Should legacy characters get their own names?

[@8bitvictor]

By far the most cancellable take here is “you probably don’t think of Kyle Rayner”. I will not take this Kyle Rayner Slander lightly 😤

[@TheThunderbirdRising]

Bro was literally god, don't be disrespecting him

[@localraccoon6755]

for real. he's more than just a green lantern, he's THE Lantern. Not Green, Not Red, all of them.

[@EmperorDxD]

@@TheThunderbirdRising no one thinks about him and cares about him

[@matthewp4784]

@@EmperorDxDshut your mouth!

[@matthewp4784]

respect the rayner

[@kidanarchy2105]

Okay but why has Tim never been called Sparrow? Sounds intimidating, still in the kinda bird theme he likes to stick with, and it pays homage to his time as Robin without sounding derivative. You can even keep his Red Robin suit!

[@LodestarLogado]

I was just about to comment this, I fully endorse this idea.

[@IndraTyde]

In this first issue of his new book there was a girl helping him out who used the name and I dunno if she's gonna show up again but it's looking like since the name Robin itself carries quite some prestige these days Sparrow might end up being a Robin's partner name which I'm fine with. I've seen some people suggest he go with Cardinal which still follows the bird theme and I kinda like it

[@kidanarchy2105]

@@IndraTyde Cardinal works, I suppose. It just sounds really formal and not as intimidating. Honestly, if the Court of Owls wasn't already using it, Talon would be great. My girlfriend suggested Shrike, though.

[@joshuaperrine2019]

Sparrow is what they called a character in Save the Supers

[@stevencooper564]

And Damien could be Shit-Bird.

[@mrgtoyz]

Sam would absolutely be going by "Captain Falcon" if Nintendo wouldn't sue Marvel's asses into next Tuesday.

[@mperezmcfinn2511]

They should go for it and see if Nintendo takes the bait. It doesn't matter who's right, at the end of the day Disney has better lawyers.

[@OMNITYPE27]

Maybe something related to the bald eagle could work.

[@emanuelrojas2]

'Eagle' would be a good name for him.

[@MrShadowSmith]

Nightwing is a great example of a legacy character done right I never felt he was forced to replace batman. He became his own character.

[@elimoody9626]

I feel the need to acknowledge this whenever I get the chance the absolute hilarity that the sole user of the name Orphan in the superhero community (which has all the orphans) has TWO living parents (David Cain and Lady Shiva) plus an adoptive family

[@Jeicemeiser]

Oh my goodness I never thought of that! She’s literally the least orphaned in the entire Batfamily of almost-entirely orphans 😂

[@aradraugfea6755]

I thought she took on the name after Shiva and Cain were killed by something or other. Not that those deaths STUCK, but...

[@danielnoonan3049]

I believe in Young Justice (I think season 4?) it was interpreted as a name she took on to distance herself from her family. Like, Shiva is obviously not a good mother, so she takes on the name Orphan as a way of disowning her parents. From that perspective I really like it.

[@OjamaSentai]

If i remember right she took the code name orphan because that was her fathers code name he died at some point in the comics so to honor him

[@OpinionParade]

That's a good secret identity, though. Wouldnt being an actual orphan...be a bit one the nose?

[@isthisajojoreference]

The thing about passing the torch is that you have to actually pass the damn torch and not pass it back

[@brasswirebrush]

Jay Leno has entered the chat

[@Zaidoesstuff]

Exactly, you can’t play catch with the torch

[@ripzaurus]

The thing with the Flash is that Barry was dead for a while, not just your average comic death of about a year or two. Wally was the flash for like 22 years I believe. So for a generation of people, Wally was The Flash, for all of those people it would've been weird for Wally to lose his name just because the previous Flash came back. It's as if Jay Garrick went to Barry's earth and kept the name The Flash, and Barry had to find another name. So ye, it's a weird situation. I'm also not a fan of there being two different Flashes, but I don't think Wally can go by Kid Flash anyways, and I'm not sure how I feel about giving him a completely new name, but it probably would be for the better. It honestly would've been better than just deleting him form existence, looking at you New 52.

[@christianemden7637]

Also Wally chose to become “the Flash” for a very specific reason, to honor Barry’s memory. Bringing Barry back was one if those stupid things comic books do.

[@jaydog1780]

It's weird cuz Wally absolutely EARNED the Flash identity. He had to work for that shit and was Flash for decades like you said. I'm down for the idea that Barry should have a different name and Wally can keep the mantle. Like Barry can have Trailblazer or Forerunner which fits his character. Jay is supposed to be "retired" so we can ignore him as is.

[@marvelfannumber1]

They should just not have brought Barry Allen back. Like, I don't think a single person was asking for it, to most people Wally was The Flash. Nobody really cared about Barry anymore aside from really nostalgic older readers. But no, they had to unnecessarily bring him back anyway, and now we're stuck with it I guess.

[@jaydog1780]

@@marvelfannumber1 As much as I agree with this sentiment, Barry is back and we just have to deal with it. DC is never going to get rid of him. So I think Barry changing his name is the best most believable solution

[@marvelfannumber1]

@@jaydog1780 Like I said, Barry's brought back unnecessarily, and now we're stuck with it I guess. Only way forward is to work around it somehow.

[@xavieraristide1217]

It’s crazy to me that Duke Thomas can get a name and powers that sets him apart from the other Bat-Fam in a relatively short time and Tim Drake is still struggling to find his own😭 it really feels bad

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

It's because there aren't enough writers out there willing to delve into his " better detective than Batman "

[@ez6888]

He should’ve just evolved into the Gray Ghost and got reworked somewhere between when Jason got brought back and Damian created. We could’ve got some decent stories, but now he’s just floating around as extra bloat to the Batfam

[@creed8712]

Do be fair at least one person cares about Duke in terms of writing him. It’s been clear people working at DC care as much about Tim as they did about Nightwing for awhile

[@darkironyoshi]

@@ez6888 Oh I REALLY love the idea of him being called Gray Ghost. And he could lean more into the batman grey and black look.

[@hcxpl1]

Yeah, but as a side effect he has being able to be even more absent in the comics than Drake is. Like other people here I think they should focus on the more detective side of Tim, and, honestly, I think he should be more like Oracle, not necessarily the man behind the computer but have more of an architectural role rather than being on field, bc the way that it is right now (and has been for the past decade) he is kind of redundant, which fades him into the background more often than not.

[@BasaltHorogiumFan]

In gotham knights during Tim's story they talk about chess and how Bruce's favorite piece was the knight and how Tim needs to find his own way to win, not just copy Bruce. Tim takes a liking to the Rook which he deems an unseen threat that can set up for unexpected plays, much like he sees himself. I'd honestly love if Tim took up the mantle as Rook, a black bird with a white face or he could even keep the red too. I just think rook is a good identity for Tim that hasn't been done

[@emanuelrojas2]

Much better name than 'Sparrow' or whatever.

[@mrgtoyz]

I think the biggest problem facing Miles is that there just isn't a good enough name for him. And that's been true for legacy Spider-Men since the beginning. Even Ben Riley had to be referred to by first name until "Scarlet Spider" came along and even then multiple people have taken up that mantle. And that works both with alliteration but also because Scarlet is an off color of red so by costume standards it works. Miles' costume is predominantly black so you would think Black Spider could work but then DC already has a character named that and also you can't name a black superhero "Black Noun" these days because it's been done to death and feel tacky. You also don't want to go with the youth names like "Spider-Boy" "Spider-ling" because it's still too connected to the original and is famously connected to side-kicks which Miles isn't in most cases. You can't name him after a type of black spider because most spider's are named after other things and animals like wolfs and trapdoors. The most famous black spider being the Black Widow is taken by another hero and also a Widow is female so that wouldn't work regardless. Now you're left with aspects of spider's and there's nothing good there either. Kid Arachnid sounds like a bootleg and Spin is just as Nando mentioned not good. So we're left with just sticking with Miles Morales Spider-Man.

[@BlueBlazeKing]

How’s about Shadow Spider, in Champions Vol 2 25, that was Miles name when he and the champions were in Weirdworld

[@Tuaron]

@@BlueBlazeKing Feels a little similar to the Gwen Stacy Spider-Woman's Ghost Spider, but it works.

[@mrgtoyz]

@@BlueBlazeKing not the worst. Seems a little too pulpy considering both The Shadow and The Spider are pulp heroes. Would work better for Spider-Man Noir considering he's practically that.

[@МолчаливыйКлинок]

What about shortening "Kid Arachnid" to just "Arachnid"? Isn't Miles growing to old for a "kid" anyway now?

[@Missing_Nin]

You can’t change Miles’s name. It’s too ingrained to who he is as a character. He was created as Spider-Man. That’s all he’s ever been and too much of his story has revolved around him earning that mantle

[@juliorama1772]

One thing I like about the Spider-Men is that they usually have an adjective that can be used to refer to one of them Amazing Spider-Man = Peter Parker Superior Spider-Man = Otto Octavius Spider-Man 2099 = Miguel O'hara Spider-Man Noir = Peter Parker (1930's) But then you have Miles Morales, who's simply "Spider-Man". If he just had an adjective like "Venomous Spider-Man", it'd make him stand out a lot more. In the battlefield, they could all just call each other by the unique parts of their names (Amazing, Superior, 2099, Noir, Venomous) and it'd work like a charm.

[@BadamRaguseaIfYouWill]

Isn’t miles Ultimate?

[@obsidiandragon1385]

If I remember correctly Miles was Ultimate spiderman

[@ekanastone]

He's literally Ultimate Spider-Man

[@juliorama1772]

Ultimate was already the title of the Peter Parker of Earth-1610 (and also the title of pretty much every character of 1610, since it's known as the "Ultimate Marvel Universe"). It's not an adjective unique to Miles, as we also have a TV show from 2012 called "Ultimate Spider-Man" where the main character is Peter. And, most importantly, the Miles Morales comics dropped the "Ultimate" after 2015's Secret Wars, when he left the Ultimate Universe (1610) and was reallocated to the Main Universe (616). In 2016 he got a solo series simply called "Spider-Man" that ended in 2018. In 2018, he got a new solo series called "Miles Morales: Spider-Man", and that's been his editorial name ever since. TLDR: Miles WAS the Ultimate Spider-Man when he lived in the Ultimate Universe. Now that he's in the Main Universe, he's just "Spider-Man" or "Miles Morales: Spider-Man" like his Marvel Snap card says.

[@alessandrowarna3237]

Black Spider-Man

[@TalysAlankil]

honestly i agree with your take. of course one easier solution would be to stop constantly bringing back characters who died/got depowered so that it just doesn't happen as often and let the mantle truly be passed on. but given that that's never gonna happen in the industry as it exists, then yeah, each version should get separate names.

[@nobodyknowsforsure]

The reason this doesn't make sense is instead of building a roster it's being reduced. A creative person would instead turn a 'Robin' into a 'Nightwing' -- nothing was lost in that method. Aging out a character makes sense as well, that's why I don't look at 2099 Spider-man the same. He's literally in a far flung future.

[@StubzTurner]

@@nobodyknowsforsure The problem with aging out characters is that often times you'll see writers well start to have no clue what to do with characters like Dick Grayson or Wally West.

[@owenleal]

@@StubzTurner yeah, but thats where things like talent and writing competence come in.

[@DrippleDragon]

@@owenleal that’s true but I get that over use of a character not only effects writers but fans as well, look at Superman for example, your right it does take talent to do things correctly and if that talent is done correctly we get amazing variations like Ben Parker, Terry McGuinnes, Lorena (AquaGirl), Conner Kent, Rose Wilson, Marvel Man, and a very slept on characters whose entire backstory is set on their mantle being passed down by generation, Black Canary who honor the original characters and are a breath of fresh air for the time being before they either become a variation or become their own thing entirely shit man Harley Quinn is probably the most successful side kick who got her own identity and you can see she’s solemnly surviving off of merchandise and not entirely her own story

[@pn2294]

Heroes should just age out naturally rather than constantly rewriting them to fit the new story.

[@violacola]

Tim's (and his writers') refusal to move on from the role of Robin is my biggest frustration with current comics. There's so many birds out there he could pick from. A popular fandom one is Crow. Tim can't be a 17 year old forever and he can't be Robin forever and I hope DC realizes that eventually. (Also this isn't really related but it's kind of funny and speaks to why Red Robin is also a bad name so I'm sharing it. There's this one panel of a comic--I can't remember which--where Nightwing, Oracle, Red Hood, Red Robin, and Robin are all working together, and Nightwing calls Oracle "Red" over comms, to which Jason complains "why does she get to be Red?". There's certainly a lot of Red in the Batfam these days.)

[@cthulhutheendless1587]

As Harley Quinn once suggested, Tim should be “duck boy.” Solves the red problem

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

I feel like if writers just focused more on Tim's detective status they would be able to come up with something better.

[@OniNoSweeney]

I think Crow is solidly spoken for in the comic book landscape.

[@menageriestudios]

I think Rook would be a good name for Tim if it’s not taken already

[@nate9601]

@@OniNoSweeney I’m a fan of Redwing. He’s following after his two big brothers - Nightwing + Red Hood = Redwing

[@yaloolah42]

@The Nando Cut Blue Beetle is another great example of legacy characters that work. Each one is unique, and even though they share a name, they don't get them mixed up. Dan Garret is dead and rarely mentioned. In-comics, Blue Beetle II is either just called "Ted" or "Beetle" and Blue Beetle III is either called "Jaime" or "Blue," so even when they are together, you don't get them mixed up.

[@untapped8776]

I think Miles is the most unfortunate case of this issue. I think everybody who is a fan of him *wants* him to be Spider-Man. For many, he *is* Spider-Man. But so is Peter Parker. It works great when Miles is in his own universe, but outside of Spider-Verse that doesn't seem to be the popular way to use him nowadays. In the modern day, Miles and Peter work along side each other with Peter as Miles' mentor. And a lot of people, me included, like their dynamic and relationship. I think Miles *should* be called Spider-Man, and I also like the versions of him where Peter Parker also exists. But the "comms confusion" issue comes into play, and it's just unfortunate.

[@nobodyknowsforsure]

Miles is better suited to dimension hopping. He's oddly comfortable with it. They completely wasted an opportunity for development between him and Parker for Secret Empire. At that moment, he should have been the one in his corner but it was wasted. To be fair I think at that time he had to face Hydra Doc Ock so I think that prob. screwed him over.

[@marvelfannumber1]

I gotta say, I'm not really a big fan of the whole mentor relationship either. I feel like it totally undermines Miles' character and further emphasizes this idea that he's just "the other Spider-Man". Like, for one. Miles never needed a mentor when he was in his own universe. The whole point of his character when he was in his own universe is that he *is* Spider-Man now and that he needs to stop being compared with the former one, because he's just as good (if not better). Secondly, Peter never needed a mentor, so why does Miles need one? Wasn't the whole point of Spider-Man's creation to create a teenage superhero that isn't a sidekick? Thirdly, Miles is more powerful than Peter, he has powers Peter doesn't have. Why does Peter need to be his mentor? This is one of the things I really did not like in the PS4 game. This whole mentor relationship between the two in that game makes Miles feel more like Peter's sidekick...which is just so wrong. Miles should never be a sidekick, or feel like one.

[@shanewyrostek5533]

I think if miles is in the main universe with Peter alive they should give him the scarlet spider mantle and stop trying to make the spider clones work because they clearly haven't been able to in more than 30 years

[@k9commander]

@@shanewyrostek5533 Who do you want to get the Scarlet Spider name? It wasn't clear to me by what you typed.

[@shanewyrostek5533]

@@k9commander miles

[@duchydog101]

i like the idea of differentiating peter and miles as queens and brooklyn respectively while they're together

[@matthewschneider3391]

I think they handled Superman very very well. Clark is leaving earth for an extended period of time and leaves Jon behind to be earth's Superman. Superman is the name people whisper for help all over the world.

[@captainblighe7297]

I liked how in Young Justice the animated show, the way they shorten their names to Rob, SB, KF, etc. It’s neat. Also I do love that there’s a clone of Laura Kinney called Honey Badger, that’s wonderful.

[@luska4515]

I saw a reddit post depicting Tim Drake as the Gray Ghost. This is based on the Batman: The Animated Series where Bruce watched a cartoon when he was a kid about a detective superhero called Gray Ghost. I thought this was a really cool ideia for Tim, since it shows his admiration for Bruce and it makes sense for him, since he is the greatest detective of all the Robins.

[@Doublesunpower1]

I think Laura and Logan is clear enough. It’s clear who is who when the two are together in a panel. Plus the story telling of Logan being proud of the name to the point where is “daughter” takes on the name is great.

[@zachbahamutson5477]

He's not proud of her taking up his name, he's proud of her talking back the Cyclops. I mean he doesn't mind her taking up his codename but he is more proud of her talking back the Cyclops.

[@DemonicRemption]

@Doublesunpower1 But Laura was introduced as "X-23." So why call her "Wolverine?"

[@zachbahamutson5477]

@@DemonicRemption She took up the codename Wolverine during a Time where Logan was in case in a adamantium shell and technically died from suffocation. She's never going to pick the codename x-23 up ever again as that was something that was forced upon her against her will similar to Logan's Cody before the Wolverine, Weapon X. Both of these codenames for basically marks of slavery for the father-daughter Duo, so the two of them never picking them up again is understandable.

[@nobodyknowsforsure]

@@zachbahamutson5477 So let me get this right, for ALL of her other times X-23 was okay but now it's suddenly bad...yeah okay. How does that make any sense?? I will forever call her X-23. Also if she wanted another code name she would have most definitely done so before.

[@hound89]

@@zachbahamutson5477 wolverine was the codename the canadian goverment gave logan when he was there goverment sanctioned Kill Beast Its not like he picked the name for himself ether

[@tallyprestin1881]

The Thor one is the silliest because it's not a hero name... It's his name. But it's also the only one that makes sense why the follow-up ones have the asterix because it's the hammer that gives them the power... The power of Thor.

[@ProjektTaku]

Thor is such a mess. Its like somebody gaining Namor's ankle wings and going under Namor as a codename, or "Namor-Girl" (Looking at Thor-Girl). But I guess even Donald Blake also original used Thor as a codename, before they revealed he was actually Thor with amnesia, but also just a separate guy in body and mind.

[@DoctorFatality]

I'd love to see you watch My Hero Academia because they get really caught up in the minutia of things like this and how superheroes would have to operate within larger organizational structures.

[@jbee1999]

I could’ve sworn I remember him saying he likes My Hero but I could be wrong. Nonetheless it would definitely be cool to see a video on MHA from Nando

[@amielbenedictmirasol6808]

I hate how they aged Jonathan. He and damian had such a great dynamic

[@0kdevv_]

Canonically the villains kno the differences between the flashes, their costumes are different and the villains recognize their personalities

[@SanguineSidereal]

The worst part about the Flash thing is that in addition to their being multiple Flashes there are also multiple Wally Wests. Which for a long time left no real good way to refer to these different characters. They eventually settled on one goes by Wally and the other by Wallace. But for several years it was just a confusing mess.

[@Tyler_W]

"Wallace" in general was a mistake, a perfect case of why you create new characters. You don't tokenize them.

[@JcgLounge]

Yeah why are there multiple Wally Wests?

[@felipevasconcelos6736]

@@JcgLounge because: a) DC wanted fans from the Flash CW show to have a smoother transition to the comics. So, in the new continuity, they made the Flash Barry again, and later introduced Wallace West (based on the show) as the new Wally. b) DC also wanted to keep fans of the original Wally. So later, they made up some bullshit about him being stuck in the speed force or something, Barry saves him, and it turns out this new Wally is his cousin he had never heard about. So basically the result of DC wanting to eat their cake and save it too.

[@hcxpl1]

​@@felipevasconcelos6736 Except that the Wallace West from the comics was introduced almost 2 full years before the show's version was, I know bc I followed both at the time and even wondered which version of Wally we would get to see on screen. But yeah, the second one is true, I do think they shot themselves in the foot by retconning the original Wally out of existence when he already had a family and some 30+ years of history but oh well, the damage has been made.

[@felipevasconcelos6736]

@@hcxpl1 yeah, I should’ve been clearer. He was based on the show’s decision to cast the black actors for Joe and Iris West.

[@CreamFraiche]

I think Thor is the weirdest one cuz that's not some title or codename, that's his literal name. It's like if Peter dies and Miles is like "I am Peter now." and we get a book called "Miles Morales: Peter"

[@danielramsey6141]

Since we’re talking about Legacy/Unique names for Protégé sidekick characters. I specifically remember one time were one Comic could Use Robin’s name for a Teen Titans comic. So they came up with “The Protector”. The Costume and character were different and unique. I think abit more fixing and modifying the suit design he could’ve been another Identity for the Batman crew.

[@tobiasbenedictdrager965]

I usually handle the Spider-Men in the way, that Spider-Man is Peter and Ultimate Spider-Man is Miles. In case of Gwen, Spider-Gwen obviously doesn't work in the comics, but it's kinda genius and ridiculous how they handled it in comics. Gwen realizes that she has a secret identity in the 616 universe and points out that she can't be Spider-Woman 'cause Jessica would be mad. And in the next panel, she immediately settles on the name "Ghost-Spider". Peter is confused and Gwen says "Just roll with it." I think the writers settled with that name, not because she is a ghost to Peter (just like Peter is a ghost to her, btw), but rather because she hops a lot between universes and just like a ghost, she can be there in one moment and gone in the next. Plus her costume looks quite ghosty.

[@akiraeatsguitarpicks491]

I think it’s just because she has a hood and wears white

[@stevenbobbybills]

@@akiraeatsguitarpicks491 same here, honestly. I figured it was always that.

[@Dwyer-nl9fz]

Nah Peter is the ultimate spider-man as well

[@aliastheabnormal]

Also you can't really say that Miles Morales is the Black Spider man and that Gwen is the White Spider woman. Even though it would basically solve all of the issues to begin with. Because someone would claim its racist.

[@Dwyer-nl9fz]

@@aliastheabnormal instead

[@ACE-es7zi]

I think if DC adds an adjective in front of the hero's name like Marvel does, it will be easier to distinguish heroes with the same name. Just like Peter and Miles are both Spider-Man, people call them "Spider-Man" when they are apart, but when they are together, people can call them "Amazing Spider-Man" and "Ultimate Spider-Man" to distinguish them.

[@lukjebb]

Further to your point, they brough back an older and thought dead Laura Kinney in the new X-Men run and she talked to the one that is Wolverine right now and they decided that the younger one would still keep Wolverine as a mantle and the other one goes by Talon. They also finally changed Logan's son's code name and it's Fang now which I am glad they changed it from the weird slur it was :)

[@mageolight5258]

Miles Morales could just adopt the spanish version of his name given his heritage, I'd love to see the rest of the english speaking cast have to refer to him in the english version as "hombre araña".

[@ToonamiT0M]

As a Flash super fan, I love the idea that multiple people hold the title "The Flash" at the same time. It's something unique to the Flash Family. Usually there is only one Flash in a given story so there is no confusion. And times there are multiple Flashes working together, things are so crazy that using real names is not an issue because everyone involved already knows each other and civilians aren't around to hear anyway.

[@thepulp80s]

It’s definitely not unique to flash anymore since we have like 3 Batman’s, 2 or more Superman’s, and getting more and more doubles and triples of superhero names as the years go by at DC

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

But there are TWO Wallys.

[@ToonamiT0M]

@@bazzfromthebackground3696 There's Wally and Wallace.

[@calumhouston3308]

@@thepulp80s only if you don't pay attention to what is going on in the comics. Jon took on the "role" of Superman temporarily, and DC used it as a way to market to LGBTQ and garner a ton of traffic online. Clark is still Superman, same with Bruce as Batman. There is Blackman running around in New York, but no one is confusing *him* with the Caped Crusader.

[@thepulp80s]

@@calumhouston3308 I do pay attention. And Jon isn’t “no longer Superman” now that Clark is back. DC is not going to strip away his being a Superman And no where did I say the OGs are no longer their code name, just that there’s 2-3 of each of them now all existing at the same time, which is 100% and also super dumb imo

[@itskevinolear]

I think a good compromise with Miles is to refer to him as “Ultimate Spider-Man” or maybe just “Ultimate” for short. I think that makes sense because he’s from the Ultimate universe, and he kind of is the Ultimate Spider-Man. I mean he can do a lot of things Peter can’t do like turn invisible, electrocute people, and hug his parents.

[@MoreThanACasualFan]

💀 I think Kid Arachnid could work, but sometimes when I say it, it sounds too kiddish, then other times I think it is cool. It is pretty controversial. But im surprised the main comics dont make Miles Ultimate Spider Man

[@hogndog2339]

@@MoreThanACasualFan maybe just arachnid then?

[@stickyfingers5189]

The problem with that tho is that Peter was also the ultimate Spider-Man at first and they made a lot of cartoons and games back in the day with him in that role too. Also just the name Ultimate seems kinda vague for an overtly spider branded hero. Casual fans who don’t even know about the ultimate universe might be left scratching their heads at it.

[@itskevinolear]

@@stickyfingers5189 yeah but those cartoons and games were from a long time ago. Besides how “ultimate” can Peter be when he can’t even give his dad a high five?

[@okekayode3611]

I think Ultimate Spider is better

[@AlexArtsHere]

Not finished the video yet but on your suggestion that Clark Kent should change his name: I think that's probably the single most outrageous thing that they could commit to, regardless of the context it's done. Superman has been Superman for so long that it's stuck and cemented itself into the zeitgeist. You can't change that no matter what you do. But Man of Tomorrow? That's a good name, and I think it works for *Jon* as a metaphor for how the younger generation has progressed from the older one in terms of acceptance and diversity. Not to say that Superman needs to be painted as out of touch, but as part of the next generation, Jon is quite literally the Man of Tomorrow.

[@mustachio_comics9125]

You’ve literally put all my thoughts in this video. Acknowledging legacy characters are cool in concept but messy in practice unless you really lean into it

[@crablord7934]

I think that just having a unique name for a character can give them so much more individuality from the start rather than them having to prove themselves with loads of slow building. Me personally I'd be more intrigued by a new name than a "oh they have a series for that [insert superhero name] reskin?" on a comic cover.

[@SpeedDemon55]

I saw Nightwing I click. Pretty simple.

[@patriciomendoza19]

I feel like this channel should be called "Nando v Twitter," 🤣. Love the channel I just think it's funny how often these vids start with something along the lines of "I was on Twitter"

[@fanta3853]

I think something that does bother me is the assumption that's given in basically every case but Robin that it's the new guy who needs to pick something else. Like, the "Take a new identity" thing always uses Nightwing as an example, but in that case he was also bowing out to make room for Jason. I think it works a lot better in a lot of cases for the more experienced character to be the one taking a new identity, because they have more history to draw on, and also like. If Peter Parker stopped being Spider-Man, he'd still be Peter Parker, you know? The original characters have enough brand recognition they can survive not having their names.

[@na5567]

I disagree, it makes sense for the old character to keep their name. For starters they usual picked it themselves or got it under specific circumstances. Additionally it's worse for brand recognition. People might know Peter Parker but they aren't reading "Peter Parker" comics. Miles is known as miles more than he is Spider-Man to people out of universe. The side kick or replacement should only keep the name under certain circumstances

[@stevenbobbybills]

...I agree with both of you for differing reasons here.

[@DrippleDragon]

@@na5567 I agree with certain circumstances but in reality it’s either the sidekick takes the mantle or becomes their own thing and can even share the name it has been done before, we forget about Bucky, he is successfully the Side kick who becomes his own thing and even does alright in the mantle and can alternate in both, but it’s as you said, circumstances, when it comes to Miles he is still a fresh character, if the writing is good in another universe he can be Sprawler a variation of miles that got Spider powers but told his uncle first so he took him under his wing, or my personal favorite, Ben Parker, he successfully became the edgier Peter/Spider-Man and is even favored more when he became his own Spider-Man, I guess what I’m saying is ultimately it can be done from all angles it just depends on the writer and execution and if they deem it to be permanent or a variation

[@GingeryGinger]

@@DrippleDragon but what you’re suggesting would end up in a knight and squire situation. It’s just a boring old cycle. “Whoops, knight is dead I guess squire becomes knight. Nope, that knights dead too, let’s swap again.” Name one of dc’s knight/squire characters identities (without searching it up). I loved batman incorporated but even I can’t do that.

[@lunakingsley.7247]

@@GingeryGinger carol danvers and all the miss marvels. Or mar-vel and Carol as captain marvel. There is also captain America as a whole.

[@mikecunningham4682]

I feel like the in-universe and real world logic for the name changes just doesn't often align, like you say with marketing. And every legacy character just lands on some sort of compromise between diagesis and sales eventually that either feels like a bad choice for the character for the sake of sales, or sacrificing sales for a character detail.

[@LoboMaloArte]

Dude, the Spiders just remind me of Kamen Rider. Peter=Ichigo, Miles=Niigo, Miguel=V3. Laura taking over the Wolverine name, perfect. Plus, it's a family thing, going from father to daughter. Even the Batman legacy, Bruce to his adopted son, Dick, then eventually Damien or Terry. Yes, it's a legacy, if you inherit the name, take it, and live up to it. I was looking forward to seeing what name Miles would have taken during Dan Slot's run, especially with Peter training him. Miles even questioned if he even WANTED to keep using Spider-Man while Peter was still active.

[@ramacciottisilv]

with the superman name, you could keep both of them as superman, and distinct them by using their krypton names. in the field if you want Clark you call out to Kal-El, because while their human identities is secret, their alien ones are not

[@stickyfingers5189]

I think the only real problem I have with heroes sharing names at the same time is that the public would absolutely not allow it and immediately come up with different names to identify each of them. Stuff like calling miles “Brooklyn Spider-Man” because he patrols there more often would only stick for like a week before the streets came up with a way better nickname for him that wether he liked it or not they’d all start calling him by both in person and online. This is how most heroes usually get their original hero names by the public picking one for them. Like you said in this video I think writers get a lot of wiggle room having characters with the same hero name just openly calling eachother by their real names like Wally, Barry, Hal, Jon, etc in comms since they never HAVE to show us regular civilians perspective during battle overhearing these heroes talking to eachother.

[@A_Hylian_Not_An_Elf]

I really wish he mentioned this. The public would never allow this.

[@MicahIsBatman2]

The thing with Wally is that he's been the Flash for pretty much the same amount of time Barry Has. When Wally became Flash, Barry was meant to be Dead, not comic book dead, and he stayed dead for 20 years. It's like if in the Ultimate universe when they brought peter back to life, he went back to being Spider-man. Just like Miles, Wally earned the Title and for many people he is the flash. In fact, most of the traits modern adaptations of the Flash give to Barry originate from Wally.

[@aidanshowers8366]

I think there clear solution is to keep character deaths permanent to prevent this confusion. But seeing as that’s extremely unlikely, the best thing IS to come up with new names for these characters. I think it’s easier for characters named after animals since you can find other creatures related to the main one. For example Kane could be named wolf spider, Laura could be badger, miles could be golden weaver (or ghost spider), Damian could be crow, etc.

[@A_Hylian_Not_An_Elf]

I this Red Web would be a cool name.

[@Swenglish]

Arguably the original comic book superhero, The Ghost Who Walks, The Phantom, was introduced from the very beginning as a legacy character. A name and approximate costume passed down from generation to generation, posing as the same entity. From a storytelling standpoint, I think it depends on why the moniker exists in the first place. But from a legal perspective, trademarks expire if they're not in use. Jon Kent II being Superman doesn't super work narratively, but if DC doesn't have a reasonably recently created character called Superman that people care about by 2036, they're gonna have a lot of competition when everyone else starts making movies about Clark Kent, and if they get outcompeted and stop making money off the Superman trademark, that shit's gone. They're trying to do for Superman what Barry and Wally did for The Flash. Jay Garrick will enter the public domain and nobody's gonna care, because he's the less popular Flash than the ones that will still be under copyright. All the Golden Age characters are pretty close to expiring, and the trademarks need to stay relevant independently of the characters in order to not become worthless. The Captain Marvel trademark already slipped through DC's fingers, and that's with the character still being under copyright.

[@roros9422]

Honestly the Wolverine mantle to me is fine being shared between Laura and Logan mostly because 1) they're really never on the same team at the same time so you know which one is being talked about and 2) they don't have secret identities at this point really so it is fine for them to just call each other Logan or Laura if need be.

[@dinobroofmf]

Perhaps on a merchandise level for spider-man specfically, a way to get around would be by calling Peter the 'Spectacular' or 'Amazing Spider-Man', and calling Miles thr 'Ultimate Spider-Man'. (in my head canon spectacular spider-man could be high school/ college era peter, and amazing is him in his prime) For Jane Foster maybe have them labled as Thor the Godess of Thunder and Thor the God of Thunder respectively. For Luara and Logan, thay would be a case were Luara gets the name Wolverine, and Logan is just Logan You can have Clint Barton: Hawkeye, and Kate Bishop: Hawkeye

[@sourisdebibliotheque]

Iron heart has a nice moment like that, where she chose her own name. She is kind of Ironman “heir”, but still her own person

[@mperezmcfinn2511]

She should've gone with Iron Maiden. If you have to follow Tony Stark it's probably better to go more metal.

[@matti.8465]

My take is that if the passing of the mantle is temporary then the name should be temporary. There are exceptions, when Miles Morales was created I doubt they ever intended to bring Peter back (this was just an alternate universe after all), and when he finally returned, it would have been weird to make Miles change his name after so many stories focused on him being worthy of the mantle. It's just been so long that Miles being Spider-Man is kinda set in stone. No other name will feed good enough, and changing it might contradict the whole point of the character.

[@Jeicemeiser]

But a huge part of his proving himself worthy of the mantle was him discovering and making peace with the fact that he wasn’t Peter and he didn’t have to do things Peter’s way. Taking on his own name would really cement his existence as his own person rather than someone constantly living in Peter’s shadow.

[@matti.8465]

@@Jeicemeiser I get what you mean, but after so much of "anyone can wear the mask" and "Miles is his own Spider-Man" it'd be weird to suddently twist it into a story of escaping Peter's Shadow. It's a little too late now

[@JojoTheVulture]

​@@matti.8465is it? There's always different continuities where that doesn't need to be the case.

[@Couch_Banana]

@@matti.8465 "Anyone can wear the mask" is just a metaphor for "Anyone can be a hero". It's not supposed to mean "Anyone can be called Spider-Man".

[@corbinowens2437]

I definitely think it's crazy how upset people get when Laura goes by Wolverine. I personally just call her X-23 tho, sometimes I lowkey feel bad since that's tied to her terrible childhood.

[@gabrielsantosesilva2082]

I desagree with The Flash, i mean, my profile picture speaks for itself, but man, The Flash is all about Legacy, he was the first legacy character to met his predecessor, and he was an fan of him, then Barry died and Wally assumed, and Wally was The Flash for more than 20 years, and through this whole time he earned the Flash mantle, The Return of Barry Allen storyline is the definitive tale about this, is not in vain that nowadays Wally is using his Classic suit again, that is part of his development as an character, he earned the title of his most prominent patern figure, and when Barry came back, he was an Flash as much as Wally, this is an specific case about legacy that i trully believe that if Wally changed his name it would be an regression to the character. Dick Grayson became Nightwing because he needed to get out of Batman's Shadow. Wally West became The Flash because that is who he inspired to be, and not only he became that person, some can say that he surpased his mentor, even Barry admits that.

[@tylrdk]

For Superman, sometimes the name they give the public is their Kryptonian name - so they’ll be called Kal El, Con El, or Jon El in the field or by the in world media to easily differentiate them

[@tylrdk]

Or Jor El for Jordan Kent

[@fissilereptile]

Something that's meta cheeky about Ghost Spider is that it abbreviates to GS, Gwen Stacy. I remember the one spiderman cartoon tried to run Miles as Kid Arachnid, and that just felt somewhat dismissive. Though remembering that I thought, why not Black Arachnid. but that teeters on the idea of naming a black character Black Something, which gets an additional level of potentially awkward because unlike Black Panther or Black Lightning, Miles is not exactly a standalone character, he is connected to the greater Spiderman Mythos. Like should we really call the Spiderman who is black, the Black One? That's my back and forth thoughts on that, I like the idea of Black Arachnid, but I recognize the potential issues with it.

[@AustynSN]

I kind of liked Tim going by "Drake" because it highlighted his slight inability to understand that figuring out secret identities with ease is a talent that not everybody has. In Tim's mind, secret IDs are so easy to figure out that you might as well not even try. Also, the fact that Damien always referred to him as "Drake" in the field makes it almost a necessity.

[@J94nene]

I honestly agree with this because some these characters are never able to escape the originals shadow. Like for me I didn't mind Miles being called Kid Arachnid in the cartoon and Tim Drake I always thought that Cardinal would be a cool name for him given his all red costume

[@BeatAces]

I think for characters who happen to frequently crossover with variants of themselves should take some influence from tokusatsu and have themed subtitles to distinguish. Even if it's as simple as characters take the name of the color their suit most uses

[@arempy5836]

An idea I had for Jon Kent is to bring back the names Superman Red and Superman Blue. Specifically, I thought you could do it for a future state with a dead/weakened/retired Clark where Connor and Jon both become Superman, Connor would be Red and Jon would be Blue. No power changes, just names and costumes.

[@Philibuster001]

To be honest I'd say Barry and Wally both being Flash works. Mostly because they rarely ever overlap with eachother. Wally usually takes on the "Protector of central city" role only when Barry isn't around. There's also the fact that Barry is considered the "Justice League" Flash while Wally is the "Titans" Flash.

[@andrewtitus6839]

Thank you! I'm so glad that someone has finally addressed this. This has always been a major pet peeve of mine in the comics.

[@Injusticelord]

I liked how they handle it in Young Justice. The league just has multiple characters with similar mantles and roll with it because they send them on different missions. Both Barry and Jay are Flash, the GL Corps is a peacekeeping force and Arthur and Kaldur are both Aquaman. I think it’s just cool to have multiple people in the roles.

[@MJ-SCUTI]

I'm pretty sure kaldur is the only aquaman now and Arthur just goes by king Orin/Orin now

[@SuperEasywalker]

@@MJ-SCUTI As of Season 4, Mera is the new ruler of the seven sea, so Arthur Curry is back to being Aquaman and so is La’gaan aka Lagoon Boy, and don’t get me started on the three Roy Harpers (Red Arrow, Arsenal, and The Guardian).

[@xavmanisdabestest]

I don't like that

[@-That_F_Guy]

@@SuperEasywalker Screw Lagoon Boy. All my homies hate Lagoon Boy

[@MJ-SCUTI]

@@SuperEasywalker actually I think you're right, my bad. Haven't had the time to rewatched season 4 as much as the others, thanks for the correction.

[@BigCMiner]

I completely agree with youre “the other one” take, as a captain america fan, when i talk about it people always mean steve until we then say Sam Wilson captain america, wich is also so strange because he had his own name before being cap, why not just have like falcon become some us bird name

[@TheSpeedMason]

The Green Lantern mix-up confusion is only done well in a fanmade project called Earth-27 where all human Green Lanterns gets different designation (like John as GL Alpha, Hal as GL Beta, Guy as GL Charlie, Kyle as GL Delta, Simon as GL Echo and Jessica as GL Foxtrot.) It's just a better way to differentiate the GLs, ya know.

[@ashlybuck5706]

The military radio lingo works. It makes sense for Hal especially.

[@Chuck_EL]

​@@ashlybuck5706 And Hal sometimes goes to other sectors (usually planets that anti earthlings to show how humane we can be ) and John is the earth sector Lantern In the comics the Guardians even mention these details so the green lantern mantle isn't confusing due to that plus The many alien Green lanterns who monitor other sectors and planets

[@ChristyAbbey]

Dude, it's ALL about Flash. Flash (Barry Allen) was the first to encounter a legit other Flash (Jay Garrick). Barry died in Crisis, the event that eliminated the multiverse for a while, and there were two Flashes running around. No one got confused. Or angry (well, Barry-heads like me, maybe). It still took a looooonngggg time before legacy characters were given the same name, but Crisis is the focal point of why it happened in the first place (the dead and another character taking the name is attributed to MPL "Archie" comics. Long story; some other time.) And when Barry came back and said Wally was still Flash, the floodgates, they be open. So not knowing why and how this started is a bit of an L, but i guess there aren't that many of us still reading comics 37 years later, so... Realizing this sounds like I'm slagging you off. I'm not. Love your channel, and in the words of the old joke, "Up 'til now, the soup's been good."

[@MGodfrey]

the Bat-family and the Robins in particular feel so cohesive as a unit with their common experience of operating as a Robin but also so unique and individual as they grow up as characters and graduate into their own identities its part of what makes the Batfamily/Gotham side of things work so well and build such deep and interesting stories. the Flashes on the other hand are mostly the same character. legacy characters should spend some time using the legacy mantle and then graduate into their own identity, or have the previous mantle-holder retire

[@yoshikagekira3009]

i mean both flashes i feel like deserve the mantel

[@KnuttyEntertainment]

Haven’t seen the video, but going off the title alone, then the answer is for the most part yes. There’s rarely a good in-universe reason to just take the old name. But there are of course some exceptions. Green Lantern is a good one.

[@nosfonader8792]

I think if it's holding the name and keeping the mantle alive until the original hero comes back (Logan to Laura over Wolverine and Kate Bishop to Clint Barton over Hawkeye) then I can see that as a small arc for the newer person. Then the new hero should have their own name after that. Like call Laura Hyper Claw, call Kate Trickshot or give her the Ronin mantle, call Miles Arach-Knight, call Riri Williams Mecha-Maiden after their stint as a place holder. This way their comics don't need to rely on the original hero's name to sell the new ones. Gwen Stacy did it when she was Spider-Gwen and is now called Ghost Spider. Marvel made some new Asian heroes that have their own names. Aero, Swordmaster, look up the Agents of Atlas comics. They did that right. With DC, they seem to be afraid of letting some characters be themselves. Why is Stephanie Brown not Spoiler full time? Why is Cassandra Cain not Orphan full time? I like Black Bat though. Keep Barbara Oracle. They have new characters like Ghost Maker, Clown Maker, Signal, Batwing (should have had him for Future State instead of Jace Fox) As for Sam Wilson as Cap, I don't mind it. If Nintendo didn't have Captain Falcon, I'm absolutely sure they would have called Sam Captain Falcon. That's probably the only reason Marvel didn't call Sam this. Same with Jane. It's annoying that she's called Thor but male Thor is still Thor. It's his name, not a costume name. Why not call Jane Thunderstorm? Problem solved with her. If she was called that, nobody would have been complaining about her having Mjolnir. Avengers Assemble cartoon gave her the name Thunderstrike and Odin made her a copy of Mjolnir and it worked. Brand recognition is the name of the game is what the huge problem is.

[@Jeicemeiser]

If I recall correctly, Thunderstrike actually exists in the comics. Eric Masterson was Thor for a while before Donald Blake came back, and when Blake came back Masterson took the name Thunderstrike. No idea what happened to him though…to the wiki page!

[@littlesparrow303]

Yeah I wish they used some of their names for DC in the Batfamily. For Gwen I really like the new name because it does hide her identity name. Even though she does reveal herself in her comics

[@nosfonader8792]

@@Jeicemeiser There was a Thunderstrike from the 90s, I think is still around. Jane being called Thunderstorm would work though

[@nosfonader8792]

@@littlesparrow303 I like Black Bat for Cassandra Cain. I like my Hyper Claw idea for Laura too. It's doesn't feel that hard to make an original name for a hero.

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

I get his confusion with the Flashes, he didn't even mention the fact that there are in fact two Wally West's, and BOTH are the Flash.

[@SylverDreamer85]

The most convoluted Marvel example I can think of is Spider-Woman. A vast majority of the time, we think of Jessica Drew, and that's fine. Then you have Julia Carpenter who like no one knows, but then she passed HER mantle on to Anya Corazon (Arana) when Julia became the new Madame Webb. But that still leaves two Spider Womans thwipping around town. Gwen Stacy from Earth-65 was in a rough spot. Her comic book was called Spider-Gwen and obviously she can't go by that. In HER universe she was Spider-Woman and when she started coming over to 616 and met all the others, she started to grow less and less attached to her name. Then in a Spiderverse event, everyone thought she died so when she comes back, Miles says he thought he saw a ghost when he saw her, and since she was going through this personal slump/character growth arc, she decided to go by Ghost Spider because of that comment. Kind of like when Bumblebee got a paint job in G1 Transformers and he said he looked like a Gold Bug and Optimus was like "COOL You're Gold Bug now!" I'm sure I'm forgetting another Spider-Woman somewhere but that's what I can think of for now. But I agree, I feel like giving mantles BACK to originals should be an opportunity for the character to grow and make their own new name. Arguably, Sam couldn't go back to Falcon because he trained a NEW Falcon in Joaquin Torres while he was Captain America. lol so.... rock and a hard place

[@ayayronm]

Lol i didnt think i wsd gonna get a Goldbug reference today, but here we are

[@jeppyjep]

Correction; Julia only gave her costume to Anya. Anya uses the name Spider-Girl, not Spider-Woman. The only women who has been Spider-Woman are Jessica Drew, Julia Carpenter and Mattie Franklin.

[@angelaphsiao]

Kind of ironic that one of the main reasons people give for reusing identities is that they want to say they have a “gay superman” or “black spiderman”, but trying to promote those various identities prevents the actual character from building their own identity

[@Eric_I_Guess]

It may not completely fix the issue, but I like canonizing the idea that Peter is the "Amazing" Spider-Man while Miles is the "Ultimate" Spider-Man. I kinda like the idea of them calling each other Amazing and Ultimate in the field. And I also agree that there being two Hawkeyes that refuse to rename is a great bit.

[@evanrobinson5682]

5:50, they ought to name Wally Professor Flash. He discovered the speed force during his run, and for a bit was going to be a physics professor- until they decided to make him more of a pastiche of Barry and be a forensic scientist.

[@yepimbatman]

Orphan as a name never made sense to me for Cass because not only was she adopted (no longer an orphan) but she is also one of the only Batkids with two living biological parents? And both her parents are significant characters so it’s not like you can just ignore them. I think Cass works as a character who can embody the mantle of Batgirl while the other former Batgirls have new code names

[@Iwillone]

Black bat never sounded right since the creature is natural that colour anyway.

[@msyoungau]

I would have thought Orphan fitted Stephanie better

[@lilchief1117]

I agree with you on this & I think that if a lot of these characters had their own hero names there wouldn't be see many people upset about this character being black or that character being a woman, etc., because they'd be their own person. Now I don't agree with the sentiment of those people, but I do think that if the characters had their names there might not be as much backlash from the more conservative fans who feel their beloved character's name is being tarnished or whatever

[@CometX-ing]

This conversation is one that’s basically impossible to have because you have people who want to just get rid of all diversity and will make the point that characters should have their own names entirely put of bad faith (thus muddy the overall opinion of that take) and those who push back against the notion that characters should be allow to have their own identities purely because “then the incel neckbeards win.” What you said is true, when talking about Spider-man, you don’t immediately think of Miles, you think of Peter, same with Wolverine and Captain America. While conceptually the idea of passing the torch is a great idea, it doesn’t work in comics where things will always need to revert back to what they were to some extent. Steve, Logan and Peter will always have their respective mantles because they are THE quintessential carries of those mantles. Unfortunately not everyone can get a Kamala Khan-esque passing of the torch, and in her case it required the death of someone no one really cared all that much about. I understand the symbolism behind it, but not only does sharing a mantle basically only serve to confuse people in the worst case and serve no real purpose in the best, it also kinda just robs the character of being able to strike out on their own make a name for themselves. Its a moment of growth where a character who has spent much of their existence in the Shadow of at the side of another character come into their own. Sure, characters can always move and be the specific hero of X locations, but at that point its like opening a new fast food chain. There’s no real sense of independence that doesn’t feel superficial.

[@thecolonel1457]

Do people want no diversity, or no forced, unearned, lazy diversity?

[@TinePizza]

I think the Flash name works for me because its like theyre a Flash "Family" so I see it as a last name I do not want the robin mantle to be shared by 2 characters at the same time though

[@johnbowen5220]

20:26 I've always called Miles the Ultimate Spider-Man, its not exactly the best in universe code name, but that's what I've always done and I will continue to do it

[@Champsr0ck2247]

The comics missed out on a great opportunity to give peter & Miles nicknames based on their comic book titles. Peter is the Amazing Spider-Man while Miles is Ultimate Spider-Man. Sounds silly in the field (too wordy and neither character would actually want that code name) but it works because Spider-Man always had adjectives attached to him might as well use em

[@Missing_Nin]

The thing is that once a character takes up that role you can’t exactly demote them back down to their previous codename in a clear way. Doing so undercuts them in a major way.

[@chrispilcher2024]

I feel like Jon Kent should pick a new name, He's the Second Superboy and He's the Second Superman, why not go with something like Superior, personally I refer to Jon as the Super-Neptotist, since he got the Superman mantle before the older Superman family members, With Tim Drake, Red Robin is his peak identity, keep the first Red Robin suit and go with a bird name that's also associated with the color red lika a Cardinal.

[@Yoshimitsu4prez]

Honestly, either ways fine for me. Whatever fits the character

[@Yoshimitsu4prez]

You’re right about the flashes btw. The current arc involves like 12 flashes. Wally’s wife and kids are flashes now

[@malord6686]

It reminds me of the old comics where the characters actually aged and grew families. Like the SpiderGirl comics. Is a legacy character yes, but makes sorta sense since in that universe or timeline, Peter Parker gave up his role as Spiderman due to a leg injury and that he wanted a normal life. And that's fine given there are other heroes around. Then his daughter takes his mantle once she discovers she has her father's powers. It was ok to do that since back then there wasn't a return of the old Spiderman. Until they did and now her comics feel like they fell into obscurity.

[@Caanths]

Tldr: Once the mantle passes on the original character should have a completely different name, despite death/de powering and then resurrection/gaining their powers back. Totally agree, would make the mantle being passed have much more meaning and depth, and give a new direction to an otherwise stale and old character. Spider-Man (as Nando pointed out) is a very tricky situation, as miles did pick up the Spider-Man mantle through his universes character dying. He has the rights to the mantle just as much as Peter Parker. I think when they’re in the same comic, giving them specific code names would be cool (including Peter Parker) to make comms easier and hide their identity. Doesn’t make the real world confusion any easier though. Very tricky.

[@Tyler_W]

I heard some people in the comments suggest both Redback and Shadow Spider, both names I would quite like for Miles. Miles did warrant the title, but not once he entered the main universe imo. He needs to be his own person with his own niche

[@A_Hylian_Not_An_Elf]

I don’t think a character has the rights to a name if they didn’t fight along with the original. So Miles didn’t deserve to be Spider-Man after Peter died, but Wally earned the right to be The Flash after Barry died.

[@TheShockVox]

Depends on the character and circumstance. Wally West earned The Flash name, and I wouldn’t have him be any other name, I don’t care that Barry is back. That being said, I think the only time it CAN bug me ironically is when the original character is still holding the name. I love Miles Morales and X-23, but the fact they’re both called Spider-Man and Wolverine despite Peter and Logan being right there and still using those names can be a little irksome. The main time this bugged me was in an unlikely place. In Young Justice season 4, Kaldur is Aqualad because Arthur Curry retired to be king. In Season 4 he retires from being king to become Aquaman again…so now there’s two Aquamen and that’s already a little annoying….but THEN Aquaman tells Lagoon Boy there’s no reason there can’t be 3 Aquamen since there’s like 4 green lanterns. That’s when I officially became annoyed when there’s concurrent holders of a name.

[@dilsonsteve9838]

I never heard of Miles called “Spin” in the cartoons (I don’t watch the present shows), but I remember being super surprised years ago, I came across Disney XD one night and they referred to Miles as “Kid Arachnid” and my mind was blown. I couldn’t help but think, why didn’t they use that in the comics when Miles merged into our universe? It only makes sense and it would appease the comic purists’ hatred of miles “being” Spider-Man. It also leaves room for him to grow up and be plain old Arachnid ( I know there was a villain arachnid but … in some continuity I’m pretty certain he’s dead). So I think that was the perfect solution to giving that character his own “identity” and I really believe there was a lack of communication between Disney XD’s animation team and Marvel comics editorial… because I just can’t see how anyone in a leadership position didn’t realize that was the way to possibly get the purist fans to accept the character.

[@lordofninjas1]

I think it's a fair opinion, especially if it's someone who's just getting into comics or just getting introduced to these characters, it could get very confusing very quickly. To be even more confusing, it's not just heroes that do it, villains do too. IIRC the Flash's main speedster enemies all use the "Reverse-Flash" name. It doesn't help that I believe Thawne, Barry's Reverse-Flash, also goes by Professor Zoom, while Zolomon, Wally's Reverse-Flash, goes by Zoom. It's not just them though, there's also 2 Mirror Masters in Flash comics as well (Sam Scudder and Evan McCullough), the Darkseid War story also told Batman that there are 3 Jokers (I know there was some kind of follow up on that, but I'm not sure what ever became of it), there's also multiple Cheetah's, as well as probably some other villains that I'm not thinking of right now. There's also names that weren't a problem initially, but are now, namely Shazam. Shazam is the name of the wizard that gave the character the powers initially, as well as an acronym describring the powers of the character he granted powers to. Initially the character was named Captain Marvel, however after Marvel sued to be the only one able to use the Captain Marvel name, that character on the DC side of things is just now Shazam. So the superhero is now Shazam because of the Marvel thing, but the wizard that gave Shazam his powers is also Shazam (they sort of fix it by giving the wizard the name Mamaragan or something like that in the Darkseid War story, but that didn't really help in the grand scheme of things). It gets even more confusing though, because most still know the character now known as Shazam as Captain Marvel and continue to call him that (I still do), but Marvel also has a Captain Marvel, so there is some cross company confusion with names as well. I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but I remember the Spider-Man cartoons also using the "Kid Arachnid" name for Miles at one point. Eventually Miles will age out of the name, but it's at least something that he could use for the time being. Marvel has also sort of come up with a way to solve the Laura/Logan thing with Wolverine, if they choose to use it. In the last I think it's like 6-8 years or so their family has expanded by giving Laura "sisters" (from what I understand they're clones of her, but she calls them sisters), and only one really survived, but she had a super name based on the real world scientific family of Wolverines (Mustelids) with the name Honey Badger. So, theoretically, Marvel could use that to give either Laura or Logan a different name should they feel so inclined.

[@mperezmcfinn2511]

Laura should have been Honey Badger from the start. Honey Badgers rule!

[@BadIdeaBoss]

I think there’s a couple of things with the Flashes, and an important concept that comes into play with characters like Sam Cap: when the original died/retired/disappeared, the character who took up the mantle was absolutely the right person for the job, had earned that title, and made it their own in a very important and personal way. Then, when the original comes back, it’s not as simple as changing the name or reverting to their previous title because they earned this role, it’s as much theirs as it is the original’s, and it would be wrong to make them change back. Honestly the best answer would probably have been to leave the originals retired/dead, but what the Flashes did recently that I like is that Wally is the Flash for the main DC continuity, while Barry goes off to be the Flash of the multiverse

[@Tyler_W]

I didn't mind Sam taking the stars and stripes. That works for me because he absolutely was the best dude for the job, but if Steve is around, he is Captain America. Sam needs to stay Falcon or given some other patriotically themed codename like American Eagle or something. He needs and deserves to be his own man.

[@colegillgrass3373]

Generally yes, legacy characters should get their own names. With the only exceptions being a new character taking up the mantle of a dead or missing character. And the other being like you said names that are not unique codenamed like green lantern. For instance. I'm fine with Miles taking up the name of Spiderman since he was being trained by Peter and when he died, took Peter's place in New York as Spiderman. Another I'm fine with are the Robin's once one dies or gets older and becomes his own hero, someone else comes in and takes the name.

[@thedizzytuna]

I absolutely agree with this take and most of the nuanced examples I'm fully on board with. My most controversial thing on this topic is probably that I really thought Kid Arachnid was a cool ass name

[@tono1768]

I understant The Flash thing, but it's kind of a spicial case. In the comics Bary was dead for more than two decades in real life and then came back. Wally was The Flash for all that time and yes now people say Barry is the main Flash. But Wally earned it, he is the longest running main Flash, he is also the fastest and the best of them so he can't just change back to Kid Flash now or just giving him a new name would not respect his larger legacy

[@ChainsawChungus]

On the Peter and Miles front, I think the best way to differenciate them, marketing wise and fan discussion wise is to use something like "Amazing Spider-Man" for Peter and "Ultimate Spider-Man" for Miles. Even then it's not perfect, ultimate sounds like it's better than amazing, but it's what fits the most for him, as that's the run he comes from. You could use something like "Spectacular Spider-Man" for Miles but it's something Peter has used before that Miles hasn't so I'm not so sure. In universe there's no way people would call them both Spider-Man I think, sure their official names could both be Spider-Man, but it would get too confusing in conversation, the people in the Marvel world would probably call them something unique for each one just to differenciate them, as a nickname.

[@HeadCannon19]

Miles is the weirdest case cuz I love him and giving him a different name would feel like a demotion and saying that he's not as important, but at the same time Spider Man IS Peter Parker, and having Miles be Spider Man sort of keeps him forever in Peter's shadow, so neither option feel good (I haven't read much comics but from what I understand it worked in the Ultimates universe where Peter actually permanently died, but in anything with both Miles and Peter it feels weird). I mean look at the PS4 games, it's kind of a weird example but you have Spider Man (with Peter Parker), then you have Spider Man: Miles Morales, then you have Spider Man 2 (with Peter Parker again). So it's sort of baked in that Miles isn't the actual spider man, cuz otherwise wouldn't it just be Spider Man 1, 2, and 3? Or at least the second Peter game would have a subtitle rather than just being called Spider Man 2? I mean obviously it's a direct sequel to the first Peter game but that's the problem: when you have Peter and Miles stories going simultaneously in the same universe, Peter's is the "actual" Spider Man series while Miles is still "the other" Spider Man, which wouldn't be the case if he actually had his own name (but again he has been Spider Man for so long so prominently that it would feel weird and almost disrespectful to change his name)

[@TheRealDaw19yoyo]

The Flash group has an even funnier version of this problem. Not only do multiple characters have the same Superhero name, two of them have THE SAME SECRET IDENTITY. New 52 erased the original Wally West and created a new biracial Wally. He was functionally the same character, except this version never grew up past being Kid Flash i.e. he never got married, never became the Flash. People started to call him Wally West II. THEN in Rebirth they decided to bring OG Wally back along with keeping Wally II, retconing them to being cousins, both named after the same Grandfather. Because DC doesn't hate us that much, they decided to have Wally II go by "Wallace West" to make things easier.

[@tximinoman]

So about the Flash thing; Barry Allen died in Crisis on Infinite Earths (1985), in one of the coolest and most iconic superhero deaths of all time (so did Supergirl later in that very same comic). He stayed dead up until 2008 (I think he did some appearances but he wasn't properly brought back until 08), during that time Wally West took over the mantle and was the main character in the most iconic run of the character. So for many people Wally IS The Flash. I get it may be confusing for some people but I think not making him the Flash is a mistake.

[@charlesgonzalez1406]

I'm pretty sure Wally West and Barry Allen dont ever work in the same city at the same time unless it's a big event, for example right now Wally is the main Flash for Central City while Barry is off on universal shenanigans, and before that happened Barry was the main Flash and Wally was off with the Titans so that was always a non issue Also I think Green Lantern having a secret identity is their choice and usually there is only one per team, for example John chose to not have a secret identity so if both Hal and John are on the same team (even if it's somewhat rare) the team would call Hal "Green Lantern" and John by his name, he really only needs the Green Lantern name because it's kinda like a job like when you have a police officer on the scene, most of the time you're just going to be called Officer, but if they want they could call you by your name (if they take time to read it)

[@greyborg3846]

I'm actually not opposed to the idea of just color coding most legacy characters. Like recently Wally West had a blue suit, so if he were working with other heroes they would probably just call him Flash but if he were on a team that also included Barry they could just refer to them as Red Flash and Blue Flash respectively. Same could go for many other characters. Like Jonathan Kent could change his suit to be primarily red instead of blue like his father's. He would just be Superman the majority of the time unless he happened to be working with his dad, then he'd just be Red Superman if someone needed to differentiate. It probably doesn't work perfectly for all cases, but it might help in some cases.

[@andaroos]

Unlike Spider-Man or Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman I feel 'Wolverine' is very specific to Logan because he earned that nickname/moniker throughout his long lifetime. I think that's true of a lot of X-Men so I don't see those names as particularly transferable. While watching the video though, I thought about legacy character names in Watchmen, which is a plot point of that novel (both with Night Owl and Silk Spectre) and leads to 'a deadly mistake'.

[@ryangreen8004]

Could you tell me more about that Watchmen part? It sounds interesting so I’d like to hear about it if you don’t mind

[@jaceclassay4589]

I will admit I know very little about X-23 Wolverine, but I agree with him about taking up the mantle because the OG died is very reasonable. Like Miles' Spider-Man and Dick's Batman. The major problem is that a comic character don't stay dead(its just a how long til they come back). It doesn't help that comics suck right now. Side point, I tuned out when he went into the woke talking points but other then that I don't feel there is a problem with multiple people having the same name I agree with his points. Also another problem is that most of the characters don't feel like they earn the name and only have because the writers want it to make a quota. Like lady Thor, that feels more like a what if story then a main line comic.

[@tompadfoot3065]

@@ryangreen8004 Nite-Owl (Hollis Mason) and Silk Specter (Sally Jupiter) were WW2-Era vigilantes. Mason passed on his moniker and gimmick to Dan Dreiberg, who became Nite-Owl 2. Sally groomed her daughter Laurie to be her replacement, Sill Specter 2. During the course of the Watchmen story, Nite-Owl 2 beats up a bunch of gang goons. The rest of the gang are out for revenge, and go to an elderly Hollis Mason's house thinking he is still Nite-Owl and beat him to death

[@ryangreen8004]

@@tompadfoot3065 Ah I see, thank you.

[@Iwillone]

Funny thing is that a female Wolverine is actually called an Angeline.

[@garypoisson2733]

You don't know that Barry Allen died in "Crisis on Infinite Earths"?! Geoff Johns has MUCH to answer for.

[@diefty94]

Unfortunately most of the new identities really suck, looking at you Drake. Nightwing is probably the only exception which is why it's the example everyone comes back to.

[@BartholomewHenryAllen]

I think Bartholomew Henry Allen had the right idea with alternate realities. Comic runs don't need to be connected to other comics and stories from other series, nor do they have to be a continuation or fix of someone else's stories. Every project should be it's own special project. Back then, comics were just self-contained stories with occasional cameos; however, most comics seem to abuse the idea for blatant promotions at the cost of proper storytelling. Most of the promotions that are messing with proper story telling just so happen to be a higher focus on PC culture, at the cost of proper storytelling, as opposed to entertainment being the main focus. Nowadays, you can't get a good story without spreading your attention unreasonably thin with extra unnecessary content. Barry Allen also seemed to have the right idea when it came to reboots. There's never been a need to permanently change characters just to have other writers deal with them later on. Just use both versions so that everyone gets what they want. This is why nobody complained about Jay Garrick getting swapped with Barry Allen while Wally West comics had 10 years of complaints before the change of consumers dulled down to controversy. And the exact same thing happened with the Green Lanterns as well. It was bringing everyone back for their consumers that made everyone happy, without having to sacrifice consumers. And it's not like they can't all get there own stories either. Golden Flash (Jay Garrick) (ENTP) {learning how to deal with limitations in tough situation}, The Flash (Bartholomew Henry Allen) (INTP) {learning to slow down except emotions and live life}, Titan Flash (Wally Rudolph West) (INFJ) {learning to deal with drama in a broken home}, Impulse (Bartholomew Henry Allen II) (ISFP) {learning to deal grow up and deal with expectations}, Kid Flash (Wallace West) (ISTP) {learning self control and how to trust}, Tomato… Tornado Twins (Dawn and Donald Henry Allen) {learning to see 2 sides of a situation}, Jace Allen, and Blaze Allen can all get their own universes and fitting titles without having to replace the other. Golden Green Lantern (Alan Scott) (ISTJ) {learning to not judge situations or others without considering both sides}, The Green Lantern (Hall Jordan) (INTJ) {learning to take action and consider opposing the popular beliefs}, White Lantern (Kyle Rayner) (INFP) {Learning how to properly deal emotions in a healthy manner}, Teen Green Lantern (Jordana Gardner) (ESTJ?) {Learning how to present yourself and make honest decisions}, Kid Lantern (Keli Quintela) (INTJ?) {Learning to stop being egoistic}, Killowog (ENTP), John Stewart (ISTJ), Simon Baz, Jessica Cruz (ISFP), and Guy Gardner (INTJ). DC is already filled with all sorts of characters that don't have quite as many writers for, but it all depends on where they put their focus on and the people they put in charge of projects. They don't have to be online with each other if they're kept within their own universes, which would also mean writers can have more freedom to get away with unexpected changes, without having to deal with restrictions imposed by other stories. One writer could take on a full life story for each character in a way that would allow them to fit how they need them to fit, while any other writer could still do their own thing, their own way, with their own universe, even though it's stories written for the same characters. Batman already seems to have too many stories and writers anyway. Take his writers and spread them out! They can make new interpretations of the original comics if they're not interested enough, so they can prove themselves as worthy writers anyway.