Why Are Batman Movies Afraid Of Robin?

[@seank.2589]

The films: Avoid Robin. The comics: Aquire all the Robins.

[@marxist-leninist-protagonist]

smile robin girl batman dead robin smart robin girl robin girl robin 2 dark robin dark girl batman black... robin? Gotta catch'em all!

[@Draliseth]

They just love pushing that Robin button. Might as well be Goku with a muffin button.

[@jarlstudios]

@@Draliseth Or Cell with a Goku button?

[@TheWizardGamez]

Pokémon, gotta catch ‘em all

[@o.8.p149]

@@marxist-leninist-protagonist black robin hasn’t happened yet

[@columbalivia401]

,,My name is Richard Grayson, but all the kids in the orphanage call me Dick'' ,,Well, children can be cruel'' Lego Batman is an underrated masterpiece

[@ihavespoken9871]

“Like I said, Jack, kids are cruel! And I am very in touch with my inner child!”

[@yadiraaguilar2035]

Remember when DC tried to change it to Rick? The fandom literally when “HIS NAMES NOT RICK”

[@dogpenguin1239]

@@yadiraaguilar2035 we don’t talk about Rick Grayson

[@wesleycook7687]

@@dogpenguin1239 Or Dick Tracy.

[@jacobchandler7642]

@@ihavespoken9871 I'm a simple man. I see a Sundowner quote in the comments, I leave a like.

[@OwenLikesComics]

I saw a tweet recently that said 'Dick Grayson is what all parents imagine they'll accomplish with their children.' I don't think anything sums up the importance of Robin in the Batman mythos better than that.

[@EM-rm2xh]

Wow, I like this. Thanks for the comment.

[@luxsuperbia1531]

and Jason is what every parent fears will happen to their children.

[@SoApparentlyINeedAHandle]

And then next there’s Jason

[@kevinsachdev2920]

Yeah, Dick is the best Robin no doubt

[@fjccommish]

In Ubermensch, UM and She Wolf retrieve their son from the past, as a boy, after as an adult he kills many of the world's heroes and is himself killed by Alpha Man.

[@chairmanm3ow]

I remember the anti-Robin sentiment after Batman Begins and there was absolutely nothing behind it. "Robin makes the movies campy!" No, those movies were campy and happened to have Robin in them. They also had the Riddler and Two-Face and Mr Freeze and nobody ever said they never wanted to see those characters again. Nobody blamed them for the tone of the film. I felt vindicated when they included him in the Arkham games and he fit right in to this grimey horror universe without compromising it. But it was still frustrating that fans couldn't see it and didn't have the imagination for it before.

[@tatehildyard5332]

Yeah. Looking back, a lot of those comments reek of desperation to defend this idea or Batman as a figure of “masculine purity”. When people say they love, serious, dark Batman, they often mean they love the idea of him as a being of pure, undiluted masculinity. They like Batman as a manly man’s man who only does manly man things and feels manly man feelings and having a child sidekick dilutes the manly man factor because a child is not a manly man.

[@chairmanm3ow]

@@tatehildyard5332 that's incredibly accurate

[@tatehildyard5332]

@@chairmanm3ow Thank you. Men kind of suck.

[@hmm7458]

@@tatehildyard5332 lmao i laugh really hard after reading your comment

[@MrXiphos7]

@@tatehildyard5332 what's wrong with that?

[@wjzav1971]

I think the whole "child soldier" aspect could be remedied by Dick Grayson deciding on his own to pick fights with criminals to find his parents' killer and Batman realizes that he can't stop him from getting into trouble, so he might as well teach him how to be smart about it.

[@spectralight8412]

That's literally Robin's entire backstory. Bruce never recruited him.

[@avoidant560]

*Bruce picked him up.

[@FunnyAnimatoFilms]

Leon The Professional

[@minato_arisato3751]

​@@avoidant560 but not to be robin

[@dafilmqueen556]

@@avoidant560, not really, he adopted Dick because he was the only one who could understand his pain. It's complicated: Bruce takes in Dick, Dick decides he wants revenge on his parents' killer, Bruce doesn't want Dick to be a killer himself or be simply another dark copy of him, so he creates Robin (which is actually a nickname that Dick's mom gave him, hence the bird and bat family thing) to keep Dick from going off on his own and motivate the kid towards better goals. As Funny Animato here says, Leon The Professional style

[@angie.castle]

The fact that Robin WASN'T dark is what I loved about him. He brought life back to Batman and was a ray of hope in dark Gothem. And, as you said, it forced Bruce to grow in order to raise and train him.

[@chairmanm3ow]

conversely, I hate that Terry McGinnis feels like another Robin while calling himself Batman. Batman should come with a weight, almost like a curse. The Batman persona should be transferred to Terry, which slowly consumes him, thus necessitating his own surrogate family. no it doesn't need to be a futuristic Robin, Batgirl, etc but he should be (for lack of a better term) poisoned by the Batman identity and need to seek out a support system to keep him in check.

[@Notwhitesilkedits]

Fr I totally agree, but *Gotham

[@rosie5470]

"light to Batman's shadow"?

[@jasonborne238]

Jason tim and Damian are pretty dark

[@samuraijackoff5354]

@@chairmanm3ow Terry was sort of like Grayson if Bruce gave him the chance to be Batman. Grayson didn't get the chance or want the chance to be batman when he left and became nightwing.

[@mizzbelle97]

I think the end of “The Batman” really felt different. He wasn’t isolated, he was surrounded by the community of people he was trying to help. It felt so refreshing seeing Batman actually interact with the people he cares about rather than just fight bad guys and be angry. I hope it’s a sign of them returning to a more well rounded Bruce Wayne fighting crime because he loves his community and family, not just hating bad guys.

[@myralee1760]

My favourite version of batman is actually Batdad. Because he is so awkwardly brooding and angsty but he's surrounded by teenagers whom are arguably more dramatic and angsty then he is. Makes him a really relatable father to them.

[@normalhuman9878]

* cough cough * The Lego Batman Movie * cough cough *

[@MajorDude14]

I hope we also see his development of combat and gadgets.

[@blokey8]

I've only just encountered this now (except for Lego Batman) that I've begun reading comics, and started in earnest with Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo's run.

[@blokey8]

@@MajorDude14 Given that Pattinson and Reeves have expressed hopes of depicting the Court of Owls and Mr Freeze, respectively, it would seem things are set to get more heightened.

[@jacobkirk1846]

I think Batman with and without Robin are almost two completely different characters, and you almost need a trilogy for each era of his life to do it justice. A trilogy focusing on a younger Batman’s struggle to make a difference, then a trilogy focusing on Batman and Robin in a much more hopeful era where it finally feels like his actions are starting to make a real impact.

[@InjusticeJosh]

A Batman Saga so to speak

[@bobdylan1968]

Hopeful?? It's not done because it's insanely bad writing. It makes Bruce evil. It makes Bruce the bad guy. He's making child soldiers lol. That's not hopeful. It being framed that way is nonsense. In a live action movie even remotely taking itself seriously, there would be zero excuse to have a robin and have Batman be remotely justified. There is no situation where that is justified.

[@danubeisreallypeculiarrive7944]

Then Joker beats 2nd Robin to death because Bruce can not have a happy life for long.

[@jacobkirk1846]

@@bobdylan1968 good writers realise that Robin isn’t supposed to be a child soldier. Robin is someone who Bruce helps confront his grief and gives a better chance at life than he ever got. Robin is supposed to be the Watson to Batman’s Holmes, not just someone who beats up criminals. Most of the time Batman doesn’t want Robin to help him fight crime, but he ends up proving himself.

[@bobdylan1968]

@@jacobkirk1846 DUDE, Batman is sending a CHILD out to physically fight serial killers on rooftops. Give me a break. Under no situation is that "healthy coping with grief". Are you joking? Like c'monnnn. No, BAD writers do what you just suggested. That's utter nonsense. Get the kid a therapist??? Batman is selfish. He's PROJECTING his issues into the kid. Dude, some writers DO address this. Especially in Robin centered storylines. Where Bruce DID absuseeeee them. Listen to dick speak about it, or Jason. Dick says all the time that he is not Bruce, that what Bruce did was not okay, and that he does not want to be Bruce. Both Jason and Dick have turned in Bruce for his behavior with robins. JASON DIED lol. Batman got the kid killed. Tortured. Tortured. A child.

[@subliminallyobsolete2352]

I've literally been wanting a GOOD Batman and Robin movie for so fucking long. I think people who hated on Robin weren't really into the comics imo

[@rinasakurai8857]

You are correct. Most Batman fanbois are fans of the grimdark non emoting Batman that punches criminals and that's it. And vicariously live through that. They don't care for nor like anything regarding the Batman mythos or comics.

[@rapidreaders7741]

Not only the comics, they also probably haven't seen one of the best pieces of batman media to ever exist - the animated series. Or anything related to DCAU for that matter.

[@prathameshbhonkhade7801]

may be they are hating due to Batman and the Robin movie

[@youllneverfindme933]

I'll be honest, I liked batman when I was younger. He was great but something never clicked that made him my favourite. Then I started reading the comics. I fell in love with his relationship with Robin and other people. I feel like Batman needs another character to bounce off of to be at his best.

[@tomgiddens2963]

Agreed.

[@velvetisis]

I've believed for a while now that when people say they want to be Batman, they actually want to be Nightwing. All the coolness, far less of the crushing emotional weight

[@410btm7]

Facts

[@Vegitodraws]

That's why Nightwing is my favorite superhero

[@nickasaro8789]

The more and more I think about it I think Nightwing might be one of my favorite superheroes.

[@vladv5126]

To me, Nightwing is mainly just Batman with daddy issues. I prefer him over the typical Robin role but I do kinda roll my eyes when the "robins" show up in the comics.

[@Vegitodraws]

@@vladv5126 not really. Nightwing is on pretty good terms with his parental figures. Alive and dead. Jason is really the one with daddy issues, considering the whole, "dying alone in a dirty warehouse because my mom betrayed me" thing.

[@larxenejeevas]

"without Robin, Batman never becomes a Father so he never has to grow up" well put!! i believe most edge lords love the dark side of Batman bc they can see themselves in him but...that's the worst part of Batman, the best part of the character is overcoming the grief and without Robin he's just...stuck in there, in the pain in the loss, people who dislike Robin bc he means hope for Batman are weak, the best part of everything is character development without that you're basically telling a story for...nothing

[@kmaximusconnor3665]

I think that all really depends on how you view Batman, as a tragedy vs an more happy story, things like Batman beyond for instance show Bruce’s ending as a tragedy. He’s stuck in a cave alone without any friends or family until Terry comes around. Bruce drove them all off. Batman beyond is an excellent show and still manages to take the character in a sort of sad direction so I don’t think Bruce is necessarily a bad or uninteresting character when he doesn’t grow out of that. He’s just a tragic one.

[@AgentLemmon]

I don't know what is exactly "edgelord" about that lol

[@cardo92w]

I think the fear for true comic book fans, is not getting Robin right, especially with the current Batman. If they can protray him correctly, the way Hitgirl as a side kick, in that world, was for Kickass. He should be youthful, fun, not comical, but humorous, and have the skills. Correct actor, director and tone for Robin, would definitely work. Honestly, Tom Hollands Peter Parker/ Spiderman is a good starting point to work from.

[@Serryy]

Buddy how about you tune down your judgement and Psycho analysis why some people might prefer a movie without Robin. Robin is just a weird concept. Batman taking in a child to fight crime is disturbing, not hopeful. It's him ensuring that the cycle doesn't end. It's Batman trying to prove himself right. If it's possible for Gotham to live without a Batman after his death, then could he have been wrong? So instead of acknowledging that thought he trains children to become him.

[@pn2294]

@@Serryy crime never truly disappears; someone will always try to be a villain Robin has his own motives for wanting to be a superhero. That’s why he’s willing to take up the responsibility.

[@MegaTech81]

I had a professor in film school who told us about how his goal is to create a screenplay for a Robin movie. He wanted it to be a coming of age character study that addresses concepts like how messed up it was for Batman to allow him to fight crime, but at the same time shows how he was generally better off for it. I still think about this concept every now and then. In fact I think most characters from the Batman mythos can be literal gold mines for Hollywood if they just took them seriously.

[@attabooii]

I absolutely love Dick Grayson as a character. The fact that a person so bright and optimistic came from such a dark background and city is commendable. And I love how so many other superheroes in DC respect Dick Grayson so much.

[@terrellnewbill4273]

I forget the issue or details, but I loved when Nightwing was fighting a Batman villain and was in a tough spot and whoever it was said “You’re not quite like Batman” And he’s like “I’m not! I have friends” then multiple triple A heroes just come out of the woodwork and finish the fight

[@jaijoerik6233]

I also absolutely love Dick 😘😘

[@BrianZuma]

The titans show is sooo good they take a little too long for my taste to make him Nightwing at first but they rly do him well in the last season

[@DarkPascual]

2 of my favorite DC heroes are Batman and Superman... Dick Grayson to me is the best of both, that's why he's in my top 3 along the Big 2

[@july8studio]

yesss i love that Dick Grayson is kinda the opposite of batman in that regard with the DC heroes.. Everyone respects Batman... but everyone LOVES Dick Grayson. Outside the Big 3, him and wally west are probably the "glue" of the DC universe.

[@diegopansini3152]

Before I see this video, let me just say that this reminds me of a Young Justice quote: Wonder Woman: "...you indoctrinated Robin into crime fighting at the ripe age of nine" Batman: "Robin needed help to bring the man who murdered his family to justice" "So he could turn out like you?" "So that he *wouldn't* " I can see Pattinson's Batman use this exact mentality for when he takes on a child to fight crime with him. Remember that look he gave to that kid who had his parents murdered in the beginning? I can see it alright. Imagine how grounded it would be, while at the same time, Dick could be a bit of a comic relief like Penguin was in this movie to balance out the grimness

[@Ben10man2]

Thiiiis

[@backtoklondike]

Plus he would a perfect character to use for exposition for. As Bill Finger said (that Patrick pointed out in the video) Robin is the Watson. Matt Reeves is clearly focusing on Batman being a detective (why it took so long for someone to do that, IDK) so Robin can be there asking Batman questions throughout the movie. And hell, Watson is another character that got a resurrection these past years. He was always seen as bumbling idiot when in the books, he is very capable himself. Then Guy Ritchie and Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss pointed out that Watson is actually awesome and very necessary for Holmes stories. It can happen to Robin too

[@diegopansini3152]

@@backtoklondike right on the nose!

[@jeffbrownme2]

Or he starts training Robin privately but since he's so young he of course doesn't want him going out and fighting until his older. Conflict there between a headstrong 13 to 14 year old wanting to fight and a father figure telling him hes not ready.

[@robsonwaterkemper]

If Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale made Robin work in Dark Victory comic series (a sequel for The Long Halloween) it has no reason it couldn't work in dark grittier Batman live action movie.

[@andrewjeisenman]

I really think that The Batman is setting up for a Robin. That monologue about hope felt like the thing Darwyn Cooke did with Batman changing his look and style and recruiting Robin when he scared a kid.

[@spider-man817]

plus the heavy focus on orphanhood and what it does to a person

[@pagesoflines]

That darwyn cooke moment from new frontier was one of my absolute favorites

[@andrewjeisenman]

@@pagesoflines It’s just the best.

[@NCO643]

Reeves and Pattinson have said they're interested in using Robin in a future movie. So that gives me hope.

[@whysosnappy8016]

@@NCO643 This is also very unlike Bale and Nolan who openly criticised and despised the character of Robin. The chances of Robin showing up in the future are pretty high tbh

[@MetalCaffeine56]

I think people forget that the only one Bruce ever really "recruited" was Jason (and look how that turned out). All the others were either were born into it, already fighting crime or were going to anyways, so Bruce decides to train them so that they wouldn't get themselves killed.

[@NinjapowerMS]

People also forget Bruce was in the same shoes and look how he turned up into.

[@KutluMizrak]

@@NinjapowerMS SOme would argue turning into an obsessed brooding violent vigilante is not exactly a healthy outlet to make a difference when you are billionaire and much easily affect change in Gotham via careful social investment and renovation.

[@NinjapowerMS]

@@KutluMizrak Which he does and often donates his money to whatever. Gotham is just a shit show full of corruption and embezzlement.

[@Drums_of_Liberation]

​@@KutluMizrakconsidering the number of time Bruce has invested into restoring Arkham and the place still looks like it should have been condemned decades ago kind of proves that Batman using his wealth as Bruce Wayne is a losing battle

[@linasayshush]

​@@KutluMizrakIf some would argue that, then some probably shouldn't read comic books.

[@cartoonishidealism582]

There’s a relatively simple solution - have Robin be involved in crime fighting before Batman meets him. It’s the angle that a lot of recent additions to the Batfamily have taken - Cassandra Cain, Damien Wayne, Stephanie Brown and Duke Thomas were ALL deeply involved in fighting crime before Bruce adopted them. It takes some of the heat off of Bruce for being irresponsible as he’s not training these kids into risking their lives to fight crime - these kids were already doing that, and he can’t stop them. So instead he directs their behaviour towards something positive, and accompanies them to keep them safe. I mean realistically of course there’s still BETTER WAYS to help these kids, but it at least makes the concept of Robin easier to swallow in a more “grounded” setting. So maybe Bruce isn’t there to witness the Flying Graysons’ deaths, but he hears about it on the news. And then he comes across some kid trying to fight a bunch of criminals, in a homemade costume modelled after the Batman. He discovers the kid is Dick Grayson seeking vengeance for his parents’ murder, and he tries to keep the kid away from the fight, but fails. Every time Dick escapes and somehow gets involved. That, along with how he sees himself in Dick, causes him to relent and allow Dick to fight alongside him to avenge his parents.

[@justcraziii]

I like it, but it could follow canon by Dick being bored and alone in the Wayne household and he is triggered by a news article that Zuko (the animated series gangster who was sabotaged the Graysons acrobat equipment due to refusing Zuko's protection racket offer) escaped while on bail. Dick then uses his ample free time to play detective and sneaking off in the night. Bruce eventually finds him while they're both tracking down Zuko. Dick, not knowing who Batman is reveals his personal feelings and the two reconcile by the end of the story. I also like the older Robin from Arkham Knight video game. Helpful from the lab and is support for Barbara.

[@rot4743]

i agree also Dick was always going to go after his family's murderer and Jason was always going to steal something so him teaching them how to fight is important to their safety

[@starhunter9085]

*It's actually amazing to me how we almost never get Robin even though he's an integral part of Batman's mythos but, everywhere you turn, Joker is being shoved down your throats. I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*

[@jaimeruiz7837]

As of a few years I thought a neat way to bring Dick into the world would be to have Haileys Circus actually be a training ground for Talon cadets. That way Dick not only has the acrobatics, but the embers of something darker. Batman finding and taking him would be what happens with Damien but he saves the kid before he becomes a full fledged Talon. That way he hasn’t killed anyone, and the reason his family was taken out can be the same. A bunch of gangsters wanting protection money, and then bam. So Bruce becomes Dicks light and on top of that. Bruce isn’t just trying to save Gotham from villains but villains from villains. You could start an arc for The Court of Owls and have it all be about Dick.

[@Xharaly]

@@jaimeruiz7837 that's a real storyline in the comics. The circus is where they recruit children.

[@thedapperdolphin1590]

“Dark and brooding person learns to grow after getting a kid,” is a fairly common story setup with lots of potential. On the gaming end of things, both The Last of Us and the new God of War have different takes on this story to much success, so definitely something that weird nerds are able to get into.

[@moyhdehehe9493]

dont forget twd games

[@GingeryGinger]

There’s also the other end with Robin aswell. Leaving Batman shadows and trying to find his own identity is a pretty good story arc that dick Grayson generally pulls off really well. You also have Jason Todd which grounds the story and Batman who’s really interesting both fighting and conflicting with dicks Robin legacy but also when he dies and how Batman reacts to this and how it affects Tim drake. I’m not gonna get into damian or Steph because I don’t read much of their comics but yeah they exist.

[@ilikeyt414]

@@GingeryGinger Damian can show bruces efforts of trying to actually deal with a Robin whose darker than him while bruce is against killing now he has his sidekick whose supposed to bring the best out of him attempting to kill so now it's less about bruce needing a robin to grow and robin needing bruce to grow, and in the case of steph her time as robin isnt neccesary to any story she was cast aside after breaking one of bruces rules her time as robin was just her in the place of tim when his own real father kept him from being robin

[@radonbox6569]

Mandalorian even

[@emerson_5]

Arguably one of the best Superhero movies, Logan, also uses the “getting a kid” trope to great effect.

[@CaribbeanCitizen]

Batman adopts so many kids and I honestly I like him more when he has family. The father-child dynamics are an interesting contrast to his usual demeanor. In conclusion, put Robin in a movie you cowards

[@hollandscottthomas]

Yeah, I think a big weakness of modern cinematic attempts of Batman has been the lack fo the Bat-family. The good news is, they didn't ruin the concept yet and it looks like we're primed to get a good version built.

[@WannabeWryter]

There's a Batman Family Drama Series just waiting to happen. Someone competent just has to make it. Mabye something like Encanto

[@Raelis_]

There's a Batman webtoon comic focusing on the batfamily relationship.

[@CaribbeanCitizen]

@@Raelis_ Yes! I read it, it's fantastic

[@FraserSouris]

With the Nolan and Snyder Batman films, there's not really a spot to fit in Robin without it overcomplicating the story and even being a bit redundant in places. For example, you don't need to give Nolan or Snyder's Batman a "Watson to his Holmes" when Alfred exists and they can talk over the radio. Plus Batman's character in these films has a specific arc he's going through that a Robin can't really fit into. In Nolan's films, it's the story of Batman establishing himself. You kinda need an already established and active Batman in order for him to then take in a Robin. And by the time Batman establishes himself in those movies, The Joker is already there. So unless you want a movie that deals with both Batman dealing with Joker and the origin of the Robin, it's probably wiser to leave Robin out and focus on Joker. And in Snyder's version, Robin needs to be dead to be that extra reason to push Batman into his darkness. In Reeve's Batman, it could work as a sequel given Batman's position.

[@PhantomObserver]

One thing you haven't really mentioned: not so much age, but aging. Given that it takes a minimum of 2-3 years to make a live-action from concept to premiering on-screen, hiring an actor in their early teens to play Robin for one movie means you have to figure out how to deal with how much that actor has aged in appearing as that same character in the next movie. Physiognomy changes, voice changes, and (in an acting agent's view) legal status changes. I don't imagine there are that many producers who want to deal with those extra problems, but would prefer to have a character post-puberty for a movie franchise.

[@InjusticeJosh]

Keeping the same actor is ideal but I wouldn’t care if they recast in this instance

[@wyattcole5452]

@@InjusticeJoshrecast to another kid? Lets hope that kid has a younger brother who can act

[@InjusticeJosh]

@@wyattcole5452 I meant showing the passage of time. Maybe in one movie there’s a kid but in the next he’s a teen and then in the finale he’s a young adult. That young adult actor will stay as Dick Grayson or whatever Robin for the rest of the cinematic universe. Or they could also do a thing where since Brave and the Bold is a movie where Batman is already old and is on stage 4 aka Damien, then there can be flashbacks of young Dick Grayson or young Tim Drake like what Titans did.

[@wyattcole5452]

@@InjusticeJosh they might be able to do that with an actor if they film the movies right

[@Mugen2024]

There are adults who look like teenagers, it's easy

[@tobbyjusto123]

I´ve been thinking about this for sometime, and at first i thought of the obvious reason that is child endangerment. But then i remembered that Peter Parker was 15 when Tony Stark recruited him to fight a "civil war" against other grown up heroes. Robin is such a wonderful part of the mythos, and I would love to see any iteration of the character.

[@MademoiselleRed1390]

THIS!

[@beegyoshi800]

I mean, to be fair, Spider-man is extremely physically strong compared to most of the people on Captain America's side. But yeah, that was fucked up

[@jackadoni]

super

[@jackadoni]

powers

[@Bardim18]

Spider-Man was already established before Stark found him, Stark merely gave him a new suit.

[@ethanhansen1479]

The teen titans go scene with Alfred getting a movie is hilarious knowing he legit got a show

[@magallanesagustin4952]

And now Batgirl is getting her own movie. Poor Robin 😂

[@everyone4352]

The prophecy held true

[@DToTheB]

Best part is the scene after, where it says the batmobile gets a movie (the batmobile is now getting it's own series)

[@normalhuman9878]

Alfred deserves it

[@calibjames9809]

Better when they get the belt movie!

[@StopCallingMeShirley1180]

Matt Reeves has established that the Bat-family is his focus as opposed to the Justice League, so I have high hopes for us getting at least one Robin out of his movies.

[@gooeybowser9332]

Would love to see Robert Pattinson batman adopt all 50 bat kids in one movie

[@ricardoaguiar179]

seing as i THINK he is setting up court of owl, you cant really do that story (well) and accurately without dick grayson

[@uniworkhorse]

New title: THE BATFAM

[@gabbar51ngh]

Reeves made it evident he's making a Batman centric universe rather than entire DC.

[@daviscovers5231]

@@gabbar51ngh Which I’m fine with, lately it seems single isolated dc stories are better than combing them all into a big universe

[@RevengeoftheBallen831]

8:31 and I’m just sitting here waiting for these people to realize that Batman’s worst enemy is freaking CLOWN.

[@Khainite]

For me, the various Robins, Batgirls, and other supporting characters in the Bat family are an essential part of Batman's story and a natural progression in Bruce's journey as Batman. Hollywood's obsession with keeping Batman a dark, brooding loner takes away so much from his character, and anyone who harbors some ridiculous hatred for Robin as a concept clearly isn't very well versed in Batman's mythos. Odds are those sort of people are movie watchers and nothing more. I hope one day we get to see the whole Bat family in action. The Arkahm games did pretty well with some of them, so here's hoping we see more of that.

[@thebatmanwhoposts9600]

The Arkham games are over-the-top full-on superhero games tho, The Batman is in an ultra realistic universe. They aren't comparable, Batman can be a dark and brooding loner even WITH the Batfamily and he can be the opposite without them. In the Whedon cut of JL Batman is more optimistic and lighthearted basically being the DCEU version of Tony Stark and is a team player. All that despite not having any sidekicks.

[@alexwyckoff8962]

Agreed. For me, one of the best parts of Batman is watching Bruce grow. Imagine getting to see this Batman grapple with what happened to Jason. Or seeing his redemption when he begins training Tim.

[@eliasakkerman4597]

I've been waiting for a Nightwing movie since I was a 3rd grader.

[@deltaovalpanda7805]

It starting to look bright with one character who in the comics is one of Bruce's sidekicks already in the DCEU (being Cassandra Cain) and a batgirl movie coming soon (idk if it suppose to be in the DCEU it looks like we're finally getting the batman sidekicks though all we need is a new Robin for the DCEU

[@utopian4769]

Hollywood just has this weird infatuation with all things grim and gritty outside of the MCU. Everything seems to need a dark undertone in order to keep people invested, and so Hollywood thinks that putting an emphasis on that will make Batman more appealing. But like you said, normie movie goers who hate Robin and his other sidekicks are missing a big part of what makes Bruce human. The writers of DC cartoons like the Timmverse Batman seem to know this better than any Hollywood executive seems to.

[@Everik-ct6pg]

It genuinely annoys me how many movies we've gotten where Robin isn't a part of it. In my Opinion, Robin is necessary in the story of Batman. Dick Grayson was Bruce's biggest success, Jason was his greatest failure, Tim Drake was his redemption, and Damian is arguably one of his greatest challenges. These all have amazing movie franchise potential that no one has tapped into yet

[@timsimpson3804]

Damian doesn't exist in my Canon. That whole concept is trash. "The bat family" concept is trash. Cheesy and goofy. Takes away from the realistic elements. The best batman stories are when it's just batman. No sidekicks.

[@timsimpson3804]

At this point we got... Batman Robin Red Robin Nightwing Red hood Batgirl A black Batman? Oh and they all know Bruce is Batman lol. It's like the avengers

[@vividquatricia4687]

@@timsimpson3804 but there are stories from the comics about the Bat family that are actually good thou

[@Everik-ct6pg]

@@timsimpson3804 why the fuck would you want batman to be realistic though??? You can get grounded without going realistic.

[@RustyBrickStudios]

@@timsimpson3804 You realize the dark knight returns had a robin right. She played a huge role in the story and it’s literally a top 3 Batman book.

[@liarodriguez9119]

I die for the idea of a brooding man surrounded by adopted children, that's like my number 1 fav aspect of the character

[@wavewingman5993]

Robin is absolutely bursting with potential for a gritty film adaptation. The parallels to Batman's own tragedy, the strained surrogate father-son relationship, it's all got massive potential.

[@CyberdarkHellKaiser]

Personally I love when writers will explain Robin (Dick) as a kid that's too skilled to be held in anything short of a prison because of his physical training and is going out at nights looking for the person who killed his parents and Batman literally only shows up to keep him from getting himself killed and teaching him enough defensive shit to survive because he knows first hand that nothing is gonna make the kid stop being a reckless teen idiot so he may as well do it (relatively) safely

[@blitzphantom9488]

Exactly

[@groovemoustache]

Exactly, and that would also solve the "Robin is too silly for the big screen/Robin isn't badass" problematic, start him as a troubled kid who's almost Damian Wayne-like psychopathic in his hyper-brutality, to a point where even Batman goes "woah slow down here buddy" and you'll get a Robin that the general public will like, him being a kid will just juxtapose with that imagery perfectly, having a 13 year old break bones with a sadistic smiles. Borrow from that scene from Under The Red Hood where Batman is actively telling Jason Todd that this isn't right and he needs to calm the fuck down and voilà. Suddenly it's not about Bruce Wayne training little minions to fight his war, it's about him tempering little demons and training them to be decent people.

[@blitzphantom9488]

@@groovemoustache yup, he’s a more then salvageable character but it’s going to take a director willing to stick his neck out a little bit.

[@Bane520]

@@groovemoustache Couldn't have said it better.

[@Night-Fire-nj1rd]

Jason Todd?

[@Caernath]

"Nerds, stop taking things so literally. Not everything is lore." - Patrick H Willems knocking it out of the park

[@pjny21]

Can't be said enough.

[@KingKhupacabra]

Exactly 🙌🏽

[@TheSkizz89]

Still waiting for my broom boy trilogy.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

Who the hell is Broom boy?

[@TheSkizz89]

@@comixproviderftw_02 the kid with the broom at the end of Star Wars Episode 8. The fan base flew a bitch fit over him because most of the older ones thought he was setting up the Rian Johnson trilogy.

[@NotNearMint]

"Batman's creator, Bill Finger... Batman's co-creator Bob Kane." I will love you forever for how you introduced them and the sequence! Great video essay as always!

[@seasonal02]

I was looking for this comment. And yeah that is the right way they should be introduced

[@safi6749]

Yep

[@jockeyfield1954]

bob kane made a character called batman, but bill finger made batman

[@starhunter9085]

*It's actually amazing to me how we almost never get Robin even though he's an integral part of Batman's mythos but, everywhere you turn, Joker is being shoved down your throats. I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*

[@spensirmclife6549]

@@starhunter9085 Agreed Joker is far less important to the Bat Mythos then Robine. People say Batman and Joker can only exist with each other, but that only applies to one. And its not Batman

[@nickfitchner3218]

I think a really great example of how robin could work is actually in the show Gotham. You see in that show that there is absolutely nothing that could stop young master Wayne from going down that path. Alfred had a choice either train him and guide him to be proficient in his skills, or watch him self destruct. Seeing that play out on Gotham it became very clear to me why Batman would train a robin!

[@bmichel2002]

I just want Nightwing, he’s always been my favorite hero and is the only hero I want to see in a movie.

[@zenonceballossineriz5032]

If they introduce him as Robin in one of the movies they could follow up with a Nightwing spinoff series!

[@weezerfan7621]

@@zenonceballossineriz5032 and once he’s nightwing we’re gonna need a new robin so we could get a good red hood

[@bouya642]

@@weezerfan7621 i dont want Jason todd i want Dick Grayson. He is the best Robin

[@weezerfan7621]

@@bouya642 I want both ngl

[@bouya642]

@Knox2Don Superman & Lois is a good show. Man of Steel is a good Superman movie. But to be honest we need Robin in the Batman sequels. Robin "Dick grayson" the original Robin and the best Robin. The Original Dynamic duo.

[@ilRosewood]

As I watched this I kept saying “but what about Lego Batman?” When Patrick called out Dick I was saving “surely now he will mention Lego Batman.” And by the final bit on family I was damn near talking to my screen asking why he won’t talk about Lego Batman! Oh, sweet sweet catharsis.

[@The_Bug0222]

I would argue that right now-with the Bruce Wayne Matt Reeves introduces in The Batman-is THE most opportune time to introduce Robin. This Bruce Wayne is angry and striving to find the light after the events of the film. Encountering a boy (13-16) very much like himself-broken, alone, with nowhere to go outside of the system-just might be the best way to keep Bruce steady. We come to find that Dick Grayson is his anchor, inspiration, and drive to be a better man. And maybe this broken, angry Dick Grayson sneaks out at night, looking for trouble. Maybe he comes home one early morning, after picking a fight with the wrong people, and Alfred finds him, tends to his wounds, then notifies Bruce of their similarities. “I just wonder if we made the right choice-here may be worse for him…” In the meantime, Bruce has been busy, finding that the corruption of Gotham may run deeper than Falcone, after a new series of assassinations suggest a connection to the very boy in Bruce’s care.

[@maximeteppe7627]

Absolutely - and I don't want robin to be the mayor's kid. With the huge theme of economic inequality that drives the tensions in the new movie, I feel like our Robin would need to come from a disenfranchised background to challenge Wayne's assumptions, the way Catwoman starts to do in the movie. In fact, I think I'd rather him be the kid who was about to be pledged into a gang in the movie's opening, or someone similar - making the whole thing more of a story of two people healing and reforming together by supporting each other.

[@Comicbroe405]

@@maximeteppe7627 If you're referring to the actor from that fight in the subway he's already playing Tim Drake in the Titans show (it's not that good).. And I think you mean Catwoman. But I agree nonetheless, Dick Grayson needs to be someone new.

[@MrAdamloring1985]

Dick Grayson as an origin story. You don’t have to change it at all.

[@MrAdamloring1985]

@@maximeteppe7627 if you want a story that is about socioeconomic differences, then all you have to do is tell the story that already exists. A kid that grew up moving from place to place with a family of circus performers, which is a hard life to live, mentored by a guy who has never had to want for anything. You don’t have to reinvent it with gang initiations.

[@maximeteppe7627]

@@MrAdamloring1985 absolutely. it was just a reaction to the possibility that the corrupt mayor's son becomes robin. if it had to be a kid we already saw, I'd rather gave the one furthest from bruce's socioeconomic class. but robin doesn't have to be a delinquant to make him work in this version of the batman.

[@JomarAF]

The Batman is largely in Batman's first years in which he's considerably younger than usual too, but I'd be interested in aged up Robin that weren't too young or too old in a later sequel. There's always that issue of there either being that original, yet recently questioned father-son dynamic or the unwanted homoerotic dynamic of the Schumacher films, but a Robin that operated as more of an adopted younger brother to Pattinson's Batman would be original and could maybe work.

[@Crowens]

Shit could help with Alfred too since he clearly saw Bruce as his own but Bruce rejected that notion, have him go through that rejection with his own adoptive son and learn from both relationships

[@sirterrell04]

My idea for robin: Bruce, after realizing that Batman needs to be a symbol of hope for gotham, also comes to realize that Bruce Wayne needs to be the same. In order to cultivate a better public image, he goes to the annual Gotham County Fair, and sees the dangerous trapeze act that leads to the death of the Graysons. Reviewing the footage through his Bat Contacts, he noticed the death was not an accident. As Batman, he hunts down the people who killed the graysons, only to find a young teen had beat him to their location. Preventing him from taking revenge by killing them, he takes young Dick Grayson in and trains him to fight crime as the dynamic duo- the symbol of fear and the symbol of hope.

[@ski7301]

that's actually a pretty sick idea dude

[@kingdavid6286]

And I could play as dick Grayson

[@Delete240]

@mp mp god that’s a terrible idea😂 totally takes away from Dick Grayson’s character. That’s like taking away Bruce’s parents being murdered. It’s just too different.

[@vladv5126]

Soooo basically 'your' idea is pretty much the actual canon origin in the comics.

[@sirterrell04]

@@vladv5126 idk probably I’ve never really read the comics

[@jenkinsjrjenkins]

Best part of having Robin/Nightwing as your favorite superhero is you get to see ppls reactions when you say enthusiastically "I love Dick"

[@yellowplate4539]

Dont forget those nightcakes...

[@LeinRa-Reaction]

"DICK FANS RISE UP" -a certain twitter user

[@jazzberry1713]

I do this shit so much😭

[@tamsinashton2293]

r/batmanarkham

[@AustynSN]

I'm in agreement with what Steve Shives said in his video, "Put Robin In the Next Batman Movie, You Cowards!" about a week before this one. Robin NEEDS to be a child. As you said in this video, there's no reason for him to become a sidekick if he's in his mid-twenties. I think the best way to frame Dick Grayson in a film is as a kid who knows his parents were murdered, but can't prove it. Show him as an angry child that nobody will listen to. In him, Bruce would see both a kindred soul, but also a kid who is going to get himself killed because he doesn't have the resources Bruce had. Basically, Bruce takes him in not to train him, but to save him from himself. Later Robins Jason and Tim could be themed around somebody whose anger puts them beyond being saved and somebody who is simply driven to do help others in any way they can without first needing trauma (yet eventually faces it anyways).

[@AustynSN]

@mp mp I disagree on that. I don't like it when the heroes origin has some sort of big conspiracy behind it. Joe, chill should not become the joker. Robin should not have been a talon in training. Uncle Ben should not be killed by the sandman.

[@Windwalker88]

Damn steve still is alive totally forgot about mr Block

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@AustynSN What was wrong with Sandman randomly killing Uncle Ben back when he was just Flint Marco? It was only done to reinforce the revenge themes of the movie & wasn't even a conspiracy. Just a random criminal being established as having actually done it & if you think that's bad you haven't seen the Uncle Ben deaths that actually were plotted rather than random acts of violence. Spider Noir gets bonus points for how his Uncle died in the comics.

[@loudboy317]

@@WaterKirby1994 I'll tell you what's wrong with Sandman killing Uncle Ben. It makes Peter NOT responsible for Ben's death because the guy he thought was the shooter didn't actually shoot him. It makes the police look stupid for not telling Peter or Aunt May who the real killer is on that very night and instead, waited till Sandman escaped from prison to open their mouths. The whole "great power comes great responsibility" message gets lost now that Peter knows that he didn't cause Uncle Ben's death like he thought.

[@WaterKirby1994]

@@loudboy317 To be fair the partner coming with the money made Flint's finger slip & he confessed to the killing in Prison years later. Had Peter stopped the thief, Uncle Ben would have talked Flint down successfully so he could have still prevented his uncle's death. You probably let your distaste for the movie prevent you from picking up on that stuff.

[@lordnul1708]

Whoever said "Robin isn't a badass name" has never heard of the original swashbuckling hero with a touch of humanity: Robin Hood (seriously, the old poems are brutal compared to the modern adaptations of today). Yes the Boy Wonder was named after the bird, but he and Bats fighting crime is basically the modern version of a swashbuckling hero.

[@VelkanKiador]

The way to get around Robin's age is quite simple. Have Bruce adopt Dick when he is a kid in the first movie, and have him become Robin in a later movie when he is older. Either replaced by a older actor or wait a few years for the kid actor to age into the role. Or if we do start out with a kid Robin, just have him be Batman's guy in the chair, or do other things than fighting like sneaking into buildings to spy on crooks in the vents too small for any adult. Or have him be secretly letting the air out of the bad guys tires as Batman is distracting the goons.

[@galactic85]

My thoughts exactly.

[@glazdarklee1683]

Oooh. I like that! Robin could be a precocious teen who understands the internet better than old-school Batman. They could do so many cool stories with that and not venture into "Hit-Girl" territory.

[@Voltan]

*"...Or if we do start out with a kid Robin, just have him be Batman's guy in the chair.."* so sooo sorry for this but Oracle: am I a joke to you?

[@VelkanKiador]

@@Voltan Yeah I sincerely doubt we are gonna see Oracle anytime in the movies. She does give valuable representation as a wheelchairbound superhero, but the way she got paralyzed is... Controversial to say the least. She was shot and sexually assaulted by the Joker, just to hurt her father. Like how would you even start adapting that? Change it too much and you get angry fanboys, make it too much like the comics and it is beyond creepy at how disposable they treat her as by making her a macguffin to spur the angry men in her life into action. With Oracle it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of scenario, and it will be a good while before we see Oracle in the movies in any form. So the guy in the chair role for the moment is still up for grabs xP

[@Itsmichaelcarroll]

I would defiantly like it if in The Batman 2 Bruce Wayne adopts a young boy (it could be Dick Greyson or the Mayor’s kid) and spends the movie learning to treat him like a son. Then in the next movie when the kid is more grown up he can become Robin. This way we still get the father-son dynamic without Batman breaking child endangerment laws.

[@justalemon965]

I feel that “The Batman” presents a scenario that no other Batman movie has. Batman movies (at least the live action ones) always focus on the action and guns and fighting and brutal moves that Batman destroys his opponents with. The Batman on the other hand focuses on Batman as a character while still giving amazing fight scenes. It shows Bruce’s smarts and detective skills as well as an undertone of loneliness and emptiness every time Bruce walked through the manor. It felt like it was way too big for just three people. It felt like Bruce really was isolated from people outside of Alfred. The Batman shows the story that Batman doesn’t have to be so cold and broody, that Gotham needs hope and a hero. In the comics, Batman realizes this as well but he knows he is too dark. He knows that Robin needs to be what he never could, a hero who stands for hope instead of fear. I feel that Robin could actually fit in The Batman’s continuity… as long as they find a balance between the comic book Robin suit and the silly nature of that in live action.

[@tonypalazzolo6552]

So you're saying no green speedo?

[@johnlawful2272]

@@tonypalazzolo6552 Robert pattison wants a 13 year old to play him and they could give him green baggy military pants

[@hal7741]

@@johnlawful2272 omg green baggy pants would be perfect

[@gamblertoguru382]

@@johnlawful2272 Just put him in black like Batman.

[@johnlawful2272]

@@hal7741 with boots too

[@leviel1430]

Considering Dick Grayson does have ties to the Court of Owls and we know the court is something the director is fond of I hope we’ll see some sort of interaction or confrontation. I think it would fit thematically to have a young Robin struggle with following his legacy just like we see Bruce do with the whole “sins of his father” thing. Sets up a good moment for Bruce to really shine through as a mentor.

[@Gemnist98]

It could happen. They are using the Court of Owls in the Gotham Knights game.

[@richardbolas]

would be cool, but a lot of the first movie adopted different ideas from the court of owls

[@leonardosanchez410]

@@richardbolas Not exactly, they could just say that Falcone was working for the Court, and after Batman found out about him he became the Court's main target

[@corbiecrow9738]

@@richardbolas they used the orphanage thing sure but I can't think of anything else really? And even tho they did use that it could be a plot point again (tho I suppose it would be a little samey so maybe for a third movie?)

[@corbiecrow9738]

@@leonardosanchez410 *spoilers!* I mean they wouldn't really have to do even that, since riddler kills him pretty much hours from batman finding out so they could just say he was working for the owls

[@vladv5126]

No joke, I'd pay good money to see an Alfred movie. He's low key the best character in the franchise. That man has some savage comebacks to everything anyone throws at him.

[@novagray4143]

There's an Alfred show on hbo max. Live action

[@catsend]

Ever heard of Pennyworth?

[@burymeinjhenny918]

@@catsend I just checked it out, I like the show 👍

[@ProudPapa26]

That’s as absurd as a Joe Chill solo movie. They’re just supporting characters in a bigger story.

[@Strangeminds38]

@@ProudPapa26 Alfred has some lore behind him though, it gets tiresome to see the same stories and characters... Btw some kind of material depicting Joe Chill and his life before and after killing Bruce's parents would be interesting if done well.

[@spensirmclife6549]

I'm just going to say it, but Batgirl also desperately needs another chance on the big screen. Barbara Gordon is too rich of a character to not touch and the rest each provide interesting things to the table.

[@zzeroara9511]

and i hope that when we do, we also get Cassie and Steph. They've both been in comics for a good while, and they've hardly even been in the ANIMATED movies/tv shows...

[@TheCrimsonElite666]

Hopefully without her randomly shagging Batman. Seriously, what were the people behind Batman The Killing Joke even thinking?

[@MattMamba24]

I went through a whole arc with my relationship with Robin. When I was a kid and watched Batman the Animated Series, I loved Robin and thought he was so cool. I think I went trick or treating as Robin like 3 years in a row. As I got into my teens I kind of resented Robin mostly because I thought he was so whiny in Batman and Robin. But the last few years, I've gone back and watched and read some great Batman stories with Robin included, and think he could play a key role in a newer live action Batman. Robin is like any other character. If you put enough care and thought into his/her character, Robin can be a great addition to growing both Batman and Gotham as a character/world.

[@remingtonpenaranda7762]

Hes so good in og teen titans

[@whysosnappy8016]

@@remingtonpenaranda7762 Don't forget Young Justice

[@remingtonpenaranda7762]

@@whysosnappy8016 hell yeah one of the best

[@sm4carnageihope]

I had my own one as well. As a child, I had always liked Robin, but always preferred Batman. Granted, I always preferred Batman with Robin as opposed to on his own. When the Teen Titand cartoon released, I grew to appreciate Robin more as his own character. I thought the Nightwing persona was cool, so I decided to take a look into the comic book lore. Dick Grayson helped me grow up. He made me realise that it offered me new opportunities and that people would start seeing me in a different way. He has actually dethroned Batman as my favourite DC character.

[@thegloveofficial3838]

Robin is not just one of the best dc characters but comic book characters of all time but in live action they haven't done him properly yk... and I feel like almost everyone likes robin when he is cool 😃👍

[@MK-gv1wd]

Richard Grayson is the best DC character in the entire universe. Period. He’s just so great. I do love the other Robins. But Richard Grayson needs to be in a live action thingy without being so dark. He’s my favourite. I love him.

[@KC-ui7yg]

me too

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

Maybe he should be renamed Rick. Why is Dick nickname for Richard anyway?

[@someone-you-do-not-know8522]

That actually happened in the Nightwing comics, he lost his memories and couldn’t identify with the person everyone knew as Dick, so he went by Ric. After he regained his memories, he went back to using Dick.

[@notspider-man7777]

@@sarasamaletdin4574 You’re not fooling anyone, Dan Didio. We all know it’s really you.

[@vladv5126]

Then call him by his real name.

[@nitewing98]

I grew up on the 60s Batman series. As a kid, it was Robin/Dick I identified with and as the years passed, I stayed a fan of the Boy Wonder. When he went off to Hudson University and had solo stories in the back of the Batman comics, I gobbled those stories up. When he went through his growing pains and transitioned to Nightwing, I read those books, too. And when Bruce was thought to be dead and Dick had to assume the mantle of Batman, with Damian as his Robin, I loved the role reversal of the happy Batman and his terse, grumpy Robin. I really wanted to like Chris O'Donnell's Robin in the Batman movies, but they screwed him up and added a side of "dying Alfred's niece being Batgirl" and an order of "bat-nipples" that I found distasteful. If the screenwriters would just tackle the character in an honest way that says, "Yes, this looks bad but please notice that DICK IS THRIVING, not being abused," it would make the character work. Dick was trained as an acrobat and performed really dangerous stunts in the circus. Danger isn't new to him, and that point is what makes his character work.

[@drherak]

I enjoyed your insight of how Batman needs a “Watson”. I can see know how in the movies Gordon and Alfred have served that role.

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

It was from the original creator, not Patrick.

[@seank.2589]

Imagine a Robin origin film where Robin is adopted by Batman, but everything is from Robin's POV. How cool would that be?

[@charlesmassey3645]

I would love this...which Robin would you use though?

[@jayd1nero]

@@charlesmassey3645 dick grayson

[@leftistdegeneratejs]

Dick Grayson for sure his optimism would contrast Bruce’s brooding cynicism and would help bring him to the path of caring for others and fighting crime to protect his loved ones

[@paulacampos4449]

The dr Watson approach!

[@johnnygoodman2003]

That would suck

[@JohnBradford14]

"Batman 89", the comic based within the Burtonverse, actually bypassed the kid sidekick angle by having Dick Grayson become a teen vigilante all on his own before meeting Batman. I think this approach actually works fairly well because it allows Batman to retain the role of mentor/father figure while at the same time avoiding the whole "adopting kids to then put them in dangerous situations" and more "training at risk kids so that they don't go down a dark path and/or get themselves killed".

[@MariaVosa]

Indeed. Having Robin starting out as a vigilante with his own revenge arc is a very good and potentially rewarding alternative. With Bruce being forced to mature both as a person and as a crime fighter with a young protegé. It would also allow him to have actual conversations solving the mysteries, so that we can move away from the frankly rather embarrassing "gritty Rorschach voiceover" in the newest movie.

[@himum3429]

@@MariaVosa They'd likely have to make that Vengeful Robin, Jason Todd as a pose to Dick Grayson. For reference while Dick is traditionally the first Robin and he goes on to become Nightwing he is ALWAYS the hopeful non Vengeful guy. He's much more like his "uncle" (Superman) then he is like Batman. He's basically what would happen if you combined Bats and Spiderman into one character. Jason on the other hand goes on to become DC's version of the Punisher (Red hood). He starts off as a vengeful teen who tries to steal the tyres off of the Batmobile and ends up becoming Robin. His Vengeful ways are slowly being put behind him but then the Joker Beats him down with a crowbar and blows him up. When he comes back to life he's an absolute savage who kills criminals on site. If they wanted to do a Robin arc in these films the Jason would be the way to go.

[@MariaVosa]

@@himum3429 I know the lore. But while Jason was angrier, Dick had his dark and angry sides too. Since Grayson is the original sidekick I would hate to see them sidestep him. I always liked him the best

[@SonofSethoitae]

@@himum3429 Well that would be the character arc; Dick starts off directionless and angry, and through working with Batman is able to direct that desire for vengeance toward something more constructive, and he becomes more like the Dick Grayson we all know. That way, if they later do Jason Todd, it'll serve as an effective contrast; where Dick was able to grow, Jason isn't.

[@cris-uh9kg]

@@SonofSethoitae ppl forget you can do time skips, the second movie can set up Dick Grayson Robin & let’s say he’s 15 so time skip three years to the third movie & he’s already out on his own as nightwing. So the third movie can be about Jason Todd & do the death in the family & red hood storyline since they already (spoilers) set up joker here. Idk if it would work entirely but I’m going under the assumption it’s only gonna be a trilogy & it’s not connected to anything else since that’s what been said. Maybe there could be more movies but I think if they did something similar to that it could be pretty good.

[@ApostlicNinjaGirl]

Dick Grayson is one of my three favorite super hero characters, along with Spider-Man and Wonder Woman. I really hope they give him another chance in the movies. They could even have Bruce adopt him at like 13 or 14 and just live and train with him and not actually fight until he’s 16 or 17. It gives Batman progression without having the awkward situation of putting a child in mortal danger. And there is a lot of love for Robin out there, just look at the Bat Family Webtoon.

[@Hello_Sidney153]

I really hope the deliverance of that ending message from The Batman (him learning that he can't just be vengeance but also needs to provide a source of substantial hope for a down-trodden city), leads to a Robin or Batfamily down the line. One that shows that he's left an impact and legacy on people who have used their inner demons to become more well-adjusted and happy than he is. ALSO because that's why none of the other Batmen have felt truly definitive no matter how good they were, because even in top-tier DC Animation, the Batfamily is present and their dynamic is always some of the most fun, interesting chemistry for some very interesting characters. Pattinson's Batman feels the most true to the comics of the lot, so maybe we'll finally see a Batfamily in live-action. Robin could also help Batman in relating to the common citizen instead of scaring them, which is always a plus :DD

[@okentrepreneur3777]

I would love to finally see the Bat family in live action on the big screen it truly is long overdue, and we’ve waited 25 years (and counting) to see Batman and Robin once again

[@LASCH_B10]

unfortunately i don't have much hope for seeing the whole bat family and if they do they'll fail, that could work in a TV series. Anyway i do have hope for producers taking a chance with Robin

[@spacelizbian]

I feel like Dick Grayson has to become Robin between the ages of 8-12. His innocence is a big part of how he serves to bring Bruce out of the darkness. Any older and he doesn't really feel like Dick Grayson because then he tends to gets wrapped up in teenage angst (which works for Dick, don't get me wrong, but it mostly works as a beginning to him leaving the Robin mantle and becoming Nightwing, not as his start as Robin.)

[@katherinealvarez9216]

Yes. Also, I just really want to imagine Bruce in a PTA meeting.

[@mueggsy]

This might be controversial, but I think Jason Todd would be the best Robin to start with Battinson. I just feel like his story just jives more with this version of Batman, and seeing as Battinson is the live-action Batman with the most anger issues, I think seeing that anger reflected in Jason might make him reconsider a lot of how he's doing things as he lectures Jason about his own anger issues. Also since Jason has a lot more ties to Gotham than Dick does, and also how close to Gotham Battinson is, forcing him to confront those aspects of Gotham that Jason comes from would be really interesting imo. I do love Dick tho! And honestly I'd be hyped if they included any Robin

[@damiantirado9616]

Nah I’m sorry but that is a terrible idea. A 12 year old fighting crime is stupid unless he has powers like Spider-Man. But even Spider-Man isn’t 12 years old at least his I’m high school.

[@bebel9]

Agreed! I think a young Dick Grayson would be ideal because of the unique combination of the innocence of his youth and the darkness of his own tragedy. By having this young boy who was once so bright and cheerful be suddenly threatened to be consumed by same darkness that is eating away at Bruce is a great way to push Bruce out of his comfort zone so he finally open himself to others. Dick, shortly after the death of his parents, was pretty angry and took a while to adjust to being in Gotham; Bruce recognizing that piece of himself in Dick and trying to keep him from being swallowed by the darkness (and, in turn, being himself saved by the bond he forges with Dick as a result) would be a great way to end his character arc.

[@welcometothevoid5126]

@@damiantirado9616 14 would be cool

[@squishy-frog]

Was thinking the whole time how the LEGO Batman movie fit so perfectly into this topic and wondered when it would come up, made you calling attention to its conspicuous absence very satisfying.

[@MasterEth]

My favorite part of the show Harley Quinn is in season 3 they introduce the bat family and it was genuinely the most fun I've ever seen happen to batman characters on screen. The bat family is so underrated. Also Lego Robin in Lego batman was great.

[@Envojus]

The same way we see the villains get inspired by Batman in Matt Reeves, you can have Robin be inspired by Batman. At first hesitant, but during the movie he realizes there's no stopping that Kid - so it's better to train him than let himself get killed.

[@Thyyyyyyyyme]

Yeah, I think this is the way to do it. Have Robin independently try to become his own vigilante inspired by Batman, which he discovers and tries to shut down at first. But when the kid doesn't stop, and Bruce finds out how he lost his family, he takes him in. Both to try guide him to be better, to ensure that he isn't inspiring another Riddler, and to make sure the kid doesn't get himself killed out there.

[@jeffbrownme2]

@@Thyyyyyyyyme Ooo I like this.

[@Batman88878]

That's exactly how it should be done. Just do it with Dick Grayson trying to bring Zucco to justice like in "Dark Victory" & B:TAS - "Robin's Reckoning". But then an undercurrent of their partnership would be Batman bonding with him in a father-son dynamic.

[@BetaBreaking]

@@Batman88878 Yes this is exactly my thinking as well. It would work so well to introduce a more Dark Victory or the animated series inspired version of Robin. I used to hate Robin as a character when I was a teenager but now as an adult I like him a lot. Like stated in the video and comments, he works as an anchor for Bruce, especially during his early years when he's full of anger and hate, trying to craft himself and the Batman identity further. And with the added detail of Dick possibly being inspired by Batman after the loss of his family, Bruce doesn't try to encourage it but has to eventually relent when Dick wants to go out there and try to avenge his family. I could work so well with Battisonverse. I just want a live action 10 year old Robin!

[@MaLLinz289]

That was my thinking as well, but a little Jason Todd edge on it, have Batman show up to vigilante crime scenes where the kid clearly almost died and people got hurt, even though he has good intentions, and then have Batman finally decided nothing will stop this kid and he has to adopt him or he’ll die.

[@shadowsnake94]

The ending of The Batman is perfect for a Robin character - Batman learning he needs to evolve into a greater symbol of hope and be more to other people

[@blitzphantom9488]

I’ve always loved Robin as a character and felt that he’s kinda been robbed throughout time. There’s definitely a place for him within Matt Reeves Gotham but down the road not just yet.

[@manlikemars2929]

I personally feel that Dick Grayson needs to be introduced in The Batman 2, because without Dick Grayson there’s no Jason Todd and both of these Robins are important to Batman moving in a happier direction

[@TheArisar]

I love that Bill Finger is finally getting the credit he deserves. The fact that you mentioned him first and then said co-creator Bob Kane made me smile.

[@bobjordan69]

I’m not gonna lie-writers who have not included Robin lack the imagination to incorporate the character in a credible way. Nolan tried, but John Blake might as well have been Jean Paul Valley or another bat surrogate

[@powerhardy1]

yeah the John Blake thing has aged TERRIBLY

[@ShadowSonic2]

The real reason the Nolan movies never tried to use Robin was because Christian Bale hated the Robin character and said he wouldn't continue if they ever tried introducing any kind of Robin.

[@liammclin5722]

@@ShadowSonic2 didn’t the video itself say that that quote was fake…?

[@ShadowSonic2]

@@liammclin5722 Well, maybe not those EXACT words but still...

[@oneandonlysound3453]

It's a shame there was a stigma or whatever against it. I mean Batman begins AND The Dark Knight both gave plenty of screen time as if that was where it might be headed, but then we got John Blake and I mean I kinda hoped someone had taken over the sequel mantle. These days even in say if it was released 2015-2016 no idea what murder someone might've did to what Nolan was doing so glad it didn't happen.

[@madtitan0825]

Lol “Robin: the Jar-Jar of a previous generation” had me dying, I know how people can have their own opinions but sometimes their opinions are just fucking shit

[@motor4X4kombat]

thats the equivalent of saying that ashoka is the next jar jar, yeah she was kinda anoying at first but just like robin she grew up and became his own develop character outside of the main hero, just like knightwing. People just call jar jar a character that find anoying, and now i finding out now people are calling omega from the bad batch when in reality she is just a girl that spent most of her life thinking of the greatness of exploring the galaxy until reality slap her in the face and show how things. People hate character grow. Thats why the worst character are the ones that never grow like AJ soprano or jubilee from x-men or even jason todd in his prime before he was red hood.

[@sidersky508]

#justiceforjarjar mee-sa love a goofy character in a movie about space wizards intended for children.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

I heard that and I was like “WOW… The disrespect was real back then.”

[@tyronleung5276]

Jar jar binks had so much potential if George didn't make him a minstrel caricature In episode 1 he could've been the master mind behind the sith

[@hcxpl1]

@@motor4X4kombat Omega* not Nebula, but point taken

[@AcolytesOfHorror]

I feel like Catwoman has sorta become the new Robin. Like... character growth for Batman in Nolan and Reeves' movies becomes about opening himself up to a romantic partner instead of a surrogate son. A story about two people learning to trust each other as equals instead of trusting yourself to take care of someone who's still learning. It's kinda neat, and I liked that it was more front and center in The Batman (always felt a little shoehorned into Nolan's), but it does take away the villainous wild card edge to Catwoman that makes her so fun. And she's always someone who's trying to take Batman OUT of Gotham, AWAY from Alfred and any potential Bat-family.

[@whodatninja439]

Catwoman is pretty much the sidekick in The Batman. i miss when she was, well, a cat burglar you never know if you can trust.

[@netizensarrest4241]

I hope they keep the characters separate because they ARE separate. While Catwoman and Bataman need to learn to trust each other Robin already trusts Batman completely since he is his child ward. Catwoman and Bataman are equals while Robin and Batman are not which becomes a point of tension when Robin (Grayson) gets older. Robin serves as a vicarious closure for Batman since he gets to bring his parents killers to justice. They may not do the ward take in this live action but I hope they take it there kid and all.

[@TheSPY1997]

Another important thing to note is that in the tradition of detective/noir stories, Catwoman fits in a particular archetype of her own: the femme fatale. She's dangerous, sexy, morally ambiguous and she uses her smarts and good looks to get what she wants by playing all sides. Making her a romantic partner to Batman might be an interesting take on the trope (and certainly a less misogynistic one), but due to the baggage of her character's perception as a femme fatale, it's impossible to make her a replacement for Robin.

[@emmanuelriggins8369]

Horrible take robin will be a better franchise than batman because they can spin it like Spiderman a kid in school who fights crime it's gonna sell like crazy

[@user-eb6xc3fq2m]

Interesting point of view on the Batman \Catwoman dynamic.

[@youllneverfindme933]

I now really want a movie about Nightwing or another ex Robin having to deal with how they were raised while still trying to help people as a vigilante. Like a superhero movie but also a deep dive into their mind and how it impacted them. U could even include Batman through flashbacks or have it so they help out at the end and have to makeup with the ex Robin.

[@JM1911A1]

Shout out for calling Spoiler up as her own acknowledgement given she's been her own hero, a Robin and a Batgirl, before returning to her own moniker and yet still part of the Batfam.

[@jermarwilliamson1552]

I know that there's many shows feat. Robin now but years back I actually had an idea for a new tv series called Grayson... It was going to be almost like the tv series called Gothan but Feature Dick Grayson. The story idea I wrote was of a young Dick Grayson and how he felt after losing his parents at the carnival. He wants revenge and is full of so much anger but Bruce Wayne tout him how to channel that anger and use it for something good also Dick would under go so much anxiety that's never been explored in the comics, more so than Bruce had to deal with, in this series it would explore him not knowing that Bruce is BatMan, doing detective work to try to solve his Parents murder, getting into trouble at school by fighting against bullies calling him rich kid and that he's only rich because his mommy and daddy is gone and bruce get's called, he wonders why he never sees bruce as much but Alfred is like a second father to him and bruce at the start is like a big brother to him. In this series I was going to let Robin not be looked at as any side kick but be his own hero, make his own decisions, fight and solve his own crimes while at the same time getting schooled a little by Bruce and Alfred. He soon developes his own suit and mask that looks simmilar to the robin suit and is called wonder boy in the Gotham news papers, yet again Wonder Boy strikes putting fear in the eyes of Gotham criminals.

[@MightyMurloc]

Being a fan of the original animated Teen Titans having grown up with it, and being lukewarm on Go! (I admit it has its moments) hearing that Go! is now so popular as to have eclipsed the original series broke my heart a little bit.

[@tivednagol9127]

Me too.

[@jermarwilliamson1552]

I know that there's many shows feat. Robin now but years back I actually had an idea for a new tv series called Grayson... It was going to be almost like the tv series called Gothan but Feature Dick Grayson. The story idea I wrote was of a young Dick Grayson and how he felt after losing his parents at the carnival. He wants revenge and is full of so much anger but Bruce Wayne tout him how to channel that anger and use it for something good also Dick would under go so much anxiety that's never been explored in the comics, more so than Bruce had to deal with, in this series it would explore him not knowing that Bruce is BatMan, doing detective work to try to solve his Parents murder, getting into trouble at school by fighting against bullies calling him rich kid and that he's only rich because his mommy and daddy is gone and bruce get's called, he wonders why he never sees bruce as much but Alfred is like a second father to him and bruce at the start is like a big brother to him. In this series I was going to let Robin not be looked at as any side kick but be his own hero, make his own decisions, fight and solve his own crimes while at the same time getting schooled a little by Bruce and Alfred. He soon developes his own suit and mask that looks simmilar to the robin suit and is called wonder boy in the Gotham news papers, yet again Wonder Boy strikes putting fear in the eyes of Gotham criminals.

[@rattyeely]

Sad but true, the Teen Titans Go! movie even went to theaters when the original Teen Titans show only got a made for TV movie

[@haileyshannon7548]

Are you aware of Titans on HBO MAx?

[@jermarwilliamson1552]

@@haileyshannon7548 Yes I am aware but it isn't a Robin origin series

[@TMH713]

Thanks for this. At this point, I find myself almost liking Dick Grayson more than Bruce Wayne as a character. The current comics run by Tom Taylor plus Grant Morrison’s run did a lot for that. I badly want a great live action Dick Grayson at this point. In a fake world where I was involved in film making, I would love to do a Robin origin story where Bruce Wayne and Batman are only glimpsed on the news until after the Graysons are killed. Focus the early part on Dick entirely and have Bruce be the secondary lead starting 1/3 of the way through

[@terrellnewbill4273]

Grayson has had about as many good writers as Batman, there are a ton of really good comics they could pull from

[@Feelosopher__]

I feel that so much. Ma boy Grayson needs some love on the big screen.

[@starhunter9085]

*It's actually amazing to me how we almost never get Robin even though he's an integral part of Batman's mythos but, everywhere you turn, the Joker is being shoved down your throats. I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*

[@HeyAnnieMok]

Taylor & Redondo make a WONDERFUL team. Taylor has become my favorite cape comics writer of all time.

[@Despoina_Nyx]

I think Robin could easily be done as an extension of the first "The Batman" themes about violence not being the answer and people forgotten by the city who lost hope. Dick in this version has the same backstory as his usual, parents kill by a mobster, but the difference is that it happened before Bruce was batman. So he partially lived similarly as the riddler, in an orphanage. And eventually is torn between his inspiration from batman and the riddler, if the main antagonist is someone like Doctor Freeze, hell it can be connected to it, have Dick be a vigilante but not really good, he gets taken by the police a couple of times, he is 15-16 years old at this point, at the same time Freeze start causing problems, the story goes and ends with Bruce instead of just using violence against Freeze, he sees what caused him to become like that and that kindness is witnessed by Dick who renounces the ways of the riddler completely and understand that the world is not that black and white. Bruce helps freeze save his wife, and sees the distraught Dick, seeing himself in his starting years as batman, decides to mentor him, at the start just as a mentor but eventually they relationship becomes more like father and son. I wouldn't make Dick kill people like the riddler tho, perhaps in a moment of weakness he would try and fail, his failure causing even more problems as it feeds into the cycle of violence.

[@shmeebs387]

Batman needs Robin. As overexposed as Batman has become lately, we've only scratched the surface of the character. We've never actually seen Batman with a child Dick Grayson. It's always adult Dick Grayson (which ironically never happens in the comics because he moves out of Gotham when it's like 17/18).

[@gangofheroes]

I think the key in doing Robin specifically Dick Grayson is having him around 15-17 y/o and have Bruce Wayne take him in due to some level of guilt and relatability toward Dick and have Dick actively seeking out his parents murderer showing no signs of stopping getting himself in danger forcing Bruce hand to train and finding his parents murderer. Also establish Dick being a naturally gifted fighter which his acrobat skill lends towards something that has been touched on in the comics even to the point of him being a bit better than Batman, also although it was something that Tim Drake used giving him a bo staff as a weapon to fight with alongside Batman would help with some of the realism some people may need.

[@jack_rabbit]

15-17 is too old. i agree w pattinson: 13.

[@starhunter9085]

*It's actually amazing to me how we almost never get Robin even though he's an integral part of Batman's mythos but, everywhere you turn, Joker is being shoved down your throats. I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*

[@AlterEgo756]

Which the 90's animated series did. Dick Grayson's already in college in that show.

[@PenneySounds]

I've often thought a modern movie that's trying to stay away from 60s cheese could portray and age-accurate Robin by just not having Batman bring him into combat. Not intentionally, anyway. He could use him as a spotter, where he uses his acrobatic skill to climb up into places where he can observe and report on people Batman is targeting. Or use him as a spy. Either in disguise, because nobody would suspect a kid of working with Batman, or completely unseen, because he's small and nimble and can get to places even Batman can't. He'd have to be trained in every stealth technique batman knows. It could really show off his potential as a detective in this way, because he might see things Batman misses. But in terms of letting him fight, he could still get moments to do that, either where he gets discovered, or he goes against orders and takes initiative, and then he could get a moment to show his combat prowess without it being like Batman intentionally sent a teenager into harm's way.

[@jalonjones8567]

YES!!!

[@livelife4928]

While I understand your idea, I don't share the same sentiment. Personally, I never liked the idea behind Robin or the Batfamily. I like them as individual characters but never as a whole. For Starters; I don't see any reason as to why Bruce would involve any child in his WAR on crime. It puts those kids in harm's way and results in their deaths or the death of their loved ones [ Jason Todd, Barbara Gordon and Tim Drake]. However, as I said, I still love these characters so I'll give you my pitch. Have Bruce Start another Orphanage Program like his father before him but This time the Waynes don't mess it up [ much to Gotham's surprise]. From there, have Bruce sponsor a school for the orphans to attend. From there, Jason and Dick will be set up in the orphanage as close friends. Barbara and Tim attend the same school as the orphans but don't have to spend their nights in the orphanage for obvious reasons. All Four meet up and form a group of sorts with Dick as their leader due to their age ranking which immediately puts Tim in the lowest position regardless of his intellect. Set the group out to find the people responsible for the Flying Graysons Incident [ Maybe have Dick hide it from the group for the sake of drama ]. They Give their pitch on three suspects; Cobblepot [ The Penguin ] and Bruce Wayne. Bruce is there because everyone expects him to be no different from his father. The Kids investigate Cobblepot as Batman also does the same but come to the same conclusion that he's innocent. Then, They Investigate Bruce Wayne which allows them to find out his identity as Batman which they all agree to keep to themselves unbeknownst to Bruce who is, frustratedly, still trying to connect the dots of The Flying Graysons Incident. Culminate The story with Roman Sionis revealed to be the culprit who put out a job for Tony Zucco to intimidate Jack Haly into a drug deal by sabotaging the Flying Graysons which resulted in their deaths. Dick gets proof but the other kids are kidnapped by Sionis who threathens to kill them if Dick doesn't return with the evidence. Bruce finds out about the kids and reluctantly works alongside Dick to bring Sionis Down. Bruce and the kids completely oust Sionis for the criminal he is which forces him to leave the city. However, Sionis cornered by Cobblepot, who has now fully embraced his position as a mob boss, who guns him and his remaining men down. The Cops Find the scene but no evidence traces back to The Penguin. Jason and Dick Return to the orphanage while Tim and Barbara return to their parents. What do you think ?

[@grinko1222]

Nah. Just play it straight like the grown man in a bat costume.

[@tonuahmed4227]

Feels like Spielbergesque kid detective genre (which I'm personally interested in this kind of take being a team of robin ) but departs way far from reeves gritty realistic aesthetic...

[@tonuahmed4227]

Okay hear me out...in 'The Batman' movie batman is young and more of a MMA brawler with marine like techniques where Catwoman was more of a acrobat and agile fighter...we can set up dick Grayson as a kid who is really humble with everyone and have many skills learned from circus people and as also really good at parkour and gymnastic ability learned from family line...this all can be subtly hinted...still he should be really young and inexperienced(despite showing fighting instinctively good) so that Bruce can save him from mobs and train him later in the movie,have him some similarities to previous people in Bruce's past and recent life:selina as she investigate about her coworker/love interests murder,riddler as he got inspired from batman started vigilantism (here will be difference where one where Bruce will see dick helping some people with his skill despite being young yet brave) and lastly Bruce himself as a lost child...in story big bad can be anybody...dick will start as vigilanty who in the first shown as adorable kid then in middle point shown as a vengeful kid who is looking for too avenge his parents death but showing a glimpse of old good persona by rescuing civilians and sometimes acting playful and with others while end of middle part showing his true emotional wounded self...in climax when they find the person responsible for his parents death he almost lashes out and cry but in decides to save him from big bad when batman figures out who big villain is after and in end we see the guy 'who killed dick Grayson's parents' is handcuffed in background establishing dick graysons strong moral ground...tho main villain dies tragically making batman rely on robin to comfort him in his loss and showing hope thus dick becoming first robin...

[@SheanWalsh46]

8:16 are those people didn't realized that The Dark Knight Trilogy is also a campy despite the realism? Hell, Batman Voice in the Trilogy is even more sillier than Robin. Not to mention, Batman itself is a silly character with a silly concept.

[@KenDusek]

To me The Batman needs Robin is this new edition. I always felt that him helping Robin helps Bruce figure out how to help Gotham. His caring for one person gives him human connection. That's what he needs to be the hope Gotham needs

[@eyezzsodrppyXXX]

But he's not hope. That's Superman just across the street. Batman is vengeance.

[@mckennaa3641]

@@eyezzsodrppyXXX did you miss the ending of The Batman???

[@starhunter9085]

*It's actually amazing to me how we almost never get Robin even though he's an integral part of Batman's mythos but, everywhere you turn, the Joker is being shoved down your throats. I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*

[@KenDusek]

@@starhunter9085 totally agree we need Robin to me if a filmmaker can pull off a great Robin then he/she will have unlocked a rare achievement. Dick Grayson is a great character that needs to be in The Batman. See this Batman with a Robin would be amazing

[@KenDusek]

@@starhunter9085 Patrick H welhems did a great KZbin video about Robin that came out a couple days ago I think

[@InternetMonster1]

One thing about Robin is that his design itself lends itself a bit more towards animation. He is very acrobatic, and his signature costume is bright red, yellow and green. He visually stands out and acts different from Batman so a lot of the time it is kind of difficult to make them work together, especially since Batman is not exactly meant to be easy to see. Obviously, this is a foot tall hurdle, but I think it does cause him to not mesh well with what a lot of people see as batman (edgy, dark and silent). I liked the Teen Titans (2003 cartoon) version of Robin where they took a lot of signature batman traits: brooding, serious and calculated yet made sure he never struggled to connect with others. His arc helped him have faith in others and lighten up, but he was always a genuine friend and a great leader to his companions. Robin's acrobatics also lent himself a lot to team play, since he is able to keep up with his super powered friends even without the variety of gadgets he uses. Batman from what I have seen (in the lower end films) is brooding, serious and calculated without an endgame. A lot of the (lesser) movies have him solve a problem without an arc for him or a lesson in the story.

[@Johnny0lovely69]

That's probably why they're introducing Damian in the upcoming DCU Batman movie. So Nightwing would already exist then.

[@updogysl]

"It's hard to imagine yourself being Batman, the best most capable person in the world" I think a non trivial amount of Batman fans believe they are Batman, only way I can make sense of some of the bizarre people that pop up anytime he is mentioned.

[@galactic85]

A farm boy from kansas who becomes a newspaper reporter and has trouble with making friends and pursuing romances? That's just too unrelatable! I prefer the masked genius with a multibillion dollar arsenal of sci fi weapons and dead parents! That guy is just like me! /s

[@leaffinite2001]

@@galactic85 no you dont get it, his gloomy trauma from his parents death is just like my incel rage from how my crush rejected me in high school

[@joshuagregoire9504]

​​@@galactic85 That newspaper boy is also a man that can lift up boulders, shoot lasers out his eyes, fly faster than any jet, and beef with earth destroying aliens. People relate to Superman and Batman just because their hardships and ideals not because of their lifestyles and capabilities 🤷🏿

[@KutluMizrak]

@@joshuagregoire9504 That farmboy does those because he is a good person that grew up in a loving household. He doesnt have to do any of that, no obligation to do so. One fact about Snyder Superman I found very nice is that they touched on this with both Kents. They told Clark that he had a choice, and he chose to be a hero regardless. He doesnt have trauma guiding him to do that. Even Pa Kent's death is really just a solidifying point, not the center of his whole being. I always found Superman to be the most normal well balanced person in JL. The most relatable to some. I gravitated more to Flash because I had the same high aptitude for sciences and similar nerdy patterns, but point stands. Batman is not something you picture yourself as, to me. In a twist of fate, I read Sherlock Holmes before Iread Batman or seen a cartoon, so I always could see the proto superhuman detective in Batman.

[@IanM86]

Just gotta say with Bucky, in order to put a more realistic/family friendly spin on the child sidekick trope, they could of made him underage and lie about his age to enlist and have the cap find out and become protective of him

[@vanhunts6238]

I feel like the ending of The Batman sets up a potential adaptation for Batman: No Man’s Land, but where Gotham’s isolation from the rest of the country is caused by flooding instead of an earthquake. That story provides the perfect environment for why a child would want to become a vigilante. Heck, it’s even the storyline that introduced Cassandra Cain. I can totally see Robin or Batgirl being introduced in The Batman 2 if they go this route.

[@colliric]

The sequel should just straight up be called The Robin, and dramatise him getting a friend to help him beat people up. Like one of the Dirty Harry films were he gets a partner. Or Seven with Batman being the Morgan Freeman character and Robin being his Brad Pitt. Stick close to the comic book origin, his parents get murdered and Batman helps him figure out who did it.

[@myralee1760]

@@colliric You know, seeing a Robin movie as a teenage gritty action movie sounds alright, but imagine going the whole movie with that tone and 3 quarters in, theyre goofing around and a giant shadow with ears pops up behind and they both figuratively shit their pants. Now that would be amazing.

[@Delete240]

@@colliric “The Robin”🤣 that’s atrocious. It’s a Batman film anyway ffs.

[@galactic85]

Honestly if Matt Reeves and WB are too chicken to use Dick Grayson, then they should just go with Cassandra Cain. She is a great character and her story deserves to be told on film.

[@pinkpowercoin3341]

As someone who prefers Robin (particularly Dick Grayson) over Bruce, its honestly very frustrating that none of these directors/screen writers want to adapt him/them to the big screen. Like, the only leeway I can give them is that I know its weird to think Batman (as serious as they make him) would allow a preteen ( though they'd probably age him up to 15 or 16) to intentionally put themselves in danger. But, on the other hand I think that could also lend to some interesting commentary too. Child Soldiers. Surrogate parents. Him navigating being a parent in the way he'd want his parents to be if they continued to live.

[@terrellnewbill4273]

I’ve always said they could skip his time as Robin, go straight to their falling out when he becomes Nightwing. That could open the movie, fast forward a year or 2, Grayson needs help on a case, reaches back out, a million directions you could take it from there

[@Artryom]

@@terrellnewbill4273 Or for better consistency, Bruce needs help on a case and misses him so he reaches back out, and Grayson reluctantly agrees. The point of the Nightwing sorta arc is Grayson moving away from Bruce, him asking for help sorta defeats the purpose.

[@terrellnewbill4273]

@@Artryom You’re 100 percent right. After I wrote it I realized the story would work better if Bats came to him for help and not the other way around. Batman doesn’t ask for help often either but he’s a pragmatist, when he’s outclassed he knows sometimes other heroes are the answer.

[@Artryom]

@@terrellnewbill4273 Exactly, or at least he has a sense of family and Fatherly love for his greatest success, Nightwing... I believe a few times in the comics he essentially said out of anyone, he trusts him the most. Can't recall in what comics though... so add that to Bruce's character in this movie, EZ explanation of why Bruce is asking for help.

[@UnsatMarine]

@@terrellnewbill4273 In a way they are already doing this with the show "Titans". I don't know if they would ever give Nightwing his own movie though.

[@danyergert8122]

As someone who has always loved Robin even more than Batman, I have been waiting for this.

[@thewhitewolf58]

I perfer it to be night wing or an adult i dont like the idea of batman having a young colorful target to catch bullets while batman is in all black.

[@varicosevisage4794]

@@thewhitewolf58 I mean, it actually makes more sense for Batman to wear dark blue, since nighttime actually isn't black. Ninjas actually wore dark blue. So maybe we'll get a dark blue Batsuit with a muted red and black Robin? I don't think he can really be Nightwing without being Robin first

[@thewhitewolf58]

@@varicosevisage4794 you do realize that ninjas would dress as farmers or such half the time? They were less like the fantasy stealth masters and more like spies.

[@tyronleung5276]

@@thewhitewolf58 historically ninjas in pop culture didn't exist the ninjas were just samurai or peasant spies

[@MyNinjaPenguin17]

I'm not alone!!! People make so much fun of me for saying I like Robin even more than Batman, which is funny, because usually the haven't picked up a comic book in their life and mostly base their opinion of Robin off of things that make fun of him or get him completely wrong.

[@Rob_Cahill]

If Robin/Grayson gets a serious movie. It would likely be "Becoming Nightwing" It would probably need to be a trilogy, so they could have flash backs of him with Bruce/Batman and/or past events with people from the rogues gallery . Something like what the movie and tv show did for "Forever Knight". Trying to do a Robin solo movie would be too hard because as Robin he was always around others. At least as Nightwing , you can get around some stuff with a few flash backs throughout the movie(s). It would be a hit for sure because many people are fans of Nightwing/Grayson. With his charm , snarky behavior and comedic timing. That would translate well I think, specially in the hands of a good writer and actor.

[@shisui9922]

the titans show kinda did that and i think they did a decent job of making the robins more dark

[@madaffi2434]

Hypothesis: robin was a self-insert character for kids, but with a father-son dynamic between Batman and Robin, the modern male audience is faced with a character that grows into fatherhood, while comic books used to be an escape from that sort of mundane, but at the same time life-changing event. Ie Batman is not an easy self-insert character, but growing into fatherhood is a struggle the audience knows, so there's a dissonance.

[@ProudPapa26]

It’s always been well-documented that they added Robin for the kids to relate to.

[@Wired4Life2]

@@ProudPapa26 So, comic book-reading kids are Robins wanting to be Batman, while men are Batmen hoping to raise Robins?

[@multiapokalipsa]

And it's been super popular in recent years; the Witcher, Mandolorian, God of War, the last of us, even Wolverine

[@tomebasic2843]

A child doesn't belong on the streets of Gotham fighting criminals. I've never liked the idea of Batman training child soldiers and I hate it especially now when the current robin is Damien Wayne. (Stupid edgelord). Even as a kid I prefered Batman on his own. The only Batman's protege I can get behind is Terry McGuiness, because he wasn't a child when he forced his way into a life of fighting crime.

[@adamcallaway3762]

@@tomebasic2843I kinda get what your saying and largely agree but dick is different, in the comics and with the evolution of the characters. dick the person not just the superhero is vital without him there is no red hood, bat girl, or any other bat family, Batman himself would be a completely different person and narratively a villain by now, the justice league would be different especially superman and many of the titans wouldn’t exist, the list goes on. this is a massive problem that the dcu is going to have to try and solve, nightwing has to exist.

[@spotsthenpc7796]

8:45 Not a single person in this panel has read a Batman comic and it shows. The relationship between Batman and Robin(s) is the best part of the comics. I mean, a large part of the modern comics, especially now with Damian is how Batman has created a family around him. Now that the new Batman movie is embracing more comic aspects and also pointing out Bruce might actually be legit crazy (his mother used to be institutionalized) not having a Robin would be another lost oportunity. Robin doesnt have to be light hearted, if they want they can combine all the Robins together (Dick, Jason, Damian, Tim) and create an angsty detective genius who can do acrobatics but also wants to kill people and Batman is there to stop him.

[@CptCrash21]

Yeah, but if they did a melting-pot style Robin, they wouldn't be able to transition into what we all really need: A Nightwing movie.

[@leonardosanchez410]

I really like the idea of having a mix of the 4 Robin's, and if the 1st movie was based on Long Halloween I can see them putting Robin's Dark Victory arch

[@leonardosanchez410]

@@CptCrash21 Who cares about a Nightwing movie? The best part of the Robin character is his interaction with Batman/Bruce

[@CptCrash21]

@@leonardosanchez410 "The best part of the Robin character is his interaction with Batman/Bruce" -- depends on which Robin you're talking about. Carrie Kelly maybe. If it's Dick Grayson, it absolutely isn't. It's just one, albeit wonderful, part of one of DC's greatest characters. You know, Dick Grayson, aka Nightwing. One of the most popular characters in comics and someone who tons of people want to see on the big screen. But if you wanna hold to that painfully simplistic pov go ahead. Maybe you can hang out with Dan Didio and complain to each other.

[@leonardosanchez410]

@@CptCrash21 I completely disagree, Dick has a big story after leaving the Robin mantle, but the best thing on the character will always be the way he changed Bruce's life, there's no reason to make a Nightwing movie in this universe

[@MrKidKnockout]

For me Robin has always been my aspect of the Batman mythos. I love the seeing the Bat-family dynamic and how each Robin represent Bruce’s core strengths and how they clash. Dick is Bruce’s greatest creation; a Batman who can trust others and be that symbol of hope. Jason is Bruce’s biggest failure but in later comics even he can be redeemed. Tim is Bruce’s greatest match. He is the only one with the intellect to truly surpass Bruce. Finally there’s Bruce’s successor. His biological son in Damien. It’s why I’m so hyped for the Gotham Knights game coming out soon. I pray one day I can see a Batman film that heavily focuses on the Robins.

[@HeyAnnieMok]

REALLY excited for that game. I just hope my mid-tier gaming PC can handle it lol...

[@gektoast4968]

It’s almost here! Robin time!

[@roccoon9892]

I want you to edit this comment and give us your insights on Gotham Knights.

[@Mangolorian-je3eo]

All the abilities of Batman, all the fun of Spider-Man. Grayson is an untapped gold mine.

[@ACGaming07]

I’d love to see at least Nightwing in these movies. If we’re lucky, I think Red Robin fits in perfectly with how well this movie pays attention to the whole detective element of Batman and Red Hood would be nice for the whole darker theme.

[@elizabethjames2339]

Nightwing is the best detective after Batman though. He's literally been shown calling the 'America's Most Wanted' line and solving cases for them just by watching the show lol.

[@honeybeeami2654]

Especially since there's different Robins, all with their own personalities and charm and gives them fans, I'm sure there's at least one of them that could succeed on the big screen if its already the case for the small screen.

[@Jack-bj2xi]

The absolute cinematic symbolism here. Patrick focuses on the comics while talking about the subject matter and then focuses on himself whilst talking about his opinions. Marvelous my fine fellow!

[@Fisher_Films]

I think Dark Victory is the perfect way to do Robin and would fit seamlessly into Matt Reeves’ world.

[@itayeldad3317]

What annoys me about snyder is that it was apearently dick grayson who died. When I first saw it I was sure it was jason and nightwing is alive somewhere in this universe, but no. And unlike nolan, snyder had the entire universe to think about with those decisions, he killed so much story potential doing this. He kinda canceled nightwing, red hood, and the titans existing in dceu (ok maybe not the titans but he cut a pretty big chunk of it)

[@ibrahimfarooq2775]

That was only temporary because he had planned that flashpoint would change everything to make it normal again. So in that case, nightwing would be around and it would have been jason been killed. He chose dick grayson to get killed instead because he felt that was the one that would hurt Bruce the most

[@Republic_of_Tim]

@@ibrahimfarooq2775 He planned that a Flash movie made several years after BvS by entirely different people that he isn't involved with at all would retcon all of his writing decisions?

[@ibrahimfarooq2775]

@@Republic_of_Tim No. this would have been a completely different flash movie part of the original dceu slate. He would have been involved. And it would have made changes to the timeline such as Robin being alive. This would have also been after the justice league movies and the war against darkseid

[@Republic_of_Tim]

@@ibrahimfarooq2775 Oh, I see! So he planned to retcon his OWN writing decisions. Because that's what good writing is. "Nah, I'm only making things dark and shitty because I plan to make it all irrelevant later. This is what good writing is."

[@ibrahimfarooq2775]

@@Republic_of_Tim no you dont get it. He was doing something different and creating a story about broken heroes becoming the best versions of themselves. Then flashpoint would put things back to normal so that after he told his story, other directors and writers could make whatever stories they want without having to consider the snyderverse story Its not bad writing you’re just hating

[@TomWright91]

I'll be honest, when Bruce sees the Mayors son at the funeral, my mind automatically went to Robin. If they did go that route, it would be an interesting take, but I too, don't think it will happen.

[@mybawzarerichie]

I disagree. That kid doesn’t need Bruce, as mentioned in the movie even though he is an orphan and likely to be heavily traumatised, he has enough wealth that he’ll be able to be taken care of. Grayson on the other hand would be in danger of the same garbage life that riddler was subject to unless Bruce both steps in and fixes the state of the orphanages.

[@Feelosopher__]

Nah. I really hope they don’t do that. It’s more interesting as a “planting the seeds” moment imo. That and if DC gives us another not-Dick Grayson Dick Grayson I’m going to be very sad…

[@jazzberry1713]

@@Feelosopher__ fr man, give us Haley’s circus!

[@Filipos123456]

i think that the mayors son is red hood ( from his costume on the first scene) and the kid from the clown gang that didnt punch batman is gonna be robin. ( the actor is also the voice actor for robin in titans i believe)

[@gavo7911]

…why? That makes zero sense. Why does everything need to set up something else? Why can’t it just be a cool thematic element of the movie. Bruce sees himself in that kid. Nothing more.

[@rickyblitz9679]

One of my favourite comic books was Robin: The Joker’s wild. Batman has left Gotham city temporarily and left it to the new Robin, Tim Drake to guard. The joker goes on this crazy crime spree and all that stands between Gotham and the Joker is this brand new Robin who’s been thrown in the deep end. And if that wasn’t enough, all of this is relatively soon after the Joker has killed Jason Todd, so Batman is telling Tim not to engage the joker at all. It’s a cool story because Batman is just kind of a background character, with Robin forced to adapt to a huge challenge and come into his own all whilst battling doubts of whether he’s even a worthy Robin. It’s sick 👌

[@avantnoir4125]

They made a lego movie based off of this LMAOOO

[@HeyAnnieMok]

heard of this, will def read on DC Universe Infinite!!!

[@rickyblitz9679]

@@HeyAnnieMok you should, it’s a little dated by today’s standards, but it’s a solid little story 😊

[@EliteEasyE]

In Batman the Animated Series Bruce took in Dick Grayson when he was 9 in Robin's Reckoning Part 1 and Robin went after Tony Zucco when he was 10 in Robin's Reckoning Part 2 leading to Bruce revealing he was Batman. Bruce then trained him for 7 years meaning he didn't hit the streets until he was damn near college age. The luxury you get with TV shows and off screen happenings.

[@auroninja]

Robin is absolutely necessary, and I'd love to see him done right in live action film. I'd argue he needs to be younger like 13 or 14 so that as an audience we can watch him grow into Nightwing. Justice League New Frontier did a great job of addressing the dark and broody Batman with a high energy smiling Robin. When introduced, Superman asks Batman about Robin, and Batman explains that he was frightening children when he would try to save them, and that Robin helps them feel more comfortable and safe. I really believe that was a good way of at least making the point that Robin rounds out the work of Batman. The Batman (2022) has a perfect opportunity to have Robin show up in its sequel because giving the classic Robin origin to that Batman would without a doubt pacify his urges to cross that line. I hope we see the Dick Grayson Robin soon, and his evolution into Nightwing. He's a fantastic character that mirrors Batman in a lot of ways, and even justifies his actions even more so than simply losing his parents.

[@archer1949]

I don’t just want to see Dick Grayson in a future Batshow. I want to see the whole BatFamily. Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Babs, Stephanie, Cass, Luke, Kate, Duke, EVERYBODY.

[@Keenath]

"Wayne Family Adventures" is legitimately the best batman comic. (I joke, but kinda not joking? Bruce having a huge family of adopted kids because he's making a family for himself is kinda sweet and brings him much needed human connection. I'm so damn tired of Dark And Broody Loner Bruce.)

[@omalleycaboose5937]

And done right, titans wasn't it.

[@EmileFeik]

don't agree. too much of the bat family ruins the whole idea of batman as a gothic solitary hero. just stick to the robins and maybe batgirl at most

[@harishramachandra1746]

@@EmileFeik except that Batman being a solitary hero hasn't been a thing outside of the movies for a long long time now. Live action is still playing catch up to the idea that maybe there's more to Batman than gruff guy (watching the new batman movie this weekend so maybe that changes things)

[@EmileFeik]

@@harishramachandra1746 you're right, I just personally much prefer that version of batman.

[@bad72690]

Damian is my favorite take on Robin because he naturally solves a lot of the problems. He was raised to be an assassin so it makes sense why he is a better fighter than most adults. He obviously challenges Bruce to be a father and he's edgy enough to be cool.

[@MechanicalMarketer253]

I’m more of a Dick Grayson guy myself, but I think Damien is a better contrast to him than Jason and is frankly underrated as Robin.

[@bad72690]

@@MechanicalMarketer253I like Dick plenty but more so as Nightwing. I don't have too much experience with him as classic Robin.

[@kaimargonar1000]

And if they show him struggling to be a typical normal kid, that would make him more likeable

[@starhunter9085]

*It's actually amazing to me how we almost never get Robin even though he's an integral part of Batman's mythos but, everywhere you turn, Joker is being shoved down your throats. I'm tired of seeing the Joker all the time. Ledger in 2008, Leto in 2016, Phoenix in 2019, Cameron Monaghan in Gotham and now this guy? It's like DC and Warner Bros. forgot Batman has a rogues gallery of other villains they can use.*

[@kaimargonar1000]

This is why to me Batfleck is such a loss. With older Batman you could make up story about how Bat family is already there but step aside when Bruce become violent. He also works well with comedy so it shouldn't be dark stuff always. I think this is why Robin is hard to include in Batman movies, they make it too darn dark or adult or whatever. I hope Bats after Battinson is a bit lighter, Justice League Unlimited light.

[@Aivottaja]

Because public consciousness associates Robin with campiness. It's not completely warranted - as anyone who reads Batman could tell you. It's unfortunate. There's so much they could do with them. Grayson starting as Robin and becoming Nightwing. The death of Jason. Tim as the upcoming world's greatest detective.

[@elmoisred616]

We should already have Nightwing represented in live action by now

[@rosalinecapulet]

Titans?

[@kyronlewis6975]

Yeah to be fair he’s in Titans😬but I would like to see him portrayed on the big screen!

[@elmoisred616]

Forgive me for not acknowledging the live action Titans 😔

[@anubusx]

Taron Egerton should play him.

[@ashspike5232]

@@anubusx no

[@ianbassett7134]

This was an incredibly well made video about a character that deserves respect. He is one of the top 5 most important comic characters of all time and predates most other comic heroes! If people say “Batman works best without Robin” I would wager you’re not an actual Batman comic reading fan, but you just want a vigilante character like the Punisher.

[@cieproject2888]

Literally fifteen minutes before this came out, I was thinking to myself, "It sure has been a long time since a PHW video..."

[@edibleapeman]

wake up, neo

[@HerooftheWild]

I absolutely hate the "fans" of Batman that shit on Robin, Robin is a part of the Batman mythos and Robin can be serious (look at Teen Titans 2003) This is why I respect James Gunn cause he's finally giving us Batman AND Robin (even though it's Damian Wayne, I don't care which Robin it is) James Gunn will give us what Nolan, Snyder and Reeves failed to do