Cheap vs Expensive Fermenter: Does The Beer Taste Different?

[@grm3]

If you temp control one and not the other it is no longer a comparison of plastic vs stainless steel fermenters.

[@Hawk2phreak]

Wasn't really the point though. One was all the bells and whistles, one was plain.

[@Narapoia1]

Yeah, he wasn't testing the same variable at all, pretty dumb. Beer fermented in the $900 fermenter will be rubbish without temperature control 🤷

[@ridley8340]

Precisely, this was a test of temp control vs no temp control, expensive or cheap was irrelevant. For the price of an Inkbird and a used fridge accurate temp control is cheap.

[@Leadership_matters]

Truth

[@andybecker5040]

I’d be interested to see a similar test but where the cheaper fermenter is placed in temp control. For example, the CF-5 with chiller vs cheap fermenter in a chest freezer w/ controller.

[@wesleyhanson4564]

I agree. I ferment in a carboy in a temp controlled fridge. Once I started fermenting in a fridge the quality went up!

[@davejf1837]

Agreed. I think they would have been even closer in color, smell and taste

[@ianross-bain3515]

Just saw this and my first thought was not a real comparison as he is not temp controlling his cheap ferementer. My beer quality improved as soon as i brought in temp control £30 quid second hand fridge and a homemade inkbird, now with real inkbird! Id e interested to know if closed transfer, pressure of ferment and shape of vessel make a difference though

[@malzundhopfen]

You could also ferment in kegs, that way you can do all the fancy stuff (except for harvesting yeast, but there are also ways to do it) for a 10th of a price what a stainless steel fermenter costs.

[@jonathanlumsdon7140]

You need to just change one variable at a time - you aren’t testing the fermenter, you are testing the fermenter and the glycol chiller. As someone new to brewing, I’d love to see more comparisons of cheap vs expensive like this so I know what to focus on. I’ve just got an free fridge and an inkbird for temp control. I still use a plastic fermenter and bottle condition. I’ve just switched to bottles water. I also extract brew as I’m time poor (please don’t judge me!). Just need some pointers on where to focus next!

[@vgamedude12]

It really confirms my suspicions. People have brewed beer thousands of years in a very simple and even "wrong" way and its ALWAYS been good Beer is a delicious and traditional beverage it doesnt have to be fancy

[@jckelley10]

I was out drinking beers with family and friends last Friday and I wondered aloud if an expensive stainless steel brewing system makes a better beer than the beer I make in my plastic fermentation buckets. I was happily surprised to see your experiment and even happier with the results!

[@BrewMeister27]

Depends on what you mean by "better." An expensive fermenter setup will produce a more predictable, consistent beer. But it might taste worse than a beer fermented in a bucket. Open transfers after fermentation will always make a beer taste worse over time. Beer can retain its freshness for months without significant oxygen exposure. But an open transfers will reduce those months down to weeks. Especially with beers that use a lot of flavor/aroma hops.

[@ovidiumarian6719]

A stainless steel equipment make your work easier to clean and sanitation of all things and the worth in the fermentor i absence of light ferment better.

[@brandonb417]

@@BrewMeister27 This isn't always true. When I transfer into a corny I'll fill the corny with CO2 (which is heavier than air, so the O2 will get purged) and put a paper towel wet with sanitizer over the opening and slip the tube past the towel. As the beer comes up, the CO2 comes out, and any O2 in the top of the keg will get pushed out before the beer can get to it.

[@brandonb417]

The biggest difference between the two fermenters is the temp control. I used to ferment in a temp controlled freezer and it did pretty well. I have since moved and instead got a brew jacket. It works really well at holding temps. There are a couple things you have to plan for in advance, like cold crashing in an actual fridge, and using a counter flow chiller to hit ferm temp before going into the fermenter. The brew jacket is very slow in moving the temps. But these results are attainable with cheaper equipment, it just takes a bit more work to get there.

[@BrewMeister27]

@@brandonb417 I agree, racking into a purged keg makes a huge difference. But CO2 blankets are easily disturbed, like when putting the lid on the keg. You're probably getting some oxygen exposure with that method whereas a closed system, with positive pressure, can transfer beer without any oxygen exposure. Does such a small amount of exposure make a perceptible difference in the beer? Maybe not, but eliminating this concern is certainly an advantage for more expensive systems.

[@ferrisr]

Some thoughts on what you could test: * Malt brands * Freshly crushed malts on brew day versus pre-crushed (or crushed ahead of time) * Yeast comparisons * Fermentation temperature profiles and the things that go along with that (impacts of D-rest, cold crash, dry-hop temperature, etc).

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Thank you!

[@BrewMeister27]

What about testing the oxidation of closed transfers vs simply draining into a purged keg?

[@hunterwebber6025]

Ive always been curious about different yeasts and fermentation temperatures along with mash temp.

[@mild_flounder]

Also maybe a side-by-side test of different base malts!

[@ValkeryRide]

For WLP500, Brew Like a Monk lists the "medium" temperature range at 67-75°F resulting in a spicy, light phenol and fruity flavor profile. Without cooling though, the temperature of fermentation could push it into the "high" range (75-85°F) resulting in a fruity, moderately phenolic and solventy flavor profile.

[@JesterNoNamer]

I'd love to see these same taste comparisons but with Norm blind to the variable. Would eliminate any potential, subconscious bias going in. Blind test first would be more entertaining!

[@64cheako86]

I use a fermonster and utilize a closed transfer by purging the keg with CO2, putting the line from the fermenter spigot to the Out (liquid) post on the keg, put a second hose on the In (gas) post back to the top of the fermenter and let gravity do the work. The beer pushes the CO2 out from the bottom up and the CO2 goes back into the fermenter

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Recycling!

[@1mhv2themax]

I do the same, keep the purge open on the Corny and gravity feed the beer into the out spout. Fill from bottom out, pushing out the inert CO2

[@luukgx]

Came her to comment the same :)

[@davec4955]

I was going to suggest exactly the same !👍

[@rpguitar]

You can stick a Fermonster in an Inkbird-controlled fridge, pipe the airlock output into a keg to purge the latter with ferm CO2, and perform a closed gravity transfer from the spigot to a keg at the end. None of those capabilities are unique to a fancy fermenter. Your experiment didn't really compare fermenters; it compared different processes.

[@unnuked]

That's a gold tip for purging

[@gtx332]

Does an inkbird controller have a negative effect on the fridge given it switches the electricity on and off?

[@rpguitar]

@@gtx332 Controllers are very commonly used by tons of brewers. There's been no issue for me in at least 10 years of use.

[@Soulripper1988]

​@@gtx332Used one for cheesemaking for some years... Works l Well, doesnt brake anything 😊

[@cmcurran5]

I’d love to see traditional 3 tier brewing setup compared to BIAB. So many claim they’re so different

[@malex2200]

This makes me very happy as a new homebrewer using a base kit. It means that the expensive equipment I have been considering for easing my workload will have minimal impact. It really just comes down to good ingredients and proper technique. Not equipment.

[@geraldfrost4710]

LoL! And here I am with a plastic bucket (and lid) from Walmart for five bucks. Two buckets, actually, as I rack to the second bucket for a couple of days before bottling. The first bucket is used for bleaching bottles, which, when capped, goes back to fermenting. Ten dollars for buckets, four dollars for bubblers, and a two bucks for plastic hoses. Under twenty bucks for equipment.

[@bobhelm4942]

Its been my experiance that if you dont know what the brew was fermented in, you can't tell. As a LHBS worker I have challenged many customer to tell the difference between plastic, glass or S/S fermenters. Very few, without prior knowledge, can tell the difference.

[@Mikemat5150]

A traditional cold vs. a warm lager fermentation would be a good comparison.

[@ffwast]

A comparison I'd love to see is pitching two different yeasts in a batch versus pitching them in their own batches then blending them.

[@ffwast]

The best price to feature ratio I found for fermenters is used corny kegs. Stainless steel, rated for high pressure and equipped with safety valves, standardized gas and liquid fittings, compatible with floating dip tubes and spunding valves, built for easy storage and handling, and best of all dual purpose for storing and dispensing beer when not fermenting.

[@codyhacker4937]

This is the by far the best option. Ferment in the corny, in a 5 cu ft freezer with an inkbird and spend about $500 (less if you buy used gear) and that even includes a co2 setup for carbonating and transfers. You also a have a keg cooler when you're done too. No reason at all to spend around $2k for a fermenter and glycol. Save your money.

[@ffwast]

@@codyhacker4937 a set up like that from used parts can be had for far less than $500 too

[@TheApartmentBrewer]

While I also own a Spike CF5 , I almost always find myself reaching for the Anvil bucket fermenter instead, unless I need the extra capabilities that the conical has. I think it would be interesting to see this experiment conducted with a variety of different beer styles. This was great to evaluate temp control impacts, but I think a hop forward beer is going to see a much more significant impact from oxygen exposure than a Belgian ale, plus then you can really leverage the features of the conical. Keep up these experimentation videos, they are really fun to watch!

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

I must say I did enjoy the ease in clean-up of the PET fermenter. No tri-clamps to disassemble. Can throw it around in the sink.

[@pondwaterjr]

i like that fact that you proved you can make great beer on cheap equ, and that you dont need to spend a fortune. we all upgrade over time but there is nothing wrong starting cheap

[@brucearchambault6774]

Interesting video, but to truly test cheap vs. expensive I'm disappointed that you didn't control temps on both, because you ended up introducing the variable of fermentation temp into the mix.

[@ValkeryRide]

Exactly this.. or... For example; Do not temperature controle it, so the fermentation temperature can rise a little and give you some other interesting or disgusting flavours

[@seriomarkj]

These are always fun to see..always shows it doesn't make u a good brewer, but a good brewer can make better beer (or more precise beer)

[@gregbush8573]

I'd like to see the exact comparison on a beer that would see more faults from higher temps, belgian yeasts often "improve" their characteristics in a hot tank, whereas doing a clean us05 pale ale or similar would give you more esters in the cheap system

[@NetworkGeek280]

All grain vs partial mash. Pressure vs no pressure. Kviek vs lager yeast.

[@danielreiss3443]

Thanks for your concise presentation for a "newbie" such as myself! As soon as you began I heard you say my 3 favorite words, " Belgian, Trappist, Ale"!

[@marksoler7338]

The homebrewing shop in Santa Barbara is closing, and there is a Gluten free beer kit on the shelf. Want it? It would be fun to see it made.

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

What is a gluten free beer kit I wonder?

[@marksoler7338]

@@TheHomebrewChallenge Good point! It's based on sorghum extract, with non gluten adjunct grains, some honey, Belgian yeast, and hops. Might taste like sh*t, might be passable. I was going to make it in the shop (BYOB! In Santa Barbara) but ran out of time when I made a New Zealand Bitter instead....

[@alexrocks135]

I have a ss brewtech unitank and don’t use a glycol chiller. I just use a soda fridge and put it in there with an ink bird, saved 1000$

[@JP..]

I really enjoy the relaxed cheerful style of your videos and the chemistry with you both. Clearly good mates! I would be interested to see the same recipe but: 1. with different brand malts. I’m often substituting brands due to local availability here in South Australia. 2. perhaps the same brew with different yeast. Maybe an English bitter (I do miss cask ale as a Pom is Oz!) with two different English ale yeasts so it’s a close call! 3. Same beer legged and bottled and tested after say 4 to 6 weeks. Already looking forward to the next video.

[@eddjordan2399]

brilliant i love this kind of stuff. plus people not being cocky and just going oh well fair enough. top work.

[@frederickstienheld285]

To be a fair comparison you really should have put the plastic fermenter in a temperature controlled fridge. That is going to make a huge difference right off the bat

[@alvaroschudeck957]

I love this channel. I'm also a home brewer, for the last 4 /5 years. Have done 40 batches aprox, not too much but learned and improved a lot. Also do some beer catas with friends, coworkers and relatives, and have some relatives telling my beers are better than the expensive imported ones. Now to the point. I can suggest 2 improves. A. - While doing a cata, the aroma, for the best and real sense of the aroma, try to smell as quick as you serve the beer. The first aroma is lost very quick, its consist on aromatocs and they are very volatile. If you spend to many time, you just get the 2nd aroma, and that is not as intense and lost some of the floral, frutal notes of the beer. 2- To avoid air contamination of any other yeast or microorganism in the air in a very cheap way while transfering. Just keep some clean pieces of cotton fabrics only for this use and submerge them in a disinfectant solution (can be peracetic acid) for 5 or 10 min. Then stretch the fabric and use it to cover any gap, even wrap a little the hose, when transfering the mosto or beers. Just that. Hope it helps someone.

[@808JuJu]

I find it funny that you had to tell him which one was the cheap fermenter vs the expensive one so that he could trick himself into liking one more

[@unboxwithme2366]

Just a few thoughts pro stainless steel conical. WIth the CF5 you can yeast and reduce risk for off flavors. You have always access to your beer though the sample valve and can measure fermentation process. In my test the beer reaches a much longer "best" date - in my kegs 6 months+. Cleaning much easier and no risks for infections. I think with a stainless steel conical you do not necessarily create better taste, but better quality.

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Great points.

[@gilleswalther5964]

Conclusion, when the beer is good, it's good

[@diegodamo813]

You probably saved my life..or at least my bank account. I understand i dont need one of these beautiful, wonderful, almighty stainless steel fermenter.

[@BrewMeister27]

The biggest advantage of temperature control is consistency between batches and ensuring yeast performance, especially with yeasts outside your standard US-05 type varieties (lager strains, kveik, ect). Your pressure transfers are critical for long term stability of the beer, but you won't notice that in an immediate taste test. A good test would be brewing a NEIPA, kegging with and without a closed system, waiting a month, and then taste testing.

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Yeah no doubt it would be very apparent in a NEIPA. That style seems sensitive to any oxygen exposure.

[@dj_cam]

When you know what is what there is a bias, I like the 3 cup blind method that was an honest way to do it, cool challenge

[@hokehinson5987]

As a home brewer my biggest mission was to brew the best brew without fancy equipment. As a retired mechanic it is very easy to be drawn to all kinds of specific tools. My only specialty was a chest freezer used to ferment & lager. As with any hobby started base line and evolved. Liquid malts adjusted with a lb of DME then boiled and hopped. Then same process with grain seepage. Finally to all grain. Kept that simple too with BIAB. Incidently my favorite beers were all Belgian styles, German hefe wiesen, and English & Irish stouts...milk & chocolate & Scottish wee heavy and smoked porters. Cheers.

[@TheBruSho]

Excellent experiment Martin, would love to see more split batch stuff like this!

[@TheSidnelson]

Great experiment! I have been brewing in a cheap fermentor for more than 3 years now, and my biggest wish is a fancy fermentor like the one u got :) I would love to see a test pretty much like this one, however with a beer with dry hop, where the hops are the main characters, because as far as I studied, the strongest point in using closed transfer is to preserve the aromas and flavors from the hops

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

That would be a good test.

[@GraveFable25]

To add to this, it would also be interesting to see how these 2 hoppy beers would change over time. Would one lose aroma faster? Oxidise more?

[@mongo4048]

It would be interesting to compare an isothermal mash with an infusion mash of 3 steps. 🤔

[@alanfiddament1735]

You compared processes not fermenters . I use a blowoff tube to a tee with a balloon and blowoff jar. Place Fermonster in a temp controlled fridge. You can do a sealed transfer or I usually purge the keg with CO2 then transfer the beer without splashing the beer as CO2 is heavy and will protect the beer from most of the oxygen. I love the channel and have enjoyed watching your brews

[@patrickbruske5488]

I really enjoy your videos. This video was a comparison of temp control vs no temp control more so then comparing fermentation vessel types. You could have easily hooked that freezer up to a temp controller and taped & insulated the temp probe to the side of the plastic fermenter. You could have also most likely pulled off a pressure transfer using a $10 carbonation cap and small piece of hose going though the bung. The video showed how convenient the expensive conical makes things, though the plastic fermenter could have pulled off the same conditions if paired with a mini fridge or freezer, a $35 temp controller, and a $10 carbonation cap setup.

[@basweny1]

This test is more about temp control vs non-temp control. Many great brewers have made great beer in plastic fermentors, but temperature control will set them apart. This argument can be made with water quality. Great video I really enjoyed reading the comments.

[@ninkasihomebrewer8226]

Thanks 😊

[@NikitaVorontsov]

Great video aside, your thumbnail game is fantastic! Big fan of the simplicity

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

😆 thanks Nikita

[@jornsorensen3647]

I would like to see you compare cheap vs Expensive brew equipment . By that I mean use a Drinks cooler for a mashtun ,no hop basket, no water treatment and still use cheap vs expensive Fermenters. Beer of choice Amber Ale Other than that, This was a great Video that showed how different a beer could taste and even smell by just using a controlled fermentation temperature. I suppose its all about yeast health. I'm Personally waiting to upgrade from cheap to something better. Started Brewing in September 2020 still using a 50L Urn , Drinks Cooler and Plastic Bucket. Made over 1600L of beer since then. My father and I brew every Sunday and love the unique tastes compared to Commercial brews. Thanks for the video, You got me into brewing and your videos have helped a lot. Keep up the great work. Regards Jorn Sorensen Durban, South Africa

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

1600L of beer!!

[@Leo99929]

I think a heavily dry hopped pale ale should show a bigger difference between the fermenters, especially if that clear fermenter is anywhere near a window.

[@larmckenna]

You can closed transfer using those plastic fermenter. I've done plenty on my fermonster. Just use gravity as normal and some appropriately sized gasoline to fit on the hole in your bung. Keep it to about 1-2 psi. That may help with the darker colour in case there was a touch of oxidation.

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Yeah I do think the darker color was probably a sign of oxidation

[@zeddicus1980]

Great video again Martin! Stands to show that you can make great beers with cheap equipment :) As for another blind test, I would suggest a lager brewed with a classic lager yeast vs a lutra. I heard that many struggle to tell them apart.

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

I’ve heard the same but not done much with Lutra yet

[@GraveFable25]

I recently did a lutra pseudo and while it came out great, fast and clean, I don't think I'd ever confuse it with an actual lager. It was a very pale beer though, perhaps with more malt character it would be easier to confuse them.

[@krisiglehart3061]

I do not have a conical yet, so when I keg, I purge the keg with Co2 then start the transfer and periodically add Co2 while filling the keg.

[@ElementaryBrewingCo]

Super fun experiment Martin! Thanks for sharing!!

[@JusBrewing]

Awesome video as usual! Blind Taste Tests are fun (literally just uploaded another one) give it a go! I like to do test local popular beers to support them but you could even blind taste test old unlabeled beer!

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Oh I like it. Here’s an unlabeled beer. Guess the style.

[@dmac3603]

Love the comparison vids. How about same beer with different flaked adjuncts?

[@liquidgold2735]

i like this idea. Like flaked barley vs flaked rye vs flaked wheat

[@andresebastianmoreno]

First: The clear fermenter means the wort is going to get lightstruck before the ferment is done unless it is kept in the dark or wrapped with a cover. That means ethyl mercaptan production and possible skunkiness. Second: If put in an insulated container, the clear fermenter will generate its own heat, using ice packs and rotating them twice daily will counterbalance the heat production and you may be able to get temps in the high 60s to low 70s without a chiller or temperature controller. Amber plastic would be better, but the only one I know of is the Coopers DIY Mr. Beer LBK (Little Brown Keg) fermenter. If you can tolerate it only being a 2 gallon fermenter for micro batches, it has an awesome vented screw on lid cap that eliminates the need for an airlock.

[@CascadesHomebrew]

Great content. I moved from glass carboys to Fermonster fermenters and it was a huge upgrade. The low cost let me get 4 of different sizes. I have one stainless brew bucket, and I miss not being able to see what is going on with the beer. I would note that you can do temp control with a cheap fermenter, and you can do closed transfers too. I do both, and I even might know somebody with a video on doing a closed transfer with a Fermonster! Since you have equipment to control mash temps, I would love to see some experiments in that area. 149F vs 156F. Consistent temp vs wrapping in a blanket. Step mash vs single temp. Etc.

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

I did enjoy seeing the fermentation in the plastic fermenter… it’s been a long time since I could watch that.

[@samdt9671]

Grab some old kegs - fantastic frementer vessles and you can boil to sterilize. Orange carboy caps slip over the top nicely. Ultimately though temperature control is key - a stc, an old fridge and a lightbulb will get you there on the cheap.

[@Jay_Schmidt]

one of the things that you pay for with your better setup is consistency. getting the same beer twice with a cheap setup is going to be more difficult.

[@matsy1000]

There is no end to ole gunners skills

[@timothyshank3208]

Another idea is a higher gravity beer that has a secondary fermentation or a bulk aging period like you might do with an imperial stout. The longer time in those fermenters would make differences more comparable, I would think

[@ryjustsz]

This might be a hard experiment to pull off but think be kind of cool to see precisely how much time in the boil the hop editions make. Like we all know that 60 minute hops and 1 minute hops make the beer taste really different. But what about 60 minute compared to 50 minute 50 minute to 40 minute 60 to 40. How far away from 60 minutes do you have to go before the taste makes a difference? Also could work the other way, how far away from flame out do you have to get before the taste makes a difference?

[@hemavol6449]

Basic brewing guys has done this kind of experiment in their podcast. Not in these intervals, but lf i remember correctly it was like 60min, 30min, 15min, 0min or something like that. 60min and 30min they could not tell apart from each other.. but closer to the "aroma time" compared to 60min it was more clear difference. But listen to the episode yourself.

[@dennislnbrewing]

you could always increase your mash thickness too. I've had great results with thicker mashes for high gravity beers.

[@deckerhand12]

I have the anvil conical and I love it.

[@jumpjasper5276]

Ha! ,ive done the same. I cant tell the difference. I also use baking soda on my plastic fermenter’s after using starsan. So Mabey thats the secret

[@brewido]

T90 hops vs cryo in dryhop adjusted for concentration

[@MeirbhinOConaill]

This evening I've only just learned about Yorkshire square fermentors. I don't think there can be a comparison, but if your comparing systems..... by all accounts the West Yorkshire yeast 1469 is top rated in todays rabbit hole of British ale brewing

[@workhardplayhard801]

You can blanket the corny with nitrogen or carbon dioxide prior to transfer. Doing so will keep majority of the air out . The volume exchange gas for liquid will push the gas out as it fills which keeps the flow outward preventing air from entering . Same when filling bottles.

[@egruber50]

Great video

[@Jango1989]

Great experiment.

[@peterswatton7400]

In cooler areas you can stand your cheap fermenter in a bin full of water heated with an aquarium heater and closed transfer to a keg is no problem.

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Love it! A call back to the first video I ever saw of yours! It'd be a cool challenge to try to clone a beer so well he can't tell the difference. Cheers guys!

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Yeah it would - have never been able to get very close with clones.

[@HopsANDgnarly]

@@TheHomebrewChallenge Martin, similar but different idea. Which one is non-alcoholic? I've been having a lot of fun experimenting with NA recipes!

[@robertscott6615]

Great video!

[@simonmoran67]

Nice vid. Sticking to cheap here in Kyoto. ¥500 open pickling tub, fish tank heater. Pop round for a taste test 🙂

[@Over_Toasted]

Cheap vs. expensive sour ale (your choice, Lambic, fruit sours, wild ale, farmhouse..etc) and cheap vs. expensive IPA could be interesting. Usually, there are so many flavours going on in those styles that it could be hard to tell cheap vs. expensive fermenters (pending of course that you ferment properly and nothing gets infected or something else goes wrong).

[@kevinwalsh2566]

You can control temp easy with an old fridge and tube heater for cheap solution

[@dominikp7649]

I think that although temperature control gives quite a lot when it comes to off flavors, it is nothing compared to oxidation. I think you should also test this beer after some time, or maybe even in couple intervals. You also kegged the beer from plastic fermenter, which gives very little oxidation. It would be also nice to check the difference between kegged and bottled beer and how they age

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Yeah, I said the same to Norm. I bet the oxidation is more apparent in a few weeks. Alas we will not find out - kegs are dry.

[@grahamnumber7123]

Great to see no bias here and a proper test. Sure we'd all like the fancy stuff but just can't afford it. Least it's a luxury that many won't notice as seen here. What is an ideal room temperature? I am looking to brew in my boiler room which is warmer than most rooms all year round. Trial and error I guess

[@EricVandenAkker]

I'd like to see the beers tried again, after a few months. Let's see what that oxygen exposure did.

[@tonyheron3729]

It’s not really a fair fermenter comparison when you ignored easy ways of levelling the playing fields. It’s very easy and well within most brewers means to have a temperature controlled fermentation chamber, and as has been previously mentioned it is very easy to do a closed transfer with a fermonster. Still a great video though, don’t get me wrong! I’m a fan of same beer, different yeast comparisons. Maybe do a dubbel and split between two different liquid Belgian strains and two dry Belgian strains and see how different they are and which you prefer?

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Yeah same beer different yeasts would be a good one. And I can’t say no to a dubbel.

[@aknorth1053]

I would imagine one big factor not discussed is consistency. It would seem likely that by controlling more variables with the expensive system your beer would be more similiar batch to batch

[@Teh509]

This is cool af, I'm both a home brewer (when I have time) and a professional brewer. Seriously cool video. Might I add, o2 uptake from exposure to atmosphere isn't as high as some people would think given than the beer would have been at room temp and o2 is poorly soluble. The 100-200 ppb that would have been picked up will have an effect in longer term beer storage, but treating the transferred beer to 3-4 co2 pressure purges actively reduces o2 - sometimes by as much as 80ppb in beer - as is is more soluble and osmotic equilibrium will push o2 out of the beer before it has a chance to create flavour threshold compounds if done quickly. Flavour wise the unchecked rise in temp from endothermic activity would allow estery yeast such as Belgian yeast to create more of its signature flavours. Very cool experiment.

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Thank you - really appreciate this explanation. The warmer the fermentation the more ‘Belgiany’ I was expecting.

[@BrewMeister27]

Your dissolved oxygen pickup depends a lot on the agitation during the transfer. I've seen 800 ppb from forgetting to purge a brite tank. And you're correct that pressurizing with CO2 can scrub DO before it oxidizes the beer in any significant way. I design canning lines for the beer industry and have seen counter pressure fillers scrub DO if the can is slightly underfilled. Pretty cool stuff.

[@Teh509]

@@BrewMeister27 Microcan by any chance? lol forgetting to purge before transfer? that's a shitty day right there !

[@BrewMeister27]

@@Teh509 ABE equipment

[@Zumaray]

Hey new to your channel and that was very interesting. There are so many more taste tests that you can do. Sorry if you have already done them. I will go looking very soon. But: same brew recipe - different base malt same brew recipe - split batch with different yeasts (liquid vs dry etc) same brew - maximum vs minimum pitched against company’s suggested pitch rate for the same yeast same brew recipe - 3V vs BIAB vs single vessel same brew recipe - different water profiles (adapted vs plain) same brew recipe - sparge vs no sparge Man I have lots more too

[@Leo99929]

A lager would be interesting without temperature control. W34/70 has been shown to produce good lagers at ale fermentation temperatures.

[@johancederholm5074]

Love these tests Martin! Since you're a coffee guy I think a cheap vs expensive coffee in a coffee-forward stout would be a great comparison. Coffees with similar roast would be preferable! Cheers!!

[@smurface549]

I'm torn apart what to say. One part if me is yelling "what the F... does it matter? I have only a cheap fermzilla, and I have to live with what's coming out of that". The other part of me is yelling "why do I even care? As long as the beer tastes well, I'll finish it anyway". And the third part of me is seeing that nice stainless steel fermenter and yelling "shut up and take my money!" But I'd be interested in seeing what can be done with a small upgrade to the cheap fermenter that doesn't completely break the bank. E.g. using a ferminator for temperature control, but still have the cheap fermenter with open transfer etc. Or the reverse, have a fermzilla with pressure transfer, but the good old "basement temperature control method" (go with whatever temperature you have in your basement). Cause most of us will start with a very basic system, and eventually upgrade it a few times until its capabilities suffice. The question is, how far do we have to go? And which upgrade brings the most bang for the buck? Of course, if I do my own homebrew challenge and know I quickly get into a three-digit number of brews, I probably spend more money for other reasons as well. How easily can I clean the equipment, how convenient is it to use etc, but that's a different topic.

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Ooooh, stainless!!

[@Leo99929]

Bottle conditioned vs keg conditioned would be interesting. Carbonation levels in bottle conditioned can be tricky, and often leads to yeast in your glass because you have to pour it carefully. Also on a hoppy pale ale you might get oxidative issues if you leave it long enough (6 weeks to months).

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Cool idea.

[@jamesmoretti4847]

You could always do a blind fold test to see if you can pick out a normal stout Vs a white stout (basically a blonde with chocolate and coffee in secondary fermentation)

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Oooh yeah

[@tonguetwistjake6919]

Damn, I never thought I could click the first like on any video, and I got to do it on this! Which just makes it even better since I've been keenly (haha...) following your homebrew journey and developing my own homebrew skills by learning so much from your videos. I guess all I want to say is: Hey Martin, thanks for existing!

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Thanks so much!

[@TheMortgageBrewer]

Really fun video. Maybe do a comparison with yeast…make a starter for one and not the other.

[@uwesumser1276]

i have the grainfather conical fermenter and the results with top fermenting yeasts are pretty good. Before I used plastic fermenters and I had no control of the temperature.

[@manueljulianrodriguez1705]

I'm still waiting the lambic and flanders red video

[@fifis101]

That is bloody gold!

[@stanggangchannel]

Man I was pulling for both of you to get this one so I could convince my wife why I needed to spend the money. You may have ruined my chance.

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Lol

[@cohoanglervancouverwa6755]

It’s never about the equipment. It’s about the skill of the brewer. An expensive, complex system can be difficult to use. There is value in simplicity.

[@richadams881]

Chest freezer Fermentation chamber cost about $250 to make.

[@Ghonosyphlaids]

Love the test series!

[@RussInGA]

yea.. there is a lot of range in between what you did with the cheap and what you did with the expensive. Some temp control for the cheap method.. yea not free but lots of options. Then purge the keg with co2 before draining into the keg with the cheap. I love all the gear but with good practices and some effort the cheap can match the quality of the expensive setup. the results of your tests were interesting and fun! thanks!

[@Ridenour64]

Enjoyed the video but the “cheap beer” also suffered from oxygen ingress from the cold crash which was a bit unfair for comparing the fermenters. (Unless you did something to address that off video)

[@kadendoyle6774]

Factors depends oh how well they cleaned them and the recipe because some things can react differently with metals. This is why all lab equipment is some type of glass or that ptfe I think that type of plastic is called

[@kricketdude]

Keep these comparisons going !!

[@TheAlchemistsBrewery]

Great exbeeriment!

[@TheHomebrewChallenge]

Lol. We are not Brulosophy 😎

[@fifis101]

I have recently been in a debate of the source of the traditional "homebrew" smell/taste that we all know of. I swear that it comes from bottle carbonating. I bottle carbed for 10+ years and always seemed ot have this flavour in some aspect but since moving to kegs a year ago I haven't had it. Some say it's what you get for making rookie beer but I used to use temperature control as well as squeeze all the air of the plastic bottles before capping. I would love to hear your thoughts on it and it would be a great taste comparison for you to do.

[@davidbeiler6364]

i made a west coast IPA a couple weeks ago, im going to do it again everything the same way, except change my caramal crystal from a light 15-17 levibond to crystal 60