OLD VS NEW: Comparing ALL 19 New Citadel Shades

[@TheREALwymario]

Many others are going to point it out but it bears repeating: The move to 18ml pots is indefensible and a good reason to switch to another brand, or stock up on the old stuff before it's gone.

[@sweatilaa5325]

Army Painter washes here we go! The GW Nuln Oil and Agrax are 2 of the 3 GW paints I still use and buy regularly. Now only the black greenish Black Templar contrast will be the last GW paint in the collection. Standard GW, fixing thing that didn’t need fixing and ending up breaking them instead.

[@ysbrann3059]

i can understand that they wan t to use the same pot than contrast but.... reduce the price then ? Xd

[@sweatilaa5325]

​@StockrA CCFC do you mean those from their Model line? Hear mixed things about them, that they are pretty intense. But I'll probably pick one of those up and try. Have you tried them yourself? The AK stuff I hadn't heard about! I'll have to try that out for sure, really like their regular paints already so it would be great to have the "washing agent" as well. Thanks for the tip!

[@sweatilaa5325]

​@StockrA CCFC omg, just checked the AK terrain pots, such value! I've mostly been using sand and glue but it looks boring after a while. I've really wanted a good mud texture but GW is so expensive. Thank you so much! I've found that scale model builders and WWII builders to be a source of infinite knowledge of how to do things better and cheaper. Just something as simple as using Tamiya Airbrush Cleaner as plastic glue for a fraction of the cost compared to what they sell as plastic glue. Few people in the Warhammer community seem to know these thing, or share it at least. Also been considering learning how to use enamel products as well, some of them seem pretty sweet, like some AK washes or their Streaking Grime.

[@thehiddenheretic]

I bought 6 Nuln Oil and a bunch of others haha

[@Frosty4427]

The new ones seem more like super thinned contrast paints than actual washes. They look much thicker and gloopier. Definitely need some watering down in order to achieve the same kind of capillary action.

[@davedogge2280]

What would u think them down with ? distilled water with 5% flow improver ?

[@CruzRoman3211]

Love having these sweet and simple showcases that don’t waste your time or don’t show the results well enough to make a difference. Thanks Pete!

[@DeepWoodMegaFauna]

I’d love to see a showcase of all the available GW metallics

[@snowy5628]

I really like gw paints, but their metallics are worse than any other line I've tried except for army painter

[@Lomhow]

Leadbelcher is a workhorse. It does a lot of base coats for me. Some of GW's silvers and dark metals can be pretty good. But as soon as you go to a model shop you'll find plenty of really good metallics. But there are some really good options for noticeably cheaper. Army Painter, Tamiya and Vallejo metallics are insane. My top picks: Army Painter Gun Metal and Rough Iron Tamiya Gold Leaf and Flat Aluminum Vallejo Liquid Gold Enamel is a whole new amazing realm for metallics but that sh/t is too toxic for my lungs.

[@louwie616]

@@Lomhow how do you paint with the tamiya? When I use a brush the paint gunks up immediately.

[@inublades]

​@@louwie616I know this is an old comment but Tamiya paints are alcohol based so water won't thin them properly. Tamiya sells their own x-20 thinner to use with them.

[@mnotdavid]

Perhaps its lighting, but Seraphim Sepia also looks diff. It’s got a warmer brown tone vs a golden yellow.

[@cypherdras]

well that sucks, Seraphim is the one i use the most >.

[@Hypersapien_Hobbies]

Yeah I was disappointed with that

[@Mt-zr5bf]

The new Seraphim Sepia could be used for skin color, but i am disapointed too

[@azazelxxxx]

By all other comparison report videos (and watching this one) it's quite different. I don't know how Pete missed that one...

[@HurtPower]

Yeah I like the new one but the old one has uses too they almost look like they should be separate shades

[@stahly_taleofpainters]

Another great video mate! Got myself a box of these bases, too, they're great for paint experimenting :)

[@IspherAYT]

Just a heads-up, the "new medium" is actually Contrast Medium (had a discussion with GW people at WHW few weeks ago), replacing the Lahmian Medium in the old ones, which is where the viscosity comes from.

[@legiox217]

Is this real? Its contrast medium + pigmentation ? Interesting...thanks fren

[@kkouuy]

Given how they've maintain the price but decreased the bottle size, could you do a video exploring alternative washes/shades found in over paint brands that might offer better value? :)

[@johnoneill3654]

Yes please

[@jerryjezzaberry5009]

Honestly I've moved over to using vallejo washes for a while now, they have massive bottles and are quite strong so using a little bit with some flow improver makes great alternatives to nuln oil, seraphim sepia or aggrax earthshade.

[@ron4280]

Just switch to Vallejo for everything. Better range spread across the board.

[@youtousim]

@@ron4280 Model Color line has amazing coverage, consistency and finish. Perfect for base colors and edge highlights. And superior when Airbrushing, even compared to their Game Air series.

[@Gloomshimmer]

Pro Acryl washes are the best one in my opinion. but only 3 colors and Sold Out 99 percent of time for a reason

[@Nobleshield]

So the main benefit seems to be that there's less tide mark/pools? WHich if so would be a good thing. washes are one of the main things GW paints are actually better at than most others.

[@williammountfield8508]

Is it just me or is the seraphim sepia a really different colour between the new and old versions?

[@Mensch777]

Just the best kind of video to show these off. Also great detail that you used the same base layout for the comparisson! Very scientific :) EDIT: Targor Rageshade looks like a great one to use for metals!

[@Smilomaniac]

Excellent demonstration.

[@Remi-Toruzen]

Glad I have extra agrax and nuln though these would work for everything besides my current project of dirtying the imperial and chaos knights skeleton. Gonna get a couple and definitely the grey for sisters hair and the cherub wings myself as apothecary just doesn’t work. The price increase/size reduction is the exact same tactic companies use all over the place as an example paper towel and toilet paper. They will make the inner roll larger so there’s less paper and the average person never realizes.

[@imdeaded]

Panic buying !!!!

[@philiphamel8504]

That soulblight Grey would be fantastic for Harlequin masks

[@wakcedout]

Just recently used the new crimson shade for my blood angels, and not sure what they did but seems they’ve improved the shade formula. Actually goes for the recesses like advertised, and they dry faster.

[@nikot.9920]

Definitely a solid review. I'm very excited for Mortarion Grime

[@slyer0]

looks like I need to be hunting down drakhoff nightshade of the old model I use that shade rather a lot being an ultramrine painter mostly.

[@truthlesslouw]

Don't fix what's not broken. Nuln and agrax didn't need anything changed at all

[@Gloomshimmer]

they need less milliliters for Same price😅

[@shrike2598]

Are the new paint pots smaller than the old ones?

[@omnissiahGaspar]

The new paint pots are smaller than the old ones

[@artorias5737]

Yes the new shades are the same size as contrast

[@artorias5737]

@@omnissiahGaspar timing godlike

[@Happy-zg4zd]

@@artorias5737 im more worried about how he wrote his 16 minutes ago, while you both wrote it 6 before

[@artorias5737]

@@Happy-zg4zd embrace the dark gods of tzeench

[@Dazzxp]

I so like the soulblight grey that will go great when i paint my Battletech Comstar mechs.

[@oriffel]

heeeey thats why i'm here. well actually I'm doin some warships first. Have you managed to try it out yet?

[@meronyach.]

The fact that they’re charging more, for a seemingly less pigmented product, is pretty sad. On the bright side, this finally gave me the push to get into oil washes. No more need to rely on any GW product.

[@johnkelley9877]

This was a very helpful review! Thanks for making this.

[@ReverendPONT]

Nice video. I postponed my NL army painting until my new Contrast paints and shades come in the mail. Plan on using soulblight and the red colors for the bodies on my Rhinos, Dreadnoughts and the winged legion logos for more depth.

[@dominussharith9016]

Love the paint showcases. Thank you

[@christelford4788]

It seemed like you were going back to the pot more frequently with the new shades... Do you think you end up having to use more paint to achieve the same effect as the old shades? If so, this coupled with the 18ml change would make the new paints even more expensive...

[@shanetropman9804]

I had this exact same thought. It seems they don’t flow as freely off the brush, so I worry about wasting more paint. Coupled with the smaller pots isn’t great.

[@user-mc4sq3fk5d]

Very good comparison video!!

[@Spartan12]

I'm not sold on the new nuln oil, will have to give it a shot and see how it works over different colors to see if I can still get that darkened down effect, Glad it doesn't pool quite as easily, but we'll see how it works I suppose

[@PeteTheWargamer]

If you're looking for the darkened down effect, I'd recommend using some Black Templar contrast thinned with some medium.

[@l33tninj4studios]

I'm starting off a new Eldar for for Craftwolrd Alaitoc and a guide I found recommends Drakenhof Nightshade to deepen the blues in the recesses. Should I reconsider my shade color or just go ahead with the new Drakenhof for this?

[@lordhunterwolf]

am i the only one who thinks the old shades look so much better?

[@lordhunterwolf]

damnt it man i dont have cash for the old ones before they are out of stock >.>

[@lordhunterwolf]

@StockrA CCFC i know right >.

[@Kairu_Kilofski]

A good use for Soulblight grey is brushing it on thin onto the tops of bald heads or on their jaws to make it look like they have some stubble.

[@jacobrichards5141]

Think I'll be either stocking up on the old or switching to another range, smaller and watered down for the same price?!

[@thatgenericdixienormouspicguy]

They're great if you're just wanting a filter which is fine and useful for me, but I can see why it would erk some people being different hues. Glad I still have my old ones stockpiled though. I will say that the Army Painter's wash set is completely worth every penny and match up pretty well with the now old range.

[@mkulchar]

Would love to see an example you would use kroxk green on a ghoul to put them out quick.

[@FattyZee]

whats the finish like? parft of why i like Aggrax and Nuln so much is the matte finish they provide, but i know contrast tends to dry more glossy

[@martinchampion6467]

Thanks Seraphim Sepia also seemed to have a shift in tone?

[@CrussaderGrarl]

all the colours have different tones now and thats a problem or so it seems in the video

[@PeteTheWargamer]

The tone is fairly similar, at least enough to not really be noticeable if used over a model. The new one has more of a washed out look which makes the paint look more dissimilar than it actually is

[@TonyLarsson]

I sure hope it's not too big of a difference, I use that wash to paint the skin on my Tyranids.

[@ODonnchadhaBrian]

Great video. Just the right amount of information.

[@pete_the_bak]

In terms of other vids - uses of the new shades and contrast's in different situations would be great for ideas where they would be useful

[@nahhfam7678]

I'm pretty sure that they deliberately made the newer formulas less opaque and less thick so that the shade range doesn't pull sales from the contrast line as a viable alternative.

[@el6922]

Thaks for the video!! Its helpig me a lot! Will you make a video about Dry paints? :)

[@kiesarisunny13]

Isn’t it better that it doesn’t pool? I’m just getting into washes so I really haven’t worked with the older ones and only use it if I have to like how I make the skin on my Chaos HQs or any tentacles have a purple wash or how I darken the Chaos Warriors armour with Nuln Oil

[@somerset852]

Hi Pete, not sure if this kit bash has ever been suggested but how about Honsou! The iron warriors warsmith! Think it might be a cool conversion. Thanks

[@MightyMadFish]

In terms of the price hike, making your own shades on the cheap is super easy

[@MightyMadFish]

@StockrA CCFC oils are always a good choice, I find acrylic ink and some water with a tiny drop of dish soap does exactly the job of the GW washes. Then again some cheap art acrylics and water also work just as well aa the GW ones

[@waltsgans2464]

Many thanks for showing these examples. :o] Always appreciated! .:. Walts

[@arthwenlionheart912]

Seeing Drakenhoff being lighter is a bit of worry for my very dark blue nighthaunt army and Seraphim sepia looks a lot more brownish than it did before

[@jesseparsons9383]

Thanks for this! Super useful

[@ashleyculver5343]

The new Drakenhof looks like Payne's Grey artist colour

[@azazelxxxx]

I'd be interested in seeing a review of the AK Interactive 3rd gen paints.

[@tien65]

cheers so much for your advice on this.

[@ssvishnov]

When using a shade should you let the basecoat dry before applying or can you use the shade right away?

[@andrewcurtain1440]

You should let the basecoat dry fully before applying the shades.

[@aaronkenny2783]

Where did you get those bases

[@ryannusdbh7163]

What are good replacements for nuln oil and agrax earthshade?

[@aethelon4144]

You could probably try Army Painter's.

[@harrybeau3537]

This video was very usefull, thank u !

[@m-tron5966]

So we know how to apply two coats of the new nulin oil,To achieve the same effect as the old

[@cartouchator]

Seraphim sepia is now completely different. It has more red and brown tones to it, but dries much lighter and stains much less than the old one. This means that using it to stain Boyles and pustules on poxwalkers for example , the new seraphim sepia will not at all work for that anymore.

[@TheKingsPride]

Mortarion Grime looks like it'll be good for Deathwing Armor

[@benives254]

I trust you Pete. I love you Pete!

[@youtousim]

Is it just me and my latest pot of Agrax Earthshade, or does it have a somewhat glossy finish since its last (previous to this new one? Still in big pot) iteration instead of drying matte. And even contains some oily ingredient that never really dies / evaporates? Not having much fun with it lately. : (

[@wonderboy2402]

I think they made the change so it flows more into recessed but the gloss on it it killer now….

[@Valcadus]

What song was playing in the background?

[@Vrael7777]

Hey Pete, How would you go about converting and painting a Death Guard Marine in the style of Cleanrot Knights and Scarlet Rot from Elden Ring? It might be a suggestion for a video in the future... Cheers!

[@sweatilaa5325]

Smaller pots, same price, Nuln Oil and Agrax Earthshade doesn’t look the same. Time to do like General Grievous and abandon ship

[@Hannah11876]

KENOBIIIIII! Correctly Grievous would say "Games Workshop!!!!!"

[@shanetropman9804]

I’ve heard a few people say, and I tend to agree, that the older ‘shades’ are more of a ‘tint’ or ‘filter’ and the new ones are a more traditional ‘liner’. Which I can agree with. But we’ve all gotten used to the old ones, the change is going to be hard to adjust to.

[@DeanxPeaceMaker]

Does anyone know of any brands that have a black wash that works the same as the old nuln oil?

[@paulshannon3139]

So you get less in a pot and need to use double the amount for the same result as they used to be (assume 2 coats would do it). Think I'm going to look elsewhere for my washes.

[@LandofMert76]

Did they redo all of them? How many were there before?

[@Vin_Venture896]

Anyone else try scratching their screen at 0:45 thinking there was dirt on it? 😅

[@rangerminiaturesandgaming3647]

Very useful video, thank you.

[@Brother2314]

Definitely I will not swap my older shades with the new ones. I may be wrong, but it seems that the new ones are more diluted. Same/Similiar effect may be achieved mixing old shades with a medium. TBH, I almost in every case dilute shades 1:1 while painting, so that the paint does not pool over flat areas or in recesses too much. BTW - why are gloss shades to be withdrawn from the market?

[@BleachCowboy2016]

off topic but those are cool bases, anyone know who makes them?

[@PeteTheWargamer]

They're GWs Sector Mechanicus bases

[@GirlPainting]

Seraphim Sepia has also a totaly different tone.

[@TheAurgelmir]

Tyran Blue reminds me of the old Guilliman Blue Glaze.

[@spyrosvoytsinas697]

Would you consider doing some dornian heresy blood angels?

[@MrEyescream]

im a new painter and therefore my opinion is maybe not that popular, but i like the new formula more. Even with the "new ones" i have sometimes problems with stainings and i think with the old ones i would really mess up.

[@oneeyedwonderer6781]

old one looks better , this one just seems to be more thinned down tbh . it's basically just an ink heavily thinned down ...but you now get less in a bottle for the same price

[@meiken417]

I like adding water to my shades for glazing probably can't do that with the new

[@MrHarry5518]

what about the gloss variants? are they being remade or are they staying the same?

[@PeteTheWargamer]

As far as I can tell, they're being discontinued.

[@tayjaytesla1142]

The gloss variants are going away. This was in a tiny dot point at the end of the community article. Also going is the new cryptek armorshade

[@01oo011]

Seems like a mixed bag, some of the old ones look better and some of the new ones look better. -Did I miss it or is there no new Black Templar?-

[@HoveringHog]

Black Templar is a contrast, no? 🤔

[@jackbales7023]

It looks and feels like GW have tried to cut corners with cost on pigments and mediums, all of the re makes of the older shades look thinner and with less colour than their older posts

[@PeterD87]

Great comparison.

[@tombrand236]

I ordered the new shades and contrasts from GW and they still haven’t arrived yet?

[@PeteTheWargamer]

They're on 2 week pre-order, they won't be released until next weekend

[@tombrand236]

@@PeteTheWargamer Ah thanks mate

[@Black_Blow_Fly]

YEA BOI !!

[@AsheramK]

I think Mortarion Grime might do well with certain Tau mechs.

[@KuroSukotto]

why sucks is not being to get a hold of the old stuff to have uniformity when you expand your army

[@mrV69]

How do we know if we have an new or old shade?

[@PeteTheWargamer]

New shades aren't released yet, so everything you currently have is the old

[@mrV69]

And the old ones are bigger right?

[@omnissiahGaspar]

@@mrV69 The new shades come in smaller pots

[@YokaiLover699]

This video is great!

[@mattcappelli5822]

Thanks for this video. It’s nice GW added new wash tones and revamped old ones. The issue I have is that they dropped the quantity by several ml yet charge the same price. I think I’ll stick with Army Painters shades for the cost

[@imdeaded]

I still like the old ones better they where much more concentrated. I could always thin it down . New paints look as if they are less pigmented or more filler paint has been added . So im paying more for less of a product . Shades are more like a wash .

[@nicholassinnett2958]

It seems like the new shades are a lot more translucent than the reformulations of the old ones. I can't help but wonder if that's what they wanted to do with the reformulations, but they didn't want to mess with peoples' painting recipes too much, so they decided to compromise instead and keep a bit more of the surface staining.

[@deafnoisemarine6294]

>Lowers pigmentation >Reduces pot size Thanks GW

[@legiox217]

kek

[@electricimpulse7]

Thank the Emperor Casandora is consistent

[@gd1247]

Much prefer what seemed to be heavier pigmentation in the older ones. They can be thinned down after all. On top of there being less of it in a pot, it's all a bit... Though I will say the better flow/less pooling does seem good, the price hike is ridiculous

[@fulldrawpainting]

Man they have ruined my boys nuln and agrax 😔 it looks to me like you have to apply more than the old version but the paint pots are now smaller. May need to look at an alternative for my washes now.

[@evader110]

Dark Tone and Medium (I think this one) Tone from the army painter washes look very much like Nuln and Agrax

[@yasashii89]

I don't buy citadel paints at all anymore. Vallejo are both much cheaper and better quality.

[@alagass6466]

Where do all of you find this relaxing music lol

[@Andrew-se4tg]

Vellejo for me!👍

[@justinslife8898]

Ok soo I have shades with 2021year and 18ml but then I have a shade that's 2022year 12ml. Can any one shed some insight?

[@legiox217]

The newer and smaller bottle is the new formulation.

[@justinslife8898]

@legiox217 thanks, I'm aware that games workshop changed their original shade paint to smaller pots/new formulas during 2020/2021 I believe. The original came in 21ml pots and when they changed to the smaller pots with new formula, it was dropped in size from 21ml down to 18ml. Soo im still confused bc I own two agrax earthshade shades... one being 18ml with 2021 year stamped whereas my other agrax earthshade is a 12ml pot with 2022 year stamped. What gives??🤷🏻‍♂️ 😆

[@legiox217]

@@justinslife8898 Ah I missed the 12ml part! If I had to guess that sounds like maybe a botch got bottled accidentally in the wrong sized pot...but yeah I couldn't say for sure! But I think they did use to come in 12ml pots back in the day iirc, when all the paints had a standardized size. Interesting :D Did you ever contact them about it ? Would be curious to see what they would say. If its a bottling mistake, they technically owe you paint!

[@justinslife8898]

@legiox217 lol I haven't contacted them but reached out to Staley of Tale of Painters to see if he knows anything.

[@elrikbuzan7002]

what is this music?!

[@tjv2446]

The new ones seem to be designed for recess shading tbh.

[@jpspaintingstudios1032]

GW are very good at trying fix something of theirs that isn’t broken and then end up breaking it. The fact they are now in 18ml pots and not 24ml but going to be the same price is typical GW.

[@pokemonmandag2108]

To me it just looks like they thinned them all down to stretch the batch and get more profit for the same amount.....also slimming down bottle size! in some cases its ok paint-wise and other cases stuff is getting to thin

[@lonelyhunter990]

GW price hike? Noooo couldn’t be.

[@itsallpointless6501]

so all they did was make it more expensive then?

[@Tropicoboy]

I dont like the new shades for for the sole reason that i used the staining to add grim and darken models so now my newer painted stuff wont look the same