These MTG Cheaters Were Caught Red Handed

[@CarpeDeump]

Man, that unnecessary card shuffling is next level psychotic behavior. Stuff like that normally doesn't bother me, but hooooooly hell.

[@KyunaCookies]

The moment you face someone like that at locals know it's going to be a painful game

[@braddl9442]

When you see them doing that. Be on guard for someone that will try to cheat.

[@wanderer202]

@@braddl9442 I'm not saying all card flickers cheat, but i don't think I've ever seen a cheater who wasn't a card flicker.

[@RobberStormfire]

I can't stand it. It's one reason why I dislike playing random people at game stores. Some people just shuffle their cards so much you just have to assume they are cheating.

[@CarpeDeump]

@@RobberStormfire And I get poker players enjoying the feel and sound of messing with chips, but even that can be too much at times. But with cards that can lose value when mistreated on top of it all? Ew.

[@EMPCraft]

Magic can be so easy with a free tutor every turn.

[@ave_maria323]

I had a combo to do that in edh, damia and archmages assention, however that's a legal tutor

[@kedge]

Always cut your opponent deck. I always shuffle my opponent deck and cut middle to top.

[@Ohushi]

He should have play a snap instead of helix. Dude is bad

[@Nekophiliac]

Maralen of the Mornsong says Hi

[@Babivegita]

A tutor every turn would just be Yugioh

[@ashrog82]

The first guy should be a lesson to everyone: always cut after your opponent shuffles.

[@Yroko]

Yes. I always cut my opponents deck in 4 then place the 3 sections back in random order. Edit: after a game to help spread my cards out of oder, i grid them 4x4 with 1st layer creatures, spells lands, etc then random stacking then a good shuffle. And pass it to my opponent to tell them to either shuffle, but cut it.

[@ave_maria323]

Yup

[@m4sk3d1]

I think most Official TCG Tournaments have in their rules that “You must offer your deck to your opponent to cut” (wording might be different but the premise is the same)

[@RJMM]

The cheater should have presented the deck to be cut!

[@breeze7464]

Eh, I always do a tricut after each shuffle I do. Doesn't matter if they or I do it, a reshuffled deck is getting cut, one way or another. I'm not about to be accused of no BS lol

[@gonzotehclown]

Im SO glad im not the only one who was losing their mind over the way that guy was flicking his cards in his hand

[@danielaguirre5949]

Every card game has it which is annoying after awhile

[@ewoknips5154]

Yea that shit drives me crazy too.

[@adamproductions4529]

It’s a distraction so you don’t notice him cheating

[@pug8714]

Too many people do it

[@pixelwhisper1999]

Like dude. Fucking stop.

[@aquamentos]

It's funny how it's always the cheater that maniacally shuffles their hand like a psychopath

[@SkyFire2112]

It’s called guilt

[@kevinwheeler7427]

Nervous movements. More than a little suspicious. Or a blood sugar issue.

[@Dukedogdog]

If it's not nerves it's misdirection. "Oh he messes with his cards a lot in his hand, I will ignore these weird motions" As a card nerd in HS, (besides the awful pull) he's very simply just forcing the card to stay on top and making us watch his hands not the deck. (That's if he actually tries to practice cheating at least)

[@Nolsie]

My great great grandfather was shot dead in 1890 for these kind of shenanigans, tried to tuck an ace under the deck in response to a thought seize. You hate to see it.

[@Fausto_4841]

had it coming.

[@jeremyphillips3087]

Thought seize is pretty tilting, I get it.

[@nicklewry3854]

Ah, the good ol days of Magic

[@Chorbus]

I want more lore.

[@TehSeksyManz]

The hand shuffling had me raging. Seriously, I can't HANDLE it.

[@thesuntitan]

It’s also so fucking LOUD like holy shit

[@jtyree0226]

I get doing a quick mix when you draw a card to conceal some info, but when you continue to do it the rest your turn and opponents turn it’s not only pointless but also obnoxious

[@Omenshaper]

Stop That needs to become a tournament legal card

[@braddl9442]

@@jtyree0226 Its a nervous tick, prob from a cheater. take note of it.

[@ave_maria323]

It's annoying af

[@michaeldesjardin705]

"Our hero who is on tron" Words I never thought I'd hear and also agree with

[@skirk248]

Not going to lie I instinctively was against tron at the start

[@ShadowWalker-ng1it]

hero is an overstatement of lesser villain kinda like H man vs S man during WW2

[@frostiels58]

I would personally classify him as an anti hero, facing the villain through morally questionable means

[@jinpachibobochan3532]

My first magic deck was Tron and Eldrazi Tron. So many good memories :D

[@vendorbruh9977]

@@jinpachibobochan3532 so you were simply just born evil

[@tomikvrona1681]

I've been recommending your videos on cheating to new judges. The videos of the cheaters, the slow-mo replays, and your commentary are immensely helpful!

[@NikachuMTG]

Awesome! Glad I can help!

[@spoopy0616]

@fnigs2282 dawg why are you so negative? If you don't got nothing good to say don't say shit, all your comments are more cringe than what you're claiming here

[@TheWolfDawg]

Side note: in any constructed event, PLEASE get into the habit of always cutting or shuffling your opponents deck after they shuffle it. Doesn't matter if it's a casual event or a tournament, if every player got into this habit, a lot of cheating would be largely eradicated from the game.

[@akobrakoral]

unfortunately it doesn't stops cheating as one can stack a good card (or some cards) at the top so when you cut you have no way of getting them, but yeah i still agree

[@kiillabytez]

I also thought it was strange that the opponent didn't damand a cut AFTER the shuffle.

[@BeguillingMirage]

The last person to shuffle can always cheat. They simply need one blind cut after every shuffle

[@WACHULUKNAT]

HOWEVER, id rather catch a cheater when all is said and done and giving them more opportunities to cheat just makes them more likel yto get caught. amirite or amirite?????

[@RanOutOfSpac]

@@akobrakoralI like the idea of doing a triple cut. Cutting the deck in 3rds, then randomly order them. Seems more consistent at preventing stacking than simply halving.

[@alexrharvey7]

You can tell he's the villain from his rage-inducing hand shuffling

[@Somethingnow1]

Literally both are shuffling their hands. I'm starting to think that people that hate on hand shuffling just can't shuffle the cards in their hand lol

[@alexrharvey7]

@@Somethingnow1 that's really cool, man

[@davidhowell1415]

@@Somethingnow1 it’s literally a precursor to a slight of hand move for this guy. I’m more surprised he wasn’t caught game 1. The shuffle sounds are what he wants you to get used to hearing. You know your hand you know where every card is. If you didn’t you wouldn’t be on this stage

[@DarkestFiction]

@@davidhowell1415 Here's this issue with this idea: I have ADHD and hand flicking is a thing I do as a habit and self-stim. It's a satisfying feeling; not all people who shuffle their hands are cheating. It's actually something a LOT of pros do too.

[@UnyieldingRylanor]

@@DarkestFiction I have ADHD too, it's not an excuse for poor behaviour or sportsmanship. The rapid hand shuffling is deliberately used to rush/stress the opponent

[@lauravturner]

I don't trust anyone who acts like they are performing an illusion card trick whilst they are supposed to be acting like they are playing poker.

[@Dantevonlocke]

Right? Why do so many players hold their cards like they're on meth? Just look at them and watch. Quit fidgeting like you're jonesing for a fix.

[@Xorthis]

Absolutly, and all these players do that exact same shuffle fidget. Do most competitive MTG players have literally no self control? Or are they all on uppers?

[@HuxtableK]

I was gonna say the same. Sure, it's a pet peeve, but it's really fucking annoying watching people do that. Like, sit the fuck still.

[@lavuair]

Yeah, I'm too organized to do it, myself. Like, my lands go here, instants here, creatures here. That way when it's my turn, unless something really gets disrupted, I can make more efficient use of my time

[@donb7519]

@@Xorthis there is a lot of talk of them using uppers to think better but also cheating is super prevelant sadly

[@RisottoNero-z1w]

It always looked to me the excessive fiddling is to make the opponent miss the subtle movements of cheating

[@jakel7213]

I see so many people saying that the card flicking is annoying/suspect. It makes me wonder how many of these people have ever been to a Magic tournament. At LEAST 75% of people do this, and I've been to at least 100 grand prixs alone.

[@520_metal]

yeah, kibler cheated

[@ewoknips5154]

@@jakel7213 it's annoying then too lol

[@dissraps]

@@jakel7213 wait till you realize 80% of them are cheating

[@jakel7213]

@@dissraps k

[@niignastii]

Dan's movement and quickness with picking that card up and inserting it in a deck, shows that it's incredibly practiced.

[@kiillabytez]

Then why does everyone notice it? Apparently wasn't practiced enough, because there is no misdirection.

[@niignastii]

@kiillabytezhellraezer2657 the comment wasn't to say he was good at it. The comment points out that it's not an accident. It's 100 percent intentional.

[@hollisshaffer1261]

It's actually pretty terrible sleight of hand. If he practiced a few more useful sleights for a few hours, he could make them invisible while also being able to rearrange the entire deck.

[@PappaTom-ub3ht]

@@kiillabytez Because it is on video. Nobody noticed it during play.

[@kiillabytez]

@@PappaTom-ub3ht Not because it's on video but because of the angle.

[@RikkaCherri]

The hand shuffling will always annoy me beyond human reason, I judge a locals yugioh night and I "jokingly" give people warnings about it

[@PieMan061]

The fact the second guy INSTANTLY had an excuse (“I thought a card had fallen and put it back into the deck”), just shows you how much thought he had into cheating. If it truly was a mistake, he wouldn’t even have known right away what the claim was.

[@inFiniteTraCer]

Funny….in his head, he thought he covered all bases. Anyone that has a story ready for some random thing is certainly lying. He was a genius in his mind and these fools will of course believe my story. Hahahaha fail

[@fartpimpson3843]

That stuck out to me too. It's hard to hear the judge but the missing part seems too short to explain "we caught you putting a card from graveyard back into your deck" so as far as I can tell the judge didn't specify why he was being disqualified and the guy supplied an excuse to the unspoken why. Like if a cop says to you "I caught you" and you say "Oh I thought my wallet had fallen into that guy's pocket and I was just retrieving it, but it appears I was mistaken"

[@niwempleh]

to think all he had to do was fumble a little and drop half the deck and it would of worked, for a moment!

[@ThePigKnight]

Frame one excuse is never “I thought the land fell from my deck.” It should always be “Wait what?”

[@Niko__01]

@@ThePigKnight If someone ever claims they caught you doing something, whether or not you are guilty of something, ALWAYS let them explain what they caught you doing, always ask them "what?"

[@spencer2652]

First guy cheats at least twice, and wins the tournament because of it and possible prize money/etc. Only gets 18 month ban. Second guy cheats once, doesn't win the tournament or even finish that match. Gets eventual lifetime ban. When cheating and malicious intent is this obvious and documented, they should all be permanent bans.

[@freireisender2]

Well, the first guy got his 18 month ban from WotC for all tournaments, the second guy only from that one site. And also 18 month is big, if you make a living with the prizes won

[@gingermlg]

@@freireisender2 an 18 month ban for cheating in multiple games at the same tournament is not big. He should've gotten a lifetime ban but wotc were being pussies.

[@robertosnow3841]

And fined

[@lordhawkeye]

Again you are missing the scope here. An 18 month ban from WotC is indeed worse than a life time ban from one store. Bare in mind the evidence of the second guy's cheating was given to WotC who choose to do nothing until the public backlash was strong enough that they gave him a slap on the wrist.

[@spencer2652]

@@lordhawkeye The scope of my message is in the last paragraph. Maybe you missed it.

[@nanettesage1112]

I used to play with a guy that constantly cheated. Sadly, because he was a friend and many of the others I played with always wanted to let him play, I eventually saw our games as MORE of a challenge knowing he would cheat than otherwise. When he won (which was about 90% of the time) it meant nothing to me, but when I won it was GLORIOUS. That friendship has gone to the way side since then but sometimes I do reminisce on how wonderful it was to grind my wins into his ego. Thank you for the happy thoughts.

[@chrisiver8506]

You should have let him know you knew he was cheating and asked for some pointers ;)

[@Austin555661]

I have a friend that does the exact thing However he's my best friend, so when its just us I don't mind, I do cut his deck when we are out with others though

[@DragonstoneWolfe]

I have a friend who also cheats, playing extra lands, drawing extra cards, not paying mana for spells, untapping lands, etc. He always blames it on "being high", but it ruins the games.

[@ragnarbrodaty1963]

@@DragonstoneWolfe playing MTG arena sort out this problem :)

[@DragonstoneWolfe]

@@ragnarbrodaty1963 Yeah, but commander. D:

[@AdamRoss30]

I just found your channel and I love the way you explain the way the decks/cards work instead of just assuming the viewer knows. I used to play MTG casually back in early 2000s so I never really got into enough to understand these complex decks just by looking at them and definitely don't recognize decks or cards by name. So the way you explain what's happening as you watch/react to the videos is great for someone like me who has enough experience to enjoy the game but not enough to know what the hell is happening to in a game without commentary lol

[@NikachuMTG]

You're welcome! I know it helps a lot!

[@Zman82]

Great to see these guys punished but it really sucks for the guys who lost to these cheaters.

[@carlwinslo]

especially when WotC doesnt take the money from the cheater and award it to the victim.

[@bananalord3882]

never thought i would see the day that an ad nauseum player and a tron player would be the heroes

[@zipper4146]

I was expecting some stage magician level sleight of hand, what i got was more than disappointing

[@bjogden]

As a card magician I was expecting at least a cull or a pass. But no, just an obvious put the card on top lol.

[@Ozclusive]

For better or worse mtg doesnt pay well. Card trickers have better options.

[@theweirdlyfriendlymushroom7920]

"Our hero is playing tron" Now those are some words you don't hear very often

[@markusbetts]

You either die a villain, or live long enough to see yourself become the hero

[@lordmalkom1675]

Why is tron so hated?

[@theweirdlyfriendlymushroom7920]

@@lordmalkom1675 1) it's strong and not very interactive, so you either kill it before turn 3 or you lose, and people don't like uninteractive matchups 2) For some reasons people love jund, and the thing tron is really good at is spreading jund's cheeks

[@davidhowell1415]

@@lordmalkom1675 because it’s tron

[@NeiZaMo]

Lesser of two evils.

[@Evrenovic]

I love how Dan never truly said "sorry" about him cheating. lmao. He is quite narcissistic.

[@AllyOJustice]

Please never stop doing vids on MTG cheaters, I don't even play that much MTG but I love hearing all of these decks and seeing how people try to weasel their way through the big leagues.

[@WookieRookie]

It seems that fetch lands are not only by far the most broken lands in the game, but they also help people to break game even more.

[@danielperkins9347]

100%.

[@bennycostello2472]

2 explorrs

[@jdonvance]

2:30 I saw that as it happened. I'm teaching someone to play Magic right now and philosophically, I've boiled it down to saying "Magic is a game of resources, information and procedures". Cutting/shuffling your opponent's deck is procedure you DO NOT compromise on.

[@jaxsonbateman]

"I can't explain my actions". I can explain them for you Dan - you were in a suboptimal position in the game, and opted to cheat in order to make your position better.

[@k0lpA]

I think the word he was looking for is justify

[@Ph0b0ssss]

I had one of those dudes at events I organized. I literally watched dude like a hawk because literally like 80% of people that were coming to those events said he cheated sometimes. He had really impressive win percentage also. So when dude realized he wasn't gonna be able to sneak one in and lost, he stopped coming to tournaments. Nowdays since we lost all support from wotc we do private events and that dude regularly comes but I'm always super strict and verbal with the guy when I play him. I literally ask him to do everything step by step and explain everything because of stuff like in this video. Only reason we allow him to come is because we're small community of guys who truly love mtg and there's not really lot of us. Most of the time there's not enough of us to draft, but hopefully better times will come. Truly sad that someone would resort to cheating.

[@grahamturner2640]

If they have an image to maintain (e.g. Fabrizio Anteri, the guy who mana-weaved, wanted to maintain the image of being a good player, and Dream, the Minecraft speed runner who modified his luck in the game to get good times in speed runs) or they want to gain the image of a pro player (e.g. Jared Boettcher, the shuffle cheater that was temporarily Rookie of the Year), it makes some sense to resort to cheating.

[@gingerlaird1065]

I'll admit this; I use a combo of overhand and weaving shuffles. If I happen to see a useful card at the bottom, I used to try to move it to the top as part of an overhand shuffle. I didn't think of it as cheating until I realized it was very easy to hide sliding that card to the very top in an overhand shuffle. I only shuffle with my cards face down now.

[@stinkypoodog]

Any intentional movement of cards to a more desirable position in the deck is cheating - even if it isnt right to the top. The point of shuffling is to randomize the ordering of all the cards in the deck in order to maintain an equal aspect of randomness in card draw for both players. Any manipulation of that in any way, unless stated on a card to do so, is cheating.

[@Thorinox]

I ABSOLUTELY can not stand people who shuffle their hands over and over and over like that. It is a BIG distraction and ALWAYS a red flag in my book and I am so glad it was something banned at my local game store.

[@lmSnarkk]

Disagree, but maybe that’s just me

[@jjs8426]

It's only acceptable against black discard and some blue counter jank, but that's like super casual.

[@andrewcooper7949]

I'm sorry. I was under the impression you put your most valued card at the top of your deck after fetching. That's why they are called fetch cards, right?

[@RubenSmithZempel]

I am so glad you point out every cheat, because I absolutely couldn't spot them otherwise. You're even excellent at giving "this is hinky" visual cues. But even with that I just can't spot it.So I think you for the kind service you are doing the MTG community.

[@dillionmcwhite5023]

The more of these you watch the easier it’ll get. He does a great job of pointing them out!

[@butterhalfgaming2303]

I can kind of agree on the permanent suspension penalty, especially if the cheating cannot be reasonably considered to be an accident. Like, I can see temporary suspensions if it could have been a mistake (since intentional mistakes are hard to separate from accidental ones), but for cases like that first guy where there is no way they aren't just intentionally stacking their deck (he freaking returned to the deck and openly selected a card, for pete's sake), that should be a permanent ban from professional magic. Consequences need to be infinite in order for it not to be considered in a player's risk assessment for maximizing their chances of winning. 1.5 years is way too short for something that obviously malicious.

[@thesun5275]

Dude, people can change and be reformed. Doing something once doesn't make you an evil demon that can never change. Some people need to learn, but a permanent punishment doesn't do much of anything besides honestly make people scared to ever confess to anything.

[@meatykyun5981]

@@thesun5275 have you ever met a cheater that confesses? reformed my ass, people like you are why murderers are out and about haha

[@shanthagopian7559]

@@thesun5275 Its an official game with prize money involved....fuck him and hisbreform he needs to be perma banned

[@JamesiaInc]

@@shanthagopian7559 Maybe the problem is that a hobby TCG was turned into a profession with prize money and worldwide trips. "Professional" video and card gaming should be banned. Stop turning fun hobbies into this toxic bullshit.

[@MewtwoStruckBack]

@@JamesiaInc I know this is necroposting since this comment was so long ago but it bugs me enough to say something - prizing isn't the problem. Magic actually letting people who are supposed to be the best at their game live off of income from doing so is something that should be emulated, not shunned. If you're the best in the world at ANY game or competitive activity that has enough people involved you shouldn't have to do anything in your life other than that activity to not only survive but thrive.

[@Chorbus]

Damn, the fact the first guy was seemed happy that his opponent got such a good draw should tell you everything about his sportsmanship over the cheats.

[@Nemeroth77]

Honestly I feel like the bans for magic are way too lenient. If someone has intention to cheat, and clearly showed they would do it over and over again in the same tournament, they should be banned for way, way longer than 18 months.

[@gingermlg]

Uh, how about permanent? As one of the cheaters said, playing magic competitively is a privilege, not a right.

[@donb7519]

and yea people are given lifetime banned for edgy jokes in private group chats

[@riffbw]

I'd rather see all cheating bans be lifetime with a sensitivity/training course on how cheating affects the community required to get it lifted. If you are caught again, permanent ban for life. It's okay to be lenient for accidents (dropping cards, miscounting, forgetting if you played a land) as this game can get big fast. But if you are caught manipulating a deck, you're done.

[@gingermlg]

@@riffbw I mean yeah it's just not difficult to not cheat. Especially when prize money is involved, it's almost just theft at that point

[@fjordfish3363]

@@gingermlg not even almost. it is.

[@wardious2562]

Whoever handles their deck like Mr Jeskai did is a menace.

[@Altorin]

Yeah they definitely need two people to beat them up

[@9forMortalMen]

I like Lanthiers character arc in this video. Went from bullshit denial, to trying to cover his ass, to finally requesting a permanent ban as just consequence for his behavior. I wonder if Lanthier had gotten to the point where competitive had just gotten to be too much. Sometimes you overdo something to the point when it isn’t fun anymore, then you realize, when you can’t do that thing anymore, you’re actually happier.

[@big_boy]

maybe, hopefully he grew, tho at that point his reputation among his peers was so ruined, i assume he wouldnt want to play magic anymore anyway.

[@blackbot7113]

I can't make out what he's saying in the video. What is he saying?

[@shanewalker6630]

@@blackbot7113 he said he put the land back in the deck because he “thought it fell out while shuffling”

[@shanewalker6630]

Honestly, having played against him a lot locally at tower he just couldn’t stand loosing to people he deemed “worse” than him. But also having won two GPs, and played at a ton of PTs, he was arguable a lot better than most of us. But I lost to this guy so many times and having been caught cheating just once puts everything into question, was he even that much better, or was it the mentality that pushed him to do stuff like this for years?

[@9forMortalMen]

@@shanewalker6630 I dunno man. He seems like the kind of guy that will ruin his own hobby. For me, I see this all the time with toxic LoL players who finally get banned and are honestly relieved to get out of the cycle.

[@nathanevans332]

I haven't played a lot of MTG in my life so I watch these without a lot of knowledge on the game in general, but I can't get enough of your content after stumbling on it and you make it so entertaining without the need to be an expert at this game! Subscribed!

[@NikachuMTG]

Glad you like them! Tons more like this are in the making!

[@nathanevans332]

@@NikachuMTG Can't wait! Watching your videos has gotten me interested in the game again :)

[@fate3071]

I used to play with a guy that was so good at stacking his deck that only doing a full shuffle could even begin to unstack it. Every game of commander we played with him ended up turning into a futile game of archenemy

[@marklehman5272]

Jesus christ this guy's out here doing the worst slight of hand imaginable and no one catches it😂😂

[@ZKETCH42591]

@@gregoryford2532 Yup im learning card magic and hes deliberately cupping the needed card in his palm and overhand shuffling which lets him keep it on top after he feels good and done. Most shops wont let you do that for that very reason, if not that you have to cut or ask to cut.

[@marklehman5272]

This is extremely basic sleight of hand.... You have to be prepared for it....

[@ZKETCH42591]

@@marklehman5272 exactly, it's really basic and easy to pick up just like a false lift.

[@alicepbg2042]

@@gregoryford2532 not really. if you look for it, it's insanely easy to see in person.

[@evilspoon5280]

@@alicepbg2042 ...the cheater would wait until his opponent was distracted in some way, that is how he was getting away with such cheating.

[@deadeyeridge]

The fidgeting mtg players do is utterly insane. Monsters and mountain dew really do contain a lot of sugar.

[@10tails]

I would ban that annoying hand flicking. Like literally, if it ain't your turn, hand is on table. All the flicking does is open the game up to slight of hand.

[@deadeyeridge]

@@10tails totally agree.

[@epicsketchers]

I laughed so hard when the guy straight up put the card from the grave into his deck lol

[@ogre589]

The first guy is doing whats known as a false shuffle. They get what they need on either the top or bottom of the deck then attempt to subtly shuffle the deck WITHOUT letting that card leave that spot. Every single card game has suffered from this cheat and its baffling to think people STILL attempt this cheat despite all the cameras and legions of weaponized autism studying them.

[@Saviour_YT]

I hate people that constantly shuffle their hand, it’s annoying af and I hate how those people typically play.

[@zachariousmccool5768]

I hate when people do that with their hands. Like why? Its annoying and ruins the cards. Also disrespect to the spirit of the game

[@lordmalkom1675]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/raOzo2ucecyer6s The answer to this question

[@timothyburke5329]

It makes it harder for your opponent to know if you've got the same cards in hand turn after turn. Nothing disrespectful about that.

[@d43m0n412]

its usually a good idea to swap cards in your hand around especially when playing against someone who is playing cards like thoughtseize/cabal therapy, due to the fact that if they do not take note of the cards in hand and you flip flop alot its kinda like putting the ball under a different cup in a way... but for people who do that, they shouldnt do it so aggressively as it can damage the cards and if you are someone who shuffles the hand please double sleeve your cards... they are cheaper then replacing them

[@alicepbg2042]

@@baconbenjidestroyer let's say your opponent knows you have X card in your hand. and you draw a second copy of it. if you shuffle your hand (which you can easily do without making noise). whenever you play either of them, your opponent will think it's that same one they already knew about. if you don't shuffle, you better remember they know about that card and play the correct one, because if you forget, a player that pays attention will see it's a different copy, meaning they still know you have X in your hand.

[@ikejohnson5494]

@@alicepbg2042 a. Then you should only do it after hand disruption is used, not while thoghtseize is on the stack. B. You could just not shuffle your cards and they are in chronological order then.

[@wetwillie]

It's never anyone's first time cheating. It's the first time they've been caught cheating. Once a cheater always a cheater. Permanent bans are the only way to go.

[@adamrobinson6951]

Agreed. I'd start by fining them equal to all prize money they've ever won, plus the top prize of the tournament they're caught in. Then ban them for 5 years. While I understand many people would go straight for the perma-ban, 5 years is long enough that they'd have to find alternative employment to pay the fine.

[@toewoe]

@@adamrobinson6951 well posting a fine would be legally complicated as typically thats for breaking laws, not breaking the rules of a card game. There could be a contract stating that you agree to those terms, but even then it would be difficult to implement.

[@adamrobinson6951]

@@toewoe Professionals get fined all the time, whether that's in poker, sports or more normal workplaces. If there's prize money involved and you've broken the agreed rules, you can easily be fined.

[@iitstre_4550]

@@toewoe Fines in sports and other professional games are common place, and have been for a very long time. It’s not hard to implement a fine when there’s money involved.

[@jawstrock2215]

@@iitstre_4550 Fines are to allow the players to keep playing, so they pay it. If you also ban them, they have no reason to pay up.

[@kevinburroughs1134]

Was at that event here in Ottawa, and ended up losing to Dan in the top 8. He ended up winning the event… store did a great job handling this, but it still bothers me to this day how he probably cheated all day, and his whole magic career and had just never gotten caught till then….

[@PieMan061]

He’s definitely done this before with how quick of an excuse he had when the judge came up

[@amacuro]

When a player cheat on camera (stream no less) it just tells you that they are doing it without thinking, meaning they are so used to it that they don't even think about it.

[@boxtank5288]

Though props to him for ACKNOWLEDGING his foul conduct and leaving the scene (as other stores would likely have hosted him but with a strained rep) on his terms, one person who was mentioned on a video similar basically sold his entire collection and threw a bitch fit on twitter (even if subdued) about his 4 year suspension, calling the ban a sentence.

[@amacuro]

@@boxtank5288 Yeah, most of them disappear in shame. Some of the most shameless ones do keep coming back up haunt us though haha

[@stanclark8824]

@@boxtank5288 some people just need a life haha a fit over a 4yr ban for breaking the rules? that guy sounds like a spoiled crybaby. that ban should have been longer just for the fun of it hahaha

[@realcokejam]

That card shuffling at the start is like watching poker players shuffle their poker chips in fast forward.

[@GravitaryCOM]

Once again, a brilliant video. I love seeing cheaters getting caught. However, I really do NOT understand why they ban these people for only 18 months. Ban them for life from the game and publicly post their names on a website and what exactly they did. I remember already talking on one of these KZbin comments about a toxic player who cheated AND even led the tournaments in Berlin, Germany; and man do these people deserve being called out forever for it.

[@drmajalis1583]

That super aggressive hand shuffling/flicking super triggers my sensory overload Seriously, is there any reason to do it that much other than being annoying

[@blackbot7113]

Maybe after drawing a card or revealing your have so your opponent can't pin down which card is where. But other than that...

[@drmajalis1583]

@@blackbot7113 you just need to do a couple of shuffles you don't need to riffle like these cheaters Our you know you can just stack your hand in a pile when not looking at it

[@chrisiver8506]

Helps you think, the cheater overdoes it tho

[@scottwallbank4794]

@@chrisiver8506 I don't get how it helps you think. He knows the cards in his hand. It's just to be distracting at this point.

[@blackbot7113]

@@drmajalis1583 I mean, yeah, doing it that much is obviously overdoing it. I meant more a general "Sometimes shuffling your hand can be a legitimate move".

[@michaelmoody1995]

As a Jeskai Control Player myself, you don't even need to cheat to win, the deck is good enough on its own.

[@coldhank]

amen brotha

[@gianandreauggetti4119]

That continous, compulsory, unnecessary and nervous card shuffling, that I've seen in SO MANY MtG players, is a VERY bad sign. Dudes, get a grip!

[@KSternGaming]

I can't really tell if the Copperline Gorge was directly on top or just underneath the top of the deck when he was searching, but if it was on top that would add even more irony to the situation considering had he just drawn for turn he'd have the green he was after without the dishonest behavior.

[@jorgemendieta8085]

That's so awkward. In my country you always present your deck to your opponent after shuffling, even in a commander casual game. So this things doesn´t happen often. But I have DQ someone for bribery, but never for cheating.

[@NikachuMTG]

Well, you’ll present your deck a whole lot less if you’re knowingly cheating.

[@zimoy.701]

Lmao bribery... I remember someone at my LGS told of a past experience at a local event where he said "declare attackers" but the opponent mistook it for "all attack" (the two phrases sound very similar in Chinese) and immediately fired off a Settle the Wreckage. After a brief period of confusion and explanations, the opponent just asked "okay so for how much money will you concede the match?" This situation is very interesting in that you could argue that the attacking person might have used deliberately ambiguous-sounding words to confuse the opponent, but it's also kinda the opponent's fault for rushing.

[@skyeguy7914]

That’s common etiquette in games like Yugioh here. While you aren’t required to do it, it’s a show of good faith to offer. People usually decline it in friendlier matches. But it’s more respectable in a formal match.

[@JMONTY7654]

We present here too. I usually turn it down because I play casual EDH. Although one person did get caught at my lgs. They had several decks and would change after each game. Turns out he had stacked the top 10 or so cards so that they would win every game. Someone finally went to cut his deck and they freaked out saying they couldn't and it was against the rules yada yada yada. He never returned after that.

[@jimscott772]

I’ve always said card flickers are more probable to be cheaters. Obviously not all are because tons of people incessantly flick their cards, but watch them closer when you play them.

[@darkma1ice]

These cheaters when caught should only be told at the next tournament and their cars should all be creased

[@bunnface9511]

That unnecessary card shuffling is the nervousness he has from cheating. My god, i would get sick hearing those cards going back and forth all the time

[@StoicFighter92]

A characteristic of a cheater that a lot of people don't realise is that they give guilty body language, they won't give you eye contact and they most definitely will not actively or clearly communicate they speak fast and do things that indicate their dishonesty this dude in green Hoodie exemplifies all of these things

[@twgok3162]

I mean ur kinda trying to hide information from ur opponent at all times

[@MrFozzDawg]

I remember the Lanthier bullshit going down. I was deep into Dredge and it was so obvious he lied about how many Stomping Ground we played... shit luck to mill both but thats magic for ya man.

[@DrPepsidewWBO]

Something I've always wondered why only 2 are run instead of more/less. Could you explain the rationale on ratios?

[@MrJpurvis620]

the look on Nikachu's face when he put the card on top of the deck... 🤣

[@parisulki729]

Oh, Nikachu is explaining the rules and decks for all the non-magic people, who will come from the algorithm, how cute

[@NikachuMTG]

You got it!

[@miguelocefalo]

As a player who recently got back to mtg after almost 15 years, I do appreciate it aswell. And Nikachu's channel in general, it's been really useful. Edit: But OP's point is valid. This kind of videos were the first shown by the algorithm.

[@TheMattmatic]

@@miguelocefalo Yeah I was away from the game a long time too and had a lot of catching up to do when I came back, so def appreciated content creators who didn’t assume that everyone knew everything!

[@scottwallbank4794]

Better cute than a patronising jerk.

[@zachhunter6125]

I only ever play magic recreationally with my buddies and our adherence to rules outside the basics can be best described as relaxed, hell the only competitive event I’ve ever been a part of was a sealed league at my local shop when I was 14 and learning to play. Having even the shorter explanations here is very helpful and appreciated. Much thanks Nikachu

[@vVyohasakuraVv]

that constant hand shuffeling would have pissed me off to table flip proportions

[@dnate4946]

I had my first mtg game yesterday and him cheating stuck out like a sore thumb for me lol

[@gerardgenesissantos7778]

Thats why you should always take note when an opponent will fulfill an effect that causes them to shuffle their library. Its your due diligence to shuffle your opponents' deck.

[@313cardcollections6]

Unfortunately there is ALOT of cheating in MTG. At my local LGS certain groups of players cheated regularly and it went unchecked. Turns out 2 people in this notorious group of four constantly win sealed tournaments. Why? A little help from thier friends. Turns out they would trade off cards to each other needed for multiples of certain cards. I suspected it after getting beaten down by these guys and wondering how could this guy have 3 copies of an uncommon card that ultimately was my demise. We are only opening 8 packs of cards. To pull 3 identical uncommon cards out of the same bundle box is just impossible. I brought it up discreetly to the owner. Sure enough after looking at footage of pregame deck building all four players were passing cards under the table to each other to help thier cause. All four are now banned from the store and assigned seating is now implemented. Plenty of warning signs and new rules are now being observed. This group had been cheating for a couple years now it turns out. So make sure your LGS is following guidelines to prohibit cheating. It does happen...ALOT!

[@Fausto_4841]

i'd have flipped the table just to get greenman to shut the hell up with his cards. get a fidget spinner or something, DAMN.

[@TheTrueBongoKnight]

A game store near me got their hands on a Stop That! (the Un-set card) and had a Stop That! rule, where if someone is excessively flicking the cards in their hand, like Mr. Firstie, you could "Invoke the Stop That! clause" during friendly games only, letting you cast Stop That! without paying its mana cost if it gets really annoying. Naturally they had to stop that when someone tried invoking Stop That! in an actual local tournament. (They knew it was only for friendly games)

[@HiddenMis7]

the sheer fact that people will cheat even when a camera is watching their every movement is unbelievable to me

[@dustyfox6511]

First guy was shuffling while looking at the faces of his cards aswell. Just tilt the deck so the cards aren't facing you people. It's not hard. Also do people just not split their opponent's decks at this tournament?

[@braddl9442]

There is a bit of Jedi mind tricking going on there when that happens.

[@Negative_NBG]

I do actually shuffle like that but I just make eye contact with my opponent so I know they aren't watching my deck lol

[@jacobhoeft4278]

Lime green guy uses social pressure to get away with the non-cut against the tron player, he asks first if he is "good". It can be really hard to hear someone communicate essentially "do you trust me?" and say no. I try to remember that I don't cut your deck because I don't trust you, I cut your deck so I don't have to trust you.

[@breakingtide]

@@Negative_NBG cheater

[@brettboudreau8563]

Man I know it's tactically sound but the little hand shuffle thing pro players do annoys me to no end.

[@RogueDemon1199]

Whats the tactical side

[@NikachuMTG]

disguising where the card you drew is in your hand. For example, if you never shuffle your hand, the opponent might determine what side of your hand is spells and lands and use that info based when you take a freshly drawn card and put it in one place or another.

[@outdatedautopsyproductions8427]

What is it with cheaters being bright green

[@walcodebruyn2135]

Please no hate, as I'm curious and KZbin recommended a video about a card game i know nothing about but what we're they doing at about the 1:36 mark? Shuffling cards? But why are some on the table then? I'm confused. Also 4:13 is that a dice used in D&D I'm intrigued now for sure.

[@NikachuMTG]

one player played a card that look's at the opponent's hand and takes a card away. So the opponent put his cards on the table. And that is a D-20 used in D&D but we can use it to keep track of our life since we start at 20.

[@walcodebruyn2135]

@@NikachuMTG thanks for the reply, i am a new sub and really grateful KZbin recommend it to me it's definitely fascinating. Really informative channel

[@JonahUniverse]

The first time I worked up courage to play in-person, I faced a cheater and it killed my willingness to play in person:(

[@peterrhines1516]

sorry to hear that

[@whtdrgn33]

Like you said anybody that shuffles and plays with their hand that much is doing something wrong that's absolutely ridiculous

[@benhensley3621]

I love the 'lost race' Mario Kart Wii music during part of this xD

[@filippoghisoni6569]

Isn't it beautiful that right after the cheating with the Geist of Saint Traft, the shuffling became slippery and uncertain. He's well aware of how much of a sore loser is in that moment. LoL

[@The73MPL4R]

I would've surrended before he even had a chance to cheat purely because the incessant hand shuffling would have driven me insane

[@daggeranddoctor]

Really funny how the guy shuffling his hand around matched so well with the music.

[@FoggyMemoryProductions]

I remember the incident with Dan. Wizards Tower is the locals I go to and I remember seeing both the Facebook post about and the video on twitch. Those were some times.

[@Magicannon_]

Pretty obvious if you are playing competitively, always cut your opponent's deck. The second one from the player's perspective can be harder to pick up on. Still, for the first one, it's one reason why I'm not much of a fan of Modern. I'm not great with the higher power levels, but the insane amounts of fetching and shuffling drag things on, especially since not everyone is an expert speed shuffler. Hopefully Pioneer gains some sort of popularity in a lgs remotely close to me so I can give it a try. And the rapid card flicking is always annoying.

[@gregorycanonidis5854]

Be thorough. Take your time to write down any important information, and always shuffle your opponent's deck (yours as well) as part of the final cut. Honestly though I think those permabans coming from the shopkeepers are the way to go. This is a matter we, as players, must take into our own hands first.

[@bobfranklin2572]

What are the rules around someone shuffling like that? Can i ask them to stop? Do i have any authority to do so? It would deeply distract me and cause me a lot of pain, i have misophonia, an auditory disorder. I had to mute the video, irl would be IMPOSSIBLE to play

[@kordiggity420]

1 thing I've noticed is that people who shuffle there hand and cards for no absolute reason whatsoever are 100% cheating everytime.

[@kordiggity420]

Their*

[@Motolmang]

I gotta give it to Dan for at least owning up to his actions and basically being a sacrificial lamb for organizers to be more harsh on cheaters

[@neckropemancer5416]

Did his precedent work or are they still pussies when it comes to banning cheaters?

[@MBValentine]

That stood out to me Took it on the chin at least

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

That was only after he tried to deny it and even tried to present false evidence. If he had admitted it after being caught then maybe but he didnt.

[@displayer6023]

What a true victim indeed. If he didn't cheat and lie, we would have never known how noble he truly is. Safe to say he's your hero now, huh. "Sacrificial lamb" Give me an effing break, man!

[@taylorowen9833]

@@displayer6023 I wouldn't call him a "Sacrificial lamb", but he did the decent thing, which is to disappear with a final message that he fucked up, he should be banned permanently for it, and anyone else that does should be banned as well. He's no hero, but it's at least a decent exit for a cheater.

[@Knight_Vibes]

You can always tell they're cheating when they shuffle their own hand like a new card is gonna magically pop up

[@velphidrow]

I just have ADHD bro.

[@Knight_Vibes]

@@velphidrow me too my dude. Maybe I'm just not confident enough in my shuffling skills to not worry about cards flying everywhere

[@velphidrow]

@@Knight_Vibes i usually keep them stacked in 1 so it goes front to back. Keeps my hands occupied without worrying about dropping somthing.

[@Knight_Vibes]

@@velphidrow tbh I don't even have a physical deck, I started getting into MTG around pandemic times so I haven't had a reason to go out and buy cards yet. I just use cockatrice with my friends. I really want to make my own deck at some point tho

[@velphidrow]

@@Knight_Vibes it's a good investment imo. Edh and Modern are my favorite and im getting into legacy

[@gregrussell1787]

When I played live tourneys 20+ years ago people ALWAYS cheated. I would call out suspicious things as a spectator and some players would get so pissed off. They were always the biggest offenders.

[@yoshu4221]

How the tournament staff don't just delegate a non-player to specifically shuffle for each player to prevent shuffle cheating mystifies me.

[@kdrgaming3344]

Cheaters and guilty people always say bullshit like "I accept it" "I deserve it" WAY too quickly. A person that was being punished for something they didn't do would never stop proclaiming their innocents. Why would this guy accept the consequences so quickly and say he "deserves it" if it "looks way way worse than it is???" lol! Even though it's known that cheaters and guilty people a certain way, it is VERY hard to change how you would act in those situations. So because of that, specific language and body language end up being a VERY powerful tool in determining if someone is guilty or not.

[@kozilekjay7884]

Honestly one of the most irritating tendencies in magic players is shuffling their hand over and over again for no reason. when I played magic with my friends they had a tendency of ripping their card sleeves apart because they wouldn't stop doing it

[@nearzero12]

Even knowing he's a cheater, the fact that he asked for a permanent ban as a penance... I can respect that.

[@terry4574]

Meh. "If I can't have it, no one can" is a weird way to save face lol

[@dissraps]

He already lost his Sponsor, banned permanently from the store, suspended, and exposed to the entire internet. He already lost everything saying "lock the door after you throw me out" is just gaslighting lol especially when he already lied about doing it until he felt more repercussions

[@ryuranzou]

I think any cheater should get a permanent ban. Even if they never cheat again knowing your opponent is morally capable of doing it will mess with you.

[@Kuubudaraa]

I don't respect a cheater, even if they've atoned

[@jamesgaston2745]

I think the punishment should be that they are only in tournaments with other known cheaters. I think a full tourney of everyone screwing each other would be fun to watch.

[@pyrotempestwing]

There are multiplayer video games that use this logic. I approve.

[@manramen]

Are we seriously having money on the line tournaments and allowing players to shuffle on an honor system? Pile shuffling is the only way to ensure it's a random shuffle, and opponent cuts your deck. I'm sure a pro cheater or a card shark could find a way to use that to TRY and cheat but the cutting of the deck is what helps ensure against stacking a deck.

[@ShadowedZen]

I use to play with a guy who hated you cutting his deck. But if you didnt for some reason every comander game started with turn 0 layline of the void, Turn one dark ritual, sol ring, liliana It was uncanny.

[@metalliholic]

Yea reminds me of when I started playing commander and one of the guys just happens to have the same 5-8 cards every match and yet I’ve played several games where I sometimes don’t even see the same cards ever.

[@tkell31]

Remember being at pro-tour SD. Doing well. 3-1. Guy tried the old play a land, think, combat, think, casually play a land and cast a 5 mana minion. Called a judge and the guy claims I skipped playing a land. Judge eventually made him pick up a land, but should have been a game loss. Won the match and went on to my best pro tour finish...21st and a 1250 win. Can't stand cheaters and wonder how many times I lost because of it.

[@aimhigher7805]

Love how he tried to shuffle off camera

[@mikotagayuna8494]

I love how many of these cheaters end up making some pathetic "sorry not sorry" statements after getting caught as if their past accomplishments should make up for their present and future perfidy like some karmic investment.

[@nuxkamina]

The shuffling and cheating is hawt. Dude has skillz. Genetic dead-end.

[@LowerDerek]

Man how you caught it on video is just glorious. Good work.

[@COMPNOR]

We have a saying in our playgroup, "if you feel the need to cheat at Magic, you deserve to win." If your life is so hollow that you feel compelled to cheat at a game of cardboard, then you do you, boo. Once you get your cheated win, the rest of us will just keep playing.