RFR #2: The Most Flexible Cartridge in the World? 6mm ARC vs 6.5 Grendel vs 224 Valkyrie

[@SocialRegressive]

Technical Notes: @jimhans1 just reminded me that 224 Valkyrie is based on 6.8 SPC (30 Remington), not .220 Russian. The brass still lasts longer than 22 Nosler, but only roughly 4 firings-worth.

[@orkboy59]

If Jim says it, I believe it.

[@alexzamora6700]

I agree! 6arc is so flexible . I’m hand loading lead free for coyotes (California resident). Can’t wait for lapua to make brass!

[@alexzamora6700]

Cfe223 is working well as also.

[@cadillacvelocity]

What would be really neat is if they create a higher pressure case like SIG is doing with the .277 SIG Furry. What are your thoughts?🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸

[@Mike-xi4zt]

An AR-15 Bolt will not hold up to those High pressures. They limit the pressure in a 6 mm ARC because the bolt has so much metal removed for that case head can't handle higher pressure. You would need a whole new gun for a higher pressure 6 mm arc

[@rosswitte]

I can't unsee this. Thank you and I'll never forgive you for making this series. Crap, this is gonna cost me.

[@64samsky]

I have a 6mm ARC and I reload. The 6.5 Grendel uses the same bolt and magazines. I still love my Grendel though.

[@buckaroobonsi555]

I am a 6.5 Grendel guy myself. Lots of bullets for the 6.5mm and a lot of powder choices. Long brass life and a deer slayer for sure! The 6mm ARC is fairly new but the 6.5 Grendel has been around a long time!

[@millermanhal]

I am about to get a 6.5grendel. 😢just hope it doesn't go the way of the dodo. Love the testimonials on deer 🦌 out to 300yards. Just seems perfect choice for ar15 where 6.5creedmoor is so popular...handloading seems economical. 6mm bullet weight makes me nervous on deer. But will keep an open mind.

[@rpk5250]

What type of platform are you shooting your Grindel out of?

[@ArkansasBadBoy]

I've watched this video a couple of times now, mainly because of my love for the 6mm ARC, but I failed to catch your comment at the 18 minute mark about the 25-06 until today and I dearly love this cartridge and will never need anything bigger. I have also discovered some incredibly good long-range potential after working up some loads with the Berger 135gr LRHT that I've always felt was possible. Good stuff.

[@dannydurham5716]

The new Howa Mini offers several of these. It is freaking awesome! Great video

[@jimhans1]

.224Valk brass is based on the 6.8SPC cartridge, NOT the .220Russian cartridge. My choice would be/is the 6.5Grendel first, then 6ARC or .22Grendel. Lots of options for the 6mm with regards to bullets, but all designed to work at .243 velocities. Grendel has been around long enough there are a lot of bullets that work great with it, in lead based or lead free options.

[@SocialRegressive]

You're right; my misspeak. It needs different mags, etc.

[@rileyneufeld7001]

Not really true most newer bullets have a relatively low velocity expansion threshold.

[@jimhans1]

@@rileyneufeld7001 not near as low as you’d think, most rifle bullets still need between 1400-1600+ fps to even start expanding let alone get decent expansion.

[@Mike-xi4zt]

243 win velocity from 6mm arc is not possible no matter what Hornady says. You will destroy the bolt of an AR 15 and blow primers trying to do it. The 6 mm ppc is basically the same cartridge and it hasn't been able to achieve 243 velocities for the last 4 decades why do you think a 6 mm Arc/ 6mm ppc on a machined out AR-15 Bolt is going to do it today?

[@jimhans1]

@@Mike-xi4zt who said ARC is going to get to .243 velocities?

[@bigbasscatcher86]

Well boo I was hoping for the grendel.....oh well it's going to be fun series watch. Looking forward to the build and load development!

[@billstevens5277]

Eagle Eye Shooting has also worked a lot with 6 ARC, both in AR and bolt guns.

[@SocialRegressive]

Kenny is beast. I'm floored by the performance he gets out of 6 arc.

[@nataliedeyton6829]

I deer hunt with 6.5 Grendel 20 inch faxon barrel shooting hornady 123 eld-m. It has dropped 2 200lb bucks in the last 2 years (close shots tho). It also holds under 1 moa out to 300 (all I have shot). It’s light ,accurate, and hits intended target hard with lots of tissues damage. Wolf 6.5 Grendel sucks for accuracy!!! 3-4 moa. You can also get a 130gr federal GMM but all my 6.5’s shoot the 123 gr the most accurate tho

[@SocialRegressive]

No replacement for displacement. Bigger bullets just have their own magic. How often do you get exit wounds with 6.5 Grendel?

[@58harwood]

Every time I use a Barnes bullet! 😭

[@preacherbiggin]

@@SocialRegressive no issues on this end with exit wounds with my grendels. (16",18", & 24" barrels) we use to use 120gr nosler BT's but have switched over to the 120 Speer gold dot and are loving them. Shot a buck last season quartering toward me and actually captured the bullet on the opposite side under the hide of the ham. Bullet expanded perfect and weighed 117 grains. Text book performance. Deer took a couple steps and stumbled, finished right there. Can't say enough good things about the little round.

[@justa3v619]

@@preacherbiggin that’s the same bullet I use. Well I’m pretty sure it is the same bullet that federal uses in their 120gn fusion round. They expand at really low velocities I’ve shot water jugs @ 350yds and the recovered bullets all expanded over .5 some even over .6 I’ve always had a good exit wound and really prefer them over the hornady sst because of that. I first started with the 123gn sst but the first two deer I shot with it neither had an exit wound. Granted neither deer made it more than 20yds from where it was shot had I needed a blood trail there wouldn’t have been much. I’m using an 18” faxon match series barrel and the accuracy is insane even with factory ammo. I’ve shot 2” groups at 350yds and with my 100gn nosler bt I’ve shot 3 round groups at 100yds you’d swear were only one shot from a .30 caliber rifle lol. I’ve just always wished I could get another 150-200fps more muzzle velocity out of the Grendel and it would no doubt be the hands down winner. I like what I see from the 6mm arc but until ammo is more available I don’t see that much of an improvement over the Grendel to make the swap. 6.5 Grendel ftw. By the way I also have a 12” Odin works barreled Grendel that I’m really liking especially inside 300yds although it will get out much farther than that. Gun only weighs 6.4lbs with a loaded mag sling and leupold mark ar 1.5-4x scope. It’s really hard to beat especially if you will be carrying the rifle for a while.

[@bradschmitt2792]

Why would you hunt with a match bullet? You should be shooting hunting bullets. The ELDX, SST, VMAX or soft points. ELDM are target bullets that don't expand like a hunting bullet.

[@OlTrailDog]

I went with a 6mm ARC build, but I'm quite surprised by the 224 Valkyrie values. Ammo is available in the stores for more than I want to pay. Hence, reloading became the alternative. Recoil is very minimal.

[@jakedawgwhite88]

My money load for varmints in the grendel is based on the 107 matchking. Surprising bc for weight and will allow speeding up. Would I shoot this load at a deer no, hogs at closer range yes. I’ve got hits at a grand with it on a 1 mil target but holding on. Have held on a one minute sized target at 500. My plans are to run the 123 sst for its bullet construction at moderate speeds. I wish 6mm arc were around when I build my grendel, but the grendel is a great cartridge and seems to have the right qualities on impact at practical ranges for whitetails and hogs.

[@billhutton5153]

I'm on my 3rd valkyrie. 1st one had 6k rounds thru it and was still 1/2 MOA!! I hand load and may I suggest a 85 grain Valkyrie at 2950 fps. I push it with 2000mr. Still carries 500ft lbs at 700yrds!! Heard others post valk is pointless!! BS, zero at 200yrds and aim basically dead on from 100-350 curds. Pointless? I think not!! I can push a 52gr up to 95gr with my 6.5 twist!

[@wesleym7927]

My Valkyrie has a 1 6.5 barrel also and does like the fusion 90 grainers broke my heart as I deer hunt alot and qanted to try it. Not many hunting load for the caliber.😔 I need to try some more loads as I don't reload.

[@wesleym7927]

Same here 75 grainers are spotty and 90 Grain fusions are like 3 to 5 inch groups at 100 yards really sucks I was hoping my barrel would like the heavier stuff 🤷‍♂️ Gotta experiment with more rounds or I'm gonna get mad a put a 6.5 grendel barrel and bolt in lol.

[@wesleym7927]

@pcbe Man I hate that seems this Valkyrie is all over the place. Makes me wish I'd gotten a 6.5 grendel or 6 arc 🤷‍♂️

[@tomforeman4976]

I shoot a 224. 1 in 7 22inch barrel in AR 15 base. Just went to shooting school with 1270 yard option with 100 increments down to 100. Corona zero at 100 yards built bullet rack for 1200 yards dialed numbers and done a direct hit verified at all yardage. Then completed 180 shots in 1 and a half days in class. If I missed any of the shot we diagnosed why I missed and it was never the gun. To fast of twist in longer shot may influence bullet windage.

[@That_Guy5575]

One thing I’d like to add/ask: have you considered using the KE Arms KP-15 lower? I’m sure you already know what it is, but in case you don’t, it’s a monolithic polymer lower that’s designed from the ground up to BE polymer and is insanely strong/durable. It’s also something like 12oz lighter than a standard aluminum lower if I recall, and it also has a massive flared magwell that I find greatly helps with ease and speed of reloads. The only ‘drawbacks’ I’d consider is that it has a fixed stock and grip. I don’t miss the adjustable stock at all, I like the sturdiness of the fixed stock better and the fact that it doesn’t pluck any facial hair lol I think it’d be a perfect lower for this build for many people. In fact, I can’t help but think how basically a WWSD2020 in 6mm ARC would make for a great fit with this. The only issue I can think of is that Faxon only makes a 12.5” and a 16” lightweight profile barrel in 6mm ARC right now. Hopefully others will make lightweight and accurate ARC barrels, but also of different lengths. I hope you’ll get onto barrel lengths for the ARC in upcoming videos. Edit: I should also add that the factory WWSD2020 is just a touch under 6lbs naked, and that’s with a steel gas block and muzzle device. I made a WWSD-inspired build for my dad with an 18” barrel and it came out to be 5lbs 7oz naked. It feels like a toy without the scope on it lol Sorry for the novel, but thanks for taking the time to read it if you did. I love your content, keep it up! One of the few channels I actually look forward to notifications from.

[@SocialRegressive]

I like the idea behind that lower. It would make a lot of sense for someone to build a thin- profile rifle using it. It'd be like hauling a little 22lr carbine.

[@GunFunZS]

That's my thought too. A wwsd in 6 Arc or grendel makes sense. I want to build a 300 Bo version.

[@DB.KOOPER]

Too bad the grip sucks...I own one and its a neat idea but Karl is his infinite wisdom thinks "everyone just used an MOE grip". Well Karl you're wrong.

[@That_Guy5575]

@@DB.KOOPER He never said that everyone used the MOE grip, just that it was the most common. Remember. No matter what you choose, someone’s always gonna find some excuse to complain and not like it. The whole point of the A1 length and MOE grip is that it covers the largest portion of the bell curve of users. The more specialized the design, the more niche sector it’ll cover and thus the fewer people will like it/buy it. You can’t change the grip angle, but Resurgent Arms sells a grip enhancer sleeve so the grip isn’t as thin.

[@tompanek7511]

Absolutely Get on it!!! Need more companies putting these out.

[@jerryconrad2737]

Good news HSM now Loads a 75 grain VMax for 6 ARC. And Hornady also now loads a 80 grain varmint round for 6 ARC. I have a 20" gas gun in 6 ARC and love it. My favorite gun to shoot.

[@rufflynm]

Just got a 6MM ARC adjust love it. I am really looking forward to your reloading series. Watching your series on 350 Legend has made me an AR fan.

[@davidpryor7366]

I built a 6mm Arc last year, love it. Best powders I have found for reloading is CFE 223 and Lever revolution. Cant wait until they start selling brass. Ive seen coming soon at Midway for a year now.

[@000one]

Advantage 1. IF you are only talking AR-15 format, The best point is, like me, I can shoot the “best" as far as price and availability, the 5.56, BUT I can switch to my favorite AR caliber 6.5 Grendel. So the advantage is not the caliber, but the format by swithcing out my upper. All of these calibers are great, but with an AR15, I can shoot all of them with a few uppers, and one lower. I only own one semi non AR rifle. A Marlin Mach2 .17 for rabbits, squeels and fowl. I killed a small turkey with it because 100 yard head shots are very possible with the Mach2. So 2 formats and a 20 guage with a few handguns are all i will ever need in the lower 48.

[@millermanhal]

I love you info. Easy to understand and thoughtful conclusions, etc. I have been researching the poop out of 6.5grendel for my next build. I live in maine. Shots on deer 🦌 are rare over 200yards. The .350legend i use on my ar15 in 20inch stainless is a real deer slayer. Absolutely love it. But want to have something in ar15 platform that can reachout alittle further and with more accuracy. 6.5grendel seems great, bullet weight and from what i have seen is very deadly on deer sized game.

[@ClydsdaleVI]

Favor 224 Valkyrie given already load and shoot 6.8spc (share mags and bolts). Flexibility to load lighter 5.56 projectiles also a bonus. With an LMT MRP upper you can literally swap barrels in the field in a few minutes.

[@chrissidwell9455]

I thought about getting a 6 ARC when I got my 6.5 Grendel upper, but chose the Grendel. There is very limited load data for the 6 ARC as well as brass and ammunition, Hornady only. There is very little difference between the two, except at the longer ranges, the 6 ARC has a small edge. At ranges past 400 yards it is hard to make those one shot kills, so I just keep within that range. And I really try hard to get no farther than 300 for my best chances of getting a solid hit for that one shot kill. Within that 400 yard ethical limit, the Grendel hits the hardest. Plus I don't think that most manufacturers have fully embraced the 6 ARC. From what I've seen, it has had trouble with bolt lug battering, because of a tendency to show more stress to the bolt rim than the Grendel does. Some makers have chose not to chamber their AR 15 barrels in the 6 ARC because of this. I know the 6 ARC and the 6.5 Grendel have the same cartridge head size, but the Grendel doesn't seem to have the harder spike in pressure that the ARC does. Maybe because of the smaller bore diameter ? I don't know. White Oak arms decided not to chamber their barrels in the 6 ARC because of bolt lug degregedation in their testing. For some reason,, there doesn't seem to be a problem with this in the 6.5 Grendel. We have to remember that the bolt rim thickness of the smaller diameter 223 style cartridges are greater around the cartridge head area, which we have to deal with in the AR 15 platform. With the ARC and the Grendel, because of the larger diameter case head, that same bolt is somewhat thinner around the rim giving less support to the locking lugs. For some reason,, there doesn't seem to be a problem with this in the Grendel, but after longer term use it can happen with the 6 ARC. So, with all this in mind, I chose the 6.5 Grendel for my AR 15 all around cartridge.

[@kentfallin5296]

I believe White Oak Armament may have said they won’t chamber the 6 ARC because of the bolt face. But I believe it has more to do with the fact that it would compete directly against their own cartridge the 6mm WOA.

[@chrissidwell9455]

@@kentfallin5296 Hmmmm, yea that is possible. I would like to see the 6 ARC succeed. I guess we will see in time.

[@MikeSessler]

Great comparison, Kyle. I tried 224 Valkyrie when it came out. Never good get any decent accuracy out of it, though I think it was a bad barrel (cheap PSA). Bought a 6.5 Grendel barrel to replace the Valkyrie in March of 2020 right before the world went mad and we also moved to a homestead. Worked up a couple good loads for it, but haven't shot it extensively. Did a 6 mm ARC upper build this winter and am pretty impressed thus far. Initial handloads are showing good promise; need to get back on the range to test the next iteration. I did take it out to empty some factory brass a few weeks back. Hitting at 600 yards was pretty easy with the 108 ELD-M. Hit the 18" gong a few times at 1000 yards, but that load was giving me about 1.6 MOA groups. I think with the right bullet/powder combo for my Shaw barrel, we'll get it down to .5 MOA. I went with an 18" barrel as I wanted something a little handier when I have a can on it. I lose a little velocity, but not much. Was still over 1200 fps at 1,000 yards.. Now I really want to get out and shoot it more. In addition to factory ammo, we also need more brass!

[@MikeSessler]

@Frank Bonazza III I really never did get it to shoot well at any range. I tried a wide variety of bullets and powder and aside from an occasional 1 MOA group, it was very disappointing. In contrast, my 6 ARC with a Shaw barrel shoots fantastic. Even my Grendel with a discount barrel from AR-15 Parts shoots quite well. The PSA 224 Valkyrie barrel had a ton of copper in it when I first cleaned it, so I think it was used, didn't shoot and returned.

[@JAKesler]

There are so many new cartridges that really peak interest and this is one is high on that list

[@stevenwinegar9355]

I agree that the 6 ARC is the right choice. The factor you didn't mention is that it's much more inherently accurate than 224 Valk, which on paper is the closest alternative. Most guys I've seen doing AR builds are comfortably under MOA with a decent barrel and a free float handguard, whereas the Valk seems to be MOA at best, often much worse. I've built a 24" precision rifle wearing a 5-25x scope, and a 12.5" SBR wearing a 1-10x scope in 6 ARC. The SBR is supersonic out to 1000 yards and I'd feel confident engaging targets out to 600 yards. It's a do-everything gun. The precision rifle is just a monster in its niche.

[@SocialRegressive]

Thanks for adding your notes. I just finished testing some 6mm ARC handloads yesterday, and I'm looking at some that get down to .5 MOA.

[@Hudge76]

I’ve had great luck with Accurate 2520 and Lever Revolution with 80-100 gr. bullets.

[@REDs_Reapers]

Wish the .277WLV had made the list- lol. Basically a poor mans' 6.8SPC. I've had amazing results on yotes out to 365yds!! Sub-MOA from a 16" barrel @ 2700fps with 90gr Speer TnT varmint bullets!! Uses all standard AR-15 components.

[@btruckno1]

Just getting into this caliber. I was really intrigued by it and read a bunch comparing the 6.5 Grendel and the ARC. I liked the wide range of bullet weights available for the 6mm, especially since I have a 243 also. Just got my rifle put together today and shot 10 rounds out of it with the Hornady black. My first 3 shot group was a hair under .75", so I'm quite pleased with that and look forward to working up some different loads for it. I looked at the Valkyrie about a year ago, but didn't like the lack of availability of brass at the time. I actually had set out to build a 6.5 Grendel, but got distracted by the ARC and eventually decided it was the way to go. So much with such a small package. I'm going to enjoy this one, a lot. Mine is a PSA lower with Magpul furniture and a Bear Creek Arsenal upper with a heavy 24" straight flute stainless barrel.

[@DrewEdwardBacklas]

If your going to hand load anyways the 22grendel is a cool option and I’d argue better than nosler or valk. But I agree with your choice of the 6 arc. Even though I own a 6.5 grendel.

[@billhutton5153]

This 22 grendel may be a cool option but with all things considered not a good one. Yes I'm a valk fan only because of what it does. I've had it past 1000yrds. 52 noslers are explosive and 85gr is popular 243 hunting load. I can't push 85gr to 243 velocity. I also know for a fact valk is not barrel burner like 243!! With cost and scarcity of powder valk does most thing very well with 26 grains of powder or less. Shoot what you like, we are all in this together!!

[@hopefulballistics]

Great video!! Love hearing your thought process.

[@pablopenasco4254]

Arc looks great. I’m already into Grendel for many years so not about to buy Arc yet. If market proves to support it more then I will get one.

[@LDR1100RS]

I think for your area of operations, the 6ARC is the choice. For my AOO (coastal Oregon) with bear and elk, the 6.5 Grendel would be the one.

[@SocialRegressive]

I completely agree. You need more mass on target.

[@DB.KOOPER]

Yep. Also an Oregonian... 6mm ARC just doesn't have the oomph the Grendel does. Doesn't matter where you are though if youre building a "ranch rifle" you want more bullet mass out of the gate period end of story. The Grendel just puts more mass on target at nearly the same ranges. You're never going to shoot out to 1000m

[@mrjeffjob]

Yeah I’m 64 and I’ve seen fads come and go. It always surprises me how little thinking guys do. My first head scratcher was when I was 12. “Slow heavy round nose bullets -plow through- brush!” I thought what? So if you’re in a car, the car is going 3 mph and hits something vs doing 60 and hitting something the slow speed does all the damage? I could figure out that was bull. Then it swung the other way to belted magnums popularized by Roy Weatherby. Suddenly you needed speed of light and a 270 WM was very questionable for even small game. We’re STILL being told to shoot for shoulder bones on big game instead of lower and more to the rear of that aim point where, ya know, hearts and lungs are? Now everyone needs at least 1000 yard equipment, 30 power scopes and equipment a military sniper wouldn’t even need. And youtube certified “hunters” bragging about their 1385 yard elk kill. Of course they never mention how many they killed before actually tagging one. So I really don’t care what ballistics and energy levels are doing past 300 yards UNLESS it’s range shooting only.

[@rossbaker5034]

Why is it that all gun writers continuously exclude the 6.8spc when discussing the AR15 based cartridges showing the viability and comparisons to the rest?

[@sideshowbilly3755]

Yeah, If we are talking about versatility. I'm gonna have to go with .243 Win. The lack of ammo choices and availability of ammo for 6mm ARC negates all its pluses when we start talking about versatility. Having said that,, I was considering dropping some dime on the 6mm ARC bolt action AR upper from Uintah though. I have their 308 upper and love it.

[@thews9237]

Just try one of the cheaper bolt action rifles to see if you line the round first….

[@LDR1100RS]

It was bad timing for the release of the 6ARC. Covid took the wind right out of it's sails. Two years in and Hornady is still the only manufacturer of ammo!

[@sideshowbilly3755]

@@thews9237 I'm a US Marine combat vet.... so there is no round on earth I don't like :-) lol

[@sideshowbilly3755]

And for store-bought ammo, 6mm ARC even costs more than 243.

[@sideshowbilly3755]

Side note: As of today. the .224 90-grain ammo is literally half the cost of 6mm ARC as well, yet it is running pretty darn close to 6mm ARC in performance.

[@drdes9609]

I knew the cartridge let’s see how I do on the rest. I still love the Grendel it’s so nice to order a 1000 pieces of brass from Starline and just be good for a long time. I get 10x out of my brass with Grendel.

[@fabioweldar7359]

I have a 224@6.5@350 and took deer with all of them and I hunt in a lot ranges from 40yrd to 600yrd the 224 will stop them tracks but it's hard to find Shell's and I don't reload and the 6.5 does great to

[@justa3v619]

If I was starting from scratch the 6mm arc is the no brainer but I already an 18” and 12” Grendel with plenty of reloading supplies and a healthy supply of loaded ammo. I have used the 18” for deer hunting the last 6 years and really like it using 120grain federal fusion. I’ve taken white tail from 20yds out to 200yds with it and have yet to lose a deer that was hit with it. I used the 110gn controlled chaos once and while it was devastating and dropped the deer in his tracks @ 125yds there was a lot of meat damage. Deer was angled towards me bullet entered the neck and came out the left shoulder. There was a fist sized wound track and the shoulder on the exit wound was pretty much destroyed. I’ve found the 120gn fusion seems to be the best. It expands at really low velocities and so far every deer I’ve shot it has had an exit wound which I like just incase tracking is needed but so far every deer I’ve shot has not made it out of eye site from where it was hit. This last year I used my 12” Grendel for hunting and found the American eagle 90gn jhp tnt round actually works really well from the short barrel. With the lower velocity the bullet actually expands and mushrooms instead of exploding/fragmenting like most varmint rounds but my go to round for deer hunting with the 12” is actually a hand loaded 100gn nosler ballistic tip. I’ve tired the 115gn barnes vor-tx but only shooting water jugs with both the 18” and 12” and honestly even at 50yds the bullet doesn’t expand as much as I would like. I do plan on building a 6mm arc just waiting on the ammo to be more available. It really does seem like the perfect ar15 cartridge. I once thought that was the 6.5 Grendel but the 6mm arc has the velocity I’ve always wanted from the Grendel and the flexibility to shoot something lighter than a 90gn projectile.

[@SocialRegressive]

Can't complain about 6.5 Grendel! Great cartridge. Thanks for sharing your results!

[@christopherallmand9407]

Don't AR10's come in a lightweight 7 pound format now? 6mm ARC might be better than 6.5mm Grendel and .224 Valkyrie, but is it better than 6mm Creedmoor?

[@paladinhill]

I especially liked this video due to your use of the comparison charts. Most shots over 400 yds are beyond the average shooter's capability, including mine, but it is nce to know what these loads can do out to 600, I guess. Would like to see you continue this format and compare the 6.5 Grendel to the 6.8 SPC, 350 Legend, 300 BLK (super & subsonic loads) and .357 Mag, preferably all out of a 16~18" bbl.. That should make for an interesting lookvideo as well. Keep regressing!!

[@IbanezRG570T]

6ARC makes it easy out far, my girl had never shot the rifle and made a 700yd hit in 2 shots!

[@Glove513]

What would the ideal military round out of a AR-15 platform be? If we were to select one caliber to: 1) Match or exceed the effective range of the 7.62x54r 2) Be able to come close in capability to 300 AAC in a subsonic loading, suppressed. 3) Function reliably in 14.5” barrels (or shorter) then I think the 6.5 Grendel probably would come the closest.

[@Yelladog78]

I have hunted coyotes and deer with the 223 for years. Just ordered a 6.5 grendel, the 223 never let me down however

[@jimbograves1576]

223 never let me down either. 62gr Fed Fusion bonded is as good as anything within 250yds with good placement. magnums not needed.

[@skennedy1217]

Like a number of others, I'm already invested in Grendel and have a lightweight 18" barrel AR build. That said, your video has planted a seed for a future project (behind 450 BM, 8.6 BLK and 257 Roberts). I would love to see some greater acceptance of it commercially. The market is so saturated with new calibers though...

[@SocialRegressive]

6.5 Grendel is a wonderful round. I wouldn't dissuade anyone from going in that direction instead.

[@jeffabernathy1670]

I have taken 2 white tailed deer with the 224 Valkyrie at 448 and 453 yards, both with a single shot each. The load was a max charge of leverevolution and the 75 grain Hornady eldm. My son took a whitetail doe at 522 yards, with a single shot from the same rifle. All three deer were complete pass through with lung shots. One doe ran approx 75 yards with a great blood trail. The other two didn’t make 15 yards before expiring. My personal thought is that the max range for white tailed deer is 600 yards, in good or better conditions. I have taken several hogs at ranges from 35 to 175 yards. Bullet selection and shooter discretion is critical!! We regularly practice with our rifles out to 800 yards. I just purchased a 6mm arc, so I can’t compare the performance of the 6arc to the 224 Valkyrie. Good video, good information, and very well presented!

[@SocialRegressive]

Thank you for the field report! That's even better performance than I expected, especially with match bullets. Nice work!

[@johnoakley5544]

yes! thank you, I found a video that relates to my location and my needs.

[@garyedwards278]

The old 257rob fill that bill very well with bullet weights of 75-120 grn.

[@lylewalters909]

Look at Sanders Armory out of Florida. I just recieved my 6mm arc upper from Kelly and nothing short of daaannngggg . I picked the 24inch barrel and will be hitting the range next weekend but so far from my buddies 20 inch it's a tac driver. Can't wait to stretch mine out past 600.

[@markartman3166]

I’m waiting for Ruger to release an American bolt action in 6mm ARC. I have dies and several hundred rounds of ammo, just need a rifle. I’ve even started collecting parts for an AR build but I really want a bolt gun.

[@SocialRegressive]

The best accuracy seems to come from 6arc bolt guns.

[@DuRöhre4711]

My thoughts exactly. I don't do hog erradication, so I have no need for another AR (I got plenty, I'm not anti-Semi Auto..)

[@Coyotehunter243]

From oklahoma myself.. ive been kicking around a 243 or 6 arc for a new coyote gun.. had a 243 that shot 58gr varmint x super good!!.. been coyote hunting with 223 for the past 10 years.. but been looking for something else.. now the 22 ark is out.. just so many options

[@kluvlarkin1]

Nice job. I’m a big fan of you’re 350 legend videos. What are you’re thoughts on the 6.5 grendel?

[@SocialRegressive]

6.5 Grendel is a nearly perfect cartridge, and the industry bears that out. The only limitation is AR magazine length.

[@kenworley9519]

Nice comparison. Thanks!

[@curtiswest4272]

I wanted to build another rifle for accuracy to take along with my 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6ARC was the one cartridge that fits the bill. There is plenty of bullet selections, powder easy but im not sure how available brass is going to be. It is not available other that from loaded cartridges that i can find. For that reason i have switched gears and may go with something else and do 6arc later when brass is more available.

[@eugenejensen576]

Can’t wait to see the build, and what grain bullet works best for it.

[@SocialRegressive]

Me, too. I've filmed 3/4 of the build, and so far it's feeling solid.

[@Velocity4000fps]

Working on a 6 arc build, would love to see some varmint loads for it.

[@SocialRegressive]

Soon!

[@jasoncarpenter4116]

I primarily hunt with bolt actions, and I am currently doing the same thing but with a 6mm Creedmoor.

[@SocialRegressive]

That sounds like a blast. If I weren't already so invested in .243 Win, I'd be all for 6mm Creedmoor, too. Maybe someday I'll build one. What action are you starting from?

[@jasoncarpenter4116]

@@SocialRegressive I bought a Bergara Premier barreled action and went from there.

[@gsitzkowitz]

I find only one very big flaw in your synopsis. The ARC can only achieve those useful numbers out of a 24” barrel. When you start using more commonly used barrel lengths things change. This is why I went to the 300 Hamr. Out of a 16” barrel it’s unmatched in the under 200 yard range. I initially started out with a 24” Grendel only to find how unwieldy it became in the field. When chopping the barrel down to 16” the Hamr became more viable because in that length barrel it’s more effective. What barrel length will you be running? I assume 16”-18”, those lengths would determine just how useful any of those cartridges are.

[@SocialRegressive]

300 Hamr is a brilliant choice for close-range energy on medium game, especially in a carbine. It's true that 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC will lose a lot of velocity as barrel length shrinks, but it's not as much as most folks would expect. An 18" barrel is kinda the optimal length, since the acceleration rate decreases past that point. It depends on the ammo, but I should be in good shape. I've been estimating velocities in Gordon's Reloading Tool assuming an 18" barrel.

[@markhirstwood4190]

Jayden Quinlan of Hornady says they've tested barrels from 12" to 26" and found very little deviation in performance. Hornady says 18" is ideal for military use of the 6mm ARC.

[@jjgriffin3275]

i get 2840fps out of 16" barrel using 90 ELDX, put that in a ballistics calculator and see the performance

[@billgeiser7180]

Rogers sporting good in Liberty, Missouri has 6mm ARC Hornady 108 match in stock.

[@MrBoo1963]

The 6.5 Grendel WOLF 100 Grain has a powder change off and on. Very good ammo, but the powder is unbalanced. I also use the .223 69 Grain HPBT in Sierra and I do have a load that I use for that ammo as well. Both of these weapons have a 1-8 twist.

[@logankelch4869]

Was the 350 Legend an option or not something you were looking into. I understand the 6mm and 6.5mm bullets are fantastic for longer distances and BC but i just was sure about the 350 Legend. I guess the Range may have been the main draw back for that. I plan on building one sooner then later. My father has a Farm in West Virginia which has some longer range shots that it would be great for.

[@SocialRegressive]

I have a huge playlist on 350 legend, and I absolutely love the cartridge. If your goal is medium to larger game and you'll be close up, 350 legend is magical.

[@KretinD]

Probably gonna need a 22" barrel to get 2700 fps with the 108gr eldm. Very interested in seeing how this project progresses. I have a 16" 6mm arc. Don't have a Chrono but I estimate about 2525 at the muzzle with 108s.

[@G5Hohn]

Even at that barrel length you are way over pressure in a gas gun. Hornady shows 105 in an 18” tube topping 2550, so figure 2600 maybe in 22” with 108. Still useful imo

[@DrewEdwardBacklas]

Cfe223 and leverevolution powder.

[@rustynut1967]

@@G5Hohn With factory 108s I get an average of 2703fps out of my 22" barrel. I don't reload them that hot though.

[@stanleymarucha8194]

looking for a new friend was looking at the old man 243 but now 6mm arc has caught my eye

[@Boosted98gsx]

Okay, but what about sleeker pills for grendel instead of the heaviest option? What about a 110gr or even a 95gr?

[@SocialRegressive]

6.5 Grendel is a killer round, and I wouldn't try to convince anyone to switch over to 6mm ARC. The two are really darn similar, and can handle a lot of the same jobs. I'll bet you're right that the lighter bullets would have a wonderful close-range trajectory.

[@bryantitus6634]

As a factory load shooter who doesn't reload, I have to go with the 6.5 Grendel. Which is why I own one. And it's likely my favorite deer hunting rifle currently. And behind that, there seems to be a lot of .224 Valkyrie factory loads on the shelves. Nothing like .223, .350 legend, etc but more so locally than 6 ARC and 6.5 Grendel. As a primarily medium game rifle for myself, the Grendel is superior to the Valkyrie. I'm up North where our deer run a bit larger than national average body wise. I would not hesitate to take deer with a Valkyrie with the 90gr fusion or similar but it is still a .22 cal projectile. As a handloader like yourself, with the vast array of suitable projectiles even before the heavy for caliber options at 105+gr, the 6 ARC blows all the others out of the water on overall availability of suitable projectiles across a range of applications. But the 6.5 is likely the next closest. I believe the 6.8 SPC is a very good medium game caliber as well but it lacks variety in suitable projectiles like these compared chamberings. The 6 ARC has been popping up more on the shelves locally but as you stated there truly is no variety of factory loads as of yet. 2 match loads and 1 medium game load doesn't exactly provide much variety. The Grendel and Valkyrie both offer slightly more variety.

[@rpk5250]

What platform are you using to shoot this 6.5 Grendel?

[@bryantitus6634]

@@rpk5250Howa 1500 Mini with a 22" barrel. Lovely little gun to carry. With a Leopold 1.5-4x20, it weighs 6lb 15oz. All setup. And that's NOT with he optional carbon fiber stock. I could order either a replacement stock from Howa or a custom carbon fiber stock from Oregon gun works (I believe that's who makes some), and it would weigh under 6lb fully set up.

[@rpk5250]

@@bryantitus6634 sounds nice.

[@ColeDedhand]

Looks like a nearly perfect option for handloaders. The dearth of factory ammo really holds it back from being the breakout hit it deserves to be.

[@SocialRegressive]

C'mon, Winchester and Federal!

[@rustynut1967]

The 6 ARC is a bit hard on brass too. If you reload on the hotter side (and I don't mean max) you'll start getting loose primer pockets after about 4 or 5 reloads. I use a medium charge of 28.6gr of LVR and don't think 50% of my brass will make it past 7 or 8 reloads. This is with Hornady brass. Lapua brass loaded on the hot side can be turned to scrap after the first firing from the case swelling at the unsupported area/head of the case.

[@ReloadingQuest]

Thank! Really enjoyed this video. Can I ask what camera you use. I been using my GoPro for my channel but I need to up grade for bench work. Thanks 🙏

[@AlexYefimov-gd2rg]

Rebuilt my 6.5 Grendel into a 6 ARC with only a barrel swap, and I have not looked back. Per the video, I do have to reload, and for reloading there is only Hornady brass available for now. Hoping that Starline Brass starts producing 6m ARC brass soon.

[@SocialRegressive]

I hope so, too.

[@jjgriffin3275]

starline now makes brass

[@heathgerig6849]

The wolf ammo won’t shoot in my diamondback Grendel. Primers are set pretty deep

[@SocialRegressive]

I hadn't considered that issue. Makes sense, though. My father in law's 7.62x39 AR had a tough time with those primers.

[@-Savage-]

Why not use the 123g sst for the grendel. It's BC is around .5. May not effect muzzle velocity, but it should hold its velocity out to distance. Also not drop as much.

[@SocialRegressive]

That would be my favorite 6.5 Grendel bullet.

[@markyoung7470]

Also 6mm ARC, its brass is a problem only Hornady makes brass for reloaders, and reforming brass can be done but it can be tough. As far as bullets go I would be looking at Hammer Hunters all copper monolith bullets they are now being loaded by Weatherby for their factory ammo. They can be loaded hotter than CX or Barnes TX bullets due to their patented radius bands keeping the pressure down within safe limits. The loading data on these bullets is getting better every day done by a lot of experienced reloaders who are sharing their data on Hammer time. I love the idea of a 6mm ARC and my next build will be an AR15 build in 6mm ARC . I am excited to see how your build turns out along with its performance.

[@jjgriffin3275]

starline now makes brass

[@djauofd]

Go to firing line look up 6.5 Grendel 130 gr RDF, using Power Pro Varmit, 20" 1-8 Wilson Combat barrel he got 2,600 fps. Which I load for a 264 LBC, and that is a hot load. So if you cut it to 2,555 at sea level while the ARC carries 500 ft lbs to 750 yds, The Grendel carries 500 ft lbs to 1,000 yds. Basically, with the 130 RDF Load, it smokes everything. This is why I have no interest in 224 Valkerie or 6mm ARC. I have a 24" barrel as well and that just add insult to injury.

[@fowllab]

I think you will like the 6 ARC. So far the guys that use them for coyotes really like it here in Michigan.

[@lagunaman5810]

What about the 22-250? Fine for about anything in the lower 48.

[@jacktrout5807]

Lever evolution is what I'm seeing as one of the better powders for 6arc. I have a barrel and bolt carrier group. Would like to see 95gr nosler BT numbers. The 6.5 is great for ammo availability and performance is good. Would like to see a 25 grendel".... probably the sweet spot.

[@Shnick]

7:36 the 223 REM is fine if you’re hunting 80 lb white tails, that’s as big as they get in Oklahoma…

[@SocialRegressive]

😂😭

[@bigal4334]

I gave up on 224 Valkyrie. I was losing 20% of my brass every firing due to blown primer pockets and very finicky to tune.

[@actionjksn]

If you're shooting within 300 yards then the Grendel is probably best. If you going much further then the ARC is probably best.

[@hendo337]

I am willing to bet that unde 600-800yrds a 6.5G will be fine, especially since ammo is so much cheaper, like half price for good 123gr AAC from PSA vs good 108gr 6ARC ammo.

[@johnd843]

I feel with either caliber fits could fit your needs, but you really need to handload! I shoot the Grendel with AR-Comp using a 120g Lapua Scenar-L bullets, they shoot sub moa and love'em. I haven't gone down the ARC road even though I shoot the .243 Win for whitetail deer. The Grendel shoot lights out with an $100 barrel. When the funds are available, I will get a new barrel in 6mm ARC & give it a go. Good job on your vids. BUZZ

[@andygray5172]

I currently own a bolt grendel that i hand load 129gr and 130gr bullets for hunting. It has killed many Antalopes out past 400yds and several deer. I have been nothing but happy with it. That being said I'm selling it to my hunting partner and plan a 6 ARC build.

[@robertjackson1407]

Thank you 😊

[@IBDobby]

Thank you for another great video, you have justified my current .224 Valkyrie build!

[@SocialRegressive]

Heck yes. 224 Valkyrie rocks.

[@DB.KOOPER]

It really doesnt... not compared to available options. Its actually a really pointless cartridge.

[@IBDobby]

@@DB.KOOPER I’d think if one was so knowledgeable to make that comment they would also be intelligent enough to elaborate on the opinion.

[@paulharveu526]

With 6 ARC, I think the 87gr Vmax would be the ideal bullet for 80% of what your talking about. Pretty decent weight, BC, fair on varmints, but holds together a bit more them 58gr Vmax, so should be fine on hogs.

[@SocialRegressive]

The 87- grain vmax is my favorite 6mm bullet. It's really flexible.

[@johnweiser170]

What's wrong with using 450 Bushmaster for groundhogs I ask? Its makes the pirfect varmint cartridge becouse it just makes them dissapear. Now you see one... Boom, now you don"t.

[@SocialRegressive]

🤣🤣🤣

[@joelclark2130]

I would recommend Pro varmint for the lighter bullets, 55 and lighter. I also agree with the other two choices 2230, Varget are my go-to powders. Also h335 might be a choice

[@joealmodova8672]

H335 works for me 18in barrel 58 to 75 gr. Hornaday

[@paulharveu526]

One thing I think you should have charted or mentioned is, the 1900 fps max range. Most normal bullets need between 1800-2000 fps to expand correctly.

[@TheWarriorsMind]

I look at price of ammo. I bought 22 valkyrie ammo 90 gr fusion for >14.00 a box. The 224 valkyrie is flatter shooting than the arc and Grendel. It has the same path as the 6.5 creedmoor. It is subsonic to 1300 yrs. Accurate as hell. It outperforms a 22-250 (factory loads) and standard barrel twist.

[@thesmartestmanintheworld2653]

Grendel gang, rise up!

[@texpatriot8462]

I have the 6.5Grendel and a 6 ARC. I like the 6 ARC better. I make my brass from 6.5G brass.

[@G5Hohn]

The limiting factor for .243 is factory twist too slow for heavies.

[@Mike-xi4zt]

You can buy a custom barrel with any twist rate you want for 243. You do not have to invent a different cartridge to change the twist rate.

[@G5Hohn]

@@Mike-xi4zt yes, but the saami twist basically rules out every factory .243. That’s a big deal for a lot of people-not everyone has burned through a few barrels and grown comfortable to rebarreling.

[@ClintTorres]

Try finding 6ARC brass. Best source is complete ammo, atm.

[@SocialRegressive]

Same here.

[@oneheadlight8000]

224V barrels with federal factory ammo is rated around 4-6k shots

[@garrytalley8009]

Why the AR platform? Most practical is an older cartridge like the 22-250 Rem. In a light bolt gun with a Boyds Spike Camp Stock. Reason being its availability as a cartridge to purchase most anywhere and it has been used for everything you mentioned to shoot. It's proven, it's available and even medium sized game is taken with it. It would certainly make a short video though.

[@SocialRegressive]

22-250 is one of my favorite rounds. It's a laser beam of death. I've considered building one in 1:8.

[@jjgriffin3275]

Hey Hornady make some factory loads with the CX

[@devincarter801]

I have to go with my 6.5 grendel. I just love it way better

[@richardkut3976]

Excellent, thanks.

[@rollinassassin9499]

so pretty much it comes down to 6 arc vs 6.5 grendel and thats the same argument as whats better 6 creedmore vs 6.5 greedmore do you want a smaller faster bullet or do you want a heavier bullet down range

[@userer4579]

Where did you get the MV data you used in your chart? Do you know the barrel length that was used for each cartridge to produce those velocities?

[@SocialRegressive]

Unless I was quoting my personal guns, the barrel length was 24". My 6mm arc barrel was 18", and my .243 is 26".

[@SenseiLlama]

6mm arc doest offer enough for me switch away from my grendel. Really ammo cost would be the biggest deciding factor.

[@SocialRegressive]

Yeah, and most folks won't miss the sight ballistic edge. 6.5 Grendel is a wonderful round.

[@jnljnl8485]

I go with what I have. the good old 243. With the price of even building an ar15 today being inflated a cheap savage is something you don't mind always having in the truck getting banged up or possibly stolen.

[@SocialRegressive]

Can't beat .243 Win. I had long considered building an AR-10 in .243.

[@brucelewis1017]

I had a 243 in ar10 platform I built was a great accurate rifle

[@stephencooper5040]

Yeah, the requirement here in Oklahoma is 55gr projectile or more, there is no minimum caliber.

[@Hudge76]

I have a 6 ARC and 6.5 Grendel and they both have their place. While I do not recommend it, my oldest son knows a guy that killed a brown bear here in Alaska two weeks ago using his 6 ARC. My son said it took 7 shots to put the bear down, and it was not a small bear.