The digital output of WiiM streamers

[@briantooze3415]

For a low price Wiim makes a good product. I upgraded my mini to the pro version and noticed a difference. Hopefully the next iteration will be better again.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Totally agree!

[@RamisDad]

Tried the Wiim pro plus and returned it since the Wiim ultra was announced, curious to hear if the digital streaming output is improved compared to the pro plus

[@chocholatemilkshake4799]

And ?

[@randyhelou5412]

I run my setup using a Wiim Pro as a streamer (Oppo Sonica Oppo HA1 2xBenchmark ahb2 bridged and Harbeth SHL5 Plus) and have done so from being convinced that a digital signal is just that, a digital signal. Your video has given me food for thought and I’ll be doing further research to see whether or not I can benefit from a better streamer. Thank you as ever for a great video Hans.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

👍🏼

[@noturnleftunstoned72]

There couldn't be a more timely subject. This video will help a lot of people, including I. Great stuff! Btw, thank you for the NADITBNC-FX AES/EBU to SPDIF converter link. It saved me.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@katakitz]

Thank you, Hans! You made me think deeper about the importance of streamer quality. We, the Wiim fans, can’t wait to listen to the new Wiim Ultra, which should be launched in less than 3 months. It seems it will have a better DAC, a touch display, an USB and also a HDMI ARC input. We know nothing yet about the streaming module of it. We can only hope…

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Let’s see

[@kaybax4623]

I thought I was going to see one signal through multiple streamers displayed visually on the scope.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

🥴

[@johngutmanis3204]

I’m not sure about your conclusions regarding the WiiM Pro. I started out with the Mini and iFi power supply using the WiFi , into a Denefrips Ares12 balanced cable to McIntosh c50 Pre balanced to a McIntosh mc352 amplifier ,to Klipsch La Scala speakers, REL subs and a very good sounding room. Excellent soundstage super strong Center image details that I haven’t heard before all in all in general a fantastic experience.Then I bought the Pro and replaced the Mini. I thought there may have been better sound, but really did not notice a large delta. I really don’t know or think there’s anything more to be gained switching to a more expensive streamer for my system.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Let's agree to disagree ten.

[@JonMoralesLA]

@@johngutmanis3204 You went from a Wiim Mini to the Pro. The issue is that both would have the same issue even if somehow the pro is to a lesser degree. I think you would need to try a more upscale streamer compared to the Wiim to then confidently claim a streamer update in your system won’t make a difference.

[@oliverjosshvac2101]

I use my macbook as a streamer with a good dac from geshelli. What is your opinion on using the computer as a source. I had the wiim mini before that and would say the macbook sounds better.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I think you're right. Almost certain even.

[@kl9941]

Interesting. The Wiim Mini sounds so much better than my albeit older Mac Air.

[@jondu-sud274]

Hello Hans, Very interesting subject and clearly explained. I think that I have finally taken on board the effect of the stream-digital feed to a DAC. I believe this is why I have been underwhelmed when auditioning several 2000 euro DACs from my 700 euro node 2i.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@dannyfannyfoodle]

Very interesting!! I recently tried the Eversolo A6 but hated the DAC and hated the fiddly user interface almost as much, so it wasn’t worth it to me to use it as just a streamer with a better external DAC. I ended up going with the iFi Zen Stream primarily due to its purpose-built function with NO built-in DAC. I have a Naim DAC-V1 which, as you may know, had an asynchronous USB input that pulls the digital signal from the streamer and runs it through its own superior clock. Do you think I’m missing something by pairing a $400 streamer with a $2,800 DAC? It sounds incredible, but your video is making me question whether I’m leaving sonic money on the table, as it were. Thanks for everything you do!

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

De gustibus non disputandum est

[@gracenotes5379]

As an engineer with a signal processing and signal integrity background, I'd love to measure the impact of various streamers on the *audio* output of the connected DAC measured using Audio Precision or similar test equipment. For stereo imaging, one could use RMS vector error on a complex plane defined as (left) + j(right). As a music lover, I admit I am less than satisfied with a WiiM Pro Plus connected via S/PDIF than I am with an ARM-based SBC via USB into the same DAC (in asynchronous mode USB Audio).

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

The Audio Precision can’t measure that. My colleague Jaap Veenstra of alpha-audio.net does these measurements.

[@szh70]

What you say makes sense. The S/PDIF output is being clocked by a $.25 crystal most likely. The SBC/Pi would have the DAC’s more advanced/accurate clock handling the timing.

[@davidfairchild1640]

Yes, USB is the solution in nearly all cases - at least that is my experience. I use an RPI4 powered by an LPS and connected by USB to my DAC. The sound staging is very precise to my ears.

[@szh70]

Curious if you know about the quality of the USB output on the 4b. I know previous Pi’s had usb issues and always debate if I should get a USB galvanic isolator?

[@davidfairchild1640]

@@szh70 the RPI 4 and 5 separate the USB and Ethernet controllers/connections from a shared architecture, so that should help. Schitt brand of DACs have an indicator if they think the incoming source is poor, and that has never triggered with my RPI4. Any decent DAC should filter out a reasonable amount of electronic noise from an incoming signal.

[@sjefmous7219]

The cc is " slightly" off.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Sorry, I see what I can do

[@34332]

You have to upgrade your psu.

[@infn]

I recently ordered a Wiim Pro Plus to sate my curiousity about the quality of standalone streamers vs my dedicated Windows 11 streaming PC for audio, which uses a Matrix Audio Element H USB 3 PCIE card and an external iFi PSU. Both were used to feed my Audio-gd R7 R2R DAC via Tidal Hifi. There was a significant difference in transparency and clarity between the two, with my streaming PC setup being the superior option. Granted, the Wiim Pro Plus output to the DAC is SPDIF, versus the USB output from the PC, which might indicate that the USB interface on the DAC is superior to SPDIF, however, that in itself is likely a clear indicator of the quality of the Wiim Pro Plus streaming and digital output quality. I will be offloading the Wiim Plus and staying away from these ARM based streamers.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

👍🏼

[@hixyhicks]

I have just bought a wiim mini used to try and have an smsl su1 to try. Also,im amazed how good they sound .It's perfectly good enough for me .I do appreciate it. If you can afford more expensive items, they may sound better .

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Very nice!

[@MisterChibs]

Fantastic video and well put. I’m forwarding this to someone that asked me to compare the Wiim Pro to the LUMIN U2 Mini. 🍻

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thanks for sharing

[@TheGlotz69]

You are one of my heros, Hans! Parts quality is everything. As parts quality goes up, the 'immeasurables' become more audible.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

😭

[@Woofy-tm8si]

Well, THAT explains why my Wiim Pro's sound is almost unrecognizable from when it first arrived. It's currently powered by an LHY linear power supply and it's connected via coax to my Denafrips Hermes digital processor that is connected to my Denafrips Pontus II R2R DAC via i²s. The Hermes uses OCXO-based clocks to reclock the original data stream after electrically isolating the data stream from the original digital digital source.

[@usswia]

Interesting post as I was looking at a similar combination. I would have thought the Cyan2 reclocks the data but I'm not sure. So I think you are saying that the limitations and SQ issues outlined by Hans (i.e. the Wiim clock) are mitigated by the superior OCXO clock on the Hermes, before feeding a superior DAC

[@jakobgooijer]

​@@usswiathat would be the case if the Wiim had a USB output . The connection with the Hermes would be asynchrone

[@Charles12509]

You can hear the difference?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Reclocking requires an extremely stable voltage to the DAC, extremely good flip-flops and buffers that are very fast. Therefore it's always better to start off with a clean, well clocked digital signal on the input. Therefore spend as much as you can afford on the digital source. Preventing is far better than curing.

[@timenchanter4095]

Love the 😅 the usability and versatility and love the price. I love the way it makes my budget setup sound like a budget system with the pro ( priceless ). One more thing it has a remote, and you can add a dac ....ps I have porcupine tree in every room in my house and in my garden. Shedd lol

[@espresso8925]

Hallo.i have a 30 years old dac ,produced by dpa (The Bigger Bit). I LOVE THE SOUND QUALITY .But it makes Pop noise when changing cd's or turn off the Digital device .is there a filter or a aktiv spdif splitter that can help Grettings from Germany

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Not that I know off. Sorry.

[@espresso8925]

I will keep the Dac.these old philips Chips makes beautyfull sound .

[@espresso8925]

Pro and cons

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I can only advise you not to listen to good modern DACs…..

[@regardtvandermerwe2675]

Love the video it was very well explained. I have not previously thought about the quality of the digital stream, and no one ever talks about it. It's because of this video I purchased the Wiim pro instead of the mini even though I will use a fairly decent external dac.i believe pro and pro plus digital signal is the same.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

That’s correct

[@18yearsoldnot]

Telling people their cheap gear is not as good as more expensive gear is like taking sweets away from children. They won’t appreciate it, but I do appreciate this, because if you want to really “enjoy the music” as you say - in my opinion my cheap chifi dac was actually a setback as it created this “digital glare”, and I grew up in the cd era where this just didn’t exist. Therefore in order for me to enjoy the music, this video means a lot. It is a great video.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

It is not my intention to 'take away' anything from anyone. But if 'anyone' starts claiming its € 100 streamer is as good as any streamer, he might lead those seeking good sound in a digital dead end street,

[@usswia]

Hello Hans, very enjoyable video and answered the first part of a question I've been pondering for a few weeks now. The second part is : I understand from your video that a major limiting factor in the Wiim is the onboard clock. Does the digital data stream not get re-clocked by the Cyan 2 DAC? I could not find any documentation on the Cyan 2 clock, other than a reference to a Femto clock on the original Cyan, so I assume it's probably something similar. Can any of the SQ issues you identify (bass, image, etc) be recovered by a better quality DAC or DDC clock e.g. an Ocxo clock on a Denafrips Hermes? Generally, I agree with matching components price-wise but I find the Wiim app interface excellent - better than all I've tried so far at various price points (interestingly Musical Fidelity are partnering with Wiim for streaming solutions) so, like many, I'm asking how can I take the performance to the next level, while still enjoying the user friendliness, online support, active forum etc of the Wiim equipment and community. If you are ever in N.Ireland, free B&B in exchange for some room set up tips. (or maybe that's not really free, then!)

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

It's not only the crystal. See my video "The BS about network switches and the like." (kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHSpp3ywr7KknM0). What goes for the switch also goes for streamers.

[@rcavor74]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hi Hans, Can you put the link on measurement results of Wiim Pro Plus (digital output especially) of Alpha audio? What was the test setup? What is in your opinion SQ difference between Wiim Pro Plus digital output compared to your favorite Magna Mano MK3 with the same external DAC? For example, In one of your reviews you set the estimation that Mano MK3 is on 80% of Grimm Audio MU1.

[@philpaston6374]

Hi ….i wonder if something like a digital to digital converter for everything digital that connects to the dac might be useful here since they usually have super high resolution clocks and apparently clean the signal up 🤷‍♂️

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

It can help, but only if the DAC following it up does.t ruin it again to some degree (with is often the case.

[@chakravarthiamithraghav8008]

How about results if I upgrade every non audiophile components in the wiim, to a stricter compliant components? 1. Certainly the cost goes up but is it worth an effort?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

You'll have a very hard time fixing those components on to the PCM. And if you succeed, I wonder if the PCM design is good enough or even has become worse. But it's an interesting challenge. Please let us know when you have results.

[@daveday8132]

for this old man the app alone will keep me coming back. the eversolo for me was nothing more than a boat anchor.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thanks for the compliment (I think 🤔)

[@Music2Die4]

I used an Audiophonics DigiRescue (from France) reclocker between Wiim streamer (with linear power supply) and SMSL SU-X DAC, the sound improved considerably..... I cannot say if it improved to the level of a more expensive streamer, but I am happy with this combination.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Enjoy the music

[@usswia]

Have you tried with the SU-X without the DR? The PLL circuit of the SU-X should do a grand job of removing jitter. Sometimes adding an external reclocker or resampler can increase the noise floor and not add anything to jitter removal if the DAC has good PLL circuit

[@RamisDad]

I see the Wiim ultra has started shipping to customers. Hoping Hans updates this video with analysis of the Wiim Ultra in the not too distant future. :)

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

A review sample has not ben offered to me yet.

[@RamisDad]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel yes, if or when a review unit does get to you..

[@nallyvaico]

That's the analysis I've been searching for years - since the moment I realized a decade ago the digital (optical) out from my computer yielded an inferior sound I could hear right away, but I didn't know why. It sounded dull, and the lows were kind of recessed or cut off. Digital is digital, I thought - why did it sound INFERIOR compared to when I played it on a conventional CD player? I have accidentally bumped into a WiiM Mini at a delicious price, I was about to order it; yet, again I was overwhelmed with my thoughts since it was its Optical Out that I was buying, and then I found THIS video. Now, I'm putting it all on hold. I was going to hook it up primarily with my JVC UX-MD9000 micro system that has an Optical In, and a DAC, obviously. I really wonder if it will sound on par with a CD player

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

So you expect a very cheap streamer to sound better than a cd-player. That will only be the case if it's a poor quality cd-player..

[@brankozivkovic6555]

hi, are there possibilities to obtain I2S out from the WiiM Ultra? Are there some pins on the pcb with I2S signals?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I’m sure there is but I would not bother. It will use the same clock as the other digital outputs.

[@LarryNiles-t1d]

My WiiM Pro has a micro usb power connection, how do I upgrade the power supply. I see power plugs in your videos.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Buy a 5 volt audio grade power supply that comes with a USB C connector.

[@Nefty_]

Thank you for the great content again Hans, very interesting. I think the Cyan 2 is also a great Dac to hear the differences between the sources. As it doesn’t OS neither reclocks if I’m right? Has it a pll or something like that?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

All DAC's use a PLL or FLL to catch the incoming signal. The often mentioned 'reclocking' can only do so much.

[@Nefty_]

Okay I didn’t know that. But that makes sense. However why can we disable that pll on the Holo Audio May for instance?

[@PauloFerreira-hh6zv]

Hi Hans, thank you very much for the excelente video. I'm looking for a streamer to connect to my Pontus II. I'm thinking about Volumio Rivo and Ferrum Hypsos. I like Magna Mano, but I think if I want to sell it later to upgrade, it will be easier to sell Rivo, keeping Hypsos to connect to the streamer I buy at the time. I think that the Rivo + Hypsos will not be inferior in sound level compared to the Magna Mano.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

As you might conclude from the fact that I did not go for the Volumio - and I already own a Hypsos - that I disagree where sound quality is concerned (not to mention the versatility)

[@PauloFerreira-hh6zv]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you for the answer Hans. It was probably me who made the wrong conclusion. I had an idea that in the Rivo review, Hans had said that the Rivo connected by AES/EBU to the DAC and with the Farad 3, was very close to the level of the Magna Mano, so I concluded that the Hypsos being better than the Farad 3 , by connecting the Rivo to the Hypsos, it would surpass the Magna Mano. One of my dilemmas is that a Farad 3, with Purple Fuse and the L2 Silver DC Cable, is at the price of the Hypsos here in Portugal, so if the Hypsos has better sound than the Farad and has the possibility of choosing the voltage between 5V-30v, I think it makes more sense to buy the Hypsos than the Farad 3, with the Fuse and cable upgrade. Unless I'm missing some detail.

[@xstensl8823]

i doubt you will have trouble selling the Mano. hard to find used.

[@PauloFerreira-hh6zv]

Magna Mano is an unknown product here in Portugal. When there are a lot of positive reviews about a product, it is easy to sell, for example: DACs from Denafrips, amplifiers from Hegel or Streamers from Eversolo. Now a product like Magna Mano that has Hans' review and little else is very difficult to sell. I say this for the used market in Portugal, perhaps in other countries it will be different.

[@HailKingCeezer]

I have a little modified usb to coax converter from an all in one HP pc with JRiver. Been told for so long to ditch the noisy computer for a streamer as well as ditching usb cables. Finally after years, i took the plunge after all the rave reviews of the WiiM ultra. Found the price was right to try. Wow. The spdif out to my dac was like taking 10 steps back from my computer audio. It was lean and lossy sounding. If i have to pay more for a streamer + network bridges, etc, i'd rather just stick to my computer audio. The downside is im missing out on a streaming platform that can play like a radio on shuffle so i can hear new music.I do get tired of listening to my same albums all the time despite having a very large library. I believe i could get something like Tidal to work with JRiver, but i'm not tech savvy enough for that stuff.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

As I have said repeatedly.....

[@HailKingCeezer]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I can completely understand now paying as much for a streamer as your dac is worth. I just can't stomach that total investment when pc audio sounds great to me. I couldn't even try my DDC with the WiiM Ultra usb out to see if that would better the pc set up, but it did not work so the WiiM Ultra would force me to invest even more in a DDC that would work with it. If i were to purchase a $2k streamer, it would be to also use it as a dac such as the Auralic S1, but i know the dac in it wont match my standalone $2k dac

[@Nefty_]

Hello Hans, by chance, would you know if the Mano will produce silkier, less sibilant highs, than the Bluesound node 2i feeding the cyan 2? Thank you

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Absolutely!

[@Nefty_]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thank you so much

[@aleph0909]

Is Bluesound node an upgrade over Wiim pro, when using external dac and power supply?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Even when you use it with the internal DAC it is an upgrade.

[@aleph0909]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel👍🏼 thanks

[@simmobb2]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Yes but is the Node better than The Wiim if both use the same external DAC?

[@ladevinette]

Hi Hans If I place between Wiim pro and the dac a Mutec MC3+ reclocker , is it a good combination Thanks

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I haven’t tested it so I can’t say.

[@britishskiing]

Would the digital coax output from something like an Audiolab 7000N be better than my Wiim Pro? Or do you need to head up to £1000 to hear a benefit? (Wiim Pro - Qutest - Trilogy 933 - LCD-4)

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I have not reviewed the 7000N but I would be surprised if that wouldn't sound better. Already devices like the SOtM sMS200 will sound better. And that costs € 545

[@BearDave]

I finally found answers to my questions about Wiim Mini. I will definitely follow this channel !

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Welcome aboard!

[@FFosaG]

With raspberry pi now being affordable again, how do you think a raspberry based Volumio streamer compares to a WiMM streamer? Is there any chance to get to the level of performance DIY?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

That depends on the DAC or digital output HAT board and power supply you choose.

[@rosswarren436]

Would love for you to get in and review a NAD CS-1 streamer and compare its output to the WiiM Pro Plus. What are we getting for the extra money? ($349 USD) compared to the WiiMs? Is jitter significantly bettter? How does it compare to the Node? I mean, if you are going to feed an external DAC, would the NAD CS-1 do just as well as the Node? Sadly, the CS-1 does not offer USB out so the level of clocking will be limited to that on the CS-1, even if you use an external DAC., correct?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

It's almost daily that someone asks me for a comparison between two specific pieces of gear. I'm afraid there is no way that I can do that. Sorry.

[@rosswarren436]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannelthanks for all the reviews you do anyway.

[@ulif.7593]

Thank you for your good work. I thought about buying a Holo Audio Cyan 2 and a WiiM Pro Plus. Many YTs said, that the WiiM is a great deal. On the other hand I heard about the Holo Audio Red , which is a network streamer and a „DDC“. This one is said to be sensational. Did you tested it or is it possible for you to do this?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I din' est it. But I tested the Magna Mano Ultra MK III Farad (kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKGcgIWXp7l7o6s) and the Denafrips Arce (kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIKzaISMZdegoNk). I chose the Magna as you might have seen.

[@philipteater3714]

For $18,000, or euro, you can make a wiim pro plus sound great! Love it.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

You might have missed the point if you just find it funny.

[@philipteater3714]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I get the point, Hans. Great way to make it. The cost it takes to build in the isolation and immunity…

[@RamisDad]

Really appreciate this video. Im looking for best streamers (not including dac) for the price. Interested in how the wiim ultra would compare w the wiim pro plus. I like the Wiim user experience but wonder if i need to step up to sonething like the eversolo A6

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I can't judge that for you. It depends in your stereo and your ears.

[@RamisDad]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks Hans, I'm hoping that you make that comparison video in the future and hope to use the insights you present to better inform my decision :)

[@llLL12348]

Hi Hans Can you also talk about difference between streamer vs a pc software for streaming. Tidal on a streamer vs tidal on a pc vs tidal on an iPhone sound quite different. Inspite of using same external DAC for all digital sources there is definitely some sound difference. Can you post a video about this difference?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I'll think about it.

[@jptok]

Thanks for an excellent video as usual, As I understand, digital outputs of cheap streamers are not clean, does this also apply to the Auralic Mini given that it is relatively cheap?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

It was good for the money but compared to other Auralic products it is of lower quality sound wise and build quality.

[@jptok]

Thanks so much Hans for taking the time to reply 🙏

[@James-mb5jr]

Great video! By the way, have you tried the Holo Red streamer and how it partners with the Cyan 2?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I have reviewed both. You can find by searching for ‘beekhuyzen & holo’ in KZbin.

[@Pinomatt61]

Hello Hans. Very nice test, even if introducing the Etheregen in the chain must have influenced a lot the second and third device performances. I own a 2GO/2YU streamer from Chord, it goes to an MScaler using a Curious Evolved USB cable, then via a self-made optical link to a TT2 DAC; each of them is powered independently from an SJ lps. When I tested the Etheregen that a friend borrowed me, I immediately noticed an incredible soundstage was appearing, unfortunately I had to give it back and I'm still waiting for Uptone to release the second version of that device to buy it. The Etheregen is not just a switch, it makes a very good job isolating the streamer from the electrical noise present in the network and restoring correct signal timing . A well balanced system can reveal every change in the digital chain and I totally agree with you: even if "bits are bits" the way they are sent to the DAC makes a huge difference in sound quality. Lucky you for owning an MU2 🙂

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Yes the EtherREGEN has a small effect on the sound quality of the WiiM's. But is was minor compared to the influence the WiiM's have on the sound.

[@andrewowens5577]

Excellent analysis and presentation. I may steal your slides. I have the Wiim pro plus. I love the feature set but the sound from RCA is lackluster. As a digital streamer it works well. FYI im feeding a peach tree 500 the coaxial signal. I also have a zen streamer which somehow sounds better. can you comment on the psychoacoustics of processing digital signals?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Well, there is a copyright on the slides. The digital output of the WiiM is good for the money but I know lots that produce a better digital signal if you spend a bit more money.

[@paulgreen2303]

Hans, 5+ years ago you championed the SoTM SMS200/Ultra/Neo network streamers and I'm one of the thousands that have had one ever since. Could you consider revisiting SoTM streamers in comparison with you new system one streamer??? No one brings up SoTM streamers any longer. Are they still relevant?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Be assured the SOtM sMS200 Ultra Neo is in the same class as the Magna Mano Ultra MK III Farad. But where the SOtM has USB as output, the Magna offers AES/EBU (of SPDIG) and I²S.

[@charlyvanbuuren2947]

Dankjewel Hans voor de heldere uitleg!

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

👍🏼

[@aussie8114]

I’m using the Bluesound Node as a streaming transport into my amps very good DAC. Sounds good to me and lets me enjoy music. That’s what it should be about, playing music and enjoying it.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I agree completely

[@middleearthltd]

The Wiim Ultra will be released by June so we shall see how much they up the performance and price point. I was going to get a Pro Plus but I will wait and see what the Ultra has to offer. If it is too far North of $400 I am not going there. I would just get a Mercury 3 or the Pro Plus.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Please don't hype products that are not yet on the market. It usually leads to irrational decisions.

[@middleearthltd]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel it may be your lack of understanding of English but hype would be saying that it is going to be great. I said no such thing. Please don’t accuse me of “hype” when all I said was that I was going to wait and see what the Wiim Ultra “has to offer” You should try and understand what hype means as that is zero hype. It is rational to wait for the imminent release of a new model if one interest in spending money on a new component. I never recommended buying it I recommended deliberation and patience. The exact opposite of hype and the definition of rational behavior.

[@AndreaDiLiddo]

Hello Hans, first of all thanks deeply for this kind of content and for all you do. You really do have an amazing channel full of interesting and educating stuff. If possibile, I would love to ask you a little help on how to improve my chain, which features one WIIM pro plus as the streamer. I'm an headphones listener, i have some good headphones, like the He1000 Stealth, a good dac for its price (Chord Mojo 2, even tho i'm considering the Holo Cyan 2) and a good amplifier. It seems like the streamer could be the weak point of my chain, so there is the route of buying another streamer, like the Bluesound node N130, which is the more budget friendly option, the X or the Eversolo which is probably more expensive than what I would like. The other route is to get a DDC like the Gustard U18 (budget friendly) or the Singxer SU6. Not considering the features and thinking only about sound quality, the DDC route seems to be the most convenient, especially considering the possibility to use I2s with a future DAC. What do you think?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I’m sorry but I can’t do personal advice

[@johntucker5994]

This is one of your best and most helpful reviews as relatively uncomplicated as it was. Thank you!

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@DaSixSixOne]

I had WiiM Pro Plus into a Schiit Yggrdasil MIB via COAX into a Mjolnir 3 and DCA E3 headphones and the S’s were shrill and sibilant. Upgraded to Matrix Element S connected via USB into same chain and soundstage opened up and S’s sound soft and natural now. Great suggestion to pay as much for source equipment as one pays for the DAC. Very true.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thanks for sharing

[@inthebasement]

Respectfully coax and optical from the Pro Plus sound clearly different into the same dac. The reason for this is not clear and it is wrong to assume it proves anything about sources. I would assume the issue is most likely at the dac, and others would no doubt want to know about my cabling. I would question the motives and/or analysis of anyone offering up confident conclusions in this area contrary to the logic and available comparative data.

[@michaelj.4187]

thanks, Hans! sending love to everyone...

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

🙏

[@FunkBass010]

...I almost bought a WiiM Pro as a streamer for my RME ADI-2 DAC FS that I use as my AIO for my Meze Empyrean. So thank you for all the Information provided, dear Hans! Just I now need to watch out for another streamer...

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

You find the sub € 500 I reviewed in this playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLMbsmejHnP8HQxyYy3wyzX1w4V8b6Jy3n

[@FunkBass010]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you for sharing the link! I will watch the videos and see how those streamers compare to something like the Bluesound Node X

[@Thaivacationer]

Have you tried comparing usb output. There should not be any difference there.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Yep, and it’s good for the money but there clearly are better ones. For instance the SOtM sMS-200.

[@Thaivacationer]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I don't agree this device is good at any money. I've just sold it today. My 10 years old (maybe more) Squeezebox touch is a much better streamer for similar money. It's coax output is 10times better. Also the software much more user friendly. Works as it should... Wiim is a pain to use if you have a music collection on a server. And also you don't have to spend 1,5k on a streamer. Old SB touch is almost free these days. Try it. It wont cost you much.

[@proxmoxie]

I had a strange experience recently with my setup - i decided to try HQ player so i downloaded the trial version on my Macbook Pro late 2013 and connected my Moon 280D DAC (witout streaming board) via a standard 0.5m USB cable. Compared to my Primare DD15 CD transport, and Primare NP5 network player connected via SPDIF - the soundstage just opened up, and sounded more lively. Perhaps its due to the oversampling DAC chip in the Moon that doesnt has to work as hard when HQ player upsamples it to 352 khz, or perhaps its just me who needed some variation. I ripped one of my CDs to a FLAC file using XLD and tested switching back and fourth. Im confused.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Good upsampling does that.

[@boomcrash]

Hans has the best reviews. I love the way he presents and explains. Always an education.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

🙏🏻

[@hennied]

Your timing is perfect Hans. I am looking for a good streaming transport and have narrowed it down to either the Magna Mano or the Lindemann Limetree Bridge II. Is the Mano significantly better (and therefore worth the extra cost)? The system: Mano or Limetree - Cyan 2 - Burson Conductor R - Hypex Nilai Monoblocks - Kef R3.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I can't chooser for you, but I have bought the Magna as you can see.

[@hudosytuk]

Tried similar streamers/DDCs like on this video. Interesting, observation explained in this video doesn't match my experience, and many other reviewers who tsted Wiim Pro (with LPSU) also didn't hear such a big difference. Hans has some extraordinary hearing even with the "budget" system, much better than me and almost all other reviewers.

[@erichhofer201]

alpha-audio had reviewed the pro plus and also got these results, digital outputs are bad at the Wiim

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Of course I. do have extraordinary hearing. It is said that I can even ear bats navigating😆. The real truth lies in having a very structural testing scheme and ditto setup.

[@rcavor74]

​@@erichhofer201Can you put the link on measurement results of Wiim Pro Plus (digital output especially) of Alpha audio? What was the test setup?

[@cmessi]

And what about the Bluesound Node? It it of higher quality?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Sure

[@cmessi]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel do you have an opinion about equalizing? I have a traumatized left ear, sensitive for too much bass. Thinking about buying an equalizer (MiniDSP/Eversolo). I want to do a high pass filter at 65Hz for example. Do you think that will work well?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

In general I don't like using equalising since it causes time smearing. But for compensating ear problems it's a different matter.

[@dilbertpugh8517]

Thank you for this Hans; hype for the WiiM has been deafening recently. If it's is not the all conquering, cost defying ultimate streamer, can you rank it against recent streamers? It would be helpful to know where it sits against an Allo Usbridge Signature, an iFi Zen Stream, a Pecan Pi, a Stack Audio Link or an SotM sMS-200. You have been very impressed by a few of these but the air has been sucked out of their existence and they are almost never mentioned now.

[@michaelwright1602]

It is not the WiiM hardware that has everyone buzzing, it is the WiiM software. What good is a streamer if the software does not allow you to enjoy the music? I wish WiiM would license the software, then I may look to upgrade back to one of the much more expensive streamers I have had through here.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

They have licensed their software in the past in more upmarket equipment. Advance Paris was one of them if I remember well. But more upmarket equipment doesn't bring the volume needed to generate sufficient income. And that's needed for software development.

[@michaelwright1602]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I did not know that, thank you Hans.

[@michaelwright1602]

Thank you for another outstanding video! Just thinking of Amir, bits and analog... But, as a WiiM Pro owner, and user, I have owned better sounding streamers, no doubt about that. The reason the WiiM Pro is still here, and the others gone, is very simple, it is the software. What good is a streamer if the software will not allow you to enjoy the music? I wish WiiM would license their software, as I would be first in line to drop a grand or more on a high quality device to stream my music. But, here we are. Let us see what the WiiM Ultra brings to the table! Thank you Hans.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

My pleasure

[@hermanvisser4034]

I bought a WiiM Pro and immediately put it back in its box, as I thought it sounded terrible compared to my Cocktail Audio X50D streamer. Do you think a Singxer SU6 can clean up its output, Hans?

[@Audiodreamer192-24]

Ya the wiim products are a good value entry point into streamers but not up to critical listening when compared to higher quality products.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Better invest is a higher quality streamer than trying to cure a poor digital signal.

[@Proper49er]

Interesting report. Thanks for the hard work. I feel there is a lot of merit to your education. As this streamer adds some basic functionality to the room. I am excited about its arrival. I do pause to weigh the value in my current application. The use of a streamer: 1. adds lossless apple music for electronic recordings 1980-current. 2. Adds room correction. 3. Multiple room streaming is more of a Christmas gimmick. 2 rebuilt technics 1200 turntables (nagaoka mp-150, Shure SC35C ) Numark M6 mixer onkyo M-282, or crown 1502, temporary paradigm 40v3 Paradigm 10” sub No treatment

[@RAMIRO61FERNANDES]

THANK YOU! EXCELENT! ....................Magnificent!!!!!.......

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad you like it!

[@BobGeogeo]

Thanks for the video. It would have neen better if you inclded the actual wave forms instead of generalizing.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

See my pinned comment

[@Thaivacationer]

I've just sold my wiim pro today. I don't think it's good in any way. A pain to use if you have a collection on a server, very veiled sound through coax output. Squeezebox touch is a champion for wiim. And this is a 15 years old streamer which had a similar price as wiim pro back in the day. No comparison really. If you want to test a good budget streamer you shoul get a used SB touch. It will cost you almost nothing. You wont get as many views, but the quality and wiim.... don't go hand in hand. Wiim has a problem with 24/192 files, cracking noises. SB touch no problems.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thanks for sharing

[@BobbyBass-x6i]

Thank you for the video. Your analysis is very helpful. Keep up the great work!

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thanks, will do!

[@dikludas]

Excellent 🙏🏼

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thank you too

[@RBA2022]

What a clear and informative explanation Hans. I learned a lot! Bedankt Rienus

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@uncletoma]

subtitles are completely wrong, and as a hearing-impaired person this is no good :(

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I do apologise. It's fixed now.

[@uncletoma]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks a lot :)

[@uncletoma]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks a lot :)

[@bradbortner2601]

😅I became a believer in “bits are not bits” when I tried inserting an ifi pure 2 spdif in chain between a sonos port and a denafrips ares 2 dac. This reclocks the signal and galvanically isolates it. The difference was stark. Deeper base, better imaging. I suspect if I had a streamer that output usb, I would notice something similar. The problem I face is that the sonos software really is better. If I moved to something else, I’d really miss universal search across music services, as well as the solid integration with Amazon’s alexa ecosystem.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

There are companies that improve the Sonos streamers significantly. Here in my country it's Magna (magnahifi.com/sonos-connect-ultimo/) but there are more. They sound great but are limited to 48 kHz.

[@brown-eyedman4040]

As always, thank you sir. It is my opinion, worthless as it is, that the same "bits is bits" folks are the same ones who don't hear differences in cables. Which is OK with me, go with what you hear. But if someone does hear a difference, don't minimize their experience.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Fair enough!

[@2madamimadam290]

I upgraded from a Wiim Pro to Denafrips Arce. The difference was noticable and not in my head. My GF who is not an audiophile at all agreed and actually preferred the Wiim. To me the Arce had better separation, soundstage and leading edge attack. However, the midbass felt thinner. The Wiim was fuller where the Arce seemed to have more noticeable bass tone note to note. I prefer the Arce. Roon let me setup both and i could synchronize the same song and go back and forth. Bits may be bits but transferring a digital stream can be affected by the equipment IMO. Great review. Much appreciated.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thanks 🙏

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Enjoy the music 😊

[@JazzinBlues]

Must be nice.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Very!

[@TheAlphaAudio]

Well explained Hans!

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

🙏🏽