Why Celeste's Hazards Being Broken is Good Game Design

[@limitedlistener6460]

As someone with some reaction and motor control problems, Celeste was one of the least frustrating "precision" platformers I ever played with how they invisibly crafted the game's lenient mechanics and the way they cleverly built on top of existing mechanics. The very forgiving checkpointing system on top of that really made it feel far less intimidating than many other platformers do when frequent mistakes come up. On top of that, the difficulty curve is really gentle and does a great job of easing a player into its upcoming challenges without asking too much of them, so I always felt like I was properly prepared for the really difficult challenges by the ends of levels.

[@DesignDelve]

Wonderful input and thank you for sharing your experience Limited Listener

[@V0idedOut-E33]

I have something to chip in to the accessibility conversation! My littler sister loved to play video games but due to having missing a thumb and no motor functionality in the other thumb, she couldn't enjoy games the same way my brother and I could. Then the DS happened. Jade could finally play a lot of the same games that we could. She discovered pokemon and loved those games so much because she could keep up with them and keep playing them instead of just repeating level 1 over and over again because she didn't like hard games. I remember how much time we spent in car rides to Colorado playing Mario Party DS

[@DesignDelve]

Thank you SO much for sharing your and Jades story. Legit warmed my heart

[@erutz5190]

Does she play pc games? Keyboards don't really require thumbs while controllers rely on them.

[@DesignDelve]

Thanks for watching gang

[@Hero_Puddle]

Also, the devs on numerous occasions have made precise glitches easier to pull off in speedrunning.

[@DesignDelve]

You love to see it

[@koningA]

Great video Reminded me, in a more than good way, of "Why Does Celeste Feel So Good to Play?" by Game Maker's Toolkit (Jul 31, 2019). These two videos are like 100% complimentary (almost as if they are made for eachother!).

[@mulecenter79]

The title card transitions between topics (and the narrative transitions as well) were done super well here. They come off super smoothly =)

[@DesignDelve]

Ayyyy this is an older video of mine so its nice to hear it still holds up! Thank you Matthew

[@Wakkiau]

You nailed it, one thing that i want to criticize the game tho is when they basically throw out all this principle just for 1 screen, the summit c-side final screen. In that one screen alone, Celeste lost all of its leniency with margin of error only being 3-5 frame between successful jump or death. And its the single screen that is just pure frustration because it demands almost pixel perfect execution of over 30 second non-stop platforming. Of course its fitting as it is intentionally made to be the hardest level in the game, but knowing why the screen is very frustrating mean identifying when Celeste loses its fun as a platformer. Its when the platforming no longer have any leniency given to the player, and it happens a few time outside of the aforementioned screen.

[@crazyme1237]

Hey great video! I just want say that at 2:54 this is not how spike hit boxes work. The spikes still reach to the edge of the block however will not kill you if you are moving in the direction they are pointing. When you jump off a wall you move up and will not kill you. Otherwise, great vid!

[@Trashley652]

I love this game so much, and I love the distinction you drew between personal and environmental mechanics. After the prologue, you have all the core personal mechanics. Alongside some recurring ones, each level introduces a few environmental mechanics. At the end of reflections you gain access to the games only true new personal mechanic, the double dash, which works so well, because by the time you get it you're already completely familiar with how it works, because it's just another dash. And then, in the postgame, the game gives you new personal mechanics, in a sense. In Summit B side, you learn wallbouncing, in Core C side, you learn hyperdashing, and in Farewell, you learn wavedashing. In actuality, you had them the whole time, you just didn't know how to use them. But they were there, right in the game's core mechanics the whole time. Some players discover these on their own or with help before the game teaches them, and they're useful in any level. The techniques can be difficult to execute, but because they're constructed from the core mechanics, they're easy to understand. With enough practice, they'll become second nature. I love this game so much

[@darthelmet1]

On the custom difficulty settings, something I've been really appreciating lately have been the House Rules and NG+ Burdens for Rogue Legacy 2. Obviously not the first game to add either system, but a) I feel like the way they've been presented is great and b) They've made what would have probably been a game I'd have gotten too frustrated or bored with something I've had hours of fun with. a) The house rules do a few things to make them feel more ok to me than most difficulty systems. All of the settings make it clear what the devs intended as the default experience. They give recommendations on how to adjust them for good experiences, such as saying "Try starting this setting at 50% and slowly increase it as you feel comfortable." You can go lower than that, but the devs are trying to make it easy for the player to accept the compromise and not have to worry too much about if they're trivializing their experience in the process. Lastly, you can make most of these settings MORE difficult if you want a greater challenge. b) I can take or leave the options which modify enemy or player damage, those feel a bit too much like messing with the balance of the game, especially since so much of the gameplay loop is tied to RPG progression, being able to just freely shift the numbers around feels odd. BUT, what I do love are options which let you kind of design out some of the bits of the game that annoy you. For example I've turned off enemy contact damage because I've always kind of felt like that was a bit bullshit of a mechanic. I've also given myself a 50% time slow while aiming just so that the ranged classes don't feel much worse than the melee ones.

[@DesignDelve]

Thanks for bringing this design to my attention Darthelmet! i'll check this out!

[@xbox1445]

I finished Celeste, but it really did not resonate with me at the time. Maybe giving it a second shot with assists might help me get more involved with the story and take the time to listen to what it tells. Mechanically, it is funny how many considerations the developers have to the player on the whole and how tight and good it feels to play. Great video!

[@DesignDelve]

Super glad you enjoyed the episode José !

[@Sponsie1000]

assist mode in Celeste is rad because you can tweak your preferred level of assistance at any time as many times as you'd like, and the game is gonna give you full credit no matter how much or little you're using it. This way, you could start off playing with a certain level of assistance, and then adjust for individual screens (or even parts of individual screens) if you find parts too tedious or if you get in some sort of flow l'd recommend infinite stamina and lowering the speed to about maybe 80, from what l've seen that makes a huge difference to people who tend to struggle more with precision platforming :]

[@xbox1445]

@@DesignDelve I have just missed some episodes to avoid some spoilers, but I really love how in depth you go and on each one I always get so many little things that I missed on first play. ¡Saludos de México!

[@SolaScientia]

@@Sponsie1000 Oh, that's really cool that the assist mode can be so finely tweaked like that. I already like what was covered in the video about it, but seeing how in depth I can go with it is really neat and that makes me more tempted to try it now. I can handle difficult RPGs and FPS games, but platformers are a different beast for me and I run into problems with my reaction time in them.

[@sauerkrause_yep]

Please add captions to this video about the importance of accessibility

[@EfrainMan]

I don't know how you guys feel about channel cross pollination, but the channel PlayFrame played Celeste some time ago, but not by the channel's main host, but his wife, who had never played a platformer before. She made liberal use of the accessibility options, to still have a frustrating but positive blast playing that game. And as the playthrough went on, sure turned more and more of the options off, too. I think it's worth a watch just to get an idea of how these features might be helpful in letting people who might never try a genre find something the didn't know they'd love.

[@ZodiacShadow71]

Also, the frustrated dinosaur noises are well worth listening to.

[@awkwardsauceart]

I did the exact same thing as her actually!! I have problems with anxiety and harder games make me really nervous and frustrated, so I used the assist mode for basically all of my first playthrough? Except then it was super super fun, so I replayed it over and over, gradually turning the assist mode off for more and more levels, until I didn't even have to use it in the part with the monsters in the mirror temple :D now I've probably replayed it over twenty times and I can get through all of it and most of the b-sides without a hitch

[@piguyalamode164]

I also love how Celeste's assist mode really gives a third option to the whole "should all games have difficulty sliders" thing. Celeste lets you play the game how you want to play it, even if that is far outside of what the developers ever designed for. This is also why variants are super cool and a thing every game should have.

[@DesignDelve]

Completely agree, accessibility options should replace difficulty options imo.

[@elenafriese891]

@@DesignDelve actually... Can you imagine accessibility options COMBINED with Supergiant Games style granular difficulty control?

[@celestetwinsgaming]

I'm a simple person. A see a Celeste mechanics video. I thumbs it up

[@DesignDelve]

Respect

[@sophiathekitty]

My only complaint about Celeste is that they didn't have an assist option to show which way I'm going to go when I boost. Like I've only played on Xbox... And I had to get a media remote to use media apps because navigating with the controller was really frustrating (would go virtual when I'm trying to go horizontal) So I never had any confidence that I was going to dash in the direction I was trying to dash.... So I played with infinite dash and no death assists... Like even the slow mode assist doesn't help if dash is basically random.... I think this game is one of the best examples of assist options... But also I think they could do better and I wish that this is where the conversation was at.... Instead of debating about "should this game include an easy mode".... We could be discussing what assist options would make it's intended experience more accessible.

[@DesignDelve]

There is always room for improvement and a wonderful critique thank you Sophia !

[@ericwu6571]

theres dash assist

[@SolaScientia]

I'm tempted to try out Celeste now. I like the accessibility options you discussed at the end. Depending on the game, I have some issues with reaction timing. RPG and FPS style games are fine, but platformers can be an issue. I was doing fine in Hollow Knight until I got deeper into the Fungal Wastes and the Mantis City section. In that area I started dying a lot, and I do mean a lot. It's combo of the toxic pools of whatever that liquid is and various flying enemies and/or enemies shooting/spitting stuff at me that all end up meaning I lose track of what to focus on and usually fall to my death or get hit by something too many times and then die. The precision required, particularly when jumping off bouncy surfaces, means I usually take a lot longer to work my way through areas. Thanks to frustration I haven't touched Hollow Knight in probably close to a year now and it's a game I want to have fun with. I think part of what gets to me with most platformers, or at least in Hollow Knight, is how merely bumping into enemies or other hazards is enough to damage me. Now, this wasn't much of an issue back when I was a kid playing Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins (what little of it I did play) on my Gameboy Color, but I was younger with still decent reaction times to enemies and hazards. Perhaps I'm too used to RPGs and FPS games when bumping into an enemy doesn't automatically knock off a heart/skull/etc from my health meter.

[@420cactusgaming7]

Finally you're getting in on the game design videos as well, I love these. I don't think there's a way of making an unentertaining game design video. Edit: ok so it's not the first one, I just found the rest of them. Weird I haven't seen them before...

[@theescapist]

KZbin has a thing that doesn't like to notify people about new content while also wanting more ad revenue. Weird right? :P

[@DesignDelve]

@420CactusGaming Hope you enjoy and would love to hear your thoughts on my series bud!

[@stpirate89]

Great game, interesting video on it. You should include a link to the documentary you suggested in the description.

[@TimesRyan]

Yes sir. Please include the link for those who may not otherwise take the 5 seconds to search for it like us.

[@stpirate89]

@@TimesRyan if it was there I'd have clicked it to listen/watch it after this video, which was whilst I was cooking. Instead I didn't and let something else play for ease, and then I forgot about it. It's pretty common to link to things mentioned in a video, and in my opinion it's a good thing to do, not too dissimilar to citing something. You don't have to get arsey about it, I was just trying to give some constructive feedback.

[@TimesRyan]

@@stpirate89 I know. I'm agreeing with you. There is no link. There should be a link. Perhaps he meant to and just forgot. People like you and I will make the effort to go and search for the video, but many people will see no link and rather than making the small effort to find it, they'll just move on. You're the one getting arsey and attacking me even though I was supporting your comment.

[@stpirate89]

@@TimesRyan Apologies, I misread your reply, my fault entirely.

[@TimesRyan]

@@stpirate89 Thanks, buddy. We're on the same page :)

[@Mene0]

JM8? More JMGREAT amirite? Great video dude

[@DesignDelve]

Menega007? more like MeneGREAT007

[@girwanttaco]

That was beautiful, thank you for the introspection

[@DesignDelve]

You're more than welcome Son V !

[@TheCreepypro]

I have always sung the praises of this game and its design so it is nice to see this video do much the same

[@Lou-Mae]

Just wanted to add, in particular because of it being Pride month right now, that the game's developer expressed that working on this game helped them realise and come to terms with being transgender. They've said that, while they weren't explicitly aware that they considered Madeline to be trans during development, they realised afterwards that she obviously is, and that Madeline's story reflected their own experiences. :)

[@DesignDelve]

Lou-Mae wonderful thing to add and wish i knew sooner! would have added it to the video!

[@SlipthePsych]

Very cool video, Celeste is an incredible display of game design in many ways

[@DesignDelve]

Very cool comment

[@kikmi1900]

Might want to check your compressor and/or high pass filter. Top end frequencies are killing me.

[@DesignDelve]

Ty for the feedback bud

[@Gaia_BentosZX5]

Also goes extremely well with Aladdin's Prince Ali song.

[@vineheart01]

Celeste is a masterpiece of a game. Every aspect of this game is phenomenal and appeals to casual and hardcore gamers as the main game isnt really 'that' tough but the side stuff is brutal.

[@DesignDelve]

The side stuff broke me in half

[@Darkabyss290]

I don't agree that putting one action on multiple buttons is ever a good thing for accessibility over just letting the player REBIND THE FUCKING KEYS which has been a STANDARD in PC gaming FOR LITERALLY DECADES

[@King_Luigi]

Luckily that isn't the case for Celeste. While it does _start_ with some actions appearing on more than 1 button, you can go in the options before you've even started a new file and remap the buttons however you like. (Hell, they even made broke it down some updates later and added more functions that you could remap with it.)

[@sauerkrause_yep]

Could we get some subtitles on this video commending accessibility 🤔🤔

[@zachsmthinorother6574]

A comment for the algorithms! Day 6 of asking Yahtzee to review Monster Train

[@cyrundas6448]

Did he say all game should be doing this when talking about accessibility? I have rewound it 4 times and can't tell..

[@thelifesampler]

becoming super fan of this.

[@DesignDelve]

Made my day

[@ExploDjinn]

Unfortunately, I feel like there's a lot of people out there who don't want accessibility options in games. Seems like by gatekeeping some of the more difficult titles, it makes them feel special, since they're one of the chosen few able to enjoy it.

[@DesignDelve]

I try to stay on the fence with most things and let people have opinions but those types of people are... wrong

[@KatNoirZGK]

for real, and often it seems to be the more insecure people who do it. I rarely see people with top level gameplay (world records etc) think the accessibility options are a bad thing

[@Skenjin]

Accessibility and difficulty are two different things though. And some games lose all their meaning if the difficulty itself is what gets stripped away.

[@1423big]

>"hey watch this video we suggest!" >doesn't put it in the description box Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?!

[@jessetaylorkoechling]

At 3:32.... my most hated screen of the base game

[@conore5154]

As someone with 200 hours in this game I can confidently say that the controls of Celeste are some of the best of any game.

[@plushloler]

0:56 it's definitely not a puzzle platformer

[@joshuasgameplays9850]

Is there anyone that's against accessibility options in games? I mean unless you're an actual ableist I can't see why you would be?

[@BMVfilms]

What game is that in 3:38?

[@thelifesampler]

Katana Zero! It is a metroidvania like with some deccisions choices. I liked it doe I never played it again

[@co2_os]

Second one is Hades

[@Kaemble]

@@thelifesampler In what universe is Katana Zero a metroidvania?!?!?!? It is much more similar to something like Hotline Miami than any metroidvania.

[@elcheshireilustracion9396]

And I´m really happy that you point out that Hollow Knight needs accesibility options. For a long time I have called it near perfect, one of my favorite games, and I have been recommended it to everyone, and a lot of those people I recommended it to could not really get to it... because of how hard it is. And I think it´s a real shame people are missing on it, or other amazing gaming experiences because of the git gud crowd. And Celeste accesibility options are perfect. It´s a story that I´m sure a lot of people could relate to, and they are not turned away because of the difficulty.

[@greengear5622]

Honestly I'm not sure on this one, if they did initally have more difficulty options added to the game I would have probably found the game to hard initally, turned down the difficulty, stuck with that difficulty and got a much lesser experience for it. The difficulty of hollow knight pushed me to get better and is one of the main reasons it stays as my favorite video game. If there were options to lower, I would have and would have not have as much of an experience as I did with it being hard. I understand this is anecdotal but I guess my point is that more options is not purely better as some may have enjoyed some games more at different difficulty levers but were not sure changing it would do good.

[@elcheshireilustracion9396]

@@greengear5622 And I get it. It depends to person to person. I have yet to beat Celeste final DLC, because I don´t want to lower the difficulty (man, screw those jellyfish). But that´s me. Some other people may want to, and they might enjoy it that way. Or not. It´s a very personal choice, but having the option absolutely does not affect anyone. No one forced me to use accesibility options, but people may want to play the game with it. And I´m not gonna tell them that they won´t enjoy it the same way I do, because why? Who cares?

[@elcheshireilustracion9396]

@@greengear5622 A more recent example, to what you´re saying. Young souls. When I started the game a few weeks back I started it in the difficulty the devs mention was the intended difficulty, hard. And they were not kidding. So I dialed it back to regular... and I wasn´t enjoying the game. So I turned it back on. Nothing was lost there. I missed absolutely nothing for having the choice there, and I´m really happy that the option exist, because my younger nephew can enjoy the game without being constantly frustrated at it. And this is just for me and my nephew, I´m not even begining to mention the differently abled. To think that I could screw with the enjoyment of a game for someone else because I don´t want to see the option in the menu is bonkers to me. Accesibility options should be gaming standard.

[@greengear5622]

@@elcheshireilustracion9396 I guess I agree to the extent of accesibilty options not hurting anyone, I honestly don't care if devs put these options in or not, my point was that difficulty and accesibility is different for everyone and some people may loose on an experience despite the multitude of options as changing the difficulty mid-way can hurt the difficulty curve of the game and the experience as a whole. Regardless, I'm in the camp of let devs do whatever they want to do, ignoring the git gud crowd and the crowd asking for more options. A dev should be able to make a specific experience that they want to make. Difficulty, IMO is another piece like the genre of a game, it can and probably will naturally exclude potential audiences. I have found though that devs who aim at a specific audience like Hollow Knight or Dark Souls tend to get those large followings for a reason, cause they aimed for a specific experience and take it all the way. And I have respect for devs and companies who whish to make a game that may alienate some to make a piece of art. Apologies for my rambling, I kind of used this conversation to speak my opinion on the difficulty problem as a whole.

[@GildiaKinia]

I personally get a bit annoyed when people mistake accessibility with difficulty. These things are not the same. Forcing the devs to make the game easier and saying that's the way to make the game more accessible is nonsense. Disabled people may need a different way to interact with the game but it doesn't mean they're unable to overcome the game's challenges. Celeste having an assist mode is great. Scaling down the difficulty because it hurts someone's ego on Twitter is not great.

[@DesignDelve]

Based

[@Silverizael]

Though even when bringing up a lack of accessibility options in a game, the fans will usually still attack the person pointing that out anyways. For example, the titular game series always discussed on this subject is Dark Souls. Which has TERRIBLE accessibility options. In that there's basically none at all. Not even colorblindness options and, in most cases, not even simple control and button input keymapping options. And the devs have responded to anyone asking for such basic and simple accessibility options with just "Git Gud", which is echoed constantly by the highly toxic fanbase of the series.

[@GildiaKinia]

@@Silverizael I love Dark Souls and I think you're right. Accessibility options in DS are basically nonexistent. Which is a shame. However, I don't recall the devs responding with "git gud" to criticisms about accessibility specifically. Unless I missed something.

[@solwilkinson8551]

cool

[@DesignDelve]

cool comment

[@drdca8263]

9:52 “all games should be doing this” : this is where I very much disagree. I do of course agree that it being included in Celeste is commendable, but to say that *all* games should do, [basically any requirement], I don’t agree. I am for developer freedom. Even if someone wanted to make a game that is deliberately inaccessible, then, provided that they make the apparent before anyone would purchase it (or invest any substantial amount of time playing it, if it is a free game), then that’s their decision. Of course, we should want more games to be accessible, and games which are more accessible should be rewarded. But I strongly disagree with the idea that making one’s game accessible is a universal moral obligation. And, yes, I do aim to try to make the shmup I’m working on fairly accessible (am working on a key mapping menu, the development debug menu with cheats will be left in (but hidden..) etc.) But on the other hand, I’ve also tried a gameplay experiment which I think is interesting, and could be cool to extend, but which I suspect might be inaccessible to people with photosensitive epilepsy, in a way that couldn’t be fixed without totally compromising the idea of it (the idea is to make a game which video compression can’t handle effectively, showing almost nothing of what’s going on in recordings of it.) If we are just talking AAA games, then ok, *maybe* they should be considered to be obligated to prioritize accessibility? Maybe. But for games made by a single person, or a few people? No. It’s *good* for them to make it accessible! But I reject the idea that it is obligatory.