Noah Samson Released Another Video About Me 👀

A response to Noah Samson's "The Vaush Effect".
Check out Xanderhal's response video: • Noah Samsen Doubles Do...
🔴 Website - www.vaush.gg/
💵 Patreon - / vaush
🌟 Other Socials 🌟
⭐️ Main Channel - / @vaush
🐦 Twitter - / vaushv
👾 Twitch - / vaushvidya
📸 Instagram - / vaushv
🔵 Facebook - / vaushvidya
🎵 TikTok - / vaushvidya
🎙Podcast - anchor.fm/vaush
#Vaush #VaushPit

[@KingsandGenerals]

When I say something, it is critique, when you say something, it is bullying.

[@IMatchoNation]

Harassment for me, but not for thee...

[@Yor_gamma_ix_bae]

Isn’t this what people say about destiny ?

[@andrewgeary9749]

one of my favorite history channels being on the right side of history?????

[@HCosta1001]

So much of this is just people pretending any comment that doesn't agree with them is harassment...

[@stardust3176]

Basically lmfao

[@windlebee9440]

Fortress arc off to a challenging start.

[@defaultlogos2976]

Every fortress needs a test run every now and then

[@stardust3176]

These hoes trying to keep us from our wall building lmao

[@rosenrot6871]

@Russian Waifu Ironic vaushite or unironic VDS?

[@alvinanis3006]

@Russian Waifu With a username like that (Ik you hate watcher) you shouldn't be speaking about the age of consent

[@windlebee9440]

@Russian Waifu raising the age of consent*, you mean.

[@Bentothethird]

"Harassment from Vaush fans-" (message from Vaush Moderator asking for evidence so they can be summarily executed from the community) (Moderator gets blocked) you gotta be kidding me, what else can we f***in do

[@manuelmialdea5127]

They just mean "fall in line" Oh boy, have the essayist been even shittier this last year.

[@ashtondean473]

When Kat said "I feel bad about the body shaming but also not really" is exactly what Vaush was talking about when he said that people justify harassing him by saying he's worse so he deserves it. smh.

[@asmylia9880]

Destiny: *[does negative stuff]* The internet: "Vaush it is then"

[@TheRepublic4]

Vaush Bad? (I liked this comment)

[@dgp2024]

what?

[@anoldsmellyunusedaccount]

Destiny is the guy people think Vaush is

[@nathanpapp432]

@@anoldsmellyunusedaccount Neither one are actually that bad, its the unhinged, cucked, twitter lefties that are the problem.

[@NoatheLAPTOPnerd01]

@@anoldsmellyunusedaccountdestiny is actually a brain dead a hole

[@titaniawallace4223]

noah samsen hearing two black women say "Vaush's community is more racist than all of Gamergate and also an entire rural white conservative township " and just... believing that... is so fucking funny lmao

[@andrewstar21]

Watching an hbomberguy video on like cultural Marxism has some absolutely disgusting examples of literal gamergate racism.. frankly Noah should be ashamed but isn't.. literally the only content he does is drama..

[@Sugarman96]

The next GamerGate is going to demolish him.

[@andrewstar21]

@@Sugarman96 and Noah will blame vaush lol

[@Ismael-kc3ry]

@@andrewstar21 I stared at this for 20 seconds thinking you were calling hbomberguy racist and I just couldn’t compute it

[@brianajaxwintor6023]

@@andrewstar21 I think Noah is just using his channel as a power fantasy to talk down to other men he sees as threatening because he isn't capable of confrontation irl. In Vaush's case it was really dumb.

[@R_AM02]

I'm a black trans lady, 19 (going to turn 20 in a little under 2 months). I grew up online. and I'm just gonna ramble for a bit about what pisses me off about stuff like this. I understood I was a girl as early as 6, but I didn't understand I was trans (or that I'd be ALLOWED to be trans until I was about 16-17. trying to figure things out in that environment, I got harassment, death threats, doxed, black-mailed, threatened in the most horrific ways possible. I had friends go missing, the police didn't file complaints when we called them, and the best case scenario was that they showed up later or were found unconscious in a ditch somewhere (and I'm not being hyperbolic. from a very young age I understood how much I was "worth" in the eyes of the society I grew up in, and it was a lot less than most. my opinions were worth less in class, if I got a single fact wrong (even if it didn't matter to the overall point) everything I said was dismissed, the casual racism and fragility I got from white adults, the constant threats, dehumanization fetishization and sexualization that came with being queer, the police ignoring us, constantly having to defend my rights to exist, etc. and it's not like this stuff went away, it never did, they just got quieter about, they hide it better, the southern strategized it. I know what people think of me and people like me just by the language they use and how passionately they hold onto that language. I heard the same language I dealt with from 8 years in the PF convo and that's why it sticks with me, why it repeats in my head over and over. because the black separatists weren't better than the white nationalist, they did all the same things, they believed the same stuff about us, and the used the same language. it was the same abuse with a single different target. I legit lost friends because they went out once and never came back, I stayed up late with people while they passed cause of this abuse. and if you wanna know about in person, I had friends who called me "not really black" because my family immigrated here from the Caribbean mostly, a fact that only came up when I mentioned black issues. full grown adults screaming at me because I said one thing they disagreed with, having to debate every politic position I held cause I was the most liberal person there. kids and adults openly referring to people as "sand [n-words]" in front of me, queers as mentally ill, calling for genocides of entire countries. people openly telling me from as young as 9 to end myself and treating me like a sex object. and this is the stuff I dealt with censored and said vaguely. I heard the same sanitized language championed and defended by PF for 2 and a half hours (I missed the first hour of the debate). I saw the same manipulative behavior from Kat during the drama, and I even had some of it directed at me for disagreeing with a woman in my own community. the idea what republicans are less racist, less bigoted, less problematic than Vaush is laughable to me. I have legit trauma tied to this crap and when Vaush points it out, he gets shit on for it. it pisses me off that I have to deal with and hear this crap. it's actually infuriating and it constantly triggers me because I hear that problematic language from them and then it's not that I have my own thoughts, it's that I'm a braindead Vaushite who can't think for themselves. every concern I have is reframed as "Vaush speaking through his sheep" and then videos like this vague post about the so called "harassment" that boils down to "I disagree with your take" and that can never actually be pointed to or reported. I'm so sick of the harassment, and the lies, and all that shit being defended. so anyway, that was my rant... I hope you enjoyed the video. and like, don't be hard on Kat or Noah (okie, a little hard on Noah). I know I have my problems, I'm trying to work through them, I'm in therapy, I have gender affirming care now and I'm gonna turn 20 (2 years older than I ever thought I'd be) I just wanted to rant and get it out. I'm doing a ton better than I was and while healing isn't linear, I'm improving most days. just don't think this is like, go harass them cause they caused it in any type of way. I'm just hurting and it opens the old wound. as for PF... I'm gonna be honest, when it comes to not harassing her, it's more of the rule than me actually caring what you do. I just... I honestly think she was more bad faith than Kat and Noah has been, and it hit harder. I think she's gotten worse over time and so yeah I hope you all have a wonderful day no matter when you view this and be well

[@krrr.4902]

I wish I could write about my stuff in such an honest and succinct way. I'm very sorry you went/are going through so much shit, I know what it's like. I'm old now and I was very, very lucky to be able to carve a little place in the world for me to rest in. I'm not even brave enough to wish "things get better", and I can only wish and work for other people to be AT LEAST as lucky as I was and have a welcoming micro environment because we can't really make significant positive changes in society fast enough for the good outcomes to impact us. All this is to say I completely agree with you. Online harassment is terrible, social media is awful in many ways and I don't believe we've learned how to manage the internet being a part of our lives in a completely healthy way but still; give me a fucking break... mean tweets are *NOT WORSE THAN VIOLENCE BIGOTRY AND POVERTY JESUS FUCKING CHRIST THESE PEOPLE*

[@RajShekhar-jy2zi]

Goodluck sis . I'm 19 too but You have seen a lot more than me .

[@R_AM02]

@@krrr.4902 yee and thank you

[@azazelaz999]

Stay up queen

[@R_AM02]

@@RajShekhar-jy2zi thanks, and I'm glad you haven't

[@Yal_Rathol]

noah seems to be implicitly cherrypicking. "you can't punch down to smaller creators like professor flowers, now here's a 15 minute talk on not punching up at larger creators like contrapoints, but also you can't punch sideways to older, more comparable creators who explicitly pick fights with you like kat blaque". it seems to be that his mentality is one of "anyone who is marginalized is automatically correct", which, no, they're not. if we can't have disagreements with people, what's the point of having diversity?

[@xXRickTrolledXx]

Fucking. This.

[@nackskott12]

He doesn't care about punching down or harrassment considering how he smeared Xanderhal, a much smaller creator, implying he was really racist and clipping him out of context.

[@Yal_Rathol]

@@nackskott12 can't speak on that, can only speak on what i saw in this video, and his wording gives me pause at several points. vaush makes an unspecified comment about racists fetishizing the race they hate, kat blaque responds with personal comments smearing vaush, "i won't say which of these is worse" with the implicit statement being that vaush's is worse. that's a blatant double standard and also clear cherrypicking. he also doesn't know what harassment is. harassment when you're a public figure is damn near impossible to prove, because any and all interactions with fans can be said to be harassment. calling it harassment when it's against you or from people you don't like is another double standard.

[@mr.OldNews]

@@nackskott12 well xanderhal is white so punching down is fine! (At least to Noah, that is)

[@sypherthe297th2]

There is a lot of that on the left these days. The facts don't matter. If someone is a minority, everyone else needs to shut up and uncritically parrot their take. Its rather sad and self-defeating but thats the wokescold mob for you.

[@user-up1op3kz9q]

“This is not a drama video” Wow that’s sure a cool disclaimer to need to have

[@ImaginaryMdA]

It's also another lie from Noah.

[@happyhour4670]

Vaush fans need it lolooo

[@CPSPD]

@@happyhour4670 ? Since when does this community hide the fact it’s engaging in drama. We know what this is.

[@rev0lve638]

@@happyhour4670 I have yet to encounter an Anti-Vausher with a response warranting more than 4 brain cells.

[@gabe_owner]

Indeed, I think a lot of things proceed via drama.

[@darkpandalord3844]

*HOT TAKE:* Ethnic cleansing is bad, actually. You may cancel me now.

[@reincarnatedwolfgod]

you are literally Hitler The fbi will be visiting you soon

[@delos2279]

Wow I can't believe you would harass Noah like that!

[@stardust3176]

Who knew the online left and the attack on titan fandom would have so much in common. Both are filled with ethnic cleansing apologists lmfao

[@VikingBadass94]

You dropped this king. *hands crown*

[@adverumthegreat4736]

Context?

[@lofiyobachi7495]

Remember comment section. Don't say anything mean about Noah. He might confuse your snappy comment for "harrassment". Don't want to continue this unproductive trend longer than it needs to be.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Just mentioning his name qualifies as assault in thirteen states.

[@stang9806]

god he's the worst about this. crybullies will always construe critique for harassment

[@jidk6565]

That both sounds like a him problem And is also sad because you're right... Fuck what is wrong with the online left

[@LordOfDhara]

@@jidk6565 debate lords. That's whats wrong with the online left. Yall need to go ouside.

[@alvinanis3006]

@@LordOfDhara Debate lords aren't and never were the problem. You can critique them using VALID arguments (unlike Noah) but to claim they're the single most problematic thing about the online left is silly. God we're so going back to the Gamergate era are we...

[@jackskellingtonsora]

The tweets he provided of "harassments" towards Contrapoints are not even harassment. They're people saying "he didn't defend the misogyny." Is it harassment to defend your points? This man is very dishonest.

[@ImaginaryMdA]

Good thing we know he'd never defend a point, so at least he's free from that type of harassment.

[@happyhour4670]

Recruiting thousands of people to dogpile one person and say the same thing is by definition harassment

[@MayvaAva]

You do know that, just because a message isn’t mean, that doesn’t mean it isn’t harassment if it’s done repeatedly by a large group of people I can get a little mob to follow my neighbor around with me and tell her that the flowers in her yard are nice, it would still be harassment (online and irl harassment are obviously different but I hope you get what I’m saying)

[@EE-gv9wt]

@@MayvaAva i mean yes you're right but when you're a large public figure i think the bar is higher. It's like following your neighbor around saying nice shit is harassment, but people following mitch mcconnell around the public spaces to tell him his budget proposal sucks isn't harassment even though there's a lot of people involved. I think most people didn't even think it was harassment when people got into the bathroom to protest kyrsten sinema and that's waaay worse than my mcconnell example

[@MayvaAva]

@@EE-gv9wt yea but, that’s where perspective comes in right? Like Noah and Contra are no Mitch McConnell, they aren’t politicians, they aren’t capable of making anything but social change, and given what they contribute as pretty cool fun lefty influencers (one a video essayist and one a commentary channel), the social changes they make are are good, Noah’s biggest crime was taking some shots at “debate bros”(I think he made some good points imo but I guess I can say that he could have presented it a lot better), and if I’m honest I don’t think contra did anything wrong, but pretending she did, she didn’t deserve the harassment? For that? I don’t think so.. Idk that’s how I see it anyway

[@LizStaples]

Also he claims Vaush is responsible for any dog piling he get while Noah is saying “Oh I just found out I have a responsibility with my own audience and will do better going forward” while putting out another hit piece is just so two faced.

[@Matt-ov1qp]

Another disingenuous hit piece. It would be another thing if the criticisms were valid but most are just bad faith clip snipes taken to a broader video essayist format. The implication that Vaush was bribing Noah when he was just being kind towards someone he thought made honest mistakes, the implication of Vaush's fans being vicious while essentially every comment Noah has in the video as an example is fine, etc. Meanwhile if I try to have a conversation on his latest video with anyone I am rather confident that person will dehumanize me to a caricature of what they think is a "debate bro" or a "white male."

[@ImaginaryMdA]

He never took any accountability for what he did to Xan, btw. He summarized the reaction as "mixed", doesn't do any introspection about what he got wrong, and then continues to whine about the mildest pushback.

[@l_ndonmusic]

Did you say… dog pilling..? 😏😏😏

[@XxCorvette1xX]

“Hit piece” what reality are you in bro

[@jlp6864]

@@l_ndonmusic more like horsepiling

[@TheRedArrowHD]

The oddest thing to me is that Noah is so in his head he thinks people replying to you on twitter is something mainly done by Vaush's community like Dream or kpop stan groups don't exist. Shit even Hasan managed to ratio Nicki Minaj

[@jlp6864]

right? it makes no sense to call it he vaush effect when thats just a toxic internet thing

[@narikobeilschmidt]

EXACTLY! kpop stans can be quite ruthless, i say this as a former jpop/kpop twitter user

[@ruefullysage]

you're literally doing what he's doing just with a little wider net. this isn't a fandom issue. it's not even really an online issue.

[@sorryifoldcomment8596]

@@ruefullysage What specifically are you referring to? What actions/behavior do you think we're talking about that is somehow unique to Vaush/Vaushites/whatever. We aren't talking about "fandoms," because that term includes a lot more than specific online communities, many of which can be in the same "fandom" while flinging toxic insults at each other. Saying "it's not an online issue" makes zero sense because we are literally talking about online behavior. The comment you are replying to is literally talking about people replying online. Remember, you have only witnessed less than 0.000001% of people online. There are thousands of communities, millions and millions of people interacting with each other and flinging shit. Just because you personally haven't seen something, doesn't mean it hasn't happened and isn't currently happening. _Kind of like someone only interacting with "leftists," and then claiming "the online left has been meaner to me than conservatives!!" When they haven't even interacted with the people they think are nicer. They have no clue what they're missing out on, no clue what people are saying and doing online, etc._ 🙄

[@ruefullysage]

@@sorryifoldcomment8596 gonna be honest. I'm not interested enough to read all of that.

[@ASolidSnack]

Believing you're right and defending yourself is wrong and manipulative if you're a "debate bro", otherwise it's noble and standing up to vile bullies who are trying to force you in line!

[@tobywood9156]

so true, how dare he defend himself when people _who are fascists or support nazis_ lie about him? smh what has the world come to

[@codyreed2693]

Are you going undercover in this criminal community Batman

[@thanman6584]

The "Debate bro' perjoritive is used by people who are insecure about their positions. And too weak to defend them. Weak af. Debates are good on any society.

[@jloiben12]

Noah: People shouldn’t be able to just lie. Also Noah: Just lies. ------ Noah: The main point in my original video critiquing Vaush was about Vaush’s treatment of PF. Noah in his talk with Vaush: Provides only one defense of this point, that Vaush is wrong to say that PF racially essentialized colonizers. Vaush provided two clips of PF doing this. Vaush provided a tweet of PF doing this (a tweet that Noah used in his original video and lied about). Noah in his talk with PS: Recognizes that PF racially essentializes colonizers which means that the only defense he provided to Vaush is objectively a lie. Noah in this video: Doesn’t defend anything he said in the original video or why anything he said was correct. ------- Noah: Vaush’s community harassed Contra. Also Noah: Only provides tweets that show Contra NOT being harassed. ------- Noah: Debate streamers have problems in terms of their medium because they have a weak connection to facts and is more about rhetoric then arguments. Also Noah: Explicitly and unambiguously says that he will not do research on what he is talking about. ----- Noah: Content creators have to control their communities. Content creators have a responsibility to minimize the amount of harassment their community engages in. Also Noah: Look at Vaush not control his community. I was made fun of my stutter twice, there is a clip channel that has a bad thumbnail and a deceptive edit (even though the edit does accurately describe PF’s position it is still bad), and people from Vaush’s community pushing back against incorrect information or people not engaging with Vaush’s actual and stated position. Also also Noah: Here is an example of at least 4 people getting yeeted from Vaush’s community. ----- Noah: Vaush said that racists have sexual preferences regarding the racial out group that are inconsistent with their racism (which is an objectively true thing that happens). Kat responded to this by talking about Vaush’s genitals after previously publicly apologizing to black women for the sexting Vaush. Also Noah: These are comparable. Vaush bad. Kat bad. ------ Noah: Complains about deceptive edits. Also Noah: Deceptively edits. ------- Noah: Kat was justified in leaking DMs. Kat: I leaked DMs because Vaush denied how the conversation went. The conversation: Went how Vaush said it did. Vaush just wouldn’t go along with Kat’s misrepresentations. ----- And he wonders why he gets pushback? He is just not good at his job. He makes bad videos, gets called out for it, and then calls it harassment. Noah is just pathetic.

[@ritwik1410]

.

[@iwiffitthitotonacc4673]

He's definitely going to screenshot this comment and call it harassment as well lmao

[@hardlyworking_]

but he's such a nice young boy... can't we just let him spread disinformation pwease? just a crumb of disinformation? 👉👈

[@epr0smith]

I ain’t reading all this lmao.

[@alvinanis3006]

@@epr0smith Tldr: Noah is a slimy weasel with no backbone

[@quintinzorn4304]

I love how throughout the entire video most of the comments on screen are totally fine. Some are rude or snarky, but only a few make fun of Noah’s stuttering, and there was one single comment that said that PF was emotional bc they’re black, and that was the worst of it. Vaush looked through his Twitter replies for less than an minute and found someone advocating for physical violence against him. Everyone else crybullies about harassment with no evidence, and again, it took Vaush less than 1 minutes to find a physical threat against him.

[@hadronoftheseus8829]

"but only a few make fun of Noah’s stuttering." He's just brazenly lying about having a stutter (much like Andy Warski before him) and clearly doesn't even know what that means. What Noah exhibits is an extreme delay in word choice, not a difficulty in annunciating the phonemes of resolutely selected words. This is a nontrivial distinction because a genuine stutter is purely a problem of _motor coordination_ , not a cognitive deficit.

[@xXRickTrolledXx]

Imagine thinking conflict is harassment. I just want this dumb shit to end.

[@hadronoftheseus8829]

@@xXRickTrolledXx Almost no one actually thinks this, they're just willing to use it as a disingenuous pretext. I'm not sure if that's even worse, or not.

[@ImaginaryMdA]

Also, in the cope stream PF echoes the sentiment that Vaush is a p*do. But that's not harassment, somehow?

[@TheRedArrowHD]

@@ImaginaryMdA Noah refuses to mention any of this because it doesn’t fit hit narrative. He does things like bringing up one random low upvote Reddit thread but not mentioning that any positive post about Vaush can get you banned in most left leaning subreddits and there’s a specific sub that does nothing but harass and mischaracterize Vaush (that Noah has been in). I don’t know why he does it but at the very least he’s dishonest and scummy

[@iceyroo]

Professor Flowers backstabbed President Sunday with this video, but Noah doesn’t care about that, hurts his shaky narrative…

[@JE-ng4ty]

Didn't President Sunday defend PF?

[@zillafire101]

@@JE-ng4ty Yeah.

[@JE-ng4ty]

@@zillafire101 well..so much for that

[@sypherthe297th2]

@@JE-ng4ty Yep. He totally got what he deserved on that one. When the whole Flowers thing blew up, someone highly recommended President Sundays review of that conversation. It wasn't that far off the absurd bad faith nonsense Samsen put out. He started out from the position that she wasn't in the wrong and conformed his narrative to suit it. It was a good object lesson on motivated reasoning and now in reaping what you sow.

[@Special_Agent_NSB]

Reading this comment out of context is unironically hilarious.

[@Eagledude131]

Watching Noah trying to re-interpret a well documented effect of parasocial relationships that happen in communities outside left wing politics far worse than inside (Pop/K-pop fanbases immediately come to mind) as "The Vaush Effect" kind of shows he has less than nothing to say on this topic

[@onsennoodles7461]

Right?! This is exactly what I'm thinking

[@rainbowkrampus]

"I'm getting a lot more criticism than I'm used to. Must be a totally novel sociological phenomenon. I am a genius." -Noah Samsen (probably)-

[@lava172]

Fr I still see no evidence of anything that's unique to Vaush's community. Literally every community, including Noah's, has people in it that have unhealthy parasocial relationships and go too far with them

[@iwiffitthitotonacc4673]

We should literally just parrot "The Vaush Effect" whenever someone defends Noah or PF or NonCompete or whomever, just to drive home how meaningless the term is.

[@schnoz2372]

@@iwiffitthitotonacc4673 true vaush effect is when vushs does stuff

[@tomribei]

So how are public content creators supposed to be corrected/criticised by Noah's standards? If Contra said publicly on Twitter Black people are sub human (hyperbolic example), does he not think she deserves public backlash? How can these people even be affected, if there isn't a broader movement criticising them? Are their opinions supposed to magically get better? Noah's first video, was as close to slander as you could get, painting Vaush and Xan as these white supremacists in the online left, racially harassing BIPOC creators for no good reason. Noah is in the wrong, so does he expect no backlash or criticism?

[@oddduck2003]

He does expect no backlash, it's like those people who can say mad shit about you but if you say anything about them they freak out. That is the vibe i get from most video essayists they can say the shit but put 'em to the fire and they start squirming

[@LimeyLassen]

He's toxic. It's really not that complicated.

[@FelisImpurrator]

Professor Flowers brain: "Don't argue, just listen, and by listen I mean agree uncritically as long as the chosen Good People are the ones saying something"

[@Imbalanxd]

maybe he would expect to talk with the person he is criticizing and come to an understanding. but little did he know he entered the market place of ideas with an ELITE DEBATE BRO

[@SlothWindGod]

@@Imbalanxd 1 just because you talk with someone you disagree with doesn't mean you'll eventually come to an understanding and 2 If you do some form of public criticism, public responses to that criticism are inherent warranted

[@DeathEnducer]

"The collective Vaush unconscious" The Vaush Effect is a meta-physical phenomenon and we can solve ethics now

[@TheJake0fTrades]

The Online Left treats debate like it's intellectual NASCAR: an empty activity that idiots watch because sometimes there's an explosion. You're allowed to not like NASCAR, but I'd never tell a NASCAR fan that their community shouldn't exist, and I definitely wouldn't clutch my pearls when they tell me to "fuck off."

[@GabiGhita]

Vaush wasn't just diplomatic in his response, but also a bit introspective. In addition, he put this reaction on the secondary channel so as to not be front and center for his fans. I really like this arc.

[@vulpixelful]

Noah seems to have no idea why the content of the creators he likes to watch is good. He's just adopting their aesthetic(s) superficially, but has none of their integrity.

[@AudreyTheMonkey]

The amount of comments in Noah’s video that are basically saying “yeah I’ve never watched a Vaush video, but I can just tell he’s racist/transphobic/misogynistic/etc…” is so god damn depressing

[@Gloomdrake]

The online left is a clam, and Vaush is a foreign, harmful particulate, as far as they're concerned. So they try to get rid of him, but their attacks are so dishonest that Vaush just comes out of everything looking better than them, despite his imperfections

[@cogober]

A lot of former fans there too

[@Ariande796]

I mean both comment sections are super uncharitable to each other.

[@thereallocke8065]

Being white and very traditionally masc and broish

[@pako5586]

@@Ariande796 hey guys I found the centrist

[@tequilasunset8628]

21:39 lol one of the comments he's presenting as harassment is actually on her side. Also it's funny how he wizzing those "harassing" comments by so fast. It's also funny how PF blocked vaush's mods so they can't reach out to her to try and deal with the supposed harassment she's getting. But I won't say anything more since apparently pointing out misinfo is harassment.

[@ngotemna8875]

You should be embarrassed to harass every single person on the internet (except Vaush, obviously)!

[@andrewstar21]

How dare you point out he's lying.. Obviously if you don't accept their lies about vaush it's bullying

[@oopsieorange7133]

I think the Fortress Arc has so far proved that most of the time, Vaush isn't the one seeking out drama.

[@Kazoo_man64]

I cant think of a single time where Vaush was the instigator of a “drama”. At least not in the past year or so

[@LizStaples]

I think Vaush’s Autism which he is open about is a pretty clear sign he isn’t seeking drama. It won’t help him avoid drama, (in fact he is likely to trip into drama more often as he may not see it coming) but it does mean he isn’t out there looking for it. Noah very clearly is.

[@Nissicus]

@@Kazoo_man64 I think he did start the Luna drama by reacting to her video, but in contrast the Noah, Kat Blaque, contra, non compete (does kind of tie into Luna, but he made a video and dragged himself into the situation), Hasan and Professor flowers were started by the other party.

[@masterchief9291]

@@Ass_of_Amalek "lie there and take it"

[@knowledge3743]

DJ Muel really saw Vaush saying "This is the worst takedown video ever" and took it as a challenge. And what followed was truly mindblowing

[@fast-yi9js]

"I got bullied" lmfao glad all of this happend, never watching noah's stuff again has freed up a nice amount of freetime going foreward.

[@steve94183]

Noah is such a cry bully. He can say whatever he wants about people and they should just take it but if that person responds then they are harassing/bullying him. I said during the og drama with the first video that Noah didn't deserve any charitably and he continues to prove me right. Imagine focussing on Vaush while being friends with abusers like BadEmpanada, Thoughtslime, or SophieFromMars. These people are just the biggest hypocrites in the world.

[@dildonius]

Wait how are Thought Slime & Sophie From Mars "abusers"?

[@Princetopher_]

wait SophieFromMars is an abuser?? Wtf happened

[@steve94183]

@@Princetopher_ There was drama with some of Merrick Deville's mutuals. Apparently, Sophie was involved with harassment campaigns against several of them.

[@oddduck2003]

I got a bad vibe from sophie, knew something was up

[@dildonius]

@@oddduck2003 But what did she do?

[@zemborato]

The funny thing is, Noah really needs a serious, scripted, meticulously documented take-down of his dishonesty in "video essay" form. Who's going to do it?

[@jakob8884]

Exactly. It could be a documentary series taking on other causes for why Vaush is so irrationally hated, dehumanized, and bullied.

[@nervousyoungclem]

@@jakob8884 this comment is satire right? you actually think vaush is "dehumanized & bullied" this is honestly so pathetic. regardless of what you believe. this whole ordeal shows how sad the online left has become. people have given in to the exact same thing the far-right was doing in 2016. & that is things like, using clickbait (ex. vaush calling prof flowers a black nationalist in his thumbnail), being overly reactionary, & being overly annoying when they're wrong about something. noah, many times, has admitted to when he's made or mistake, or corrects himself. all vaush ever does is double down or disregard it. this is all besides the point. the internal pickering is sad, & makes the leftist movement obsolete. instead of disagreeing & fighting over these small differences, we should be focusing on what matters.

[@Hayden_Cat]

Honestly especially for the first video, while I don’t agree with the new one the debate bro question vid was the worst “video essay” I think I’ve seen. I could probably make a 2 hour long video breaking down everything wrong with that vid.

[@justalostlocal]

Lonerbox could, but I don't think he would nor should we pressure him. Video essayists seems to stick together for better or worse.

[@akkere4052]

Tbh, I don't think a meticulously documented take-down is needed. Two things: 1. It's pretty transparent and easily explainable why Noah Samsen's video is dishonest just by pointing out the way his editing works and how there's no actual points. There's no need to re-iterate this again and again and again, as I really don't think there's any need for further reinstantiating of examples that repeat. 2. Fortress Arc, bay-bee. More important thing to dedicate one's time and focus to, and drama-seeking essayists ain't one of them. We should have more important things live in our heads rent-free.

[@fuumiku]

The nerve of Noah saying he’s being harassed and abused with criticism when he gaslit Vaush on stream about his harassment experience tho

[@LimeyLassen]

FUCKING TRUE

[@jlp6864]

also saying its abelism to say he stuttered in a conversation without ever acknowledging vaushs multiple mental problems and autism

[@pieppy6058]

I love how Noel sees comments like “I like you more than vaush but I think he is right” and thinks harassment. God all of the comments he shows are like this. Is that the best he could find from such a yikes-y community.

[@PropheticShadeZ]

Like there is literally no insults and no attacks on her character. Its literally just pls stop we disagree.

[@filipmaly6603]

To be fair Vaush Limbough is stealing his friends and he can not do much to win them back so Vaush Bad!

[@spidergirl6730]

I know right? If he believes some saying he likes HIM MORE than vaush is harassment, than I don't know anymore. He made the video and that was the worst he could find?

[@sorryifoldcomment8596]

@@spidergirl6730 Yeah, if you're going to use the (very serious) term "harassment" and throw up screenshots of comments...then you are showing the worst ones. Why on earth did he include a comment saying they like him more than Vaush and only agree with Vaush's argument?? Noah says that he was harassed, that's a serious accusation that should not be thrown around lightly, so I want to see what he's been reading...there is no good reason for him to not take screenshots of all the comments he saw that led him to this conclusion! This is just embarrassing. It makes every other argument he makes look worse as well. If this is what Noah counts as evidence of "harassment," then what else does he count as evidence for his other claims? These videos are just filled with bad arguments. You don't need to have a positive or even negative opinion about Vaush in order to see this. Noah seriously needs to work on his script writing...and develop awareness of his poor use of the English language when it comes to communicating his "arguments." There are holes in everything, it's incredibly frustrating.

[@rainbowkrampus]

This dude calls even handed criticism harassment. He's either too neurotic to handle being a public figure or he's a liar. (watches video) Ah, so a liar then. JFC, the online left is a wasteland if this is what passes as good criticism.

[@BlueTyphoon2017]

Unironiaclly some of the stuff on the online left actually makes me consider suicide unironically, because like, with stuff like this, a revolution isn’t coming anytime soon, why should I stick around? I know it sounds dramatic but, idk, all this shit doesn’t make me optimistic for the overthrow of capitalism, or even fucking reformism.

[@Flamberge1999]

@@BlueTyphoon2017 .

[@frackingfluidinjection]

@@BlueTyphoon2017 .

[@1OtherMr]

@@BlueTyphoon2017 get that shit out of your mind right now, that's a good first step. Telling ourselves it can't ever be done is akin to telling ourselves the king's divine rule is unquestionable. Aka: dumb and it'll just slow us down

[@ThePeridactl]

@@BlueTyphoon2017 bro what?

[@nymade4130]

Since you’re in the fortress I’ll say it for you: this guy, completely unprovoked, revived months old drama and told a shit ton of lies to farm views for a sponsor. It’s pretty hard not to be negative when people do this kind of shit. Like he’s begging for it.

[@DodgeDart]

Yeah why isn’t this being brought up more?

[@miiiwu1999]

Honestly I feel like Vaush was too nice here but I get it cause of the fortress arc and all. Still, Noah gives me really scummy vibes :/

[@ImaginaryMdA]

Yeah, this follow up was supposed to be a moment of self reflection, but instead he just piles on more lies and fallacious accusations.

[@stardust3176]

I think Vaush is being too nice to Noah still. I’ll still be snarky about my criticisms on Vaush’s comment section, but I’ll refrain from interacting with Noah or his content in any other capacity as to not be accused of harassment. I don’t trust him, so I’ll just be apathetic towards him.specially after also watching Xan’s vid about this.

[@trinketeerrine6674]

@@stardust3176 It's so frustrating to have to be so cautious around someone simply because they'll frame any criticism as an attack. It feels like such a toxic dynamic. I hope Noah recognises that or just stops talking about stuff he is not willing to research.

[@andrewstar21]

Harrassment during gamergate: people would dox you send death threats to your house dead animals on your steps.. Harrassment according to Noah: pointing out he lied.

[@PerfectDark0]

People like Noah would have been eviscerated during GamerGate.

[@brianajaxwintor6023]

@@PerfectDark0 I've never seen someone use sensitivity as a shield before.

[@BlueTyphoon2017]

@@brianajaxwintor6023 in terms of, who? Are you saying the commentator is sensitive or Sampson?

[@brianajaxwintor6023]

@@BlueTyphoon2017 Noah. His whole personality is based around throwing shade but he can't handle any.

[@stardust3176]

I thought cancel culture wasn’t a thing from Noah’s Circle’s perspective. It’s just people being held accountable for their actions…. *bonks* remember the fortress…

[@Theyungcity23]

Where did he say he was cancelled or that this was cancel culture? Vaushites are legitimately psychopaths. Just barreling through with the same bs regardless of who says it’s hurting them.

[@LizStaples]

I think Noah is actually doing this to try to get into that circle. Noah wasn’t on the cope stream my guess he saw the other random white passing guys in there and though that could be me!

[@ShadowDragon1848]

To be fair, when you get thousands and thousands of even valid criticism it definitively feels like harassment (I think Vaush said something like that even at some point). That can be overwhelming even when you are big. But yeah a simple disagreement is in itself not harassment.

[@GigasGMX]

If you can’t deal with criticism En masse, do not be on Twitter. Period.

[@hadronoftheseus8829]

@@Ass_of_Amalek No, it's not.

[@page8301]

Well you just have to remember that people are not a hive mind. Individual posters do not know how many have already critizised you and also would like to be heard as well, especially when you are dead wrong about something subjectively or objectively.

[@kylegonewild]

It also feels like a unique kind of harassment to watch these creators' content and them make snide remarks and denigrating, generalizing comments about people who just watch Vaush, indirectly encouraging their comment sections to circlejerk each other about how awful of a person anyone who dares acknowledge his existence and hears his words are. I'm watching a video about how dumb Caleb Maupin is, I don't need a several minute aside where you painstakingly assure your audience that by merely whispering Vaush's name you are, in fact, not summoning him for a debate or agreeing with him and his horrible, terrible, no good, very bad audience. Shit's exhausting. These people make money off my KZbin Premium sub insulting me and thousands of others.

[@Gamernutritionfacts]

@@GigasGMX real. Either that or private your account before you say some controversial shit

[@andrju3916]

Noah really just sees any negativity towards POC as racism

[@alexandraburkot337]

36:10 bro aren't you an ESSAYIST, research is your JOB, if you were in a graduate program and you said "i'm not going to read this source for this paper because it's too long" they would rip you a new one. what on earth

[@narikobeilschmidt]

right! normalize calling these people "commentary channels", because they certainly aren't putting in the minimum research of an actual essay

[@lallig8860]

Noah is a perfect example of what is wrong with the Online Left. he's also EXTREMELY obviously a grifter. like an ad read RIGHT off of a moment of silence? seriously? & using Lindsey Ellis as a cynical tool when it was VIDEO ESSAYISTS who forced her off the platform? unbelievable.

[@alvinanis3006]

@Russian Waifu Ok hate watcher care to explain why you still watch him too then?

[@pieppy6058]

I don’t think that Noel is a grifter. He just doesn’t understand twitter.

[@pieppy6058]

@Russian Waifu vaush “grifts” with TTS streams, not poorly paid political commentary

[@MakhnoDripGod]

@Russian Waifu touch grass weeb

[@LizStaples]

@@pieppy6058 If this wasn’t the second “anti-debate bro” video I might believe that. I think he saw how well his first vid did and knows exactly what he is doing drama farming

[@sosapalaciosmd]

About Prof. Flowers… when you say a racial group should have the possibility to consider whether or not to displace you from your home, you should expect visceral pushback from those who do not want to be displaced. That includes POCs, descendants of colonizers, colonized, etc. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[@Gothamcitylive_]

... because Vaush bad Vaush bad lol 😂🤣🤣

[@brapbrappewpew8129]

Noah interchangeably (and incorrectly) saying “deferential treatment” and “differential treatment” throughout the vid is so infuriating lol

[@hadronoftheseus8829]

He's clearly not a bright guy.

[@laurens.8475]

First and foremost, I don't condone any harassment that Noah, Vaush, or Xan have received over this train wreck arc; but what really baffles me is that Noah is now presenting himself as the example victim when he was the one to initiate this whole hit piece on debate bros without fully diving into the research needed to contextualize and support his arguments even as a video essayist (which is supposed to be his forte). He CHOSE to open Pandora's Box unprepared, and the Illidan of debate bros exposed that sloppiness. If you're a video essayist, and you're planning to come at people who specialize in debate tactics, your essayist skills in that video need to be air-tight because your talking points are going to get shredded regardless, and there is no room for substandard research. I'll even ignore the conversation he had with Vaush after the video, out of good will, because he should not have gone on that live stream after immediately incensing everyone (he was never going to come out of that convo saving face). Two emails to Vaush and Xan to clarify the historical context on a handful of the points would have obsoleted parts of the video right out the gate. It should have been reworked with the new information gleaned so that any of the stronger arguments were no longer overshadowed by blatantly unsupported narrative choices. That wouldn't have halted the die-hards, but at least he could have stood on a stronger foundation of counter-argumentation.

[@ImaginaryMdA]

Yeah, this video of his was supposed to be a moment of introspection. Instead it's a follow through on the previous attack.

[@laurens.8475]

@@ImaginaryMdA Exactly! I'm watching this video going, "You PICKED this fight for content, and now you're crying because you can't handle the consequences?" Like, duh dude!

[@andrewstar21]

Harrassment is when people point out you're lying.

[@dereinzigwahreRahl]

@@laurens.8475 Yeah it's interesting how Noah doesn't realise he is maybe just not cut out for this line of work. A comparison from my life comes to mind, when I told people I was a nurse once, a lot of them said "I could never do it, I couldn't deal with that" - an understandable thing to say, I stopped doing nursing for a reason, or two. But somehow barely any of these content creators realize that you have to deal with shit in their line of work aswell. It's very taxing I get i,t but if you can't deal with it, don't do it. It sucks that the environment of their line of work is so toxic and I'd like to see that improved, but it's not gonna change any time soon, so deal with it or do something else.

[@BustDaNinja]

It really sucks beating the dead horse, but this isn't the Gamergate days. My sister came out as trans during the Gamergate era. My sister showed me the harassment they faced. Like even within the small liberal arts campus they went to college on, it was targeted and nasty. People would doxx you will full pictures, and post your information. My sister had death threats that identified where they would be. That's scary. That's harassment. Being told your video missed the mark and was not worth keeping up isn't that at all.

[@puckerings]

"This is not a drama video... strikes me an awful lot like "I'm not racist but..."

[@stardust3176]

I think Noah couldn’t mention the fact that Contra has a bigger platform than Vaush cause he went after Xan and HE has a bigger platform than Xan.

[@Princetopher_]

Saying punching down is bad while punching down/supporting the punching down of others himself lmao

[@Airwavehero]

It is pretty insane how alot of the criticism of vaush is made by people who clearly only watch clips, or don't even do the barest minum research. Like, I'm not a fan of his edgy moments, and I don't agree with him on everything. But there are better critic's of him you could make with out resorting to this vague posting bs Edit: spelling

[@yungcris5211]

It’s crazy, a lot of them don’t even look at the clip let alone the full unedited debate

[@michaelmoran9020]

I've seen this exact comment on so many Jordan Peterson videos

[@freakshow3313]

@@michaelmoran9020 i've seen alot of your kinda thinking under jp videos

[@zotaninoron3548]

@@michaelmoran9020 Nobody is asking anyone to go through Vaush's entire back catalogue the way JLP fans suggest. But being informed of the entire context of a debate a clip is chimped from, by actually watching the specific debate, is not an unreasonable ask of someone pushing strong inflammatory opinions publicly about the implications of the clip.

[@TheLithp]

@@zotaninoron3548 Note that "watch all of their videos" HAS been used as a defense by Noah, toward Flowers.

[@allisoncastle]

Strange how he didn’t say a word about Xanderhal…

[@nonofyabidnez5737]

tru lol

[@bassyboi581]

Noah has more of a Commentary core with a Videoessay aesthetic. The research is horrendously incomplete, and the points are then so biased and underdeveloped that is frustrating to see a good rough idea get dropped because the time to polish it got stretched over 4 more points too. It would help so much to make vids that have like only 2 main points of a topic, hell, make a series about the topic! The point of a videoessay is to do a study or almost a presentation, by someone who knows everything that is involved in the topic covered Many of his vids have such a superficial script that they have a pretty low. rewatchability value, which would be okay for a commentary, but for an essay?

[@miiiwu1999]

Yeah true, he’s more like a commentary KZbinr making fun of ‘bad ppl’ but trying to come off like a well researched video essay type guy

[@shimmerence]

omg you’re right it’s like he tried to be leftist Kurtis Connor that’s why the editing style is Like That

[@TheRedArrowHD]

yeah and commentary channels still manage to do more research even when live. Shit all Noah had to do was not purposefully forget Vaush telling him he gets death threats and has lies told about him daily on twitter. Noah intentionally left out Vaush's greater level of harassment because it doesn't help his narrative which is just scummy as fuck

[@FelisImpurrator]

Appropriately, his loudest defenders in the comments here act like high school bullies who have failed every test since first grade, think the concepts of reading and facts are bad, and are only in your class because mommy paid extra to keep them in school. War flashbacks to my school experience. Jesus fuck.

[@lifeofbob2896]

Noah Samson: I want to make a second video about Vaush, but I can't be bothered to put on his streams before I do it, even when I know specifically which streams addressed the specific points I want to talk about. Shawn: I want to talk about JK Rowling, so I went ahead and read every fucking word she has ever published.

[@FortuitousOwl]

I hope Noah gets all the positive attention he craves by performatively denouncing Vaush for no reason. Noah, this isn’t harassment.

[@greatcesari]

This comment perfectly sums up what this all about. It’s a sad sight, and I wish these unproductive dysfunctional breadtubers would either attempt to solve real issues or just f-ck off. Noah is the embodiment of everything wrong with the online left.

[@mr.OldNews]

Well, to Noah your comment is the Prime example of harassment.. sorry you're a harasser now..... And also a racist.

[@tomisaacson2762]

What is it with online leftists and the word "performative"? Super overused

[@FortuitousOwl]

@@tomisaacson2762 do you disagree with how I used it or are you simply annoyed by the word? If it’s the latter I do not care lol

[@graysonwilson3343]

@@FortuitousOwl It was just a performative rolling of the eyes

[@lillylane1698]

Coming from someone who's been stalked IRL, Noah has zero idea what harrasment looks like.

[@MrSurrealKarma]

Nice gatekeeping.

[@hilaofek4426]

love how Noah says he'll provide the amount of necessary context, then only presents information that makes kat look good

[@austinman1712]

Noah just comes off as fragile and immature throughout this whole thing and gets to hide it through prerecorded monotone points.

[@sotiris2273]

Anything specific? I don't really see it

[@reedraikes7471]

He made a bunch of great points on why debate bros are so annoying and completely unproductive, all you have to do is skim this comment section to see he’s right

[@sotiris2273]

@@reedraikes7471seems empirical

[@reedraikes7471]

@@sotiris2273 you want me to give you empirical evidence on why debate lords are annoying?

[@CPSPD]

@@reedraikes7471 maybe some empirical evidence of harassment instead of mostly a series of disagreements and a single egregious comment that received no positive engagement and got called out once it was posted

[@Soulweaver0]

Does Noah not realize that debate bros were defending Lindsay Ellis when she was getting harassed from fans of video essayists.

[@svinitials]

I hopped over to his vid to see the comments, and half are kissing the ground he walks on saying "thank u daddy, so brave, love ur content bby, let me have ur mustache's babies ❤❤❤" then claiming any critics have a parasocial relationship with Vaush. The lack of self-awareness is astounding

[@ArbyOne]

I have to say, I deeply admire the fortress arc so far. This was a pretty aggressive and inflammatory response, and instead of firing back, you’re taking it in stride and emphasizing positive behavior. I’m really, really impressed, and honestly surprised. I don’t think I currently have the maturity to do the same, were I in your position. Fortress Arc indeed, Vaush. I hope this leads to healthier interactions in the future. Because these last couple months have just been…embarrassing, not necessarily because of your behavior, but because of the entire online left. FORTRESS ARC ✊🏼

[@hughmac13]

WTF is a "fortress arc"?

[@ArbyOne]

@@hughmac13 the “fortress arc” is a shorthand for Vaush’s recently declared intention to avoid and downplay drama as much as possible, and instead display a preference for policy advocacy. It was a response to a pretty embarrassing two or three months of pretty pointless drama that had absolutely nothing to do with anything that impacts real world policy. Not necessarily Vaush’s fault, he didn’t invent the online left eating itself before it can do anything productive, but he was participating in that trend, for sure. So what I’m saying is that I’m impressed by him sticking to his commitment-not just not starting drama, but also deliberately not escalating drama that other people participate in. It’s a really hard thing to do, and I’m sure that’s doubly true for as visible an online figure as Vaush.

[@FelisImpurrator]

Not gonna lie, even during the drama, Vaush's response to the thing with Kat and Contra was exceptionally mature and charitable. Like... I watched basically all of it other than the 7 hour meme stream, and his actual responses to the whole situation were consistently a matter of him taking the high road and not engaging in spite politics when others blatantly were. I mean, you can see it in how he talks about Contra: Beef or no beef, he still gives her respect and talks about how good her content is to other people when the subject comes up. There's no backbiting or "well she's not that good anyway" bullshit, just good, honest separation of personal drama from good faith positions. It's a thing virtually no creators on the left who even disagree with Vaush are willing to do with or for him, and yet he gets called the one who only acts out of spite or a desire to score owns? What?

[@ArbyOne]

@@FelisImpurrator I agree, I think all of that was very composed. However, I think this kinda gets to the heart of the reason the fortress arc was necessary: even in cases where one participates in drama in as composed a manner as they can, couching criticisms in conciliatory language and expressing admiration and care at every turn, it still will turn out optically bad as the audience just eats itself alive. The important thing is that this is on the second channel, and the main channel will continue to put out relevant political content discussing actual issues that affect actual people. That’s what makes the difference for me between then and now.

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@ArbyOne True. This is why I watch Vaush even when I absolutely disagree with the entirety of a point he makes, which does happen: Because looking beneath the aesthetic, he's one of the extremely few lefty creators who will make a real, honest effort to question their biases and correct their mistakes. No performative humility, no deliberate clip chimping as far as I've seen.

[@WhichDoctor1]

I like the lowkey, non-esclationist approach Vaush has in this vid waaaaay more than previous events. Far more listenable and potentially even enjoyable. I found previus vids like this in the past so exhausting I've never actually been able to watch more than like 20% or so in one sitting. And I don't think I've never actually finished one before.

[@Princetopher_]

@Cee Bee I think they're trying to say that it can be emotionally taxing to a degree to sit through something so grating like that. It's a day ruiner

[@zacheryeckard3051]

@Cee Bee Who are you supposed to be defending? Noah's video (and the older one on this same topic) is borderline unwatchable if you value truth. If you mean Vaush's video, fair enough, I guess?

[@Princetopher_]

@Cee Bee Yes I've heard that spiel before lol That's neither here nor there though, and while I agree with you, I was not expressing my personal point of view here and I certainly haven't suggested that I or op is impugning anybody. I thought I would try and help clarify the point op is trying to get across; their point being that sitting through negativity can be strenuous and exhausting, which is why they haven't watched the previous stuff, and that is alright. This is a neutral statement, I think. I like Vaush's non-esculationist approach as well, mind; the fortress arc was a good idea in that Vaush gets to stick to his guns while not feeding into lefty infighting which I'm sure we can agree is a positive approach. I do appreciate your sentiment though.

[@adamgr6988]

I wish I could say that I felt the same way in response, myself. Even though I'm not subbed to Vaush for debates (the aggression and open parroting of reactionary bullshit from his adversaries is just not comfortable for me to listen to without anxiety, though I recognize how necessary that work is), his demeanor in this video did not but make me feel existentially bleak. Maybe I'm wrong and my autism is seeing "genuine stoicism and charitability" as something it isn't. But to me, this looked like a man who is exhausted from years of unwarranted and fallacious attacks and threats, seeing yet another hour of manipulative bullshit attacks against him, knowing that having any dignity while responding will only make things worse. He spent the weeks that Noah needed to craft this atrocity doing honest-to-god capital J journalism and coalition building and toning down parts of his demeanor that many subscribed for in the first place. But because "Vaush bad, duh" - we have to entertain this ludicrous notion that Noah's repeated attacks and manipulation in defense of virulent racists is some important work deserving of respect and complete deference, and it killed me to spend an hour watching Vaush dignify this fucking weasel, accepting his blatant slimy grift as good faith critique that he has no right to defend himself against. Inb4 touch grass, I will when I post this, but I don't think I'm having a parasocial reaction. *I'm certain I'm having a reaction to watching a man I respect get openly and flagrantly abused while responding with near-total deference and submission.*

[@zacheryeckard3051]

@@adamgr6988 For whatever it's worth, I agree with you, I think.

[@jacob510]

I left a much longer comment in Noah's video but the short is: Dear lord the amount of people who say "I don't watch vaush" or "I won't watch a stream" but are so willing to make criticism about him is astonishing. What are they criticizing? Someones take about another person's opinion about Vaush?

[@alvinanis3006]

Gotta love Noah taking a month, just to make a badly formed video with piss poor arguments. Then, having the audacity to compare his situation to Lindsay Ellis, framing himself as a victim. Give crybullies some love 🥺🥺

[@FortuitousOwl]

@@Ass_of_Amalek can I ask how?

[@liquidrufus]

@@FortuitousOwl That user name of the other poster reeks of troll. Damn I miss Lindsay.

[@FortuitousOwl]

@@liquidrufus yeah that kids been commenting in every thread in this comment section talking about how they hate watch vaush lol I should’ve known from the username

[@FortuitousOwl]

@@Ass_of_Amalek can you give me concrete things Lindsay did that you find to be cry-bully and not waffle on about how personally annoying you found her content? Cause that’s not the same thing. I was mostly referring to the fact that your username isn’t your name it’s a meme-y current events based phrase.

[@FortuitousOwl]

@@Ass_of_Amalek ?

[@junjiito6298]

Just unsubscribed from him. The dishonesty is too much. If he properly apologizes in the future and recognizes whats wrong, i’ll resubscribe, but for right now, Noah continues to be insufferable.

[@ImaginaryMdA]

Yeah, that's the worst part of the video. He doesn't do any introspection on the things he got wrong in the video. He states the reception was "mixed". Briefly mentioned the things he walked back, only in order to push back against the narrative that he walked the whole thing back not to take accountability or anything. And then moves on to whine about the backlash. He never even mentions the shit he did to Xan.

[@estudos6156]

Why did Noah start this beef in the first place??? Like dude there are already LOTS of conservatives on KZbin you could start beef with, he could start it with Jimmy Dore or Russell Brand or wathever. But why start leftist infighting? Hasan doesn’t do that, he stays indifferent for the most part and occasionally gives light criticism, i love both Vaush and Hasan

[@Sugarman96]

@@estudos6156 for as shitty as Shaun is on Twitter, he still managed to keep the infighting off his main channel, his responses are all to conservatives.

[@michaelwerkov3438]

@@Sugarman96 phrasing it like that, i guess i have to be appreciative of the people not dragging things onto the main channel. and i ended up kind of paying more attention to the couple things noah had some points about that i forgot... he was totally shitty to xan too, and xan is a sincere ass young dude and smaller content creator, and noah is stomping on him like a goomba to get extra air for that vaush clout

[@estudos6156]

@@Sugarman96 true, Shaun keeps his drama on Twitter, thats commendable/less worse too.

[@Beast80001]

Watch, disagree, move on. Cha cha slide. Fortress arc.

[@PerfectDark0]

Watching people misrepresent Vaush so egregiously is presenting very hard to ignore for me. 🥴🥴🥴

[@sathrielsatanson666]

The mantra of the echo chamber.

[@Beast80001]

@@sathrielsatanson666wtf are you talking about?

[@emv2917]

The saddest part is that there are tens of thousands of people who will watch the video and think "yeah, this was really well-made"

[@epazote4204]

Why is no one bringing up the fact that Noah admitted to making this video without watching a single minute of vaushs 7 hour Kat stream? This is like admitting you’re writing a review for a movie you fell asleep halfway through and still have the dumb bravado to think you have a complete grasp on the subject

[@EliTheGleason]

Because most of the video isn't talking about that stream, it's pretty much a personal anecdote about his shared experiences with being dog piled by vaush type fanbases

[@epazote4204]

@@EliTheGleason I’m sorry but what the fuck exactly is a “vaush type fanbase”???? Can you name me a single Internet personality with over 200k subscribers/followers that doesn’t have their own platoon of terminally online parasocial kids. This is literally just a function of the internet. Not to mention I think vaushs audience is probably a little older and more introspective than most other large audiences on the internet. If Noah got dog piled by the kids from DreamSMP he probably would’ve robloxed himself by now

[@mckenzie.latham91]

@@EliTheGleason *Because most of the video isn't talking about that stream,* Irrelevant, he makes a claim about vaush's actions and intent, one that frame vaush as a possible bully and or racist then admits he will not even bother to verify it cause “stream is too long” lol what? * it's pretty much a personal anecdote * So not actual credible evidence and totally arbitrary? wow convincing *about his shared experiences with being dog piled by vaush type fanbases* Ah yes the dog-piling of good faith and charitable criticism and disagreement that he apparently can’t handle despite putting out a public video into the public sphere he wanted to be seen by the public lol even his examples of harassment are not harassment and it seems that he views a lot of people calling him out and not sucking his dick like his comment sections in his videos including this one is a sign of harassment

[@lallig8860]

@@EliTheGleason it's literally integral because the entire timeline of events Noah has is full of blatant lies intentionally biased in favor of Kat. Vaush's live stream from that day is important because it LITERALLY documents the events LIVE to the minute, we know who did what when, & we know that Kat started ALL of it & now her/her defenders are trying to rewrite reality

[@marcananmh]

The thing about this whole Noah drama that really makes me mad is the actual motivations behind it. At its core, this just feels like most people on Noah's side just believe that if someone is acts kind then they are right and if someone acts rude or abrasive then they are wrong. That's what is truly the problem here and it's honestly the reasoning behind all the hate vaush gets. He's a bit rude and abrasive and in their eyes that equals a bad person. Meanwhile Noah lies his pants off two videos in a row and he's the good guy because he's a nice soft spoken person. Its driving me insane

[@nuttbutt8358]

I’m just untrusting of the quality checks of his channel, based on his framing of this community. He’ll say things like “what they said about me is demonstrably untrue”, and then not demonstrate it. Or create a strawman, use a clip that doesn’t support the strawman as evidence, and then proceed to make a point of the issues he has with the strawman- with no further support. Whatever bias allowed him to use most of the comments shown in this video as harassment or the Chomsky clip in the last as a dig against you is very, very concerning. Maybe contrapoints, shaun, philosophy tube, etc set too high of a standard (though I have seen small channels or even streamers approach this level of quality), but it’s jarring to see a video essay that doesn’t steelman its opposition. He’s a good rhetorician and editor, and can make a convincing narrative, but he can’t for the life of him support it. It’s an intriguing look into his thought process. Given what he’s done with information I know is untrue, I’m uncomfortable with what he can do with information I don’t.

[@FelisImpurrator]

Ironically, by his standard of debate bro, that makes Noah Samson the ultimate debate bro: Someone who only uses rhetoric without having an argument, beating people over the skull with cheap dunks to look good.

[@cnacma]

That’s because he’s a money grubbing slimeball. He resurrected a month dead drama just so he could stick an ad read on the front of it because he knows it will get views. He’s literally making the left far more toxic for purely selfish disgusting monetary reasons while simultaneously accusing Vaush and Xan for doing the same. Professor flowers and Luna have some horrendous viewpoints, but they actually believe what they’re saying. They believe they are arguing what’s right. Noah doesn’t believe any of this. This is all a purely cynical drama whoring arc to pad his view numbers to stick an ad read on.

[@captainjoy8976]

That's such a good point! I have watched a few videos of his before as background noise to mundane tasks, but I did question the validity of everything he's said in those few videos. You can't trust him

[@chazcmeekins83]

Could you list any of the small creators that you've seen do a good job of this in a general sense?

[@BunchyPanther42]

I love how Noah claims that critiques Vaush’s community gives is harassment but I looked at Noah’s comment section and yeah the comments are actual harassment towards Vaush

[@BunchyPanther42]

@@Ass_of_Amalek right because people weren’t saying that’s he’s a creep that has no life and spends all day in his room etc. try again

[@thelingeringartist]

If anything I saw a lot of Vaush viewers commenting,either giving Noah positive credit (weirdly enough) or seemingly indifferent to his video.

[@slaps_only]

That money joke at the beginning was funny af

[@xaldynnemo47]

I couldn't help but notice how Noah took issue with Thermia's joke edit of Prof Flowers, while also conveniently leaving alllll of the stuff he said about Xanderhal out of this video entirely. Jokingly editing Flowers to say her father is an oppressor? This shouldn't be acceptable! Jokingly editing Xanderhal to sound racist? Don't worry about it bro, let's just brush that under the rug lmao shhhhhh

[@intiago]

For a video supposedly about harassment and bullying all of the tweets Noah showed seemed... fine? Like you're on twitter its not a private discord channel, people are free to reply, critique, or retweet you. It comes across as really pathetic to equate a wave of criticism with harassment. It is also really irresponsible, because this is exactly what the right does when they're criticized, saying a 'woke mob' is cancelling them and harassing them when they've said some dumb shit.

[@intiago]

Also his argument that he shouldn't have come on Vaush's stream unprepared, but he literally made an entire video about what they were talking about? How is releasing that video not super irresponsible if you haven't even done the basic preparation necessary to talk about it?

[@MZSking]

@@intiago dude used the jontron excuse

[@kronikkronolov9793]

@@intiago Noah is literally just a clout shark.

[@sgtjohnson49]

Noah makes a poignant argument about the power and toxicity of a large audience, particularly that of a debate bro. Not saying he shouldn't expect it and react better to it, but the reality that thousands of people harassing you because a content creator they subscribe to encouraged or blatantly told them to (as Vaush has done several times) is toxic and damaging.

[@samuelkiernan2740]

@@sgtjohnson49 a poignant argument he proved he didn't actually care about based on the way he treated xan, a smaller creator than himself

[@zephyr8072]

Noah appears to have morphed into his final form of a serial killer from 1970.

[@harrywompa]

Just talking to people isn't harassment, Jesus Christ. These people are public figures, getting buried in mentions is literally part of the job. It's not a Vaush audience problem, it's a social media problem. Actual harassments is the death threats and shit in dms, but that's mostly outside our ability to affect, it's not like we're out here brigading, that isn't a thing Vaush fans do. By Noah's reasoning here, any critical interaction with anyone is harassment, and that is a wildly low bar that would trip up everyone, including Noah by doing these "essays". The casual use of "causing harm" is the death of material change, flattens any context and makes it so much harder to deal with the actual bad shit, and taking token minorities at face value uncritically is bigoted infantilization (typed this comment while watching, was nice to see I preempted Vaush's final thoughts!). .... people like this are so frustrating.

[@paromanin]

Are you dense or did you not even watch it? Maybe part of the problem is you Vaush nutswingers don't know what harassment even is.

[@lilstevechan8427]

Also, if a public person does something shitty what are you supposed to even do about it? According to Noah, you aren't allowed to critique them if they're PoC.

[@noname-bu1ux]

@@lilstevechan8427 I just don't see where he's saying to take poc at face value. Professor flowers said genocide was wrong the very first time Vaush asked her. She didn't need to say it the next six times. Literally the very first time.

[@lilstevechan8427]

@@noname-bu1ux And the Nazis at the Unite the Right rally kept saying they disavow white nationalism.

[@noname-bu1ux]

@@lilstevechan8427 so professor flowers supports genocide because she's anti-colonial. Well if we're judging people based on subtext, you support genocide since you support colonialism. Colonialism IS genocide.

[@a3lfeoxld]

Noah Samson burn his toast this morning, damn you, Vaush!!!!

[@daze3x87]

I do find it weird how much shit Vaush's community gets, as if his own community doesn't criticize him on the regular. People really do need need to get better at differentiating criticism and harassment. Saying someone is wrong about something and then giving an argument why isn't harassment. Vaush's community gives criticism and is accused of harassment. Is Vaush's community engaging in harassment when they criticize Vaush too? It's really dumb.

[@MayvaAva]

I think the problem is, when vaush’s community is encouraged to copy paste the same criticism he said or paraphrase it, over and over, (his own little mob). The target can watch vaush’s criticism. It’s a very terminally online type of thing “I have to ‘correct’ this stranger even though plenty have already, because I want to feel like I did something important and I got riled up about some influencer or something”, it makes sense for vaush because it’s his job and he’s the one with the platform, it doesn’t make sense to send a bunch of people to harass someone. (It will happen regardless but I’ve been watching Vaush long enough to know he actively encourages it constantly) I think Vaush’s, and most streamers for that matter’s problem, is that they have egos so massive they’re incapable of accepting criticism and it’s super disappointing but not unexpected. Given the comments on this video I could already tell he completely missed the point, and as a result, so did his audience, because they really aren’t critical enough.

[@RobertKinter]

@@MayvaAva The video should not contain lies and misrepresent events. If Noah had legitimate criticisms he should have focused on that instead of spending the video passive-agressively slandering vaush. Because that's what this is, slander.

[@schnoz2372]

I’ve never seen the man be wrong

[@finngardiner5358]

@@schnoz2372 vaush has absolutely been wrong about things, the fact that he can admit that and have conversations that change his mind is a large part of why I watch him

[@stardust3176]

I can’t deny that I feel sort of vindicated. From the first time we interacted with the Noah vid I felt weasel vibes from him, but people kept telling me to give him a chance, that he was just naive. Nah, to me this goes past naivety, he’s just trying hard to pander to the side of the online left that hates Vaush. That’s it. “Oh it’s not harassment when I do it because Vaush Bad and I’m not bad” Making snarky comments about someone and calling someone’s inconsistencies out is not the same as harassing someone with death threats.

[@TheFamousMockingbird]

we?

[@dildonius]

@@TheFamousMockingbird ¡Da, kommrade!

[@stardust3176]

@@TheFamousMockingbird like on stream.

[@stardust3176]

@@JasonFlemingMusic that’s my point. Noah is conflating valid criticism with harassment.

[@clumsyninja925]

What a weird take. There is more types of harassment than just death threats.

[@darryljack6612]

I enjoy Kat's content but she was being very cringe in the comment section of the Noah video. Under the statement she posted, one person stated that what she wrote was too long. And then she went off and said something to the effect of (and i am paraphrasing) "Oh so you can watch a 7 hour long stream, but you dont have the attention span to read!?" Granted she said that was the only comment she was going to reply to, but it still made no literal sense to do. But the funny thing was that the person who said it was too long, never even stated that they watched the 7 hour stream, all they said was one simple thing, that was just their own opinion on the length.

[@cronch9716]

lmaooo that's too damn funny

[@crazybitcharoundhere]

also, some people have an easier time just sitting and listening to someone talk for 7 hours than having to read long forms of text. that's... that's like the whole reason audiobooks exist????

[@stardust3176]

@@crazybitcharoundhere yeah not gonna lie, lowkey ableist lmfao

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@crazybitcharoundhere I have the opposite problem (auditory processing disorder) and I don't go around shitting on people for being better with audio. I do shit on people for not reading a thing and then responding belligerently to it while getting everything about it wrong, but that's not a disability thing, that's Dunning-Kruger.

[@shimmerence]

when I saw that comment my first thought was. “i ain’t reading all of that. im happy for u tho. or sorry it happened.” kgkdhsgafjg my brain could not process the wall of text

[@noventia8125]

I think as a community we need to realise that the fortress arc isn't a just a change in focus, it should also be a change in attitude. This is what Vaush is talking about at the beginning - regardless of how fun it is, don't indulge in the worst parts of the drama - be overly charitable even when it seems annoying, because it has more utility. By going "oho the fortress arc isn't going well ooooh" it just exacerbates this, imo.

[@PropheticShadeZ]

Meh, the people complaining about drama are just expressing their disinterest in that type of content

[@andreymontag]

I feel like Vaush is in too deep. The only way I see it ending is with Vaush creating "Vaush sphere" with all the people who benefit from him

[@LizStaples]

@@andreymontag we have already seen the Tankies do exactly that. Every time we talk about Noah it becomes more clear to me he is trying to get an in with the PF Luna Oi cope stream, he saw other smaller creators on there and thought why not me!

[@FortuitousOwl]

@@Ass_of_Amalek you could simply not watch the videos you don’t want to watch.

[@FortuitousOwl]

@@Ass_of_Amalek it’s also really sad

[@greatcesari]

Noah is EXTREMELY manipulative throughout all of his points. Kind of says a lot him and his stance on this drama. It’s also disheartening how he trivializes “abuse” by pretending to be a victim and conflating harassment with minor pushback/disagreement.

[@loupevl]

Yeah that was super weird and trivialising real abuse or online harassment (A thing you should definitely not do as a supposed « leftist »). What’s this bitch baby behaviour ? How are you gonna stand up to facists with a skin this thin ?

[@ActuallySatan]

The way he tried to equate his experience with Lindsey Ellis's was sickening.

[@stardust3176]

Remember, the fortress guys. We must stay focused, comrades. We must stay focused

[@stardust3176]

I didn’t take my own advice lol

[@krrr.4902]

@@stardust3176 Can't blame you, let's just think of it like throwing pebbles at a zombie from within the fortress walls.

[@seththeawesome3366]

I wonder if Noah will become a permanent hate orbiter or if he’ll just get the clicks for a few videos then move on

[@quedolapantera7623]

this seemed like a closure from vaush so there shouldn't be a reason for noah to make another video tbh the fortress gotta be strong

[@loupevl]

Praying for this on the altar of the faceless mother but alas this Noah fellow doesn’t seam bright

[@LizStaples]

@@quedolapantera7623 eh that implies there was a reason for him to make this video. In larger more mainstream YT we know that negative engagement can drive views (Trisha Paytas, Paul Brothers, and Gabbie Hanna) We just have to hope Noah doesn’t decide the only way to stay relevant is to keep making false claims about Vaush

[@quedolapantera7623]

@@LizStaples Vaush asked in his first response to noah for him to delete the video, i'd believe a response was granted. That wasn't the case in this video.

[@zotaninoron3548]

Imagine Noah "Squid Gangggggg" Samson saying he hasn't told people to brigade smaller content creators.

[@kesshikou]

this argument is so disingenuous its actually unreal. There's so much to attack Noah on that isn't this dumb af point. For your own sake, please just stfu.

[@atticusmatkin46]

Why does Noah say that the video isn't an attack on any of the creators mentioned but it is an attack on Vaush? Maybe I have a different perception of the word 'attack' but it does feel like Noah goats attacks on Vaush when a whole video is made specifically focusing on Vaush's behaviour criticizing it as racist, sexist, transphobic. That's an attack.

[@nzephier]

It is an attack video. But Noah was dishonest in his debate with vaush, why should we expect any honesty moving forward??

[@jo0rd73]

I appreciate how this is on the side channel to show how little worth drama like this is to the broader objective of actually affecting political change. Fortress stay strong.

[@delos2279]

Either Noah is intentionally lying or he's just really bad at researching for his video essays. Given how clueless he was when he came on the stream, I think it's the latter.

[@obliviondust2719]

Oh he's lying alright. His goal is to smear not truth

[@loupevl]

Eh, i just get overwhelming dumb vibes. Not very bright

[@greycoloris7665]

Its not just 'he's bad or stupid' tho. It's an ideology: The confluence of a superstructure with a material condition. Thinking this way just works for people like Noah, it has no consequences for them - however, introspection might have. So they avoid it like liberals do functional policy. That perspective allows for a more proper analysis of why a guy like Noah might do stupid or evil things and what the issue with our movement they represent is.

[@nicolaim4275]

I get the feeling that he decides what his video should include in detail and then only researches with that singular focus. I also get the feeling that he should have stuck with being an editor.

[@ticker0157]

Oh there's were you're wrong, it's actually both.

[@eelvis1674]

Not very fair framing from him, you did not: " offer him money to take the video down", you offered to cover the costs that would be to him considering the revenue he would have earned from it. Not even close to being the same thing

[@martins458]

It's literally all convenient framing.

[@r-pupz7032]

Yeah that was really slimy imo.

[@ngotemna8875]

Vaush explains this very difference directly after Noah stopped the clip of Vaush saying he would pay Noah.

[@beforethegate8461]

What? Why would vaush offer if he wasn't going to delete the video?

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@beforethegate8461 The point is that "offering him money to take it down" reads as a bribe. "Offering to compensate him for lost ad revenue as long as he retracts his misinformed video" reads as a good, charitable thing to do to avoid someone else's business being hurt by fixing a mistake. The fact that Noah presents it the first way is a form of calculated dishonesty, to make Vaush look like someone who would try to buy people's silence rather than someone who genuinely offered to make sure Noah himself wouldn't take a significant loss.

[@shimmerence]

i remember when Noah came on stream he spent like an hour beforehand in YT chat. kind of strikes me as the type not to cope well with people being mean to him online. it feels like there’s an overstatement of harm to the point where he isn’t even giving Contra or Kat enough credit for what they’re already used to dealing with. reminds me of a book contra referenced in one of her videos, “Conflict is not abuse”

[@chelsgo8675]

That was why I was so dumbfounded by Natalie during that whole thing. She should be the first person to understand what it's like to get dumped on for ironic spicy takes on twitter.

[@stardust3176]

To be completely honest, I really do hope Noah gets the brownie points he so desires. After all he has worked so hard for them.

[@stardust3176]

I’m sorry in advance

[@alvinanis3006]

As a brown person no brownies for the slime ball

[@kindadecent9754]

It’s very easy when you make videos against Vaush lol

[@LimeyLassen]

on his knees begging for a crumb of brownies

[@whereammy]

@@stardust3176 uh sweaty this is literally harassment

[@xariacat]

I disagree about this being any better, still pretty damn slimy all around (framing those very fair criticisms toward Contra as “harassment”), especially trying to pin a ubiquitous aspect of the internet on one person.

[@stardust3176]

From the screenshots it gave me the impression that to him and his community “harassment” = “disagrees with me” lmao.

[@guzkus1]

I mean he did receive harassment. Like, idk if you wanna deny someone's right to claim harassment....

[@EmilyDickmesome]

@@guzkus1 I was harrased by his moustache does that count?

[@alvinanis3006]

@@guzkus1 His proof of "harassment" in his video were just criticisms of his previous video

[@admiralpaco507]

To give the greatest possibly charity to Noah's perspective: Brigading is considered a form of harassment. That said, if Noah is going to use the term "harassment" to describe the treatment Contra received, maybe find some harsher tweets? And if none exist, maybe just call it brigading? Not everything has to be the worst thing possible. (Personally, I disagree with content creators directing their followers to brigade, no exceptions, but I know that's not a universal opinion.)

[@syddlinden8966]

I unsubbed from Noah specifically because of his defense of PF. If he's not going to concede that she is advocating for genocide, then he's not getting my sub or views back. Like the convo with her was the most frustrating 3 hrs of my life as she repeatedly said "I don't support genocide, I think they should have the choice to [LITERALLY DESCRIBES A FORM OF GENOCIDE]." And as a result it has been crazy hard to see more and more left-tubers i enjoy get behind her - because her views are legit harmful. :( Edit: as someone with an actually narcissistic parent, i'm so tired of folks saying vaush is a narcissist. I am VERY familiar with what that shit looks like and I don't get those vibe from vaush or I wouldn't be watching. If he was really a narcissist, he would NEVER admit to a bad take or a wrong ideology. EVER. Most narcissists don't change, they gaslight. They don't ground in finding the morally good or harm-reduction argument, it's they are right 1110% of the time. They will NEVER say they were wrong, and vaush frequently comes back after time to cool off and reflect and internalize things and DOES say he was wrong about one thing or another. And I think, as a fellow autistic person, a lot of what people read into as narcissism is how many autistics relate to the world, by relating our personal experiences or having a set script or set of logical rules we use to navigate interactions. I see this A LOT in recent disagreements vaush has had online and it fucking sucks to witness so much fucking NT abilist bullshit thrown out. I also think that very same abilism plays out in the online left just ignoring his bipolar Dx as if it would have zero effect on his mood or mental state when he is under stress. idk how vaush would feel about me saying as much, but i have certainly been worried about his wellbeing and mental health the last several weeks as clear stresses seemed to pull him toward what most have called "egotism." Certain statements worry me too, but I think writing it off as narcissism or being and egomaniac and ignoring literal processing differences and a Dx personality disorder is really fucking irresponsible of the online community at large.

[@Gloomdrake]

It makes it really difficult to criticize Vaush for his real problems when so many people have him on the defensive over made up bullshit all the time

[@mikeyahl7363]

There was a moment where I misheard "Video Essayists" as "SAS," which led me to a moment of imagining Vaush getting swatted by the British Special Forces 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@unitymomentum]

I think it's genuine arrogance that keeps him from understanding political communication is more difficult than he realizes. He has such a one-track mind.

[@Reticulated_Spline]

So, are we supposed to just not criticize some of PF's more extreme positions or other content creators because that that counts as harassment and bullying now? This feels like it is falling into what conservatives think of the left, that we're weak and sensitive.

[@LizStaples]

It might at this point be more expedient to ignore particularly bad takes. PF’s dragging old drama back out shows how creators will drama farm to stay relevant. We need to not fall in that trap and force these creators to find other ways to build their audiences.

[@sateleim]

not condoning PF but when exactly do we draw the line?

[@sypherthe297th2]

@@sateleim You don't draw a line. Bad takes should be criticized. Full stop. The moment you start giving into fascists, whether they're wokelets on Twitter or stocking up on gas, you're starting down a bad path.

[@DevinMacGregor]

@@sateleimThat reminds what Bill Maher recently said, "a comedian's job is to test boundaries." Ok, but if there are no actual boundaries then what exactly are they testing?

[@mckenzie.latham91]

I mean in the Heem debate she ahd after the one with Vaush she essentially admits that she views your status as a “colonizer” essentially by how white or light your skin color is... and she even said light skinned poc and lighter skinned people can be considered as colonizers because the whiter you're skin the more you benefit from racism and colonialism so she essentially says anyone whose not dark skinned can be designated a colonizer, in the Heem debate

[@AceTheWorrior]

Noah:"this video is to critique xan and Vaush" Noah:* continues to only critique Vaush*

[@timetaker7816]

Wait a second, he is not actually being honest about what he walked back, because he could not defend or substantiate any of the lies he told about xanderhal

[@Dilettante15]

Noah: "My video is poppin' off." Also Noah: "The video was a failure." Hmmm.

[@NekoLilli]

Does anyone else feel that because Vaush doesn't act like a victim, he doesn't back down, he doesn't delete tweets, the left act like he is always the villain?

[@JebeckyGranjola]

I think It's two things. First, (1) all those people are grifters that are cloat chasing. Then theres legit people who still do it, partially because they are in a bubble that overlaps the first group, like Kat and Contra here. This second group as has some overlap with more "common" people who are effected by thing (2.) Which is, 2. When Vaush started out he was less rhetorically proficient and did not balance the bad optics of his edginess. In particular when he was transphobic a lot of people wrote him off and never listened to another thing he said. This feeds into (1.) and when they see bad faith clips of Vaush, they believe it. This group also has a subgroup of people who just intellectually disagree with Vaush. These are people like Mexie, and people who in good faith have a division between video essays and "debate bros." Part of that is the things you're talking about. Vaush says he is not arrogant, hes confident that he's correct because he has put as much effort as possible into forming his opinions. That is true, but that's exactly what an arrogant person would say. I think he has a blindspot there, because he says anyone who doesn't accept that is masking insecurity, instead of just having a different concept of how to pursue intellectual engagement. It's kind of like the division between academics and entertainers, they just engage differently.

[@sasak369]

It's also because for all the talking online lefties do about diversity and inclusion, they actually hate autistic people for not doing an elaborate song and dance anytime they express a thought.

[@JebeckyGranjola]

@Sasa K I totally agree. Since you brought it up, I do think that is something people should keep in mind when communicating. I think some of it is Vaush's individual personality and some of it is the way being neuro atypical informs his process. I didn't want to bring that up because I'm not comfortable making any kind of assessment of what exact behavior aspects should be considered. I think it would be wrong to invite speculatation on that.

[@BiggCliph]

I love your channel! I always have it on! I think this is actually the first time I’ve commented on a video of yours. I’m on board with everything, except with what you said about sending your followers to publicly shame someone via telling them how they’re wrong. If it stopped there, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But I would never trust any online fanbase to not take it too far or not cross the line with their criticisms. People be crazy. Throw in a parasocial relationship and people be REAL crazy. Just want to see you flourish like you deserve!

[@PropheticShadeZ]

I understand your comment, but i watched the whole stream, and his emphasis was that he disagreed with contrapoints. And he made large efforts to reach out in private and repeatedly tried to calmly talk it out, but contra repeatedly publicly accused him. Context is really mitigating. Vaush said that after 2 hours of trying to reach out to a creator he liked and as a last resort asked for peoples help to convince her of the situation

[@theluchakabuto5206]

Vine Boom bass boosted fart sound guy is back 👀

[@nuntiuslibera]

All of this is so wild to me. Like, I got into your coverage of the 2020 election, and have kind of orbited around a lot of different sources of knowledge and entertainment since then, including a lot of the people who take issue with you. I've also expanded my knowledge and experiences and grown mentally and emotionally, you know...in, "real life." But I've always come back to your commentary and your discussions and seen conviction of character, honesty, and charitable interaction with all different people. So it just feels so odd to me to see you be painted with such different brushes and not interacted with in the same way...like the people using those brushes are all fashioning them strictly through their own biases and preconceived notions. I love the handful of conversations you've had with Jen from JENerational change because she's so sincere in her beliefs and I can relate to her optimism and her confusion at this sort of in-fighting that happens online. It often feels as inconsequential and destructive as like...work drama. Life is going on outside of this, as I know and as I'm sure you know. As people around the world know. I didn't know anything about Taiwanese struggle, about Palestinian struggle, about Ukrainian struggle, or even about people in otherwise, "not too oppressed," regions before I moved forward in my own journey. I am a trans woman (a very loud and annoying one in a small conservative township,) if that gives you any context in where I'm coming from. I feel like I might ramble too long to noone if I don't wrap this up, so yeah, thank you for your openness to all people, to being able to engage in different groups and communities while being consistent and straightforward with your axiomatic values. I don't need you to be a mouthpiece for who I am in order to respect what you do. Keep on keeping on.

[@NewscorpPhoneHackingDepartment]

[@michaelwerkov3438]

that last little bit is something i think all lefties and liberals need more of. noone will ever be a perfect mouthpiece for anyone else. and for the moments where vaush is too edgy or gets something wrong or is otherwise, shockingly, human... the breadth of actual real humans he tries to communicate with and things he talks about is already so far above and beyond what most people are capable and willing to do... in all but a scant handful of criticisms, these people are asking the impossible with no regard for the already exhausting amount of things he does do well

[@jizburg]

I understand what happened here. Step 1: Noah get contacted by a sponsor Step 2: Noah thinks about a subject that will give maximum engagement. Step 3: Noah gives upp and goes back to the drama farm and rehash old drama and plays it of as if its not a drama video.

[@BustDaNinja]

I watched the Samsen video before the live stream, so I already knew the contents. Vaush unironically starting the segment by trying to be a more responsible "community wrangler" as it were was good to see. Big guy has grown alot in the last couple of years, and it shows.