The Haves & The Have-Nots | Frankly #53

[@anthonytroia1]

Regarding the "dark triad": My business partner and I were recently invited to a meet-up with local entrepreneurs (she and I produce and distribute green tea). While conversing with one of the other business people I explained that I only want to develop a tea industry in our bioregion if we do it beautifully, regeneratively. It surfaced during the conversation that I am not concerned with wealth. I could see in the dude's face that he had no way of accessing what I was trying to convey. Some people just aren't emotionally equipped to understand the web of life. If we fail to navigate this uncomfortable reality, we're doomed.

[@antonyjh1234]

"a region defined by characteristics of the natural environment rather than by man-made divisions." What does a bio region have to do with the profit?

[@brianwheeldon4643]

We come across people who are socially equipped to focus entirely on money,the wealth of land and other assets. Many of my ex inlaws are so equipped. It's a growing percentage of western economies. NZ is substantially focused on this. Lots of friendly laid back people but on the surface only. Visitors for a short term probably don't understand this aspect.

[@anthonytroia1]

Could you rephrase the question? I'm not sure what you're asking. @@antonyjh1234

[@reuireuiop0]

Could comment on that quietly misunderstood Kiwi character, but having stayed only 8 months in another centry, I can only say that in hindsight I recognize a bit of that. Reminds a bit of Belgium or some of them laid back down to earth country folks far from metro n areas. My step family is entrepreneur by heart, while mine is more the community supporting. They're more country, mine is towns folk. To them, making money, _is_ supporting their web of life. Family values oddly (but not quite so odd if you take time valuing it) are stronger amongst the "steps" than "mine". Guess it just depends.. Lately in elections, the big party became radical right Wilders "Freedom Party" , which claims to be all for Dutch community, but other values , will have to go (or perhaps will be tolerated, 17C style, when they keep understated & under cover) Don't think there's much real community in that, and that feels oddly un-Dutch

[@patrickkelly1195]

Thanks Nate. Interesting Frankly. I must say, you're right about France. Having moved to rural France just recently from the UK to build myself a 'lifeboat' on a small plot of land, I have been incredibly impressed at the way in which relatively poor rural folk (most of whom work in agriculture and are poorly paid) manage to lead such rich lives with such little money. They are so incredibly resilient; the sharing of skills is common, many local grow their own veg or keep poultry and share their harvests and the elderly are very well looked after by the community. It has been really eye opening for a Brit who has grown accustomed to what I can only describe as the 'americanisation' of the UK. I was born in the 60s and can recall a very different Britain to the one we see today, but our politicians always seemed intent on following the lead of the USA as opposed to the nordic nations, France and the Netherlands who seem to get so much right. I'm somewhat envious of the way Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Netherlands and Finland in particular, always seem to top the WHO human welfare and wellbeing rankings. It's no wonder trust in government is so high in such countries.

[@richardkut3976]

Hello, Tough on the USA, I understand. But it's more than you described. Take care,

[@celinebourbotte4054]

Where in France ? I m in a rural region too and i feel surrounded by People who seem to be not questionning the world, and not "concerned"

[@THEROOTMATTERS]

LOVE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THESE AREAS OF SKILL AND RESILIENCE WHO ARE ARTISANS, WHO SHARE THEIR RICHES OF ART.

[@tuckerbugeater]

you're invasive@@celinebourbotte4054

[@MrPaddy924]

@@celinebourbotte4054 Charente Maritime

[@blindpuppy7786]

Great work, Nate. Yours has become my go-to podcast, despite the often heavy subject matter. Great guests, thought-provoking questions and your open mind make it a fascinating listen every time. You are appreciated!

[@robertpedersen6831]

But the nordics isnt sustainable. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/hH6Uh31uiNyGq68&pp=ygUTamFzcG4gaGlja2VsIG5vcmRpYw%3D%3D

[@PiaBros]

You said it for me as well, thank you and yes, thank you Nate for such informative podcasts. Definitely my go to podcast.

[@jeff__w]

2:58 “Even if someone is monetarily poor, they could be socially rich.” _On some evenings, our home looks like a magazine. We have a whole lamb on a rotisserie. There's an Iberico ham. My wife is slicing it for guests. I'm sitting in the living room, pretending to text the nanny, but, really, I'm tweeting about how awful it is that, in America in 2014, one of five people goes hungry. I go to bed that night and I can't sleep because I'm imagining how our lives would be different if I hadn’t gotten very lucky._ _I’m on a TV shoot in Madagascar on the southwestern coast with Sakalava tribespeople. Every morning their canoes head out 25 miles into the ocean in search of fish, and I go one morning with Jama. He has nine kids, and he fishes every day for 12 hours-or 36 if he doesn't catch anything._ _He owns two shirts and a rusty piece of metal that he uses as a knife. If he doesn’t catch anything, he and his family don't eat. He trades the fish in the local market, and he keeps the organs and the bones for soups and food for his family. They live in small huts that blow down once a month in big storms. He's always smiling._ _After a day at sea with him, he invites us to his home while apologizing that he can't feed us. Still, his wife is a proud hostess and she begins digging in the sand. She pulls out a small container that contains five-year-old instant coffee that has turned beige. She boils the coffee, takes her dress and wipes out some small, cracked bowls. She passes the nearly flavorless cloudy liquid to me and my crew, and Jama is beaming at her._ _I see my crew start to demur. I shoot them The Look. The look that tells them to drink that coffee and_ love every drop of it. _The look that says it is better to be a good guest than an honest one. The look is all about my own shame. We all drink the coffee, and then later we share_ our _food with Jama and his family only after we have first shared_ their _offering. I buy all of Jama's fish. I give him a knife. I ask him if he's happy. He laughs at me._ _Later that night, he sticks his head in my tent to say goodnight. He apologizes for laughing at me and says white people are crazy. He doesn't understand them at all, but he likes me. Then he tells me very quietly, man to man, that he hopes, someday, I can find the happiness he has._ -Andrew Zimmern, “Sweet, Salty, Bitter, Sour: The Emotional Life of Eating,” Francis Lam | Southern Foodways Alliance, 2014 Fall Symposium

[@john1boggity56]

Beautiful post !!!! Thank you so much for sharing.

[@jeff__w]

@@john1boggity56 Thank you! That's a lovely response! ☺️

[@robinschaufler444]

Thank you. I needed to hear that.

[@jeff__w]

@@robinschaufler444 You're welcome! I thought it might be too long for people to read but it’s a good anecdote, I think.

[@radscorpion8]

​@@jeff__w The whole affair seem mildly disturbing. Here we have people who are on the brink of starvation, they don't have a real house, no real education...no prospects...he just fishes for life. And he's happy with that? Why? Isn't that a sign that something has gone deeply wrong? Like how can you go fishing for 36 hours praying you catch enough fish to feed your family and come back *HAPPY*?? It makes no sense. These people are deeply disturbed. I'm sorry but what other conclusion can you draw. They have found some way to cope with life and maybe it brings them joy but its all deeply wrong

[@marxxthespot]

Great reflection! Thank you 🙏🌞 This definitely changed my mind set. I’ve worked on the front lines of extreme poverty in America for 30 years (currently serving the homeless in the feudal City State of Los Angeles) and am very aware that we have become a society of “haves and have nots” and even use that term a lot myself. What this video made me realize is the only people I see reading books anymore are homeless individuals… and in MANY ways THEY ARE HAVES! That is a great and very legit insight and this video just gave me something I totally wasn’t expecting… a morale boost 🙏🌞🤝🌞🙏

[@sociocyberneering]

Keep going Nate

[@maddogwillie1019]

Oh BTW...I take a 3 hour road trip every other weekend. And the only way I get through it is by listening to your videos. I have learned a lot and use what I've learn to improve my understanding of "How we got to where we are"...I hope you doing well on your time off. Thanks for what you're doing...tell the chicken I said hi

[@brandonreid7528]

beautiful words from the brain of Hagens. we are blessed to have your brain, your soul, both having the ability to get out meaningful words for our society. there are many smart silent people. i wish we could hear them all.

[@David-l4p7d]

The rise of leaders and individuals who benefit and are incentivized to use misinformation and disinformation is destroying the hope for compromise, solidarity, and even conversation within families and communities. We are now mourning the loss of these social connections.

[@kvaka009]

Yes, but why do these leaders with these traits rise to positions of power? The socio-economic system, underpinned by hyper-individualistic anti-social ideology, creates and necessitates this outcome.

[@tuckerbugeater]

go away stalin@@kvaka009

[@alexanderleuchte5132]

Small correction: The "Dark Triad" means having the personality traits Machiavellianism, Narcissism and Psychopathy on a SUBCLINICAL level. This detail is often missing in descriptions of this construct. The system selects for the executives that will further it's interests without scrupel, so people whose self interests allign with it and who have no empathy rise to positions of power

[@markarchambault4783]

Much in evidence today, as it was in the 1930s and 40s.

[@john1boggity56]

Spot on. To test the idea, if you remove a psychopath from a corporate leadership position, the system selects a replacement with same traits. Michel Foucault wrote a lot about this.

[@dustibecker4233]

Fantastic commentary. I find everyday to be a meaningful gift, but getting old is a challenge. Happy 2024!

[@Krautastic]

The dark triad conversation is such a good piece many fail to incorporate into their visions of the future. Even if we somehow created utopia, you will have people who want power or chaos (recognizing not all people in this category are like this). You'll have alot of people who have past traumas which might affect their behavior or trust in such a system. Communal systems must be resilient to these things which can undermine the whole thing. You're also correct that those entrepreneur/ceo types that are in the triad are the type of people we need on board to push solutions into the broader marketplace (both economic marketplace and marketplace of ideas).

[@hhjhj393]

Easiest answer is AI or genetic engineering. Humans in current form aren't good enough IMO. If you want to change things change humans. Right now humans are the only creatures with this level of intelligence, what if humans had competition?

[@redrockcrf4663]

Glad that you highlighted the Mean vs median income. As much as other measures may be important, I feel there is a denial of the experience of vast numbers of people in the global north - the "wealthy" countries. I'm in a different country, but here the working below median people basically do not each fresh fruit and veg. They are economically constrained, and to meet their costs of living it requires them to buy the cheapest food possible. So in interviews before the last election, you had many of that class saying they cannot and do not buy fresh fruit, and almost no fresh vegetables. Can't afford it. Let that sink in....

[@casamurphy]

Good job Mr Hagens

[@Miquelodeon87]

You're telling the story that is really worth telling, Nate. Keep doing that, please.

[@jeffheiner]

Thanks Nate! I love your channel and am glad someone else sees the long view. You've helped me see the actual causes and create a framework to conceive it in... the great simplification. I came to the same conclusion, but from the perspective of trying to understand why families are getting smaller and smaller and now collapsing completely in the US.

[@fenixgirl9]

a lot of good points made.

[@drillerdev4624]

Although it may sound a bit of a tangential topic, I'd love to see an episode about social activities. In capitalism, must fun time is tied to money spending, but I've seen a resurgence of other activities lately that doesn't necessarily mean spending, rely on social interaction without seeking personal gain, and/or use public spaces or private ones we already own, without the need to go to a mall, a club, or the like. On one hand, I see a lot more people meeting in groups in public parks or outdoor activities in general (for example, dance groups loosely organized and non-profit). Or home gatherings for boardgame or roleplay activities, in which you CAN spend a lot, but you certainly don't NEED to. Lacking proper public mental healthcare, this kind of activities sound invaluable to me, and will be a great asset in a near future in which we may be forced to downsize.

[@ideafood4U]

Your Frankly's are all awesome.

[@martinleepgg]

Just stumbled across you Nate, thanks for a thought-provoking discourse. Plenty to ponder on.

[@sparkybob1023]

PS. Love what you are trying to do here. Thank you, very much.

[@JonathanLoganPDX]

Another excellent and deeply introspective piece thank you nate! Keep it rolling exclamation point you influence us and we influence others and the wavefront moves out across the lands!

[@vtfollett]

Boy, 'cultural shallows', that says a lot about our jangled consumerist lie-swallowing society. Every time I hear someone say, "That isn't who we are," I want to scream, "That obviously and inarguably IS who we are."

[@rettro6578]

💯💯💯

[@FREEAGAIN432]

Beautifully laid out and nuanced view of haves and have-nots.. Thank you Nate.

[@whattodoinanemergency1203]

I don't have much money but I have zero debt and all the time in the world and my basic needs are meet I feel very. Very fortunate

[@treefrog3349]

I am genuinely happy for you.But there are millions who unnecessarily lack your equanimity.

[@karenkoerner6015]

You are indeed fortunate.

[@clairbear1234]

@@treefrog3349 so should he not be grateful?? celebrating one’s fortune, is actually extremely important. Those who can’t recognize their fortune, are the ones destroying the planet, most by having an insatiable appetite for more and feeling grateful for your circumstances is not mutually exclusive to contributing to your community.

[@j85grim4]

You want a cookie 🍪 ?

[@antonyjh1234]

And when you get to this stage, you find the costs aren't that high. If we could do away with people having to buy houses, if we could supply food and medical care we could do that for everybody far cheaper and with far less emissions than what we do now.

[@steveobst7164]

I've been watching your presentations for a few months now. You are on the right track by publicizing information. Humanity will take it's course and times will be hard. Our efforts should be focused on self sufficiency on a micro scale. Communities that depend little on macroeconomic systems will fair better in a downturn of goods and services. Grassroots efforts toward this end are already in place. Building processes to bring like minded people will accelerate the timeline to self sufficiency.

[@barnabyvonrudal1]

Good list! I like the images/graphics in the video also

[@vtfollett]

In a drive from my small Vermont town to a "small" town in Rhode Island, where my daughter and family live, I travelled between two relatively clean, safe, attractive neighborhoods. But the ugliness in between, the scores of miles of stroads, lined by ugly commercial development accessible only by car, left me depressed for days afterwards.

[@richardkut3976]

Good one, thanks.

[@nancyravenel915]

This site makes my blood pressure happy ❤such interesting and timely information! Thank you.

[@ScarletKnightmare]

I've never thought of my blood pressure that way, but I like it

[@renke69]

Another great Frankly ✊🏼

[@nancypulley]

Nice snowy morning for fruit smoothie & Nate’s message - Thank you for you work - esp the visuals 😵‍💫you add in ‼️ Indeed appreciate you pointing out all the ways we “HAVE” to start each day

[@fabienjoly7543]

Thank you for what you do!

[@mapfeu]

I enjoy your rather important line of thoughtsllll

[@davidpetzer5725]

Thanks Nate , well put together !!

[@milannemecek9198]

Thanks for the work you are doing. I have learned so much since I stumbled across your channel.

[@bethforencich623]

I listen to the long form videos while cooking dinner. Might have to take up knitting again. Thought a lot about the Great Simplification while we lost power in 20 degree temps this week in the Northwest.

[@lisawilliamson5012]

Profound. You really got me thinking - in an inspiring way. I'll be back for more.

[@fufurabumbacka]

Doctor Dan,

[@Changeworld408]

Great condenced valuable synthesis. I love yr analysis ❤i feel yr pain for the lack of deep connexion. I live in Belgium and have and will go skiing in French Alps next month. My colleague is a music teacher young woman from Marseille, but she seems happier here in Belgium then her Marseille homecity❤

[@mosaadghoneim2117]

Thank you from Cairo Egypt, where who have not live😊

[@robinschaufler444]

Conversation in my Transition Town book club today - can we heal the division between us little people and them, the rich and powerful? Can we show them compassion? My response: Money is a drug you can overdose on. The dark triad economic monsters are addicts. Nate, you saw it when you worked in finance, the subhumans for whom there is no such thing as "enough". Some google searches indicate that the diagnosis system is deficient, that the diversity of combinations of traits is bewildering, and that various therapies sometimes make progress with some but not others. Sometimes these traits are accompanied by trauma, anxiety, sensitivity to anger, cynicism, and cognitive inflexibility, but there is no conclusive evidence of causality. There seems to be a high level of heritability. I hope you can find an expert on this topic to have on your show. It would also be useful to talk about why the rest of us are so susceptible to these peoples' cons. It seems like they are capable of infecting entire societies with mass psychosis.

[@haldanebdoyle]

Great piece and reflects a lot of what I have been thinking about lately. If financial wealth was distributed evenly it would stimulate a massive increase in the rate of consumption of non-renewable resources. A moderate level of monetary poverty can motivate us to generate all the other forms of wealth that you listed in this video.

[@timeenoughforart]

i was commenting about how the US has changed in the last 40 years. Homelessness was rare. Now we are facing multigenerational homelessness. Kids raised in the street where addiction and mental illness are rampant. We don't let our kids walk outside. Every kid has a bike, we just don't allow them to ride in the road. The militarization of the police is crazy. Every citizen is assumed to be a threat. It takes 20 cops carrying AR15's and a friggin tank to take down a 14 year old boy. In my own family I've watched the inheritance between generations cut in half. It started with medical expenses, then broken families, now outrageous home prices and student loans. I have watched my retirement disappear four different times till I've reached the golden zone where I can qualify for food stamps and Medicaid because it has all been stripped away. We can't really on that top few percent. They are even worse victims of the system then we are. Confusing money with purpose is insane. I've seen too many in the construction business working 80 hour weeks, going deep into debt, buying the big house with all the toys only to lose it to addiction, divorce, or our once a decade recession. Same story for farmers. Those that have survived and thrived are horrible people. Horrible people we put on a pedestal as if they are our remodels. Crash and burn is my hope. We will burn a lot less carbon. Hopefully we will find community again. Actually I know we will.

[@WW_SHTFF_WW]

Neighbor told me about one of her relatives. A rich gal in her early 60's. Married to a rich guy. She has 4 homes. Lakeside, Florida, Carolinas and 1 in Europe. When she travels, she rents a boat for a couple weeks for $60k to island hop the Greek Islands. Her biggest problem is which home she will go to next. But she had both tits cut off due to cancer, she almost died from a heart attack and has bladder cancer issues. Point is...$ only goes so far. It is the same thing with smarts. Academic smarts are not the same as peace smarts...as in inner peace. Moral of the story is this... One thing only goes so far with living a good life. It takes balance.

[@aaronrelyea1098]

❤ love your channel so much 🎉

[@astrologerclimatewitness3787]

I don't " sit" through any of the podcasts I watch ..or ...even a Netflix or Hulu movie ..I either listen/ watch while cleaning .like washing dishes...folding clothes....sweeping , mopping or .yes .weeding or planting my garden..OR working out ..in the house,or while out walking...works out ..GREAT!!

[@mpetry912]

very interesting insight, thank you Nate !

[@staudingerk]

So agree ❤

[@TruthSayer5589]

The whole narrative around where we (the universe) comes from, how we got here, why we’re here and what are our responsibilities to ourselves and others, inclusive of the latest scientific research, and in conjunction with employing a kind of scientific methodology of validation, applied to spiritual (energetic experiences) needs to be articulated. This would give the whole of humanity purpose.

[@publicdomain1103]

Nate, you certainly have "it". More power to you and your project. ShakeUp XR

[@cdineaglecollapsecenter4672]

I really liked this Frankly. A couple comments: The fact? that most of the people at the top are dark triad personalities makes the strategy of changing their minds about how they should operate vis-a-vis the superorganism so problematic that it might not really be worth doing. I suppose you could try to identify "top" actors who are actually pro-social, but that might be difficult. Also, I have always wondered this about the marshmallow test: does it measure self control or does it measure trust in the experimenter who promised to give the kid 2 marshmallows if they wait 15 minutes to eat?

[@Corrie-fd9ww]

It’s true and a good question- how to appeal to people who seem to be content being malignantly personality disordered. I’ve seen the idea floated before that psychedelics can help; a direct experience of oneness, love, etc, but I’ve also seen how this can just lead to more ego trips, more buying and selling. The medicines can’t do the work for people, like any old wisdom they just point the way. I do know that now and then, someone who is maybe not a total psychopath but has those traits, can have such a terrifying (like near death or spiritual death) experience and stop being a douchebag. It’s rare though and with the personal transformation and spiritual marketplace being what it is, pretty tough to integrate a peak experience or epiphany unless someone goes semi off grid and immerses in another way of being and living.

[@magneticpitch]

exactly. "The System" has been created, shaped and run by the Dark Triad for centuries. I've tried to console myself over the years by thinking the Triad % is more like 5%. I fear the only way to convince these people to do something unselfish/democratic/socially beneficial, is to offer them more power and more money. Yeah, the same thing they already have way too much of. I'm hopeful because the great majority of people are good (albeit a little scared & desperate). But there is a reason that torches & pitchforks & revolutions exist. Will the good folk ever use them? "everything" about this country (USA) is designed to subjugate and placate the populace- we're constantly bombarded with shiny objects & Triad talking points. But i have deep respect for you & this channel and the good people that you introduce to the world almost daily.

[@RickLarsonPermacultureDesigner]

Well, since those well endowed would not dare to ask my advice I'll just post the short form here. Buy agricultural land, on a praise system the land that required the most chemicals to produce a crop, those purchases receives the most praise. Let it go wild and begin parceling small holdings out to those who want to be natural. Since I've participated in a PDC, I would highly recommend trending towards those types that have the basic knowledge. The land will in time produce more and more nutritious food if the right marketing and program is implemented. True, I haven't read a book for awhile but I do garden beds and do listen to podcasts if my interest is high.

[@RickLarsonPermacultureDesigner]

One idea is to be paid in food, you'll have plenty for family and friends. And if one really wants to kick off a program, pay for the food. It'll be coming out of your ears. Hahaha!

[@RickLarsonPermacultureDesigner]

Oh, and I don't own or use a smart phone. Maybe that's why I can work for hours in the garden and get something done. So get rid of it and start studying which land to buy. Start now.

[@Corrie-fd9ww]

Healthy land is the source of true wealth, in many ways. Physical health and therefore wealth, mental health, social connections beyond just other humans, sense of purpose, skills building, the list goes on. Regenerating land covers so many bases and naturally resolves many ingrained issues. Those powerful people at the top that Nate mentions- the ones that aren’t total psychos anyway, if they were really with the land (hands in the soil) and seeing their positive impact there, well. It would be a big deal.

[@RickLarsonPermacultureDesigner]

@@Corrie-fd9ww Thank you for this broadening insight.

[@Corrie-fd9ww]

@RickLarsonPermacultureDesigner. I really appreciate when I see your comments bc it’s still a somewhat rare thing for ppl to connect our predicament (or poly-crisis) with relationships with and to the land. Imo it’s at the core of all of this- peoples relationship with earth. I guess I’m kinda evangelical about it now but most of my personal problems (my own personal overshoot and collapse) have been either solved or alleviated by being with and working with the land.

[@saskwatch123]

Thank you Nate for this....

[@barz-kf9qi]

I live in Marseille... I'm going to wave at everyone, in the hope of waving at Nate's friends.

[@AntonOfTheWoods]

I don't live in Marseille but have certainly read about the issues and talked with a few people. I'm not sure everywhere in Marseille is quite so rosy... Given there are slums where the police are afraid to go and druglords with machine guns run the show, I'm picking the daily salutations are restricted to the gauche caviar... And let's not forget Marseille is a stronghold of the Front National... And you say hi when you get in a lift even in Paris... It's a big place, surrounded by a lot of intolerance and racism... So YMMV

[@barz-kf9qi]

@@AntonOfTheWoods Life certainly isn't rosy. There are lots of poor people all around, and more to come, with probable impact on racism. But I've been in the US of A, and the social fabric seems a bit tighter-knit on this side of the pond, is all.

[@Pocket_Champs2023]

MY POVERTY: (bad)0 - 10 (good) Financially: 0 Spirituality: 10 Communal: 0 Social: 1 Healthcare: 0 Friendships: 1 Housing: 0 Education: 8 Philosophy: 33

[@john1boggity56]

Great post!!! I'm thinking about using your approach to assess my own poverty now

[@likesgymnastics5767]

light triad, with the ability to change my community for the better reporting in

[@thepolycerateblacksheep]

thanks for pointing out the dark triad

[@davidmorton8332]

From a UK perspective I think the deep pockets of poverty we are developing ( which since 1945 the ' welfare state ' had erradicated ) is because people are now poor on all the metrics. Some financially poor people are now also network and skills poor. All sorts of reasons for that but the decline of trade unions, organised religion and social housing are the main ones. Or more accurately the decline of those with no replacement institutions taking their place.

[@andrewbogle3350]

I think organised religion is one of the main causes of social problems. You just have to look at the religious right in America in particular to see the damage it has done - especially on the political front. If people are raised to consume delusional fictions like resurrection, an all-powerful deity, miracles, demons and angels, life after death, the efficacy of prayer etc. then their ability to think rationally may be permanently atrophied or at least inhibited. It’s actually a form of child abuse to raise kids with such indoctrination. It’s actually brain-washing. Sure there is a social aspect of getting together in a church, mosque, temple or synagogue and feeling shared thoughts and music, but there is also the danger of individuality being subsumed by collective unity that erodes personal responsibility. People become sheeple. And it’s easy to manipulate people once they become unthinking sheeple.

[@martinacusack9867]

Always like listening but have to say I realy liked the split screen edit today

[@kmagee6286]

Great episode. I keep hearing AGI enthusiasts saying that the future will be approach great abundance, no longer scarcities. While I have heard you talking about material shortages. Seems like these 2 major trends are going to collide?

[@DeGudeMo]

Great as always, Nate. I think one category should be added that has a great influence on many of the others: the degree to which one has control over his or her own time. I just read David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs", and it was a real eye-opener on that topic ❤

[@mellonglass]

It’s been said throughout history with different words and phrases , ‘Live among those you wish to help’.

[@wailinburnin]

Excuse me, please clarify, I believe the $60K figure is Household Income, not per capita, I'm pretty sure that's what that figure is all about.

[@treefrog3349]

"A pro-social, benevolent to society outlook" you wisely beckoned. Does that sound AT ALL like our current economic and governmental paradigm? I whole-heartedly agree with the premise while I gag on the reality. To say one thing and do the opposite, like so much of our top-down governmental rhetoric, is pathological. Is it any wonder that America is suffering from the cognitive dissonance that surrounds them in their daily lives?

[@rettro6578]

Our top down corporate governmental rhetoric not just governmental.

[@FindingFI]

Thank you for talking about dark triad which is HUGELY underestimated. I wish it were possible to see an accurate measure of triad prevalence over human history. Including whether it’s increasing in prevalence. They’ve probably been the primary drivers of collapse. And I don’t think they’ll take to being pro-social at an adequate scale, though perhaps it’s a worthy pursuit. A non-human entity that doesn’t fall for all the tactics would have to enforce boundaries on them or engineer that trait out of the population.

[@wvhaugen]

Nate is still in the analysis phase and his proto-solution is to try and influence the power brokers in government, academia and corporations. I don't see that working. Raworth's work with local mayors and Zeta's work teaching people how to farm are better alternatives. I have been a have-not nearly all of my life. Now I am relatively comfortable in my retirement, but I am still working on solutions. The latest work is taking the whole solution dynamic up to the next level. The idea is simple. YOU know your situation better than anyone, so YOU are going to have to devise your own solutions and then act on them. These solutions include adaptation - even some discomfort and suffering. In order to devise your own solutions, you need a cohesive mental framework. My suggestion is to use paradigms to change your mental map. My latest book is how to do this. It is called Paradigms for Adaptation.

[@chriszablocki2460]

I'll just keep my soul and not really worry about what other people have or don't.

[@crisismanagement]

Understanding peak oil was a big change.

[@GnomeInPlaid]

Michael Ruppert's movie "Collapse" was a real eye opener.

[@pacificatoris9307]

Hoping your retreat is going well. I suppose, if I were to go overboard on reductionist approach, the present value of future net income in terms of calories or Joules. The discount factors including all kinds of risks, like health, community cohesion, etc. in the end, if the net income is below the absolute requirement for survival, there is a need for some form of adaptation.

[@wbiro]

A future question will be how much do you need to contribute to Broader Survival? The answer is 'not much'. The main thing that everyone needs is the realization. Things will work themselves out from there.

[@alexwelts2553]

Hmm, I was born in New Jersey in 1980, mom didn't have a reliable vehicle until I was adult. Water was undrinkable and often had no heat or hot sulfur water for lack of oil. Working since I was 14, never made more than legal taxation requirements. 8,500 a year. I'm 44 now. Id rather have nothing and no one than participate in this system that tells you it's not dismantling you before your eyes. I renovated a tiny RV, no plumbing, extension cord for basic power. It's not preferable, I have not the desire to exist as it stands.

[@DoubtfireClubWGPowers]

I gave this episode six thumbs up even though I know it doesn't work that way

[@peterclark2374]

Good job, Nate! Lots to chew on in there. Did I hear you say that you are a Have Not in the capacity to listen to a 90 minute long form podcast?! How, then, can yiu and team create them?! Or longer ones?! What am I missing?!

[@thegreatsimplification]

I can record them - because doing that, to me is not a podcast, it's a conversation with a real person. I don't watch or listen to them (tbh I have yet to EVER relisten to one of my podcasts, though I really should because I'd probably retain it). Edit: I did relisten to one w Daniel as prep for the following one

[@peterclark2374]

Thanks for the kindness of your reply. Doh! I did not think of the obvious! Of course one keeps engaged when one is in dialog! My bad! Keep up your good work!

[@reuireuiop0]

That's striking you mention Amsterdam as one of the anonymous metro cities. Marseille you say, had more of a community feel as opposed to Paris. Now of course, there's this thing that in Western countries, the local Big Apple is mostly disliked in the rest of the country. Not many in the UK really like London, Paris has a bad rep even outside France. I've heard similar about Auckland and Sydney among their respective nationals. Berlin so far is an exception, but that was a locale of freedom, where a man was not required toe serve in the army, by purpose of living in a city surrounded by enemy territory. So far it's kept a bit of this stamp of freedom. Like Marseille, Dutch major port Rotterdam, _so far_ retains more community feel ( tho but everyone from the surrounds will agree .. ) When Rotterdam soccer team Feyenoord won the championship, all the country, even some from Amsterdam , wanted them to have it. When the Amsterdam side Ajax wins, it's those arrogant show offs taking the cup again. When Ajax lost to an amateur team last cup, it was applauded all around the nation. Still love living in Amsterdam, thank you. But I'm not going to undervalue that both my Grandpas grew up in Rotterdam :)

[@LoriLafferty]

you aint lying

[@weltraumaffe4155]

Lots of $ here where I live. Not me so much. But money isn't my greatest concern, for now at least. Very little community. When ever I hear the word "community" I think of the "Black Community" first. I enjoy long format intellectually stimulating interviews or discussions that don't permit hysterical talking-over one another, and lectures and taking free courses. I don't know anyone with whom I can share these things.

[@Pocket_Champs2023]

I am the complete opposite of Dark Triad. I am a Light Triad.

[@HakWilliams]

I have food, shelter, A/C, entertainment, savings. I'm retired at 58.

[@vivalaleta]

slow.........clap

[@cemotazca8628]

Makes me think of what Alan Watts has to say on Money and Skill.

[@john1boggity56]

Great point!!! I think we know...

[@WW_SHTFF_WW]

In the 1960's we had a hippy / Buddhist / dope lecturer named Alan Watts. He would say people define themselves by their enemy. He used the 'beatnik' vs 'squares' as an example. Nowadays we got the hipster and non-hipster, millennials vs boomers, dem vs reps and on and on. In the 1960's the 2 parties were very similar in core beliefs. Both parties believed in traditional American values. And if the average person was polled they may simplify the 2 parties thusly: Dems were for the poor people. Reps were for the rich and big business. The reason we didn't have a soft civil war going on in the days of kinder and gentler politics was the fact that both parties were not that far apart in core values. Both parties believed baby murder was wrong, both parties were for the 2A and the rights to bear arms, both parties were for strong borders, both parties were against homosexuality and that 2 hairy men could be husband and wife, both parties didn’t believe an illegal alien was an American citizen, both parties were against legalized dope, both parties were centered around religious beliefs, traditional American values and morals, both parties were against socialism and communism, both parties didn't believe that a man with a penis was a woman. Well, we can see what has happened over the years. The reps have stayed more or less the same…long standing conservative traditional American values. The dems on the other hand have become wildly extreme with their beliefs. Beliefs so far off the scale of left that they will destroy America as we have known it if they are implemented.

[@chrisruss9861]

He wrote good books, elegantly expressed. I found a few of his talks on KZbin recently. He did write an unforgettable line that resonates. 'There is something at the back of our minds that gives us the screaming meemies.' With that I concur.

[@brianhollenbeck2584]

I completely agree it's interesting the super wealthy although they may have monetary wealth and assets they have shallow superficial relationships none of these people truly have a real friend

[@bumblebee9337]

Transformative change occurs one obituary at a time.

[@monkeyfist.348]

Ohhh, you hit upon a topic that may need a bit of expansion. The dark triad squad, which accounts for ten or more people per one hundred. As we know, they represent a high percentage of those that lead companies(CEO's). Which are typically higher IQ positions. We could say they represent a higher proportion of the population with higher IQ's. We might consider that 'dark triad' folks are also poorly represented in lower IQ populations. All that being said, we see these folks often in positions where hard choices have to be made, like being Generals in the Army etc.. They do well in those situations where high morals or empathy are hindrances. I am pointing this all out because it seems clear that we struggle to move forward without them. Easily, we can say we often move 'too fast and loose' because of their decisions. We get ahead of ourselves as a species because they don’t value things the same way. Which is why we have the global warming issues we have. They don’t care about humanity or the planet full of other life. We inherited a system the dark triad had way too much influence over. We benefited in enough ways there was little to no resistance. But now, we must unseat them from their positions or impose restrictions and laws that create guard rails they can't get over. We still need them to unite with us, as Team Human must be a unified and all-inclusive structure. Given clear choices, I think they are pragmatic enough to make the right decision. The moment requires that humans mature out of our collective teenage years. Become responsible for our future and the future of all life on earth. We must create opportunities for life as a changing habitat works against us. And everything we care about is on the line. The dark triad stands between us and a reasonable outcome. It is coming down to years, this year... could be the year all future years feel the weight of. The decisions made having massive implications on a global scale. Living in exciting times is super stress filled and hard to navagate. Glad you are on it Nate! Helping folks find a path through is such an important job. Keep swinging wide on your bushwacking journey🍀

[@OldJackWolf]

I know a lot of rich people, and the ones I know best are either miserable or delusional. Or both.

[@practicallyprepared9389]

I got alt out of this. Thank you.

[@crisismanagement]

You're one of the fortunate ones.

[@carriefisher2644]

I wonder if the dark triad people can be shown that no one is an island and it will be better for them and theirs to cooperate in steering the metacrisis away from the cliff?

[@barrycarter8276]

Jesus said, “The poor you will always have with you” (Matthew 26:11). Can trace my heritage back to Vikings (Father's side) and Celts (Mother’s side), spent 13 of my formative years with my parents in Lagos Nigeria, it was a very happy time. Lived in a large house with around a 2 acre compound situated on Ikoyi Island, we had a nurse/childminder, steward, cook and gardener, their accommodation was in a block of rooms in the compound. They had no children with them.There was a village at the end of the road, it had around 11 mud huts arranged in a circle with a very small a juju hut in the centre.There were quite a few children in the village, spent a lot of time with these black native children, myself being the only white european child living near them. I spent a lot of time playing and eating with them, much to the annoyance of my parents. Looking back these African children were literally dirt poor but happy, we never talked about wealth or status, just played, and we had sun, sea and miles of sandy beaches on our doorstep🤔

[@staudingerk]

Yeah, I absolutely looove long videos, even two hour ones. But most of the time I do something in the meantime, like crafting for my small business. I feel like electronics kinda changed my brain in a certain way that is not healthy or desirable in any way.

[@geiramk]

Sorry for approaching from the shallow end of the pool, but I was watching and waiting for an explanation of the beanie.

[@robertpaulson6388]

He keeps it pretty cool in his house / studio to conserve energy. He has mentioned it in other podcasts.

[@briansprung]

I can’t blame the people that don’t have to leave their house because the world is indeed so depressing and two sets of classes. Those of us not that lucky enough though do witness and experience first hand the atrocities and “2 classes” in the world which basically is those in the “analog world/real world” and those in the digital world/counterfeit world” who are out of touch with reality.

[@Deep_Sorcery]

I have a friend in Marseille too.

[@staudingerk]

Can you please have Schmachtenberger on your channel again.

[@maddogwillie1019]

Damn Nate will be people around 100 years from now?

[@evilryutaropro]

I feel like ancient civilizations making eunuch bureaucracies makes a bit of sense when you consider the dark triad

[@fracta1organism]

first, many of the have conditions like physical and mental health or having a voice in things are a direct function of having money. second, the out-sized influence of the dark triad within the political and economic institutions of society can be partially addressed by a psychedelic therapy mandate at high dose for all political candidates. read more about it in the essay "why solving the meta-crisis is simple" by joe corbett.

[@brianhawes3115]

The clever monkey has found a corner that is hard to escape from 😂

[@joehass86]

Henry Ford, Walter Chrysler and Billy Durant the founder of General Motors would probably all qualify for this dark Triad evaluation I wonder where we would be without them and the many others like them

[@diva555sg]

Have heard of the dark trinity but not the dark triad. Heard of the 2 groups in the dark triad but not aware of mechiavellian.