What is the point of Minecraft?

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My previous video got a ton of views, comments, and overall engagement. I wanted to respond to rebuttals and clarify some points I made as well as delve a little deeper into what Minecraft is really about.
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[@TheGeekFactor_]

I actually have one more thing I’d like to add: I disagree with my point about automation. I think automation is really cool in some aspects. I love redstone and it’s seriously impressive what people can do. I don’t think I emphasized that enough in my previous video. My issue is with people who specifically automate everything and abuse the game’s mechanics only to then go “muh why game boring?” My brother in christ, you sucked the fun out of it for yourself lol

[@lesuu]

i 100% agree, i do think automation could be brought in a better way like you explained in your first video. Making an iron farm from a design you stole online isnt fun or engaging. I think it's why Create is such a widely popular mod, because it makes automation really fun and engaging where just looking up a tutorial online often isn't even that useful. you make your own machines to satisfy your own needs and those needs are unique depending on where you're building, how much space you have, what your power situation looks like, all these things

[@The_Yeet]

Thank you for saying this. As someone who loves automating stuff, I find a ton of fun in the process of building more and more farms. So to have someone say that automation is bad (not saying that's exactly what you said), kinda hurts a little.

[@TheGeekFactor_]

@@lesuuwouldn’t it be cool if mojang made an iron farm that didn’t force players to take advantage of villager mechanics; a thing that is seemingly unrelated

[@krishm7812]

the thing is that some people find taking advantage of the games mechanics to be fun. it also allows them to have more freedom to build in survival, where everything feels like more of an accomplishment, since you did it all by yourself

[@erakacheron]

​@@TheGeekFactor_ I've been thinking along similar lines for a while, and I landed on the idea of budding metal ore blocks that would generate sparsely throughout the large ore veins added in 1.18. Those ore veins are pretty great and can be absolutely enormous, but currently they ultimately will run dry of their resources and their utility to the player. The block would essentially just be a budding amethyst block for iron and copper, depending on the vein it generated in, and would be an immovable, renewable source of it's respective ore. This would make large ore veins a much more viable prospect to set up builds around as they would effectively be inexhaustible, thus allowing the patching of the current Iron Golem slaughterhouses and their replacement with a more intuitive, intentional and perhaps balanced method of iron renewability.

[@AwesomeDomi1]

It’s not just about the progression being extremely short, it’s the fact that it barely received change in like 12 years! When it started out in 1.0 it was a good idea with room to improve, but when you don’t add any major changes in 12 years, yeah it becomes boring. That’s why I’m going to be starting a 1.6.4 mod pack series because I enjoy old modded Minecraft way more than modern vanilla versions

[@kingducky7123]

What, brother most mods are updated to atleast 1.18 and you get nicer caves :p

[@AwesomeDomi1]

@@kingducky7123 I literally said “I enjoy old modded Minecraft” so why would I play new ones lol? Also my favorite mods aren’t updated like orespawn, Rival rebels, Godzilla, etc

[@jaydenc367]

I mean...it has changed quite a bit in ways though. It still hasn`t become boring tbh.

[@AwesomeDomi1]

@@jaydenc367the main progression only had things like elytra and netherite added, most updates just added cosmetic things, you still do the same things: get wood, get stone, build a house, get iron, get diamonds, maybe get netherite, fight wither and ender dragon, and that’s basically it, everything else you have to make up

[@iPengusYT]

​@@AwesomeDomi1 R.I.P. Orespawn..

[@JessJ_698]

Im someone who doesn’t care about progression too much. I love building and exploring. But even I see myself often getting bored with nothing to do. I don’t think we need MUCH progression, but I think having much more lasting and impactful progression would make me want to play longer

[@MuteMar]

Mods are cool for this if you just play vanilla. Not all of them change the game completely. * if you're on java, I don't know what bedrock's like

[@tronic560]

"When people claim that Minecraft is about building, they're kind of wrong." - 11:10 Me with fully enchanted netherite armour living in my 5x5 cave 'base' that I mined out within the first two minutes of my world:

[@neolordie]

Yeah, that

[@avacadonacho]

Minecraft is about survival/creativity & the different ways of doing those two things.

[@pati6352]

Exactly my style

[@bazingaswine424]

I think the issue with Minecraft's progression is that its implementation falls flat, in the way that, it doesn't encourage the player to interact with the contents of the world. Minecraft is a survival sandbox game, yet for some reason both of those factors feel largely disconnected between themselves. The game fails at using the survival aspects to extrinsically give goals to the player, that would then guide them into engaging with the sandbox aspect more and thus help the player find their own intrinsic goals. You can't simply throw any player into a world and expect them to continue playing solely through their own intrinsic goals. Some people can find intrinsic goals on their own, but not all people can and a good sandbox needs to subtly guide the player into engaging with the world, so they can then start looking inwards on their own. The easiest way to prove this imbalance is simply by the sheer volume of washed up mechanics and natural constructs that players simply ignore, not to their own fault, as the game's balancing has been horrendous. As per your example with the ocean monument, why go to one when a random and far more common and easier to loot shipwreck can give better loot? And then involving mechanics, look at travel, why make minecarts? Just use boats with ice, it's even cheaper! Why use horses? Just fly around with your elytra, there's zero disadvantages. Why even go caving for loot? Hunting for natural constructs like shipwrecks and trading through villagers gives you an abundance of loot right off the bat. There's so many paths a player can take, which is good! But many of them are strictly worse than others in both yield and efficiency, there's simply nothing unique between the different options. Furthermore, there's even many of the newer additions that are standalone and don't compare to anything else but also don't provide much of anything. Why go through the arduous process of acquiring and hatching a sniffer egg, for 2 flowers that don't even have unique features? Where's the payoff? All in all, Minecraft absolutely has the tools to create a better environment regarding progression and tying it with intrinsic goals, it's always had them, but they have not used them properly to balance the game and its varying ranges of its freedom, often making a lot of additions feel meaningless and thus discourage the player from interacting with the rest of the world.

[@MinorLife10]

I think one just kinda needs to find your own goal on their own

[@Dojafish]

​@@talonthief1494yeah so genuine criticism that they basically backfire themselves. They acknowledge that the game is a sandbox game with internal motivation. The game already sets up things to make the players to exertnaly motivated . The hunger system and hostile mobs already give a reason to progress through the game . But still the end game and main goal of the game is what you want .

[@Dojafish]

The fact you acknowledge that Minecraft is a sandbox game with internal motivation as it goal ,but still end up to make the same stupid argument. 1. The game already has external motivation involved, through the hunger system and hostile mobs . Even the simple progression from wood to iron contributes to it . 2. Things like elytra ,boat traveling with ice and Villager training are end game content or need hours of work to be made . Literally for most players they won't have an easy access to them . The reason why horses exist is because they are an early form of transportation, also elytra isn't that useful without fireworks . 3. Minecraft gives many options for the player to progress ,while yes some are batter than others ,I think that's a more overall strength than a negative . If you are skilled enough you can create a nether portal with just a bucket ! Maybe some options are simply better but they also take alot of time to be made or need more skill to do ,something not everyone can do or is willing to do .

[@emidemi7211]

This is literally it. This is the one thing that Minecraft should DEFINITELY take notes from Terraria on. They add so many features that are just. not good??? I've looked at so many update changelogs, thought "I'm not going to use any of these things", and immediately stopped caring. The devs always talk about how designing features takes so much effort and time but it doesn't even actually seem like they think about them that much, because honestly, my Minecraft experience is practically the same as it was 4 major updates ago with some new blocks. It's so weird.

[@Dojafish]

@@emidemi7211 Because minecraft ain't Terraria. Just because you won't use them doesn't mean anybody else will .

[@Vyrvaraneth]

I think my biggest issue with enjoying Minecraft is how good I’ve gotten at it over the years, which in turn makes progression incredibly simple and easy because I know EXACTLY what I’m doing now. Y’know the whole: “Gamers will optimize the fun out of the game,” is very true. So, I’m thinking of making a new world and just giving myself a wall of restrictions/self imposed challenges, and see how that goes. No enchants, villagers, using rockets with elytra, no over-torching or walling off my base from mobs, natural regeneration, etc. Essentially FORCING myself to explore, be more creative, etc, since I can’t just: “Hurr durr god enchanted items that never break,” “Elytra + rockets invalidate almost all forms of travel,” etc. So, I’ll dedicate some time over the next 1-2 weeks to that, and see how this: “forced progression” goes for me! I’ll probably post an update some point soon 🙏

[@Alansaad_]

I think you should play beta 1.7.3 for a few days and see how you will do. If you don't agree, then watch dialko's 1 year world tour. He has the best build imaginations ever

[@Vyrvaraneth]

@@Alansaad_ I would so play 1.7.3 if I could, but I’m locked to console right now 💔. I like, literally don’t have room for a pc in my room right now lmfao. But yyeah that was essentially what I was getting at! Make it more like older versions, with no enchants y’know; I can’t walk out of a cave with a stack of diamonds without fortune y’know lmao. And yyeah I watched Dialko’s video on Minecraft creepy pasta, good stuff. So I’ll be sure to check out more of his stuff 🤝

[@oopruh]

Also try Beta 1.8.1, it is the same as 1.0 with the hunger bar and natural regeneration, except no brewing, enchants, villages have no mobs, no breeding, bows have infinite durability, but from Beta 1.7.3 now have charging your bow. In other words, it has all you need.

[@teshtishtoshtesh3218]

That's more or less what Hardcore mode is for, so yes, there's good precedent for using limitations to create new experiences. Good luck with it! I've shifted the other direction over the years, much more likely to play in Creative than Survival. Minecraft is a creative outlet more than anything at this point.

[@areaxisthegurkha]

@@Vyrvaraneth if you have an xbox 360, you can jailbreak it to play Minecraft Beta 1.7.3 console edition. Or else you could downgrade an existing Minecraft xbox 360 copy of the game without any jailbreak system.

[@jonaw.2153]

Minecraft is about whatever I want it to be at the time I play it. When I'm feeling lonely, Minecraft is about finding meaning in an empty world. When I feel happy, Minecraft is about community. When I'm feeling daring, Minecraft can be about horror and eeriness. When I'm feeling adventurous, Minecraft is about going on an epic journey and fighting a dragon. Minecraft is about making the best of what you're given, in the way you want to.

[@BlueJay73va]

Minecraft is an absolutely amazing game. It truly is one of the greatest forms of expressions in our time. There's also so much good that the game does. A friend of mine is a child therapist, and I've been helping her build a Minecraft world for the kids she works with in order to use the game as a safe space to help work out their issues, and it's coming along quite well. There's also the massive library that people made in Minecraft to help certain pieces of literature and news reports get into countries that would otherwise censor and ban them. Most of all, it has a great community filled with friendly and funny and talented people, who have a tendency to help each other out. In other games I've played, if you ask for help as a beginner, you often get laughed at or called a "filthy casual" or whatever, but never once in my life have I seen that in the Minecraft community. Whenever someone asks for help, people swarm them to give them advice, share their knowledge, and send links to helpful sources for them. Plus the art that these people make is breathtaking. Entire life-size cities made in hardcore survival, adventure maps with incredible writing and creative use of the game's basic tools, parkour maps that people love to play over and over and over again. My personal favorite is an old Minecraft Let's Play back from like, 2012ish, that starts out as a basic guide to the game, but gradually builds up an amazing narrative with twists and turns and an amazing climax that really emphasizes what Minecraft is about. I'm thankful that we all have a game as amazing as Minecraft at our fingertips, flaws included.

[@kyceessadki2501]

also the extrinsic progression also hides the intrinsic progression as it focuses your attention on it, and if you complete all the extrinsic goals, then it feels like there's nothing else to do, despite the intrinsic goals you can make. that's why people go through the "2 week minecraft phase" now, because they complete all the extrinsic goals and forget that you can do whatever you want.

[@ambientNexus]

If I wanted to do "whatever I wanted", I'd have started up a creative world and just skipped the extrinsic goals entirely. The lack of progression and meaningful progression gating means there's no real reason to bother with intrinsically motivated works in survival, outside of some self-imposed challenge you're bothering with for no reason. Extrinsic motivation would keep you invested in a world, which would fuel intrinsic motivation through that passion for the world you're progressing through.

[@KYCDK]

@@ambientNexusyes, but that’s boring because it doesn’t have challenge, that’s the thing with minecraft it isn’t just about doing whatever you want it’s also about surviving and gathering the means to do whatever you want.

[@KYCDK]

@@ambientNexusno, the extrinsic progression doesn’t keep you invested in the world because intrinsic progression is by its nature limited. The devs can’t make an infinite amount of extrinsic goals they can’t get close to the amount of goals you can set for yourself

[@KYCDK]

@@ambientNexusI’m making an observation, in modern minecraft we have more extrinsic goals than ever YET PEOPLE ARE GETTING BOTED AFTER THEY COMPLETE THEM. Back in the old days before all these extrinsic goals, worlds would last for ages

[@ambientNexus]

@@KYCDK As other people have said about Minecraft's newer content, it's as wide as an ocean, but as deep as a puddle. The content they keep adding lacks any sort of depth to it whatsoever, so people burn through it extremely quickly. Since people have been playing Minecraft for so long, they're tired of the same old general loop with no complex changes whatsoever. Some people still retain investment, sure, but for most people who can't retain their investment into their worlds, putting them in an older version isn't going to somehow fix everything.

[@AtomicRobloxProductions]

I actually like this video a lot more than your last one talking about Minecraft's progression. It feels a lot clearer cut and easy to understand whereas the first one felt like you were comparing Terraria a bit too heavily with Minecraft. This video is straightforward and clarifies your point so much more and what you're trying to say WITH the comparison. The original felt like your point was bogged down by too many comparisons at some points. In my opinion at least. As for a lot of features feeling half-assed and structures feeling pointless.. I really agree with you here. I wish they had added more interesting loot to multiple structures, or at least reasons to go to them. For me, one of the things that makes this point stick out to me greatly is Woodland Mansions. Like.. I'd argue the main reason to go to them is to look for totems of undying, but that's not always even the case, you can get them from raids on villages! They feel, while quite neat in design.. pointless, like you said. For me, I tend to go to them because Mojang decided to only have the Allay spawn inside these structures, and I actually like the allay both as a pet and a useful mob. But it feels like it's addition to the mansion feels.. last minute. Like, it feels like they were thinking they might as well add it to the mansions because people think structures are mostly boring. It also feels that way with the sniffer and its egg being found in ocean ruins. It feels like they're trying to add band aids to structures and make them more worth exploring but.. not, really.. adding anything that sticks out at the same time, or at least something non-mob related. There really should be more variety, or at least something that stands out much more in these structures that players would want to get other than a mob many would argue is useless. Apologies if my previous comment on your other video talking about progression seemed aggressive or mean spirited, and in the off chance that you see this, hope you have a good night or day wherever you may be! I think this format of video got your point across much better than the last.

[@plumfadoodle4908]

Last Update did really help with that with the Armor Trims. With it giving more incentive to go to almost every structure in the game. Plus I'm confident Archeology will be implemented in more structures, just like Desert Temples and Wells were.

[@GikamesShadow]

@@plumfadoodle4908 Problem is that Armor Trims dont add much to gameplay. They are collectables. Thats it. And sure they have a use but Ill be honest: We already had that in the game before. We just didnt have Armor Trims. Armor doesnt change based on that. And the only one that does is Netherite. AND the worst part comes now: Once you have one, its just a grindfest for diamonds to get more.

[@plumfadoodle4908]

@@GikamesShadow Armor Trims provide a lot for servers and player customization that could not be done before. It's allows players to have a better time making their look distinct and to their style. This is why they were a wanted feature. Without just being in Enchanted Netherite all the time with everyone else. And it provides a use for Diamonds after years of Diamonds not having any. It's not like you're going to be using that many diamonds for anything else. Armor Trims are a feature that greatly incentives exploration and self expression, which is what 1.20 was all about.

[@jaydenc367]

I agree...the last video did NOT need to be nearly as long as it was. The features are not all half assed like armor trims for example and most structures don`t feel pointless. I mean not pointless....there is just good loot in general there AND a nice base to live in. I disagree, it feels fitting really. Well it also fits since Allays are related to Vexes. How did it feel that way with Sniffers? Not really, they do add stuff that sticks out at the same time, and stuff mob related. True.

[@strikingsarcophagus]

Gotta disagree. The point was very easy to understand and the comparisons were really on the nose. He stated several times they aren't the same game and they shouldn't be. He basically just restated it in this video for the people in the back who somehow didn't hear it the first time. The only reason it feels more concise now is because of the added context of the prior video. This is just reinforcing several points he already made

[@firestarter6488]

If you want actual progression in a game somewhat similar to Minecraft, Vintage Story has all that you need!

[@himbalodzodenever]

Man getting a full blackguard armor feels a million times better than a fully enchanted nentherite set

[@TheGeekFactor_]

You should watch the video to the end hehe

[@Landjrin]

Terraria.

[@ivanlagayacrus1891]

im convinced all these vintage story comments are bots they all read exactly the same in every video lmfao

[@himbalodzodenever]

@@ivanlagayacrus1891I stand by vintage story. It has a dev team that actually cares about the community

[@ImminentFates]

I think the problem with the last video was the fact you had direct comparisons but they were surrounded by the presentation being very terraria heavy I actually found myself at one point being like what the hell thought this was about minecraft but luckily I stopped myself and actually processed what you were saying further

[@alureon25]

I understand your perspective… it’s disappointing to see your favorite game fall short because of some fixable issues. These points definitely come out of love for the game and a desire to make it the best it can be.

[@Dojafish]

By fixable issues ,you mean basically narrow minded critism?

[@darthlmr7990]

@@Dojafish Care to elaborate?

[@lasercraft32]

On the topic of progression, its a little silly how huge of a jump there is between iron and diamond, and how much smaller the jump between diamond and netherite is in comparison. But of course they won't add anything in between... that's _too different,_ and will harm that precious nostalgia, y'know? That's one of my personal pet peeves about the game. They don't want to make meaningful updates because they're more afraid of angering the nostalgic fans rather than making a well-designed game. And yeah, for every person saying they need a combat update and better progression, there are people cursing Mojang's name because their beloved childhood game is so different (and yeah, its been over a decade, it _should_ be different). I for one quite love a lot of the new features. I wish they weren't so bland and surface level, but there's a lot of untapped potential there, and conceptually they're great.

[@Gigi4u]

I really didn't get why netherite had to get nerfed. It isn't much stronger than diamonds and outside of armor didn't provide much except of the loadstone. At least they could have buffed netherite armor so getting is more worth it.

[@The_Yeet]

I feel like people who are against Mojang changing the game should take a look at their launcher, and see the fact they can start the game in ANY version they want.

[@miimiiandco.8721]

But there's a gigantic chasm between diamond and fully enchanted diamond, and not a very fun one imo.

[@lasercraft32]

@@miimiiandco.8721 Its not that hard if you have villagers (though... you're technically still right. It isn't that fun lol).

[@neolordie]

​@@lasercraft32you don't even have to have villagers, enchanting is basically free if you have a half decent mob tower or you found a spawner or two

[@patrickd2853]

What would be interesting would be an alchemy or reputation system. Reputation in particularly would be really interesting, having to make more spacious villager halls and provide some supplies. Also, it may be interesting to have like shards in different structures to make artefacts which could be given to different villages in different biomes to unlock special items. By making only some accessible after defeating bosses (beating the elder guardian allows player to enter a section of the ocean like a Peruma triangle with many new islands and stuff, wither = citadel or something and etc…) it could add more progression while also giving players a choice if they want to do that.

[@CDYT]

Interestingly enough, a reputation system of some sorts does actually exist right now for villages, it’s just really basic.

[@SlayingtheGloom]

Minecraft seems to be about intrinsic goals. Most things the player does give no material benefit. You can get enchanted diamond armor without fighting a single enemy, and once you have the best equipment in the game, there’s no practical purpose to do anything else. Minecraft expects the player to think “oh I want to build a cool labyrinth” and then go do it. They don’t give you any reason to want to build a labyrinth other than personal satisfaction. Minecraft makes its “main quest” intentionally boring so that players will make their own goals. Personally, I’m not sure this was a good decision. They should have at least stuck to their decision and not added a “main quest” to begin with. They should have just stuck to their original philosophy and kept the game open ended.

[@kingwolf9447]

Minecraft is intentionally empty in its required content, to force the player to use their imagination

[@neolordie]

Well yeah, the issue is really that the base game is about intrinsic goals, and they added extrinsic ones, but they're scared to change the game too much so now they're halfassing both

[@Dojafish]

Yeah because that how intrinsic games are made ,who would have thought.

[@kingwolf9447]

I see minecraft as a partially blank canvas, one that has some paint here and there, but its not the focal point of the Canvas. Meaning it is essentially what the player makes of it.

[@LazerDisk]

Loved the video! I’d love for you to think about this possibility: Extrinsic motivators over the years have declined in quality, even if they have grown their amount. The desperate need to survive pushed players to build, seek resources, and make fun things. The basic need to survive pushed you to experience most of it. At the end of the day, I think more overarching needs that allow for an insurmountable amount of ways to play is what I think Minecraft needs.

[@dxcvvxd]

i COMPLETELY agree with you about the implemented proggression being too unobtrusive to the point of it basically not existing minecraft is getting bigger, much heavier on the systems too and when there's not really a lot of content that is worth all these stored bytes, it really feels very unnecessary and useless. (im more of a tech nerd so i care about ones and zeros being useful and having purpose instead of just being there, at this point i can just downgrade to 1.18.2 because i havent explored almost any of the new content added since then)

[@ILikedGooglePlus]

Have you guys considered that Minecraft is 13 years old, and you've all just kinda completed it? Like, so many people play this game so much, you've all collectively mined to its core, there's nothing left. And the online culture around it is kinda to blame, (not to suggest the fandom is bad, just a side effect). A conplete beginner to this game now can just go on Google or youtube and immediately get a million clear instructions on how to auto-farm everything. And if you don't, you sorta feel like youre missing out, youre not playing correctly, or whatever. I'm able to resist that, because I'm so lonely, but I can imagine the pull it has on many others

[@editdotexe]

I think that could be part of it, but if it was just that then the same would be true for Terraria. Not to say they aren't different games, just an interesting thought why Terraria doesn't seem to have this problem. Or maybe we want more out of Minecraft? There is a lot to do with Minecraft, but after awhile you realize it's like that saying "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle" where you go from thing to thing having fun, but realize there isn't much to do in any one thing past the surface level. The only real thing that has enough depth to continue doing if you like it is redstone and building, since there is an emergent gameplay from the almost infinite ways you could put blocks together, and the tons of different things you can make with redstone inherent with a system that can make logic gates. But I don't think much of that extends to survival. I don't know, maybe I'm talking out of my ass here.

[@firestar-kr5iw]

Your point on the ocean monument specifically hits home for me. I’ve played on the same Minecraft world since 2018. I sometimes don’t play Minecraft for a few months at a time but when I do it’s on that world. And I’ve never went in an ocean monument in that world. There’s basically nothing I need there except sponges would be useful. But the fact I have double chests upon double chests of sand and an instamine shovel makes the challenge of getting a few sponges not worth it at all for me.

[@nisseheim4996]

You never needed or wanted a single conduit? No dark prismarine? The time and effort you'd spend on raiding monuments would be won back quickly IF you want to do a proper draining project, and double chests of sand don't last long anyway. With that said, not everything in the game can be expected to be useful or interesting to every player, and that's ok. I don't know why some players have such a hard time accepting this. People constantly complain about copper usefullness and that tells me one thing: they're not into building.

[@Whydidimakethisa]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@nisseheim4996 honestly though copper is kinda ugly as a building block too ocean monuments are extra special though, there is legitimately no reason to visit this structure other than to get sponges and maybe an elder guardian for that one goofy achievement The structure offers nothing cool, the trident would be a nice reward for going through a monument, would get rid of the biggest problems with both the monument and the trident But what do you get? a block thats only needed in very specific scenarios and gold on a side note, the conduit isn’t exactly worth making unless you want some sort of underwater base

[@ConstantinSPurcea]

I have never, ever gone into an ocean monument after the first time many many years ago just to see how it is and cause I wanted sponge.

[@barry63196]

3:42 you don't need to do that, just place a single falling block (sand, gravel, whatever) on top of the tnt before igniting it

[@BasementDweller_]

The point of the game is to find a point.

[@krishm7812]

minecraft is about something, its about you, the player and your journey, discovering yourself and doing what you want to do

[@N_N_NMoon]

The recent progression video was amazing and I agree with many points covered especially the variation in mobs. Just giving mobs more variation would help the game out significantly. Tipped arrow skeletons, different random health. More equipment and better AI. Different skins would also be insanely interesting. Imagine slightly variated textures instead of the same monotonous one. Another example I can think of the the new /scale command. Imagine mobs spawning with slightly different sizes! Just like ever so variated sizes could spice things up soo much. It could break some farms but honestly I think that’s fine.

[@that1gameguy]

I really think Balance is the crux of the issue. Minecraft's core progression and gameplay loop is engaging, but the problem is its still designed for beta 1.7.3. The player is so much faster, stronger, and can acquire more loot than the game's core systems were meant to account for. It leads to this strange dissonance where it feels like another game is slowly taking over. The more intrinsic players are having a field day with all the unbalanced content because they can just skip the whole game and get strong enough to build ridiculous farms and megastructures. While the rest of us are left wondering why the game doesn't feel right. Which is leading to people retreating to older versions and alternate timeline mods.

[@BigMastah79]

You have a somewhat correct idea but it’s flawed. The game is pretty easy, yes, but that’s a good thing in the bigger picture. Basic Survival in minecraft should be easy, it’s meant to be a fun, relaxing experience. Challenge should be given in the form of structures or unique areas. Even though the player can sprint and stuff, many areas of the game are still challenging. Large caves overwhelm you with mobs, the Deep Dark has unique stealth mechanics, and other structures like Bastions and Trial Chambers challenge the player without forcing themselves upon the player. The player should WANT to explore these challenges through incentives which is an issue the game has with loot, but the foundation is there and is being expanded upon. The game should provide more challenges and rewards for players who are extrinsically motivated, but at the end of the day, intrinsic goals need to be the endgame. I’d love to figure out a way to give combat and exploration motivated players intrinsic goals, perhaps with something like customizable raids.

[@redknives6667]

​@@BigMastah79imo iron/diamond and below should remain roughly the same progression-wise, but I also do think adding a few progression tiers that rely on more than just mining would be a nice change of pace. Netherite would have been much nicer as a potential upgrade path for diamond tools that mainly just some durability and lava resistance, while something like echo shards could allow you to simply have those tools stay with you on death in exchange for some durablility loss when they do. Rn diamond as a tier was strong enough and using branching upgrade paths like this would incentivise you to explore more areas to obtain these useful upgrades, while also not stopping you from just getting more durable tools if that suits you.

[@BigMastah79]

@@redknives6667 Echo Shard armor and tools, no. But I am all for branching endgame armor sets

[@redknives6667]

@@BigMastah79 echo shards were moreso an example of what could be than something that'd likely be in the game. Though I do think the branching endgame upgrade materials should involve less mining and are more focused on exploration as a means of obtainment. Upgrade templates could serve as another barrier to entry to these branching sets and could serve as a use for some netherite scraps by making it craftable from like four of them + a diamond or something similar.

[@neonsmith2802]

Your first video was fantastic. I started working on a modpack without sprint and hunger mechanics. It'll be the first time playing without them since they came out :)

[@MuteMar]

I haven't played terraria myself, but from what I've seen, Terraria at it's core is more about going out and fighting bosses and Minecraft is more about building houses. In other words, Minecraft is really intrinsically motivated and to add progression to the game you need to have it center around helping the player do what they want to do. If they did a mini update that just made it so that horses need to eat wheat to survive, added a horse harvester + replanter that works in a 3x1 area in front of the horse, and gave horses some sort other purpose like pulley systems that can move small platforms or some pack animal behaviour alongside some more reasons to move items from point A to point B, you would change the whole meta of the game. I don't know the last time I've tamed a horse and farming stops being fun when you've got half a chest full of seeds and a massive field full of fully grown wheat you don't want to harvest. That's one example. To do progression right in Minecraft you need focus on tools and have those tools not fully automate the process / have recurring costs +/ gameplay attached, make it so the player has to work for it scaled to the level in which the player is supposed to have access to it, and you need it to be worth the player going out of their way to get it. Also, this is more personal opinion, but you should be able to make most of these tools without going to a special biome or structure. I like having structures, but if your game is Minecraft, you should be able to collect, save up, and craft things into the endgame. EDIT: Got to the part where you said minecraft isn't about building. This whole comment is about doing progression centred around building instead of bigger swords or whatever you're talking about. Not mutually exclusive. (not specifically about building stuff, but same difference)

[@CBMX_GAMING]

I totally disagree about Ocean Monuments... they are great for technical players and casual players alike. Technical players have a massive project to tinker with and make a farm out of for some cool building blocks, XP and food. Casual players get to essentially solve a puzzle with a unique mechanic (how do I beat this without being able to mine?) against some unique mobs, and are rewarded with sponges, gold and maybe an armor trim. Plus the materials to make a Conduit. I think this is more than enough for mid-game progression

[@chiragkumar6158]

i agree so much with you! i remember just a few weeks ago i went to a monument looking for sponges and it was more fun than i could expect it to be (despite me being late game). the mobs were actually challenging, there were peaceful corridors and finally digging into a room full of somthing i had been dying to get my hands on felt fullfilling. what better emotion would i want to feel from a game.

[@Dojafish]

Finally someone who understands! Not everything can useful to everyone and it's up to the player if they want.

[@Loy_Otterton]

I agree, I don't understand how you can view Minecraft from a non building perspective, even all the way back in beta that was really all there was! Being able to build an underwater base with access to sponge and sea lanterns.

[@Whydidimakethisa]

I’d just like ocean monuments to have tridents as an end reward, they’re a pain to get and would make the monuments actually rewarding

[@Whydidimakethisa]

@@Loy_Otterton i see minecraft that way, it’s likely because players like me started in a time where the combat and progression was starting to have a few updates and building was just some sort of mundane task that you can choose not to do its pretty disappointing once you get all the cool things you wanted and then it’s just “what now?”

[@kreenbopulusmichael7205]

Ive played minecraft for ten+ years. never stopped, I thought it was funny back in 2019 when people were falling back into it because i had never left once. that being said, Ive never legitimately gotten a full set of diamond armour or anything close to a mending enchant on anything. but Ive built castles and towns and countries that span thousands of blocks. progression is only something you care about if youre an extrinsically motivated player. I think the very concpet of "intrinsically motivated" progression is nonsensical

[@justjordosprout]

I really do love hearing your takes. We all love Minecraft and want the best for it. Including better progression- it's sad seeing servers end so fast with everyone getting bored

[@nikidrawsstuffs]

giggled a little at 12:01 edit: forgot i already commented lol. Your videos are just really nice to have on in the background while (in my case) spending hours modding minecraft.

[@Riklli000]

This video made me realise that i never liked survival mode in Minecraft. For some reason media made me think that survival is better and creative is just for mega builds.

[@mozzarella35]

So I’m game developer currently working on my own game. It’s very different from Minecraft but iv come to the conclusion that Minecraft is a Jack of all trades but master of none. Which explains why I think the game is so popular. However that is only because of how flexible and configurable the game is. Almost every sub system in Minecraft can be added on and enlarged. Either by plug-ins, mods, datapacks and more. To bring up progression, if someone wants a more complex or enjoyable weapon/armor progression a player can download or mod or expand it with data packs. Want more building blocks + no hight limit + 500+ chunk render distance? No problem. I would also say that I think the majority of people are not too concerned with the base game progression. As someone who has played calamity terraria for the reason that the base terraria progression wasn’t deep enough. I only recently started seeing and thinking how basic Minecrafts progression is.

[@GikamesShadow]

Yup Its what lead to a trend in gaming I like to call "Our games are extremely moddable" as if devs (not you) use it as a selling point. The only thing that tells me is that the game isnt fleshed out whatsoever. Rimworld started as a regular Colony Sim. People made mods for it to expand on it. Minecraft same thing. Terraria same thing. There are a lot of good games which started as mods even and they are for the most part still known and loved. But then you also started to see a ton of games who tried to use mods as a selling point, not getting that mods wont fix your game. DayZ Standalone comes to mind. Arma 2 had DayZ as a mod and it was very well loved. So much so that the devs were hired to create a standalone game that was more than subpar. But the reason why it took this long to even get proper updates was because the company tried to release in hope modders would perform their magic trick again. Think devs tend to forget that just cause your game can be modded that it doesnt mean you can just skip out on the development.

[@armoredanteater609]

​@GikamesShadow terraria is definitely not the same thing. Its an actual game you can play and feel satisfied completing in vanilla. Mods are fun add ons. For MC, theyre literal game changers

[@nikidrawsstuffs]

dude you're super underrated. I found your channel from your last vid and ive been binging all your other videos since then. Love the content keep it up ❤

[@TheGeekFactor_]

I appreciate that!

[@agsilverradio2225]

I think a simple way to start to fix the challange/reward ratio, is to rework the loot tables for different types of structure chests, so that the more challenging structures give better loot, and the easyer structures give worse loot.

[@sladevalen2120]

If they dont want to mess with the current progression of minecraft i feel a fun way to still make the game replayable would be to add multiple means of said progression. Basically all progression comes from mining but what if other activities, such as fishing, archeology, farming, etc., could also have equivalent progression. I am a big fan of fishing mini games so one of my friends added the mod Aquaculture 2 to a world we were playing. I loved being rewarded for fishing by getting a unique armor set because the armor had a niche while not just being the best thing in the game (the armor makes exploring the ocean way better). If that came to the base game and we could get things similar for the other major activities i think it would be worth coming back to.

[@crippledworm6047]

Please keep making this passionate content. I stumbled onto your vids while looking for essays about mc while I play mc. While I was half listening to vids some in particular grabbed my attention with their genuine passion, constructive criticism, and love for this game. You make good stuff, please keep it up.

[@gabecastronova4376]

I think there are two primary problems with Minecraft 1. Enchanting 2. Lack of end game challenge I love the concept of enchanting but the actual action of enchanting using the enchanting table is largely obsolete, because villagers will, and in the foreseeable future, will remain a far superior option. And lastly, once you have all the great gear and totems, you can’t die. Even the bosses become a joke, many players beat multiple withers a day, the warden has helped this and I would love to see an expansion. That’s just my opinion, and I still love the game, but the end game is far too easy.

[@jazzyjswift]

The problem is that Minecraft is a sandbox. It's a world meant for creative expression. By giving Minecraft objectives and a very obvious line of progression, it performs this psychological trick on player's minds into thinking that that is point of the game. By giving us an objective, they cripple our ability to give ourselves one. This is actually a phenomenon that has been observed in real life situations as well. I've worked in management in various companies over the years, and I've personally had to go through the learning curve of leadership as well. I've seen what happens to employees who are not given enough freedom to approach a task in their own way - they stop thinking for themselves and begin to lean on leadership for what to do in situations they very easily could handle themselves with a little bit of creativity. By handholding someone, even grown adults who are competent and capable, there's a psychological effect that makes them more prone to depend on further instruction later down the line. I think that public schooling has a similar effect, and thus we see many people fresh out of high school who can't seem to think for themselves. I'm pretty sure I've never met an 18 year old high school graduate with critical thinking skills that allow them to think for themselves effectively. That is something that develops after you've been forced to build it out in the real world where people don't hold your hand and tell you what to do, and you have to figure stuff out on your own. In Minecraft, the effect is far less minimal, but still exists: the hand holding nature of advancements and the very obvious "objectives" of 1. getting diamond. 2. Going to the nether. 3. Going to the End. 4. Defeating the Ender Dragon tricks players into thinking there is a specific line of progression that this game expects you to follow. The credits rolling after you beat the dragon feels like a conclusion, and even though there's countless more things to do, even within the in-game progression system (elytra / deep dark / ocean monuments / etc) the damage has been done. It no longer feels like there's a driving purpose to keep playing. So I propose that we normalize the idea of ignoring the progression of the game.

[@galiantus1354]

So here's my take... A player who is wholly intrinsically motivated will continue playing Minecraft and have a lot of fun fulfilling their own goals. This is the core idea of the game. Notch implemented it well. No need to change anything about it. That said, the problem you've identified is 100% correct: the extrinsic side falls flat. What used to be a compelling survival game has shifted to a (metaphorically) one-dimensional RPG lacking any structure. One of the things I like most about your first video - which may not be obvious to most people - is your comparison of how the player starts in both Minecraft and Terraria. You make a great point about the relative time and effort they have to put into progression to reach the "end" of the game. Let's assume we're talking about a new player who just picked up the game, who needs extrinsic motivation to continue playing. For such a player, Minecraft works for the first couple days - then it stagnates. On the other hand, Terraria foists story progression on the player whether they're ready or not; the simple passage of time is bound to promote forward momentum along the intended path of progression. Another way to put it: Minecraft strings out its limited progression by HIDING it from the player. Terraria has (in my opinion) an overwhelming amount of progression it BLASTS in the player's face with a fire hose. And I'm not saying either having simple or long progression is a bad thing. Both are valid design philosophies. The issue for Minecraft is extrinsically motivated players, who need the survival/RPG element, have very little to latch onto. They're not rewarded for exploring, because the mechanics and structure of the game don't even vaguely point the player along a path that ends with beating the Ender dragon. Instead they are rewarded by going on the wiki and essentially following the same process modern speed runners are now completing in under 10 minutes. If I were to change anything about Minecraft's progression, it would be to link in most of the structures in Minecraft to the path to the End. More controversially, I'd possibly even complicate the path to the Nether. The thing is, the quest a player goes on to "beat" survival Minecraft (i.e. kill the Ender dragon) should demand they engage with many mechanics of the game. And let's not forget - a single Minecraft world is HUGE. How is exploration and travel not a bigger part of the quest to kill the Ender dragon? And they ALREADY have awesome mechanics to help with this, by the way: cartographer maps and treasure maps. Players who want to "beat" the game should have to repel a pillager raid, conquer an ocean monument, raid a woodland mansion, and kill the Wither - among other things. And information gained simply by exploring should suggest doing these things is the way to progress. Perhaps smaller structures like desert and jungle temples, monster dungeons, underwater ruins, and treasure chests could hint at the first steps to take along this path. These aren't exact suggestions. This is simply to show that "beating" survival/story Minecraft could involve much, much more than it does now, and in a way that gives players an introduction to the more intrinsic parts of the game. And it could all be done without placing serious demands on the players who don't need the carrot and stick of progression to motivate their own personal projects. Progressing the story can simply be something that's there for the player to pursue when they've run out of their own ideas for the moment. Of course, I realize this would massively change things for speedrunning. But I don't actually see that as a problem - it should actually inject new life-blood into the speed running community, with separate "pre-progression update" and "post-progression update" categories. The first implying the sub 10-minute runs we've gotten used to; the second implying a more intense hour-or-more process that is less dependent on the seed, and more dependent on speedrunner skill. But I've gotten into the weeds at this point. Minecraft progression could be better; I have my own ideas how to address it. Great video.

[@witherschat]

A big issue with this argument is that a longer extrinsic progression in Minecraft is often a bigger roadblock to the intrinsic player.

[@galiantus1354]

@@witherschat That's a really good argument for keeping access to the End and Nether relatively straightforward. The world should remain fairly open. However, I stand by my view of progression as it relates to bosses and events. Killing the ender dragon should be more of a quest than it is. Actually, I find it really odd that the dragon fight marks the beginning of the player's End progression. Like, you have to "beat" the game to start exploring end cities and get high level loot... but for what? It would be more natural if the dragon fight only came after spending some time in the End. Plus the End could do with an update anyway. It is just so bland compared with the Overworld and Nether.

[@kei_r12]

I think progression is down to the individual and that person’s interests such as full automation or amazing armour or building an entire world

[@The_Yeet]

Something Minecraft could also use is another boss or two, that spawn more on their own. There would be a trigger, but it would be less on your terms. Kinda like raids. Perhaps if you beat an elder guardian there is a random chance you get a debuff that summons a drowned captain when you get to a shipwreck. It would function similarly to a trident drown, but would have 3x the health, and would summon non trident drowns every so often too defend itself. Its nothing crazy, but adds a little something to the world. Defeating this boss could get you a special treasure map that contains tons of gold, a heart of the sea, and maybe a special armor upgrade that makes water traversal more interesting. This would be an upgrade instead of netherite. Perhaps this could go on gold armor, making it somewhat fragile, but super useful for any kind of water traversing.

[@SaskiaSketches]

The idea that you should never look critically at something you love has always been so strange to me. I love Pokémon, but my opinions on the latest games are very negative. That doesn't mean I don't love Pokémon, or that there is absolutely NOTHING I enjoy about Scarlet and Violet. The reason I'm so mad/disappointed isn't because I hate Pokémon, it's because I LOVE Pokémon and I want it to be the very best version of itself. It doesn't have to be so black and white. Even my favourite books and films have things "wrong" with them, or choices I disagree with, even if it's very minimal. And that's okay. Pondering those things only helps me learn how to become a better writer, artist, etc. Idk if that's relatable at all, but that's how I feel personally!

[@blahthebiste7924]

Ok but Area Zero is kinda awesome and has a great theme

[@SaskiaSketches]

@@blahthebiste7924 like I said, there are some things I do like about ScarVi, like the music for example, but that doesn't mean the game has no flaws. It's that kind of all or nothing thinking that I can't wrap my head around😅

[@blahthebiste7924]

Oh I misunderstood, I thought you said that there WAS nothing you liked about scarlet etc. lol my b@@SaskiaSketches

[@DaenGaming]

I feel like a large part of this issue is that Mojang seems to handle the development of this game as if it's already a legacy product, i.e. maintaining what they consider to be "classic" features rather than attempting to modernize them. It's a problem Old School RuneScape had for years, the developers were scared to make changes that could spook the nostalgia seekers. They eventually found their way, but it required essentially breaking the stranghold nostalgia had over the development process and creating a new internal model of what the game should actually be. It feels like Mojang needs this as well, a new internal model of what Minecraft should be that's freed of its nostalgic chains but still true to its roots.

[@Wyrvenfire]

I tried the game several times as vanilla and even modded and just couldn't get into it. For me as a new player it was the lack of in game clues as to what the game can provide and lead me to that made it feel boring. There is nothing in the game that tells you , hey there is this dragon you may want to kill it, or these ruined portals can be converted to active ones but you have to get rid of the glowing obsidian first not just fill in the holes. If you don't look at the wiki or watch videos I imagine most new players wouldn't even have a clue on what to do beyond digging a hole and seeing what you can find. Even something like a village destroyed by dragons breath or survivor notes in your starter inventory giving you a clue of a greater story would be quite useful and may be able to push people beyond digging a hole and seeing what they can find.

[@conahanbarbarian9719]

your progression video was excellent, and people are hating on it because you were willing to say something serious that actually criticized problems with the game. Everyone wants Minecraft to change for the better(think of how happy we were to get the crafting book), but not everyone is willing to suggest that it might have real issues. Excellent videos, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. :) As for changes I'd like to see, I wish we had a sort of standard-of-living update for villagers and neutral mobs that would disincentivize people engaging in slavery or industrial animal ag. The way to fix the villager slave camps, cough-cough, "trading halls," is to make villagers not trade unless they are able to move around and socialize. If you always capture the villagers in little boxes then you'd never learn that they don't spend their whole day at their workbenches, but actually move around and socialize in the morning before going to work and repeating that cycle before nighttime. Animals could be given that kind of AI too, and if we make it a requirement that villagers and other mobs won't reproduce without that kind of activity then we no longer have industrial breeders and "trading halls"(edit: at least, until people find a way to exploit these rules too). Maybe adding a basic trading hall in the villages that provides the player with a reason to contribute to the infrastructure of a village rather than tearing it down for scrap and kidnapping its population. This could open up a reputation feature based on how well you treat villagers rather than just being based on fighting Illagers, and would give us a better incentive to protect the creatures living in our worlds.

[@Dojafish]

By problems of the game ,you mean that some players are disappointed that the game is a intrinsic game with focus on internal motivation? Honestly his critism feel half-assed because he doesn't even bother to look what's the point of the game and it's goal . He even acknowledged it at times ,but he still complained about why the ocean monument doesn't give more "unique loot" or whatever shifty argument people think .

[@ambientNexus]

@@Dojafish If that's the point of the game, then why does survival mode even exist?

[@Dojafish]

@@ambientNexus To act as the base mode of the game💀

[@conahanbarbarian9719]

@@Dojafish Minecraft has a progression system, and it is bad at motivating progression in the game. If the purely self motivated and creative system of Minecraft is all you want then enjoy yourself and stop heckling people who want something changed which fundamentally does not affect your play style. Improving on the manner of progression and expanding the base game outside of just adding more blocks is something lots of people want, and the argument given in this video is quite detailed. To say this is half assed only demonstrates your own immaturity and apparent inability to pay attention to arguments presented to you. And as for your pitiful ocean monuments comment, sponges are a shit reward for traversing a rather dangerous part of a survival world, and if you can't see why that is then I suggest you watch the video again and meditate a few moments on how best to reply before spitting all over your screen.

[@fluffiddy6515]

This video was a lot better than the last one. I know terraria comparisons are important in making your points but you overused them which just sounded like u whining that Minecraft isn’t a 3D “reskin” of terraria

[@plumfadoodle4908]

While I certainly disagree with aspects of this video, it's nice to see a more nuanced video that acknowledges the amount of communities this game has and isn't just mindlessly bashing the devs based on lies. I enjoy hearing actual discussion about the game, that isn't the sort of common thing you see on Twitter these days.

[@G.P.M_7]

You summed it up perfectly why i have never went to an ocean monument besides one single time: it offers nothing of value to me. The sponges and prismarine are not enough reward for what is one of the hardest dungeons in the game, since it takes place BELOW water, even a nether fortress is easier. On my most recent world which is one ive been playing for like 4 years, completing an ocean monument is still on my bucket list solely because doing so would just be for the sake of it. They absolutely need to add more than sponges and some gold blocks if they want players to venture there

[@Gambet81]

Thx for getting me back into terraria, I tried it on switch awhile ago and couldn't get into it. But when i saw your last video and seen the game was on sale on pc I decided to give it a shot, i just beat the queen bee 3 times and now I'm trying to find the cursed dungeon

[@sebastianturner2458]

Should be a ways past the snow biome - jungle and main desert (with the underground section) always generate on one side, snow and dungeon on the other.

[@Gambet81]

@@sebastianturner2458 iv managed to kill skelitron today, the first time i went in was... not fun to say the least. i still don't know where to get all the keys for the chests tho

[@StarshadowMelody]

My issue with Netherite has always been "Too Damn Rare", to the point that it's barely worth chasing if you don't have to for some of the stuff mods add. As for the the _actual_ video, this is a lot less easily mockable than the last one. on a less honest note, "haha minecraft isn't for you lmao". also there's this video in the recommendeds from this one with a block of diorite and "THERE ARE NO BAD BLOCKS" for the thumnail titled "Why you are wrong about diorite!" and I'm just like "yeah, mhm, that's a valid building block there. Run it through a stonecutter, decent white color, mhm that'll do." I think I prefer Calcite though.

[@NoahYoudontneedtoknowmyl-kt3vc]

Someone got mad at me when i said that in terms of content terraria is way better than minecraft and they said terraria cant be compared to Minecraft cause its a rpg and Minecraft is a sandbox. Man, they are both rpgs AND sandboxes!

[@roughrogue1426]

Terraria a 2d piece of shit

[@NoahYoudontneedtoknowmyl-kt3vc]

It’s actually pretty good when you actually try it@@roughrogue1426

[@PyroMancer2k]

It depends on what you define as "Progression". There is a difference in progressing to better gear with items. While one can progress by improving their skills and knowledge. Most of the people I played Minecraft with were concerned about progression in knowledge of the game and it's execution. Like I played mostly on modded servers and in some that focused on TechCraft and GregTech had a portion of players who upon server restart would see who could get fusion reactor online the fastest. Others would try to build new and interesting projects of buildings, art, redstone exhibits, and etc. The only combat oriented mod I remember highly was Twilight forest and it was because it had those resource rich mounts full of enemies. And most of the industry oriented mods have a lot of material requirements to build all the machines, pipes, circuits, and etc. So it was big risk for big reward rather than just randomly digging up the ground as the later added temples and such in vanilla were very underwhelming in rewards and threat. I also wanna clarify the machines I used are the ones in the mods. Not those automated redstone farms that grind up mobs and such. They were the insert ore, maciate, smelt, mix for alloys, and etc type. Even had fun with Bee Crafting and setup auto breeding for those.

[@omitorrent7492]

The problem with minecraft is that it became a game for everyone, and everyone has to have full atention. Creative worlds tools, survival words gamplay, easy to understand and not frustaring features. Everything family friendly and clear enough. Its also a game clearly for children, but still for adults. A game for everyone end to be a game for no one. A shame, i cant even play it anymore, it just dont work for me

[@S1AR_DUS1]

Personally I think Minecraft starts after the Enderdragon fight

[@TheGeekFactor_]

I really think this is a bad sentiment to throw around. But I see it a lot. This kinda just… ignores or severely downplays all of the cool progression mojang put in place prior to the end. This just sounds like an excuse to rush past everything to beat the dragon.

[@freezymays]

I feel like mainly the 20yrs old and above demographic is the one who are mostly unsutisfied with the game, its progression and etc. Because after playing for so many years we realised what the flaws of the game are and became having higher standards. Meanwhile, kids dont rly have this level of expectations, they dont rly think too deeply about whats wrong and what could be improved. As a kid, I basically never had problem with the game compared to now, I mean theres a reason why minecraft is the most sold game of all time by a mile compared to other games.

[@GlacierMoonDragon]

Later updates to come, Minecraft should revisit and update some of their past versions. For example, taking the Village and Pillage update, and making a sequel or part 2 of it.

[@miimiiandco.8721]

I started a new survival world with friends, and was hit with how much I hate the enchantment progression (Although I went through it via Villagers.) I really feel like it just grinds the pace to a halt, as you're encourage to go on this huge, boring sidequest that just involves starting at a GUI for hours, or breaking and replacing the same block over and over for hours.

[@itzangel0735]

If there is something I really hope in an End Update is a new Stronghold, I really want to be hyped by exploring the Stronghold, it really needs an upgrade.

[@RDG-01]

You know what, I did enjoy this video. And I wanna see what games you explore. Have my sub. Who knows, maybe I'll find a new game or two to enjoy through this.

[@lily_littleangel]

These videos made me think about the progression in Starbound. I think its better than Minecraft but worse than Terraria. The biggest problem is that there are 2 tracks; missions and planets. They're meant to work together but can conflict highly. For example, I've been able yo reach the highest tier of planets without ever encountering the required story stuff...

[@marek1shtar538]

I think that's what makes the game really good though. Certain things are restricted until you complete story stuff like easy access to ore and ingot buying while other stuff such as loot from chests has this different feeling of finding it than crafting. Some of the beta systems of that game where better than the final but theres still enough to keep it fresh. Questing Looting and exploring are fun to do in Starbound because it all leads to a worthy reward which is enhanced by modding in that game, while modding minecraft only feels like a bandaid on the issues

[@lily_littleangel]

@@marek1shtar538 that's a fair point, I never realized that. I guess terraria also has this issue I have, where you can outscale some bosses, especially pre-hardmode if you know what you're doing.

[@marek1shtar538]

@@lily_littleangel Terraria is an interesting example because I personally don't enjoy as much as Starbound. I think the journey to the next boss in that game is the issue because combat is kinda like one and done and there's less of a survival aspect to things. I have the same issue with post skyrim bethesda games because the second playthroughs are never as good as the first. It's odd

[@provaricus627]

You have to set your own goals and make your own things. That’s the point of Minecraft.

[@remixtheidiot5771]

i took your previous video as simply being about the vanilla minecraft survival experience, this video is all about minecraft as a whole, asking this question: is minecraft a satisfactory game? does it accomplish what a video game should have? i have been playing minecraft again recently, as a veteran looking to be more analytical about the game and taking off nostalgia lenses and i can say with certainty that the answer to these questions is and always has been; from beta all the way to present day: no. the vanilla experience of the game, be it survival, hardcore, or creative is not very fun. as you said, compared to a game like terraria, heck, compare it to any game and it lacks many things about its gameplay that you'll find in other games that you find fun. as you said it lacks progression. it also lacks visual aesthetics. it lacks in difficulty (this isn't about whether minecraft is too easy, or hard, rather it lacks things expected from both a hard game like dark souls or a casual game like animal crossing)... it lacks a lot of things. survival is boring and tedious, creative is just virtual legos (not saying legos are boring, but not everyone enjoys legos), and hardcore is just... survival again. but then i decided to download an adventure map... then i modded the game and played maps designed with them... then i played in servers... then finally i played with friends and did a whole smp thing and that's when i realized what minecraft's strongest point is... it's a framework. it's an ide. it's a daw. its a canvas. it's a creative outlet. vanilla minecraft is designed to intentionally be unsatiafying, but satisfying enough that someone will want to stay there and build upon the few things they find interesting, eventually inserting the things they like into minecraft. minecraft is indeed what you make of it. yeah, it's cliche and cringe, but it's true! i personally disagreed with you in the previous video. mostly because i dislike terraria, it simply doesn't have things i like with a video game. it has too much extrinsic progression, so i eventually quit the game. but that's fine! your ideal minecraft, and indeed the minecraft you play and like has "terraria-like" gameplay or at the very least progression. my ideal minecraft just happens to be different. it's a social outlet for me. a creative one too. minecraft for me is strongest when i am making funny builds and talking with friends. i imagine everyone elses is too and that's a good thing! that's indeed... the best thing about minecraft. some play for the core game, some create theory videos because they enjoy intricate stories and worlds, others mod the heck out of the game because programming is their passion. mine out that which you don't like, and upon that, craft what you will like.

[@Dojafish]

Got the first few paragraphs gave me an sezuire. God this are insanely bad takes. Minecraft lacks visual aesthetic? Like what is this opinion💀. If Minecraft lacked so many things ,then why it's so popular? Yeah some people can like lots of bad things but usually they don't last long ,but Minecraft is still being played for over a decade. You probably just don't like the game and that's fine ,but that doesn't mean it's constructive critism .

[@devalyn3025]

Geuss what minecraft isnt perfect.

[@jahmi4334]

I think the progression is about how close you are to Creative mode in your Survival world.

[@generalseal6948]

there are already vids about people making their own minecraft updates in the form of mods

[@vonbon212]

For me at least, the early versions of Minecraft where you could punch sheep for wool and your endgame was essentially a diamond pickaxe and a cobblestone castle, was the best template to add mods that to this day feel like that has better progression than nowadays.

[@Erynash]

I Strongly support this video. Minecraft needs more progression, more unique loot, more unique experiences that are more worthwhile than farming villagers. Terraria does do it well, you can''t help but bring it up. So much unique loot, variety, ways to play. If Minecraft were to get ONE more unique weapon or tool such as the trident t would be a huge deal. I like to look at Dungeons for inspiration in terms of what they could add, be it mobs, weapons, enchatments or a magic system.

[@lachy4899]

I think if minecraft is any one thing, it is a blank (albeit textured) canvas for a players to express themselves, whatever that might look like for them. The topic of progression though is interesting, Minecraft definately has progression in it but it is demonstrated in several ways and absent in one way in particular: 1) Player progression, this is simply player skill and mastery, as a person spends more time with the game they will improve in the way they play, you mentioned several examples but there are two main pain points in this. For experienced players, they know how to quickly progress through the game systems, they can have full diamond in one day resulting in the system feeling too short. The second issue is for new players, while it is hard to imagine a new player coming to the game with no knowledge if there was such a player, the game does a horrible job of teaching them what can be done. Cobat and Redstone are two game mechanics that are heavily influenced by player knowledge. 2) System progression, which covers the various systems of the game, the tech tree of item progression is one of the true problem areas, tools and equipment have 5 or 6 tiers (some only have one level) which sounds interesting until you realize that leather, gold, and wooden items are best avoided or progressed past as soon as possible meaning that there are fewer options than at first glance, the only other aspect to consider here being enchantments (a system I believe needs an overhaul). The limited number of tiers is made painfully clear to experienced players who can progress to the highest quality of tools very quickly, with the grind and introduction of new mechanics feeling awkward and serving only to artificially delay progression. Other system progression machanics are things like breeding horses, etc... 3) World progression, Minecraft effectively does not have this, not really, I can only think of a couple of ways this is present, the first being the end portals that generate after killing the end dragon and the way that some zombie piglins will sometimes spawn near lit nether portals. Overall, Minecraft world is static, the only changes come from the player(s). 4) One thing the game does not do, currently, is have any form of character progression with two minor caveats, being the experience/level of the character and the unlocking of recipes (a gamerule). A character 300 hours in who has just died (or even just removed all their equipment) is no different to an entirely fresh character. I think this point is why player progression is such a big discussion, if Mojang add character progression it will be a major shift in the design philosophy of the game. Ultimately, I feel the start to a progression solution for minecraft should look at a few key ways: 1) Unify the mechanics and the systems in the game, for example, why two scutes in game gained in different ways, why is netherite so different from every other upgrade, etc. 2) Drastically improve world progression, going to the nether and the end should have a meaningful change in the overworld, new mobs spawn or otherwise visual differences. World progression should also mean that the further from spawn there will be more fantastical biomes that generat (floating islands, etc). Villages should also improve and grow in response to player interactions. To continue to borrow from Terraria but the generation of new ores would also be great. Another consideration that would add to this is dyanamic seasons. 3) Expand the tech tree, right now it is possible to get diamond gear almost immediately and fully enchanted netherite is not a hard challenge just tedious, the bigger issues though are that with maxed tools you are still fighting mobs that you are fighting with stone tools, it is easier but the only major advantage is that your tools require less maintenance. If world progression saw a major expansion then further tiers of tools could also make sense. Having said that, there is still a need to validate existing tiers of tools ,the hoe, the shovel and the axe - for choppoing wood, have very limited benfits to making an upgrade, never mind the general problems with leather, wood and gold quality tools. In the end, Minecraft may not be about the progression but it is a game of progression, and it is possible to both love the game and to critique it. As for Intrinsic vs Extrinsic the game does this best when it sets a goal for the player and allows them to do it in whatever way they want, it just doesn't do a great job of acknowledging the players work. Thanks for the two videos on this topic, some great questions to consider and sorry for the essay.

[@pokefreakplays]

All structures should give you a reason to seek out more of them and make you want the things they give, and the large more unique structures should give you items that make it easier the next time you find it.

[@Scorchlette]

Minecraft isn't a game about building, or trading, or anything. Minecraft just... is. Even with it's entirely avoidable progression, it's still there. Existing.

[@corbinallen4562]

I dont feel like minecrafts progression should be tied to heavily to exploration. Each time they add something like the elytra or netherite templates. It makes me feel like im just crossing off a checklist of stuff i have to do. Rather than things id rather do. Also as a side note the coordinate system is so outdated and annoying i dont understand why they haven't just added a minmap at this point. It would save me so much headache i cant tell you how many times ive lost the paper with my coordinates written down.

[@TheGeekFactor_]

I mean… you can hold a map in your off hand and you can craft a recovery compass for your stuff.

[@corbinallen4562]

@@TheGeekFactor_ Yea but that's still an imperfect solution. The coordinate thing isn't unbearable I just find it annoying.

[@okina4539]

Now I’m starting to want to play Minecraft again after years of not playing Minecraft

[@box_of_roc1038]

Wynncraft is a server that I have been playing on for years. It has a lot going on and an amazing setting. I found a modpack for the server recently, and it is incredible. New UIs, animations, and voice acting for a majority of the quests. The server/project is very addicting and well crafted. I give it a huge recommendation. Also, I think one of the issues I have with the progression in the game is that you learn the mechanics very quickly, and losing that ability to learn things kind of kills it for me. In many games, you learn the mechanics, but then there are advanced masteries that are not always easy to achieve. That pushes the player to keep trying and perfect their craft. Another thing I have an issue with is that, despite this world being your oyster, many of the mechanics are one-noted. Fighting? Sword, bow, or axe. Armor? Just get rare ores. For a world with magic properties, the main ways of doing things are pretty boring. Outside of building, there are not many alternative ways to complete the game. I love this game, and it has been a big part of my life since my childhood. I always find a reason to come back to it at some point. Its very relaxing to me. However, I think that because I have played so long, the main game of survival has lost its charm, and I require unique servers to reawaken that wonder. It is a bad thing? I don't think it has to be. It is just something I have noticed. Anyhow, nice video!

[@loafofbread3009]

Monumenta!

[@MarianzYT]

I'm trying to enhance Ocean Monuments on my mod just because of this video, so thank you for inspiring this 🗿🚬

[@luis-sophus-8227]

Ever since 1.13 and the latter released, Minecraft has fell in progression. It's easy to find diamonds now (in any shipwreck), all structures are way too common now, multiplying that. Before then, you actually had to search diamonds in the mines. This issue could easily be solved by just reducing the structure spawnrate to how it was before and, making diamonds actually valuable again, it's not that hard. And of course, improving the ai, imagine if zombies were capable of jumping lava pools, that would already make it much better.

[@DawnofHope]

Alright, now make a broader video about capitalism and its effect on art. (No, like seriously please do, I love video essays about the dichotomy of the gaming industry as a whole and how capitalism has affected the growth of modern society, good and bad.)

[@watema3381]

I really agree with you. My issue with modern Minecraft is that every new update, they add a bunch of random stuff that isn't even (most of the time at least) properly fleshed out (i.e. Bundles, the random animals , Combat Update anyone??, Archeology, The Deep Dark and Warden lore, The End, etc.). Minecraft has a serious identity crisis. It's a game that has forgotten what it wants to be. 😢

[@lunashenck]

I think another issue is that we've all been playing the game for over a decade now. Of course it's going to feel like there's nothing to do, because we've done it 100 times by now. Obviously keeping experienced players engaged is still important, but it's important to remember that the average player hasn't even gone to the nether

[@randomphantom3976]

If I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that Minecraft's progression is a grind, but that's all it is. There's nothing exciting about it. You benefit nothing from advancing your base, and gain so much from a guardian farm, but which is more fun? They need to change it so that progression is both challenging and fun, enough that you don't realize how much of a grind it is. I've become a very progression centered player in Minecraft over the past few years, and rapidly it made Minecraft lose its shine. I get bored very easily. I no longer see a reason to make a massive, stylized build, because it doesn't keep me alive any better than a hole in a hill. And I hate it, SO much. But my brain just doesn't respond to it anymore. I gotta do some creative mode, get myself back into building and creative redstoning (ps4 got converted to Bedrock a while back and that killed my interest in redstone) and other stuff like that. Then I can go back into survival to add the challenge of limited resources. I need to not be so concerned about dying and focus less on progression and more on creativity. Maybe one day they're get so many features that new stuff will no longer be exciting, since the game has so much that even old stuff feels somewhat new, since the variety will make the feeling constant. We're already seeing signs of that, with the armor trims and sniffers being so exciting because they're rare and unique, and not actually useful. It's slowly becoming about variety, not advancement. Then they'll start to look at things like the fundamentals, like progression, like those combat snapshots that were going so well but have been forgotten, they way ores are found, the anvil cost system (which should be based off the output, not the inputs), the excessive exp cost of enchanting tables when on their own they do little, all those little problems that keep the progression boring. I really appreciate your video. I think you're like me, honest about your opinions and seeking improvement. You could use more caution with your words, but I'm much worse about that. I've learned to be careful with how I speak but often forget to use it. You're smart too, you see a problem and want it fixed. And like me, you get angry over entirely valid things, but people think your anger is directed at them when really you're angry at the situation (hence the "make extreme automation and then call the game boring thing" sounding like it was directed at the players, when really you believe the problem lays with the game itself, and it does). I get really angry at those automatic sliding doors at big stores that only open once you've nearly slammed your face into it, not because I blame the door, but because someone had to screw up to cause that. Overall, this video was awesome and has revealed to me why my interest in my longtime favorite game of 10 years was weakening. Thank you, good vid, well wishes friend!

[@samuelr007ruiz9]

In the moment I have finished my house I just freeze, my mind becomes unable to think about what to do next and fun just dies. I love exploration games but when they are this "pure" without a journey or something I can't find it fun for long and I really want to because I see the beuty of it.

[@cooptionalxb1]

I've played Minecraft for a long time (Since Xbox 360 Edition), yet my eyes still widen with enjoyment with every diamond I find, I smile whenever I earn a new achievement, and laugh whenever something stupid (usually involving a Villager or Wandering Trader) happens. I recently got a friend to join me in my world, and together, it's been more fun than it has been in a long time. So, to add on to what he's saying in the video, if you find playing solo or with strangers boring, try getting a friend to play with you (especially if they've never played before for added entertainment.) You can show them the ropes and live vicariously through your friend as they experience this game for the first time.

[@user-dr8mp2fl3q]

what about making guardian farms, if you kill the elder guardians you can build farms which produce tons of XP

[@user-ik9fu5rq9v]

Minecraft has morphed into a game designed to maximize the amount of time you are in the game, while actively working against the player, and preventing them from accomplishing their goals without wasting countless hours. This expansion of the world is the real reason points of interest, and resources, are so spread out. It’s all about the time spent in game for analytics and metrics, and not about the players enjoyment and engagement. Most people are bored because the progression is backwards. The most useful items for gathering resources and exploring (elytra and shulker boxes) are rewarded after beating the dragon and going to the end fortress. At this point, people subconsciously lose interest in the world because the question then becomes, “what am I building toward”? For many, the answer is building the perfect adventuring base to aid them in the adventure to put an end to the ender dragon. Well, that’s done, because you rushed to get the quality of life items you needed to prevent your playthrough from seeming like a never ending homework assignment. This is what ended my Minecraft adventuring, and the forced grind by the developers is only getting worse.

[@TheGeekFactor_]

To your final point, Minecraft has always been grindy, though. You grind iron and ores to get stuff. You mine stuff for hours to build stuff. It’s always been that way since survival mode was introduced

[@KynatNL]

I think you're just very passionate in the way you express yourself, but yeah in your previous video you really did kind of hammer on about Minecraft's progression in a way that made it seem like that's all you cared about

[@nabris9242]

I want to play hytale man, it's gonna be like minecraft the way i want it, adventure and more weapons and armor

[@Asothin]

The points you raise in your original video are accurate (maybe except automation). Anyone that has been playing the game for a very long time will be able to tell you that. It is the nature of criticism that those who have little experience are the quickest to dismiss your points with statements like "this game is not for you". And only after investing dozens of hours more will the flaws become apparent. As someone that has spent thousands of hours on this game I can confidently say that modern Minecraft has major flaws with its progression. I'd like to once again, thank you for this video. And if you haven't already I encourage you to read my comment under your other video where I go into more detail as to why this is.

[@junicure6962]

My favorite minecraft mode is creative. I just love building extensive interoconnected cities with their own lore and history and architeconic style etc... it's like the most fun I've had with the game in years. Is it technically supposed to be a survival game? Yeah, but honestly, what makes me come back to the game is just being able to turn my imagination into this imaginary world. That's why i like minecraft, it just lets you pick and choose what kind of experience to make it

[@swinoob616]

what mod is at 1:04? better than adventure? thanks

[@TheGeekFactor_]

Yep! Good mod!

[@gusalistar2522]

Vintage story mentioned!!!

[@Dabombster342]

a couple years ago, my friend group and I tried out RLcraft. we had such a good time with it at the start with how they shook up the early game by having players gather flint and sticks to make their first tools. It really felt like a struggle as opposed to vanilla, where you punch a tree to make a wooden pick and somehow gather stone straight from the earth within seconds of starting a world. But then, the moment we mined iron all of that progression was thrown out the window as the game went back to how it used to be (minus all the RLcraft shenanigans) and we dropped off of it. which brings me to a game called vintage story. If you're someone who has had a similar experience to me or are just a bit tired of Minecraft (also like me) I would highly recommend giving it a try, basically, it takes the same idea that RLcraft abandoned with true realistic style survival, but improves and expands upon it immensely and doesn't drop it for the entire game, even just getting your first metal tools feels like a real achievement. Not only is there some really in depth progression, but even the world itself is widely fleshed out, with terrain generation similar to real life biomes, seasons that are affected by what side of the equator you're on, and exploration being heavily encouraged to find stuff like materials only found in other areas, ruins of a bygone civilisation, or traders, which are much more fleshed out and feel like actual people. if I had to sum up the game, I would say that on the surface, it looks a lot like Minecraft, but digging deeper will show you that it's a much more serious game for the people that grew out of Minecraft but still want that nostalgic freedom it provided.

[@Dabombster342]

and of course, the moment I send this comment and resume the video, you get into vintage story as well ;-; can't wait for the video on it though, I love your simple yet informative style and would love to hear your opinions on it.

[@georgecochran4091]

Totally understand. Just hoping for ps vr2 support.

[@gragaloth6237]

When you pointed out that older versions of minecraft didnt ask much, i think that spirit has remained. In older versions you use the game to achieve your own goals, you dont use your goals to achieve things for the game. If that makes sense. Like in tararria, you dont see as much creativity or automation n stuff in the game because (its 2d, but also) the game doesnt give you much room to breathe your own breath. Old minecraft sorta stayed outta the way, and that spirit has remained, its gotten more complicated but so has the fanbase. The fanbase grew and the game grew, but the game has always been a tool for players to achieve their own goals. I think many of your points in the first vid were great, like special items and trial chambers n stuff and i think adding stuff like that would absolutely make the game more fun. But i dont think they would necessarily effect the progression. I think thats where a lot of peoples' gripe was, just the verbage of the term progression. I hope mojang sees this stuff tho cuz it has many great points

[@Enderlinkpawnu]

you have to really consider that one of the main reasons Minecraft feels so stagnant with the progression is mainly because the core progression has not really been changed since the Nether update, and before that, was the introduction of the diamond in 2010. Enchantment is an incremental thing that does improve your stuff, but it's not as huge as a new bis armor and tool set like Netherite was. On top of this, you can get the third best set of gear in the game, iron, within the first hour of playtime. Think about it, you are only one hour into a new playthrough, and you have the equivalent equipment of what in Terraria would be Chlorophyte Armor (which in Terraria would take the normal player at least 10 hours to get to). Thats a little absurd imo. I do think the free-formness of Minecraft is cool, but I did mention Terraria before, that game's progression is spot on, perfect blend of "feeling progressively more powerful as time goes on" and "freedom to tackle challenges in a sandbox kind of way"). I think Minecraft could take a page from that... Maybe do a Nether Update for the End and add a new tier of armor better than Netherite (lets be honest, there is no point going to the outer End besides end cities, which are cool tbf). As it is right now Minecraft has a lot of horizontal progression, but it needs more vertical progression. And guess what a lot of the most popular mods Minecraft that "improve the game" adds?

[@Vendetta_killer]

You should really talk about Minecraft Legacy

[@ClexYoshi]

You know what i'd like to see you cover if you have any history with the franchise? Dragon Quest Builders.

[@TheGeekFactor_]

I played a bit of the first game on the switch. Only had the demo, but I really liked it! I briefly had the second game when I had Xbox game pass

[@ClexYoshi]

@@TheGeekFactor_ yeah, I never had the chance to try them and I've bounced off of the traditional Dragon Quest games as being the RPG equivalent of a comunion wafer and church wine, but Dragon QUest BUilders always sounded like something the folks at Square-Enix put a lot of effort into in order to chase a gaming trend and that it came out the other end pretty well executed.

[@MinorLife10]

I am not bothered by Minecraft's progression of all games. There is no Hardmode to begin, and no Moonlord to defeat. You can make whatever you want, and even more can you do if you are a mod developer

[@LiamFlaunch]

Yeah the automation part was def the one I did not agree with at all. I am glad you reconsidered that take a bit Everything else in the video prior? I do agree, but to me I think Minecraft is good at just being a sandbox to ME and I can do WHATEVER I want, which is what you say here in this video too. So opinion I do agree with, but I think that my Minecraft would be different from yours, or other's Minecraft. Everyone wants their own Minecraft, and they can do that easily. That is also why I think progression isn't something to be a focal point of the game also, like you said in your video, I don't think anything should be a focal point in a general sense. The only focal point is what you want to do, how do you want the game to be, what makes the game for you Awesome video, I loved both of them ^^

[@banned2911]

You last video finally convinced me to buy terraria and its the best decision ive ever made its so fun yesterday i finally defeated moonlord but basically thank you for getting me in terraria

[@CDYT]

You beat Terraria in only two weeks? Maybe I just suck at the game but that’s pretty impressive good job

[@jaydenc367]

I got terraria since 2020 and I have not made much progress....geez you already beat moonlord?!?

[@ambientNexus]

@@jaydenc367 Have you been actively playing the game on the same world, or have you just been making new characters and worlds every time you play?

[@jaydenc367]

@@ambientNexusNot too actively but I did have one character on one main world...I will retry it this time on PC though.