CFMoto 800 MT - Lessons Learned

[@Fpn2005]

It is the best bike I’ve owned, I’m 6’1 about 90kgs, and it feels like an extension of my body. I’ve had it for about 2 years now, it runs and looks beautiful. It kicks the daylights out of the Suzuki’s I’ve had.

[@marcusgeorge1825]

Hi Andy, as a person who owned a CFmoto 8 years ago, living in Melbourne and for over 4 years I had absolutely nothing go wrong with it. I’m also someone who has lived in various places in China with a total of over 40 trips spanning 3 decades. The temperature extremes and conditions in Shanghai (as one example) has colder winters and as hot in summer as similar to Melbourne (just much more humidity). I’ve also spent 2 months on one of these and had zero problems as you have described (including working out what I thought was a simple display to change). Plus, as they have been building bikes for the locals who don’t take anywhere near as top care as you do they still stand the test of time. One last HUGE positive for Australian buyers is the price. Using the exchange rate today it works out to be £7,143 ride away, nothing more to pay. I’ve seen Triumphs and some Japanese bikes develop signs of wear from using cheaper parts. On a final note, I’ve also visited their main manufacturing facility and you could literally eat of the floor. Doubt you could say that with other brands. They have an enormous amount of money behind them and are aiming to be recognised as a substantial brand. The scary part for everything made in China is they no longer need to pay expats to learn from which is a massive shift in a relatively short amount of time. Just remember where most things you own have actually been made or at the very least have parts from. China.

[@specialcircs]

Nice to have a reasoned, knowledgeable perspective for a change, coming from actual experience.

[@zweispurmopped]

"On a final note, I’ve also visited their main manufacturing facility and you could literally eat of the floor." Ah-Hah!!1! So they had food lying around all over the place!!1! 🤨

[@marcusgeorge1825]

@@zweispurmopped 🤣🤣🤣 tasty though.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Thanks Marcus - a refreshing alternative perspective to the usual (expected) stuff....

[@firestorm755]

Great response and very encouraging

[@bigmac906]

Got 40000km on mine mate. Awesome bike. The settings are easy to find. Neutral no problem. 1 of the best bikes I've owned.

[@peakrider4886]

Cheers for the review Andy. These are incredible value for money, seen them reduced to something like £6799 starting price. Number 1 on my negative list isn’t that it’s Chinese, it’s that it’s KTM! I would not buy this model until I think they have addressed the excessive camshaft wear problem, and I mean properly investigated it and fixed it, not the pathetic response given to MCN and bury the head in the sand attitude which seems to be their current strategy. At the end of the day, a 5 year old Versys 1000 is this sort of money, and I’d have one of those above this any day of the week.

[@ronfeast932]

Lack of Carbon in the metal reason for failure and oil distribution an issue too.

[@nigelk780]

i would agree with this and I currently have two KTM,s

[@jamiehalifax4954]

@@ronfeast932 cfmoto changed the head design to allow for more oil ..

[@jamiehalifax4954]

Its a big help to read the manual to learn to operate the screen..im 62 and figured it out pretty fast

[@richyrara]

Im currently in Greece, which is crawling with CF Moto quad bikes and has been for many years. I asked the owner of one of the rental companies if its easy to source spares. He laughed and said whatever he needs it arrives a day later...and thats on a Greek island! The bike youre reviewing though has the made in China KTM engine with the cam shaft issues (as featured in this week's MCN). That would be enough to put me off. That and the fact they're just fairly average bikes (albeit good value for new), and for 9k you could get a lovely second hand multistrada, tiger 1200, Tracer 9GT etc. Which are just waaaaaay better bikes.

[@ThePerfectOwnage]

I would love to see you make a video about the 450 NK/MT though. That engine is just something else in that class of bikes.

[@Biggles83]

These bikes up close look top notch. 4 year warranty too. The bike Sanctuary in Milton Keynes have the full range and they are all very impressive! I’m a newly converted fan

[@maskedavenger2578]

All my bikes have quick shifters , it’s my left boot & correct use of a clutch & throttle . 😎👍

[@daddystu7046]

No need for the clutch once beyond 2nd. Just offload that engine and gently nudge it up - ergo quickshifter.

[@robertandersson2523]

I find qs most valuable when downshifting during trail braking in to a turn with back brake applied. ABS off.

[@maskedavenger2578]

@@daddystu7046 The clutch is there for a reason , there is no reason not to use it , you’re going for ride not a race .

[@maskedavenger2578]

@@robertandersson2523 I don’t go on trails , don’t see the point in a developed country with an abundance of paved roads. Why would you ride on poor unpaved surfaces causing excess premature wear on bike & your body, when there are proper surfaced & smoother roads to ride on ?

[@mickemmett6828]

@@maskedavenger2578 Clearly you don't like finding out of the way places uncluttered by the usual nose to tail traffic jams, nobody bothering you and fantastic peaceful views.

[@jameshales6958]

Hello Andy, some great comments/feedback on this video. I’ve spent some time in various cities in China related to my aviation career and I was very impressed with their productivity, quality and housekeeping in their hangars. However, I’m retired now and prefer to stick with bikes with proven reliability from Japan and Germany. None of my bikes have ever let me down and only required regular servicing. The search for Neutral would drive me nuts.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Yes me too!

[@125ZJK]

Great summing up review . I'm old enough to remember the reaction to Japanese bikes when they first appeared en masse. Now look at the UK bike market. If its good quality & value for money , why not .😊

[@FarmerGraham-dg9rf]

I have just ridden my 650 MT 4500km around Outback NSW. Performed well, only thing I did was adjust the chain at 3500 and lube it everyday. I had one flat tyre and hit an emu. Its now got 15500 km on it. No problems, everything stayed tight. Comfortable to ride.

[@cliveomahoney4096]

Goodness, how things can change in a month! The (probably) biggest selling point for the bike was the KTM derived engine - not any more, methinks, given Cam-gate and the Co's wholly inadequate response. Excellent vid, in any case!

[@mickemmett6828]

No problems getting neutral for me, menu is easy once you get used to it, set takes you to the inner menus, a press on the up/down button moves you within the menu you are in, if you want to move onto the next menu then you press and hold the up/down arrows, obviously as you found out; if you press the back arrow button above "set" then it will take you back. Yes! the quick shifter is pants and there's no way on the "Sport" and "Touring" versions you can't turn it off, I believe you can on the Explore version. I find the fuelling at low revs is not too good and the bike is very jerky/lumpy if the revs get below 3,500. The Explore seems to have a lot more than just a rear traffic warning sensor and a bigger TFT but those two things are all the reviewers tell you about, I may have gone for an explore but couldn't see an extra 3 grand in just those two extra items, perhaps I should have done more research into the other extra things the Explore has before deciding on the Touring version. I've never had an 800 twin before so maybe they are all pretty lumpy at low revs, I am comparing it to my GoldWing and my GS1200 which is probably a little unfair on the 800MT.

[@HelmetLawSux]

@@mickemmett6828 yeah finding neutral is smooth... not sure why he got problem finding it

[@brianholland8290]

I have the benelli trk 702x and neutral is easy to find. the gears and clutch are silky smooth i only paid £6450 for mine with 1000mls on the clock just run in. no quick shifter no fancy tft to navigate no heated seat or grips. but can be added if you want at purchase i dont need them im well happy with my purchase at the price ive paid. i ride everywere two up with the wife on the back we both love it for both comfort and handling. best investment ive made for that money with the warranty included it pulls great and is perfect for real world speeds and touring. im well looking forward to the nc500 on a couple of weeks two up loaded with luggage its made for it cant fault it so far. time will tell but the chinese have well and truly improved and catched up the competition with these new bikes and pound for pound value is unbeatable. some push bikes cost £6450 these days whats not to like. keep up the good work im still waiting for you to try out the trk 702X Andy love watching your reviews 👌👍🏍💨

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Delighted to hear that Brian - thank you.

[@whatstrue1481]

As a very happy owner of a CFMOTO 800MT that has done several 5000km + adventure rides through some harsh Australian regions I can only say this bike is excellent and I have owned a lot of bikes including all the "brand" names. I have had no gearbox or quick shifter issues at all so maybe yours just needs more run in time? The ultimate test of a bike is to ask an owner if they would buy another one and my answer would be definitely - and after I have purchased my second one I would still have spent less money than purchasing just one of the brand name alternatives. 👍

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Delighted to hear that!

[@marwood1969]

For a lot of folk, the whole question of Chinese bikes is multifaceted. If they are making a competitive machine at such a low cost, somebody is paying. There is no such thing as free, so the money is coming from someplace. This makes me wonder how level the playing field is. Maybe it is level-ish, but who knows. Secondly, these bikes are simply facsimiles of bikes made elsewhere that have heritage and history. Obviously, you can't just get heritage and history overnight and it will take time but that's an important issue for many people. The Japanese had to go through that pain barrier themselves. Then you have the whole unmentionable issues relating to certain world changing events from a few years ago and their political regime too. I get it, that we can't avoid buying Chinese in one way or another; this is evidently the case, but many people might no wish to do it quite so overtly. It's each to their own ultimately, but what you can't inject into one of these bikes is racing heritage, memories, passion and history. If you don't care about these things then great, but many people do and will pay for it.

[@derekm6236]

The American T-shirt & motorcycle company has parts made in China, as do BMW. Triumph have bikes built in Thailand. These companies just add high profits to make their products "premium". It's not a question of "low cost, who's paying", it's low cost, but who's getting the benefit and for the "premium" machines, it's not the customer..

[@dandersonjr]

My thoughts exactly.

[@marwood1969]

@@derekm6236 I think you'll find it's not either/or but both/and.

[@JDWDMC]

Very easy to keep labor costs down when you can just imprison people and make them work 16 hour days for free.

[@marwood1969]

@@JDWDMC Yes, indeed. And the CCP also heavily subsidise industry which will also reduce the prices artificially.

[@ricatiman]

Back in 1970, I quit motocross and bought the then new to Canada CB750 Honda, my second of many Japanese bikes. I recall a lot of people telling me that the Japanese bikes were just a flash in the pan and would prove unreliable and difficult to maintain, and dealers would be of low quality. Not So! Here we go again. Most of the electronics I have bought in the last 10 years were made in China, and I have seen no issues whatsoever, with anything Chinese made. Provided the politicians allow us, I see plenty of quality Chinese motorcycles in the near future. Obviously not Ducati quality, but certainly Triumph. They also need to copy Kawasaki's positive neutral finder.

[@dutchdryfly]

@@ricatiman Ducati quality? You must be a comedian using Ducati and quality in one sentence

[@LTVoyager]

@@dutchdryflyYes, I almost spit out my coffee reading that one.

[@CaptHollister]

They already copy Kawasaki. The mechanical bits in CFMoto's 650 Adventura is pretty much a clone of the Kawasaki Versys 650.

[@ddorko]

The 650 and 700 motors CFMOTO is using are licensed clones of the Kawi 650 engine. I imagine there were stipulations that didn't allow them to implement the positive neutral feature.

[@CaptHollister]

@@ddorko Clones ? yes. Licensed ? no. CF Moto does not have any license agreement with Kawasaki.

[@ianhalliwell8604]

You mentioned how good the engine is and yet listening to Freddie Dodds he was telling us how these KTM engines are famous for having weak and failing cam shafts. A problem which Social media says doesn't just affect a few but is far more serious than KTM will admit. This alone would put me off owing any bike featuring this engine, KTM or Chinese.

[@mickleblade]

And it sounds like KTM shaft customers too

[@bob521i]

I wouldn't let Dobbs tell me the time!

[@mbrunskill]

It was in MCN last week, metal not up to scratch that the cams are made from

[@cthulhurising4860]

@bob521i, he was just reading posts from KTM owners & noting a correlation, not offering consumer advice

[@LewisClayton-l7n]

Morning. Great review as always. I can from riding my mates Explore say that the quick shift and neutral get far better with use. He’s had his a few months now and it’s great. 👍

[@andywharam59]

Good morning Andy & Carol🌅hope you’re all well, I have spent many hours on KZbin watching & listening to the views both in America & the UK, regarding 2023 & #024 models of CF Moto bikes with lots of praise & enthusiasm for the NK 450, the 450 SRS, the 650 NK, the 800 NK, after all they all come with a 4 year parts & labour warranty & 1 years Road Side assistance! And they are prices lower than their Japanese equivalents,So I believe they offer excellent value for money in the UK Andy😊🏍️

[@khodorALB]

Hello TMF, many thanks for the efforts and upload mate. Your disclaimer slide's duration was little longer this time, i was able to pause from the first time :D. i have a few comments (from an owner): one thing to note, am not paid or sponsoring anyone: i like the newcomers, especially if they are providing good value products and that is one of the reasons i bought it, and i do provide feedback about any observations and ensure they go to the factory people. this is how support, but i digress, back to comments: 1. you are 100% right about the neutral, when i got the bike brand new, it was fairly easy, but after putting 3k miles, (almost 5 K Km) i found myself in the position, i went back and had them inspect, they knew about it, and it was a matter of adjusting the clutch lever / cable, can be done by owner, very easy. 2. on the menu and finding your way to features, yes, even though i have read the manual, and have the bike for 7 months now, i still find it an issue, and always need to remind myself on how to use the buttons to enter the menu (feedback sent directly to Factory) 3. if i may add, at open speed limit road, the mirrors fold in. 4. the app (at least where i live) has some nice features it is GPS connected and provides some useful information, yesterday i received a message on the app, "long term storage" it means that it has been 10 since i have ridden the bike! app includes navigation

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Thanks for that!

[@khodorALB]

@@TheMissendenFlyer you're welcome and thanks !

[@chrisc6186]

I own the American version the Ibex. Almost a year of owning and over 5k miles. No issues so far. I love the bike and besides a few minor issues which once you get used to them it’s not a big deal. Quick shifter is clunky at low revs. Once you wind it out it’s very smooth. Fueling is snappy but I like that. I would buy another one no questions asked.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Great to hear!

[@7777Gixer]

Hi, greeting from Singapore. I test rode the 800MT some time ago. I had the same conclusions as you. Going through the menu without the manual is not an easy task, the neutral is difficult to find, the bi directional quick shifter is ok but not top notch. What I like about this bike is the package which includes top case and side panniers, crash bars and auxiliary lights and it is still cheaper than the European and Japanese bikes in the market. I will buy one. Not now but another 3 years down the road Whereby I let the bike gets more mature.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

I'm glad we concur!

[@Jonathan-yd8ud]

2 of these back into our workshop with cam shaft problems the last month. They do come with a 4 year warranty though so not all bad.

[@jamiehalifax4954]

@@Jonathan-yd8ud how many kilometers on the bikes with camshaft troubles.. And you say at your workshop..?? Santa's workshop? Cfmoto dealership perhaps ? And what country are you in ? Maybe the bikes at your mystery shop were owned by assholes who never changed the oil from initial break in..

[@shortattentionspangarage1312]

@@jamiehalifax4954 Yup, proof or it didn't happen.

[@Sir_Revsalot]

Mine has a major cam shaft issue at 5k miles... It has warranty yes but 9 weeks I had not bike as a replacement wasn't given.

[@jamiehalifax4954]

@@Sir_Revsalot ..really..what year is yours ?

[@jamiehalifax4954]

@@Sir_Revsalot did the dealer blame your after market exhaust ?

[@colinhailey830]

CFMoto have been in Australia for about 18 years selling Scooters, UTVs, Motorbikes, they have a fairly good reputation for reliability. Here in Aus a lot of our "stuff" is made in China and the quality these days is pretty good. Many big brand names have gear that is made in China and the China brand names have learnt from the others. (My Fender amp and guitar, my Apple computer, phone and iPad, all made in China.) More and more of their cars and bikes are appearing on our roads with little buyer resistance now that their quality had been proven. Main problem seems to be that adequate dealer and servicing netwerks need to be established, but that applies to all brands.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Yes good points all round - thanks for watching and for stopping by!

[@DatOldeBiker]

Thank you Mr. Flyer. I appreciate you reviewing the lesser known brands along with the popular manufacturers. As always you give a comprehensive and "no-nonsense" but light-hearted blog which I always find very interesting and informative. I hope those troublesome joints of yours are improving. Happy motoring! :>)

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Thank you for the kind words - sadly the opposite of improvement :0(

[@DatOldeBiker]

@@TheMissendenFlyer I'm sorry to hear that. I'm also still unable to ride (or do anything too physical) atm but hopeful for improvement to come :>/

[@pedrowarior]

Test drove one and was almost set on getting it before trying but I couldn’t get along with the throttle, not sure if it was an issue with the one i tried but it was the worst throttle I ever used on a motorcycle, always lurching, sometimes it had delay other times it jumped forward with a small input. Overall I couldn’t live with it, a shame cause I liked everything else and as soon as you started increasing the pace the throttle got smother and the engine responded quite well

[@andydale8743]

Very informative and honest review, keep up the great work 👍

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Thanks, will do!

[@dans2971]

It isn’t WHERE it’s made, it comes down to build quality. That’s not just the quality of the parts, but also the skill and attitude of the people in the company. The Chinese may ‘build’ a lot of stuff that goes into ostensibly Western goods, but it’s the Western company running the show, and setting the tone. An all Chinese company will need to work hard to shed the deserved reputation of poor quality that the Chinese have been saddled with. It’s not about being ‘anti-Chinese’, it’s about being ‘anti-poor quality’.

[@kohrsthomas]

"your pausing skills" Love it!! LOVE your Informations and Love your testing skills. Thanks for the Clips! Greetings from Germany. 😱🤯😂

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Thank you very much!

[@pistolpete6321]

I’m not sure KTM + Chinese Company = Reliability but it does have a good warranty which = some piece of mind! Great video!

[@R-Tap]

It's a good looking bike. Nice colourway and the wheels make it pop. Looks value for money. That "N" problem would probably put me off after a test drive.

[@garryclarke-kray4071]

As you said time will tell but I really hope it can last the test of time , it looks a great bike for the money

[@roybatty2030]

Nice review, thanks. I had real trouble finding neutral on my Tuono when it was new but I was told it would improve with use and after a few miles, the problem completely disappeared.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Great to hear!

[@wattyler6075]

Makes me chuckle about the 'agricultural' quick shifter. When you engaged first on my 1978 Harley super glide,it was a bit like the opening salvoes @ the battle of the Somme. Listen to the Fatboy that Arnie rides in judgement day,when gets on it & rides off. My GT750 I had before the Harley had a really smooth gearbox which only needed the clutch on first gear.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Yes well Harley's are in a league of their own when it comes to "character".....

[@johnsamson-snell9558]

The camshaft issue is the biggest red flag for me. I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole!

[@daveramsay8887]

CF's cams are OK. KTM ones are shyte. Just sold my 790R, failed cams head and followers replaced at 23,000klm. And here's this bloke questioning CF. He has given glowing reviews of the KTM twins. Mates got 90,000 on his 800CFmoto. He is a captured influencer. No cred. Not a rider.

[@mj_aussie_coaster_travels8310]

The cfmoto runs a different head and cam design to the problematic ktm 790s

[@jonomasonILoveU]

KTM have addressed the cam shaft issues just recently and also extended the warranty, kTm are dedicated.

[@CCooke-nm2be]

@@jonomasonILoveU 😂

[@andycapp8843]

@@daveramsay8887 many KZbinrs run out of steam, ideas and originality and in this case one or all may apply, depends on the viewer. I thought the negatives were petty, especially the neutral and screen. Little point in expressing an opinion on something you know nothing at all about, such as longevity, an unknown quantity and a comment for the sake of something to say. When you have a bike for two weeks, essential to put miles on the clock, put the suspension to work for instance , not just a road with a few undulations. Guilty of making a video for the sake of continuing the income stream from YT and other sponsors. I have a Voge 650, single cylinder thumper, for what I paid it is incredible value for money and can’t fault it. When in traffic neutral was a challenge until I thought about it over a coffee and remembered a piece of advice given some years ago….just pull the lever sufficient enough to slightly to disengage the clutch. Never had a problem since and a reminder that before making a comment on a machine, get to know it well beforehand. Voge are bringing the 900 to the Uk shores and based on the 650 quality, it’s well worth giving it a good coat of looking at.

[@GiantmanUK]

Great vid,bike looks great and goes well

[@speedfinder1]

Given the "overall package" it is definitely well worth considering. You can ruin anything with enough abuse and lack of maintenance! I will take a guess here and say that nicely cared for examples will be still on the roads for many years to come. On balance, I think you are spot on with your review. If you are "Put off" by the thought of owning a bike or part of a bike made in China, think about this, chances are, you already do! The device you are reading this on was made there!

[@mbrunskill]

Until that KTM cam fails

[@DesmondBorcherds]

Rode a Chinese bike for 5 years. Totally reliable at all times. Mine was also difficult to find neutral for the first 10 000 Km, then the box smoothed out and was then easy to find neutral. Mine did not havs a quick shifter.

[@davidforsdike4343]

Think the best judge of quality is resale value. You may be better financially to get a non chinese brand. Most do still manufacture in far east. Eg. Triumph, BMW and KTM.

[@mickemmett6828]

But if you buy them at half the price of a well known brand equivalent you can afford to sell it for less and still be in front.

[@richardcoxon8956]

On face value a good bike and great value for money.. I'd be concerned over residual value though for sure.. For similar money it's hard to pick one of these over the Honda Transalp, currently with discount and accessories on offer..

[@jonwoodworker]

I'm a Chinesium hater, but I would choose this over the Talp. The Talp has garbage suspension and needs to be rev'd high to make power. Both are key elements for an adventure bike.

[@richardcoxon8956]

OK. Fair point. I've not ridden either so am not speaking from personal experience. Spoken to people who have transalps, none mentioned a lack of low down grunt but suspension yes budget!

[@markfranks1329]

If Transalp's are discounted with accessories thrown in, one has to ask, why?🤔

[@richardcoxon8956]

​@@markfranks1329most manufacturers seem to have deals on and talking to my local ones none of them sold as many new bikes this year as they budgeted.. Weather? Cost of living? Interest rates? But is how it is..

[@travisboam9612]

Another excellent and upfront review 😊 Looks like a perfectly good bike and a great value! If someone wants to park one in my garage and pay my bills, I'll take it on an RTW to prove the durability 😁

[@antonoat]

I had a Triumph 1200 Tiger which had an absolute dog of a gearbox, after repeated attempts Triumph couldn't sort it so I got rid, this can happen to any brand and it may just be the example you have which needs looking at! I think this bike is a cracking offering, I'd buy one, there are few bikes these days which offer true value for money !

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Yes it could well just be this bike - although a few others have reported similar finding neutral issues....

[@ArthAnsgar]

I've got the 450SS (450SR outside the US), and the shifting was stiff and a tad rough when it was new. However, 3k miles later, it has broken in beautifully and is smooth as butter now. The 450 doesn't have a quick shifter, so it isn't an exact comparison, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being a similar situation with the 800MT.

[@motocrusader72]

Great review. I’m a hard “no” for a CHICOM bike.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Fair enough....

[@stevenwatling3160]

Over the years I have had trouble finding neutral on many bikes, often the air cooled variety and usually after a hot run. I find that turning the engine off makes neutral easier to select( if you're searching for neutral your usually stationary so no problem.

[@leefisher712]

Thank you Andy for a honest review. I hope that the new wave of Chinese bikes are accepted hole heartedly. That way it will force the Japanese, Indian, Austrian and British manufacturers to offer better value for money bikes. We have a Chinese owned bike brand here in New Zealand ,Moto Morini a brand of Italian motorcycles that have always struggled whoever owned them, they are a wonderfully specced bike similar to the CFMoto Chinese build quality, excellent componentry, Brembo, KYC, Bosch etc... and eagerly priced. However I have yet to see one on the roads. They are lacking in dealerships. The Chinese are coming of age and are bringing excellent items to the market.

[@pieterrossouw8596]

People will criticize Chinese manufacturers when it comes to cars, bikes etc. and not realise how many of their "American made" or "German made" stuff is actually just assembled locally. China is the world's premiere manufacturing country; you can lament that fact if you want but it's simply a reality that most of the "quality" brands are also backed by Chinese manufacturing.

[@razorwired130]

The clunky trans would put me off for now - but they get it fixed - I’m on it! Perfect stablemate for a Goldwing Tour DCT.

[@neillambton4065]

Great vid as usual Andy, some very good points made regarding the TFT, i`ve always hated too much tech, both on bikes, and in cars, it`s just not needed, and if you spend time looking at a menu on a screen, it`s no better than looking at a mobile phone. Basically, the more tech you have, the more expensive it becomes, and there`s more things to go wrong. I`m no fan of adventure bikes, but if i was going to buy one, it would be the Triumph 660 Tiger, i just wish they did a no tech option, just have the very basic. I totally agree about reliability and longevity, all the major manufacturers have a tried and tested history in building quality bikes, so only time will tell.

[@drewiliffe4855]

Wait until you get the Explore version. Slightly updated engine with a bit less power (3kw) but smoother. Much better dash and switch blocks with Apple Carplay. Quick shifter gets better when run in but is best when you are higher in the rev range. Cam shaft design is improved over the KTM design. I love mine (Australia) but a bit top heavy. Not much Chinese with KTM engine and frame, KYB suspension and Bosch electronics. I wanted a 800 Vstrom but no cruise or tubeless tyres and having maps on the dash with full music controls on the switch blocks is next level. Hopefully you get the Explore soon.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Yes I didn’t realise it was so different!

[@MTBrider26]

curious to know how 'the cam shaft design is improved over the KTM'?

[@tomsung2956]

So annoying it’s rip off Britain again! The Explore is 16k Aussie dollars which is under £9k albeit I don’t think they include the luggage. Add the luggage on its £10k not £12k that they are charging.

[@mototoboy253]

Well said…6000 kms on my explore and no issues apart from how awesome the features are compared to say the vstrom 800 which comes with …practically nothing 😂 (have owned two in the past). True…resale value might be an issue but I’m planning to ride this to over 100,000 kms at least !. If value for money is what your after you really can’t go wrong and the warrantee should give you peace of mind.

[@drewiliffe4855]

@@MTBrider26 improved oil supply.

[@philliplum3845]

Andy.. Another great review.. Another question is the camshaft issue on the 790 engine...

[@FourIntoOne]

Yes indeed, and KTMs poor handling of this issue is insulting. I wonder how CF moto will be for warranty issues of this type, especially as KTM's stance is deny deny deny

[@geertwanten1841]

@@philliplum3845 no it’s not! It’s not a 1 on 1 ktm engine copy. I own the explorer model.

[@philliplum3845]

@@geertwanten1841 obviously my friend you know more than me on this issue.. But to the outside world it is the same KTM engine except with a different badge. If I was considering buying, the bike sounds fantastic, but how reliable long term.. So although I would consider it, I would look elsewhere..

[@paulmunson3049]

Have you seen the rumours of the 790 ‘chocolate’ cam shaft issues , reliability 😂

[@Dazza-u4c]

CF Moto also make the P twins for 890/901.

[@Dazza-u4c]

CF Moto also makes the p twins for the 890/901 and have since 2023.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Yes a few have mentioned it!

[@daveramsay8887]

@@TheMissendenFlyer But you never mention it. All your reviews of the twins don't mention it. Try selling a second hand 790R, even one with replaced cams, head and followers!. People like you are captured by the manufacturers.

[@garyhope0103]

Another good review of a decent, well priced motorbike. Certainly the looks etc are spot on, and by reading quite a few replies, sounds as if the reliability issues have been answered by a wide selection of people who own, or have owned this, or similar bikes. Like your good self, I'd say the neutral Issues would be a concern to me too. Still, a lot of bike for the price.

[@rockclima]

I was in second thought about my 650 GT CFMOTO but people have commented on mileage, 170,000 km on one model being the highest comments seem to be. 6000km no trouble, and no trouble on many many comments so yes only time will tell as with any bike /car they are incredible value.

[@yorkchris10]

I was just rewinding to a book I read about a traveller on a Douglas from the 1920's. When I started reviewing the bike, I was surprised to find that it had a hand oil pump by the gas tank to keep up oil pressure. It was up to the rider to determine when to pump. It must have been total loss oil system too at that time.

[@andrewhayes4246]

You may not have to wait long for the reliability question, I am reading that KTM are having big issues with chocolate cams and CFMoto use the affected engines. As Toprack says: "we will see".

[@Juergen732]

I want to feel good about myself while owning and riding a motorcycle. For me it is an important part of my life.. I caress and pamper it as if it were my lover or best friend. I get this feeling on my power ranger z400! Somehow, owning a CHINESE bike just wouldn't impart that same pride of ownership and the excitement of riding a motorcycle that one can truly love.

[@seanobrien5520]

Iv got 1400 miles on mine now and the gearbox is butter smooth and no issues getting neutral,, its a really good bike,, fit and finish is top notch much better than my older 1200gs. The bike is getting better with miles .

[@BigFootpl]

When buying chinnese, or small company bikes you need to keep in mind: There is significant probability, that this company will not exist in 5 years. If you buy new, and plan to sell/scrap it after 5 years - You are rather good, and will have nice fun to cost ratio. But if you buy second hand or want to have it for longer - you can end up without spare parts. This bikes value drop like rock in the sea - it's not necessary a bad thing - but you need to calculate if you really are saving money in the long run or you don't have the budget to freeze larger amount of money in a more expensive bike. "Reputable" "old" brands sometimes produce parts for 20-25 year old bikes!

[@SuzukiRiderlv426]

Well, cfmoto isn't new and above that isn't small

[@BigFootpl]

@SuzukiRiderlv426 Yes, that is correct. But in Poland it is very easy to buy CFMoto bike, and they are cheap. But when you need spare parts, that is when things start to get problematic. The crossbrand parts with ktm are easily available, but cfmoto specific can be a challenge. In comparison, my bmw g650gs from 2011. ALL original parts are available in 24h (yes, they are expensive). Many 3rd party parts are also available in 24h. Suzuki sv650, over 20 years and they are still producing OEM and 3rd party parts. If you calculate that you are buying bike for 5-6 years, sell it for nothing or scrap, it can be cheaper than "big name" bike. My point is: you need to take in account what you want, can you freeze your money, for how long you want to use this bike etc.

[@SuzukiRiderlv426]

@@BigFootpl here on the other side of the world, getting parts for kawasaki, suzuki, Honda, yamaha is at least 3 weeks wait time, even for "easy" stuff as break pads. I get what you say but even big established brands have little to no stock, at the end the consumer is the one suffering around

[@BigFootpl]

@SuzukiRiderlv426 so it boils down to that everybody should be conscious consumer, resist the marketing and check what is good for them.

[@SuzukiRiderlv426]

@@BigFootpl yes, investigating before hand spare parts availability is a must nowadays

[@mat314159mat]

A pal has the 800MT, good so far. I on the other side had tft screen issue just when warranty expired (cost an eye). It’s 3 years here. Steel looks ok except lower parts exposed to rock hits, engine material is I would say a bit weaker than Japanese or European castings, beware of ripped thread (1 front sprocket bolt cover was damaged, probably too much torque during factory or dealer’s service I will never know)

[@mac22011964]

Well, I am sure it will stand up better than my 2 year old BMW 1250GS, corrosion on the engine casing, clunky quick shifter, crappy poorly finished plastics. Having seen the CF Moto the components look good including Talon rims and a heavy duty HPE 525 chain. The one I rode had no problem with finding neutral and the quick shifter was a darn sight better than my Beemer costing twice as much.

[@zidisrider]

Does look good though ! I appreciate that they have a large range

[@Metalguitarpete]

Huge depreciation reduces the vfm considerably. BUT I have no doubt Chinese bikes will be mainstream in 5 years

[@jimzenglish1]

The new 2024 800MT Explore is a massive improvement to the model you have around technology, switchgear quality and screen navigation.

[@stuartsharpe5513]

Great looking bikes with everything and Great value 👍

[@billcotton1551]

Did my temperature conversion to Fahrenheit. That is chilly for Summer for sure. The neutral thing would drive me crazy too, TMF.

[@Fishing8136]

Suggestion for Mrs flyer ….Kawasaki Vulcan 650…adjustable bars and footpegs and low low seat😎😙

[@g0fum]

I'd like to know what you think of the 800NK Andy. Have you done a video on riding one and what your positive and negative points are.?

[@thedragon1322]

That issue of finding neutral would be seriously annoying and I wonder if it couldn't just be an adjustment issue? On a positive note, the clarity of that screen is top notch. Just seeing it through your camera is crystal clear

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Yes good point!

[@Kornholeeoo]

The salesman who sold me my GSA has a CF Moto but it’s one of the street bikes. He loves it. I see a bunch of reviews of this bike and almost all are positive but the reviewers all own the bikes. Hard to get an honest review because everyone wants validation that they bought a great bike! I get that. Nothing wrong with that. But ask me if I’m gonna drop 10 grand on a Chinese bike…I’m just not there yet.

[@AndrewWilsonOz]

My CFMoto 650MT is always an issue to find neutral. Also, false neutral between 3rd and 2nd, is an on going issue. I am not the only one finding these problems. I few other CF riders are having the same problems. At least, those are the only major issues I've had, other than a water pump replacement under warranty. (was a manufacture issue with the pump, that they fixed). Other than that, has been a great bike to own and ride.

[@johnDukemaster]

4 years warranty sounds good...but then you have 4 years of spending money on service at the aut. dealer. The gearbox issues might dissapear after some use. That's often the case. Nice one mr Flyer!

[@daveshakespeare1610]

Neutral finding is easy, the gearshift is clearly not set up right on that bike, so that's down to the dealer. Menu system is not intuitive, I agree with you 100%, but you can't poo poo something you obviously haven't bothered to learn. The Africa twin has controls similar to concorde, but once learned, it's easy peasy. No risk with fit and finish, it's the same as any bike, it all hangs on how the owner looks after it. Quick shifter is smooth as silk, way better infact than my GSA, only glitch with it infact is it's a little to sensitive. I've had mine since last November, covered 4k on it throughout the winter, and it looks as good now as the day brought it. The barrier for most people will be it's country of origin, even though they're probably already riding a bike half made in China.

[@LTVoyager]

You absolutely can poo poo a menu system that requires reading a manual to use. No excuse for systems that aren’t intuitive with today’s technology.

[@daveshakespeare1610]

@LTVoyager absolute rubbish. So you understand perfectly how every system on your bike, car, washing machine, or toaster works without ever having to refer to the manual?

[@LTVoyager]

@@daveshakespeare1610 No, because many are as poorly designed as the CFMoto. However, many are very intuitive and useable without the manual. The BMW whiz wheel is one that is quite easy to figure out. I’ve rented K1600GTLs several times in Europe and the UK and it took only a couple minutes to figure out and get comfortable with the whiz wheel. Well-designed systems don’t require a manual. Poorly designed systems do.

[@daveshakespeare1610]

@LTVoyager I did agree that it isn't intuitive, I compared it to the africa twin. You just need to learn how it works, of which I would expect somebody plying their trade as a motorcycle reviewer to do.

[@LTVoyager]

@@daveshakespeare1610 Yes, he should have learned how it works as that would have made his argument about the poor design and lack of intuitive user interface more credible.

[@rookieriderUK3666]

Hi I have to be a cfmoto pusher I think as all I can say is good things about it albeit I ride the 650mt and this is the 800mt I have had my bike little over two years out in all weather's and I do mean all (I am in scotland) my bike is 5 yrs old almost 6 and I personally have covered 12,000 miles in time I had it and have had no issues. I think longevity and durability from my experince is going just as strong as other top brands. My next bike (which be soon) will be another 650mt or the 800mt depending on what I can afford

[@sdavey10]

Top notch video TMF, thank you. Enjoyed the small print, hope the whingers actually read it.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

I wish!

[@aps-pictures9335]

Always great to have these budget competitors to (hopefully…) stop the ever inflating price tag of the top makes. Looks good too and nice TFT! My first bike was a Zontes GK125 and it was solid (slipper clutch was a dream, backlit switchgear, etc). Plus I wouldn’t be so worried about dropping this one on a bit of adventuring off-road (to a price). The warranty if they honour it is tempting too! Would I buy one? No. But then I own a BMW 😅, so maybe not the market.

[@andrewpaton8819]

Hi Andy I wonder if the link with KTM engine building, will show the same problems now occurring with KTM camshafts. Which has revealed the hardness of the camshaft metal is not sufficient leading to engines destroying themselves. I wonder if longer term we will see these CF Moto engines following suit.

[@poobank]

neutral is not a problem. Main complaint I have is touchy throttle at low RPM.

[@M15TERx]

Any idea if depreciation is an issue? I had a Chinese motorcycle and the main dealer didn't really want it back in px!

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Oh dear - and yes I suspect it is an issue.....

[@MarkATaylor]

I seem to remember you reviewing a Chinese bike a couple of years or so ago and it was turning to rust while you had it if my memory serves 😂. So seems to have come a long way and its not a bad looker is it.

[@Themotograndpa]

A nice bike for the money but you only get what you pay for Andy

[@specialcircs]

No you don't. Brand and reputation add hugely to the price (but not value) or all consumer goods.

[@derekm6236]

Put a KTM badge on it and charge more. Would that make it better?

[@dcijams]

@@derekm6236 I'm happy, it's a remake of the KTM. it's worth the value

[@AzTurboMini]

Lol

[@Roy-cm1bh]

Nice review, great value for what you get. If you have a problem with it being Chinese and whatever, just look and see what phone you are using and where it’s made lol. Regardless of where it is made, it’s look a lot of bike for the money and we are buying the expensive branded ones, some a few fab and some so so and I have had a few. To be honest, the way things are going and the price of insurance now for cars and bikes escalating, I’m now for practicability with associated running costs. Living in a city with ultra high crime now, it’s pointless having anything nice or top end unfortunately.

[@granthassell9214]

Good review. I have the 800MT (Limited Edition with the luggage pack etc), and must say I love it. I down-sized (weight-wise) from a HD Ultra Limited so I find the CFMoto nimble and sharp! I think your review hit all the main points. I score it well in comfort, (I am mostly 2-up), looks, extras, sound, go. I haven't any trouble with neutral and, if I remember to use it, the quick shift works a treat, (although I don't have much experience with them). As you did say, once you know the display, its fine to operate. One little niggle of mine, (and I do mean little), is the indicator switch, I am never sure if I switched it on, I always have to sneak a look! With everyone else, I guess I am in the "time will tell" state of mind as regards the long term durability, but, as to resale as some sort of parameter, I have to say that with all my past bikes, I tended to thank them for what they gave me when I had them, not what they owed me. Just my take!

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Yes I’m similar to you in that respect, and besides a large depreciation on a bike not costing much to start with still amounts to not a lot!

[@richardredding9632]

Or the very balanced summary. I mastered the screen easily. Press set then hold down top arrow. This gives you the menu. No handbook needed and can do on the go as well. I don't use phone or nav. I get 100 percent positive comments. Most Chinese haters seem to be online, what a surprise.

[@charliequach6399]

I have been looking at CFMOTO range of bikes, especially this one and 450MT but I've just found out about Kove. The Kove 800X is as light as the 450 MT! I'll wait a few more years until Kove sells their bikes here in Australia. In the mean time, I'll keep my Z900 for a while yet.

[@richardprice4935]

Hi Andy Finding neutral and the clunky quick shift is down to incorrect chain tension. And the tft I find less of pain then the bmw. But not having a manual doesn't help. Push set. Then hold the up arrow, and you get the menu for heated grips, etc. It's just a matter of getting used to it.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Thanks for sharing

[@exeterinterception]

Quick question do you think the cfmoto 800 would be a good bike for two up touring or maybe the new voge 900or is there something else you can suggest doesn't have to be a adventure bike ,Cant afford a bmw gs thanks for the reviews

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

How about a secondhand R1200GS?

[@johngum7158]

Hi Andy. Could you tell me if this is the Explore or Touring version? Loved the reviews on this and seriously considering taking the plunge.

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

I guess Touring but don't actually know!

[@dutchsailor6620]

Since the engines are the same as in the KTM 790 series : Will these engines develop the same camshaft problems that KTM has (and denies having)?

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

I don't know - logic would dictate probably yes!

[@parasinthephilippines]

Still waiting on the Kove 800 pro

[@martingaughan2419]

The issue with neutral could just be specific to your particular bike so hopefully a few owner's can chip in here,must admit im sorely tempted

[@SloppySalad]

With Cfmoto now cropping up more in Europe, do you think you’ll test ride the 450MT - as far as I know, the only middle ground between the smaller 300 and larger 800+ CC adventure/off road bikes?

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Yes, it’s on the list, stay tuned!

[@SloppySalad]

@@TheMissendenFlyer THANK YOU!

[@karlosh9286]

The weather in Blighty ... Rocketman has it worked out. Live in Portugal !

[@WheelieGoodTV]

Cracking vid Andy and yes defo a cracking looking bike. I would say without doubt I will own a Chinese bike in the future….just not yet, and for all the reasons you outlined. 👌🏍️

[@janman55]

I wonder if the resale value is lower than similarly priced motorcycles?

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Time will tell!

[@dimitrist3561]

What happens if you bin it and you need spare parts? Will you need to wait for a month for parts to arrive? And what happens in 5 years when it's no longer in production?

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Questions I can't answer I'm afraid....

[@joeln6861]

Looks just like my Triumph Tiger (900 gt), but costs a lot less and has a heated seat. Not sure I would have gone with the CFMoto, but it does make me wonder if I should have waited for this to come out and a little longer to see how they hold up.

[@markbur1503]

Will it hold any value over 3 years.. The Beneli range I think are Chinese and can be picked up used very cheaply.

[@simonthomas5367]

Morning TMF! So it’s generally a good bike with a naff gearbox and a whiff of cheap and cheerful?

[@TheMissendenFlyer]

Pretty much!

[@simonthomas5367]

@@TheMissendenFlyer Not for Carol then!