How Islam Began, Fred Donner: UnCommon Core Lecture

In recent decades there has been much scholarly debate over Islam's origins. The traditional Muslim view has increasingly been found inadequate, but critical scholarship has not been able to reach a consensus on how Islam arose. The present talk surveys the issues at stake and a number of interpretations that have been recently proposed to understand just what happened at the origins of Islam 14 centuries ago.
Presentation by Fred Donner.
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[@NoahKennedy-author]

Fred Donner and scholars like him are the real heroes of modern thinking about religion. Calm and thoughtful scholarship is what we need to listen to and learn from. The anger and intolerance in the comments here are tiresome to read and toxic: nothing is as bad and nothing is as good as what is claimed here.

[@البريقاللامع-ج8خ]

Noah Kennedy I think his style is so boring! I have feeling that he was not sure to study this field.

[@darriuscole8544]

@Noah Kennedy - Comments like this are conclusive proof that you haven't actually spent any time reading the Quran or hadiths. Or at least you had not when you wrote this comment; KZbin tells me that I am writing 3 years after your comment. Anybody that has read the Islamic scripture, any significant part of it, for it is not necessary to have read all of it; knows that Islam is WORSE that what the people describe in the thread comments. It is truly beyond the imagination of anybody who grew up in the West, unless they have studied it.

[@stephenconnolly1830]

Darrius Cole - I doubt you know what you are talking about since no civilization can spread and become dominant as Islam did for so many centuries if its core values were corrupt in the first place. The other commentators in this thread show this level of understanding and nuance. That you don't demonstrates you and your jaundiced views don't belong here.

[@darriuscole8544]

Unfortunately, I DO know what I am talking about. The values ascribed by the Quran are bad beyond the imagination of the average person born and raised in the US or Europe. If you don't think so then you either 1) Are a muslim yourself or 2) You have not read it. Most muslim people are better than what is allowed in Quran. Also, the fact that Islam spread does not mean that its underlying virtues are good. Governments with corrupt values become dominant all the time.

[@MrTeddydog]

And why his views do not belong here? And what the values are, if I can ask that lead to the genocide of Armenians? Islam was dominant because of the military conquests not because of the values it represents.

[@wisepersonsay3142]

Having lived in different countries with different beliefs, I can say one thing very clear and loud;very few people are practising their belief. The most of us worship money and power. Regardless of beliefs, we have this phenomenon in common. No difference, quintessential all the time.

[@786humaira1]

So well said.True most time and places.

[@smileysmileking]

cant agree more

[@ilonkastille2993]

Wisepersonsay we are not discussing people but a religion.

[@ilonkastille2993]

@@byronwright1612 he is certainly not the same as our God. Mainly (I think) because the socalled angel Gabriel who gave the messages to Mohammad, was not an angel of God and his messages were more diabolical. than anything else. Even M. thought the angel was a demon , in the beginning.

[@johnrevelation37]

What did Jesus say? 🤔 No one can serve two masters... it's either God is your master or money is your master". The Bible speaks truth once again...................................................

[@el-aaminahbintshahidLIFECOACH]

I personally think this man was somewhat fair with his opinion of how Islam started. He tried to stay as respectable as possible being a non-Muslim. NO, HE WONT TELL IT LIKE A MUSLIM WOULD TELL IT BECAUSE A MUSLIM WOULD TELL THE STORY WITH A PASSION OF BELIEF IN ISLAM!

[@politelyimpolite]

We owe such gratitude to academics, and academic historians in particular, for their consistent search for truth.

[@noratoufaili5869]

As a Muslim, I appreciate every second of this video. I didn't know even know 10% of this information about my OWN RELIGION. Thank you for this. Truly.

[@jamesi2018]

i like it also because it fits more with the concept of mohammad pbuh. i mean the way he treated people

[@noratoufaili5869]

JAMES IRVINE Exactly!!!

[@mdlatham7]

It's rubbish.

[@takeiteasy2305]

You should be ashamed of yourself

[@ssa6227]

Don't take information from these dishonest academics. Go to credible sources. They can tell you lot better. We have non Muslim and Muslim testimonials with chain of narrations that no other civilization can boast of. Yet they paint Muslims as dishonest while taking all other historical evidence without enough testimonials. Biased and racists.

[@lenwilkinson672]

One of the most sensible explanations of the origins of Islam,without the bombastic preachings of Islamic scholars who believe they are right and everyone else are infidels and are wrong.

[@gaychristian6196]

Well, infidels are wrong!

[@karimgadelrab7027]

Thanks for the calm and thoughtful analysis. I have to emphasize that your arabic pronunciation is impeccable. Very impressive! I personally learnt a lot about the history of my own religion.

[@inquisitivemind007]

This is more shocking kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqrKl42Ofayea5Y

[@LuisSalazar-vu4jd]

@Anas Siddiqui So because the Bible is Wrong, do we need to believe in the Quran?... Looks like both are wrong.

[@LuisSalazar-vu4jd]

@simp hunter Because the Bible has more consistency historically. The Bible was created during a big period of time, when the Quran just in 20 years

[@LuisSalazar-vu4jd]

@simp hunter Are The stories in the Quran about the prophets correct or not?, because many of them contradict the stories in the Bible.

[@LuisSalazar-vu4jd]

@simp hunter I think the Bible is more in line with history because it has been written in a big period of time. The Bible shows what the people of different times think about God(s),. In the other side, Quran reinterprets all those histories. Sometimes the Quran took stories and did not know exactly what they mean. Example the word Injil or Messiah. One additional contradiction that I found in the Quran is when they refers to God in first person plural, WE.

[@charlieescalante3652]

Learned a lot from watching this. It is truly amazing how little we know about the past. As a teacher, I try to emphasize the use of primary sources, yet we have so little of them for such big topics like origins of religion.

[@inquisitivemind007]

This is more shocking kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqrKl42Ofayea5Y

[@attiylanen]

@@inquisitivemind007 Yep! Muhammad never went to Jerusalem, except in his dreams riding a flying donkey(!). When Islam was young and Muhammad thought that he'd be able to convert the Jews, he had his first disciples (muslims) to pray towards Jerusalem. Of course, the Jews were not very convinced. What did Muhammad do then? He expelled and beheaded all Jews of his hometown, and had the gibla changed from Jerusalem to Medina.

[@saimtanweer5720]

@@attiylanen lies lies lies,it was not a dream but a real journey , see what you are doing is picking and leaving narrative from the hadith which suits your belief , horse was running not flying , Islam wasn't young it always was since Adam qibla was first put towards jerusalem to remove strong racial felling from the Arab Muslims not impress because it was there since Mecca period when there were no Jews , muslim punished only those Jewish tribes who broked there treaty others were allowed to live , qibla was changed to Mecca not medina

[@attiylanen]

​@@saimtanweer5720 wrote: "horse was running not flying" If not flying, then answer me this: why did the 'horse' have wings? If it was not flying, how could Muhammad make the journey from Mecca to Jerusalem in one single night? If it wasn't a dream, but a real journey, how is it possible to make the trip from Mecca to Jerusalem in a single night on a horseback? Plus, From Jerusalem Muhammad also flew to heaven. How ridiculous can one story be? But you are correct in this one. I made a mistake: Muhammad did change the qibla from Jerusalem to Mecca, not to Medina. That was my bad. See, I'm able to admit when I make a mistake or when I'm wrong. I've never seen any of your people admit when you're wrong. Everybody is free to read the whole story about the so-called break of treaty and how it was justified to have Muhammad behead 900 chained POWs in a single afternoon. Just read the Life of Muhammad by ibn Ishaq. It's all there. Don't take my word for it, neither take the word of any muslim. I urge everybody to just read it.

[@saimtanweer5720]

@@attiylanen wings were there 2 move really fast , and it wasn't a horse but a creature named buraq and it was too fast that's why it went to jerusalem to Medina in single night and from jerusalem to heaven was done with Gabriel not buraq correct if I'm wrong , so you can't say God can't do it for his Prophet Firstly you made another mistake , the judgement for Banu quraiza was given by Saad bin muad who made the treaty between muslim and Jews of Banu quraiza , if prophet would have did it he would have just expelled them from Medina for there treason And it was done according to DEUTERONOMY ch 13 rules , It wasn't so called break of treaty , it could have caused great loss to muslim , and saad died just few days after this judgement because he was wounded and Jews themselves choosed saad to give punishment for them And Ibn ishaq said 800 not 900 ,don't add extra , secondly his report is doubted by Muslim historian due to several reasons first ibn ishaq is not completely authentic and has some wrong narration , secondly the quran said about that punishment " some you executed and some you took captives " in ch 33 , so it is most authentic , and some other studies show that this large amount of men couldn't have belonged to single tribe and Medina a small city had no place for burial of these many mens and it happened just few hours after battle of trench , so most generally they would have been buried in the trench but report says they were buried in market place which doesn't looks correct because muslim were exausted so they wouldn't have took the pain to dig another grave yard

[@marie2859]

I ageee with a lot of what he says. I was raised Christian and became a Muslim. I dont think they are different religions but the same. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was sent to help bring us back to God's original message that he gave to everyone (so originally Jews and Christians) but their messages changed over time. Thats why i dont like to say "revert"or "convert" since its more like my faith has always been there, but ive come to a better understanding of God's original message. Therefore, this man's lecture with believers and how historical evidence of churches that were split with Muslims and Christians make so much sense

[@George-iv1hi]

Before converting to islam, you should finish your education. Now your opinion is that of a moron.

[@daverandle3575]

@@George-iv1hi yeah, this is the way you get people to buy what you selling.

[@oiulti6900]

I converted to islam too. Y friend became a reborn Christian, and introduced to me the concept of God. I started to learn Christianity… and then stumbled upon Islam, and the lord of the universe explained to me Christianity better than what current Christianity is. I believe Christian’s are really Muslims, but they don’t want to believe it, but I do, because the lord of the universe taught us this, Jesus was a Muslim too Alhumdulilah

[@MrCls88]

They're actually totally opposed. There are basically 2 religious systems out there, one based on salvation through faith (Bible Christianity alone) and the other one, where Islam is included with all of the other relions out there, based on salvation through own works, deeds. No true student of the Bible can ever become a muslim or anything else for that matter since they all lack "The way, The truth and The life".

[@marie2859]

@@MrCls88 this is a biased opinion, no offense :) every religion will teach "this is the true religion" and devote followers will be convinced their belief is truth. Our job is to research not just what the religion teaches (e.g. does it make sense, is it logical) but the evidence and strength of that religion being true. Christianity has such a beautiful message of love, hope, salvation but when it comes to evidence of reliability, it unfortunately is very weak. Nobody knows who wrote the 4 gospels for example. They were called Matthew mark luke and john in the 2nd century but were written unanimously. Biblical scholars believe the apostle Paul only wrote half the books claimed to be written by him. Biblical scholars also believe peter couldn't have written 1 and 2nd peter because it was written in highly skilled Greek and peter was an illiterate fisherman who spoke Aramaic. Revelation was written by a man named John but not THE John, not one of Jesus's disciples. Ending of mark isn't original, story of the prostitute in John was a 10th century addition....the Christmas stories contradict each other because there is a 10 year gab between King Herod and Quirinius. Shall I continue? In summary, I sincerely love Christianity. I really enjoy learning about the theology of Christianity (protestant). I listen to Biblical scholars basically every day. But the strength of evidence for Christianity really is weak. At the end of the day, it's not about which religion has the best promises and message. Its about which religion has the strongest evidence of being true. And from several years of research and learning, my conclusion is Islam has the strongest evidence of being true, despite my deep love for Christianity

[@btcpk]

I’ve never seen anyone do it better.

[@sylvia7000]

try Cira International, have fun . . . ..

[@israfilangel8062]

@@sylvia7000 cira is just a bunch of liars who twists things to suit tbeir agenda! They've been already exposed by their own people many times!

[@robmckay5421]

It was Ernest Renan who said the Islam was born in the full light of history.

[@sandlikhaled]

the islam give full light of the History :)

[@syedali7205]

May be it was. But considering the large number of enemies the Prophet, considering the inter-Muslim quarrels than began immediately after his death, the probability of history catching the truth was very small.

[@gvjudd1289]

the stupidest statement ever made by a westerner ,sure he was present at the birth he caught the yawling infant as it burst out of aminas vagina ,also was splashed with all the blood urine amniotic fluid feaces so renan should know,he just forgot to take a selfie

[@indialover83]

@@syedali7205 the fitna between the ummayads and the hashemites with the ansar struggle put in, makes early islam a historical nightmare.

[@budyharianto8229]

anyone here have heard of "christian prince" ??.. seek it..

[@an08p]

As a Muslim, I feel every religions are man made politics of old. No god wants people to worship them as slaves, only Monarchs of the past wanted people to fear the unknown and obey rules which is not a bad thing politically. God the supreme one is loving and loves us all. Only the supreme one planned everything and will take us all back one day from every living to non living things.

[@richardjardeleza2289]

You right Fred, how there be a trinity when there is only One God

[@P.H.888]

Because HE is 3 persons and He can’t lie and has shown Himself to mankind 3 men appeared to Abraham! All 3 are YHVH. So either believe God & Abraham Or call God a liar!

[@love1nada1]

P Harrison the concept of the trinity came 100 years after Jesus the prophet of God. And who came up with it? Unknown people..and one Jewish guy who lied about everything (Paul).

[@gregoriysharapov1936]

@@P.H.888 Trinity is an invented concept. See Codex Sinaiticus, an old manuscript. You'll see there is no Comma Johanneum. quransmessage.com/articles/trinity%20FM3.htm

[@feduntu]

@@love1nada1 how can a g0d send down a book and not protect it from corruption? basically 40 different variants of the koran, not qiraats

[@angelarmstrong1363]

@@feduntu how is there 40 different variants? This is the first I’m hearing of this.

[@hasen_judi]

His Arabic pronunciation is very good!

[@naser766]

At what minute did he speak Arabic?

[@mohammedubed7000]

@@naser766 some words like Amir ul momineen, hijra, and one ayat probably.

[@dannyhughes4889]

The Israeli Arabist Dr. Mordechai Kedar [lots on KZbin] offers the following: Mohammed in Mecca was befriended by a Yemenite Rabbi who for some blurred reason moved to Mecca and found a kindred sprit in Mohammed even to living in his home for an extended period.. The Rabbi taught him the ways of Judaism which became a basis for his 'I believe". However Mohammed was rejected by the locals who knew him well and accused him of doing a simple 'copy/paste' from Judaism and Christian teachings. This time in Mecca was where the Koran was titled the Peaceful/Loving message period but after he and his followers moved to Medina finally gathered a following and power he returned to Mecca and slaughtered the unbelievers. Something else that Kedar claims is that Jerusalem is not mentioned even ONCE in the Koran.

[@idkanymore6634]

He’s Israeli you can’t take anything they say seriously

[@RaimonTarou]

If you read all the comments here, its as if none of them bothered to watch the video. If not that, then their basically saying they know better than a historian with a PhD who is the director of the center for middle eastern studies at chicago university.

[@mohammadhooksit]

It only takes perseverance to get a PhD. There are a lot of quacks with doctorates. And yes I am sure there are folks on these threads with a better understanding of Islamic history than this fool.

[@Sphere723]

The worst part is he has spent years recovering, translating and documenting 7th century Arabic papyrus' which literally no other living person knows of.

[@Evelyne888]

Thank you for this very informative lecture! I think it is important that we know what we're talking about :) - and it's a great way to discover the lies which are also being passed on in the media and so on, which could easily be used for propaganda etc. Thanks again.

[@Timakiwala]

Green 💚 colour hair.. Islam is formed with Forces, Swords ⚔️, Bullets, Killings, means all are Converted from other religions. No self ideology,,No laws,, Only Men's are rulling,, Womens are tortured,, Womens are machines for producing 20,30, 50 childrens.. 4/5/6 wives...Talak TALAK Talak 3 words to destroy Women's,,, Interested in 72 HOORS with very big size Breast....Ladies have no place in society. Hum converted SUWARS Hai. Hum KALAMA Padhate hai... Huma-me JAJABA hai... Hum TALAK de sakate hai... Hum HALALA bhee karate hai(enjoyment)... 72 HOORS with big boobs for us... We can produce 20/30/50 kids , hamara Penis عضو تناسل Powerful Hai(4/6 wives)... Kya huwa, hamare bachche بچے Pancharwala Beggers Hotel worker Butcher Riksha puller hai to,, JIHADI bhee hai, inshallah....

[@Joey-rp5vg]

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are different branches of the same tree. With Islam you must believe in Judaism and Christianity to be a muslim. Every time God, Allah seen man was straying from the path, god sent another messenger to bring man back. Is it so difficult for people to believe that all these 3 single god religions are extensions of each other? The most strange thing in this world is people!!!!!!!!!!

[@manmoun1962]

I met Fred Donner 13 years ago..I assure you that he is a great scholar..he speaks and reads Classical Arabic like no Arabist I have met...he knows his stuff.

[@TheMfbs17]

@L B bullshit

[@ihamdym8685]

His Arabic is so flawless

[@mohdnadzri5915]

I like to know the truth .. but did you all realise he keep on mentioning beutiful picture painted about Muhammad and keep us wondering .. this is what we call careful structured .. to find what are the bad thing about Muhammad (pbuh).. as a scholar he should give example of both cases bad picture and good picture so people can make analysis ..

[@MohamedAhmed-eg3mh]

He said that prophet Mohammad has the Quran in a noise but actually the Quran was revealed to him in many ways including the Angel coming to him

[@truthseeker10990]

If you read between the lines, and think carefully about the ends of the idea he is presenting, you would not be very happy about what he presents about Islam, is but my humble opinion.

[@dantefuego]

Free Iran from Islam

[@thesavior6291]

Islam is different from other Abrahamic faiths. Compulsion/submission is the theme of Islam: there is compulsion in the following: prayers, fasting, dress code, pilgrimage, and so on. In Christianity, this is not so...

[@sidprice6214]

If you took the time to study the history (including the Bible) of the Hebrews/Jews and Christians you will see just how inaccurate your claims are.

[@celestialknight2339]

I am a Muslim, and unfortunately many Muslims are afraid of Western scholarship & academia when it comes to the Qur’an or Islam (so too are many Christians & Jews when it comes to their religion), because they think it will invalidate their faith or cause them doubts. But I have to say that I actually find it INVIGORATING and REFRESHING to hear new, open-minded and diverse perspectives and insights that academics have to share. I often find gems that INCREASE my faith when I read their works. You don’t have to accept all of it, but that’s the point-have an open mind and be willing to listen to new perspectives, and be a critical thinker who thinks for themselves. As the Qur’an itself encourages: *”Those who listen to what is said, and follow the BEST of it. It is **_those_** whom God has truly guided. Those are the ones who possess real intellect.”* _(Qur’an __39:18__)_

[@sidprice6214]

Muslims are not afraid of Western Scholarship and academia after all it has had its own scholarships for hundreds of years analysing Islam as well. What is disconcerting is when bias and prejudice is dressed up as scholarship and academia and sold to unsuspecting poorly educated Muslim populations. To give you an example : Dr Daniel Brubaker and his book (20 Corrections in the Quran(?)). Although the book itself was not a work of scholarship it was presented as an extension (or extract) of his scholarly thesis. It is clear from the book that Dr Brubaker had already made up his mind about the preservation of the Quran before even listing one so-called "correction". As i said Muslims are not afraid... and in fact the Quran ITSELF challenges everyone - including scholars and academics - to critically analyse the Quran. If Allah himself is not afraid of academia and scholars why should Muslims be? Its not really about accepting or not accepting what western academics say. It is about validating their accuracy and truthfulness and eliminating prejudice and bias from their work. The truth/haqq is from Allah and hence ANY haqq is acceptable to Muslims even if expounded by western academics and scholars. However lies and innuendos presented as truth are strongly rejected.

[@afiqmohd1150]

@@sidprice6214 you said it beautifully

[@sidprice6214]

@@afiqmohd1150 Thanks. Its mostly common sense which people don't seem to want to apply.

[@heliosperegrin]

How does it increase your faith to find out that the whole religion was basically shaped as a political tool?

[@celestialknight2339]

@@heliosperegrin Methodological naturalism. Do yourself a favor & look up those two words 👍🏼 Take care.

[@SudhirKumar-yk2ft]

Great scholar...clam and clear understanding on the topic

[@Elijah.19]

Benjamin Park he is a professor of Islam and near eastern studies. He is considered a orientalist scholar. I have his book that I used in seminary called narratives of Islamic origins. His profile in it calls him a scholar 🤔

[@inquisitivemind007]

This is more shocking kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqrKl42Ofayea5Y

[@PaulBrown-ty5kc]

One can only know the truth about any religion from real world history, not from the perspective of religious lectures.

[@RaimonTarou]

You can tell reading most of the comments here that they didn't even bother watching the video.

[@erkanbolat]

Yeah because they’re not here in order to learn they’re here to fight.

[@timothybunnsr.5490]

I am confident as a Christian for being competent enough to follow this discussion through comparison and contrast and the depth of the subject required to listen here, as well other discussions and debates I am following.

[@inquisitivemind007]

This is more shocking kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqrKl42Ofayea5Y

[@psychopeoples4384]

I just finished one of his books, then search youtube to know about him more. He is undoubtedly a very good scholar and writer. As a Muslim, I appreciate his research. Thanks a lot for your hard work. I bilive Islam and the Qur'an are certainly not just for Muslims it is the latest revolution from God has sent for all believers and every human beings.

[@uniformityofnature1488]

There have been other religions after Islam so to say Islam is the latest revelation from God is a false narrative

[@psychopeoples4384]

@@uniformityofnature1488 Yes, but it is possible to prove that they are all man-made. Islam acknowledges previous revolutions and says that this is the last revolution for everyone . Islam was sent by God and it is the only holey book that perfectly preserved, it has chain of narration, there is no possibility of being wrong here. No other religion can claim and proved that those r not corrupted by time.

[@uniformityofnature1488]

@@psychopeoples4384 Yes according to the standard Islamic narrative that is the case. How do you know it is divine is it because it says so? You know Muslims are the only one that talk about their holy text being persevered and somehow conclude it is the best? For starters Christians and Jews don’t believe their holy books were sent by “God” they acknowledge they are historical sources of events following a particular bloodline of people you could say. The only thing Christians believe that was sent by “God” is Jesus and Jews are yet to receive their gift from “God”. So with the whole book preservation “argument” Muslims are punching the air unfortunately. It doesn’t make sense to me, in no other Jewish or Christian scripture was there ever promise of a whole document such as a Quran, was there ever such a promise? Just because a book is preserved doesn’t mean content is coherent with history, it just means it’s unchanged. I can argue that religion institutions are man made and a product of shifting cultural paradigms and external influences. can’t faith in “God” can be attained through individual reflection and action? I’ve read the Quran and the Bible. Abraham rationally(logically) comes to the conclusion there must be only one source “God”. Does he then make a religion out of it or did that occur over time as a result of human clan mentality? Same with Jesus he literally only comes to educate and warn people of the “religious institutions” he doesn’t introduce a new religion that all happened after his death. Another example is Hinduism a term used by Persians to describe people living beyond the Indus. The British too adopted this term these are all human constructs because people are tribal. Outside “religion” we have nazis, feminists, conservatives, liberals least goes on why is religion and expectation? Shouldn’t we me talking about what values we ought to hold regardless because that is what God represents at the end of the day “values” you cannot personify something that is almighty and not human it’s condemning but it’s the best we can do I get. Why are we talking about social category categorisation? Philosophers and thinkers have been logically coming to the conclusion about morality and science and one God independent of religion. Abraham, Jesus did philosophy just as Socrates and Zarathustra did during different times and at different nations. Islam(Sunni) is only special in the sense it is cultural Arab with Persian influence and maybe of others that came before it. It was specifically narrated to a geopolitical area of the world which had no idea of a monotheistic “God”. The bestowal from on high of this divine writ issues, beyond any doubt, from the Sustainer of all the worlds: and yet, they [who are bent on denying the truth] assert, “[Muhammad] has invented it!” Nay, but it is the truth from thy Sustainer, enabling thee to warn [this] people to whom no warner has come before thee, so that they might follow the right path. 36:2-3 “ to warn this people to warn people to whom no Warner’s have come before thee, so they might follow the right path” The Quran was specifically revealed in Arabic yes? In a particular nations of the world that had yet been susceptive to the idea of monotheism. The were not Arabs yes? Nor were the Hebrews, nor were the Romans/Byzantines all these groups had already been exposed to monotheistism. I believe Muhammad wasn’t the first prophet to be sent The Arabian Peninsula had prophets as well like prophet Salih Lo! We sent unto them two [apostles], and. they gave the lie to both; and so We strengthened [the two] with a third; and thereupon they said: “Behold, we have been sent unto you [by God]!”

[@psychopeoples4384]

@@uniformityofnature1488 tldr

[@uniformityofnature1488]

@@psychopeoples4384 🤷‍♂️not my problem

[@MartinJames389]

1. Because people weren't operating in a literary culture, but one of oral tradition and recitation. 2. The Hadiths are alleged sayings which Muslims may choose to take or leave (unlike the Qur'an). Many prefer to leave many of them and simply say they don't agree with them.

[@mohsiniqbal7552]

Comments section shows that the society is already brainwashed and dont want to listen anything which is opposite to the media. Thanks for this lecture. Here is a verse from Qur'an: Indeed, those who have believed and those who became Jews and Christians and the Sabians who believe in God and the Day of Judgment and do good deeds, they shall have their reward with their Lord and they shall neither have fear [for the future] nor any remorse [for the past]. (2:62)

[@AJSoundbites]

Go checkout exmuslim spartacus channel if you understand urdu.

[@orlandothompson4186]

Sabean are moon worshippers. Prove more that Allah is al Ilah. All you guys did was take the I out

[@stuartdodson6630]

Is that true? I haven’t read so I don’t know. I don’t care for this man’s atheistic religious perspective, but I appreciate having the opportunity presented to see and read your comment. Peace be with you, brother.

[@AstroRamiEmad]

@@orlandothompson4186 you are a living proof of Dunning-Kruger effect

[@ultramaxpro8537]

But history has shown Islam has caused 374 million deaths in this world. Still calling Islam peaceful?

[@dowmd93]

Definition of believers is given in 3rd chapter, beginning of Surah Al Imran. It says believer is one who believes in one God, all Angels, all holy books, all Prophets of Allah, Judgement day,

[@PKPPK3DIV]

The lack of historical narrative of the time points to the earlier origins of the religion. Islam was not founded by Muhammad SAW; he only continued the same divine teachings of previous prophets like Abraham, Moses and Jesus

[@rahman21244]

Seems to be truthful and honest, non-biased presentation.

[@SoftSpeakin6]

@Al Mudarabah I'm afraid you're incorrect. Your judgement of levels in Islam is A BIG part of modern Islam interpretation. The professor is simply analyzing the Qur'an and is not wrong or said to have missed anything. He also conceded there's no historical evidence from the time of Muhammad. Your submission based on the Qur'an text is already modern Islam.

[@stephenmurphy1003]

@@SoftSpeakin6 You're wrong.

[@SoftSpeakin6]

@@stephenmurphy1003 and you're a Muslim 😋

[@lisaburnside2101]

Try listening to good scholarly sources such as Dan Gibson’s Sacred City, The Jay Show, Dr. Bill Warner-

[@kehana2908]

@@SoftSpeakin6 damn ok lmao

[@kennorton1478]

I suppose this guy's second language is Arabic as his pronunciation of Arabic words is perfect which is very rare among westerners. Yes I am an Arabic person.

[@yeshuaweha1862]

He study Arabic at the Middle East Centre for Arab Studies (MECAS) in the village of Shimlan, Lebanon.

[@kehana2908]

i think second language is a bit of a stretch, but he's surely studied it. i speak urdu and am muslim, and I've been told i have really good pronunciation, but i can only very vaguely understand it.

[@Alfie1970Waterhouse]

@@kehana2908depends who told you you had really good pronunciation.

[@mkh5522]

If Quran or Mohammad is false then humanity is completely lost.

[@michaelflynt6788]

From the evidenciary texts state the references used within the Koran are quite directly drawn from Judaic Talmud or verbal recitation of the rabbinical traditions.

[@sleeexs]

Truw

[@aminaaden2921]

No it isn't far from truth. Stop claiming everything Islamic and proof it with evidence which you can't!!!

[@abdouls2386]

its almost the complete opposite, the talmud was fully organized in the 11-1300's and jews in arabia adopted many islamic concepts especially the greatest jewish scholar/rabbi maimonides, the Quran is very unique and still held as the highest form of the arabic language, you can hear the very clear distinction from the Quran rhyming and following a clear pattern while the rabbical verbal recitations are just teachings recited

[@dbey8422]

How can it be the highest form of arabic when at the time of writing there wasn't a developed arabic writing system?@@abdouls2386

[@sohailaislam2416]

Very few appreciate a lecture from a person who took the learning and took the trouble to do his best . It is quite clear that more intolerance exists than tolerance and understanding and good- will towards faiths other than one’s own .

[@johnwill8350]

Islam is pure intolerance

[@Thachosen1nee]

Islam didn't begin with muhammad it ended with him.

[@easterlinear]

Oh glad it’s over then

[@thermionic1234567]

I’m more interested in how Islam will be ended.

[@SaddamHussain-we9ec]

it won't dear.

[@wkdravenna]

@@SaddamHussain-we9ec it's probably going to die in a hole in the desert and not be missed much.

[@SaddamHussain-we9ec]

@@wkdravenna we will see.

[@Realliberal]

It will become the Islamocrat party and we are stuck with it forever.

[@thermionic1234567]

FPV Red Tail 274 million people killed in the name of the Paedophile Prophet. Women forced to wear garbage bags. Suicide bombers. Hatred of dogs and music...

[@ДмитрийАверьянов-у4м]

comes as friend turns out your master

[@inquisitivemind007]

This is more shocking kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqrKl42Ofayea5Y

[@awaisraad]

The professor seems confused on what a "momin" is and thus trying to suggest if early Islam was not actually a separate religion. A momin is highest level of piousness one can achieve. You embrace Islam, you become a Muslim. And when you follow Islam in every aspect, you reach to the level of a Momin. To explain this simply, it would be like you get into school and become a student, but when you become PHD holder you become a doctor. So a Muslim is a student, and a Momin is Doctor. I hope that helps.

[@serano5023]

Yes, a new look to the beginning is needed

[@miriamsackler5002]

Abdullah Al-Selwi I am a non-practising New York Jew married to a devout Episcopalian Irish man. We just visited the Umayyad Mosque in Damascus. What a magnificent building! What I’ve found remarkable is that the Shrine of Nabi Yahya bin Zakarya (St. John the Baptist), has been given a special place inside the Sanctuary of the mosque. John, my husband, not the Prophet, has been very proud ever since that he got the chance to visit the shrine dedicated to the eponymous of his namesake, in a Muslim country of all places, far away from his parents’ native Ireland.

[@abdulrehman-md1nx]

@@miriamsackler5002 yahya a.s ,moses a.s jesus a.s ,mohammed s.a.w etc are all prophets and are being respected equally

[@malawigw]

why? It is all made up bullshit anyway

[@MutazAlhami]

minute 19:20 When the Qur’an addresses the reader or listener (O believers) and not (O Muslims), this is because the Qur’an addresses all believers in God, Muslims and non-Muslims. The accuracy and eloquence of the Qur’an is greater than the integrity of the speaker and his knowledge of the Qur’an

[@uniformityofnature1488]

I agree to an extent however having quickly gone through some hadiths and Sunnahs Christians and Jews were 2nd class citizens. Jews were treated badly and are constantly made to look like villains why?

[@mkh5522]

Quran is the greatest legacy, covenant and charter humanity has possesses from Allah(God) Almighty.

[@anwarsufi618]

I dont understand this type of scholarship. This is a type of scholarship that is essentially missing the entire point. Fred Donner should know better than any of us that stories were not documented because the arabic peoples were not peoples who wrote things down. The arabs are a tradition known as an oral tradition. Everything was memorised. The Islamic tradition has various sources of information. 1) The Quran is known as the most authentic source - which he seems to base everything on. 2) The tradition has the Hadith literature which is monumental in the amount. There have been thousands and thousands of sayings of the prophets, and things that he did that have been collected. And these sayings have been scrutinised as to their validity by the early muslim scholars. They have even been graded as to how authentic they were based on how many people have transmitted the same saying from the prophet. There are various sayings that are on the same level of the authenticity of the Quran. And others that are extremely authentic as well. Why doesnt he use any of these? Its half rate scholarship to apply western methods to a civilisation that was clearly different. Disappointing to say the least.

[@SoftSpeakin6]

Hi...the hadith came into existence 239 years after Muhammad's death. Clearly not authentic

[@kennethleavell5121]

very poor audio. I have the volume on full and can hardly hear

[@truthseeker10990]

your device is the problem

[@joeiiiful]

My Samsung Galaxy 10s plus is very good. I have the volume set at 3/4.

[@Banditxam4]

You have a bad device Bro

[@AllaahuAkbar60]

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;- Quran 4 : 157-158 ....

[@mikecruise9310]

1.9 billion people believe in prophet Muhammad message because direct he got it from God Quran job of one man prophet Muhammad nobody’s going to come to the earth to come with a book like that this book (Quran)direct from creator God

[@WMedl]

Do you play poker? If so, then 2,4 billions are christians, a religion about 600 years older than Islam from which Mohammed derived a lot of stuff. Not forgetting the more more older religion of Judaism from which both religions are derived. And more than one billion of Hindus.... But the orime religions are Apple, Android, Facebook , TikTok...

[@fazisee3146]

I like Islam whatever haters say...

[@uniformityofnature1488]

lol kill the infidels take what your right hand has. Hate Jews, women have half the intelligence of men, throw gays of tall buildings, kill someone if they leave Islam, stone a woman to death for adultery, child marriage, placing Christians/Jews 2nd class citizens. You’re right what is there not to love. Historically differs from secular and other Abrahamic sources e.g. claiming Abraham was Muslim and he built the kabba etc etc

[@trinitymatrix9719]

allah is the greatest deceiver ever was. so sad to see so many deceived, not willing to look at the origins. God bless us all...

[@easterlinear]

Yeah Islam is nice

[@trinitymatrix9719]

I like iSlam Dunk too, the new NBA game from EA. Too bad it was Xbox exclusive though....God bless...

[@MaverickSeventySeven]

So you approve of pedophilia?

[@cybermatrix13]

Very interesting lecture.

[@miriamsackler5002]

An Absolutely wonderful lecture !

[@akka6688]

Jezus Moses Abraham David and Muhammad all are 1 that called apon Allah, Islam is continuing, quran hasn't changed its the final message from God to the sons of Adam.

[@read1communications]

How is it that we have text from Aristotle and Plato? Muslims were masters of their historical narratives. There was Abu al Bakhtari, ibn Hisham, Abu Bakr, Ibn Abu Quhafah, al Taymi, and Aishad. All have their own account of the prophet Muhammad. May God increase us all in knowledge.

[@gregb6469]

That he thinks Allah is the same deity as the God of the Bible shows that he doesn't have a clue!

[@bygrace24]

I agree. He doesn't understand the nature of God as opposed to the nature of allah. Two very different sources.

[@buistebirisvar]

According to islam in quran god says, i dont have A son. I am not born or give birth. Ones Who Say that is doing A big sin. I dont look Like anything you can assume.. Some say scientific miracles in quran is all wrong and put links.(while lots of People n scientists convert to islam when they see those verses) Instead of watching those silly videos, read quran and see.. Mostly they take one verse out and give it wrong meaning. And they read as it is, word by word, dont try to catch what it means, they look what it writes in a metarialistic way. For example "we put curtains between waters and they dont mix" A stupid says look here is two waters, stiring, u see they r mixed" but today we know that there are cold and Hot water streams in oceans and they dont mix even the sea too, if so there cant be different salt rates and temperature differences that much.. Read n judge. Dont believe everything. Allahsquran.com

[@bellycurious]

Well... Why in the Quran Moses and Jesus are mentioned more than once? God of the Quran even states that he hadn't a son... You lie.

[@tydiab8838]

Excuse me? The people of the land of the Bible are 89% Muslim, 8 % Christian, 3% Jewish, and yes they all believe in the God of Noah and Abraham, and all 3 refer to God as Allah, means the one and only God, ella is just the word for God, you're obviously not a history teacher..

[@tydiab8838]

To think the 1st born children of Abraham ( don't believe in his God, is as foolish as saying Children of Pilgrims to Plymouth rock aren't Americans. The first always believe longer!!!!!

[@Muslim604c]

Wow, lots of haters in these comments.

[@devindevon]

Religion never fails to bring out the best in everyone.

[@georgekechanin4147]

Muslim604 out nun

[@Matthew-hh6ex]

You almost got it right, we hate Islam not people, but since Muslims meaning the people are the one killing people in the name of Allahabad we tend to hate them too

[@intalmdr4627]

@@Matthew-hh6ex lol lol

[@fhollhuber1622]

Excellent presentation. One weakness is the omission to consider the many fractions, theological debates and disagreement within the christians, and probably jews as well, at the time. E.g. monophytism as pointed out by Prof. Freedman in Yale, also available here.

[@Azukos]

Very interesting. Thanks a lot Mister Donner!

[@alexwilson9726]

The doctrine of the trinity is not the same thing as "3 Gods". I have my own opinion on the trinity but even under traditional and fundamentalist Christian theology the doctrine of the trinity is not "3 Gods"

[@bowilliam3865]

God has no partners. Or children. He is a above such things

[@jamesi2018]

the biggest problem with christianity is that it cuts out the need for god, this is only because the christian bible is witten by a satanic cult, search for the red shoe club, the christian church is designed to make you an unbeliever

[@samuelmorales2344]

3 gods sounds like tritheism which was a Christian heresy but not orthodox Christianity or the Melkites. Muslims don't understand the Quran. It gives very little context and abruptly changes subject without any warning.

[@rukk_tx5285]

The "believers" movement theory is highly speculative but the late shift to Islam is obvious, given the sources available.

[@Iammram]

He's misunderstanding because it's going to say Oh you who believe because it's talking to the people of those who believe in 1 God, etc. It's not going to say Oh you Muslims because it's speaking to the audience that are not all Muslim to get them to understand first before stating it as Islam.

[@mohammedaminetaibi4122]

Very good analysis and impressive Arabic pronounciation. However, I think you put so much emphasis on the distinction between a believer and a muslim. In Arabic the two words may be used as synonyms sometimes, but according to a prophetic tradition, it has been explained that a Muslim's relation to God starts by becoming a Muslim, which essentially consists of obeying the commandments of the Five Pillars of Islam. Next comes "Iman", believing, which is the next step in a Muslim's approaching to God's favor. The concept consists of believing in the existence of God, his angels, his holy books, his prophets, the Latter Day and finally in the existence of fate. The last step is called "Ihsan" I don"t know how to translate this one to English, but I'll try to explain it here. Ihsan is the highest level of faith that a Muslim could strive for, it essentially means worshipping God as if one were sure that He sees their every move. The notion of Ihsan is a little troubeling because it challenges Muslims' belief in God's omnipresence. The perfect Muslim is supposed to remember God in each and every moment of thei lives, that's why if you ever get to meet a really devout Muslim you'd find them repeating mantras (oral prayers) specific to every action they make during the day. There are mantras for when you wake up, when you bath, before you eat, after you eat, while you eat in case you forgot to say it at the beginning, when you go out, when you come back home etc...

[@zahramahde2096]

🙏🌺 It's good to be musl8 God Bless you إحسان

[@wantanamera]

Hardcore

[@greenlimabean]

Thank you. Can they say original mantras. ?

[@mohammedaminetaibi4122]

@@greenlimabean There are many examples. What I called mantras are generally prayers (Dua'a), but they need to be distinguished from the act of praying "Salat" which is ritual repeated at least 5 times a day by all Muslims. The Dua'a prayers are memorized citations, the work like Christian prayers, I called them mantras because the word "prayer" has 2 different translations in Arabic. Examples of these prayers or mantras are numerous. Before eating or drinking, one is supposed to say "Bismillah - In the Name of God". After eating Muslims are supposed to say "Alhamdulillah - Praise be to God". When waking up, there are collections of prayers and mantras called "Azkaru Sabah - Citations of the Morning"that Muslims memorize and speak them to themselves every morning. These are some minor examples.

[@abdulrehman-md1nx]

OMER SERIES is made in which all battles with persian and roman empires are covered .quality is no less than hollywood .consists of 30 episodes

[@MrBedmash]

If you study Islam it's easy to understand its success and rapid growth the key factors that contributed were 1. The authoritative nature helped rulers to keep an iron hand on their followers. 2. There was no way of opposing the religion which could mean the death penalty. 3. You cannot go out of Islam it's a shirk. 4. There was no room for debate in Islam, unlike other religions. 5. The disrespect to women in Islam also helped it to spread faster. Any ruler or rich person could have any number of wives and children. 6. The state was an army within, once a state was conquered it was easy to kill people of other faith and take over the state on religious sentiments. 7. Great examples of these could be seen in the modern world were in Islamic countries the no of minorities have sharply gone down over the years. 8. Islam is a very political religion.

[@hygg1829]

You're a dumbass. Ignorants like you always have an answer which irregardless of how flawed it is you stick to it just because it originated as you chased a flawed belief

[@MrBedmash]

​@@hygg1829 the way you speak itself shows your ignorance and disbelief. when people do not have anything on their side the best way is to curse others and kill them.

[@MrBedmash]

@@hygg1829 you are 1000 years behind so for you to understand History and modern-day science becomes very difficult. And I bet you cannot even refute any of my points.

[@hygg1829]

@@MrBedmash says the guy who's probably a white nationalist

[@mohammedubed7000]

@@MrBedmash your points are already not backed by any proof. They are already refuted if you struggle to read Qur'an. But disbelievers like you probably search on google typing "ways to defeat muslims' arguments". If you would have read hadiths and Quran you wouldn't even make this stupid statement.

[@TahaWasiq]

Only ten years later since this lecture, we do have rock inscription from the times of prophet's companions, and Fred Donner's own student Prof. Sean Anthony discovered a biography of the Prophet written by his nephew, Urwa ibn Zubair. We are optimistic finding more!

[@ashokafulcrum4795]

can you send me the sources of the rock inscriptions and the found Biography? I seem to misplace this news on the web

[@Css_Xlic]

that's bs

[@sarahprincess1045]

Didn't find about any such discovery online. Your sources?

[@PenganutAgamaDamaiKolohBakwan]

All of you still asking source? I've found it, it's come from their hole when they do bowing between their prayers.

[@عبدالله-ر8ف6ق]

@@sarahprincess1045 The medinan museum in arabic displays such findings, as it is arabic, you will hardly find english news on it

[@disguisedgenius5583]

Not clear or descriptive enough, and also some very essential issues are skipped.

[@attiylanen]

Well, if one wants to polish the tarnished shield of Islam, he has to be very vague and leave out links to any important sources. Taqiya level critical here. Makes me sick that there are people this dishonest in the world.

[@saif9720]

Bruh is this a real academic lmao, Western scholarship on Islam is crazy...

[@TheIsmaelIsaac]

As Arabic speaker I must say that you are very knowledgeable and very fluent in Arabic.

[@israfilangel8062]

Despite knowing some arabic, mostly what he said is not very accurate

[@jayola4119]

Sick explanation

[@imranr99]

As a Muslim, I find westerners historical view on Islam interesting, but flawed. The problem they have with dates us due to the pre Islamic Arabs not having a calendar. This improves after Hijra, because this is where the Islamic calendar begins. Also, when our tradition spoke of the Jews in Madinah, the western historians found this hard to believe, as they still have no idea where these Jews came from. And these western historians fail to understand that the early Muslims defeated the Persian empire and the Roman empire. This would be like a group to emerge from Wales, take over the UK and defeat to America and Russia!

[@thomasbayer1843]

Is any of that relevant to the video you are replying to? I assume you watched part or all of it? Feel free to criticize or disagree with the content of the video but I don't see what specific points you are making against THIS video.

[@allenstroud7064]

Muhammad was not a devout religious man until he reached adulthood. He was a businessman, married to an already rich woman. Muhammad's business dealings in commerce (trade caravans) required regular contact with Christians and Jews. I suspect that influence eventually moved Muhammad's religious "world-views" away from the pantheistic religions in Mecca at the time, which was the accepted worship of 59 or so different gods; a likely carry-over from Greek pantheistic mythologies. A cursory study of Islam and the Qur'an reveals "high-jacked" components from both religions. i.e.: (1.) A monotheistic, Creator God that rewards and punishes. (2.) Jesus is spoken of very highly as a prophet, and Muslims are taught to love Jesus; but only as a prophet and messenger (primarily to the Jews). (3.) Muhammad is greater that Jesus. It is impossible to know how well the Quran expresses Muhammad's original teachings, because He died many years before the Qura'n was compiled. Muhammed was born in 570 CE. He received his first "vision" in 610 CE. He led military revolts prior to the Higira in 622 CE. He died in 632 CE at age 62 and left no clear instructions to or about his successor. His Uncle was the first to take leadership of the people. After that, it was left to military leaders to build the empire of Islam, and it was always politically motivated by the quest for power. In that day, and today still, the core tenets of Islam do not serve the muslim people. Islam, and now ISIS, serve only an elite class of men in power. It has always been that way. ISIS is merely the logical, continuing approach to progression of that process. Muslims in the middle and lower class fall victim to political extremism and ISIS; just as the American middle and lower classes of citizenry fall victim to the U.S. political machine in control at this time in America. But the "Times Are Changing", and the sleeping GIANT in AMERICA is about to awaken.

[@lionabbass]

+Allen Stroud you are a wrongly informed non muslim about Islam. whatever your religion you are no historian of Islam and 2 or points from your post illustrate your ignorance; no evidence from Islam that the noble prophet [sa] was influenced by jewish and christians of his few caravan expedition before prophet-hood. just blanketed statement without proof[s] is laughable and definitely a very weak effort on your part. the prophet [sa] obviously did not imitate the christians or the jews and the Quran is clearly expressive in its own unique tenets and neither the jews not the christians can say that Adam [as] served God in their religion or that the way they take God is the way Islam does [Jews say God is exclusive to them because of their blood while Chistians say God is in three parts yet single when it will be impossible to imagine the Image of the 3 when 1]. no uncle of the prophet [sa] was his successor. the core tenets of Islam serve muslims community members, even beyond because in reality Islam is an 'advise', restricting sincere muslims against evil while encouraging him/her to do good and at the same time inviting as messenger of the "messenger of God' the non muslims to iIslam and living life worthy of emulation through God consciousness. ISIS and the like do not represent true Islam but evil doers pretending to be flag bearer of Islam. in fact they are what we call khawarij.

[@allenstroud7064]

+Abbass Hamzah "laughable and definitely a very weak effort on my part". ...That's a pretty strong position you have taken. Everything I have learned about the Quran, and Muslims, is taken from the same sources available to the entire world. Do you question any of the following statements: (1.) Muhammad was born in AD 570, (2.) At age 40, in AD 610, Muhammad received his first "vision"; and I am unaware of any witnesses to that event. (3.) At that time in history, only Judaism and Christianity presented the idea of a "single God - creator". The Arab world was generally Pantheistic until Muhammad adopted a monotheistic ideology, (That was his greatest contribution). (4.) Then from AD 622, (after the Hegira), Muhammad "force-fed" his ideology to his neighboring Arab tribes until his death in AD 632. (That was not a good thing), (5.) The "physical" Quran you have today did not exist until after Muhammad's death. (6.) Mumammad did not designate a Successor (Caliph). He had no sons, only daughters, and the question of a legitimate "bloodline" successor quickly became a serious division, or issue, which remains in effect today. (7.) Judaism's ruling authority was bloodline related, much as Islam claims to be today. If you would study the Jewish religion, you would learn that God made an agreement with Abraham 2600 years before Islam was conceived by Muhammad in AD 610. (And the Jewish religion possesses ancient documents to support that claim). If you are a Muslim. I would like to ask you this question: How do Muslims know anything about Abraham? This is not a trick question, but I know of only three ways in which any Muslim can gain access to historical knowledge about Abraham. (four ways if you count any divine intervention by the God of Abraham, outside that of Muhammad's claims). If interested, I will present them all to you. I have read the Quran (English version), but I do not read Arabic. What English version of the Quran should I be reading, if I want to understand true Islam. I don't understand Arabic. And lastly, how would you translate your word, "khawarij" into English ? Is "Malay" accurate?

[@lionabbass]

+Allen Stroud so who was a witness to when Moses [as] heard the voice of God through the burning bush or when angel Gabriel appeared to Mary? the one who experienced it related the story. Moses related his experience. Mary elated her experience. Muhammad [sa] related his. incidentally, Moses when alone, leaving his wife behind. Muhammad [sa] did exactly that. if you didn't complain about Moses event, why are you questioning Muhammad's experience or did the God Almighty Who has the Absolute Right to appoint His Elect told you any child of Israel no prophet will eve come from the other branch of the house of Ibrahim [as]? is it your argument that monotheistic concept began with the children of Israel and do you know the first child or children of Israel and who was Israel? before Israel the father of children of Israel, could you tell me if 'single God Creator' was never known among mankind? i wonder if you think Adam [as] the first man who God says He created with His Own Hands was not aware of sing God Creator that all worship and obedience belong to? why do you think the people were perished with the rain that fell in the time of prophet Noah [as] except that they worshiped idols satan agitated them to make after pious men that passed generations before? how about the faith of Ibrahim who came long before the grandfather of the children of Israel, if it was not a single God Creator? i wonder why you think he is nicknamed '"'the father of 'faith''?" even the children in spite of the many miracles, the mere prolonged absent of Moses, they began to worship idol. do you know the name they call that their idolatry God because they must have given it a proper name if they went to far to fashion it with expensive metal? maybe they called it Yahweh. no, then you have to prove this since Yahweh is the Name they worshiped before they became idolaters. every society believe there is a single God Creator. arabs might have been pagans, they were aware of this fact and that their father Ibrahim [as] used to believe in Unseen single God Creator which they never forgot even in their pantheism. you can tell me that arabs stated out as pagans, if Ismail [as] their father was never an idolater because as first child of Ibrahim [as], experiencing the circumcision with his father, it will be natural that he had a 14 year monotheistic lecture before he left [we do not believe that the command of sarah got him out of the family. i am a father, and there is no wife worth it that i get rid of my son and God is not evil to deprive son the love of father because of evil stepmother].

[@lionabbass]

+Allen Stroud force feeding? how do you come to that if he [as] arrived in Madina and formed a union of 3 communities where in some situation like defense of the city against foreign invasion they act as one and in other situation like religious laws and ruling, the jews had theirs different from the muslims. maybe you should be more honest because at the end of the day the audience will know about you. if the holy prophet [sa] did not force the jews in Madina or the pagans in this city, does it make sense that his focus is to force the far away pagan tribes when it will be more efficient to start from the ones in front of him [sa]? to support my argument here which will weaken your statement the more is that no action was taken against the jews except after they disrespect a muslim woman and killed the muslim man that came to he aid. maakan pagans brought the war to Badr in the second year of Hijra in the month of ramadhan. if in court of law, the one that traveled longer distance will be declared the aggressor. and the maakans were clearly that. i doubt if you knew that he [sa] while was in Makka before Hijra went to Taif, seeking asylum or support, the very tribe that was part of battle of Hunain, upon victory of Makkah. did he [sa] force feed them so much so that they came with others to fight him just outside of Valley of Makkah? there is nothing called 'physical Quran' by anyone with true knowledge of what Muslims call Quran. Quran is 'word sounded out, in recitation'. you may mean musaf. Musaf is not Quran, though it is the written down Quran. i don't have to have 'physical Quran' to be able to recite. the prophet [sa] did not have physical Quran and he [sa] Quran recited. alphabets, words are developed in every language and arabic is not an exception, get each society has communication in their language prior to developing the alphabets. no one eve wrote except that he vocalized silently or audibly first. the 2nd verse of chapter 2 says that the Quran is Kitab before the death of the prophet [sa] and i dont know what your point is here. God Almighty Allah does what He determines to do. so the prophet [sa] not appointing a successor in spite of commanding Abu Bakr [ra] to lead the salat even when Umar [ra] already began it and demanding that all doors from houses leading directly be sealed except that of Abu Bakr [ra], the smooth transition from caliph to the next until the 4th that was Ali bin Abitalib [ra] took place. that by itself is a miracle because Ali [ra] was not a shy man and will not be silent to let evil take place in from of him 3 times without speaking out and still kept quite when they were all dead and gone. every act is by providence especially when it affects the musli ummah.

[@lionabbass]

+Allen Stroud Islam is not a bloodline thing. you have to independently accept it or you are not better than those following family tradition. the shia are against what Ali [ra] and his family stood for; Umar [ra] married the daughter of the very same Ali [ra] in his lifetime. family of the prophet [sa] as a whole continued to give their daughters to the sons of Uthman [ra]. the families of Umar and Abu Bakr [ra] continued to give their daughters to the sons of the family of the prophet [sa]. finally, the prophet [sa] had 2 sons and he was fondly nicked "Abu Kassim". you might might meant that no son survived him [sa]. but not but 1 daughter survived him [sa] and she was the first to die, mere six months after him [sa]. if you went to the family history because of shia situation, my response above is sufficient i hope showing the shia has no foot to stand on the position he takes which is different from the position of Ali and his family about Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman [ra] whose families they continued to intermarry with and indeed named their sons and daughters after the events they get stuck on. i know about judaism and i hangout with rabbis in new york city. i go to their sedah. remember i have not said my attorneys. no jew worth the name can say Islam is not monotheistic or when we say it is the religion of Adam [as], Noah [as] his heirs after him, etc [since you have no clue about prophets Hud and Salih] before Ibrahim, definitely the religion of Ibrahim [as] will say no, they practiced judaism or no, they didn't have a common religion. remember that bloodline is not a religion but a tradition and nowhere or no time did God say to any prophet [as] that bloodline or tradition of judaism is the religion He commanded on Moses [as[ or earlier or later prophet [as]. if you know where judaism is declared by God as religion from Him, quote it and let the whole world know. you already know about Islam because in chapter 5 verse 3 Allah The Almighty says on the day of Arafat in the Hajj of the Prophet [sa] that Islam is chosen as the religion to follow. before anything jewish or their forebear, Ismail [as] the only son of Ibrahim [as] was with him when the covenant was made]. it is natural to say if God didnt have reason to reject Ismail [as] before the birth of other children and God didnt say don't circumcise him along with you, oh Ibrahim [as], then there is no reason to develop an awkward idea like the one jews strewn together raising the younger Isiaq [as] over his persevering brother. if it is Ibrahim [as] that God made agreement with, what role has sarah on the matter to the extend that she forced God and His Friend Ibrahim [as] to do what even you a fake believer will not do to your son. how is that a thing honorable when God never is unjust? i submit to you that the concept of slaughter of Isaac is a false concept for many reason, including some from the bible considering that the boss lady should not have let her son out of her sight and will throw Ishmael under the bus without a second thought. remember Jeremiah saying the OT is corrupt?

[@allenstroud7064]

I hear a lot of people stating conflicting opinions about history. I won't bother giving my understanding of history. Do your own study and homework. FIND the truth!

[@prabinshiwakoti2125]

I only need 1 lead for my studies. When they expanded, the weapons they used, where was it made?

[@MohamedAhmed-eg3mh]

The history of Islam is very known..Islam isn't Judaism or Christianity ..all conspiracy theories are crazy and false

[@MohamedAhmed-eg3mh]

Ibn ishak wrote a biography of the prophet 100 hundred years later..ibn ishak were born 74 years after the prophet's death ..ibn ishak biography has a lot of hadith which is a sacred text

[@MohamedAhmed-eg3mh]

@James Wright haha a christian is talking ..You believe in Moses while there is no historical evidence he ever existed or that there were Israelites in Egypt..the existence of Jesus is also very doubtful and alot of historians believed he's a myth ..the oldest manuscripts of the 4 gospels you use is back to the 4th century..we have manuscripts of the Quran which is back very shortly after the prophet's death pbuh

[@MohamedAhmed-eg3mh]

@James Wright Don't talk about datable history and archaeology when you're Christian..that's very embarrassing for you

[@Dan-zz4jb]

This lecture says more about how Islam didn't begin than how it did...

[@Vebinz]

he is putting forward a thesis based on interpretations of early evidence. That's what historians do, you know. Or how did you think all that knowledge in history books came about if not through the same process.

[@ambassadorkees]

Well, his thesis about "same God" and "only one set of equal believers" is dismantled by his very source. Qur'an Sura 9:29 and 98:6 should be enough, but there is much, much more. corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=98&verse=6

[@zorizad7951]

@@ambassadorkees there are too many nonsense in this video.

[@sohaibelazzouzi6553]

@Azazel Nicholas fyi, what is left from jews in north Africa when they are praying in arabic they pray to Allah (i am speaking about small, routine prayers like may Allah help you or may Allah be with u etc.) Also, in Egypt where 10% of the population is Christian, Christians also use the same prayers : may Allah help you and may Allah cure u etc. I am Muslim, i dont agree with all this professor said, and i didnt like the last 2 min or so when he started speaking about what muslims should or shouldnt do ... but it was quite an interesting lecture and it actually opened my mind toward new interpretation of our own tradition. Salam

[@anthonypalo8191]

@@sohaibelazzouzi6553 Allah is a Proper noun, the specific name of your God Allah, allah with the small a is a common arabic noun meaning god.. this is what egyptian Christians you say are referring to. early muslims necause they are arabic just used the term allah and made it the specific name for their(your) god. if they(Christians) used another language (not arabic) it would be clear they are praying to God and not Allah. this is basic.

[@inquisitivemind007]

This is more shocking kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqrKl42Ofayea5Y

[@abusalah4914]

The Quran has a clear verse that is not subject to any scholarly review or interpretation regardless whether those who read it are Moderates, or extremists that defines the guidelines or framework for Muslims dealing with other non Muslims community. It says for those non Muslims who did not engage in military aggression ( picked arms to fight you), did not expell you from your homes, did not aid other in such aggression, you (the Muslims) must not only treat them with equity and fairness, but be extra kind. I used the word extra because Allah used a term called " Birr" in Arabic that term is heavily emphasized in how a person how to treat his or her parents. That verse is in chapter 60 verse 7. All others verses that spoke of harnessing the military efforts to be aggressive and do fight has a historical context to them. You ought to remember that Muslims during Muhammad's era were subjected to numerous attacks, at more than one occasion they nearly became extinct.

[@mohamed__swidan]

Amazing effort and interpretation, but I don't understand how Dr. Donner's view of early Islam as the revival movement of monotheism which included jews and christians who were "rightly monotheist" contradicts with the traditional narrative? I am a muslim and what he introduce is what I already know from the traditional narrative.

[@mohamed__swidan]

@user-rf8ts2he2g I agree, but my question arose after he said in the video that his findings contradicts the traditional narrative. I believe what his findings actually contradicts is that common western view and knowledge about early Islam as a separate new arab religion that has no links with the already existing monotheistic religions in Arabia

[@eelco8800]

Thank you. I'm glad to get educated in this accessible way. to learn how the origins of islam were very different from what islam became later and is now.

[@richardwendling4030]

12:28 The volume spikes, I had a feeling there was a problem with his mic...Watch out iof wearing headphones or watching late with speakers...

[@ahmadhaki9500]

Richard Wendling thank you

[@inquisitivemind007]

This is more shocking kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqrKl42Ofayea5Y

[@korikrali]

In a nutshell, we Muslims believe that 'Islam' did not start with Mohammad (PBUH). HE was the last prophet of Islam. Islam started with ADAM (beleif in ONE God) and then different prophets and messengers were sent to bring people back to the message when they had diverted. Some of them had been given the Book. ie Moses (PBUH), Jeseus (PBUH) and finally Mohammed (PBUH). All needed updating and it was perfected when the prophethood was sealed (NO more prophets/Messengers) would come. God Almighty says in the Quran that HE would make sure that HIS last words to mankind are preserved and no changes whatsoever are made. MAybe thats why the Quran has been preserved and kept in its original language and Millions of people can recite it by heart.

[@AllaahuAkbar60]

Bismillah Hir rahman nir raheem Always begin your day with Fajr prayer and Ayat AL KURSI. READ QURAN EVERYDAY AND NEVER IGNORE YOUR FIVE DAILY PRAYERS

[@rubbersole79]

Topic begins around 10:30 15:30 = Why we're watching this video.

[@fernforwood3989]

rubbersole Thank you! ‘Preciate ya!

[@inquisitivemind007]

This is more shocking kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqrKl42Ofayea5Y

[@tlpcompany3688]

I have to correct the professor's mistake or maybe he didn't know at the time but there are written pieces of parchment from the time of the Prophet that are available you can look them up. About his companions, the scholars of the early times collected the biggest biography on more than 10 000 Companions of the prophet all authenticated through the science of narrators also created by the early scholars of Islam to know the difference between false narrations and authentic ones which is a deep subject and understandable if someone wouldn't know about it and partly because most of this is in Arabic. But most importantly we have the Hadiths which come in both weak narrations and strong (authentic) narrations and in between, which also is being preserved by the science of narrators (ilmul rijaal) and the science of hadith (ilmul hadith). We have clear records of the prophet about what he ate what he did how he sat how he spoke how he married who he married why he did certain things how he prayed how he acted etc ... . We know more about Muhammad SAW then all prophets combined and i would even go further and say we know more about him then all influential people combined

[@tlpcompany3688]

and he also said that those hadiths were written down a couple of hundred years after which to be honest is a hell of a mistake and one prominent Shaykh in the US talked about this named Uthman Ibn Farooq a scholar of hadith. There are in the first 60 years already written works like The Sahifa Of Hammam bin Munabbih and then The Musannaf of `Abd al-Razzaq al-San`ani: in the first century Hijrih Calendar and then the Muwatta of imam Malik at mid-second century and then the Musannaf of Ibn Jurayj and many more after that so it did not take a couple of hundred years.

[@tlpcompany3688]

and to suggest that we can't take Muslim sources for their religion is ridiculous because we would have no history because we take Greek History from the Greeks and the Roman history from the Romans and so on.

[@jimagnew1643]

AI HAVE NOTICED WHEN THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO HERE THE SUBJECT, THEY TURN THE VOLUME DOWN WHERE YOU CAN'T HERE IT ON A SMART PHONE, I WISH PHONES HAD AMPLIFIERS, I HAVE MY PHONE IN A BIG CERAMIC BOWL, AND IT HELPS SOME.

[@atkgrl]

Hear

[@residentgrey]

There is no conspiracy. It is just how it happened to be, and it was later adjusted so there is nothing there but happenstance.

[@sginrummy88]

... just put some headphones on

[@naia1362]

You can turn up your volume or wear earphones lmao

[@Joezeph592]

The early Arabs had an Oral culture; they would memorize facts and not write it down. So it's understandable that one would not find early records of the Quran; which was kept in the mind and hearts of man.

[@m1nty99]

Chinese whispers, or in this case, Arabic whispers

[@lotfibouhedjeur9897]

The early Arabs may've not been keen on writing but what about all the learned cities and communities around them? How come something allegedly so spectacular went unnoticed by all these neighbors for two centuries?

[@triggerwarning2982]

Yet you say the Bible is untrustworthy? C’mon now. Doesn’t the Quran say something about judging with even scales?

[@lotfibouhedjeur9897]

@@triggerwarning2982 Both the Quran and the Bible suck at equal measure from a historical perspective.

[@lotfibouhedjeur9897]

@Miss O’Genist Yet a documentary desert that spans two centuries after the death of the prophet...

[@thornil2231]

Why Islam? I like the answer of Paul Freedman from Yale: "Because it was easy for nomads, there was no clergy, all you need is a book and a prayer rug." (I paraphrased, please check it out for the full explanation)

[@erkanbolat]

Everybody here wasting their breath. Just buy a Quran and read it from beginning to end. Don’t waste your time with the comments here. I assure you will learn what the islam is better than reading people’s comments who are trying to prove they are right.

[@kumarankush8615]

Quran 9:5 Quran 78:30-36 Certainly the best parts of quran.

[@jamesgabriel7132]

ya when someone disagree with quran, u blame people for not understanding arabic, blame incomplete translation, then u encourage people to read quran because u claim it's a simple book, then u back track accussing people don't understand it, that they have to consult an imam, they have to get a diploma to study it. which is which? is it a simple book or a complicated book??

[@erkanbolat]

@@jamesgabriel7132 read it from beginning to end and then come back if you have question on your mind ask me your questions. but first read it whole.

[@erkanbolat]

@@jamesgabriel7132 www.dailymotion.com/video/x6chi6i here is a good series about first years of islam. watch it before and have a better understanding about what how first muslim lived and how islam born.

[@erkanbolat]

@@kumarankush8615 Quran 60:8 Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. "لَّا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ - 60:8"

[@amans51054]

Didn't watch the whole thing.. I am not muslim or Christian But I feel any religion that says "this faith is the only way" is gonna have issues. Christian killed non Christian in name of Christ by calling them witches or pagans or whatever Muslims killed in name of Allah by calling them "kafirs" non believer. Both religion did this to increase the numbers Outsider looking in.. both faith look like cousin religion to me..

[@drzakir123]

what about the suhdras and untouchables of Hinduism.about 200 million of these ppl living lives worse than animal.

[@amans51054]

drzakir123 what about em this video didn't talk about them.. but what you say is not wrong that should be changed/not right..

[@RonJohn63]

Aman S /both faith look like cousin religion to me../ Because... they *are* cousin religions. I think Dr. Donner even used that exact word.

[@boshirmh007]

Aman S judaism,christianity and islam are 3 siblings. did you not hear the scholor. you are saying all this because you did not watch the whole video. because of your arrogance, you will remain ignorant for life.

[@carolineleiden]

Aman S Christians killed eachother, yes. But that was hundreds of years ago. We kind of learned since then that was not the best way to handle our differences. In Islam, Sunni are killing Shia and vice versa (and some jews and christians) as we speak. That is the big difference. Christians and muslims are not "just as bad". Very few witches are being burned on Vatican Square these days, but ISIS is actually crucifying people on a daily basis. Not to mention the burning and beheading they so seem to enjoy.

[@yussufmwinyi4604]

1:52 there is an early historical recorded account from the ibadhi sect, who branched out of the mainstream first and it was by the prophet's companions. This was before 50yrs unlike the sources quoted relying on sunni traditions which came later

[@kakahass]

So Islam is a fine tuning of the previous religions rather than a separate endeavor

[@salmykhan9319]

Ppl change scriptures according to their desires islam is the last nd correct narration of all religions specially abrahami

[@aldewise]

I love the religion of peace, Islam

[@Vikingshop]

There is no peace in islam. When Mohammad moved from Mecca to Medina he became a grusome warlord who spared no critique, jew or infidel. And some human beings, anno 2014, unbelievably still follow this mans example..! Sad.

[@gustavogonzalez8582]

How the fuck is Islam the religion of peace?

[@aldewise]

because it the religion of me and my family and we are so peaceful

[@gustavogonzalez8582]

Islam is a fraud and evil religion made by the pagan, also evil roman catholic church.

[@aldewise]

ur ideas bro !!!

[@jefferywyss8740]

Interesting to see how initially islam expanded because there was an ambiguity but then once the muslim rulers started to build a working empire, they needed to build a well defined religion to hold it up. And that is when they drew clear cut lines between true muslims and Christians and Jews who, when already in muslim territories had to submit and became second class citizens, and not needed to be conquered with violence.

[@ClemensReinkeProductions]

Excellent! One question: Donner mentions archaeological evidence of old churches featuring both an apse toward the East used for Christian worship, and a prayer niche in the South wall for Muslims to prayer toward their holy city. I wonder if Donner is familiar with Dan Gibson research that seems to show that the early believers did not pray to Mecca but with high degree of likelihood toward Petra. Gibson even proposes that Muhammad and the early believers started in Petra, not Mecca. I wonder what Donner thinks about Gibson’s research?

[@williammcintyre1054]

They are now finding that what is considered Mecca today is probably not the true site of Mecca

[@hamza.r4319]

The quran and the hadiths says that he started at mecca, also it was 14 hundred years ago when they built these mosques if so as you say that there are some mosques werent pointing to Jerusalem then it would be because they didnt have that good geographicalism or anything like that, And some mosques acually point to Jerusalem but they also cross Petra and thats somehow irrelavent, another thing is acually the trading problem that people always point out, There are quit alot of proofs that exists in other places such as old Emirates cities or other cities that exists even further down to yemen or oman, But as we say that mecca was a holy place that guides tgousand sof people there which means it was a larg trading centre, also not to forget that his grave, mosque and his house were at mecca or madina also there is also nearly all the places that were mintioned about muhammad and where he is were in mecca or madina, Sorry of there is any gramatical or spelling mistakes english isnt my first language and thank you, Good bye ,salam!

[@MutazAlhami]

I invite those interested in the subject to search for themselves. This speaker mixes between the Islamic state that protects non-Muslims with the Islamic religion as a religion of teachings. Islamic teachings were completed in the life of the Prophet, and because this man does not believe in Islam, he called it a movement and did not call it a religion That is why he considers the historical events in the time of Muslim leaders to be an extension of Islam With much ignorance, he tries to mislead the listener with a set of theories that are lies

[@PlebstersPictionary]

All religions are lies, so who cares.

[@cool-cj7pl]

Islam is a Christian heretic cult. Case closed.

[@MutazAlhami]

@@PlebstersPictionary if you don’t care then why you are here in the first place!!

[@harrycelik]

Islam is the best

[@ihamdym8685]

I love how he really knows how to pronounce Arabic words.

[@l0_0l45]

@RedEyeOfJupiter 2121 And forbids use of the brain to question islam, and the reward is death. Kinda bad for a god who is so arrogant.

[@l0_0l45]

@RedEyeOfJupiter 2121 Actually it tells it believers to study and reflect on god's "creation". The problem is that we don't know if anything is "created" or not, so taddabur and taffakur seems like a waste of time till someone comes up with a definite answer to any link between creation and existence. The islamic god allah seems to break that rule, and allegedly exists without being created, so does existence mean different things to different people? Seems like what to "study and reflect" was never clear. So lets assume I study and reflect on tentacle porn. Am I then on the path to Pursuit of Knowledge and Truth? Also the wrong thing about the knowledge claim is that Allah is unobservable, so how can anyone including the rotting body of mohammed observe it? And who sets the standard for truth when the said "knowledge" is just belief without evidence, appropriately called "faith".

[@l0_0l45]

@RedEyeOfJupiter 2121 _"Islam also challenge those who disparage against Islam and what it stands for"_ Correction: Since allah can't defend himself, partly because he is imaginary, you muslims defend him from the danger that his non existence may be realized by muslims. _"That if what is true and righteous & paradise is yours"_ Comment: First the existence of paradise must be established. Else this is a meaningless statement. Also a "true" by the standard of something that does not exist? Very silly. Righteous to whom? Fellow man or sky daddy? Or allah's limp dick? _"Then why don't you embrace death"?_ Short for "kill yourself". Hey, I am here to stay. Besides we both go to the same place when we die, and that is below the soil on this tiny planet earth. By the way mohammed is rotting there too. Worms ate his testicles. Perhaps you can demonstrate the existence of paradise by killing your righteous self and come back to life and show me god. Perhaps then I will follow your advice then.

[@Merlinemryys]

Sound needs to be at least doubled.

[@hanidew05]

Prophet Muhammad came after all the other prophets, Adam, Noah, Abrahim,Moses, Jesus, etc..but the way this historian speaks about him is as though this is the first time in history he heard God sent a revelation to his messengers.

[@syedmammar1]

Outstanding analysis!!

[@inquisitivemind007]

This is more shocking kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqrKl42Ofayea5Y

[@daverandle3575]

I love the comment section for showing us how little understanding they have, but also how much the know🤦‍♂️

[@solomonreal1977]

If what you say is true, why then do you not marry the comment section...?

[@uniformityofnature1488]

lol I have Muslim friends and yes they are clueless

[@majeedm689]

Was the Prophet of Islam an Atheist? Yes the heading will certainly raise some eyebrows but bear with me and please be open minded as I present to you an unconventional but certainly probable exposition on Muhammed, the final Prophet. According to Muslims, Muhammed was a 7th century Arab who received revelations from God through an angel intermediary over a period of 23 years, thus forming the basis of the Quran - a scripture containing all the revelations. But this is where we run into problems. When you open the Quran and read these supposed revelations (from an ALL knowing powerful God) you discover the following irregularities and discrepancies. 1.Verses originating from myths and legends (Syriac Legend of Alexander and The 7 Sleepers of Ephesus ) 2. Verses originating from rejected apocryphal biblical and gnostic sources (The Infancy Gospel of Thomas) 3. Verses lifted straight from the bible (Universe created in 6 days, Camel through the Eye of a needle) 4. Verses that seem to serve the personal whims and fancies of Muhammed (who he can marry, which wife he can spend more time with etc). 5. Verses that keeps repeating immoral intercouse with married female captives.(4:24, 23:1, 70:29, 33:50 etc) 6. Verses that undermines the status of women. (beat them, testimony is worth less than than that of a man, 4 months seclusion) 7. Verses that are confusing and strange (3.7 basically says the entire Qur'an is unclear and if try to understand it you have a disease. 3:81) 8. Verses that places a bizarre emphasis on sexual pleasure for men (and Jinn) in the afterlife (55:56). 9. Verses that provide zero context or explanation (Who is Abu Lahab?) 10. Verses that repeatedly confirm the inspiration, preservation, authority and authenticity of the 7th century bible even though Muslims insist it's been corrupted from the 1st century (3.3, 5:47, 7:157 etc) 11. Verses that are completely wrong on how it depicts science, biology and cosmology. (All alleged scientific "miracles" can be easily refuted using Quran itself) 12. Verses that challenge the reader to its Divinity even though the same challenge can be applied to any book in history. 13. Verses mostly end with a threat of punishment or humiliation for the individual who doesn't submit. 14. Verses that practically copy and paste it's laws from the Jewish Talmud and other scriptures. 15. Verses that has nothing new to say so just repeats the same thing over and over again. 16. Verses that quote biblical characters as if they're 7th century Arabs. 17. Verses that are contradictory (no compulsion in religion vs fight those that those who don't believe) 18. Verses that start and end abruptly, arranged haphazardly and gives no context. 19. Verses that have zero benefit for mankind and if removed affects nothing. 20. Verses that are different to other versions of Qur'an so not perfectly preserved (Hafs vs Warsh) .....and many more. Looking at these issues objectively - one thing becomes absolutely clear - the Quran could NOT have come from an All Knowing and Perfect Divine Source but rather a human/s making standard fallable errors, taking many years to perfect it, but still falling short. >>>So what type of human scribe is this? If this author believed in some kind of Deity or Higher Power that judged him according to his actions, he would NOT be as brazen, confident, arrogant, shameless, narcissistic, fearless and determined enough to fabricate this entire verse revelation fallacy. He'll be far too afraid of the repercussions, yes? Therefore the ONLY conclusion that one can draw is that the author/s of the Quran MUST have been an atheist or at the very least agnostic with zero accountability or culpability for his elaborate campaign.( Notice how the Quran keeps saying - "there is no blame on you" for immoral verses such as 23:1-6, 33:50 and 70:29-30. >>>Now why is the Qur'an essentially a book that implores people to believe in a God that he personally did not believe in? Muhammed noticed one thing that with the Jews, Christians and Pagans and all other groups, that motivated his campaign. The ONLY thing guaranteed to get a large amount of people to follow a single cause is through belief in some type of supernatural Deity that can't be seen or heard. It's the belief/faith that He/It is there that matters. And then proceed to make up countless promises of eternal bliss if you submit to this Deity or a torturous eternal punishment if you don't. How do you think the Christian missionaries managed to spread a complex 3in1 belief that no one understands so rapidly? >>>What was his end game - if not to begin a new religion? Belief in "Allah" is just the deception. The ultimate goal was subjugation and control to get people to submit to your will on the pretext of being a Prophet where you have access to vast amounts of wealth (jizya) and assets (war booty) and copious amounts of sex slaves but do it on the pretext of a Divine instruction. This is what "Allah wants" but ultimately it's me who gets it. (His own child bride Ayesha even declared - your "Lord" rushes to fulfill your desires). Wow. Over the next next few hundred years Muhammads status was honed, shaped manipulated and fabricated into the "best of creations" where he has now achieved an almost God like status, occupying a position closer to your average Muslim than his/her own mother. I'd say he was something of a 7th century religious cult leader many of whom typically still practise their "craft" today.

[@Southslide63]

Islam began since the beginning of Creation. Whoever doesn't believe in life after death read the Quran and be enlightened. I am a revert and this is the greatest High I have ever felt in my life. Allahu Akbar.

[@ChrisHolman]

Burhan the Somali You are lying. I have read the Koran and found it wanting. The latter part of the Koran commands muslims to fight unbelievers until they pay the Jizya and feel themselves subdued.

[@alicat4947]

Chris Holman Many 'reverts' on the youtubes have not even read the entire Quran BEFORE converting! It's pathetic to witness.

[@Tucknrollgrampa]

Yeah, you're not the first to convert to something and feel that. Seems quite natural for people. People tend to join cults, one way or another

[@javaranova2164]

Stupid moron. Can't you write thoughtfully, intelligently and rationally??? You lack of rationale is an insult to Islam.

[@javaranova2164]

"Kill the non-believers where you find them" "When you meet the unbelievers smite (Slit their throats) their necks"

[@miguelsureda9762]

Tsunami of ex muslims on the net. Coming out of the closet massively.

[@davidn7508]

Miguel Sureda Islam Is built of Christianity They are both false

[@bartholomewtott3812]

He's suggesting islam spread peacefully. Thats absurd

[@stephenconnolly1830]

Bartholomew Tott - apart from the famous battles, Islam spread without force among the ordinary people of the conquered areas - this is well known. In fact, conversion was not promoted, particularly during the Umayyad period and beyond, because the taxation due on non-Muslim citizens reduced on their conversion to Islam which the Islamic State did not want. In the early years for some considerable time the Muslim conquerers actually lived apart from the non-Muslim communities (in their own encampments) and represented a tiny proportion of the overall population. Thus it is far more realistic to project that the spread of Islam was peaceful and occurred without force.

[@lateefahs6067]

i greet you peacefully. i remember GOD and thank GOD. i am an American Muslim woman who converted to Islam back in 1983. my first husband was raised Catholic and my deceased brother's wife was raised Catholic. Although the pope, pope Francis, has done things for the poor and oppressed, he needs to stop lying about GOD. Pope Francis must admit that GOD is not one of three, nor is GOD three in one. GOD Is The ONE and only GOD; GOD Is The Creator, GOD Is Alive and GOD never dies. GOD is not a "father". I think that the Pope and others well know who a father is. Even if the parents of a child were not married, still people understand that something from a man went into a woman, and then GOD Made the child grow in the mother and then the baby came out, and lived, and grew. It is very important that children know who their father is, and to not call priests "father". GOD never referred to Himself as "father". As for the other two ones that people said were in the group of three, that they spoke of, i would like to address the subject of "Jesus, and who is Jesus?". Jesus was a human man who GOD Formed in the womb of Mary without Mary having sexual relations with any man, and she was not married. Hence the beginning of Jesus's growth inside of Mary's womb was not typical. it was a miracle Created by GOD only. Jesus is a man who had a mother, Mary, and no father. However, Adam had no mother or father. Adam was still a human, as Jesus was a human, and you and i are humans. as for the third one that some claimed were in a group of three, this one was called "the holy spirit". GOD Well Knows what people were really referring to when they spoke of "witnessing" a "holy spirit". It might have been an angel. It might have been a genie. Not all genies were devils, but it might have been a devil genie. it might have been just a good feeling that the person felt and they saw nothing. Jesus, priests, angels and genies all do not hear everything. GOD, however, Hears every word spoken by all humans, angels and genies, even if they speak at the same time. In addition know that GOD Comprehends the words spoken by all the people and what they were meaning and implying. We do not see GOD while alive now, however GOD Is With us always, and GOD never sleeps nor does GOD become unaware. Pope Francis must tell the people to only pray to GOD, and not to Jesus. Pope Francis must tell the people to stop confessing sins to priests, and instead he should tell the people what the sins are, urge people not to sin, tell people how to repent of sins, and tell people that only GOD Forgives sins if humans commit sins. i ask GOD humbly that this article does reach Pope Francis. GOD Blessed us. GOD Is Ever Loving and Caring. jocelyn poesnecker facebook: Jocelyn Sophia, Global University, West Philly

[@idarusskie]

From the new testament in the lords prayer god is called... "our father which art in heaven". so yes god is our heavenly father. a genie ? really?

[@denisepaul263]

When will you understand, that the islamic God is not the God of the christians, the jesus found in the coran is not the same jesus as in the bible. Stop comparing. Muslims, continue to believe in your coran, let christians continue to believe in their bible. The conflict will b over.