180º POWER OFF ACCURACY APPROACHES Nail your landing spot EVERY TIME you land the airplane w/o power

[@thomasmartell1629]

I went around on my commercial checkride and earned a discontinuance, not all DPE's will let you go around.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Sorry to hear. Yes, I know. I should have been a little more clear - it’s better to go around than blow it if you know you’re going to blow it, at least there is a chance they will let you get away with it.

[@LTVoyager]

You should never have to go-around on a 180 spot landing unless something drives onto the runway. With proper use of slips and flaps, you should always be able to make the runway.

[@h2oski1200]

@@LTVoyager “making the runway” isn’t the point of the maneuver and will earn you a fail if you don’t hit your spot. The go-around mentioned in the video will also earn you a fail on your check ride.

[@VictoryAviation]

I’ve been told many times by my CFI not to slip once the flaps are deployed in a C172. Anyone have any ideas on how I’m supposed to slip if I’m too high if I’ve already got 20° in?

[@arleyjohnson11]

@@VictoryAviation go up to a few thousand AGL, get into full flaps/slow flight descent. Step on the rudder as hard as you can and apply appropriate opposite aileron. See if it makes the elevators flutter, in my experience I have never had it happen. So practice it yourself at altitude and see if something you wan to do. I use slips regularly flaps 30 in a 172.

[@davidkamerath7749]

“I’ll teach you how to hit your spot every time!” Goes around lol

[@TiagoSeiler]

"Tell your DPE 'I can do better'". Sure, he'll believe you when you do a retest a month later, and $1000 deeper.

[@robertyoungjohns5933]

Passed my commercial check ride last week - this was the most stressful maneuver. I watched many of your videos beforehand and they were very helpful - thank you. The technique does depend on the aircraft - for the Cirrus SR20, the 45 degree point on the downwind is too far and you would not typically use flaps until much closer to the runway. For the SR22T, you need to turn as soon as you pull power.

[@Factory400]

Indeed, the SR22T is converted into a bowling ball as soon as the power comes off.

[@christiannoble5140]

Taking my CSEL in the next few weeks and the DPE I’m using is known for not allowing a go-around for this maneuver so I’m working on these diligently the next week. Thanks for the great videos! Right on time.

[@johnmcguire66]

Yah that's my understanding. Reason is it's simulating a real scenario where you wouldn't have that option if you lost engine power so you have to be able to make it the first time on this landing. So the examiner won't let you get by with a go around because it defeats the purpose of that maneuver.

[@craigcrissman4651]

​@@johnmcguire66they need to address the 200ft touchdown and the a beam the numbers entry point if it's supposed to simulate an actual emergency in the pattern rather than just testing energy management techniques. If it's testing energy management a go around should be allowed and if it's testing an emergency the touchdown zone should be expanded but with the tradeoff of a more random entry point.

[@mrmorphic]

The aeroclub in New Zealand that I trained at requires demonstrating this manouvre before going solo for PPL, along with engine failure at take-off. I was surprised to see that in some places such procedures are not even mandatory for PPL. Like Australia, this is called a glide approach.

[@dchuru24]

its the same in Argentina... all my landings during the PPL course were performed (or tried to) as glide or "precision" landings...

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

You guys are making real pilots. A pilot that cannot glide to a point 200 feet long touch down point is a mediocre pilot. I did short approaches with slips at only 8 hours and soloed doing them at 10 hours. Piper Colt flying brick. 17 years old only . 1969.

[@rustydomino694]

@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 agreed, flight training in the US should be more strict about emergencies, at least where I was ps I love your EFATO video you made way back

[@Saml01]

Its very interesting to see another method to solve the same problem. My CFI teaches slip first then drop all flaps when you know the runway is made. To do otherwise would mean to give up airspeed. However, this would only work on a runway without obstructions.

[@Xeniasfreewhilly67]

The power off 180 approach to land was by far the biggest help during my last couple flights trying to land the warrior, the landing was not to bad but that transition for you to roundout once the edge of the brown was gone is what I need to be working on for power on or off. Thanks for the video I think that will help tremendously!

[@BradyDearinger]

THIS IS THE BEST AVIATION CHANNEL ON KZbin. That's a statement because I'm subscribed to them all.

[@jacobjasch4397]

Interesting. In Australia we call it a glide approach, and you have to demonstrate it for your recreational pilot licence, ppl, and cpl.

[@abbieamavi]

Interesting! I think overall that just makes better pilots(:

[@user-hp6lg3tm7d]

The power off 180 is probably one of the most challenging maneuvers I have done. I sometimes nail it, sometimes I don’t.

[@craigcrissman4651]

I think AOPA did a study where they took a random sample of experienced CFIs and had them do a power off 180 and only like 70% did it successfully first try. How this manuever has remained on the ACS as an automatic fail option item when even highly experienced pilots can at best do it most of the time but not always is kind of odd. Yes, we should be teaching it but a manuver that has a 30% fail rate amoung good pilots shouldn't be gatekeeping people from a commercial rating.

[@chucklemasters6433]

a very challenging maneuver which could also save you from wrecking your plane is practice engine out approach and landing from 3000 right over the top of the runway. very few people know and effective way to get to pattern altitude at the key position and make it to the runway without adding power or being too high and going around. try it sometime it's a real eye opener!

[@thomasard4977]

Thanks for the video Jason! My CFI from 20 years ago taught me the same way while getting my PPL, now here I am relearning from the 20 years of “real world” private pilot flying.

[@rileykieler]

I have my commercial checkride coming up in about a week and was taught to instantly pitch up and trim for best glide and use flaps as needed. I can hit my point about 85% of the time. I think I will give this method a try on my next couple flights to see if it improves my power off 180s. Thank you!

[@PilotCristina]

I was taught the same way too. I’m gonna try this out.

[@greyhavner5388]

Me too (private). In fact, my DPE gave me a little lesson on this during the checkride. Going to best glide immediately makes the most sense to me because the #1 priority is getting to the runway/landing field. When you're certain you've got it, and/or are too fast too high, then slip/flap/etc. (that DPE also strongly suggested slipping without flaps first, again in case you misjudge things. Flaps at the end. It was the first time I slipped that much with no flaps, and the plane felt so much more controllable).

[@rileykieler]

@@greyhavner5388 yeah I actually brought this up to a check examiner today asking his opinion on it and he stuck with instantly going to best glide for that exact reason. I guess in theory if you're purposefully practicing this in the pattern, then it would make sense, but in a real life engine failure scenario you would want to maximize your time in the air by being at best glide to allow you to get to a safe landing area.

[@1shARyn3]

That the maneuver is only on the commercial always fascinates me. In the Brown Shoe days, THAT is the ONLY way we were allowed to do approaches from downwind for the private certificate. So, that is what I grew up with.

[@TheFinerPoints]

I love it! It's my default and I teach all my students to land this way regardless of their level. 🙌

[@oldschoolcfi3833]

@@TheFinerPoints glad to hear that, I learned that way as well, and teach the same!

[@1xtsallad]

Had a DPE tell me and my CFI that every landing should be done without power.

[@dalereed3950]

I was taught that for CPL but only did it with an instructor.

[@mbflyin8663]

Great video, in SW Florida the DPE’s will tell you up front the power 180 is the only landing they won’t allow a go around.

[@justanotheremdoc]

25L at Livermore is the bane of my existence . During PPL training, that was the one of the more narrower runway I practiced on and always had an issue judging how high I was off the runway. Some time later during solo practice, my radio failed in the pattern of 25L and I had to scramble to land on that runway I always didn’t like. (Did get to use light gun from the tower to taxi). So today I still have a healthy respect for that runway and it did make me a better pilot.

[@djinn666]

I actually found 25L pretty easy. Runway 31 at KPAO is the one I struggle with. Same width but significantly shorter, plus a ridiculous amount of traffic in the pattern and a very cramped airspace.

[@colinboone9920]

Jusssssst started my commercial, so this is PERFECT timing! You’re awesome, thanks for the videos!

[@treylem3]

Excellent ! This is great training. My CFI chopped the throttle ALOT while training, and I'm so glad he did 👍

[@SVSky]

Originally I was taught to do this as a part of my private, but when I switched to -172s managing the flaps and geometry was tough. Great tips for practrice.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

You can slip Cessnas with 30 or less degrees of flaps. I have done then on all. 40 degree can partially block the stabilizer and not recommended unless a short slip, but not extended slips..

[@djbred18]

Great tips for Patrice and everyone else

[@mamoruisamu1]

Thanks! Looks like I’m one of many scheduled for a CP checkride in the next few weeks, and I was nailing these nearly every time until a few weeks ago. Now I’m only about 80% and getting nervous. I’ve been saving all the flaps until seeing how things look on final or if I need a “Hail Mary” float for a few feet. I’ll have to try adding the 10 degrees in first.

[@bulamoves2987]

Highly recommend my students to do a pwr off 180 every single flight. Even if ur on a straight in approach to pull pwr and challenge yourself to make the runway. Also recommend not to deploy flaps but use slip first then decide if flaps are needed. If gonna be short, get in ground effect sooner and when stall horn is heard, deploy flaps to give u added distance. Never fly during commercial without doing a pwr off 180. Trust

[@lechstryzewski9350]

GREAT video Jason ... as they all are. I wish they weren't so short though, I could watch them all day. I am just getting back in the air this coming week after a brief delay(since June) to knock the rust off and continue with check ride prep. This could not have come at a better time. You are appreciated man. Please keep up the outstanding work. I know it takes a lot to produce great content like this. How I wish I were closer to you geographically. I would LOVE to take my Instrument training with you.

[@MattSwinden]

Hey Jason...and speaking of DPE's... Brian S. from Lake Havasu sends his regards. I had the pleasure of him performing my IR checkride last month.

[@angleofattack]

Fun one. Great to have a different perspective.

[@bsirrobin32]

I'd highly recommend practice managing your glide path and aiming point using 20 degrees flaps rather than the full 30. On short final and especially in ground effect, you can then adjust flaps as needed for more or less lift to hit your point. I've saved bad PO180 approaches by adding more flaps in ground effect to float longer. Alternatively , you can decrease flaps in ground effect to lose lift if you're too fast and going to overshoot.

[@lukeroth423]

Decreasing flaps in ground effect is not a good idea... Think about all the lift you will loose with minimal airspeed and little safety margin above the ground.

[@bsirrobin32]

@@lukeroth423 that's exactly the point.

[@JETZcorp]

@@lukeroth423 Lol that's called a landing. Stalling in ground effect sounds like a bad idea too but if the tires are 12mm from the ground it works out pretty good.

[@StefBelgium]

Same tools as engine failure landing. Practice a lot in my sim! Thanks Jason...another good one.

[@erastusmwai6622]

Thanks for your videos, I had my first solo and I couldn't be more grateful to you..God bless you from Kenya 🇰🇪

[@rocky_williams]

This is timely information for me. I’m prepping for my commercial checkride which is scheduled for the 29th of December. This helps me. Thank you!

[@joro18d93]

This landing has been my biggest struggle with CAX training. Sometimes I nail it, most times I don't.

[@yangsong9320]

Glad to hear you can tell examer you can try the power off again and do better. I failed my stage check because I cannot make it. Examer asked me, if your engine is broken, can you retry? Re-check!

[@Bobbyboucher9814]

Great content and love reading all the comments. I just had my commercial checkride and a go around on a power off 180 IS NOT an option. You get one shot at it. That was made clear during all my commercial training and by the DPE during the flight briefing, and that makes sense. You are simulating an engine out scenario coupled with a short field landing. I fly in Arizona and doing my checkride during the summer monsoon months made it challenging. (For example I was practicing them, no power, pitch down at 75 indicated and was only 200’ below TPA a quarter mile from the runway on final.) My DPE was kind enough to have me do the other landings first, before the power off 180, to kinda feel out the conditions, which were thermally and bumpy, but managed to nail it.

[@robertmurdoch1]

Great teaching style! Thanks!

[@eddapilot9546]

Hello, I’m am currently going for commercial and have my TAA training starting Monday, Tuesday I will actually be a Livermore doing power off 180 practice, thanks for the tips I’m excited to put it to use, will comment how it goes!

[@eddapilot9546]

Update nailed my power off on my com checkride!

[@roberthaynes9220]

I've evaluated 120 first time CFI candidates and my pass rate with DPE's is 85%. This is the most difficult maneuver of all because it is very dynamic. While I think your approach has merit, you cannot "cook book' this maneuver. You never apply a static solution to a dynamic problem because it only works part of the time. There are times when winds are so significant that you may have to turn for the numbers immediately and land with no flaps just to make the landing spot. My point is that you must evaluate each situation on it's own. I think there are 7 tools, not just 3. Tools are: 1. when to turn base. 2. flaps. 3. slips. 4. flight path. 5. ground effect. 6. airspeed. 7. constant speed prop (if applicable). You deploy the tools as necessary always evaluating the need to conserve or dissipate altitude. Deployment of these tools are also dependent on 1. winds. 2. altitude. 3. position relative to the runway and 4. aircraft performance.

[@abbieamavi]

*fantastic explanation and video as always, I'm in commercial training right now and 180 isn't an issue for me, but your videos always teach me something so I'm here to learn. Thanks Jason!*

[@flywithandee]

Amazing video!! Thanks Jason!!

[@nickwulf]

Didn't you say in a previous video, in a go around to initiate flaps up then go full power? Or am I mistaken? Thanks for the video, when I was in training and to this day, I am more comfortable doing power out from downwind landings than landing with power!

[@WolfPilot]

Excellent video Jason!! I love practising short approaches. Chop power and turn direct the numbers, sideslip if needed. Yee ha!

[@holyteejful]

Awesome video again , Jason . Thanks for all the time and effort u put into your videos

[@worldaviationnetwork]

Very informative video!! Well done Jason!!

[@lennyfernandes603]

amazing. just what the tips I need as I get ready for my checkride. this is huge. you are truly a flight instruction legend. thank you.

[@RoyFKent]

Thanks for the great videos. In this one you mention you watch the strut to gauge your distance from runway on downwind, and half way up is right when sitting in the seat away from the runway. Where on the strut is your guideline when in the seat closer to the runway?

[@TheFinerPoints]

If the runway is on the same side of the airplane as you it should cut through about 2/3 of the way up the strut toward the wing

[@prestonmiller9552]

Finer points indeed Jason! Thanks for sharing.

[@TheFinerPoints]

You bet! 🙌

[@dannyw7152]

Commercial Check ride coming up. I'm in a A36. sinks like a rock, I turn base maybe 3-5 seconds after engine failure or I will be short. Complex heavy plane is definitely a little quicker and different. Love your videos!

[@susangardner294]

At my home airport! Thanks -that was really informative!

[@loversRule]

Cool video. Two questions: 1) how to you change the approach with strong head winds or a tail wind? And 2) My commercial DPE told me I could not go around and and forced me to land during my power off 180 years ago. I even told him I was going around, but this DPE said "no.". What should people do if they run into that situation?

[@beekim2169]

If you have strong head winds, that will reduce the amount of "float" as it will decrease your "ground speed" on final, so your "aiming point" should be closer to your "touch down point". I'd anticipate (200-300' float). Vice versa for tail winds. You do not want to land with tail winds due to the fact of added ground speed of which makes you to float longer to touch down and require longer landing distance, so in that case, you would aim further out from your point anticipating that you're gonna float for a bit longer than calm wind days. For Q2, DPEs will want to see you land even tough you might be short or long on your touch down point and fall outside of ACS standards because of its purpose of the maneuver( Simulated power loss while in pattern). So in case of misjudging and you know that you are not going to hit the point, just land the plane unless you MUST go around due to safety reasons(ex. you're gonna land short of the runway, birds, objects on the runway, etc). Depends on the case, but some DPEs will give you another shot for Power off 180, as long as you landed long of your touch down point. But not all DPEs are like that. Some will fail you right away if you don't land within the standard length minimums which now is +200/-0 or if you even go around. Hope these helped your questions!

[@bubbafatas2588]

I required my students to perform this maneuver in order to solo! If you can’t do it consistently you can make a good emergency landing!

[@brucev8339]

As several noted here, pretty sure no go-arounds are allowed on most Commercial check rides. Right?

[@mazerali7615]

I passed my Commercial Pilot Checkride because of this technique, thank you very much for this much needed video!

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

At 8 hours i started doing landings. Piper. 80 mph approaches. I soloed at 10 hours. In 1969. Doing short approaches and forward slips mostly, then touch and go all times too. Only 2.2 hours doing those 3 maneuvers instead of the easy long approaches prep me for solo touch and goes. 17 years old. Those 3 maneuvers sharpen you. Piper Colt. Cessnas are easier to do short approaches, no forward slips needed with those big flaps.

[@RickyGXO]

Boss I love going to your channel for tips but I feel like your advice to go around when high fell short of my standards. Jokes aside from my understanding a PO180 is supposed to demonstrate you can manage the plane to hit exactly where you intend to with an engine failure within glide distance of airport or not. Another perspective would be you resigned rather than fighting for your best landing always. My trouble from this landing is approaching too high and fast, I consistently bounce or float too long. Would you give more tips on what to do? Would you consider making another video for Piper Archers?

[@juanbetancur1046]

Awesome video thanks

[@coreyjordan2745]

Thank you!

[@sami10z]

thanks for the video

[@elpidiomanuelalvarenga4223]

Thank you for the advice. As usual, very helpful. In Argentina, not only 90° and 180° power off landings are required for Private Pilot License, but 360° as well! The latter, commencing 1000 ft AGL just above the runway numbers. After power off, two turns of 135° and then one of 90° to final, ideally. How about a video for a 360?

[@jacksonmartin9200]

Man I love your videos

[@djbred18]

My cfi makes me immediately go for best glide when abeam🤷‍♂️

[@regulator5521]

You posted this literally an hour before I’m going to go practice my landings 😂

[@TheFinerPoints]

We're in sync! 🙌

[@grahamrobinson2250]

Good luck!

[@regulator5521]

@@TheFinerPoints So I tried your advice and it was really helpful, I just need to work on timing my flare because some landings were a little flat

[@JavierBrent]

t is called Simulated Idle. With some flaps and carb heat. We got 700 fpm level and more while turning on C172. Idling is bad for Air Cool engines.. Do Sim idle with 10 flaps instead.

[@archer494]

Interesting. An approach like that often wouldn't be possible where I come from. Most airfields here have fixed patterns you have to adhere to due to noise regulations etc. Wouldn't work with power off. At my home airfield - even if I cut through directly from abeam to the runway I wouldn't have enough altitude to make a landing. Pattern is too large. Just to get things clear: in the US you can decide yourself which distance you fly from the runway in downwind and what route you use for base and final? And is a power off approach only for training or do people land that way regularly?

[@kubtastic]

My hurdle in learning this maneuver was that I would instinctively fly a normal groundtrack and hose the entire approach.

[@rvrnnr987]

Knowing, and being good at, both standard and power off approaches are essential, especially for the real world when you end up 3rd in line. However, I'm in a long debate with myself about which is better for your everyday go-to approach. On the one hand, the standard "power on" approach can be taught as a way of actively flying the plane to the touchdown. This is good. But learning to do the power off from abeam the numbers might really be the safer option because it always sets you up for the "what if the engine fails somewhere along the approach?" scenario. With the standard "powered" approach, if you are relying on that 1500 RPM (or whatever the power setting is for your aircraft), and it suddenly goes to windmill RPM, you're going to be in trouble. But if you start the approach as close to windmill RPM as possible, on purpose, an engine failure *should* then be nominal. Thoughts?

[@cq7415]

Thanks.

[@Oshkoshtruckfan]

"Gear down and welded". I love it, I am gunna use it 👍

[@JuliusG73]

My CFI taught me something a bit unconventional, but I thank her for it. No flap power off 180. I get them pretty much 100% of the time with some practice. All slip (as needed) on base and/or final until you are lined up to round out at the numbers (I am touching down on the aiming point marking, if one exists). Keep all three notches of flaps in your back pocket if you need to stretch the ground effect a few hundred feet longer, plus each notch will make you slower so you even can nail the marker itself with ease rather than forcing it down < 200' on your checkride. This works in a 152 at least. Usually the landing works just fine with no flaps but sometimes I put in 1 or 2 if the wind gusted a bit and energy is running low. If you're hauling and unsure about flying right past the marker, you can also leave ground effect (just a few feet) to add that smidge of drag.

[@ItsAllAboutGuitar]

You should also think that if you're in a real world engine failure and crash landing, you want flaps to land with as little energy as possible.

[@JuliusG73]

@@ItsAllAboutGuitar True. This is in the case of being in vicinity of field or in pattern with engine problems

[@aviationcyqr9737]

So good!!!

[@jeffschreiber7961]

I fly a Piper Arrow with the Hershey bar wing. With the gear down & prop forward no flaps it seems to get me right about where I need to be

[@nikmannino8577]

4:58 beginning of 3rd runway stripe

[@ICTSkyBro]

Curious. I’ve heard of doing this maneuver at best glide, rather than our normal pattern speeds. What is the difference of schools of thought. Also plan to bring this to my CFI as a question, but curious of your opinion as well.

[@MrMercy1966]

My instructor taught me this when I was getting my private, but he called it simulating engine failure, same technique hitting that mark I guess he was teaching me in advance.

[@coasternut3091]

Our rule is to not put in flaps until your on your final. You can always lose airspeed and altitude, you can't get it back

[@eb5908]

Agreed, plus if you come up short, you can pop a notch on final and get some sweet sweet ground effect float if need be

[@fobypawz418]

After playing with WW1 biplane simulators all the time, I pretty much enjoy doing this type of maneuver which involves side slips to manage energy as many of those planes don't even have flaps or even proper throttle control (eg: engine only goes low to high rpm), and the nose is too big to see straight ahead.

[@Phantomwray]

Is the intro music original or is it from some song? It seems so familiar but I can't place where it's from. Great content, BTW! I'm getting back into flying after a 17 year hiatus and your videos are helping me get my head back in the game.

[@TheFinerPoints]

Awesome, thanks! The music is composed and performed by my former band mate Michael Bizar

[@billwaliaula1512]

@ Raymond Clarke, I think you might be thinking of the burn notice theme song 🎶

[@Phantomwray]

@@billwaliaula1512 I've never seen that before but I looked it up and there may be some similarities but I think maybe I've just listened to Jason's theme song enough that it got stuck in my head and I thought it came from elsewhere. It's very catchy.

[@mattbasford6299]

My primary training was obviously much different than you train. It was all about feel. I never paid any attention to "flying by numbers." I couldn't tell you what speeds I fly on downwind, base, or final. I just look outside the window and land the plane. It made instrument training a lot harder when I had a different CFI who assumed I had been trained to stare at the instrument panel and fly by numbers.

[@smurf101100]

You shouldn’t ‘stare’ at the numbers as you said even if you’re flying a speed, you should simply reference it and include it as part of your scan. Using your purely by sight and feel principle works but doesn’t allow for any real precision or variation. All it takes is a change in seat height in a different aircraft and the sight that you’re used to will change and without reference to your instruments, that could end badly. There is a place for flying by feel, but it’s in extreme STOL and not normal ops.

[@mattbasford6299]

@@smurf101100 if a pilot can't make adjustments based on seat adjustment, he isn't much of a pilot.

[@xanderw1460]

Yea "flying by feel" sounds super groovy until you get disoriented one time and fail to properly interpret your instruments. The point of having instruments is that humans are inherently susceptible to certain very well known perceptual and cognitive errors. Your senses will fail you but your ASI probably won't.

[@applerokka]

Can you "over" slip and flip and stall?

[@johnparkman8150]

Ok...two questions...1...you dumped 10 degrees of flaps at 110 knots....I was always taught no flaps before the white arc...and 2...why no carb heat? Always taught carb heat at 1900 rpms or lower???

[@THATFlightSimDude]

I don't know if he gets to all of the questions so I'd thought I'd try to answer you. Most 172's will allow 10 degrees of flaps below 110 knots (check in your POH), then white arc for 20 to full. I am currently training in a 172N and my instructor has been teaching no flaps until white arc so that is what I am currently doing, but I used to train in a 172R and would throw in the first notch of flaps below 110 kts. For your second question, I think he said no carb heat because he is flying a fuel injected airplane in the video which does not have carb heat. Being a flight instructor, he probably flies multiple types of airplanes and was just running through his normal before landing checklist or flow-check. Carb heat is on his flow check, but does not apply to the airplane he is flying in the video. If your airplane has carb heat, you would turn it on below the green arc in your tachometer as you stated. Hope this helps you.

[@johnparkman8150]

@@THATFlightSimDude i get the no carb heat with fuel injection...I just got my tailwheel endorsement today in a Citabria with fuel injection...just wish he had clarified it...appreciate the response though...thanks

[@thebluebaron1563]

yup. you hit it...great job! Yes I'm a critic, but, you make it, you make it :)

[@N937LC]

Now do an overhead approach. I thought it was the same honestly, just a different name and well ”approach”. In a motorized glider, we pull the power a beam and the rest is common but then we have speed brakes to control decent.

[@WoutervanTiel]

David, what do you fly.

[@N937LC]

Mostly pipistrel sinus/virus at the moment.

[@WoutervanTiel]

@@N937LC I just bought a Sinus.

[@N937LC]

@@WoutervanTiel nice!!

[@wingsleveladventures]

That plane is at my flight school now!

[@wingsleveladventures]

787LF, the one in the thumbnail

[@acuramastertech7959]

This is a power off maneuver on the acs indicates a loss engine maneuver you cannot go around on the commercial power off 180, but on the private short field landing

[@TheFinerPoints]

Yes that change is part of the new ACS

[@stanspiper]

Great!

[@ragzpar]

On both the approaches shown in the video, Jason overshot the base leg, blew through final of 22L and nearly reached the final path of 25R. That's a disaster waiting to happen. Could have used slip / flaps / geometry better than messing up like that on both occasions.

[@flyguy1637]

I don’t use flaps initially! The rest is good!

[@LTVoyager]

It is funny how things have changed. When I got my license in 1979 from a crusty old instructor, power-off 180 landings were the normal way we landed. He was dead set against landing using a power-on approach. It is pretty easy to land like this when it is what you do every time. I know many will raise the “shock cooling” alarm, but my instructor was also the airport manager, the airport A&P, the local DE and flew charter and scenic rides. He owned and operated five airplanes: 2 - C150s, 1 - C172, and 2 - 182s. He flew most of his scenic flights in the 182s and this consisted of a take-off, 10 minute flight and then a power-off landing and shutdown to discharge passengers and get the next batch. He maintained his own airplanes and did his own overhauls and said shock cooling was a myth. His operating track record seemed to support that as his airplanes always ran to TBO and were some of the hardest used airplanes I’ve seen.

[@SVSky]

I learned exclusively power off 180, but my instructor was an acro/glider pilot. It was a little bit of a wake up to realize not everyone did it that way. As a hang glider pilot transitioning to GA it came naturally.

[@brandandadoun222]

PPL ACS says establish Vg not VFE first... can you explain why you went to VFE and not Vg?

[@WoutervanTiel]

I have four tools: spoilers on my motorglider.

[@TheFinerPoints]

color me jealous. (except when I'm in a Mooney) 😜

[@SVSky]

Pulling Gs to bleed off energy too!

[@hadleymanmusic]

We were doin 720°'s off the threshhold and engine out. 700'. He said" think you can hold it on while I go thru restart? I said yes I have control. Next thing, " Hey watch your airspeed" " your gonna stall us". I said" nuh uh, you see those chevrons down there"? And pushed it over. We restarted right at touchdown and more than half a runway left stoppin after halfway. It was night too. Hell if I didnt have instruments id be stickin my head out the window

[@flyingheadband]

Why would you not pitch for best glide immediately and carry that speed all the way through till touchdown? Upon an engine failure establishing best glide should always be the first step. Why not reinforce that habit in the pattern as well?

[@guoseph]

My DPE said no go arounds for the Power of 180 (CSEL) :(

[@dylanhammonds5270]

why add flaps right away make sure you hit point first?

[@ParadiseHomeProducts]

You’re not able to go around on PO180 in the new Commercial ACS as of May 2024.

[@TheFinerPoints]

😳

[@ChimkenNuggers]

I don't have an issue with the P180 pulling power abeam the touchdown point. My issue is when (and this is mostly the case) tower extends your downwind and then the power is "at my discretion". I really can't grasp where to pull power at that point especially on a straight in approach. It seems more like a gamble especially with gusty wind conditions. This is so brutally annoying

[@chucklemasters6433]

why not aim for the grass and touch down on the end of the runway? what you said is spot on, you will always float 4 to 600' depending on wind and how well you maintain airspeed so just float over the grass and touch down on the end. you have more control if you come in low instead of high. if you are too high and have extended all flaps and slip there is nothing else you can do to get lower. if you are low you can use power to get to the runway and chop power as soon as you r ready to touch down. a great way to aid in your accuracy touch down point is to fly the downwind at 80 instead of 100 or more in aircraft with more powerful engines. so when you reach pattern altitude after turning downwind just reduce power a;nd watch the nose drop until the VSI goes to zero fpm. it is a very short distance to the approach end of the runway so why fly at cruise power? this is the key to shortening up your approaches.

[@Timberns]

You don’t go around on a simulated engine out landing unless you’re going to overrun the end of the runway… If it’s dangerous to finish the landing… You’ll just have to plan to retake your check ride.

[@aero3085]

If only I could take my commercial ck ride in California. 72F, 5KT head wind on landing. I live at a high elevation with constant gusting/shifting wind. There is absolutely no way I would deploy flaps prior to really knowing I needed them on this maneuver.

[@frednorthup1657]

Why don't we always use this procedure? I always practice it this way. It's not difficult to land with power and drag it in but how many wouldn't make it to the runway with an engine out.

[@TheFinerPoints]

It’s my default, I try to always land this way.

[@WingtipstudioCA]

I learned to fly in a grass field in Argentina - in a PA-11- the last century :D and this was the only way we used to land. Fast Forward, 30 years later, did my PPL again here in the US, and I realized after my first “extend downwind into Moffett airspace approved” that I will need to improvise quite a bit, and power off landings would be the exception. Now working on my commercial, enjoying this technique a lot. Great video!

[@mannypuerta5086]

A common error I see is not taking into account the headwind when turning final, which steepens the profile resulting in a short landing. Some folks don’t have a commercial, and if they do, they haven’t done this in a long time. The result? Embarrassment when attempted. Practice this, folks. You never know when you’ll need it for real.

[@747-pilot]

Yes, that's right! Not just headwind, but crosswind can have a huge impact too! (as it pushes you toward or away from the runway, as you're turning base). I practiced the p/off 180 at least 50 or 60 times before my commercial checkride in different wind conditions. I'm sure I would not have passed this maneuver (and the checkride), if I had not practiced it this much! And yes, you do lose proficiency in this maneuver quite easily! I did my checkride in 2019, about a year and half back, and I'm sure I could not replicate it today again, without a good deal of practice!

[@mannypuerta5086]

@@747-pilot And you’re on the 74 now...or just wishful thinking?

[@747-pilot]

@@mannypuerta5086 "wishful thinking" would be right on mark! 😂 Everyone thinks I'm a 74 pilot, but that screen name was supposed to be my eventual "goal". And I wanted to grab the name before it was taken by someone else! I got my instrument and commercial back in 2019, and am currently in the process of finishing up my CFI / CFII. I suppose, before this "plague" that goal would have been possible within a few years, but now with a hair over 500 total hours in my logbook, it is all up in the air. There is a KZbin personality, who was a regional FO for just one year, and lost her job. Now she's in training to be a cargo 747 FO. So, well, there are still opportunities if one looks for them it appears!

[@mannypuerta5086]

@@747-pilot Well, good luck. I’m retired from the jets, so all is well during these trying times. Be persistent and be prepared for opportunity.

[@747-pilot]

@@mannypuerta5086 Thanks for the good wishes!

[@epictetus9766]

04:41 looks like an unbalanced steep turn at 600ft....eeek!

[@daxtonbrooks2054]

Acs doesn’t allow for a go around

[@brulez123]

Nail your spot every time except for the second time in the video :D

[@TheFinerPoints]

😂😂😂🤦🏻‍♂️

[@MAGApepe]

is that legal flying from the right seat ?

[@TheFinerPoints]

It is. The only limitation I have is that I can't use the autopilot. Not sure why, but it's a limitation in the POH.