate animation. Killing with Corrosive is extremely similar or identical. Many other materials and other objects disappearing do it as well. Additionally, the reason the eyes fade right toward the end is 'cause typically eyes are rendered separately in many games (sometimes with other details like teeth) which is also a pretty big giveaway as well that it's just a standard anim applied to both of those NPC models.

[@limboprime4008]

​@@tdw745lephanits heads explode, dont just dissappear, like wally

[@inductivebag4669]

This video has shifted my entire perspective on the story, wow

[@TheDsIEGE]

I know right? All the old quests have such a different feel now!

[@gionharis13]

All I'm saying is... Some pages are lost then replace, rewrite, then forgotten, and lost again...

[@thimovijfschaft3271]

I thought of the Lotus being taken by wally as well. Like she's been trapped in her chair in her chair for even longer than us. Void exposure is toxic to Sentients. But she actually has het own form of void powers now. Oh and I think the reason why Ballas has a Duviri version now, is because at the end of the New War, Ballas his dead body got sucked into the void portal. Just like how our dying body got thrown into the void by Ballas.

[@TheDsIEGE]

I was thinking the same thing... on all of this!

[@mega7758]

Ballas being present in Duviri may be due to the fact that he was the one to sentance Kullervo, a free-willed frame, so it wouldn't be so wild to assume the warden was created purely through Kullervo's guilt

[@Noxims47314]

When you run across Duviri, the children tend to say the darndest things... little rhymes and songs... I overheard this during the Envy Spiral: "Something's watching through the window, Watching you and watching me... wants what we have. wants to *BE* us! we know that can never be." "Something's waiting, getting closer, watching, waiting for its day, Something needy, cruel and greedy....keep that hungry thing at bay!"

[@notsae66]

I, personally, am entirely happy to work with void daddy for whatever -nerfarious- definitely _beneficient_ ends hes seeking... so long as he gives me more power and shiny things.

[@TheDsIEGE]

I think he's willing to give us all if we just go along with him... Again, I think at this point he's proud of us.

[@notsae66]

@@TheDsIEGE All the more reason to remain on his side. And it doesn't even cost us much, Wally is True Neutral, he doesn't care what we use our powers for all that much, which makes him an excellent patron. Besides, he's right, we are nothing without him; not just our powers and immorality are due to him, everything we've done since the Zariman incident was only possible because he saved us and subsequently stopped other potential deaths. We really do owe him big time.

[@Adrian-ow6pr]

@@notsae66 question is, what is going to ask in return?

[@notsae66]

@@Adrian-ow6pr He already told us, our light. And we gave it to him willingly, even if we didn't understand the full context.

[@Megalomaniakaal]

Least greedy/hoardy tenno:

[@MKMadness]

See this is why I love this game, Warframe may have one of the best Sci-Fi lore ever if they keep on focusing more on Wally and the mysterious aspect of the void.

[@securatyyy]

During the final part of the new war, just before the lotus does the creepy smile, if you look at her hand you will notice a void effect. Its easy to miss, and honestly i think your graphic settings could cause it not to appear, but its there. Pretty sure she struck a deal with wally to save us from the situation. Ya know, fighting directly next to the sun, on a vessel with a declining orbit. I think he pops up and offers people a choice during critocal moments, as he did with us on the zariman. He was like ill save you from all this but you have to shake my hand. We did and now the lotus has. Edit: also when the wall comes in he is saying vome fass xata etc. I subscribe to the theory dominus thrax is rell. His emotions literally change duviri, rell had problems with emotions. Dsiege im not sure if you checked out the lore fragments in duviri, but they have stories of islands that thrax set adrift. Farming island with blood from the soil, school island where a bunch of creepy smile dopplegangers showed up, etc. I think duviri is the last bastion in the void, and the void is slowly but surely encroaching on it. Taking one island at a time until nothing is left. The lighthouse keeper was crushed by falling chains, and before he died he said he saw a hand slowly approaching everyday. The hand was missing a finger.

[@DakkaSolae]

A DE writer confirmed that Wally isn't saying "oull ris xata vome", but something else, we haven't found out what

[@malaki7335]

​@DakkaLunae the end is for sure Mara Lohk. There are more requiem words we found on Duviri and that one fits perfectly

[@securatyyy]

@@DakkaSolae would you happen to have a link? I've never heard that before.

[@DakkaSolae]

@@securatyyy during Tennocon 2022's sounds of the system, they confirmed that it was something else he was saying

[@MKMadness]

But the Lotus is a sentinel, how would she be able to wield the void?

[@dreamlessking9]

I feel that us tenno will end up alone against it all in the long run.

[@TheDsIEGE]

Most likely... But, we'll have each other and that's gotta count for something!

[@dreamlessking9]

@@TheDsIEGE most definitely

[@ArgKnoxville86]

Aren't we alone alredy??

[@dreamlessking9]

@@ArgKnoxville86 I mean without the lotus, ordis, and all the other allies

[@notsae66]

@@TheDsIEGE I was going to make the point that if we do need to face Wally, maybe our capacity to form bonds and feel emotions would be the advantage we have, but I was struck by an interesting thought; what if, by Wally taking our light, he gained the ability to feel that sorta stuff. It would even partially explain why he's never hurt us and has just followed us around a lot; maybe he's fascinated by us, maybe it's the first time he's cared about anything and he doesn't know what to do about it. The "Light" he took from us has to mean something, and while our Oro or Soul would also work, a newfound capacity to feel emotions would explain his somewhat erratic behavior. Or course, this would beg the question of why we can still feel things, but perhaps him taking our light doesn't mean he can't share it with us; one fire can warm many, after all.

[@godzelda123]

Another small connection I made that actually ties into the War Within. It might be a stretch but there's been a lot of mention of a 'Wall of bone' in regards to the Man in the Wall. Well in the War Within, the Golden Maw is swimming in a large pile of bones. Granted that's not a wall per say and it could be nothing, but it's something I noticed upon replaying it recently.

[@TheDsIEGE]

I plan on doing a similar thing in the future with the new war, sacrifice, Second Dream and War Within, and we'll get into that for certain...

[@Mr.TickTodoDia]

It's a cool ideia to see us playing as a doppelganger of ourselfs, DE loves the idea of changing the rules of the game and the player

[@ChrisCrazyMania]

I'm a big believer of the "Lotus is Possessed" theory. because WHY would she SMILE LIKE THAT after seeing that thing

[@ArgKnoxville86]

This is probably one of the best videos you have done regarding the actual lore of Warframe. DE should push this video if they ever want to bring people back to their game. I think you should definetly do more, like videos on the views we have had on the void itself or how about the derelict or the orokin? But this video is amazing, very good job

[@TheDsIEGE]

Thank you, and yes, I feel like it's time to revisit some of the old quests to see how the new war and duviri effect it, at the same time giving people (what I feel at least) is an entertaining synopsis of what happened. We all could use a refresh on some of this stuff, I'm sure. But thank you again, I appreciate ya!

[@gionharis13]

Agree

[@maarek71]

Bring people back? LOL the community is bigger than ever right now. Swarms of players joining my clan these days.

[@ArgKnoxville86]

@@maarek71 Everyone I have ever played with, has quit the game long ago. I quit when The New War came out, because at that point the game lots its sense of meaning, they are just never going to give us anything straight story-wise and gameplay-wise they keep pushing the game to be less Warframe and more everything else.

[@00spiderwolfman]

I really like the chains of harrow quest and tbh I felt a great personal resonance when I played it as someone with autism which rell is implied to have I really felt a lot of that same resonance with this video and your theory very very well done sir!

[@TheDsIEGE]

Thank you and I was telling another commenter how I loved the idea of bringing attention to something more people should probably have an understanding of and at the same time making a fantastic quest. Messages within movies and video games are great but if the story in game isn't interesting it won't resonate with people and thus it's probably more detrimental to awareness than it would have been if never written. DE killed it with this quest tho... it still gets me every time I play it.

[@redthewifeyhunter4034]

I love it when games have an overall story developing in the background in these quests.

[@jarviscreations]

Really great video! It feels like it's all coming together.

[@TheDsIEGE]

Thank you so much and yes, warframe's lore is just killing it right now!

[@gionharis13]

"Speak" "listen" ".... between the dust to the Void" I love that that line

[@gregh.7907]

Very, very good video sir!! I have long thought about the handshake that started everything. It was the Lotus' right hand, attached to the Wally version of us just like it is attached to the Drifter's right hand. In addition, if you watch the ending of the New War again, it looks like Wally absorbed itself into her left hand, smoke trailing from it as she shakes it off. When we carry her back to her room, the first thing she does is look at that hand, kinda favoring it as she grabs her arm with it, looking unsure of herself. Of course, that handshake was before she received that hand chop from Ballas, meaning she has been "infected" by Wally for a while...centuries. Lotus...is a mimic. She can be anyone at anytime and, if her initial voyage through the void was her first encounter with Wally, then perhaps her deal was to have "children" again, in exchange for Wally being able to travel within her. Lastly, the New War trailer has a different scenario than what we actually play. This is also the case from the last TennoCon's Duviri demo, where the Drifter picks up her hand instead of it attaching. Could this be intentional moves by DE?

[@TheDsIEGE]

I think you're the first commenter to pick up on that... I have a video on her coming up. So interesting that she is the mimic queen, and the man in the wall likes to make copies of himself. Ever see another sentient do ANYTHING like what the Lotus can, LOL?

[@godzelda123]

@@TheDsIEGE We see some sentient mimics in the first cinematic for the sacrifice, but that's about it. Lotus does seem to be unusually powerful for a sentient, I mean she hid the moon in the void for gods sake. Maybe that was also infused by Wally somewhat? Hiding the Zariaum children in his domain for who knows how many years

[@HiberNater504]

Maybe he's just smiling because he sees, that we are indeed following down the path he saw before us. Or maybe we're one of the tenno that despite the odds ended up succeeding where we were supposed to fail.

[@zepshire]

You know as someone who has read Lord of the Mysteries, that ending sequence where you said that anyone could be potentially compromised, it really reminded me of one of the antagonists since that is a constant fear in that book.

[@MB-sq7yn]

My takeaway from Chains of Harrow is that it was Rell who was bound there, but he was being possessed by Wally, who was using him to reach out and finally break through from the Void into our world via helping him. Albrecht, Rell, Lotus and the Operator all share a connection of not only making direct contact with Wally, but also in that their memories and connections are exposed and exploited during times of immense importance/stress to achieve results that cause dramatic shifts in the world around them. Each of us effectively becoming sleeper agents to be activated when needed to cause the balance of things to change, and bring our world that much closer to the Void.

[@olizwonull1517]

the harrow quest and red tap tap is giving me goosbumps all the time is so crazy-

[@johnconn4131]

To me this reaffirms the concept of the Man in the Wall as God, the Void as the Holy Spirit, and the Tenno Jesus, both entirely man and entirely God. Warframe plays with these concepts a lot more, such as Transference and Eternalism, but at the core I think that Trinity remains. Maybe because of this I am drawn towards the Man in the Wall. I have never, in my entire playthrough, seen him as an enemy. I remember when Lotus left I was comfortable following and trusting him without question. I think his plan and unorthodox means of executing it are meant to mimic that of the real God, and like the real God, these methods cause people to doubt both his existence and intentions.

[@TheDsIEGE]

It's funny you should mention that. I have a video coming up soon regarding the concept of the trinity in warframe, as it's all over the place in the lore, not just with the tenno. Also... I'll be talking about how I see the overarching story going in one of two ways, oedipal in that we are forced to kill our father or... what it looks like now, we are to be sacrificed for the entirety of the universes salvation, and there's a Zariman tablet that specifically says "I said I'd save them all, Tenno. Never said I'd save you" which leads me to believe we are currently on the path of the latter...

[@notsae66]

@@TheDsIEGE The major problem with that, is that the Tenno dying/sacrificing themselves/their power would make future play impossible; something DE will never do.

[@notsae66]

I also never saw The Man In The Wall as an enemy, though for different reasons. He's demonstrated that he has the power to effect reality and potentially harm us whenever he wants, yet he's only ever given us tough love at worst. He may be hostile to the system or life in general (possibly by his sheer presence being harmful to mortals), but he's at the very least nominally on our side so far. Nothing he's done so far has been harmful to us (aside from during CoH, during which he was lashing out at the world over being trapped, and the Lotus shades after she left, which were weak and arguably more a harsh way to help us get over the pain of her betrayal than a real attack) and he's provided help we would be utterly powerless without.

[@nirablackfire2792]

This is a interesting concept. The idea of Warframe using biblical parallels in it's core lore. But that also begs the question, is Wally more along the lines of God, or Lucifer? If we're talking biblical. Wally reminds me more of Lucifer, in the fact he represents forbidden knowledge and that the void is more akin to a warping Hell as mortals who are not protected usually end up become corrupt creatures prone to suffer until they are ultimately put down. Wally could very well could be the Serpent luring us into temptation, instead of the loving but firm father of creation. I don't know why, but I feel the exact opposite of comforted everytime I interact with the Man in the Wall. There's a layer of uneaseiness. The confident charismatic way he seems to behave thinly veils his manic undertones (the infamous unhinged grin comes to mind.) The way he appears to feed off our emotions mimics how Lucifer uses the flaws of man to corrupt them and turn them away from the righteous path. The way he appears to make "deals" isn't hidng the fact it's a "deal with the devil" situation. You get something you desperately want, in exchange for your soul. Perhaps the whole concept is a twisted version of the holy trinity. I just don't see Wally being akin to God himself. He strikes me more along the lines of the devil luring victims to do his bidding by manipulation and taking advantage of one's desperation. *I.E like a child losing their mother figure and is in desperate need of guidance and comfort...*

[@johnconn4131]

@@nirablackfire2792 while I understand this correlation, specifically the “deal with the Devil” aspect, I think Wally still is more of a good figure. As the user above mentioned, he is a seemingly omnipotent being that has not harmed us. As I said in the original comment, the unorthodox means by which Wally gets what he wants are akin to God’s. God made many deals throughout the Bible with many people. The Jews weren’t supposed to worship other gods and he would give them the promised land, but they did and he made them all die and gave it to their children. David was meant to reign peacefully his whole life, but Bathsheba and what he did to her changed that. Solomon was meant to reign equally calmly after his father, but his womanizing was his destruction. In every instance God told them that if they obeyed him he would grant them prosperity, and at every instance they didn’t and he took it from them. I see Wally like that. He is asking for our obedience, and if we obey he will do as we wish too. I see failed obedience resulting in our destruction. Again, as I said before, this trade off will make a lot of people not trust Wally, just like it makes a lot of people not trust God.

[@BartEmbregts]

Just like Rell, I also have autism and the line: "Mama! When will they fix me?". Just freaking hit different. All the games he played with his mother we're ones I also played when I was younger. Like Rell, I was also shunned by other kids because I was "different". This story mission straight up placed A mirror in my face and I wasn't really prepared for it.

[@roomba2747]

Hey man, I’ve been playing since 2013 and I have to say yours has become my favorite channel by far. So many channels are about playing the game, yours is ABOUT the game in such an effective and gripping way. I myself am a lore whore with warframe, so I appreciate all the detail and background you put into your videos. I always love how your theories are very well grounded without being sensationalist. Love the tone. Can’t recommend you enough to others. Keep up the phenomenal work! I’m enjoying diving into your catalog.

[@TheDsIEGE]

Thank you!!! I do try to do things a bit differently than others, mostly to try to provide options for lore fans within warframe. I'm really glad you enjoy how I do it!!!

[@thegamertrio6827]

the connection to watchers island and chains of harrow staggered me when i read it, the world of duviri appears to be some sort of twisted mirror of our own and somehow vaguely connected to all the tenno if Rell somehow manifested there as Garmi, and if i interpreted what we were being told/shown, Dominus Thrax is a reflection of our tenno, and since we were the one that made the deal/did it first it would make sense that we would think ourselves superior to the others no matter how small, thusly why Thrax acts how he does, and if that is correct the entities tied to his emotions could be major influences from our life/past that through life experience led to how those aspects developed and the void has given them all life and the true paradox is that our drifter exists as a whole with emotions all in control while Thrax appears as a more childish part of us that wants to be in control of everything which may relate to us making the deal with Wally giving us and thusly Thrax that sense of superiority, and doesnt want to share it and thus because if his childish his emotions are out of control allowing them to manifest as individuals within the duviri void-scape while still being able to influence Thrax and be controlled by him when needed, and this would also explain why Rell only manifested in duviri as Garmi, his other emotions had become tied to Harrow as a result of the transference loop and may also be in part to him being on the autism spectrum and not properly being able to express his emotions thusly a more idealised version of himself being Garmi entered duviri when he dreamt, this could also be why Rell wasnt as easy to manipulate by Wally as he wasnt able to be maniplulated be his emotions thusly able to see Wally's offer for what it truly was and thusly why he decided to fight back against Wally, at this point i think you get where im going as even while writing this im starting to feel my brain melt so ill leave it here

[@Zarkator]

I've always thought that everyone in duviri are some result of the people who were on the zariman, the drifter had saved them by creating duviri. If rell is the correlate to dominus, it would explain why dominus has to be manually influenced by the emotional spirals of duviri, to help calm his overstimulation. The word "Thrax" also refers to the ancient land of Thrace, where Orpheus is from, a hero who had superhuman senses for music and sound. I think the man in the wall held the real zariman in the void and created duviri around it, to save everyone as part of the deal with us. This allowed the man in the wall to project a second zariman back out of the void as if nothing had happened (except for all the death and stuff) where margulis founded the tenno and created the second dream etc. Dominus trapping the drifter in duviri wasn't part of the plan, because if the man in the wall and the Dealmaking Tenno are one, Thrax trapping the drifter would have to be equivalent to rell trapping the void demon in Harrow. The man in the wall being released from the chains of Harrow is what set in motion the start of the new war, by sowing the seed in Lotus's mind that she isn't the real margulis, and so that all leads to her hand being chopped off and falling into duviri to allow the drifter to overpower dominus.

[@STUVash]

There are many ways to read the Warframe story as it's all vague enough to let the mind wanders, but some ideas do come back often enough to seem "clearer" than others. Enjoyed your takes as much as last times, and welcome back.

[@TheDsIEGE]

Thank you so much!!!! I appreciate the support And I hope you enjoy my next video because it expounds on that exact thing, with some of what's becoming clearer actually kind of disturbing! I hope you'll check it out!!!

[@STUVash]

@@TheDsIEGE Always here for it 🔥

[@tyrantofcans465]

First 40k with Eldritch Concepts of Being, then Lancer with Eldritch Math, and now Warframe with Eldritch Biology. What's next, Eldritch Language Arts? Wait, that's just Cthulhu... At this rate, I'll be able to take Eldritch School Classes.

[@kjaiserlp7613]

Mind blowing as always. I don't have anything more insightful to say as of now; just dropping a like and a comment to help appease the algorithm. Happy to have you back, Siege

[@cobymugridge6420]

I wonder if the operator is the other to the drifter? The drifter is within the void, as he says to the operator in The New War, he is “the one who never got out of this mess” (quote was something similar) so maybe when the zariman entered the void (and everyone else that ever enters the void) that itself was what created a doppelgänger of the zariman and all of its passengers and that ship was the one to leave the void? Now the remaining questions would be what caused it to leave the void and how does wally fit in, id say that wally is what actually creates the doppelgängers as he is obviously connected to the operator, entrati, rell, lotus. Using this im suggesting that he creates the doubles by somehow merging his void body/ spirit with our corporeal one, making a complete copy of the original person but with a unseverable connection to the void (or at least to him), allowing wally to interact with them in a limited way but as he has no influence on the solar system he cannot take advantage of the double as easily and must taunt and attempt to coerce them mentally, the tenno are the only instance of a further connection to wally through the handshake/ deal we make and rell choosing to outright fight against him by trapping himself and wally in the somatic link (i think its called that). which gives us our void powers(drifter only gets his powers after somehow connecting with operator in TNW). Im also suggesting that wally sent the operators zariman out of the void because he finally achieved an actual foothold of the physical world

[@Solusire]

You are cooking for sure. From what I've seen I believe everybody misinterprets how the man in the wall speaks. His goal isnt to make us trust him, it's to make him real (similar to the ahamkara in destiny [oh _ mine]). It seems to me that he belittles, scares, and taunts his victims in order to break down their will and then take control from there. He takes the form of his victims to make them think that he IS them and that he is in control. It makes sense to me that transference / mind control is a power given by the void, and that a God of the void would be able to use such power on any being he wants, so long as he is able to break down their will. I understand rell now, his work was beyond noble. But now... Whatever you do, don't welcome him into your orbiter.

[@dawid34f77]

Doesn't Quinn sense 2 people in us and ask us which we think is real ?

[@garyyym4699]

i think DE will never reveal what or who is the man in the wall. The character itself was meant to be eldritch and a lovecraftian kind of entity. Shrouded in eternal mysteries, never to be understood its goal or the point of it existence. Its just...there, and it exist, and we dont know what, why or how. Perhaps he existence might be way beyond our human comprehensiveness, and thats what makes The Man In The Wall so interesting yet haunting. He makes us questions everything.

[@R462venom]

Nah I'm pretty sure the man in the wall is the Sergeant

[@calypsothespirit]

Well.. if we are the 'other' Tenno, wouldn't that make sense, given the existence of The Drifter?

[@misspiggy9647]

Amazing video. The new quests that were showed at TennoCon had me going down a rabbit hole of all the lore. You realize how deep the story really does go.

[@Obelisk-oj4fu]

So we went from space ninjas too kids with ptsd too kids with ptsd and derealization, sounds like warframe lore to me

[@TheDsIEGE]

You got it, complete with an eldritch god who likes to mess with us just for the fun of it, Good times!

[@HorrorDox]

I swear these videos always come in whenever I feel bored about the game. The storylines Future is extremely exciting. My guess is for DE's plan for this Man in the wall story, is probably to do 1-2 more small story quests with the man in the wall uniquely in them for some integral way. Moving into the next big story line quest being about the Lotuses Visions / backstory besides the stuff we already know. This all leading up to the next big New War style quest being about figuring out who is the man in the wall.

[@goldendoomslayer6301]

God damnit man you officially gave me goosebumps with this video and i love it. The man in the wall is my favorite force in the game he is possibly one of the most awesome depictions of the eldritch horror trope in recent gaming and i love every small morsel of information we find out about his plan and you good sir have contributed to this as well please keep up thr good work.

[@TheDsIEGE]

Thank you and Mine too. Wally is the best!!! Why do you think pretty much every video on this channel has something to do with him, lol

[@gr_egg]

i forgot your channel existed, and now this got recommended to me, I'm genuinely so excited to sit here and listen, i already know its gonna be incredible

[@yenchey3270]

Yup. Instant sub+bell. This is THE highest quality theory-crafting I've seen in this community.

[@TheDsIEGE]

Thank you!!!! Plenty more on the way!

[@Virtuasamsara]

I haven't played through Duviri yet except for the starting quest, but when you showed the Watcher's Island lore at 16:38, I noticed that the void storm with chains falling out of the sky was described as, "It hung in a *red veil* across the sky." So is THAT where the name of the Red Veil syndicate came from...? Wow. I had forgotten that they basically worshiped Rell/Harrow, did the quest years ago. Overall, FASCINATING video--I never know WTF is going on in Warframe, since the story is presented in such an abstract-feeling way. It feels like you really have to dig to piece things together, and you present your findings and theories excellently and clearly! I am about to deep-dive binge watch your channel, so thank you. Liked and subbed. :)

[@slowowned51]

I THOUGHT OF THIS QUEST when I did the war story. The fact we see the man on the wall before we can interact with him and all he does is tap the glass...

[@Noxims47314]

Rap tap tap.

[@goodenoughright5433]

I did not think this is we're we were going

[@dark_taco]

Bro this is the only warframe content I neeeeed. So glad you're back 🤧

[@TheDsIEGE]

Thank you and I'm glad you liked it! It was really fun to make!

[@hamzasamar8823]

Amazing video , thank you . i think we will get some answers or more questions in tennocon .

[@thecovenant3842]

Ever since learning about the Zariman accident, I theorized that Void rifts causing enemies to attack one another isn't because they were driven mad. It's because they were replaced.

[@biskittngravy969]

These videos are very well done. I adore your content!

[@TheDsIEGE]

Thank you!!!

[@ineedmoneysp]

The thing behind Rell I guess he was chained too looks like the mother and others from Deimos that come out of those tentacles pod things. I’m surprised I haven’t seen more people talk about that

[@burchified]

You can hear a rap tap tap sound when starting the 2nd area in the Munio Entrati mirror defense

[@Tacatgo]

I think the man in the wall has to follow the void logic of emotions and thought manifesting things. So in the Chains of Harrow quest, because we (the tenno, lotus and palladino) expected Rell, it looked like Rell (at least if it is really Wally and not the real Rell). All the other times we see it in a quest, it is in moments where the Tenno is deeply connected with themself (like in the War Within). To be honest, I don't think the Man in the Wall has too much agency in its actions, and I would even go so far as to say that it is not really an individual entity, but more like a half-being that represents the void itself. I think a good analogy are the old gods from the lovecraftian mythos, as they also act as individuals, but without any self-awareness, and are bound to their "path" of what they are supposed to be. Also, concerning the question of Albrecht Entrati, it is well wihtin the knowledge about the void that we gain on the zariman that actually both came back (the question about whether tha father or the mother survives). That could also be why palladino is acting so strange: It might be stretch, but due to how close we came to the void in the chains of harrow quest, that might just be a kind of uncertainty of which reality we are in: the one where it is rell or the one where it is wally who contacted us.

[@0oAngel0fDeatho0]

An awesome video as always. A lot to think about. And speculate. But I just had some really insane idea. As you were playing video from Chains of Harrow and I was listening at the voice of Rell's mother... I got a feeling that she is speaking in a very simmilar manner like Mathila in Duviri. (The joy character)... Anyway.... can't wait for another video...

[@Darziak]

After this video I took a look at the Harrow scene in Captura and it's interesting if you look at what Harrow is viewing. That source of the light at Harrow looks awfully like an eye.

[@Noxims47314]

When I drank the kuva at the quest instead, space-dad told me "what took you so long?" the ramifications are now a little more...daunting.

[@LimakPan]

I see the Drifter as the Rell of his timeline, with Dominus and his Dax being Tenno equivalents, and Teshin the man-in-the-wall stand-in. It's an alternative timeline built through parallel. One in which Drifter isn't saved from the trauma, but gets to rely on a father figure. Everything about the lore and nature of Duviri suggests that it never featured any of the other children, as only the Drifter survived. Even the holdfasts aren't part of the Drifter's native reality, but rather those who lived through the catastrophe on the Operator's side of the timeline.

[@brokencreationlordmegatrol3037]

the sound effect on this quest scared the crap out of me as i had good headphones

[@TheOppiter]

these are some incredible video essays. incredibly well put togehter. im incredibly impressed.

[@naradloff]

I can identify with the problem of understanding emotions as a kid. Rell was autistic like me.

[@oriondezagrats4228]

I have to say, I'm pleasantly surprised and honoured to have been given special mention on this video's topic. Thank you for that, and I think the video was quite good! Following on Wally's disappearing act, that's not how he used to work. Prior to an update, I forget which one, Wally would stick around only as long as you actually kept a line of sight with him, which would result in many instances of folks seeing someone appearing in the peripheral of their vision for a split second, but looking back and not seeing anything there. Similarly, any time folks got a good look at wally then decided to walk away, if they turned back for any reason, he'd be gone. That 'poof' effect he does now, and disappearing on a timer, I think, was to reduce the creep-out and horror factors of the game.

[@oriondezagrats4228]

Adding this in a reply due to KZbin constantly deleting my posts whenever I simply edit them, but this behaviour of Wally is consistently described by many other characters throughout the game when it comes to Void shenanigans. Archimedian Yonta in particular would sometimes say, "I'd never liked to stayed too long in the Reliquary Drive chamber, even when I was alive. I kept thinking I could see myself out the corner of my eye, grinning."

[@TheDsIEGE]

I agree. Here's something interesting tho. The Vagabond character in Duviri doesn't do this. It acts the way the man in the wall used to act. He'll stay there until you turn away. Now... My question is... Why are Wally and Ballas the only two npc's to do this? That being said... I definitely want to thank you and wanted to give you a special shout. Replaying the quest inspired all kinds of things, so I'm really glad I got to see your post!

[@shadowwjeffy2289]

It's so good that you're back, and really made me change how I see the story.

[@alaskarii007]

I'm just happy that even after the New War, there's still aspects of warframe lore yet to be explored, leaves a lot of room for future content.

[@TheDsIEGE]

I feel like we're just scratching the surface...

[@sovl2659]

I have the presumption that wally was actually about to escape from rell and paladino simply got tenno within wally's sight to divert his attention away from red veil. The fact that rell was actually "tired" points in this direction.

[@rinz5027]

Thank you for giving me a nightmare fuel knowing that I now can't tell who I am playing as. Amazing lore video!

[@bobjim245]

In the same way rell could be analogous to dominus thrax, similar but not the same, kullervo is almost analogous to ordis, both killed a blue skinned despot only to be tortured for effectively eternity only for the drifter/operator to help redeem them :)

[@yzeey]

I think I may have an answer to your closing question. We get to decide based on our choices. Remember that moon emblem that shifts either towards light or dark? Everyone playing will get a verdict/ending based on where their compass stands

[@flownifacientbeatz8731]

You know I was meditating and a thought came to me afterward. Just like how we humans are essentially consciousness/spirit with a body. I made the connection that in Warframe the Tenno are essentially the Void and thus we are also the man in the wall. He could be us having a human experience and then boom I see your video and it pretty much says what have been thinking. Plus isn't Steve into eastern culture and mysticism?

[@TheDsIEGE]

And there it is. That's exactly what I believe it to be. We are him...

[@terpy663]

It's interesting to consider the possibility we only interacted with Rells mimic, however I find it unlikely given the content of the "memories" we are shown. Understanding emotions and making connections with people who have been hurt are not just key themes of warframes story, they are fundamental aspects of the tenno's power. Given what we saw with whispers in the walls Wally actively tries to prevent the tenno from gaining knowledge which helps us connect with Loid and "take his pain away". With that context I think its unlikely Rells mimic would show us flashbacks demonstrating how his understanding of emotion made him resistant to Wallys influence.

[@netherbrine5902]

It's kind of sad tbh, knowing the Captain Vor's story never ended

[@TheDsIEGE]

Who's to say it won't at some point? He's just back for round two. Now the question really is... How did he get to the undercroft, and futhermore, I feel like this confirms that he is now solely a void entity. Who knows what's pulling his strings?

[@netherbrine5902]

@@TheDsIEGE Makes you wonder the true nature of orokin technology, like the Janus Key. I kinda feel sorry for the old guy tbh. Btw, this question may be dumb...but How was Rell able to acquire his own warframe, Harrow? Didn't Margulis cast him out long before that? Or could this be the work of the Red Veil, or even the void (Like how Kullervo exists within Duviri)?

[@ryangrantland1901]

I was just doing a Zariman bounty and Quinn said "I percieve two void entities in You." Never gave it a thought before this vid. Now im staring at Zariman walls

[@hypersectomy]

Very comprehensive. I wonder if the void was capable of forming anything before Albrecht entered.

[@TheDsIEGE]

I feel like it needed a "muse", if you will...

[@hypersectomy]

@@TheDsIEGE Albrecht Entrati loosely means "all bright entered", talk about nominative determinism.

[@Neudezign]

Ya know, that part you mentioned about the Lotus smiling? I remember that part when finishing the quest and I remember thinking to myself, "well that's weird" LOL. Of course, I got myself distracted and forgot all about it, until now. Man, every time I watch one of your videos you just end up smacking my brain cells around. 😂 WF lore has always had me intrigued, I definitely look forward to your thoughts, great video.

[@TheDsIEGE]

Thank you! I have a video on her coming up in the near future going over the lotus after the new war... There's a lot to go over, lol...

[@Voldrim359]

Honestly, now a couple of stuff make sense to me on why the New War was like... Skipping stuff... So now that you mention the possesion i was wondering if we have been possesed multiple times during the course of the war and more stuff keep happening, the Zariman is a good example of that, same as the Duviri when we were cast out by Ballas

[@wonderlandnise]

Also ballas calls us "devis from that place" if this theory is right it would shift the meaning of that, as in the tenno from the void, not the tenno from the zariman accident which I have always interperated it as.

[@finnik_23]

yeah this quest freaked me out the first time i played it.

[@HeatherVN_GOTH]

7:31 how'd you change her clothing from white and purple?

[@DashBolt]

You get access to it after the New War

[@HeatherVN_GOTH]

@@DashBolt ooh okay tysm!

[@achiel6700]

I think "the New War" and "the Duviri paradox" were a pretty good payoff to the story setup so far

[@Adrian-ow6pr]

Do you think the infestation if aware of the man in the wall? the seat in the orbiter talks to us, as a demon. do you think they could have seen the man in the wall from the times we entered the void for derrilects and stuff?

[@TheDsIEGE]

Absolutely. And given that the infested have been exposed to the void countless times and have merged with them, there's no reason to believe that it hasn't influenced the helminth. The question really is to what extent?

[@Lordparable]

9:24 I knew it was coming and it still made my hair stand up 😭

[@woahful4054]

Thank you for this video dude !

[@Tabby3456]

everytime i do these types of quests i wonder why don't the Steel Meridian or Arbiters have their own quests?

[@TheDsIEGE]

That's a good question!

[@tremaynetinker8480]

Your one of the best putting warframe out there

[@maxtomchris]

I recall hearing elsewhere that the infestation seems to have some sort of fear of the Void - it could be possible that.. instead of the infestation having direct relation to the Void - the infestation, having its own sort of hive-mind... recognizes that the Void has its own sort of reach, control, hive-mind like behavior (or perhaps more single-mind taking over). Wouldn't it be interesting if the final way to defeat the void entity, is related to recruiting the wild infestation? It's also interesting how Deimos, the place where Albrecht's Laboratory is located, the place with the closest connection between the Void and the world of dust.. seemingly has a layer of infestation around it. This could be a sign of the infestation being an outstretch of the Indifference... or... the Infestation could very well be the force helping to hold the Indifference back. Also worth noting about Vome and Fass and their eternal conflict in Deimos. Order and Chaos respectively... Could one personality be the infestation itself, while the other is the Void Entity trying to take control of the infestation?

[@royalecrafts6252]

the void seems to be something like "xen" from half life, a dimensional 0 sum point where every interstellar traveler ends up being if use dimensional travelling of space/time, and the man in the wall seem to be some kind of Gman

[@kazoobard4365]

While I might not be right, the man in the wall gives me a similar feel to Happy Chaos from the Guilty Gear story, some guy who's incredibly smart and gifted taps into a space between worlds and dimensions and uses it to become all powerful and after a while(thousands of years of while) shows themselves to humanity again to offer a sort of bargain. For Happy Chaos he gives humans magic in return for entertainment, but the Mitw seems to give us void powers(basically void magic lets be honest) in return for, something, probably either loyalty or us doing dirty work for him. Additionally the name "The Man in the Wall" makes him seem mortal and trapped, that despite his seemingly god-like power he's still mortal, still vulnerable, and still possibly trapped in the void. And maybe he's trying to get us to get him out of the void, like we did for Parvos, maybe even having his hands in getting parvos out of the granum void as a sort of test in order to see if we can release him, and now knowing we can he's going full throttle, trying to start a war with the lotus because maybe he knows the lotus would have told us what he is planning so he has to take out the lotus first in order to lead us to setting him free. Just a few thoughts, again I'm probably wrong as I haven't been doing any lore hunting of my own but I still thought it might be worth it to share y'know

[@asuraphreak]

Saw the void entity on my ship yesterday. Been quite a while.

[@2coolGaming]

Really glad to see you back man; I've been a long time viewer and was missing your breakdowns. Will you be attending Tennocon this year?

[@s.c.2180]

I think the warden is simply a copy of the ballas kullervo remembers, the executor he hated so much, just like our memory brought the different daxes.

[@TheDsIEGE]

Sure could Kiddo...

[@markgillianlelis3528]

When i first sa the warden at kullervo hold one question is in my mind, is that ballas? When hear his(warden) voice, i knew it was ballas but different 🤨🤨🤨🤨

[@PPo0919]

God I love your videos man. Thank you for this blessed view you have

[@TheDsIEGE]

I'm glad you enjoy them!!! i'd like to think my perspective, at least within warframe is unique if nothing else.

[@PPo0919]

@@TheDsIEGE I can absolutely agree to this, I have been playing warframe for a long time and I was never able to put the dots together, but the way you explain it makes wayyy more sense !!!

[@plaguedr.crowvin3349]

I still have my head cannon that the drifter is the human of the Tenno and not some sort of different timeline like is implied, and the (what I’m dubbing ‘void clones’) are the Tenno, sons and daughters of the ‘Man in the wall’. We may be considering the wrong possibility of what Entrati thinks. The main thing that makes me think the is that there is a sold them of parenthood in the majority of the games main antagonists, Hunhow lotas father and our disapproving grandfather, Balis an aregent manipulative stepfather who would rather see us dead, and this does apply to the main characters, lotus, margulus, tenshen, heck even Vore has a strange uncle vibe even if he doesn’t follow the trend I’ve pointed out. I think the man in the wall was and possibly still is going to be our “bio father”. This is why our human selves has been kept away form us, in the form of the drifter but because balis even if a void clone is did in my opinion work against the man in the wall trying to destroy the sun and all of that. Anyway thank you for coming to my tedtalk I wish you all a great day

[@whatashame9300]

look at lotus animation. she was trying to close portal. then portal sudden disappears. if wallman decided to go back, why she got pushed like something slam into her, instead of pulled like if resistance disappeared? and why she smiled like wallman. guys we got lotus compromised.

[@redmoonknight1130]

everything aside, The mission where you retrieve the donda used to be a lot scarier in the old corpus tileset.

[@insertedgynamehere___969]

Dominus Thrax could be the Rell's Drifter rather than Rell himself

[@Cryptic_Chai]

The more you stare inside abyss, abyss stares back at you

[@Ice-ou6es]

It should be noted that the dev team has taken some major liberties from the Southern Reach trilogy for the void lore. Especially when Annihilation, the 2018 film came out. Albricht never left the Void.

[@BaronVonToasst]

Now I need to re re replay all the quests

[@ssgevo]

An interesting twist would be that Wally isn't the antagonist, but rather a being preparing us for something far more dangerous, tho his methods are suspicious due to his alien nature. Might sound lazy, but given that he helps us in many ways, despite it seeming like it's only for his own benefit, his "deal" with us may be meant to get us ready for something more.

[@rilius7138]

The Void and everything relating to it is as wibbly wobbly as real physics.

[@thimovijfschaft3271]

Warframe really knows how to do cosmic horror

[@TheDsIEGE]

100% agree, and I'd love another quest in this way.

[@BlessedPengu]

One thing i could add is how the dead bodies of our fallen enemies fade away in almost the same manner.

[@TheDsIEGE]

They do but what makes theses two unique is that they are npc's. I can't think of any other npc's that act in this manner. Even the vagabond character in duviri doesn't do this. He will stay until you look away, like the way the Man in the wall used to work. Not sure if it's anything but I wanted to include it because it does seem odd

[@BlessedPengu]

@@TheDsIEGE Now you got me wanting to play through it all again to see if i missed anything in the story XD

[@LocksLifeLove]

We are BOTH. The tenno AND the man in the wall. The 10-0 child AND the doppelganger. The man in the wall is inside us and once exposed to the indifference we cannot escape. Algorithm fuel.

[@TheDsIEGE]

YES!!!

[@Devilcakes]

I should mention, a large mass of the players further along the story disregard the man in the wall almost outright. Mostly within how he appears in our orbiter. So I guess on that front, DE succeeded