Jean-Marc Jancovici: "Our Global Energy Predicament" | The Great Simplification #84

[@abccba1971]

He is the one person who totally shifted my stance on the issue of greenhouse effects upon our climate and our environment. He’s down to earth yet thorough, technical yet broad minded. Absolutely brilliant man.

[@fabricegrimaud7895]

But the greenhouse effect of co2 being the cause of climate change is just an hypothesis absolutely not proven. The climate change may be due to many more complex causes. Therefore the decarbonation as the Jancovici business may be just his business and will not stop the climate change.

[@vikidprinciples]

Anthropogenic Catastrophic Climate Change is a lie.

[@HealingLifeKwikly]

@@fabricegrimaud7895 "But the greenhouse effect of co2 being the cause of climate change is just an hypothesis absolutely not proven." No, it's a proven fact--mountains of research prove it to be true.

[@optimisticfuture6808]

I’m on the fence but completely agree with resource allocation and minimalist lifestyle and conservation

[@LIMITMEDIA]

We are very happy to discover Jean-Marc Jancovici on an English-speaking channel, his work is extremely renowned in France and Belgium and he is one of the people on whom we must absolutely rely to broaden scientific popularization around the climate and energies. Well done Nate Hagens! If people want to discover Jancovici, we have some interesting interviews to offer you but you will have to activate the English subtitles because it is a France (for the moment).

[@CarlosOddone-z6k]

To what effect/consequence since the 1997 Kyoto Protocol ?

[@Nini-pw4uf]

Hey ! Have you been listening ? It’s been clearly debated in the show ! Focus on the debate more than the comments young soul.

[@CarlosOddone-z6k]

@@Nini-pw4uf is carbondioxide listening ...

[@dickschwanzstein1789]

Just in Wallonia maybe. The majority of Belgians in the Dutch speaking part have never heard of this man.

[@veroniquebazille9268]

Hello Nate, Thanks for having Janco on your show. I wanted to point out that he achieved his demi-god status in France, because apart from being amazingly charismatic and clear, he is not your usual gas-financed anti-nuclear green, and is vocally non-partisan. France reveres its elites selected via the Grandes Ecoles curriculum, and as a graduate of the most prestigious engineering school, Ecole Polytechnique, he has a huge credibility. Also, as the founder of a very successful consulting firm where he promotes the carbon footprint evaluation method he invented he can talk to top managers as equals. Those 2 elements make people stand and listen when he advocates sobriety. As for his public appearances, the stroke of genius came as he started to be guest speaker in the yearly opening ceremonies of all the Grandes Ecoles, starting from Sciences Po, put his Mines-Paris-Tech course material online and went on to win over all the educated youth. If you have him again on your show it could be interesting for your US public to hear about nuclear topics from a European point of view, as well as about the way his carbon footprint evaluation method is used now everywhere.

[@lisawilliamson5012]

I am a great fan of Jancovici, and I listen to every podcast he posts. Glad to see Americans discovering him. He gives hope to many on this side of the Atlantic.

[@Ai-immo]

Janco and Nate... finally it's all coming together 🇫🇷 💚🇺🇸

[@Dragases6894]

Les opportunistes carriéristes dénués d'éthique se retrouvent en effet. O tempora O mores ☺️

[@jeremyb1346]

@@Dragases6894 Vous vous plaignez de Janco dans un monde où Nordhaus a eu un Nobel. Concernant le "carriérisme dénué d'éthique" je rappelle que les rats de l'X pantouflent pour aller bosser chez Total, Janco quand à lui, était au SMIC juste après sa sortie d'école. [insérer une locution latine pour faire genre]

[@jameskirk2579]

Janco" ???? He is your brother ? A member of your familly ??????

[@Dragases6894]

@@jeremyb1346 Tous les X sont carriéristes mais ce Zebulon surexcite a trouvé une nouvelle voie pour développer sa carrière : valet du forum de Davos. Une tête a claques avec un flux verbal impressionnant qui ne permet pas l'analyse et la contestation. Un profiteur qui surfe sur le mondialisme. Insupportable ce Zebulon ...

[@jeremyb1346]

@@jameskirk2579 Ahahahaha xD He has 2 nicknames in France, either "JMJ" or "Janco". I prefer the latter because it's funny.

[@pascalbercker7487]

I've been following both Jean-Marc Jancovici and Nate Hagens for several years now, and I'm astounded that they've never read each other's work since they share such similar world views. They have connected practically the same dots in the same way.

[@Lyra0966]

I too was very surprised. I came across Jancovici three years ago when I had plenty of time to watch YT videos during the Covid 'crisis'. In fact, it was probably Jancovici's lectures that first introduced me to some of the basic concepts relating to the energy/economy nexus.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

Did you read Hazel Henderson's book "Politics of the Solar Age"? Late 80s book. A classic in the early 90s - and she just left her body a year ago or two? A professor in Australia has a book with the same claims. I wrote a paper on this in the early 90s for my "environmental economics" course at UW-Madison - and my instructors were PISSED - asked me first to "change my topic" - and then when I doubled down they covered the paper in red circles where I should have commas. haha. The only comment on the content was "I still think economists are smarter than you think they are." Also Professor Robert Nadeau's book "Environmental Endgame" - 2006 or so.... The fact is economists has been the "dismal science" since its very founding as Karl Polyani's called "The Great Transformation" pointed out. Is Nate's podcast title a hat-tip to Polyani?

[@victorruel4186]

EXACTLY!!!!!

[@claudiaangeli3614]

EXACTLY !!!! OMG

[@JDU44]

Congratulations to Jean Marc for his level of English. He is as good as he is in his speeches and conferences that I look at here in France. Happy to discover Nate Hagens that I will listen in the future. His American is also very good and understandable for foreign people. Both of you are forming a fantastic team for the planet

[@Nini-pw4uf]

Well… nope. But he’s understandable and because his mind is clear, he can find shortcuts. I suspect he suffered tremendously, still he got the ball rolling, so congrats !

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

YEEEEEES!! Jancovici is a National Pride!! Vive Jean-Marc! Congratulations for inviting him 🙏🏼

[@Dragases6894]

No rather a national shame 😊

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

@@Dragases6894 pour les gros débiles oui à n’en point douter

[@Dragases6894]

@@SamuelBlackMetalRider Vous vous connaissez bien bravo petit rhinocéros atteint de psittacisme. ☺️ L'admiration pour ce bateleur médiatique pour ce zebulon surexcite signe a coup sur un manque pathologique d'intelligence critique et une absence navrante de curiosité intellectuelle. Vous êtes un cumulard 😊

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

@@Dragases6894 et vous que savez vous? Sur quoi vous basez-vous pour juger de la sorte Jancovici ? Et balayer d’un revers de la main des années de réflexions et de travaux sans apporter aucune explication ? Qu’avez-vous accompli? Quelle grande découverte avez vous fait? Qu’avez-vous apporté à la science?

[@Dragases6894]

@@SamuelBlackMetalRider Votre Zebulon et l'administrateur de cette chaîne n'ont rien de scientifiques et relèvent plutôt de l'opportunisme carriériste. Risibles ... l'un comme l'autre. J'ai un solide esprit critique appuyé sur une bonne culture scientifique notamment dans le domaine de la spectroscopie infrarouge avec beaucoup de curiosité intellectuelle pour parachever le tout. Votre gourou n'est qu'un imposteur dévoué aux puissants et qui sait où se trouve son intérêt bien compris. Pas le moins du monde un scientifique honnête mais un opportuniste double d'un bateleur médiatique. Je respecte Judith Curry et Richard Lindzen qui ne sont pas des rastignacs intéressés et carriéristes de la pseudo-science mais des personnes rigoureuses et indifférentes au chant des sirènes mediatico-politiques. Je méprise votre gourou. Vous devriez lire Eugène Ionesco : Rhinocéros 😊

[@yoanleleu6057]

So glad to finally find Jancovici in english! He deserves to be known more

[@dbadagna]

He's as sharp as a tack! I'm learning so much from this conversation.

[@LizzieJaneBennet]

​@@dbadagnaYou ought to watch one of his conferences on KZbin with english subtiles. They are way more complete, very interesting and easy to understand.

[@jeffoneill3429]

Nice to meet you Jean-Marc Jancovici! As a fellow global citizen, I appreciate you spending your precious energy on helping other people see reality clearly.

[@Canadian_Eh_I]

Blessed be the calories expended 🙏

[@CarlosOddone-z6k]

@@Canadian_Eh_I wonderful! no opposing party to be seen

[@Ryozhukai]

JMJ in English😮So fluent, so fast, not much thinking for words, he just speaks and speaks so smoothly like in French. Unbelievable!!!!

[@dickschwanzstein1789]

You know a Francophone intellectual is truly intelligent when they can even speak English well, cause that’s not true for 99% of their compatriots (with the exception of Canada and French speaking Switzerland perhaps). But the French have a culture and an education system that just doesn’t want them to learn to speak English well. So the ones that do manage to are truly the exception

[@arielmorandy8189]

as a french american I am happy to see you both on the same video. always a pleasure. Great video and glad that JM was speaking so well in english. Good evening everyone.

[@PazLeBon]

hmmm,ive never considered myself an english spaniard, thats sounds wierd to us :)

[@himlingpatrice]

​​@@PazLeBonNorth American way of thinking. I also, don't view myself as a Spanish-French. Would be ridiculous in the old Europe.

[@jjuniper274]

My late husband said that this buzzword "growth" is BS. He said it has been for several decades now. I wish he was here to watch these podcasts. He would have loved them. Thank you, gentlemen.

[@PazLeBon]

why is it bs?

[@LizzieJaneBennet]

​@@PazLeBon Could be because GDP growth = burning more fossiles energy = mass murdering the living world (including hundreds of thousands of people every year) ? Because deforesting Amazonia is counted as growth ? (an example among trillions) Because the mesure of the growth counts the natural ressources it's based on as 0 $ ? ...

[@gibbogle]

@@PazLeBon Because unlimited growth (in the material sense) is impossible. The world is finite. In any case, beyond a certain point having more doesn't make you more happy.

[@runswithraptors]

@@gibbogle this is a new age, liberal logical fallacy. The Earth's abundance knows no limits we are just terrible managers of our economies

[@gibbogle]

@@runswithraptors Of course there are limits. This is just silliness.

[@zleo9923]

For years I've been getting emails from the SHIFT Project, but they are always in French, so I assumed it was spam and I never opened them.....now I know why I was getting them. Excellent interview. Thank you both very much.

[@PACotnoir1]

I really appreciate this encounter and I hope to see it repeated in the coming months or years. By the way, there is a North American Nation where Jancovici is known by a lot of people, it's in the Province of Quebec (Canada).

[@alfredmacleod8951]

Hello : I have a question. I am French living in the USA. I am a follower of both Nate Hagens and Jean-Marc Jancovici. Do you have in Canada someone spreading the same message as Nate and Jean-Marc are doing in the USA and in France ? Cordialement.

[@gmw3083]

​@@alfredmacleod8951Canada has Jordan Peterson and tru duper. In other words, no.

[@fredfred9000]

i am a big follower of the work of jean-marc jancovici ici au quebec , it is recent i new about nate also , maybe i did not search but i did not find anybody that have the same speech here in quebec @@alfredmacleod8951

[@UnhingedBecauseLucid]

Vraiment ? Je ne m'en suis pas aperçu pour être honnête. Faut dire que je n'ai pas de télévision et que le contenu Québécois qui arrive dans mon feed est rarrisime. Quelle en a été la source ... et dans quel cercle ?

[@munyansebastien7127]

@@alfredmacleod8951 Well I don't know any exact equivalent, but we do have Bill Rees, Peter Victor and Yves-Marie Abraham. In Québec Harvey Mead, who recently passed away, was influenced by French collapsology. Désolé pour le message en anglais, je me disais que ça pouvait intéresser d'autres spectateurs.

[@HarDiMonPetit]

Jean-Marc Jancovici is one of the very few who brings a realistic (neither complacently catastrophic , nor complacently optimistic )vision of the conundrum we are in : the pinch between climate warming and oil depletion: more to do with less energy to do it. Nice to discover some across the Atlantic were on the same road.

[@wildriver42]

Seriously, Birds of a Feather! Great Conversation. Thank you, Nate.

[@alfredmacleod8951]

Very happy to listen this episode of TGS. As a French (living in the USA) I have to thank Jean-Marc Jancovici, who is the 1st who showed me the direct links between energy and GDP and energy and climate crisis. I discovered Nate a year ago. I was happy to see that he did the same research on energy, GDP, climate issues ; I liked very much one of his added value : the time bomb that the "debt ponzi pyramid" represents. Hopefully, more and more people will understand their message, because of their tireless work. One aspect we have to find out (Nate and Jean-Marc don't bring an answer). We need to give a 180° turn to our civilization. This 180° turn will have many consequences as less confort, less goods, more collective contribution to the social life, less individualism, less government assistance, more people needed to produce our food...and so on. How we make this future desirable ? Thank you both !

[@coweatsman]

The 180° turn will not be made. Instead war will reign supreme as different powers tries to outsource energy stress on to others. Wars fought under false, exaggerated or fabricated narratives. At no point can we depend on the media to report events accurately either because of genuine stupidity of the media or following unstated agendas. Populists like Trump will come after Trump and who will be worse and more intelligent who will offer scapegoats for why things are not as easy as they used to be.

[@TukozAki]

Being a "bad" consumer (advertisingly speaking if you see what I mean) can give an individual or family crazy overall (vs ego/material only) comfort, as well as help them to cope & bounce back in faster & an easier way. A feedback from one individual is nothing short of selfishness, but please allow me to share a real life one in Europe: For reasons not fully clear at the time I haven't bought a tv, a motor car/bike or a washing machine ever since 1999. And founded a software accounting business in the 2000s that had me meet / work for customers and partners all over the country, w.i.t.h.o.u.t. any motor car, bike or plane 99.5% of the time. Maybe the most underrated point may was having got rid of TV and its commercial pressure first? Now, commuting on a bike helped me keep fit and wash the work drain away (both being overall plus for our family). And train allowed me to work & get rested between each mission. First lesson: simplicity can make a family closer to happiness than one may have thought. The most fascinating lesson was yet to come tho. My private and professional life crashed after loosing both my partner & kids. You may understand it can take a great deal of time to be "back in business". Having some understanding relatives and being a citizen in a welfare (hello, fossil energy) state helped tremendously, but wouldn't have sufficed if I've had debts & alike. I had a single 3 digits debt, and was able to recover thanks to having no added stress and having enough left to get my own cheap home. E.g. just having no car and being used to deal without, all taken into account I saved 4k EUR *each year*. Lesson 2, each layer of material-only "comfort" ones add to his daily routine is a step opposite to freedom. It was then I discovered Jean Marc Jancovici whose countless efforts to explain allowed me, little by little and with some fact checking, to put words on what I mostly felt without being able to clearly understand. Each day when I come back from work / grocery / you-name-it often bypassing cars on my 45 years old bicycle, I feel a deep satisfaction. And physical comfort thanks to the fitness (I'd call it long term investment). And moral if relative comfort: I know the next gas price surge will have little impact on my (freedom?). Also I *do* feel good to put my feet in the same trail as my mind is. Both on the physical part (eg how many tons of stuff subtracted & of greenhouse gas added by me to the next generation means of life), and on the social one (aka emulation: See? yes you can 🙂 eg how the hell can someone transport daily her/himself and his kids in a 2 tons vehicle and pretends she/he helps them kids into their future life is well over my head). Am very happy I discovered M Hagens... 2 weeks ago, and now those two very knowledgeable and didactic humans finally met together! As they say, change then shift in our society won't start at the top.

[@LizzieJaneBennet]

Comme il en donne l'exemple dans ses conférences, ya des gens qui passent leurs vacances avec un vélo🚲, une tente ⛺, dans la nature 🏞️🌳, avec zéro confort et juste le nécessaire de biens de consommation, et ils sont heureux. Il faut juste changer de rêve, décoréler bonheur et consommation.

[@alfredmacleod8951]

@@LizzieJaneBennet tout à fait d'accord avec vous ; mais avouez que cela ne va pas être facile de décorréler bonheur et consommation quand, par exemple, vous voyez les files d'attente devant le magasin éphémère de Shein il y a qqs mois.

[@superpieton]

@@LizzieJaneBennet Entièrement d'accord avec vous.

[@biquettedu31]

We are happy to see one of our most brilliant french citizen speak to you, enjoy !

[@sebastienloyer9471]

❤. Et plein D'enfants

[@MiguelCordeiro1]

Great talk. Great host and great invitee. Thanks.

[@guitoul2781]

I’m French and been watching JMJ for many years. Glad to see there are similar ideas in US and we might finally get better traction in “addressing” the biggest challenge of human history

[@lepoetegribouille1532]

Same here. Thx for supporting him.

[@cfpup]

Oh my gosh! He said it - University of Chicago! BASED!!!!!!

[@aclapierre]

53:51 JM is a bit naive about the « two US: the US of the Coasts (open to Sobriety) and the US of the inside (which is not) »: the Coastal elites still believe they can work their way out of Sobriety via Technology (or while supporting more Fracking even)… and thus haven’t changed their lifestyles or consumption a bit.

[@AlexandreMarque13]

As a french guy I was happily surprised you interviewed Jean-Marc Jancovici. I hope it will result as a strong bridge between our two countries concerning global warming issues. Thanks for this really interesting video.

[@MrPaddy924]

Where do you find them, Nate? This guy is spot on! So well informed!. I live in France, so I'm going to look for some of his talks 'en francaise'. He's got a great understanding of the issues. On a separate note, I find that, in general, the French are much better informed on climate change and the challenges pertaining to energy, food and other systems than the average Brit or American. There seems to be a lot of discussion about these matters on French TV and radio. Even the French President, Macron, has been reported to have uttered the unthinkable; "The age of abundance is over".

[@Apjooz]

"Even the French President, Macron, has been reported to have uttered the unthinkable; "The age of abundance is over"." I'm spooked! Because that is spooky language that holds no actual information.

[@jameslee-dp6cb]

I'm an American. I don't speak French. Ask him about the viability of low temperature of Thorium for electrical generation. Fission reactors are too hot. It is reported that they generate heat equal to the surface of the sun. This heat has to be cooled by indirect water circulation transferring the excess heat to the environment to prevent meltdown. Thorium reactors don't get as hot. And thorium can be shut down faster than fission reactors. Thorium is plentiful and plutonium is not. Thorium is scalable where fission reactors are not as scalable. Mining is already down to the last tenth of one percent where it was three percent forty years ago in the renewables field. So we know the renewables, are not a sustainable solution. So small scale reactors might be the only sustainable choice we have. Since Thorium is so abundant, why has science rejected these reactors?

[@Ai-immo]

"Where do you find them?" Janco might easily have 10x more views on than Nate on KZbin ;)

[@MrPaddy924]

@@Ai-immo I don't watch much You Tube. Just Nate and Rachel from Planet Critical, but I'll be searching for more content from him in future.

[@Lanthanideification]

@@jameslee-dp6cb You've got a few facts wrong there. Fission nuclear reactors operate in the region from 400-1000°C, vastly less than the temperature of the sun. You are thinking of fusion, which has not yet been harnessed for power production (and potentially never will be, although companies like Helion in the US are making promising progress). Standard fission reactors use uranium not plutonium, although plutonium can also be used. Thorium reactors were researched in the 70s and a 6MW demonstration reactor was built and operated in the US for 15,000 hours during the 1960s, but its use was discontinued because thorium can't be used to create fissile material for nuclear bombs whereas uranium reactors can and that's where the US government wanted to spend its resources. More recently China has a 2MW demonstration thorium reactor. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power

[@geocaching7528]

Being a french speaking follower of Jancovici for a couple of years on KZbin, the suggestion algorithm just put this video on top of my list. And I am so glad it did it! This is by far the most well-conducted, clear and interesting interview of JMJ I have heard so far. I am so glad to be now a subscriber of your channel. Thank you for this video, that I will share extensively! (I already did to the Chief Sustainable Officer in my company)

[@quentinb.6098]

likewise, great interview !

[@Nini-pw4uf]

Truth. I even got to learn about his personal opinion on several topics, despite having watched many of his conferences and itws. Great interviewer, straight to the fact, good timing, selected questions. Good job.

[@toddthedrysocket]

I looked for the English version of the graphic book done in collaboration with Christophe Blaine, and purchased a Kindle version from Amazon, although the printed version in English apparently is scheduled for publication in March 2024. A couple points made here were ones I thought worth repeating - that effects of projected temperature rises may have been underestimated, and that governments - at least "democratic" ones - will respond to this issue only after the public is behind it. This suggests to me that our American public, in particular, will probably lag behind the rest of the developed world. There are reasons for this, of course.

[@laurentrobelin3479]

Hello from Kanaky New-Caledonia in south Pacific ! Thank you for this high quality content ! It is such a masterclass about realism, courage and how to manage collectivily the burden of adressing fearfull global issues. Really appreciate your work and Jean Marc answers !

[@stoenchu122]

"Today we have retirement thanks to abundante energy" ... i have never thought of this this way and my mind just exploded

[@ladislasdurand8136]

A red pill moment ...

[@reuireuiop0]

And, at reaching the point we'll have less abundant -ie, scarcity of energy, people will start to have large families again, because that was the way of old, before retirement existed, children were your guarantee for old age care.

[@PazLeBon]

but how? my pension has lost value i cant even afford energy the dimwit lolol

[@LizzieJaneBennet]

Retirement, AND hollydays, leisure society, education, ... An AVERAGE human being lives as if he had 200 slaves working hard for him everytime. Can't imagine how many slaves work for an american !

[@metchoumetch3176]

JMJ says the same fot divorce, it doubles your consumption of energy.

[@Bbluenight]

After seeing the video "the big simplification" and reading Jeancovici's book "Le monde sans fin" it is mind blowing to see you both sharing the same analysis. As Jeancovici said, as the planet is burning more and more each summer, regular people start to aknowledge, reand and talk about it more and more and change will hopefully occur in time from bottom up

[@Thomas-wn7cl]

Janco was an excellent guest. I thoroughly enjoyed this interview. Thanks

[@jameskirk2579]

"Janco" ???? He is your brother ? A member of your familly ??????

[@johnfrenchie8781]

I did not know Nate, I came through Jean-Marc linkedin post. Nate is just excellent asking questions, helping reformulation and yes - both have a lot in common. Eager to discover more from The Great Simplification and see how he addresses issues with the U.S. folks !

[@LizzieJaneBennet]

Idem

[@Mapalata]

His cartoon book should be given to every kid and adult

[@xavierdupla9766]

Comic book is called "World without end" for those who are interested and it's just mindblowing

[@PazLeBon]

@@xavierdupla9766 ?? word without end is some religious stuff

[@xavierdupla9766]

@@PazLeBon oups sorry for typo. It was world not word :-)

[@JeanPaul-f4d]

Another exemplary episode featuring Mr. Jancovici, whom I've been following for years from this side of the Atlantic. While I was unfamiliar with Mr. Hagens before, their combined insights offer a holistic understanding of our planet's current state. Incorporating viewpoints from thought leaders like Arthur Keller, Vincent Mignerot, and Aurélien Barrau would significantly enrich the conversation if possible on the same show. Additionally, I surmise there are comparable experts in the US, and incorporating their insights would be invaluable for a complete global perspective. As grave as it is, I believe climate change might just be one of the lesser challenges we confront. I particularly appreciate Keller's systemic analysis of our planet and his proactive strategies to navigate the challenges ahead.

[@LizzieJaneBennet]

Me too. I ❤️ Arthur Keller. I used to be a big fan of Aurélien Barrau too, but he doesn't offer other solutions than poetry. And his so rich vocabulary and concepts may be sometimes uneasy to understand.

[@auroreleve9570]

Salut Nates! Très intéressant! Merci pour ta chaîne!

[@samuelramambason2503]

Bravo Janco! Quel plaisir de vous voir en anglais, pour une fois! Mille mercis!

[@Mtnshell56]

Beautiful discussion. Thank you

[@Tanuki65]

Thank you both - another great episode clearly laying out the realities. Go shifters!

[@Dragases6894]

Go shitters rather ☺️

[@sergehorion7155]

Thank you for offering the opportunity to JM Jancovici to reach another audience. Geology was a passion I had since a young age. Little that I knew following randomly courses on line from an obscure professor in Paris Mines School several years ago that this man (Jancovici) would explain to me the world as it is: fossil energy consumption is at the base of our modern society. And this triggered the greatest threat humanity faces now: global warming. With simple words and a direct approach, Jancovici has already convinced tenth of thousands of people in France that our future will not be business as usual.

[@stefanbernardknauf467]

Whouw, I'm impressed. Mr Jancovici is kind of the Simon Michaux before Simon, if you know what I mean. Very rare to have Anglo-American people notice what's going on in (the much smaller) French community. I think Simon Michaux now brings the analysis a level higher, having his background in mining. Thanks to your work. Keep up your great work!

[@sebastienloyer9471]

Petite mais forte

[@guycloutier4182]

I’ve followed Jean-Marc for years, and discovered Nate a year ago. I’m very glad to hear they had not followed one another: two independent appraisals of the situation. At the beginning, just after seeing some of Nate’s work, I remember thinking « Hair of a dog! This guy is heavily picking from Jean-Marc. » 😅😂 Then - the resemblance being so high - my second thought was « Wait a minute. Resemblance is too high. They can’t be picking from one another, it would be too gross. We’re at one of those shared conclusions because ‘physical & financial laws’ are the same whatever the country. » We’ve seen this in the history of chemistry, where the French are taught it’s the law of ThingAmaJig, and the Brits call it the law of ThisOtherGuy. Convergence & simultaneous. Wonderful. Congratulations to both guys.

[@hlim431]

Brilliant Summations Jean-Marc

[@dankoepp68]

19:15 - 20:45 is the answer to my decade long quest asking:" Is there a possibility that smart ppl like Hagens, Smil, Diamond, Bendell and many more are mistaken?" What to do with the subsequent, warranted raising fear?

[@pochgames6690]

It was a great pleasure to listen to this talk and I hope there will be many others : as Nate said, you have much in common and maybe having two climate-heroes on each side of the atlantic could help spreading the word about how to address this issue properly. A suggestion for Nate to interview another Frenchman with growing influence : you may find you also have many things in common with Arthur Keller, who considers the issue as part of a dynamical system and has broader view about it. He also speaks about a great simplification of our world in the near future. Cheers and thanks for your work : there is a lot to discover on your channel, i'll happily dig into it !

[@roberthay8217]

Hi Nate, Jean-Marc Jancovici has helped me get more up to speed with your stuff. I'm new to your "world" but "think" I get it, well some of it! For now I have a few buzz phrases: 1 - our metrics are driving the wrong behaviour, 2 - Energy facilitates human existence and development (but so far with the wrong measures). 3 - "Energy" is the currency of human existence. 4 - Net zero is a distraction, the issue is far greater. 5 - CO2 is "the" cancer not the issue. 6 - Given the "relevant" metrics and "sincere" discussions we can (must) develop a "balanced" energy program, with realistic timelines, to limit CO2 emissions and fund "solutions", if we are to save humanity. Thank God I'm 70 . . . 🙂

[@abderrahimbenmoussa4359]

Well, I suppose you might miss the exciting times ahead, but as someone who will likely be in a leadership role when the challenges arise, I must say that your catchphrases had better resonate, or we'll be in trouble. My main takeaway from all this is that we will need to achieve more with less controllable energy, and that technical efficiency will account for no more than 10% of the solution. So, I have no idea how we will do it. As Jean-Marc said, it will likely come this way : less energy = less gdp = less productions = natural population decline = less consumption = less production, etc until we get a new equilibrium between population/consumption and energy availability. But this happening in the span of 50 years in a world with disrupted climate means wars, conflict, famines and most certainly the population loss in the poorest countries rather than the richest ones, although population growth is already stunted in rich countries.

[@karenkoerner6015]

"Supress greed." Yes.

[@resiliencealimentaire]

A discussion with Arthur Keller would be a great clarification too ! 🧠

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

Totally but can Arthur converse so well in English ? Janco was great, very few mistakes, he was able to convey almost everything he wanted to say / had in mind. Also Keller’s vision & theory are very abstract. Harder to convey IMO

[@arthur-keller]

Hello to you two. Thanks for the comments. ​@@SamuelBlackMetalRider Regarding my ability to converse in English, no worries, I'm used to giving keynotes and debating in both languages. Unfortunately none of my interventions in English has been filmed so far. Six more of those are planned by the end of this year, I hope one of them will be recorded... As for the fact that according to you my "vision & theory are very abstract" and "harder to convey", let me assure you that most people are not aligned with this point of view. Part of my work certainly involves manipulating theoretical concepts, but always with a view to extracting tangible, pragmatic proposals. Having spent years honing my teaching skills on these subjects, I may ascertain that my message is no less palatable than that of Jean-Marc Jancovici. Since 2016, I have expressed my ideas and taught my approach through approx. 200 presentations/speeches/round tables/debates, to individuals with widely varying levels of education and knowledge of the subjects, and I believe I've never 'lost' my audiences. My core contribution is indeed of a methodological and strategic nature, but it is also packed with concrete proposals, and driven by the purpose of enabling people to take relevant and effective action. My way of doing things may feel 'abstract' to you, I get it. However I beg to differ: we're not talking here about highly theoretical academic conceptualisations or metaphysical considerations; what I propose is always directly applicable to reality. I therefore believe I'm far removed from philosophers, academic thinkers and theorists who deal solely in concepts! Some specialists focus on providing insights into the roots of the situation, which can be interesting or even useful; for my part, beyond the analytical dimension of my work as a systemicist and a risk manager, I first and foremost stand among those whose vocation is to empower people. In addition, let me stress that I routinely teach community resilience to local elected representatives, and that my job is to provide them with actionable levers to change things in an effective and meaningful way. I don't think I've never been criticized by these people for being too 'abstract' or unclear. In a nutshell: I'd say that the term 'abstract' is highly subjective and that, in an interview, the level of abstraction in my answers depends on the questions I'm asked! As for the ability to 'convey' concepts, even complex ones, to a variety of audiences, this is precisely what I've been specializing in for quite some time now and that's the main reason why people ask me to speak in the first place. I reckon that wouldn't be an obstacle, especially on Nate Hagens's channel :) Thanks for having shared your view. All the best, AK

[@CaptainSportExtreme]

So happy to see JMJ on an american channel. Those informations need to be spread as much as possible. Not enough people are aware of the issue or aware of the consequences of just waiting. The amount of misinformation worldwide is mindblowing.

[@deusvultfpv6957]

Indeed our information ecosystem (media, social networks and newspapers) is totally broken. Make sense of our world has to be our priority #1 because we can't take good decision if everyone live with a different reality.

[@CaptainSportExtreme]

@@deusvultfpv6957 Sometimes I wish there was some kind of control on the information to eradicate all these social medias and useless or misinformed videos on youtube so that people can learn a thing or 2. In France there is only 1 or 2 existing channels related to science. Nobody cares about anything besides dumb content, it's scary. The only consistent ones I can find are american.

[@grahammewburn]

Modern agriculture has replaced human labour with huge machines powered by diesel - oil. An oil crisis means a food crisis.

[@christopherstorey1125]

Thanks as always for the show!

[@ThomiX0.0]

dear Nate, you have brought us again one of your amazing explanatory guests. We come to see the facts more clearly every post. Sobriety, btw, is a word from your dictionary, and is not (as you politely did) spoken with a French intonation.🙂 It is often used to point to the Dutch behaviour, not speaking with bravery or fanciful.. (although being Dutch myself, I experience that coming from ancient times) The word 'sober' means the same to us, 'landing with both feet on the ground', which has a lot in common with your work. Watching our regular daily traffic, I notice the change from small cars to more and more big SUV's which will meet no gravel roads in their entire life, and could be seen as 'ego-enhancement' for those who are in need of it. The 'red-pil' will be hard to swallow, and needs small steps to be taken instead of ignored. And I don't know of any 'Nate' or 'Jean-Marc' being active in the Netherlands.. It worries me every day.

[@Kakikiwi-eu2kr]

This is somewhat surprising. I thought the Netherlands were quite aware of global environmental problems, as a rich, educated and liberal country. Also, it might be a bit longer term, but rising sea levels will hit you guys... differently

[@LizzieJaneBennet]

I used to consider Netherlands 🇳🇱 as one of the most "sober" countries because of their great transports culture : excellent public transports and use of bicycles🚲.👍 And you are directly concerned by (and preparing yourselves to) the raising of the sea. So I suppose dutch people are already well informed.

[@CarlosOddone-z6k]

Who said I want you to panic?

[@ThomiX0.0]

@@CarlosOddone-z6k responsibility is mine now. Just because I have seen the picture for us all. no panic, but thoughts..:-)

[@ThomiX0.0]

@@LizzieJaneBennet, all kids start with having a bicycle before they go to school, this cultural habit does not count for sobriety. It's a habit which stays with you, and there isn't a question about it. When free from school, there is only a question, where to go..not how you go. 🙂 The water issue, is seriously studied by scientists, but among them there are those who think it doesn't come that far, and those who think we have to let go of this land. Politics will not touch the subject, as there are no nice answers. Publicly there is a great silence, the media does go with the flow and is mostly 'right wing' controlled. Yes, we have our personal ideas about it, and let us be reasonable, dikes cannot be build thàt high, right? One day we have to go. Sobriety is 'back to base' The soil on which I live, does not have a name, so let it go when you need to.:-)

[@Seawithinyou]

An Inspiring podcast with Jean-Marc Jancovici and well done France Thank you dearly Nate and shall look into Jean-Marc’s The Shift Project 🕊🌏❤️😇

[@grahamt5924]

A managed decline is not inspiring.

[@Gaza4Life2024]

Great episode. Hadnt hear of Jean_Marc before but looking forward to learning more about his work.

[@remiforget7640]

1:22 1:23 Selfishness and/or avarice is a serious problem, it lead to vanity, loneliness and solitude. The oposite is sharing sincere and profound experiences of lifes, reaching happiness and plenitude.

[@dalebirononpoetry]

Just an absolutely brilliant conversation, with so many insights and amazing quotes I’ve lost count. One of the things that strikes me in this moment is how profoundly our economic system is failing us. This is not new information, however, the way it was expressed was so very clear.

[@chookbuffy]

Agreed. My latest red pill is the realization that I’m the USA that big banks are now buying up residential real estate, completing with first home buyers driving up price and then just renting them out….a nation of renters or debters is a nation of slaves. The economy is now eating its young

[@dalebirononpoetry]

@@chookbuffy I fear you are right. This is where any sense of actually adding value is lost to a rentier economy...

[@dbadagna]

@@chookbuffy Paying 40%-50% (or even more) of one's income for rent is a reality for very many people these days, but this is rarely discussed (including on this channel). Once the fossil fuels run out, people aren't able to drive to work, and most fossil fuel-reliant businesses go under, will the landlords stop charging rent since their tenants will no longer be able to earn enough to pay it?

[@chookbuffy]

@@dbadagna yeah that is the big question. A friend says that since nobody will be able to afford the rent that the landlords will have to decrease rents...but something deeply skeptical in me is telling me that it isn't going to happen.

[@noahbrown4388]

Good conversation, thanks guys 👍🏻

[@thomasd2444]

38:29 - And I remember that 20 years ago I did some kind of TV show in France & we elaborated a false weather forecast for 2090, & the temperature that we mentioned was 40 degrees celsius which is something that we get today each summer in France.

[@Milhouse77BS]

This is excellent introduction to the problem of energy.

[@rapauli]

Shouldn't we distinguish between Carbon Energy (dirty), and Renewable energy (clean) ?

[@Apjooz]

But it didn't explain what the problem is.

[@life42theuniverse]

@@rapauliAll energy* is solar energy. Carbon is fossilized solar energy. Renewables are solar energy of the present. *Nuclear energy is interstellar solar energy created by super novae.

[@life42theuniverse]

@@ApjoozThe problem kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYukanukpZiUjJY

[@robertpedersen6831]

Nice catchphrase

[@maxmax-sr9lh]

Wonderful my favorite character JMJ !!

[@BetterAncestors]

Kia ora More gems to help us on our journey, Thank you both. "Will we succeed one day in putting ethics above our greed, for example, will we succeed? It seems to me that this debate is much more fundamental, even though I've been trained as an engineer and for a very, very long time, I was convinced that the future was in technical fixes. Well, now I believe that actually it's in the way we accept to change our cultural references, which is much harder actually. It's much easier to build a nuclear reactor than changing our minds." It's election time again in New Zealand. The country feels anxious. Unfortunately the politicians are not talking of moderation, of sobriété. Perhaps next time. Cheers for your mahi

[@jlindcary]

I was surprised to hear at the end of your very interesting discussion that Jean-Marc Jancovici is an engineer who often comments on nuclear energy. Much of your discussion revolved around fossil fuels. The obvious answer to energy scarcity is to utilize more energy-dense systems to provide abundant energy to help undo the destruction to the environment wrought by use of sparse low quality energy. I trust that you will have your guest return to discuss the advantages that humankind could find in nuclear energy.

[@pignouf27]

JMJ is a strong advocate for nuclear energy. But he also considers nuclear will be too slow to deploy in order to match the steep decrease of fossil fuels usage needed for the +2°C climate target. In his words, nuclear is a "rescue parachute" in a world of shrinking energy availability.

[@AlexFillios]

god bless you nate you transmit knowledge admirably!!!!!hallejulla brother in arms...

[@barrycarter8276]

Excellent choice of guest Jean-Marc Jancovici, it’s good to hear/see there are others with similar views to yourself in spreading The Great Simplification’s beliefs more widely👍🤔

[@VideoCineEntertain]

Thanks Nate Hagens ! I'm happy to see that JM.Jancovici throughts find an echo beyond Europe.

[@danielvonbose557]

At 18:00 or so mining is mentioned. Mining will continue on decreasing metal content of the ore until that concentration reaches the same as the metal content of old landfills. Then the landfills will be mined for their discarded metals.

[@missh1774]

Had to replay segments often throughout the video. For now, im tagging areas I want to go back to later. 37:00 49:07 52:59

[@hannsjurgenhodann6268]

This is an extremely important insight in my opinion. At 26 min Jean-Marc Janovici explains that if the supply of oil diminishes because of a permanent shortage of fossil fuels this does not imply that oil prices must go up as is generally assumed.

[@beatreuteler]

The only escape from this lion pit is to replace oil from being the leading source of energy.

[@hannsjurgenhodann6268]

@thibautbarguil - Thank you for this contribution. The mechanism Tverberg mentions would probably operate in parallel to the mechanism identified by Janovici. I think it is quite likely that after a supply shock leading to a permanent cut in the supply of oil, there would initially be some erratic behaviour of oil prices.

[@gibbogle]

@@beatreuteler Replace it with ...?

[@beatreuteler]

@@gibbogle Replace it with every option we possibly have, depending on the application. Individul traffic: Electrify it. Heating: Heat Pump. Where possible: Bio Mass. Geothermal, Solar thermal and Solar Voltaics etc. etc. Pull every register don't forget Wind.

[@superpieton]

​@@beatreuteler I see two issues with your assertions. 1) you imagine keeping on "business as usual" with other energy sources (electricity is not an energy source, it is a vector, you need to produce it with a primary source... which one ?) without even questionning "infinite growth". Fact is that pollution comes from the massification of energy usage, not from the nature of the energy itself 2) every single replacement to oil needs oil to exist, both as a raw material for countless products, but as the fuel for moving the production means at each step of their making, installation and maintenance. To sum it up: alternative to oil die with oil itself.

[@marcbatifoulier7686]

To all the viewers of this channel, an important information : Jean Marc jancovici is the inventor of the carbon footprint ( 2000 to 2004)

[@stephenboyington630]

There is definitely something to the idea that some countries/regions have gone through hard times and that makes them more able to go through another.

[@mindsindialogue]

Based on Jean Marc's description, I believe that the mind's response to shocking information that contradicts established thinking consists of two stages. In the first stage, the mind becomes aware of the information, experiencing a jolt that challenges the status quo. In the second stage, the mind actively seeks additional information to reconcile this shock, resulting in thoughts that anticipate future possibilities. Cognitive psychology

[@PazLeBon]

nahh, thats just your perception of it

[@mindsindialogue]

@@PazLeBon Is that your counter argument or you here to troll for free?

[@BernardMcCarty]

Thank you so much for this discussion! The explanation of the relationship between the absence of elasticity for essential commodities, and energy & GDP from around 20:31 to 26:41 is superb! I had to rewind several times to get the concept straight! Coming from a physics background, when I look around at what passes for conventional economics it appears to be little more than financial astrology... how on Earth are we supposed to maintain a coherent civilisation and survive the 20thC based on such nonsense? Thank you again Nate and Jean-Marc. Afterthought: How do the concepts discussed here align (or otherwise) with Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)? That is, does MMT take into account the energy used in our economy in its theories on money creation? For example, although MMT acknowledges that governments can create money "as needed", it does not necessarily address the real-world resource constraints, including energy resources - that is, no government can create oil and steel "as needed" 🤔

[@zefezffezefzef718]

No, the economic science (be it classical, neo-classical or keynesian) doesnt account for the ressource constraints at all. In the economic science world the resources are unlimited.

[@stuartdouglas7366]

Wow! You and he need to put a book together. Maybe bring Dan and Steve in!

[@martinmtweedale286]

How is it that living here in North America I have never heard of this person. Our media is so devoted to spreading the conventional wisdom about how humanity will save itself by electrifying everything that they just ignore someone like Janovici despite the fact that he is a well-respected figure in France. My only criticism of your interview is that you never asked him about what he thinks are the prospects for renewables as a source of energy. But merci beaucoup for introducing me to this amazing thinker.

[@abitbohr]

Jancovici is above all an engineer and physicist. He has a rational, measured approach about renewable energies. He demonstrates that they are completely useless except in some rare edge cases. He is hardcore pro nuclear and pro electrification as it is the path of least resistance to soften the pain of the collapse.

[@martinmtweedale286]

Thanks for this background info.@@abitbohr

[@wanchattheeranaew9893]

Great conversation from the great mind!

[@sebastienloyer9471]

Bravo pour la belle entrevue.😊

[@smartcaja6681]

This was a very interesting interview. Thank you both.

[@christiancollet9493]

I am happy JMJ has provided a great English interview that I can share with my Anglophone friends (I am in Quebec, Canada). I just wanted to indicate that I dont think that it is greed per se that is our problem, but the fight for power among the elites. In British Columbia there are artificial oyster beds previously maintained by First Nations that are many thousands of years old. They did not overexploit them or grow them year over year. Indigenous people were even considered lazy by the Western colonizers. My "working hypothesis" is that Western culture evolved as to survive the relentless wars and fights for domination so as to maximize the production of men as fighters and workers (hence male children are considered more valuable, and women bodies must be controlled) and the production of wealth to arm and feed them. Most of the history I learned was about wars, conquests etc, which are fights between elites of differnts regions. This is exactly that world view that is behind the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, Russia has a population 3x bigger with more weapons so it feels it can conquer Ukraine. In previous centuries, war brought fame and honor to the conqueror -- just look at how the French consider Napoleon Bonaparte. Wealth is also a great visual marker of social position by having access to exclusive products. Mafia bosses like to offer their guests a species of clam/oyster (I forget which exactly) that is endangered, *because* it is illegal to harvest them. Sobriety/poverty is unpleasant because it imposes explicit limits (instead of implicitely establishing them by lack of revenue) and goes against our social model of success being living like royalty. It is not a bug that the wealthy minority consumes a great part of the resources (ex. airplane travel), it is a built-in feature of the current system: they have to to show their standing. I have heard of the book Social Limits to Growth by Fred Hirsch, but did not read it yet. It would be great if you had a podcast about it. Thanks for the great interview!

[@dbadagna]

Copied from KZbin user @littlejohn8100: ====== I think we have an obstacle everyone seems to be overlooking or ignoring. Imagine a spectrum for human behavior. On one end, we have cooperative people. The middle point is non-cooperative people. The other end is exploitative people. The vast majority of people fall between the cooperative and non-cooperative sides of the spectrum. The problem is that many people in leadership positions, both economic and political, are at the other end of the spectrum. They don't think like us, they aren't cooperative, they are exploitative. These people are drawn to power in ways cooperative people just aren't. They want to accumulate power to take advantage of other people and the environment. These people have a disproportionate amount of agency in our current system. This is what we are banging our heads against when we try to create a better world for everyone. Just think about the disproportionate effect on climate change the wealthy have compared to the rest of us. Yachts, private jets, several homes, exclusive clubs, car collections, this list goes on and on. If we cut their consumption to 50x the average consumer how much time would we buy ourselves to move our society in a more sustainable direction? I think our tendency to project our own emotions onto these people helps them hide in plain sight so that most people don't even realize this wall exists between us and where we need to go.

[@ralphtoivonen2071]

Back in the 80's I was opposed to nuclear energy now I regret taking that position since we have failed to implement any sound alternative.

[@FiDelZarlar]

After viewing most of Jancovici’s videos in french it is good to discover he actually understands and speaks in english as well. But in this case he found a soulmate who is as uninformed about the fast positive developments in the energy world towards renewables such as SWB combinations. But never a word about this! Only fossile fuel and nuclear will be there forever! Please take a sabbatical to study that evolution and come back with a new insight!

[@dylanthomas12321]

I think Nate has always been behind the curve on renewables and has shown little interest in getting up to speed.

[@superpieton]

@@dylanthomas12321 Please take time to think how can renewables (as you mean them) are possible without fossil fuels. Come back when you have the solution to build windmills and solar panels with only windmills and solar panels...

[@superpieton]

« Please take a sabbatical to study that evolution and come back with a new insight! » All these evolutions are possible because of fossil fuels. Without them, they wouldn't even exist. 🤷‍♂

[@xtreem0302]

Thanks to both of you. Briliant

[@lavisseregis830]

Great content. I believe « sufficiency » is the correct translation of what we mean by « sobriété » in French. « Sobriety » in English refers to staying away from alcohol, drugs, etc. It is a faux ami if I’m not mistaken 😊

[@avii.8075]

Sobriety is appropriate. Mass consumption is a deadly drug humanity is severely addicted to.

[@abderrahimbenmoussa4359]

The interview was extraordinary, both in terms of the questions posed and the responses provided. Not a moment was wasted on tangential discussions, such as nuclear versus renewable energy. If there were to be a follow-up interview, it might be helpful to highlight that the focus of the debate shouldn't be on these technical details, but on the decisions we make as individuals and the leaders we choose to support in shifting our consumption towards more sustainable options that don't force us into a cycle of impoverishment. As someone who has lived in Canada, the US, France, and Switzerland, I can attest that Europe is better prepared for this shift, having never fully embraced the excesses of consumer culture. Small homes, compact cars, and shorter distances are still the norm, and though reducing consumption may be difficult, it is not impossible. France, with its tradition of democratic socialism (in the European sense, not communism), may be particularly well-suited to weather this transition. The French are accustomed to facing challenges collectively, and the sporadic outbreaks of violence may serve as a kind of inoculation against the upheavals expected in the coming decades. Moreover, the culture of "terroir" and "local production" of goods, along with that of Luxury might play in favour of this transition, since both put higher value on goods than they need for production which is basically a chosen inflation.

[@PazLeBon]

orin other words, we're screwed :)

[@libertysprings2244]

I have friend in TX who lives without electricity (sleeps on her porch) so life is still possible with much less use of energy, as it gets more expensive. Food and clean water production and transport of food would be priority. We can do without a lot of the rest.

[@christinearmington]

Yes, I remember when sleeping porches in the South were a thing. 🫠

[@chrisruss9861]

My early years in North Queensland Australia on a farm were without electricity. We slept under mosquito nets on a verandah. The house was on stilts. Being thin and active helped us adapt to heat.

[@abderrahimbenmoussa4359]

to be honest, even if i am a tech guy, i never been more happy than when living in a small van with very little energy consumed and spending my time out there in the wild or reading / writing. We don't need much but the more we get the more we think we need more to be happy. You get a big house, now you need to cool / heat a big house, so now you need money, so you need a better paying job again, so you need to work more or elsewhere, so you need a car to get there, etc. In a van, all I needed is somewhere to plug my portable batteries from time to time and 5 min lukewarm showers.

[@lookinin123]

@@abderrahimbenmoussa4359 A garden sprayer with a long hose works wonders on our backcountry adventures. No need for the shower to be lukewarm either - boil a gallon on the Coleman stove, dilute with cold water and voila! paradise. 🥰

[@PazLeBon]

thats just dumb when we have solar etc lol oklets all learn from a dumb person

[@renimon100]

Thank you Nate for the question on slavery- this problem has been on my mind since I started thinking about the simplification. We just started to have more equal societies- gender, age, ethnicity and race were less and less base for exploitation. Our societies today are still not strong enough to withstand the breakdown of the morales due to economic gain, EVERYONE who has ANY power over other people will used it to subjugate them. I’m afraid there won’t be any LOW or ORDER, at least for while, but brute force and chaos - bandits everywhere, I’m wondering if property or personal safety will be possible at all in the coming times…

[@timfallon8226]

Wny don't climate alarmists constantly cite the scientific peer reviewed papers that prove man made co2 is changing climate and that the change is detrimental? Is it because those scientific papers do not exist because the evidence does not exist?

[@skeetorkiftwon]

Your proclaimed "equalities" aren't the case. What we've witnessed is a decline in the expectations on individual output due to a reduced dependency on individual contribution. No one argues that you're "equal" to LeBron James in the field of baskethoops. But because there is no immediate social pressure to produce the base Malthusian needs such as food and shelter there is no impact felt by you from people pretending to be cat gender on the internet.

[@christinearmington]

@@skeetorkiftwon🙀

[@Lyra0966]

The awful prospect of growing slavery as energy resources deplete is a disturbing potentialiry. What also scares me greatly is the decline in resources that society might well choose devote to caring for those who are unable to care for themselves. So, disabled people, those with serious illnesses, orphaned children and the elderly could be left either to fend for themselves or otherwise die. My prediction is that society will choose simply to cull the most vulnerable members of society along with those who are regarded as non-productive. Logan's Run springs to mind.

[@skeetorkiftwon]

@@Lyra0966 You're not wrong, but there's no single perfect game strategy. Brilliant mathematician cripples and kind wealthy people taking in orphans will exist as they always have. Marcus Aurelius or Moses are two notable examples. The issue at hand is to do what you can to make the world more moral, and one of our orphans had an address for that: "Say no more about what a good man is, go be one." -Aurelius

[@rebdomine1]

Great video guys, great minds think alike.

[@thomasd2444]

38:10 - 10 years ago, I had not heard of the possibility of the whole Amazon Forest turning into a dry forest or even a savannah. Something which is today considered possible.

[@diegoevrard-broquet8050]

can't wait to hear for part 2

[@toumagar]

Amazing to see this convergence of views on both sides of the Atlantic!

[@PazLeBon]

'a' view of a certain demographic

[@thelonioustatum1822]

the common point is that they tell the truth!

[@cdineaglecollapsecenter4672]

Lots of people connected these dots years ago. They just weren't economists. And they wouldn't have been allowed to be economists.

[@reuireuiop0]

That's what an old economies professor told William Rees when he started out. "You won't last long in this field of you tell that story"

[@gialamhuynh5448]

39:41 I think Jean Marc wanted to say « corn ». He said « 🌽 maïs » which is the French for corn.

[@aliendroneservices6621]

39:26 39:27 39:28 39:29 *_Maize,_* in English. Corn means grain.

[@gialamhuynh5448]

@@aliendroneservices6621 Wonderful thank you ! 👍🏼👍🏼

[@alexanderleuchte5132]

Every time somebody says "life expectancy" without the epitheton "average" or "statistical" furthers the common misunderstanding that people used to die at 30. If half of all babies die at birth but everybody remaining lives to the age of 100 the avrage life expectancy is 50. In the Middle Ages some people obviously had plenty time for Scholasticism and for example to think about the question how many angels could fit on the head of a pin

[@abderrahimbenmoussa4359]

They did but most of them relied on other sources of income. Mostly philosophers had either inherited money, were of rich descent or were monks living of the rest of the monasteries productions which in Europe was teaching, books, or even chesse, honey, whine, beer, etc. Same in antiquity. The philosophes had time to think and develop philosophy because everything was done by slaves. The difference in the modern world is that robots (which means litteraly slaves) do the work and they require energy. As for the average life expectancy, Monks between 1500-1640 AD live a mean 67 years ± 8.8 years which was way higher than that of the comon folks. As for children, onces they reached the age of 10, their life expectancy was 32.2 years, and for those who survived to 25, the remaining life expectancy was 23.3 years. So, while the average might have been indeed 30, the median among survivors of childhood death was around 40-50 years old which remains 30 years shy of what we can expect nowadays and we can care for those people at these ages through retirement only because we have plenty of energy.

[@alexanderleuchte5132]

​@@abderrahimbenmoussa4359 Of course i'm not arguing that, all i'm saying is that there were elites that had leisure time and that a lot of that intellectual capacity was spent on purely speculative transcendetal matters and not on developing practical technology

[@grimaldos1000]

Great interview Mr Hagens, just go on !

[@greggsenne1268]

There they go and I must run after them because I am their leader.

[@Skunk106]

Another great podcast Nate. Jean Marc brings great info to the discussion. Please bring attention and awareness to Peter Zeihan's macro geopolitical work. I think you will find a lot if overlap in view points and info and also a very wide net cast.

[@reuireuiop0]

Zeihan comments, however interesting, mostly aren't concerning the environment, except, where it might have effects on the political.

[@Skunk106]

@reuireuiop0 Peter doesn't generally present the macro picture from an environmental viewpoint, but that doesn't make it any less relevant. He does address renewables and nuclear in video format but does so much better and with more enviro info in his books. Nate and his guests are some of the best sources I've found so far who are presenting some of the broad slices of the world picture without white washing it. Mass media barely touches any of this. You can't separate the environment from politics when it is politics that are driving nearly everything. Energy is just fuel for politics, with America uniquely situated to capitalize on it with a govermental structure that is both beautifully functional and distressingly dysfunctional. Politics is an improper conductor dictating in the global orchestra of energy, environment, demographics, etc. Ecology should be the overarching, multi generational, long-term conductor used by politics. I have found nobody putting so many of the large topics together under one umbrella as Peter Zeihan and very few people grasp the scale of these issues or how they all are interplaying. It is very unrealistic to think there is any chance of solving these global scale problems by approaching them from a multi vector front without serious coordination via an ecological strategy. If you know of another source that puts all this info together in a format that the masses can comprehend and make use of (not that they actually will), please let me know because I am truly appreciative of this information. Peace and take care

[@davidlemaire360]

This interview whas so well made, i m french but i lisen all this in english, an even i i alrady know jean marc Jancovici, it s give me an buge amount off Hope about thé internationalisation of thé solutions...

[@djudju8047]

Great discussion.

[@FAS1948]

I became aware of the problem while studying oceanography more than 40 years ago, and I have waited ever since then for world leaders to act on the evidence. I am still waiting and we're running out of time.

[@beatreuteler]

The great error is waiting. Acting is the right choice.

[@georgeshepherd3381]

Systems thinking is so important!

[@11jomjom]

As a French speaker, I started my learning journey with Jancovici. He has some great points. Great to see that he appeared on your show (which I really appreciate). I recommend you to interview Jean Baptiste Fressoz (less known). He is a historian and I believe he has great points on the history of energy and on the complexity and interconnections of our world.

[@Norway-hf5zn]

Thank you for this interesting exchange 🤩