Why Does Gaijin Hate Germany? - War Thunder

[@NiMo1848]

The only video we won’t see is: “why does gaijin hate ussr”

[@doge_sevens]

real

[@Puffin_777]

Indeed. The counterpoint: Pantsir

[@artraudgaming3575]

yeah its russian company

[@WarHunter57]

Cause Gaijin entertainment is a Russian company

[@norfangl3480]

TEC will make a clickbaiting video of them lol.

[@Sansarii_Minecraft]

I totally love that my German mig23 at 9.7 has no missiles or flares and is consistently facing r-60s and aim9-ls at 10.3

[@Eclipse-lw4vf]

Same with Sweden.. J35a. But the other massive issue is the fact the A10 early and A6E have 0 business being 10.0 at least the a6e.. they shouldn’t be below 10.7 imo even if theh are slow they’ve extremely good missiles among other capabilities

[@Sentinel-Panzer]

I play a lot of the mig23bn and I 100% agree it is really fun at 9.7

[@fishermancounty777]

mig23bn is 2x faster than anything at 9.7 what do you want garbage early missle for anyway? thats why its 9.7 mig23 what does that not make sense? you shouldnt even have a 9.7 mig23 to begin w lol look at it that way..

[@foxom5176]

Can't forget the fact that the cl13 mk6 is subsonic and flareless and yet sits at a br of 9.3 and faces supersonics

[@crad5476]

a lot of planes between 9.0 and 9.7 have that problem. End of last month I bought the MiG 21S which only has AIM 9B's and no flares or chaff. Other planes also outspeed it quite easily so its not just germany.

[@RenesisActual]

Kurt Knispel is a great example of someone that should be added into the pages of history. He was the greatest tank ace of WW2 and opposed nazi ideology.

[@KorporalNoobs]

Also a great name.

[@A3Retard]

Don’t forget Joachim marseille

[@CrispyPratt]

​@@A3Retardyes that guy is a legend

[@Kurt_Knispel1072]

Fun fact, I prefer him than Michael Wittmann, like don't get me wrong, Michael Wittmann was a great tank ace but compared to him, Kurt Knispel was the true top tank ace, he helped some Polis to escape and which is why he didn't get the Iron Cross and that elite role over Wittmann.

[@DocLeQuack]

@@A3RetardErich Hartmann

[@conradbell4075]

The irony of Germanys performance in war thunder makes you think why the soviets get the most broken tech tree but in irl the leopard 2 could wipe the floor with a t-80

[@regular_guy_doing_stuff]

My guess is the balls-dropping that goes on in the ukraine conflict ^^ They need to push propaganda xD Maybe this is just a joke of mine, but tbh. I felt like since the outbreak of this aggression and the bad media/the bad results the russian military brings home, more and more people start noticing problems especially with the german tech tree.

[@edelwei4193]

Well, we all saw how the leo 2 performed in Ukraine

[@regular_guy_doing_stuff]

@@edelwei4193 This is a similar situation to the turkish army ranting about it. They just don't know how to use it. These tanks are most likely build for a different tactic then soviet/russian tanks, wich the ukrainian army used most of their time. Never the less: WarThunder is unbalanced beyond evil and it is a shame, because it is overall a nice game :/

[@yoshiegg95]

The worst part in all honesty is that you don't know if someone speaking for germany and making these points is meant seriously or in a mocking fashion since Gaijin truly hammered in the "Germany suffers" meme with the paril fools event, so now you can't go on to complain about this stuff without someone mocking you for it.

[@rendycoya]

i think its just some new german mains complaining all the time makes people think its dumb,even tho its true

[@velqt]

@@rendycoya it's not true. Germany is undoubtably the most powerful nation at top tier right now and has the best early mid tier. Only bad part is the leo1 at 8.0 but its not too bad

[@jacobbobmeboi5545]

@@velqthave you played the king tigers recently, or leopard a1a1.

[@velqt]

@@jacobbobmeboi5545 early mid tier through to the king tigers are actually great. The leo1 at 8.0 is sub optimal but playable and idk about the a1 as i havent recently played it. All of that is more than made up for by the absurdly powerful top tier though

[@rammywarrior4033]

@@jacobbobmeboi5545 7/7 battles lost with the king tiger with 5+ kills, 1 or less deaths per match. 6,7 Germany suffers.

[@ryman8989]

Light vehicles are nice and everything, but with gaijin shrinking maps and eliminating certain spots and paths, thus turning matches into 1 to 3 lane head ons, it's getting difficult to use different play styles. And it's not just in regards to Germany. It's everyone

[@cc-bk3tx]

But mah brawler

[@marcoh.3467]

Bro i was shocked when I discovered they have cut the Hangar area of of Normandy! That's ridiculous! I can relate to, if they make tricky positions into death zones somhow, but tank tactics requiring the ability to flank the other tanks or get behind them eventually!

[@hasamanda3687]

open maps lead to spawn camping from minute 1. if theres a flank a tank moving 100km/h is on it and is already on the way to spawn camp you even if they are losing

[@cc-bk3tx]

@@hasamanda3687 that's litterly the same for city maps. Advance in the Rhine is a spawn camping heaven and all that map is cqc brawling

[@BurnedDruid11]

Yup now Italy is fucking unusable

[@jonathankuykendall7622]

This isn't just a German problem it's every nation. For instance with America you've got an Abrams from 1999 fighting soviet vehicles made in the 2010s

[@Red_Four]

Every nation except for Russia

[@FlyingOstridge]

With Britain you also have Challengers from the 1980's fighting modern stuff that's also from the 2010's. And planes from the 1960's fighting planes from the 80's

[@quan-uo5ws]

I mean if they add the abrams sepv3 with m892a4 it would completely destroy any vehicle in the game easily lol

[@theDarkside798]

not to forget russia has the most cas options. and most of them you can get by just opening your wallet.

[@aniditys]

but atleast you have more than 1 or 2 tanks germany dont.

[@heinreiners198]

It is really bad that Gaijin doesnt want to give Germany any of the great German vehicles for example the BMP 2M has 4 missles and apfsds rounds and the PUMA only has its 30 mm like in what world does that makes sense??

[@tiberiudodu2717]

And the cannon from the BMP-2M has much more rate of fire and about the same pen just with like 10 or 20 mm less than the puma

[@ttonin33]

@@tiberiudodu2717 Your go gonna Pen in the same aria anyway so the post pen from the higher firerate is notisible

[@mat-vl5mb]

i think personally its not a good idea, i mean , more rockets and ATGM's in the game ? just will make it more annoying to play

[@eagelseye8089]

​@@mat-vl5mbWe talk about Spike Atgm. I played it on the Freccia and it isent really good. In close combat it dosent hit most of the times and long range the tanks have enough cover to not be lockable. And even if you get to lock one, they will often drive behind cover and the lock ends or hit a tree. ATGMs especially after the last update are at least in top tier where you would end with Puma S1 not as effective as the APFSDS rounds.

[@soupenjoyer6173]

laughs in 9040 series of vehicles

[@_Beans_]

the panther 2 also filled an important niche in the german tech tree. It bridged the gap between the Panther F and the Leopard 1.

[@1NSANEx]

To me the final nail the german coffin is the fact the Swedish got not one but 2 STRV-122s with the slapper-jacket round that's almost as strong as the 2a6s DM53 while having better armor. One would assume the 2a6 atleast has the mobility advantage since it's lighter but it's actually the STRV that's faster for some unkown reason (maybe bug). Don't believe me? Look up the Shooting range #345 when they tested all top MBTs versus each other. I asked Gaijin in the coments why but got no answer =((. JeRmAnY SuFFurZ indeed my friends

[@BrownCow445]

i just hate that they get a better gepard, i chose germany simply because of wanting the gepard, and whn i get it, i see that sweeden had a better one.. well, 600hrs' i will never get back

[@crispyfritz533]

Leopard 2 PSO, Leopard 2A4/A6CAN, Leopard 2A7, and Boxer Skyranger would be great additions for Germany

[@Niko_rj]

you forgot about Leopard 2A6CANT

[@_kampfkartoffel2195]

​@@Niko_rjgive me my panzerhaubitze!

[@Niko_rj]

@@_kampfkartoffel2195 panzerhaubitze, Krab, 2s19 msta, m109 paladin...

[@_kampfkartoffel2195]

@@Niko_rj yes we need those Things bigger gun= bigger fun

[@TEAserOne]

Boxer Skyranger isn't yet bought by the Bundeswehr, so wouldn't make sense to add.

[@sgtdex3634]

Finally someone talking about germany suffering and the removal of german vehicle while others can keep theirs i wish some other youtubers can address this aswell

[@beherith2874]

Suffering from success

[@INSANESUICIDE]

​@@beherith2874Yeah, Germany suffers from having consistently the highest win rate right? Absolute clown 😂 🤡

[@armoredlumberjack1999]

@@beherith2874 Its always fun how players from a nation with less vehicles (Chadmany) still manage to win vs other nation players (russia/murica) with more stuff, and then people say german players are bad...idk bout that one anymore

[@beherith2874]

@@armoredlumberjack1999 implying less vehicles overall is automatically a disadvantage, and yes things like the M48 and the MBT-70 where prime examples that their player statistics where and probably are still lower

[@armoredlumberjack1999]

@@beherith2874 Yes, less vehicles are a disadvantage, im not implying, im saying it, also the m48 and mbt70 are garbage imo

[@several6589]

Im honestly surprised to hear this take from a major content creator. Usually german mains are, like as you said, the punching bag of the community. Thank you for addressing this.

[@davidmartin4812]

Give me my hunter back you thieving kraut bastard

[@_Crimon]

Its refreshing having someone actually present the issues germany faces instead of the usual ironic "GeRmaNy SufFeRs" nonesense and chocking it up to german players just being bad, i dont see how that helps anything other than confirming personal biases. Keep up the good work man

[@SilentVoid_]

Yeah that's really annoying having to hear others call us "wheraboo" or "Germany suffers" when Germany actually is suffer but make it look like it's perfectly fine

[@BugattiONE666]

Germany has the strongest tanks in the game, this breeds the worst playera, hence why people CONSTANTLY wine and winge on the forums wanting the Tiger at 5.0

[@doge_sevens]

@@BugattiONE666 russia has the strongest vehicles in the game tf you mean

[@tot1430]

Yea … but Germany suffers😂

[@doge_sevens]

@Luka_H all tiers, I have up to russia rank 6 and they all dominate their respective brs (mostly)

[@splatteryou_2351]

I've noticed alot since the latest br change is Germany seems to be getting a hell of a lot of uptiers past 5.7 area

[@Dekujunge]

they should add the Leo 2 A7 also the PzH 2000 and Boxer (the boxer would be a cool toher kind vehicle as Armored Car) playing 11.0 with germany feels sad you always get outcountert. like planes on this br just bomb them away. ALso i feel like after the rocket update the Roland is shitty against AIr so AA's are bad at this level

[@Dekujunge]

also ask at 9:58 mark the skin for the Marder is it a comunity one?

[@vaclavsefcik4169]

Germany should also get Eurofighter

[@oskarhoffmann8312]

​@@Dekujungecustom. So'n Afghanistan Marder 1a1 skin

[@Dekujunge]

@@oskarhoffmann8312 damm that's sad i want it ingame

[@oskarhoffmann8312]

@@Dekujunge gibt's bei war Thunder live

[@dotEXCEI_]

I just keep playing my E-100 at 7.7. One of the most fun tanks ingame. You can see the fear and panic in your opponents eyes through your Monitor when you roll around the corner.

[@Captain_975]

Sounds like such a fun tank, I wonder how i can get it myself it seems like such a nice addition to this free to play game :)........

[@slntarts4163]

it's such a cool tank too bad no one else can have it

[@xeon39688]

Fun and all untill ATGMs fly towards you

[@dotEXCEI_]

@@xeon39688 thats why you stick to houses and streets ✌️

[@mlc36tva14]

Ngl the czech tiger ace is someone ive wondered why we have never got as a pages of history.

[@magnum6763]

because he died fighting for nazi germany.

[@threadworm437]

Because he is not Russian or american

[@luciferceoofhell1740]

Would be nice if DM 53 had real penetration stats (740mm at 2km) so like 800~ on point blank

[@eagelseye8089]

Or a nerf for the russian ammo, to achieve some balance in top tier. At the moment a T-80BVM has more survivebility due to the nerfed ammo although it never had this in reality

[@magnum6763]

DM53 would be more like M829A2 at around 740 w/ L44, and comparable to M829A3 at around 800 w/ L55. It would basically be a major buff to NATO rounds.

[@luciferceoofhell1740]

@@chadtheboris care to explain?

[@waldek7772]

@@eagelseye8089 t80bvms have been penetrated on the relikt ufp by ukrainian tanks irl and knocked out because of this, what a surprise that this glorious relikt doesnt work anywhere near as well IRL as in wt

[@magnum6763]

@@waldek7772 that can be explained by ERA not always detonating IRL like it does in WT. If it doesnt actually detonate its literally worthless.

[@synalra2388]

I came to this video expecting a mocking or meme approach but you actually made very valid points and I'm happy about that. While I don't always agree with your points and opinions, never change TEC. You often bring up stuff nobody else does

[@mrmoac3805]

He should change, a lot. His takes are mostly crap.

[@rennscott5808]

I mean bitching that the tiger 2 has to fight Pershing variants instead of strictly 75mm jumbos is peak germany suffers meme

[@bencurran3204]

@@rennscott5808 real

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

@@rennscott5808 Unironically jumbo is better then pershing.

[@Speedycar100]

@@rennscott5808yeah but you can atleast agree that we should have a new leopard by now

[@SilentVoid_]

Also another thing where Germany suffers is the Me262 lines, i know there were no other jets Germany have fought with their 262s but the other early jets are post war jets that have learned from the 262 and have improved engines which allows other jets to be faster than the 262 and outrun or outclimb them, even worse are those F-84s with air spawn that RUSH to the enemy airfield where the 262 when stock literally struggle to gain speed and altitude and destroy them while they're taking off that's how unbalanced it still is for the Me 262s at their BR

[@quan-uo5ws]

Yeah man me262 should fight props lmao

[@SilentVoid_]

i would be glad if they at least remove the air spawn for the F-84s that rush to the germans

[@optimusprimeminister2672]

Complaining about the airspawn is valid but to act like there are no peer to German ww2 planes just because the allies didn't rush their jets into service is just wrong. The Meteor is older than the me 262 and did see some service. The vampire first flew in 1943 and was introduced into service less than a year after ww2 ended. The F-80 is about the same age as the me 262 and was put into service in 1945. There are copy pastes of 262s airframe and engine in the Soviet and Japanese tech trees aswell. On top of that a bunch of early Soviet jets are literally just German ww2 engines put in Soviet ww2 prop airframes. All early jets have issues with acceleration and climb rate, it is not an exclusively German problem which makes me suspect you haven't played the other nation's tech trees at around that BR if you think Germany is at such a disadvantage.

[@SilentVoid_]

@@optimusprimeminister2672I infact didnt play other nations tech trees because I still didn't finish the German one because if the bad grind before they finally updated it so it wasn't really worth playing other trees if i couldn't even finish my tree

[@commandoepsilon4664]

The British Meteor was in service with the RAF at the same time the Me 262 was in use, in no way was it a post war jet. They were developed at about the same time too, Germany was just more desperate so their jet saw front line service first, where as the Meteor was held away from the front line so they wouldn't be shot down and captured by Germany.

[@moguntius5458]

I really needed the longest time to realise you were not talking about the PUMA but the Puma, was really wondering why the PUMA fights against the T34 and KV-1. XD

[@arnelio357]

Im forced to fight t-34,kv-1 and even sometimes kv-85's with puma sadly

[@KrausDiver22]

Great comment ! Fully agree with you. Also they nerf the German AA tech tree and it was THE BEST in the whole game. I started playing WT in 2013 (10 years now) because of the German Tech Tree. It seems to me they (Gaijin) want us to move to USSR or the newer countries. They use Germany to GET PLAYERS who want to play the Tigers and Panthers BUT when people start getting frustrated they change countries. It’s a shame, just as you said , Germany used to have some very fun to play and enjoyable vehicles. Thanks for the video

[@D3STROY3R779]

can confirm this was me lmao, although i managed to commit myself to getting the 2a6 and then last week the t80bvm

[@TEAserOne]

Yeah, but I think in general this isn't a German Tree problem, but mainly a BR compression issue! In The Current System lowering the BR of the King Tiger would just be unfair for the vehicles below it, I mean god willing let us now lower the Tigers BR, or it would be able to face 4.7 Tanks, which would be crazy. Gaijin needs to decompress the BR by making top tier like 20.0 instead of 11.0! That way the BRs will make sense again!

[@INSANESUICIDE]

​@@TEAserOneThe argument against it I see is waiting time between matches, I would rather wait 1-3 minutes for an even match where it is mostly based on skill, not if I am lucky with a good lineup and get downtiered and sealclub or uptiered and slaughtered. Hell, I would happily wait 5 min between matches, already do in sim fairly often. I miss the old historical and realistic modes, heli pvp, sim not being a event..

[@TEAserOne]

@@INSANESUICIDE i mean currently waiting times are pretty much non existant With the amount og daily players they could totally decompress the BRs, the reason they dont isnt queue times, it is because it will make their premium vehicles less OP, which means less money earned for them.

[@davidmartin4812]

You people are delusional

[@therighteousmallard8621]

I was so pissed when I found out about the Swiss hunter not being in the British tree

[@claudioquintas4281]

As someone that mains germany, but also has the american, english and russian tech trees upgraded with a lot of pain, i resonate with all your views. When i argue that germany should get a new version of the top tier leos ppl just bitch that german players should learn to play.

[@bamboo7563]

I agree with you Germany should get a new leopard variant to balance it a bit but Germany is good even at top tier

[@doughnut3508]

Germany has the least amount of mbts at top tier with only 2 which is stupid regarding all the leo variants being out there

[@cornersofromania5826]

as someone that 6-7 years ago started playing war thunder with the german tech tree while choosing arcade matches i can say that when i hit 6.7 i got hit by a wave of continuos bad games (witch happen to 6.7 non premium russia too) War thunder isnt only plagued with bad tank placement decisions, even maps have huge issues (for example the bad caps of Hurtgen forest and the Carpathian map to began with) also not adding that american light tanks and the heavy tanks (those been t26e5,t32,t34) have such speed and armor buffs (mainly heavies, witch not even the 100 mm gun of OBJ 248,witch is a 6.7, could crack them,remember i am arcade player) i only HOPE some of those issues would slowly fade out, but knowing Gaijin mentality not even at the moment the game would "die" they wouldnt fix it

[@TEAserOne]

BR compression is what is causing everyone to have bad times after 5.7 And sadly the game won't ever die, unless a competitor comes out and let's be real WoT is not a competitor

[@fox_evo3267]

Oh gee I wonder why ''winks at premium tanks''

[@gehcy_]

i like how gajin is adding a funny ammount of soviet experimental tanks that only 1 was ever or even never actually built (for example the is6 was never built it was the object 252 which was the sort of base idea of what the is 6 was meant to look like but it was NOT the is 6 ( the photos of is 6 are of the mockup)

[@agentgollem1919]

can say the same thing about germany, pretty sure only 1 e-100 and 2 maus were ever created

[@SkilledKill]

​@@agentgollem1919yes and they have removed almost all of those type of vehicles from german tree. Russia still has them.

[@adhx7506]

Really great video man! Thanks for giving this problem a platform on your channel!

[@et9643]

The presumptions that the TIger II should only fight shermans and "even stuff like Jumbo's" as if the Jumbo is capable of fighting the Tiger II in a head-to-head fight is laughable. The only way shermans can really fight Tiger IIs is with APCR (even then only turret shots if lucky) or catching a tiger II by its flank. The T26s and T34s are absolutely needed to help balance the fights against the Tiger II. However we can all agree constantly facing 7.7 in 6.7 vehicles is fraustrating. Maybe the game needs BR locks so that 6.7 doesnt go past 7.0.

[@threadworm437]

Agree I love fighting T26s and T34s in the Tiger II but when i see the impenetrable 7.7 t32 every other game and a bunch of heatfs and atgms slinging at me every game it's a bit much

[@streetfighter2471]

You know a situation is bad when TEC has to make a video about it.

[@TanyaDK]

I am glad a youtuber is saying exactly what I have said for years about the bias of who keeps fake vehicles and who doesn't.

[@thegrimrealityofficial]

Fun fact, the IS-6 was also never finished, there's not even proof of a prototype being finished as the project was abandoned after it turned out that the transmission was horrid. The IS-6 only came about, solely as an idea, to test the transmission and as stated, both projects had been abandoned. As I stated, not even proof of a prototype, though there is a single source, out of the 20ish things I looked into, saying there was a prototype.

[@thesheriffmt]

1:45 the American T34 was BARELY a post ww2 tank, as it was just a years or so late

[@SilentVoid_]

I gotta agree with the part how gaijin instantly nerfes Germany as soon as people complain when Germany gets something new like how they nerfed the reload rate of the Leo2a6 but when RUSSIA gets the most op shit and with the addition of the pantsier which completely broke top tier they almost do nothing about it or barely nerf russia since more people buy russian stuff than they buy other nations stuff, now the russians have insane cas advantage in top tier i tried to complain about it but people have been talking me down as if Germany was a insane superpower in the game. Not to mention how they even justify uptiering the PUMA which doesn't have ATGMs but are completely fine with the BMP2M annihilating everything in its Br

[@MrWorldwide00]

The Snail refuse to let russian stuff seem inferior. It is a noticeable issue, game developers letting their bias effect their game

[@dxhunter9170]

You are missing the point of these videos

[@SilentVoid_]

@@dxhunter9170wdym

[@kommandantkillcode]

The BMP-2M got uptired too btw. Also, considering what TEC has said recently in the past, this video is almost certainly a joke or satire taking the stance of the average German main. Some of the things said are reasonable, like with all of these videos, but a lot of it is just funny to even hear coming from TEC. I’ll be sure to ask him on stream if it is actually satire. I’ll get back to you with that when I can.

[@SilentVoid_]

@@kommandantkillcode Oop, that's good news and sure i would like to know if that was actually a joke or not.. i feel like scul bow for believing this was real-

[@Niko_rj]

4:45 he is so skilled and skill issued at same moment

[@HussainAli-pi2gp]

I played Germany recently and lost every game with 4 to 6 kills and just lose … I can’t play it

[@Homa_8]

pretty historically accurate eh bro you got many kills but you lost the war

[@AssassinIsAfk]

Germany is fucking easy to play, however I do just camp at 6.0 with the M109G, panther A and G

[@99redpontoons]

The BR increases of especially light vehicles of other trees tend to coincide with the Russchimps getting mad when they're not completely stomping. Biggest paypigs in the game, so of course Gaijin is going to act on only their complaints.

[@trin162]

Finally someone else says it!

[@hotsnow5042]

Great video, EC! As a German main since launch, it is almost a meme now for community members to hate on our complaints. Nice to see a major KZbinr feeling the frustration in a video, so, thank you, Dude!

[@bamboo7563]

Well sorry to break it for you but he is also making fun of German mains in this video because he made a video about Sweden even though Sweden is one if not the best Nation to play (except Russia but this will fade away soon).

[@hotsnow5042]

@@bamboo7563 He makes videos... I liked this one... Have a good day, pal

[@insainetrooper7489]

I've recommended so many vehicles to the game on forms with some/no support. The Paul defiant, Manchester bomber, M7 Priest and more. I even suggested WW1 era tanks and aircraft as a gimmick for everyone to have fun with while paying tribute to those that pioneered it all.

[@aniditys]

Also leopard 2a6 is suposed to have 3rd gen thermals but still have 1st gen like leopard 2a4 :/ they could also add canadian version of leo 2a6 wich had more armour. or they could add with aps or lws

[@doge_sevens]

i would KILL to have the Leo 2a6m Can ngl lmao

[@Canadian_sheep]

As a Canadian I would love to see this addition

[@AdmiralRaeder5228]

No. The 2a6 has only gen 1 thermal for the gunner and gen 2 for Commander. The 2a7 has gen 3 for gunner and Commander

[@aniditys]

@@AdmiralRaeder5228 2a6 is equiped with two 3rd gen Thermals in real life.

[@aniditys]

@@doge_sevens yea me to

[@AdeptusAmogus]

*First complaint is historical accuracy* You could just say you want to seal club 75mm Shermans in a Tiger 2 in a lot less than a 12 minute video. 12 minutes of "this is unfair" without even a mention of WHY German vehicles are set where they are in the tree. Most of Germany's issues steam from its players playing poorly, and it reflecting in BR changes.

[@TitanTankerGaming]

Fr, he is the prime example of whiny german mains lol

[@weybye91]

So that's why German WW2 tanks are facing post war tanks. Year that seems fair, to have WW2 tanks face tanks they can't pen, due to ammo wasn't made for post war tanks

[@AdeptusAmogus]

@weybye91 if you're talking Germanys 6.7-7.0 lineup of Heavy/Super Heavy tanks, then yea, they face tanks at 7.7-8.0 with HEAT and APDS. Guess what those tanks don't have though? Armor. So if you can't pen something like a M48, FV4202, or T-54 in a Tiger 2, that's you just being bad at the game.

[@weybye91]

@@AdeptusAmogus so as long as the Russians, Americans and Brits get to face WW2 tanks in cold war tanks it's fine, but god forbid, that a Russian t-34 faced a tiger

[@adsd8413]

If historical matchmaking existed early Pz4s would fight early Kv1 and T34s, and latest Pz4s would fight IS2, T34-85, T44. Leopard 1/A1A1 would fight T62, T64A. M60a1 would be fighting T64A. It would go worse than that if soviet prototypes were added. Cant imagine M60A1 fighting pre-serie T80 version from 1971, M60a1 wouldnt be out yet, Leopard A1A1 would take 4 more years to come out. That would be the real issue, not the vehicles fighting something thats not historical. Just imagine T10M with stab and good cannon fighting M48.

[@DenshyOwO]

I wonder why they haven't added the PUMA with the Stinger Missiles yet. It would have been a perfect fit with the BMP-2M and the M3A3 Bradley.

[@mehmeh9714]

stop spreading stupidity pls.

[@dotMSOffice]

Mainly because the PUMA never had SAMs. But the PUMA does have ATGMs like the Spike-LR.

[@DenshyOwO]

@@dotMSOffice I just remembered it having rockets starting with an S ^^ If they are called "Spike-LR" I will stand corrected :]

[@jan_direction8146]

Oh ok so the IKV 72 should fight the abrams? Going off of your idea of fighting their era.

[@IkeanCrusader1013]

Ha, not a germany issue, in fact germany gets some of the most handholding, USA and France/Japan get it the worst. The T32s which were from 1944/45 are 7.3/7.7, M46 is a 7.0, the T29 is a 7.0, M4A3E2 76 is a 6.3, T25 still missing it's stabilizer but moved to 6.3, the Bradley is missing it's I-TOWs and got moved up to 8.3 now and is STILL MISSING MANUAL LAUNCHER DEPLOY. The M60A2 and M551 are both neutered since gaijin still won't fix the HEAT-MP round and give it proper post-pen and explosive effect for overpressure and even then they don't deserve 8.3 especially with the M551 lacking it's M551A1(TTS) mod which it's needed badly for years. The US also gets the worst variants of it's vehicles for both air and ground, the US M36B2 is the worst variant in the game even though the US used the improved versions, US gets the worst models of the catalinas and still lacks the PBN-1 Nomad, we get a worse KPz-70 at the same BR, the M3A3 is fucking 10.0 now don't make me laught about the PUMA and Begleit, the fucking T95E1 is now 8.3, we get the worst M48 variant, still no M103A2, the HSTV-L is 11.3 and the reload is still longer than it should be meanwhile it takes an average of 4 rounds to ammorack a T-64/72/80/90 and oh yeah it takes an average of only 3 to ammorack a leopard 2 and the fuel tanks on the side eat the whole shell half the time and then you get 1-tapped, oh how about the M1128 which is still lacking it's -8 gun depression for the sides and rear and doesn't have the right engine still. oh and we get the worst kits for our Abrams models too with shit ammo that they never even used half the time, although most of that has very recently been fixed (after years lmao). Almost all of our shit is overtiered because germany players whined until it got unrealistically nerfed and uptiered to the point where they could just brainlessly curbstomp, AND have their vehicles downtiered at the same time lmao. Hmmm why is it that the M4A3E2 76 is a 6.3 but the Tiger E is 5.7 and the goddamn panther is a 5.3, same BR as the 75 M4A3E2 btw which can be lolpenned by the panther, and meanwhile germany gets the best SPAA in the game up until top tier, although the flarakrad seriously needs to be fixed cause that's just sad. Oh and remember the ferdi and jagdtiger are 6.7 while the T32 is a 7.3 and T32E1 is 7.7, and the T26E1-1 is at the same BR as them and the koenigstiger, what a joke. Also, are you seriously complaining about the absolutely cracked DF105, and the JaPz.K A2(which is also amazing btw, I play the SK-105 tho cause I prefer French tree), and oh let's not forget germany getting just a straight up better U-SH. The only complaint I had about germany when I mained them was how boring the vehicles felt because of how ridiculously meta they were, and they just incentivize hard camping and scummy gameplay for the most part, and then once you finally get that guy who's been sniping you from his spawn the whole game he spawns in a fucking 262/229 to revenge kill you and go on to wipe even more of your team uncontested. because they have a kugelblitz annihilating your friendly aircraft as soon as they get into the battlefield. The only german vehicles I still play are the Turm III (which is not overpowered thank you very much, it's a glass cannon with a massive 1-shot profile, tons of ammo on one side of the huge "kick me" turret and then 2/3 crew lined up perfectly for you to hit on the other side, oh and if you shoot through the hull there's a good chance spall will still det ammo or kill one of the turret crew as well meaning death), and the Leopard 2K which should get DM63 for the 20mm, same with the AMX-30s and KPz/MBT-70. Ok now that I've vented a bit: The PUMA does not deserve 10.0 unless it gets it's spikes, begleit is fine where it is that thing is nuts, Marders should get Milan 2s and their capacity is incorrect (IIRC they're missing like 3 missiles in stowage), the panther II should come back along with the tiger II 105, the Maus wasn't removed cause it was too OP, it was removed because it just... sucked, I mean you get uptiered and you get curb stomped, you get full downtiered and you can maybe do some curbstomping yourself if you're lucky but even then probably gonna get railed unless you can just 1v1 everything and there's no CAS. You have no idea how many maus I kill with just an SU-100P or super pershing on the regular, the maus is just so slow and the ammorack is so easy to boink once you know where it is (and don't forget track and barrel torture lol). Also the entire IS series is just horrid with volumetric now, you can shoot a tiger's mantlet perfectly and if he just swings his turret a tiny bit the side edge of your 122 shell gets clipped by the shield and completely negated, and then the tiger can just 1-tap you through the UFP/LFP or turret no problem, plus the reload is not only unrealistic but also unbalanced since you get worse pen and lower velocity and the volumetric fuckery and have worse armor and terrible gun depression (which makes a huge difference) and can just get slapped easily by a tiger II P at the same BR for some reason lol. the IS-3 is decently cheeky usually, but oh yeah there's the fact that volumetric still fucks you over hard and with the massive barrel profile and long reload 90% of the time you just get the barrel shot out and rushed/murdered. IS-4M? oh yeah that's fucking 7.7 even though literally any +6.0 can dunk on it still, deserves 7.0 along with the T32/E1, and both the IS-4M and T32/E1 need their reload buffed by a good margin with that move to 7.0 for both balance and realism, not only that but the 90mm T41 shot and BR-471D are both majorly underperforming in armor penetration and need a buff.

[@magnum6763]

the only thing that i dont really see as true is the part about the TURM 3 not being OP. Used properly it can basically dominate everything. The 30mm is also lethal. frankly its one of the best premiums in the game, and having the weaknesses is just balancing it.

[@michalis7023]

Mostly agree. I mostly play Germany and Soviets and I can tell you the US gets the short end of the stick in every case. Germany is full of the worst players in the game without a doubt and thats why they all whine. I think the TURM III is OP though.

[@IkeanCrusader1013]

The TURM III is extremely capable but it's extremely easy to kill, at the same time, the turret traverse is quite slow and the elevation is also very limited, and again it is a giant bullseye for crit/kill, basically anywhere you shoot will either severely cripple or outright kill it in one shot, it has a rather large profile in general and is quite loud, but again a single round from just about any SPAA can kill you, hell you can be killed frontally by a single 14.5, also the 30mm can just be 7.62d out of action. It's not light tank fast either, just a fast medium. Now, it is an absolutely amazing fun vehicle, but It's not overpowered, I slam them constantly in my Warrior, and often times I can get more kills with just the 30mm on my Warrior than using thr TURM III, but again it's all about the situation and skill of the user, the TURM III just happens to have a very high skill ceiling.

[@magnum6763]

@@IkeanCrusader1013 yea, it has its vulnerabilities, and its strengths. but yea it eventually comes to the player. an extremely skilled player will be able to negate these vulnerabilities by sheer skill, whilst a lvl 7 potato wont be able to.

[@Mort221]

Bro, what are these takes. 0:40 'Germany faces tanks not of its era.' - Meanwhile the Jpz 4-5, a late '60s to '80s design sits at 6.3 against mid-late war tanks. 1:40ish 'having to fight cold war vehicles' - see point above. If referring to the M-51 with the HEAT-Fs comment, most people recognise it is undertiered. 1:50 'Not fair for America to fight American T34's' - Why not? They were designed specifically to fight Tigers and Panthers. 2:30 'No new top tier MBT's for a while' - Because the other nations were playing catchup? Also Germany is still in a very strong place and 2A6's/5's are a very potent match for Russia top tier considering most maps have hills and Russia is famously not very depressed. 3:25 'PUMA going up' - Yes, because almost EVERYTHING in the 7.0-10.0 range got adjusted. Also because it has insane survivability for what it is. Do you not remember the damn things bursting into flames and just running away while ammo cooked off? 3:45 'Begleit going up' - Yes, because it has Proxy, SAP, Missiles, IR tracking and lead? If anything I'm honestly surprised it isn't higher. Anything air - I'm not commenting because I don't play it. 6:30 ' JaPz.K A2 - While it would've made more sense in France, you're complaining that Germany got a light tank at 8.7 that has LRF, 400mm HEAT-FS, 346mm APFSDS and Gen TWO Thermals? 7:20 'History pages icons stuff' - Fair point, but don't expect Gaijin to be apolitical. 8:00 'Low tier Germany facing T34's and KV-1s.' - You forget it gets IMMEDIATELY balanced out by stuff such as the Panther existing at 5.3 While Russia has 85mms and has to weakpoint aim. Let's not mention USA, right? How about the Nashorn with nearly 240mm of pen? 9:20 'Panther 2, Tiger 105 and FlakPz 341' - Yes because they were 100% paper and the first two would never have physically worked in their format presented in the game? 10:20 'Maus' - Yeh because if it goes lower it's damn near invicible. If it goes up it's hot garbage. It's literally unbalancable due to design. Fair point on the IS-6 though. The M56 is balanced by the fact that an errant sneeze kills the crew. 11:10 'Tiger UHT' - Bro, it is still INCREDIBLY strong due to PARS LR rockets. It's pretty much invincible to SPAA if the pilot has even half a brain due to the PARS being Fire and Forget. You have done nothing but focus on perceived negatives and slights yet forget just how broken the German tree is in places. The TURM III at 8.0 (Now 8.3) was turbo broken and hell, still is. Ground at 6.3 is super overpowered yet because Germany mains are so bad, the 76mm Jumbo from USA got moved UP to 6.3. The same BR as the Tiger 2 P because Germans can't aim for a weak spot. How about the Wiesel's existing, the 1A2 in particular. The Ozelot with FIM-92K's? Gerpards and the guns being super broken and can straight up fight equal-BR Soviet MBT's AND WIN. How about the new Rakentenautomat which has the same launcher as a USH, but TWICE the ammo capacity and is damn near just as stealthy? You're brain dead bro.

[@wulfthofengaming457]

American t-34 2 prototypes never got past trials

[@Mort221]

@@wulfthofengaming457 Regardless of whether or not they got past the trials, mainly because the program eventually processed into the M103 which saw active service, the T29/34 was designed specifically to combat the threat posed by the German heavy tanks.

[@wulfthofengaming457]

@@Mort221 sorry for late reply so prototypes of the tanks built only went far as trials never saw combat so you never knew if they could do the job they were designed for. And you think they should be in game when they never saw combat? That's the point he was making other nations get tanks that never entered the war and everyone fine with that but then everyone complains why germany gets these tanks and then they get pulled out of game while these same tanks for other nations still in game.

[@kleikPL1]

now imagine if things were balanced by era: a whole team of tigers vs a whole team of m22 (remember, it was introduced in 1942), or a whole team of tiger2 vs a whole team of shermans. If you want to make it balanced by era, mak it balanced by numbers of vechicleees spawned, for example 1 tiger2 (487 made total) for every 13 sheermans (6748 made in early variants), not so cool anymore right? spookston has a very cool series that shows that historical acuity is a bad thing in video games

[@trueweapon2349]

Was here to say this.

[@roguecrowdjl160]

The point this guy was trying to make was that tanks should be going up against what they were designed for. Tiger's were designed in WW2 to fight WW2 tanks

[@robiiify]

they could still face experimental tanks like the is series or just cost more to spawn like you get one tiger or 3 sherman respawns easy pecy everybody is happy

[@agentgollem1919]

I highly agree with you, people who keep saying that br should be removed are complete idiot who don't understand balancing because they play op vehicles

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

@@agentgollem1919 We had SIM lists for allowed vehicles for very long time already. And they are more then enough to replace BR.

[@milesseventh1640]

Oh you can't be serious complaining about not being able to abuse jumbos in your königstiger. If you want "historically accurate" battles so much just go play simulator battles. I'd prefer the game to be balanced.

[@TitanTankerGaming]

Fr, this entire essay is just an excuse to sealclub against Shermans that can't fight back lol

[@miatamadness9535]

As a German main I've had to stop playing them. Geraman teams arent great, we have some really odd BR gaps and with so many thanks constantly moving around or being nerfed ive got fed up of trying to make line ups. Don't get me wrong, other natios also suffer in other areas I.e Britian (not having fun witg them) but as one of the big original nations...they are getting shafted in the high BRs :/ game just needs a complete overhaul, decompression and rebalance

[@MrWorldwide00]

the final video: "Why Gaijin loves Russia" to top it off

[@SilentVoid_]

Would be funny to actually see that happen but there surely are problems in the russian tree too tho idk if they have any they seem very dominating to me to have any issues in their tree

[@Temb_]

German mains trying to convince people why Tiger 2 should face only Shermans be like:

[@pierogik9539]

Non-German mains trying to convince people that the Tiger 2 should face Cold War tanks be like:

[@Temb_]

@@pierogik9539 76 jumbo used to face leo1 for almost a year. Its not just German heavy tanks that are facing cold War tanks.

[@Gabriele_Spagnuolo02]

As long as I remember, there are no pages of history dedicated to Italians also, there are many exaples of bravery that could be portaided in the game, denied because of our Axis “nature”, that not always is related to these mens

[@ICECAPPEDSKY]

All because Gaijin pretends not to support the Patriotic War agenda. Which a lot of people point to America saying they believe they single-handedly won the war; but almost nobody looks to Russia where it is a crime to live in that country and deny that the Patriotic war was a righteous and noble war to defend the motherland and we did nothing wrong to anyone and beat back the nazis alone. This is literally taught to them in schools and celebrated annually on TV and with parades.

[@magnum6763]

theres not going to be axis pages of history because the soldiers died fighting for fucking fascists. None of them deserve respect, bar the ones that defected to nations like the Southern Kingdom and Micheals Romania.

[@bencurran3204]

They are portrayed in history pretty fine chief

[@INSANESUICIDE]

​@@bencurran3204They are not, just like the French, Romania, Hungary and more. Most people are historically illiterate and blindly believe ehat their favorite "streamer/influencer"

[@INSANESUICIDE]

I think we should always celebrate individuals achievements and bravery, it is possible to enjoy a song without liking the artist is it not? Celebrate the deed and leave the politics for the history books. Avanti!

[@Dino40707]

I can definitely agree with the thing about German top tier air getting the short end of the stick (I’m still stuck at 9.0 with the tanks so I can’t talk a lot about that). I mean I’ve used the Mig23 to grind through rank 6 and most of rank 5 and it was a pain, you don’t have flares or missiles at a BR where everyone has both which is why my matches mostly were one way bombing trips and then get an AIM-9L to the face

[@Sansarii_Minecraft]

Well at least we still have the Turn III... What's that you say? What do you mean its getting uptiered to 9.3 every other battle now?!?!

[@beniditz]

This might be a good place for that question since i was not allowed to place that question on the war thunder forum. Why is german the only nation that does not get AP ammunition for its larger guns in the costal fleet? Russia gets the AP ammunition for its T34-76 turrets on its Boats and the Allies get AP belts for their 40mm Bofors gunst but no AP for the open back 88s and 105s only HE with 11mm penn against boats with literal Tankturrets placed on them.

[@Q-lowGoblin]

I do agree that tanks such as the Tiger 2s are being a bit overshadowed by Cold War tanks, but a lot of maps do not allow for good flanking routes, making a lot of engagements be head to head. If we were to have historical matchmaking, AND disregard any sort of supply, mechanical, or amount of unit issues, then you can easily have a team full of Tigers, Panthers, armored tank destroyers, etc; facing the same number of players in lesser tanks like T-34s, and all the Shermans. Why should a player have such a material advantage over any other single player just for the sake of "historical accuracy". I would love to be in my Tiger 2s mowing down advancing shermans from miles away, but what happens when I want to play those shermans? Imagine the same amount of players in each team, but one team is FULL of vehicles that are objectively far superior than its contemporaries. There would be no point in queueing up for a game in your average Allied tank, if all you're going to face is the best of the best German armor, just because the German players wished for some more historical matchmaking. Most people would see no point in playing anything but the most powerful vehicles, and flock to the one nation that has them. That is why Germany attracts the most new players, they all want to get their hands on the big shiny indestructible Panthers and Tigers, and then they are hit with the reality that an online multiplayer game needs to be somehow balanced for all parties to have some resemblance of fun. Unless of course you would like the repair costs of these tanks to skyrocket to compensate a bit for their advantages. I'm not saying that Germany is fine as it is, or the whole game for that matter, I'm just saying that historical matchmaking can not be implemented into War Thunder whilst maintaining a fair ground to play on for all players with how the game currently works.

[@ussenterprisecv6231]

Yeah idk since in the historical events recent for dday and the bulge Germany gets fucked about 98% of the time

[@mnf4973]

The people that say they want historical matchmaking only want to seal club lesser tanks, historical matchmaking also means there are 76mm shermans against short barreled panzer 4 or is2 vs panzer 3. Older tanks still were used throughout the war and fought newer more powerful tanks but only historical mm for their stronk tiger 2

[@Q-lowGoblin]

@@mnf4973 it's pretty much exclusively the German players who want historical matchmaking. I would love to see their reserve Pz2s and 3s face off against rank 2 french tanks, or soviet KV-1s and T-34s. I'll happily take a Churchill and Cromwell combo against Italian rank 1 tanks please! How about 76 Shermans versus reserve Japanese tanks. It can not work with War Thunder.

[@rakettimies2670]

@@Q-lowGoblin I hear this same straw man every time some one bring up historical match making. Nobody is asking 1 vs 1 on tiger and sherman / t34. People who want historical battles are not asking 10x tigers vs 10x t34. it would be more like panzer 3, and 4 with few tigers. You could look which units fought in real battle, which vehicles they used and how many they had of them and use that as one balancing factor. It is not like current br system is the only way balancing matches.

[@dierare]

To be fair, I feel like balancing via statistics helps in certain ways too because some vehicle statistics are way way more important in actual battle scenarios than others, especially the community overestimates some stats most of the time.

[@Null24]

(cough abrams)

[@dierare]

@@Null24 sits perfectly fine where it is.

[@sebastianlaigep3874]

How convenient i found this video 1 day after i finally finished my 3 day grind for the Jagdtiger, i got uptiered from 6.7 to 7.3-7.7 every single match i played during this, my tanks were very slow and rough compared to my team and enemy vehicles, and with all that high pen projectiles and HEATFS shit, it was very fucking painful and i didn't really enjoyed the grind at all. All that armor my vehicles had just to get one shot by a goofy ah Centurion AVRE(i just noticed that thing is 8.0 wth), IS-4M,T-32E1,T95s OR EVEN T-54, lots of tanks i haven't faced in my entire life and i'm not supposed to do yet anyways, since i'm barely coming back to war thunder after almost a year and i've been stuck in 5.7 since that because of how stressful and shit the grind and economy was.(the grind is still shit in my opinion tho). (ik this is a general problem with every nation at some point, but i wanted to give my point of view) Fucking snail >:/ (Thanks for reading :D)

[@-______.______-]

Sweden has more german top tier tanks than Germany.... Thats why I started grinding Sweden

[@_richie96_37]

1960's tanks are fighting 2010's russian tanks

[@eagelseye8089]

A nice german top tier line up would be Puma S1, Wiesel Mells (Spike LR2), Leopard 2A6M, Leopard 2A7V, Leopard 2A7A1 (maybe A7V and A7A1 could be merged into one Leopard 2A7), Leopard 2A8, Schwerer Waffenträger Boxer (Germanised Boxer (German made armored vehicle) CRV used in Australian armed forces. Manned turret Lance 2 with the 30mm canon also used on the puma, coaxial MG5, 2 Spike LR2 missiles and maybe in the future ugvs, uavs and/ or loitering munition), Skyranger 30 (Flak tank with 30mm cannon, sadm and/or stinger missile) and Iris-T Sls on boxer chassis. Aditionally the Eurofighter at least T1 and Tornado IDS and maybe later Eurofighter T4 with Brimstone and F-35A with gps and laser guided bombs. I dont see long range weapons like Taurus, Jassm er or meteor coming to game. It just dont fit into the small maps of war thunder

[@CaptainChip501]

How about you talk about how the Gaijin MOD's Hate the Irish players?

[@BloodyCrow__]

How does adding vehicles make germany a punching bag?

[@smodgy3842]

some of these supposed issues seems so minute and miniscule I can't lie, with the only detrimental ones being missing top tier, punching bag stuff and forcing them to not fight KVs well

[@casematecardinal]

The tiger shouldn't really be fighting kv1s though even though they are stupid powerful. They should be at 4.3 where they can face harder stuff but aren't clapped constantly. As for top tier you have the best tanks in the game. Adding a5 and a6 derivatives couldn't hurt though

[@Paul91415]

Isn't it just sad that the country designing and developing the Leopard 2, doesn't even get the most modern, and in general the most variants of it in the researchable techtree? Germany 3, Sweden 5...... It is just dumb that any other Techtree nation has more of their MBT's available, exept France, they are also sitting at only 3 Leclerc.

[@Alex-dz9jg]

You should go apologize to the trees for the oxygen you wasted in those 12 minutes.

[@silymon]

You should go apologize to your two braincells for making them think this.

[@niallking2762]

Scrolling through the comments and seeing how the tone of the video has gone over almost everybody's heads makes for jolly good reading 😂😂

[@allenliu8820]

some points i agree with, but most of them i do not the leopard 2a5 was perfectly fine where it was and having it go to a lower br would negatively impact the lineup if it had gone down it would not have recieved dm53 and instead dm43 and it would not have a lineup I am also perfectly fine with fighting heatfs in a tiger or panther the pt76 was a good tank too good to go down, but horrible if it had gone up it was a glass cannon that very few german players had an issue with but most germany players had issues back then with british apds which was very good and could reliable penetrate a tiger 2 from 500m's from the front they were also mobile with very good armor and many german players did not know how to deal with them because in most cases they could outrange the tiger 2 bounce shells like no tomorrow and they would reach our side of the map quicker than we could in a our very heavy tigers other issues that I liked being point out was the lack of vehicles and germany lacks good supporting vehicles and it is a shame we get vehicles much later compared to other nations i like to joke by the time we get the eurofighter, every other nation would have stealth fighters the mig 19s does not need missiles, but flares it lacks countermeasures and can not deal with enemy all aspect missiles it is fast and that is all it is, but not fast enough to catch a f104 the f104g is not inferior compared to other nations, but at one point it was the laughing stock of f104's because it sat a br higher than the f104a or c and only had aim 9b's and flares then the aim 9j was secretly added (i found out before the youtubers and abused the shit out of it until people wised up figured it out) the puma when it came out was a very good vehicle and it had to go up there was no way around it, but I expected it to have recieved the spike before the italians and after the isreali's, so i was quite angered when italy got the spike i remembered when the mig 23mld was added and I wondered when germany would get their's well 6 months after was the answer and we had to deal with the mig 23mf for quite a while before they finally added the mig 23mla historically this was normal that countries the bordered the west recieved less advanced versions compared to their russian counterparts, so i am not that mad though i do get very mad and excited when i get german top tier event vehicles because we lack a lot of stuff and i am willing to grind for it most of the time

[@evo3s75]

Same shit with the MiG-23MF/MLA also happened with the F-4F.. We first got the F-4F Early and then 6 months later the TT F-4F Mind you, the German F-4F's never had 9J's and only used 9B, 9B FGW 2 and 9L's which we to this day still have not seen added to the damn thing.. Gaijin could've given it 9L's since the F-14's introduction to help it fight back against them but no, they went the easy route after letting is suffer a full year + under the F-14's and MiG-23 (and just the top tier meta in that time)

[@allenliu8820]

@@evo3s75 I would argue that the aim 9L should not be added for the f4f because it is currently siting at the br where it doesn't fight f14's if they add the aim 9l's to the f4f it would likely warrant a br increase thus pushing it to 11.0 where it has a high chance of fighting the f14b and mig 29 which it has no chance with though i do agree, we keep getting the short end of the stick while every other major nation gets to enjoy their shiny new toy, we just gotta cope with it until they add something the next update like why can't we have the mig 29 along with the russians they did it with the tornado, but they couldnt do it with the mig 29? seems outragious to me that britian, italy, and germany got tornadoes and it wasn't even the adf version so they can compete germany never got the adf version so it was fine, but they could had given us the mig 29 considering all the chances required was a change in paint, symbols, and slight adjustments to stats but i just gotta face it germany will never be a part of the top tier meta the meta is gonna be dominated by Russia and America and there is nothing we can do about it like we are just gonna end up with like 5 eurofighter variants because germany lacks a large airforce we will also get the f4f ice, but that is it and they are gonna put it at 13.0 because it has aim 120's and it will still get absolutely smashed by f18's, f15's, f16c's, and russian mig and su fighters

[@INSANESUICIDE]

​@@evo3s75I am perfectly fine with 11.0 or 11.3 for it if it gets radar missiles, there are two phantoms that do not get radar missiles, tech tree germany and event germany, there are even radar missiles at lower br than the german F-4F.

[@INSANESUICIDE]

​@@allenliu8820What is this defeatism? We will win! We just defeated two entire russian army groups in the reichtag, hang in there, we WILL have our wunderwaffen!🎉

[@simon2493]

Gajin has so many possible Leopards to add. Leopard 2A6EX, Leopard 2E, Leopard 2 HEL, Leopard 2A6M, Leopard 2-140, Leopard KVT II, Leopard A6MA3, Leopard A6A3, Leeopard 2A7A1, Leopard 2A7+, Leopard 2A7HU, Leopard: TVM min, TVM max oraz TVM 2. And few more.

[@RideWithBogzY]

This is pretty well said. the 9.7 lineup has been ruined and unbalanced after the PUMA change to 10.0. The 9.7 of GER can't handle the 11.0, Ex: Leo 2k, Gepard 1A2, Weisel 1A2. And CAS has only 9.7 Mig-23BN and 10.0 MiG 21 SPK that has no Flares, and the Mig-23BN has no AAM compared to su-25k and A10 which is also still at 10.0 with so much Ground firepower and with Aim-9L and R60MK. Since most of the time the game is full up tiered to 11.0.

[@Fantom_4C1]

Russia also has migs with no flares stop whining

[@mrprism5382]

A perfect attacker for 10.0 would the the Alpha Jet A

[@AmelpsXett]

1:47 ah yes, the tank that has the same speed and scale that it can penetrate through the front plate while the jumbo itself can barely penetrate tigers turret, even though jumbo slugs should penetrate way further

[@rohartmartin8329]

This video feels like an April Fools, I can agree with some little things but most of those complaints are just wrong in my eyes... As somebody that plays mostly Minor factions of the game (FR,JP,ITA) it just feels like all the misery of the world is currently to GER to bear in the game wich is not true by the slightest. This is my opinion on the subject maybe i'm wrong telling this, in the end everybody suffers in WT only the Snail is happy. But anyway's TL;DR here's why : "Many German tanks do not fight their own era" : Do you think anyone does ? This game as """""realistic""""" as they claim it to be you still have to think about gameplay first before realism otherwise it would not work. Yes I agree that the way of Gaijin of making BR's by statistic is wrong, yes, but if a Tiger H1 should face what there was in it's Era in WT it would be overpowered. "Tigers 1 having to face HEATFS is not fair" : It's not fair for anybody, every nation as some sort of Heat, FS or not and you still need to have the tools for other nations to defend themselves against Armor, you still need to know where to shoot and HEAT is unreliable in terms of post pen damage. "Germany just has the Leopard 2A6 and that's it." : There is so many more German MBT's that are as capable. even if germany don't have as much copy pasta MBT's than the other nations, why does it matter ? Germany has a lot of versatile vehicles that can compete even in Top Tier. And Leo 2A7 and 2A8 are way too modern with insane amount of armor compared to what there is in-game to be added, but Leo2A6 derivatives will come at some point, all minors nations know patience way too well, Germany will have to do for now, what else can we do anyway huh ? "What we keep getting as German players is light vehicles that don't do too much." : At least it's better than nothing, like all minor nations are waiting for something to chew on, Germany got recently a new vehicle with the last update + a battlepass one. Even if they are not of the taste of everybody, at least it's something. Germany is one of the nation with the most vehicle counts in the game everything together (Ground,Air,Naval), even if some of those vehicles are there since decades now going from bottom to top is probably one of the longest Tech Tree in the game. "The PUMA is still not getting their spike missiles wich is horrific." : The PUMA is a very good light tank for many many points wich is why it got up in BR, and also it is a vehicle made in 2010, an example here some vehicles from the 1980 are facing this thing, not really fair for them ? Adding spikes missiles will be a plus but barely, Fire and forgets are very unreliable currently and rely on way too many random factors for them to work, yes it would be a neafty + for the PUMA but calling it horrific that it's not there, is to overeact it. "The Leo 2PL and Leo2A5 didn't go lower in BR because people kept complaining." : And because they are very good vehicles, they should not go lower, imagine what would happen if they lowered a Leclerc ? And they are not even as good as a Leo2A5 in terms of overall. "They never gets the better version of stuff and instead just get worse ones" : Welcome to lend lease vehicles, first time ? If we would follow the """""realism""""" that the game tries to follow yeah, that's just it. I know a lot of lend lease vehicles had the ordnance, missiles, and etc of their origin country counterparts but, examples like the F-8E(FN) of France exist as well. "The Hunter of the Swiss, has just been given to Germany for torment them because of it's status as a Swiss vehicle." : That thing is one of the best squadron planes you can have, complaining about it getting added is nonsensical and remember that in the meantime, France, Italy, Japan for naming a few still didn't got a single Squadron vehicle/new squadron vehicle, complaining about a nice free addition is... why... About removed vehicles and "fake" vehicles : Those 3 german vehicles we're intended to be placeholders, yes it's kinda stupid to not add back their real counterparts without the thing that made them "not realistic" (NVD of the Panther II for example) but in the other hands some vehicles that are just "paper" vehicles are added because of the same reasons, look at the F16AJ, it was added for Top Tier Japan to have something to chew on in wait for the next gen fighters, those additions are for gameplay more than realism, but always remember, if realism come at the cost of gameplay, it's bad. Gameplay should be always first in a videogame. And to be honest, Germany has already decent of lineups at the BR of where those thing we're so it's not such big of a deal. That's it, that was some words, that video again, feels like complaining being alone in the world, minor nations has it way worse and get the short end of the sticks when it comes to addition and balancing. At the end of the day remember that we all "suffer" in this game in a way or another, trying to define wich nations has it the worse is like screaming to a wall.

[@Temb_]

thats what i also thought. this dude is actually delusional. i cant belive someone that played WT so much is so fucking stupid, he plays the stupid historical matchmaking card when talking about tiger 1 and 2. i cant belive anyone thinking that tiger 1 facing 75 shermans and tiger 2 facing 76 Shermans is a good idea. also if historical matchmaking came to be then PUMA would fight T90M and T80BVM and m60 tanks would fight T64 tanks, but no one cares to say that do they? also Germany is the one of the first nations to get HEAT, but no one likes to say that huh? this dude is so stupid i lost half of my braincells just watching the vid

[@maddoxalwood4423]

If germany gets historical matchmaking, then the US should get historical fighter costs, aka free

[@justanotherbob1621]

I love how you kept a straight face during that video. Props for that

[@ExosLife]

recently i witnessed a I-2 just take 1000 pounds of bombs to the dome and it survived.

[@Infinite-INF]

This is sadly a huge issue, As an american Air but German ground its just hell to go through useing the tigers. Trying to get the Maus because why not but after i unlock it im probably not playing Germany untill they get better stuff. The Maus for example is pretty bad at its BR since Heat FS Murders it. But an issue is they cant bring it down in BR because ill be to op but Up? Its useless, Yet they refuse to do stuff like Actually Balance it

[@ManySighs]

i agree about the maus, a kinda simular situation is with the r3 it used to be op in 3.3 so they moved it to 5.0 where it was fair then they thought it was "still unfair" so they moved it to 5.7 where it can't even pen anything, allthe while the sweedish ikv103 had HEATFS at 5.7 and was moved down to darn 4.0... even stock it has 240mm of pen HEAT which a 3.0 swedish tank has. so WTF why do they think the maus and r3 are broken when this exists...

[@arkroyal1598]

The thing is, i truly dont think the maus wont be OP even if it were to sit at 7.0, it still has a big chance of facing early cold war shit at 8.0, and sure it might be a lot stronger when downtiered to 6.0, but the thing is.. there's plenty of stuff starting from 6.0 (heck, even some at 5.7) that have plenty of penetration to atleast get through the side, but also plenty of stuff that could nail the turret within 500m. Just down to skill when a maus hunkers down, try to get the gunner, or try to get the gun itself.

[@Infinite-INF]

@@arkroyal1598 yeah ik but heat FS is a real issue with the Maus Anything with a HeatFS round would murder the Maus and they know this yet refuse to make it even a SLIGHT more resistant to HeatFS I agree its strong but their is no way its doing 8.0 well. It may have a 125mm cannon but the fact it has no HeatFS on it makes it a lot worse aginst anything at 8.0 anyways

[@mpondachongo1138]

​@@arkroyal1598you can't just balance a tank based on the assumption that it will sometimes get up tired. All heavy tanks suffer during up tier's.

[@spartan8345]

I refuse to believe the "German players are brain dead" excuse. I recently switched to America, and my kd has never been higher

[@andypozuelos1204]

Germany is literally the easiest nation. If there was a difficulty setting in warthunder, Germany would be easy mode.

[@TitanTankerGaming]

Yup, and USSR as the very easy mode lol

[@jacobbobmeboi5545]

What do you mean?

[@trin162]

Muppet!

[@mute_psycho697]

Perhaps if I didn’t get up-tiered constantly and have to face American t-34s all the time and Russian Is-3/4s

[@alb791]

​@@mute_psycho697😭fr it's either those, or early cold war missles

[@Jorakful]

I've recently restarted playing War Thunder for the first time since 2018 or 2019 i think back when Naval Forces started in the closed Beta. My Friends where playing at a higher BR which wasn't that bad, i have the Premium Tiger II which was gifted to me back then as a birthday gift and i was close to unlocking the Tiger II (P) so in a few days i got i line up which i was comfortable to take into 6.7. Now half a week went buy and i think i only ever experienced two downtiers while the majority of the games in full 7.7 uptiers and i have to say, it's not fun. While i try to get my Kingtiger in a Position while i get constantly killed by 60s or 70s Tanks that just don't care about my 1943 Armour. Then i tried something different ME 262s, which are quite the challenge since basically every enemiy seems to outclimb, outrun and outturn you and even without a G-Suit for my Pilot in kinda got them to work until i reached my ME 262 C-2b which at this point in time is still stock because it is pretty difficult to fly and in the end i just get one or two shot by heat seeking missiles. So right now i've been focusing on my US and UK Tech trees which are much less frustrating.

[@adhx7506]

I just dont get the hate that Germany seems to face in the community. Ive read so many people agreeing with the LEO I going up to 8.0, while facing constant 9.0 apfsds/laserrangefinder tanks, without even having a stabilizer. Just as wanting the TURM III going up as high as possible as if it had some magical features on it. Its one shot from every angle, only has apds and no laserrangefinder. Even 8.3 is a stretch for it considering that it will ALWAYS be 9.3 and not 8.3 or even 7.3. Hence being the perfect example for "if Germany has something nice, something enjoyable, they HAVE to destroy it.". Both tanks are nerfed into the ground now and are basically not fun anymore.

[@quan-uo5ws]

To be fair they have to raise top tier too as they raised 7.3-7.7 tanks, then they will decompress and make 8.0 great tier

[@casematecardinal]

Bruh its a fully stabilized autoloaded 105 with a 20mm as backup. 8.3 is kind. As for the leopard I think 8.0 is good for now. 7.7 if german players can't manage to use its strengths at all. Its still better than the aos and that thing has a stabilizer.

[@quan-uo5ws]

@@casematecardinalturm actually has 30mm with aphe round the thing is busted

[@casematecardinal]

@@quan-uo5ws dang. It really goes to show how put of touch german players are. This is the same br as the m60aos. The m60 aos is trash.

[@maxwellmaragia2272]

t54 1949 is worse in every way compared to leo 1 and its 8.0 too. And no, don't even try mentioning armour that can bounce 200mm pen full calibre shells since at those br that don't count

[@NikTw3ntyone]

You forgot to mention that Gaijin actually put code in the game that made only AXIS tanks catch fire, by non-penetrating machine gun rounds even. Also The Ho229 was once a good CAS plane, got nerfed to absolute shit.

[@pimler1114]

Gold, Germany truly suffers.

[@Aaradorn]

Absolutely beautiful shitpost

[@coleramsey6705]

The best part about a shitpost like this is when half of the people watching are in agreement with the insane ideas

[@oskarhoffmann8312]

​@@coleramsey6705huh

[@inurmomsbedroom123]

​​@@coleramsey6705You're the guy cruising the comments, posting under one's with

[@whatdothlife4660]

ignorance is bliss @@coleramsey6705

[@Livewyr7]

Germany suffers... Leopard 2A5 (1992) came in at the same time as the M1A1... (1985) Leopard 2A6 (1999) came in at the same time as the M1A2.. (1992) Ru-251 fights Jumbo Leo1 fought Jumbos (until very very recently) They're not nearly as handheld as the soviets/Russians... but they have sins to pay for. (I played M1A1 against the Leo2A5... that was fkn AWFUL. I had to take a year long break...

[@tommykenworthy9950]

The 2a8 as a demonstrator shouldnt be added unless we also give all nations their next gen tanks that are demonstrators like the abrams x. Demonstrators and paper tanks from history shouldnt be added and should be removsd because there is no way to actually know their performances and therefore cant really be balanced

[@therussiandoge1149]

2a8 isn’t a tech demonstrator. It’s an upgrade package for the 2a7 that’s already in service. The kf51 is a tech demonstrator and is a better comparison with the Abrams X

[@FallIntoPeace]

​@therussiandoge1149 the current 2A8 is a demonstrator, the tanks will be upgraded with the package in 2024

[@ligmahexgrid7664]

As a German main who hasn't really built up any line-ups with any other nation its hard to keep going

[@kyarailumi]

if you are going to play casually then go play USSR because you'll get much better "experience" in the game

[@jackmazzeo6038]

Germany does not suffer and has some of the most powerful vehicle lineups in the game at every tier change my mind.

[@jackmazzeo6038]

in ground forces

[@gelatinousturncoat]

Balancing by era is nonsense. There is no realism in Germany throwing hordes of king tigers at the allies in equal numbers to other tanks of the era. "Realism" would be abysmal mechanical problems, spawn caps for wunderwaffe tanks, and double spawn point costs for everything not made by USA or USSR. I've played the WW2 tanks in USA, Germany, USSR, Japan, and the better half of UK and Italy. Germany is not hurting for good vehicles, their players just suck. All the Warthunder promotions give new players German tanks and German tank rentals, so that's where they go. 5.7 and 6.7 German lineups are the most braindead, W-key mashing, loadouts in the game aside from the old TURMS wallet warrior lineup. You just roll your lard-mass onto the enemy team and usually instantly pen 90% of the tanks you meet, and then when someone with an ounce of ability kills you, whip out the JU88, Do-335 wallet edition, or Arrado and revenge bomb them so they get mad and leave. Repeat until out of tanks or you win. I don't want any of their stuff nerfed, I just want them to stop complaining that Gaijin forces them to play with their brain screwed in and accept that they didn't buy god mode included with their premium tiger II.

[@DemiLad]

its a game, does not need to be as real as the battle of Kursk

[@sovieticodiabetico6874]

@@DemiLad that`s why it shouldn`t have a balancing by era

[@grievetan]

Gaijin loves Germany alright. This is why Jumbo 76 was moved to 6.3

[@TitanTankerGaming]

EXACTLY! I honestly never knew that TEC is just another whiny German main

[@ronaldhui3663]

Imagine a Gaijin War Thunder ad popping up before you watch a video explaining why Gaijin hates everyone execpt for Mother Russia

[@maxwellmaragia2272]

Not even mentioning the suffering of 5.0 to 6.7 planes facing US superprops and griffon spitfires when in your team you are only 2 fighters

[@reconzero5699]

Their CAS is ruining everything

[@Tingleton11]

Well thats more of a gaijin hating the players

[@boggisthecat]

Puma (both old and new), Turms, ‘super’ Soviet vehicles with increased armour and better ammunition, freakin’ naval guns on tracks, AA monsters... Ammunition types are all very good for the BR. It comes down to playing the available vehicles well.

[@lopeter6663]

i'm really surprused how this video was not uploaded on april 1st

[@Batard42069]

Maus was removed not because it was unbalanced but because it was hard to balance. Rither it goes against WW2 vehicles and obliterates everything or it goes against cold war vehicles where it is just a giant punching bag for stuff like BMP-1

[@Red_Four]

Vehicles should only face those of their own eras. The only exceptions should be the vehicles at the very beginning of the next era. For example, it's plausible for an American T34 to face a King Tiger because the design of the T34 came out of the need to have something that could go toe to toe with the German heavies. That should be the extent of era bleed over, and it shouldn't be a regular occurrence. The BR system might have worked back when the newest vehicle we had was early Cold War and there was not a single ATGM to be found in the game, but that's no longer the case. There needs to be a more clearly defined line between pre-war, war/post war, cold war, and modern eras with minimum bleed over.

[@damio6865]

Yea except that doesn't work in broad terms some of the swedish 3.0-5.0 vehicles would be seeing t62s and stuff like that if we went by era

[@casematecardinal]

Then hoe do you balance the maus. It would be impervious to almost anything except a completely flat shot from an American long 90 apcr round from something like a t32.

[@Glumbus1]

finally my

[@Red_Four]

@@casematecardinal I'm not sure how to balance a vehicle like the Maus, but I also don't think that WW2 era vehicles should be coming up against ATGMs just because of one vehicle.

[@Red_Four]

@@damio6865 maybe they should rethink how they incorporate those vehicles into battles then. Maybe they should decompress the BR scale by adding a .5. I don't know the answer, but they need to think of something, because what we have now just isn't working like it used to.

[@Keyboard_Thoughts]

The least angry werhaboo:

[@challengerrr362]

"Why does Gaijin hate Germany?" Meanwhile looks at low BR with 90% Germany teams with cannons that make the game point and click adventure games. And despite their shit armor they are deceivably survivable. Gaijin doesn't hate Germany. It hates minor nations just as much as it hates France. Open your eyes people.

[@justsnowbg]

this couldnt be more relatable the tornado ids marineflinger should have stayed in 10.7 because its a flying brick

[@nau7ilus]

I've noticed that in the war thunder mobile version of the game, the tiger 1 h it treated much nicer by fighting primarily shermans and low t 34s been a while since ive played german 5.3 base game but pretty sure it isnt as forgiving.

[@kyarailumi]

it just maybe, I think they decide to do that because they want to appear nices to new audience and want to lure them into the deeper rabbit hole

[@yawis8925]

If I had known the things I know now, after two years of playing War Thunder back then, I would have never started playing.

[@robertososa8467]

I agree with everything you said and its something me and my best friend have dealt with since it began, we both got the maus, tiger 105 the panther 2 and the coelian at the last minutes before they were removed and when it happened the techtree loocked sooo empty, you had a hole tier with just like 5 vehicles that had too much of a gap in the Br. I really hate that gaijin does this and also the volumetrik change mostly benefits russian vehicles and i think that it was better before, whe rounds still damaged the turret ring instead of just vanisching. Still im not sure if complete historical balancing is the right thing but consider maybe the loadout of the vehicle for instance russian vehicles that are in high tier that still use conventional rounds should not have to compete against reactive- or new age spacedarmor in my opinion. Is-3,Is-6, Is-7 all use these and they could find a new niche facing WWll german heavy tanks like the Maus and all kinds of Tiger II and panthers. I play almost only German vehicles and nothing is more frustraiting than facing new age stabilizers with apfsds.

[@blu5021]

Honestly, i dont agree with any of this he said. The M56 is actually rather mid, the ww2 vs cold war problem, everything he mentioned was either ww2 style or just mid, he probably just had a bad game lmao

[@MISTERX_5890]

@@blu5021 Play a few rounds of 6.7 Germany then come back and talk

[@blu5021]

@@MISTERX_5890 6.7 germany is broken

[@blu5021]

-shit like the tiger 2s (all 3 are incredibly good) the jagdpanther, Ferdinand is pretty good, jagdtiger, JPZ…

[@bencurran3204]

@@MISTERX_5890 I do and its fine