RFR #2: The Most Flexible Cartridge in the World? 6mm ARC vs 6.5 Grendel vs 224 Valkyrie

[@SocialRegressive]

Technical Notes: @jimhans1 just reminded me that 224 Valkyrie is based on 6.8 SPC (30 Remington), not .220 Russian. The brass still lasts longer than 22 Nosler, but only roughly 4 firings-worth.

[@orkboy59]

If Jim says it, I believe it.

[@alexzamora6700]

I agree! 6arc is so flexible . I’m hand loading lead free for coyotes (California resident). Can’t wait for lapua to make brass!

[@alexzamora6700]

Cfe223 is working well as also.

[@cadillacvelocity]

What would be really neat is if they create a higher pressure case like SIG is doing with the .277 SIG Furry. What are your thoughts?🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸

[@Mike-xi4zt]

An AR-15 Bolt will not hold up to those High pressures. They limit the pressure in a 6 mm ARC because the bolt has so much metal removed for that case head can't handle higher pressure. You would need a whole new gun for a higher pressure 6 mm arc

[@pablopenasco4254]

Arc looks great. I’m already into Grendel for many years so not about to buy Arc yet. If market proves to support it more then I will get one.

[@justa3v619]

Same here. I would eventually like to build one once ammo is more available but the minimal difference in performance isn’t really worth the switch for me. I have 6.5 ammo stacked deep and 2 rifles an 18” and 12” both shoot sub moa. Even out to 600yds which is the farthest I’ve shot them but with my 18” faxon I regularly shoot 2” groups at 350-400yds with off the shelf ammo. Most accurate I’ve found for that barrel off the shelf is the hornady sst. Which I figured the eld would be better but my barrel prefers the sst but it shoots pretty much any quality ammo 1 moa. I have several 120gn Remington loads both are BTHP not sure of the difference one box has a deer one has a target but the bullets look identical, hornady 123gn sst and eld, ppu 110fmj and 120gn bthp American eagle 90gn tnt and 120gn bthp barnes vor-tx 115gn federal fusion 120gn Lehigh defense 110gn controlled chaos and probably a few more im forgetting. I have a pile of the 100gn wolf glad I bought a few cases off Sportsmans guide a couple years back when it was only $130 a case now it’s $350 a case. The wolf shoots ok sometimes it’ll be 2 moa and sometimes it’ll be 4 moa just depends lol

[@tedarcher9120]

6 arc is just 6mm grendel. You can just neck down your brass and continue to use it

[@chadillac95]

At this point, you'd probably be better off having the 6.5 grendel and the 22 arc. I personally didn't like the numbers I saw out of the 6.5 grendel. Once the 6 ARC came out, I jumped on it. So now I don't see a reason for me to get the 6.5 grendel or the 22 ARC

[@LRRPFco52]

131 factory loads for 6.5 Grendel. The new 100gr ELD-VT exceeds or matched 6mm ARC 103-108gr. Velocity is much faster with 100gr Grendel with less pressure.

[@rosswitte]

I can't unsee this. Thank you and I'll never forgive you for making this series. Crap, this is gonna cost me.

[@ArkansasBadBoy]

I've watched this video a couple of times now, mainly because of my love for the 6mm ARC, but I failed to catch your comment at the 18 minute mark about the 25-06 until today and I dearly love this cartridge and will never need anything bigger. I have also discovered some incredibly good long-range potential after working up some loads with the Berger 135gr LRHT that I've always felt was possible. Good stuff.

[@64samsky]

I have a 6mm ARC and I reload. The 6.5 Grendel uses the same bolt and magazines. I still love my Grendel though.

[@dannydurham5716]

The new Howa Mini offers several of these. It is freaking awesome! Great video

[@bigbasscatcher86]

Well boo I was hoping for the grendel.....oh well it's going to be fun series watch. Looking forward to the build and load development!

[@nataliedeyton6829]

I deer hunt with 6.5 Grendel 20 inch faxon barrel shooting hornady 123 eld-m. It has dropped 2 200lb bucks in the last 2 years (close shots tho). It also holds under 1 moa out to 300 (all I have shot). It’s light ,accurate, and hits intended target hard with lots of tissues damage. Wolf 6.5 Grendel sucks for accuracy!!! 3-4 moa. You can also get a 130gr federal GMM but all my 6.5’s shoot the 123 gr the most accurate tho

[@SocialRegressive]

No replacement for displacement. Bigger bullets just have their own magic. How often do you get exit wounds with 6.5 Grendel?

[@58harwood]

Every time I use a Barnes bullet! 😭

[@preacherbiggin]

@@SocialRegressive no issues on this end with exit wounds with my grendels. (16",18", & 24" barrels) we use to use 120gr nosler BT's but have switched over to the 120 Speer gold dot and are loving them. Shot a buck last season quartering toward me and actually captured the bullet on the opposite side under the hide of the ham. Bullet expanded perfect and weighed 117 grains. Text book performance. Deer took a couple steps and stumbled, finished right there. Can't say enough good things about the little round.

[@justa3v619]

@@preacherbiggin that’s the same bullet I use. Well I’m pretty sure it is the same bullet that federal uses in their 120gn fusion round. They expand at really low velocities I’ve shot water jugs @ 350yds and the recovered bullets all expanded over .5 some even over .6 I’ve always had a good exit wound and really prefer them over the hornady sst because of that. I first started with the 123gn sst but the first two deer I shot with it neither had an exit wound. Granted neither deer made it more than 20yds from where it was shot had I needed a blood trail there wouldn’t have been much. I’m using an 18” faxon match series barrel and the accuracy is insane even with factory ammo. I’ve shot 2” groups at 350yds and with my 100gn nosler bt I’ve shot 3 round groups at 100yds you’d swear were only one shot from a .30 caliber rifle lol. I’ve just always wished I could get another 150-200fps more muzzle velocity out of the Grendel and it would no doubt be the hands down winner. I like what I see from the 6mm arc but until ammo is more available I don’t see that much of an improvement over the Grendel to make the swap. 6.5 Grendel ftw. By the way I also have a 12” Odin works barreled Grendel that I’m really liking especially inside 300yds although it will get out much farther than that. Gun only weighs 6.4lbs with a loaded mag sling and leupold mark ar 1.5-4x scope. It’s really hard to beat especially if you will be carrying the rifle for a while.

[@bradschmitt2792]

Why would you hunt with a match bullet? You should be shooting hunting bullets. The ELDX, SST, VMAX or soft points. ELDM are target bullets that don't expand like a hunting bullet.

[@buckaroobonsi555]

I am a 6.5 Grendel guy myself. Lots of bullets for the 6.5mm and a lot of powder choices. Long brass life and a deer slayer for sure! The 6mm ARC is fairly new but the 6.5 Grendel has been around a long time!

[@millermanhal]

I am about to get a 6.5grendel. 😢just hope it doesn't go the way of the dodo. Love the testimonials on deer 🦌 out to 300yards. Just seems perfect choice for ar15 where 6.5creedmoor is so popular...handloading seems economical. 6mm bullet weight makes me nervous on deer. But will keep an open mind.

[@rpk5250]

What type of platform are you shooting your Grindel out of?

[@jerryconrad2737]

Good news HSM now Loads a 75 grain VMax for 6 ARC. And Hornady also now loads a 80 grain varmint round for 6 ARC. I have a 20" gas gun in 6 ARC and love it. My favorite gun to shoot.

[@tompanek7511]

Absolutely Get on it!!! Need more companies putting these out.

[@billstevens5277]

Eagle Eye Shooting has also worked a lot with 6 ARC, both in AR and bolt guns.

[@SocialRegressive]

Kenny is beast. I'm floored by the performance he gets out of 6 arc.

[@OlTrailDog]

I went with a 6mm ARC build, but I'm quite surprised by the 224 Valkyrie values. Ammo is available in the stores for more than I want to pay. Hence, reloading became the alternative. Recoil is very minimal.

[@billhutton5153]

I'm on my 3rd valkyrie. 1st one had 6k rounds thru it and was still 1/2 MOA!! I hand load and may I suggest a 85 grain Valkyrie at 2950 fps. I push it with 2000mr. Still carries 500ft lbs at 700yrds!! Heard others post valk is pointless!! BS, zero at 200yrds and aim basically dead on from 100-350 curds. Pointless? I think not!! I can push a 52gr up to 95gr with my 6.5 twist!

[@wesleym7927]

My Valkyrie has a 1 6.5 barrel also and does like the fusion 90 grainers broke my heart as I deer hunt alot and qanted to try it. Not many hunting load for the caliber.😔 I need to try some more loads as I don't reload.

[@wesleym7927]

Same here 75 grainers are spotty and 90 Grain fusions are like 3 to 5 inch groups at 100 yards really sucks I was hoping my barrel would like the heavier stuff 🤷‍♂️ Gotta experiment with more rounds or I'm gonna get mad a put a 6.5 grendel barrel and bolt in lol.

[@wesleym7927]

@pcbe Man I hate that seems this Valkyrie is all over the place. Makes me wish I'd gotten a 6.5 grendel or 6 arc 🤷‍♂️

[@tomforeman4976]

I shoot a 224. 1 in 7 22inch barrel in AR 15 base. Just went to shooting school with 1270 yard option with 100 increments down to 100. Corona zero at 100 yards built bullet rack for 1200 yards dialed numbers and done a direct hit verified at all yardage. Then completed 180 shots in 1 and a half days in class. If I missed any of the shot we diagnosed why I missed and it was never the gun. To fast of twist in longer shot may influence bullet windage.

[@JAKesler]

There are so many new cartridges that really peak interest and this is one is high on that list

[@jeffdavis7616]

For a ranch rifle it's nearly impossible to beat a 5.56/223. Yes it not the hammer of Thor at 600 yards but im not making 600 yard shots on Deer under any circumstance. That's my own ethics. Pigs and coyotes possibly but I really don't when or where they die. All that said I have both 224 Valkyries (2) and 6 ARC (2). They are specialty weapons. Not GP ( general purpose) which is what a ranch rifle is. One of the reasons i don't use them as a GP, is ammo availability more specific brass availability. Out of the AR platform to stay streamline I don't run a brass catcher. You will almost always lose brass. In 5.56/223. I don't care. Every trip to my local rifle range i pick 10 - 30 cases in 5.56/223. I never see 6 ARC or Valkyrie brass on the ground. It's nearly impossible to beat a 5.56/223 in ammo availability. 35gr - 77gr and any gun shop I've walked into. Again the expensive stuff is still cheaper then the cheapest 6 ARC. It's on par with the 224 Valkyrie if they even have it. Just as a practical matter the 5.56/223 is the superior cartridge for a GP/Ranch rifle.

[@jakedawgwhite88]

My money load for varmints in the grendel is based on the 107 matchking. Surprising bc for weight and will allow speeding up. Would I shoot this load at a deer no, hogs at closer range yes. I’ve got hits at a grand with it on a 1 mil target but holding on. Have held on a one minute sized target at 500. My plans are to run the 123 sst for its bullet construction at moderate speeds. I wish 6mm arc were around when I build my grendel, but the grendel is a great cartridge and seems to have the right qualities on impact at practical ranges for whitetails and hogs.

[@000one]

Advantage 1. IF you are only talking AR-15 format, The best point is, like me, I can shoot the “best" as far as price and availability, the 5.56, BUT I can switch to my favorite AR caliber 6.5 Grendel. So the advantage is not the caliber, but the format by swithcing out my upper. All of these calibers are great, but with an AR15, I can shoot all of them with a few uppers, and one lower. I only own one semi non AR rifle. A Marlin Mach2 .17 for rabbits, squeels and fowl. I killed a small turkey with it because 100 yard head shots are very possible with the Mach2. So 2 formats and a 20 guage with a few handguns are all i will ever need in the lower 48.

[@jimhans1]

.224Valk brass is based on the 6.8SPC cartridge, NOT the .220Russian cartridge. My choice would be/is the 6.5Grendel first, then 6ARC or .22Grendel. Lots of options for the 6mm with regards to bullets, but all designed to work at .243 velocities. Grendel has been around long enough there are a lot of bullets that work great with it, in lead based or lead free options.

[@SocialRegressive]

You're right; my misspeak. It needs different mags, etc.

[@rileyneufeld7001]

Not really true most newer bullets have a relatively low velocity expansion threshold.

[@jimhans1]

@@rileyneufeld7001 not near as low as you’d think, most rifle bullets still need between 1400-1600+ fps to even start expanding let alone get decent expansion.

[@Mike-xi4zt]

243 win velocity from 6mm arc is not possible no matter what Hornady says. You will destroy the bolt of an AR 15 and blow primers trying to do it. The 6 mm ppc is basically the same cartridge and it hasn't been able to achieve 243 velocities for the last 4 decades why do you think a 6 mm Arc/ 6mm ppc on a machined out AR-15 Bolt is going to do it today?

[@jimhans1]

@@Mike-xi4zt who said ARC is going to get to .243 velocities?

[@REDs_Reapers]

Wish the .277WLV had made the list- lol. Basically a poor mans' 6.8SPC. I've had amazing results on yotes out to 365yds!! Sub-MOA from a 16" barrel @ 2700fps with 90gr Speer TnT varmint bullets!! Uses all standard AR-15 components.

[@MikeSessler]

Great comparison, Kyle. I tried 224 Valkyrie when it came out. Never good get any decent accuracy out of it, though I think it was a bad barrel (cheap PSA). Bought a 6.5 Grendel barrel to replace the Valkyrie in March of 2020 right before the world went mad and we also moved to a homestead. Worked up a couple good loads for it, but haven't shot it extensively. Did a 6 mm ARC upper build this winter and am pretty impressed thus far. Initial handloads are showing good promise; need to get back on the range to test the next iteration. I did take it out to empty some factory brass a few weeks back. Hitting at 600 yards was pretty easy with the 108 ELD-M. Hit the 18" gong a few times at 1000 yards, but that load was giving me about 1.6 MOA groups. I think with the right bullet/powder combo for my Shaw barrel, we'll get it down to .5 MOA. I went with an 18" barrel as I wanted something a little handier when I have a can on it. I lose a little velocity, but not much. Was still over 1200 fps at 1,000 yards.. Now I really want to get out and shoot it more. In addition to factory ammo, we also need more brass!

[@MikeSessler]

@Frank Bonazza III I really never did get it to shoot well at any range. I tried a wide variety of bullets and powder and aside from an occasional 1 MOA group, it was very disappointing. In contrast, my 6 ARC with a Shaw barrel shoots fantastic. Even my Grendel with a discount barrel from AR-15 Parts shoots quite well. The PSA 224 Valkyrie barrel had a ton of copper in it when I first cleaned it, so I think it was used, didn't shoot and returned.

[@davidpryor7366]

I built a 6mm Arc last year, love it. Best powders I have found for reloading is CFE 223 and Lever revolution. Cant wait until they start selling brass. Ive seen coming soon at Midway for a year now.

[@actionjksn]

If you're shooting within 300 yards then the Grendel is probably best. If you going much further then the ARC is probably best.

[@hendo337]

I am willing to bet that unde 600-800yrds a 6.5G will be fine, especially since ammo is so much cheaper, like half price for good 123gr AAC from PSA vs good 108gr 6ARC ammo.

[@hopefulballistics]

Great video!! Love hearing your thought process.

[@stevenwinegar9355]

I agree that the 6 ARC is the right choice. The factor you didn't mention is that it's much more inherently accurate than 224 Valk, which on paper is the closest alternative. Most guys I've seen doing AR builds are comfortably under MOA with a decent barrel and a free float handguard, whereas the Valk seems to be MOA at best, often much worse. I've built a 24" precision rifle wearing a 5-25x scope, and a 12.5" SBR wearing a 1-10x scope in 6 ARC. The SBR is supersonic out to 1000 yards and I'd feel confident engaging targets out to 600 yards. It's a do-everything gun. The precision rifle is just a monster in its niche.

[@SocialRegressive]

Thanks for adding your notes. I just finished testing some 6mm ARC handloads yesterday, and I'm looking at some that get down to .5 MOA.

[@ClydsdaleVI]

Favor 224 Valkyrie given already load and shoot 6.8spc (share mags and bolts). Flexibility to load lighter 5.56 projectiles also a bonus. With an LMT MRP upper you can literally swap barrels in the field in a few minutes.

[@millermanhal]

I love you info. Easy to understand and thoughtful conclusions, etc. I have been researching the poop out of 6.5grendel for my next build. I live in maine. Shots on deer 🦌 are rare over 200yards. The .350legend i use on my ar15 in 20inch stainless is a real deer slayer. Absolutely love it. But want to have something in ar15 platform that can reachout alittle further and with more accuracy. 6.5grendel seems great, bullet weight and from what i have seen is very deadly on deer sized game.

[@chrissidwell9455]

I thought about getting a 6 ARC when I got my 6.5 Grendel upper, but chose the Grendel. There is very limited load data for the 6 ARC as well as brass and ammunition, Hornady only. There is very little difference between the two, except at the longer ranges, the 6 ARC has a small edge. At ranges past 400 yards it is hard to make those one shot kills, so I just keep within that range. And I really try hard to get no farther than 300 for my best chances of getting a solid hit for that one shot kill. Within that 400 yard ethical limit, the Grendel hits the hardest. Plus I don't think that most manufacturers have fully embraced the 6 ARC. From what I've seen, it has had trouble with bolt lug battering, because of a tendency to show more stress to the bolt rim than the Grendel does. Some makers have chose not to chamber their AR 15 barrels in the 6 ARC because of this. I know the 6 ARC and the 6.5 Grendel have the same cartridge head size, but the Grendel doesn't seem to have the harder spike in pressure that the ARC does. Maybe because of the smaller bore diameter ? I don't know. White Oak arms decided not to chamber their barrels in the 6 ARC because of bolt lug degregedation in their testing. For some reason,, there doesn't seem to be a problem with this in the 6.5 Grendel. We have to remember that the bolt rim thickness of the smaller diameter 223 style cartridges are greater around the cartridge head area, which we have to deal with in the AR 15 platform. With the ARC and the Grendel, because of the larger diameter case head, that same bolt is somewhat thinner around the rim giving less support to the locking lugs. For some reason,, there doesn't seem to be a problem with this in the Grendel, but after longer term use it can happen with the 6 ARC. So, with all this in mind, I chose the 6.5 Grendel for my AR 15 all around cartridge.

[@kentfallin5296]

I believe White Oak Armament may have said they won’t chamber the 6 ARC because of the bolt face. But I believe it has more to do with the fact that it would compete directly against their own cartridge the 6mm WOA.

[@chrissidwell9455]

@@kentfallin5296 Hmmmm, yea that is possible. I would like to see the 6 ARC succeed. I guess we will see in time.

[@That_Guy5575]

One thing I’d like to add/ask: have you considered using the KE Arms KP-15 lower? I’m sure you already know what it is, but in case you don’t, it’s a monolithic polymer lower that’s designed from the ground up to BE polymer and is insanely strong/durable. It’s also something like 12oz lighter than a standard aluminum lower if I recall, and it also has a massive flared magwell that I find greatly helps with ease and speed of reloads. The only ‘drawbacks’ I’d consider is that it has a fixed stock and grip. I don’t miss the adjustable stock at all, I like the sturdiness of the fixed stock better and the fact that it doesn’t pluck any facial hair lol I think it’d be a perfect lower for this build for many people. In fact, I can’t help but think how basically a WWSD2020 in 6mm ARC would make for a great fit with this. The only issue I can think of is that Faxon only makes a 12.5” and a 16” lightweight profile barrel in 6mm ARC right now. Hopefully others will make lightweight and accurate ARC barrels, but also of different lengths. I hope you’ll get onto barrel lengths for the ARC in upcoming videos. Edit: I should also add that the factory WWSD2020 is just a touch under 6lbs naked, and that’s with a steel gas block and muzzle device. I made a WWSD-inspired build for my dad with an 18” barrel and it came out to be 5lbs 7oz naked. It feels like a toy without the scope on it lol Sorry for the novel, but thanks for taking the time to read it if you did. I love your content, keep it up! One of the few channels I actually look forward to notifications from.

[@SocialRegressive]

I like the idea behind that lower. It would make a lot of sense for someone to build a thin- profile rifle using it. It'd be like hauling a little 22lr carbine.

[@GunFunZS]

That's my thought too. A wwsd in 6 Arc or grendel makes sense. I want to build a 300 Bo version.

[@DB.KOOPER]

Too bad the grip sucks...I own one and its a neat idea but Karl is his infinite wisdom thinks "everyone just used an MOE grip". Well Karl you're wrong.

[@That_Guy5575]

@@DB.KOOPER He never said that everyone used the MOE grip, just that it was the most common. Remember. No matter what you choose, someone’s always gonna find some excuse to complain and not like it. The whole point of the A1 length and MOE grip is that it covers the largest portion of the bell curve of users. The more specialized the design, the more niche sector it’ll cover and thus the fewer people will like it/buy it. You can’t change the grip angle, but Resurgent Arms sells a grip enhancer sleeve so the grip isn’t as thin.

[@userJohnSmith]

At some point I'll be adding under my upper. My primary concern is stiffness. My ARC is already running

[@johnoakley5544]

yes! thank you, I found a video that relates to my location and my needs.

[@paladinhill]

I especially liked this video due to your use of the comparison charts. Most shots over 400 yds are beyond the average shooter's capability, including mine, but it is nce to know what these loads can do out to 600, I guess. Would like to see you continue this format and compare the 6.5 Grendel to the 6.8 SPC, 350 Legend, 300 BLK (super & subsonic loads) and .357 Mag, preferably all out of a 16~18" bbl.. That should make for an interesting lookvideo as well. Keep regressing!!

[@IbanezRG570T]

6ARC makes it easy out far, my girl had never shot the rifle and made a 700yd hit in 2 shots!

[@btruckno1]

Just getting into this caliber. I was really intrigued by it and read a bunch comparing the 6.5 Grendel and the ARC. I liked the wide range of bullet weights available for the 6mm, especially since I have a 243 also. Just got my rifle put together today and shot 10 rounds out of it with the Hornady black. My first 3 shot group was a hair under .75", so I'm quite pleased with that and look forward to working up some different loads for it. I looked at the Valkyrie about a year ago, but didn't like the lack of availability of brass at the time. I actually had set out to build a 6.5 Grendel, but got distracted by the ARC and eventually decided it was the way to go. So much with such a small package. I'm going to enjoy this one, a lot. Mine is a PSA lower with Magpul furniture and a Bear Creek Arsenal upper with a heavy 24" straight flute stainless barrel.

[@rossbaker5034]

Why is it that all gun writers continuously exclude the 6.8spc when discussing the AR15 based cartridges showing the viability and comparisons to the rest?

[@jeffabernathy1670]

I have taken 2 white tailed deer with the 224 Valkyrie at 448 and 453 yards, both with a single shot each. The load was a max charge of leverevolution and the 75 grain Hornady eldm. My son took a whitetail doe at 522 yards, with a single shot from the same rifle. All three deer were complete pass through with lung shots. One doe ran approx 75 yards with a great blood trail. The other two didn’t make 15 yards before expiring. My personal thought is that the max range for white tailed deer is 600 yards, in good or better conditions. I have taken several hogs at ranges from 35 to 175 yards. Bullet selection and shooter discretion is critical!! We regularly practice with our rifles out to 800 yards. I just purchased a 6mm arc, so I can’t compare the performance of the 6arc to the 224 Valkyrie. Good video, good information, and very well presented!

[@SocialRegressive]

Thank you for the field report! That's even better performance than I expected, especially with match bullets. Nice work!

[@justa3v619]

If I was starting from scratch the 6mm arc is the no brainer but I already an 18” and 12” Grendel with plenty of reloading supplies and a healthy supply of loaded ammo. I have used the 18” for deer hunting the last 6 years and really like it using 120grain federal fusion. I’ve taken white tail from 20yds out to 200yds with it and have yet to lose a deer that was hit with it. I used the 110gn controlled chaos once and while it was devastating and dropped the deer in his tracks @ 125yds there was a lot of meat damage. Deer was angled towards me bullet entered the neck and came out the left shoulder. There was a fist sized wound track and the shoulder on the exit wound was pretty much destroyed. I’ve found the 120gn fusion seems to be the best. It expands at really low velocities and so far every deer I’ve shot it has had an exit wound which I like just incase tracking is needed but so far every deer I’ve shot has not made it out of eye site from where it was hit. This last year I used my 12” Grendel for hunting and found the American eagle 90gn jhp tnt round actually works really well from the short barrel. With the lower velocity the bullet actually expands and mushrooms instead of exploding/fragmenting like most varmint rounds but my go to round for deer hunting with the 12” is actually a hand loaded 100gn nosler ballistic tip. I’ve tired the 115gn barnes vor-tx but only shooting water jugs with both the 18” and 12” and honestly even at 50yds the bullet doesn’t expand as much as I would like. I do plan on building a 6mm arc just waiting on the ammo to be more available. It really does seem like the perfect ar15 cartridge. I once thought that was the 6.5 Grendel but the 6mm arc has the velocity I’ve always wanted from the Grendel and the flexibility to shoot something lighter than a 90gn projectile.

[@SocialRegressive]

Can't complain about 6.5 Grendel! Great cartridge. Thanks for sharing your results!

[@bryantitus6634]

As a factory load shooter who doesn't reload, I have to go with the 6.5 Grendel. Which is why I own one. And it's likely my favorite deer hunting rifle currently. And behind that, there seems to be a lot of .224 Valkyrie factory loads on the shelves. Nothing like .223, .350 legend, etc but more so locally than 6 ARC and 6.5 Grendel. As a primarily medium game rifle for myself, the Grendel is superior to the Valkyrie. I'm up North where our deer run a bit larger than national average body wise. I would not hesitate to take deer with a Valkyrie with the 90gr fusion or similar but it is still a .22 cal projectile. As a handloader like yourself, with the vast array of suitable projectiles even before the heavy for caliber options at 105+gr, the 6 ARC blows all the others out of the water on overall availability of suitable projectiles across a range of applications. But the 6.5 is likely the next closest. I believe the 6.8 SPC is a very good medium game caliber as well but it lacks variety in suitable projectiles like these compared chamberings. The 6 ARC has been popping up more on the shelves locally but as you stated there truly is no variety of factory loads as of yet. 2 match loads and 1 medium game load doesn't exactly provide much variety. The Grendel and Valkyrie both offer slightly more variety.

[@rpk5250]

What platform are you using to shoot this 6.5 Grendel?

[@bryantitus6634]

@@rpk5250Howa 1500 Mini with a 22" barrel. Lovely little gun to carry. With a Leopold 1.5-4x20, it weighs 6lb 15oz. All setup. And that's NOT with he optional carbon fiber stock. I could order either a replacement stock from Howa or a custom carbon fiber stock from Oregon gun works (I believe that's who makes some), and it would weigh under 6lb fully set up.

[@rpk5250]

@@bryantitus6634 sounds nice.

[@garyedwards278]

The old 257rob fill that bill very well with bullet weights of 75-120 grn.

[@sideshowbilly3755]

Yeah, If we are talking about versatility. I'm gonna have to go with .243 Win. The lack of ammo choices and availability of ammo for 6mm ARC negates all its pluses when we start talking about versatility. Having said that,, I was considering dropping some dime on the 6mm ARC bolt action AR upper from Uintah though. I have their 308 upper and love it.

[@thews9237]

Just try one of the cheaper bolt action rifles to see if you line the round first….

[@LDR1100RS]

It was bad timing for the release of the 6ARC. Covid took the wind right out of it's sails. Two years in and Hornady is still the only manufacturer of ammo!

[@sideshowbilly3755]

@@thews9237 I'm a US Marine combat vet.... so there is no round on earth I don't like :-) lol

[@sideshowbilly3755]

And for store-bought ammo, 6mm ARC even costs more than 243.

[@sideshowbilly3755]

Side note: As of today. the .224 90-grain ammo is literally half the cost of 6mm ARC as well, yet it is running pretty darn close to 6mm ARC in performance.

[@Hudge76]

I’ve had great luck with Accurate 2520 and Lever Revolution with 80-100 gr. bullets.

[@michaelcervantez3570]

6 arc ammo and brass has finally become more available, YES!

[@DrewEdwardBacklas]

If your going to hand load anyways the 22grendel is a cool option and I’d argue better than nosler or valk. But I agree with your choice of the 6 arc. Even though I own a 6.5 grendel.

[@billhutton5153]

This 22 grendel may be a cool option but with all things considered not a good one. Yes I'm a valk fan only because of what it does. I've had it past 1000yrds. 52 noslers are explosive and 85gr is popular 243 hunting load. I can't push 85gr to 243 velocity. I also know for a fact valk is not barrel burner like 243!! With cost and scarcity of powder valk does most thing very well with 26 grains of powder or less. Shoot what you like, we are all in this together!!

[@andygray5172]

I currently own a bolt grendel that i hand load 129gr and 130gr bullets for hunting. It has killed many Antalopes out past 400yds and several deer. I have been nothing but happy with it. That being said I'm selling it to my hunting partner and plan a 6 ARC build.

[@stanleymarucha8194]

looking for a new friend was looking at the old man 243 but now 6mm arc has caught my eye

[@TheWarriorsMind]

I look at price of ammo. I bought 22 valkyrie ammo 90 gr fusion for >14.00 a box. The 224 valkyrie is flatter shooting than the arc and Grendel. It has the same path as the 6.5 creedmoor. It is subsonic to 1300 yrs. Accurate as hell. It outperforms a 22-250 (factory loads) and standard barrel twist.

[@drdes9609]

I knew the cartridge let’s see how I do on the rest. I still love the Grendel it’s so nice to order a 1000 pieces of brass from Starline and just be good for a long time. I get 10x out of my brass with Grendel.

[@kenworley9519]

Nice comparison. Thanks!

[@djauofd]

Go to firing line look up 6.5 Grendel 130 gr RDF, using Power Pro Varmit, 20" 1-8 Wilson Combat barrel he got 2,600 fps. Which I load for a 264 LBC, and that is a hot load. So if you cut it to 2,555 at sea level while the ARC carries 500 ft lbs to 750 yds, The Grendel carries 500 ft lbs to 1,000 yds. Basically, with the 130 RDF Load, it smokes everything. This is why I have no interest in 224 Valkerie or 6mm ARC. I have a 24" barrel as well and that just add insult to injury.

[@LDR1100RS]

I think for your area of operations, the 6ARC is the choice. For my AOO (coastal Oregon) with bear and elk, the 6.5 Grendel would be the one.

[@SocialRegressive]

I completely agree. You need more mass on target.

[@DB.KOOPER]

Yep. Also an Oregonian... 6mm ARC just doesn't have the oomph the Grendel does. Doesn't matter where you are though if youre building a "ranch rifle" you want more bullet mass out of the gate period end of story. The Grendel just puts more mass on target at nearly the same ranges. You're never going to shoot out to 1000m

[@mrjeffjob]

Yeah I’m 64 and I’ve seen fads come and go. It always surprises me how little thinking guys do. My first head scratcher was when I was 12. “Slow heavy round nose bullets -plow through- brush!” I thought what? So if you’re in a car, the car is going 3 mph and hits something vs doing 60 and hitting something the slow speed does all the damage? I could figure out that was bull. Then it swung the other way to belted magnums popularized by Roy Weatherby. Suddenly you needed speed of light and a 270 WM was very questionable for even small game. We’re STILL being told to shoot for shoulder bones on big game instead of lower and more to the rear of that aim point where, ya know, hearts and lungs are? Now everyone needs at least 1000 yard equipment, 30 power scopes and equipment a military sniper wouldn’t even need. And youtube certified “hunters” bragging about their 1385 yard elk kill. Of course they never mention how many they killed before actually tagging one. So I really don’t care what ballistics and energy levels are doing past 300 yards UNLESS it’s range shooting only.

[@thesmartestmanintheworld2653]

Grendel gang, rise up!

[@skennedy1217]

Like a number of others, I'm already invested in Grendel and have a lightweight 18" barrel AR build. That said, your video has planted a seed for a future project (behind 450 BM, 8.6 BLK and 257 Roberts). I would love to see some greater acceptance of it commercially. The market is so saturated with new calibers though...

[@SocialRegressive]

6.5 Grendel is a wonderful round. I wouldn't dissuade anyone from going in that direction instead.

[@johnL-xk2js]

The working class votes for 6.5. All in all. Better yet 308 combined with Ruger SFAR. Yes on paper ARC wins.

[@jjgriffin3275]

SFAR is amazing... but 6ARC is also amazing

[@miker258]

I think the 6.5 Grendel would be your best bet. I’ve seen a lot of tests where 6.5 Grendel surprisingly outperformed the .243 pretty substantially, especially in penetration, it still fits in the AR15, it’s very manageable recoil so anyone can comfortably shoot it, and it will reach out and take pretty much any game you wanna take. Check out the video of the Girl that took a big bull elk at 395 yards with a 6.5 Grendel. Pretty impressive GOD BLESS YOU ALL

[@SocialRegressive]

Extra mass has distinct advantages.

[@lylewalters909]

Look at Sanders Armory out of Florida. I just recieved my 6mm arc upper from Kelly and nothing short of daaannngggg . I picked the 24inch barrel and will be hitting the range next weekend but so far from my buddies 20 inch it's a tac driver. Can't wait to stretch mine out past 600.

[@devincarter801]

I have to go with my 6.5 grendel. I just love it way better

[@IBDobby]

Thank you for another great video, you have justified my current .224 Valkyrie build!

[@SocialRegressive]

Heck yes. 224 Valkyrie rocks.

[@DB.KOOPER]

It really doesnt... not compared to available options. Its actually a really pointless cartridge.

[@IBDobby]

@@DB.KOOPER I’d think if one was so knowledgeable to make that comment they would also be intelligent enough to elaborate on the opinion.

[@texpatriot8462]

I have the 6.5Grendel and a 6 ARC. I like the 6 ARC better. I make my brass from 6.5G brass.

[@Yelladog78]

I have hunted coyotes and deer with the 223 for years. Just ordered a 6.5 grendel, the 223 never let me down however

[@jimbograves1576]

223 never let me down either. 62gr Fed Fusion bonded is as good as anything within 250yds with good placement. magnums not needed.

[@cerneysmallengines]

I have to say, I was not really an AR guy until just recently, and now I totally get it. so I'll admit I'm a 223/556 guy now in my AR. I find the round incredibly accurate, I can easily plink a 4" plate at 100 yards, which is all I really need. I know you could probably get a 2" plate easily, but I'm just a casual shooter. I can easily swap to 22lr for small game, and I can go to 223 for my deer. I got my first deer ever this year with a 223. I heard a lot of criticism that a 223 can't drop a deer, I hit her in the nose, the round exploded in her nasal cavity and shredded her brains. she was dead before she hit the ground.

[@ColeDedhand]

Looks like a nearly perfect option for handloaders. The dearth of factory ammo really holds it back from being the breakout hit it deserves to be.

[@SocialRegressive]

C'mon, Winchester and Federal!

[@gsitzkowitz]

I find only one very big flaw in your synopsis. The ARC can only achieve those useful numbers out of a 24” barrel. When you start using more commonly used barrel lengths things change. This is why I went to the 300 Hamr. Out of a 16” barrel it’s unmatched in the under 200 yard range. I initially started out with a 24” Grendel only to find how unwieldy it became in the field. When chopping the barrel down to 16” the Hamr became more viable because in that length barrel it’s more effective. What barrel length will you be running? I assume 16”-18”, those lengths would determine just how useful any of those cartridges are.

[@SocialRegressive]

300 Hamr is a brilliant choice for close-range energy on medium game, especially in a carbine. It's true that 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC will lose a lot of velocity as barrel length shrinks, but it's not as much as most folks would expect. An 18" barrel is kinda the optimal length, since the acceleration rate decreases past that point. It depends on the ammo, but I should be in good shape. I've been estimating velocities in Gordon's Reloading Tool assuming an 18" barrel.

[@markhirstwood4190]

Jayden Quinlan of Hornady says they've tested barrels from 12" to 26" and found very little deviation in performance. Hornady says 18" is ideal for military use of the 6mm ARC.

[@jjgriffin3275]

i get 2840fps out of 16" barrel using 90 ELDX, put that in a ballistics calculator and see the performance

[@eugenejensen576]

Can’t wait to see the build, and what grain bullet works best for it.

[@SocialRegressive]

Me, too. I've filmed 3/4 of the build, and so far it's feeling solid.

[@Glove513]

What would the ideal military round out of a AR-15 platform be? If we were to select one caliber to: 1) Match or exceed the effective range of the 7.62x54r 2) Be able to come close in capability to 300 AAC in a subsonic loading, suppressed. 3) Function reliably in 14.5” barrels (or shorter) then I think the 6.5 Grendel probably would come the closest.

[@christopherallmand9407]

Don't AR10's come in a lightweight 7 pound format now? 6mm ARC might be better than 6.5mm Grendel and .224 Valkyrie, but is it better than 6mm Creedmoor?

[@kluvlarkin1]

Nice job. I’m a big fan of you’re 350 legend videos. What are you’re thoughts on the 6.5 grendel?

[@SocialRegressive]

6.5 Grendel is a nearly perfect cartridge, and the industry bears that out. The only limitation is AR magazine length.

[@donl4914]

I've been looking at another cartridge for my AR platform. The 6MM ARC will complement my 243 well. Haven't pulled the trigger yet, but thank you for the information. I was looking at the 6.5 Grendel for a time, just didn't have quite the interest in that round for some reason. This would give me a good excuse to pull out the reloading bench again...lol Thanks again. Love my .243WIN but also love the AR15 platform, just way too much fun. The 6mm ARC looks like an excellent fit.

[@williamwlotzka8721]

I don't do a lot of predator hunting myself,but from what I've read & been told,6mmARC bullets in the 70/80gr. range,work best for taking down most predators

[@markyoung7470]

Also 6mm ARC, its brass is a problem only Hornady makes brass for reloaders, and reforming brass can be done but it can be tough. As far as bullets go I would be looking at Hammer Hunters all copper monolith bullets they are now being loaded by Weatherby for their factory ammo. They can be loaded hotter than CX or Barnes TX bullets due to their patented radius bands keeping the pressure down within safe limits. The loading data on these bullets is getting better every day done by a lot of experienced reloaders who are sharing their data on Hammer time. I love the idea of a 6mm ARC and my next build will be an AR15 build in 6mm ARC . I am excited to see how your build turns out along with its performance.

[@jjgriffin3275]

starline now makes brass

[@adrianw3985]

I destroyed a Deer at 85 yards with a .223 in Oklahoma last year. Put a 55 grain PSP straight through its heart and it went down instantly. Well placed shots at reasonable ranges will kill Deer humanly.

[@fabioweldar7359]

I have a 224@6.5@350 and took deer with all of them and I hunt in a lot ranges from 40yrd to 600yrd the 224 will stop them tracks but it's hard to find Shell's and I don't reload and the 6.5 does great to

[@crashdsnowman1]

For hunting deer and hogs the 6.8 works better than the Grendel, it's 100fps faster using the same weight bullets out of the same length barrel and the bullets expand better making terminal performance better. The 6ARC may be better for targets and varmints but some guys shooting 80gr ELDs with H4895 have them smoking, they have a flatter trajectory than the ARC.

[@outboardprsnlstndup]

Starline brass now offers 6mm ARC brass!!!!

[@SocialRegressive]

I saw! Can't wait to give it a test.

[@outboardprsnlstndup]

@@SocialRegressive ill be looking forward to that! It sure made my day, and tipped my choice to doing a 6mm arc build over Grendel since i currently own neither

[@MrBoo1963]

The 6.5 Grendel WOLF 100 Grain has a powder change off and on. Very good ammo, but the powder is unbalanced. I also use the .223 69 Grain HPBT in Sierra and I do have a load that I use for that ammo as well. Both of these weapons have a 1-8 twist.

[@Hudge76]

I have a 6 ARC and 6.5 Grendel and they both have their place. While I do not recommend it, my oldest son knows a guy that killed a brown bear here in Alaska two weeks ago using his 6 ARC. My son said it took 7 shots to put the bear down, and it was not a small bear.

[@fowllab]

I think you will like the 6 ARC. So far the guys that use them for coyotes really like it here in Michigan.

[@DodgeCwby99]

From oklahoma myself.. ive been kicking around a 243 or 6 arc for a new coyote gun.. had a 243 that shot 58gr varmint x super good!!.. been coyote hunting with 223 for the past 10 years.. but been looking for something else.. now the 22 ark is out.. just so many options

[@oneheadlight8000]

224V barrels with federal factory ammo is rated around 4-6k shots

[@Ramb1t0]

With in 600 yards 6.5 grendel is better for medium game has more weight and higher cross-sectional density. Bigger bullet more penatration more mass on target, no one really hunts past 400 with a gas gun. 6 mm Arc can definitely do the job but it's questionable when it comes to penetration at range bc of the low bullet t weight. Not negating that 6 mm Arc is definitely better for hitting targets at 1000m and shooting flatter across all ranges. But hitting targets at range is very different than ethically killing an animal. When comparing both cartridges for medium size game 6.5 Grendel is definitely a step up for medium and large game.

[@johnd843]

I feel with either caliber fits could fit your needs, but you really need to handload! I shoot the Grendel with AR-Comp using a 120g Lapua Scenar-L bullets, they shoot sub moa and love'em. I haven't gone down the ARC road even though I shoot the .243 Win for whitetail deer. The Grendel shoot lights out with an $100 barrel. When the funds are available, I will get a new barrel in 6mm ARC & give it a go. Good job on your vids. BUZZ

[@paulharveu526]

With 6 ARC, I think the 87gr Vmax would be the ideal bullet for 80% of what your talking about. Pretty decent weight, BC, fair on varmints, but holds together a bit more them 58gr Vmax, so should be fine on hogs.

[@SocialRegressive]

The 87- grain vmax is my favorite 6mm bullet. It's really flexible.

[@rustynut1967]

The 6 ARC is a bit hard on brass too. If you reload on the hotter side (and I don't mean max) you'll start getting loose primer pockets after about 4 or 5 reloads. I use a medium charge of 28.6gr of LVR and don't think 50% of my brass will make it past 7 or 8 reloads. This is with Hornady brass. Lapua brass loaded on the hot side can be turned to scrap after the first firing from the case swelling at the unsupported area/head of the case.

[@ashadow315]

The ARC is great, but ballistics for it are printed from 24” barrels, which negates the use as a truck gun/ranch rifle. When you put it and the grendel is shorter carbine length barrels their performance decreases significantly. The 6.8spc , though not the best bullet ballistically, gives the best velocities in short carbine barrels. It will run 85-120 grain bullets. They will fall off ballistically at 400ish yards compared to the sleeker 6.5 and 6mms, but i’d venture that very few people can shoot that distance especially on moving coyotes.

[@ronws2007]

I like the idea of a general use rifle from woodchuck or groundhog up to whitetail deer. The woodchuckin channel guy uses a .22-250 most times with a varmint style stock and usable scope, dialing for distance and holding for wind. In Oklahoma, you can hunt with .224. In Texas, if you hunt on public land, especially with a drawn hunt, such as management hunts, you must shoot at least a .243 Win. So, here, the 6 mm ARC would be best and most legal. And before any gets all "ethical" about shooting distances, big parts of Texas and Oklahoma are high plains and desert. There is minimal coverage to hide yourself unless you own land big enough to build a permanent elevated blind. So, you are going to have shoot farther than 50 yards. The literature by the TPWD for a drawn hunt for mule deer at the Cap Rock Canyon SP (southeast of Amarillo) warns of rugged conditions and freezing temps and precipitation. And, because of the lack of cover (hint, it is high plains desert without many trees,) expect to make shots of at least 200 yards. Around these parts, trying to catch a deer by putting salt on its tail is just frustrating. (Think about it, it is like catching a bird by putting salt on the bird's tail.) That being said, I think the 6 mm ARC could also take mule deer and elk. And here is why - at the channel for deermeatfordinner, search for moose in velvet. Rob hunts for moose in Canada on the Cree Nation. At over 100 yards, he brings down a moose with his Howa 1500 in 6.5 Creedmoor with a Hornady 143 grain ELD-X. With one shot. So, if you are a good and steady shot, which you should be, 6 mm ARC will work. And the recoil is totally manageable, especially in a semi-auto platform, so you will get really good because you will not have flinch getting in your way.

[@curtiswest4272]

I wanted to build another rifle for accuracy to take along with my 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6ARC was the one cartridge that fits the bill. There is plenty of bullet selections, powder easy but im not sure how available brass is going to be. It is not available other that from loaded cartridges that i can find. For that reason i have switched gears and may go with something else and do 6arc later when brass is more available.

[@markartman3166]

I’m waiting for Ruger to release an American bolt action in 6mm ARC. I have dies and several hundred rounds of ammo, just need a rifle. I’ve even started collecting parts for an AR build but I really want a bolt gun.

[@SocialRegressive]

The best accuracy seems to come from 6arc bolt guns.

[@DuRöhre4711]

My thoughts exactly. I don't do hog erradication, so I have no need for another AR (I got plenty, I'm not anti-Semi Auto..)

[@jasoncarpenter4116]

I primarily hunt with bolt actions, and I am currently doing the same thing but with a 6mm Creedmoor.

[@SocialRegressive]

That sounds like a blast. If I weren't already so invested in .243 Win, I'd be all for 6mm Creedmoor, too. Maybe someday I'll build one. What action are you starting from?

[@jasoncarpenter4116]

@@SocialRegressive I bought a Bergara Premier barreled action and went from there.

[@zanebalsiger3471]

And now i get why you have 66.8k keep it up

[@SocialRegressive]

Thanks, Zane!

[@ReloadingQuest]

Thank! Really enjoyed this video. Can I ask what camera you use. I been using my GoPro for my channel but I need to up grade for bench work. Thanks 🙏

[@Velocity4000fps]

Working on a 6 arc build, would love to see some varmint loads for it.

[@SocialRegressive]

Soon!

[@paulharveu526]

One thing I think you should have charted or mentioned is, the 1900 fps max range. Most normal bullets need between 1800-2000 fps to expand correctly.

[@steveschott645]

I am a huge fan of the 6mm ARC. The military really should have chosen this round instead of the Fury by Sig, but that is a different issue. I personally have a two caliber AR-15 rifle. What I mean is, I have one AR-15 lower and two uppers. One upper is in 223 Wylde, and the other is in 6mm ARC. I am a handloader, so I am able to do more with these two calibers than depending on factory ammo. If people would actually learn and understand the difference between the 223 Remington and the 5.56 NATO (it's not just the pressure difference), everyone would get the 223 Wylde. The 223/ 5.56 will work for varmints and predators ( four legged and two legged), and will work on antelope and deer. The 6mm ARC is lethal out past 1,000 yds, and do everything the 223/ 5.56 can do and do it way better. The 6mm ARC can take antelope, deer, and black bear with no issue, and in a pinch can take an elk if you stay within its abilities. Great video!! The 6mm ARC beats the 6.5 Grendel and the 224 Valkyrie, along with the 243 Winchester hands down!

[@SocialRegressive]

Two perfect choices. I love love love 223 Wylde chambers. They're magic.

[@richardkut3976]

Excellent, thanks.

[@joesashiify]

I like the 350 Legend. It slaps. 👍

[@logankelch4869]

Was the 350 Legend an option or not something you were looking into. I understand the 6mm and 6.5mm bullets are fantastic for longer distances and BC but i just was sure about the 350 Legend. I guess the Range may have been the main draw back for that. I plan on building one sooner then later. My father has a Farm in West Virginia which has some longer range shots that it would be great for.

[@SocialRegressive]

I have a huge playlist on 350 legend, and I absolutely love the cartridge. If your goal is medium to larger game and you'll be close up, 350 legend is magical.

[@robertjackson1407]

Thank you 😊

[@jacktrout5807]

Lever evolution is what I'm seeing as one of the better powders for 6arc. I have a barrel and bolt carrier group. Would like to see 95gr nosler BT numbers. The 6.5 is great for ammo availability and performance is good. Would like to see a 25 grendel".... probably the sweet spot.

[@russhayes4882]

This was great !

[@GetMeThere1]

Truth is that any of these three would do a decent job on what you're looking for. IMO, if hogs at 600 yards were going to be an important issue for you I'd go with the Grendel, and I'd load it with the Barnes LRX 127 gr. bullet.

[@bradschmitt2792]

You said your talking about hunting bullets. I'll correct you l....... the ELDM bullet is not a hunting bullet, it is a match bullet made for punching paper and ringing steel. The ELDX is a hunting bullet.

[@jjgriffin3275]

watch his video on that bullet in gel, looks to be pretty good for hunting maybe

[@billgeiser7180]

Rogers sporting good in Liberty, Missouri has 6mm ARC Hornady 108 match in stock.

[@brettellis1837]

All head shots drop on the spot.